PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: sunteam_paul on September 15, 2005, 04:40:59 AM
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I've just set up a feedburner account for a forthcoming regular podcast I'm doing. It's called PC Engine City and covers CD and chip music.
I wanted to post the link here first so I can make sure everything is working OK with the RSS feed before I slap it on my website and other forums.
The first episode is done and the address is: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PCEngineCity
Please go take a look, a listen and give me some (kind) feedback :wink:
If you can subscribe (if you have a reader) rather than just download the mp3 straight then that would be appreciated.
I've submitted it to itunes as well but that may take a little while before it's active there.
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This is exactly what I've been hoping for: HuCard and CD music, plus some intro / background narrative to put things in context.
I'm only 20 minutes into the episode, so here's some preliminary feedback:
* love the music format. HuCard tunes get overlooked in general, so this is sure to raise awareness... plus, it's nice to have variety in the sound and I like CD <-> HuCard <-> CD transitions.
* your voice is nice and clear. your presentation is spot-on: you set up each track in a timely fashion, but you don't rush it. Your commentary is interesting, mixing game info with your personal feelings. Overall: Excellent.
I'm up to Dynastic Hero track in program...
My suggestions:
1. This reveals my HuCard bias: Allow HuCard tunes to play a bit longer before fading out. I know, I know, the songs are shorter and repeat, but I'd like to hear them a bit more. Alternatively, stick in an extra HuCard tune (or two).
That's it!
The show is ending now :)
By the way, I love SLAY radio. I've been listening to it for the past few months I never seem to get sick of the playlists. A few tunes annoy me (the backstreet boys parody).... still, whenever I work on the computer I listen to that or "Nectarine demoscene radio" (another great station).
p.s. i used quicktime to listen to ypur show in a browser... i've yet to get hip to podcasts...
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Thanks for the feedback :D
Usually with HuCard tunes I let them play twice over before stopping them. That's just how I always record them for myself so that's what I'm used to. Shorter tunes I may play three times in future then but I want to be careful that they don't get repetitive.
I'll try to put more chip music in future shows, although they are harder to record off and not as readily available if the game has no sound test.
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I love it so far! I agree with Steve's comments but I don't care what you do as long as it stays like this! However listening to this brings me to a question; have you ever thought about making a TV series like PC Engine FX (http://pcenginefx.com/main/pcenginefx_com_-_pcenginefxtv.html) or Retrocore (http://www.segagagadomain.com/retrocore.htm) ? I love these two online TV shows that deal with classic games (especially whenever PCE is involved), but they are pretty limited (Retrocore doesn't specialize on PCE games, but just classic games in general, more towards the Sega side). I actually wouldn't mind making one myself, but I don't have the equipment to do so. Keep up the great work for PC Engine City and you can count on me for being a common listener!
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Just listened through the whole thing now and I must thank you for playing the "See You Again" track from the PCE version of Ys! It's one of my all-time favorite Ys songs and VGM tracks in general! Also I really liked the humerous bits that were in there every now and then like the yell sound effect when describing how hard Ninja Gaiden is, the "I'll Be Back" voice from Soldier Blade, and the funny voice at the end for your site. Superbly made, Paul!
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Thanks for the feedback :D
Usually with HuCard tunes I let them play twice over before stopping them. That's just how I always record them for myself so that's what I'm used to. Shorter tunes I may play three times in future then but I want to be careful that they don't get repetitive.
I'll try to put more chip music in future shows, although they are harder to record off and not as readily available if the game has no sound test.
I know about the trouble with recording HuCards... in fact, I'd love for you to share any tips you have (types of software, sound card, do you clean up the sound, etc.).
Here's an old post I made concerning this:
http://pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=629
Also, if I didn't make it clear enough in my earlier post:
I LOVED YOUR SHOW! :D
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Awesome! I would like to hear the song from the third stage/level in Dragon's Curse. Now that song is awesome too.
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I know about the trouble with recording HuCards... in fact, I'd love for you to share any tips you have (types of software, sound card, do you clean up the sound, etc.).
Here's an old post I made concerning this:
http://pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=629
Also, if I didn't make it clear enough in my earlier post:
I LOVED YOUR SHOW! :D
Yeah the chip sound has been a thorn in my side for some time now.
Recording from a 'proper' PC Engine is no good to me as it gives too much hiss and buzz and is just too much of a pain in the butt. Besides, the emulated sound on Magic Engine is 99-100% perfect on most games (not all) and I'm not so much of a purist that to demand the real thing is essential.
I have tried running Macic Engine and a sound capture utility at the same time on the same PC (P4 2Ghz) but I have found the emulation slows down very slightly now and again during the recording. Most people probably wouldn't notice, but it bugs the hell out of me.
So the current solution I have is this.
2 x PCs + 1 very long audio cable running from headphone jack to line-in = Magicsofts Sound Capture (free util that captures in mp3 format).
I recorded quite a few tracks before I found that it wasn't recording in Stereo properly (thanks to Bloody Wolf for highlighting this - lots of stereo in that game) but managed to suss it out by plugging it into a different hole.
Now all I have to do is set the capture off, run into another room and set the game off, then wait until I think it's finished before stopping it (no playthrough so I can't hear anything). Seems to be working so far.
Oh and I'm adding an extra chip tune in show 2 now, thanks to your feedback :)
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I know about the trouble with recording HuCards... in fact, I'd love for you to share any tips you have (types of software, sound card, do you clean up the sound, etc.).
Here's an old post I made concerning this:
http://pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=629
Also, if I didn't make it clear enough in my earlier post:
I LOVED YOUR SHOW! :D
Yeah the chip sound has been a thorn in my side for some time now.
Recording from a 'proper' PC Engine is no good to me as it gives too much hiss and buzz and is just too much of a pain in the butt. Besides, the emulated sound on Magic Engine is 99-100% perfect on most games (not all) and I'm not so much of a purist that to demand the real thing is essential.
I have tried running Macic Engine and a sound capture utility at the same time on the same PC (P4 2Ghz) but I have found the emulation slows down very slightly now and again during the recording. Most people probably wouldn't notice, but it bugs the hell out of me.
So the current solution I have is this.
2 x PCs + 1 very long audio cable running from headphone jack to line-in = Magicsofts Sound Capture (free util that captures in mp3 format).
I recorded quite a few tracks before I found that it wasn't recording in Stereo properly (thanks to Bloody Wolf for highlighting this - lots of stereo in that game) but managed to suss it out by plugging it into a different hole.
Now all I have to do is set the capture off, run into another room and set the game off, then wait until I think it's finished before stopping it (no playthrough so I can't hear anything). Seems to be working so far.
Oh and I'm adding an extra chip tune in show 2 now, thanks to your feedback :)
DUDE! Thank you so much for this info! It never occurred to me to use two computers (ME + sound capture on the same PC was producing really lackluster results... granted, I have an ancient PC)! As my old post indicated, I had been recording the analog signal from a real PCE and while I was happy, it wasn't as clean as I hoped it would be. It worked for audio cassettes in my car, but it would sound like AM radio when I made an mp3.
I'll have to take your word that ME's emulated sound is so accurate, because I'm the type of person that will opt for noisy analog recordings from a real system instead of cleaner emulated sound.
BUT NO MORE. I'm going to try your method and I think I'll be quite happy.
Do you have nice sound cards in your PC's? I have absolute junk, so that may be another obstacle I'm facing.
I recorded quite a few tracks before I found that it wasn't recording in Stereo properly (thanks to Bloody Wolf for highlighting this - lots of stereo in that game) but managed to suss it out by plugging it into a different hole.
Could you elaborate on this, please :)? You're referring to the audio in / audio out on your two PC's correct? My guess is that you might have initially plugged *computer 1 audio out* to *computer 2 microphone in*?
Thanks in advance!
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I've run ME on ageing PCs with crappy soundcards and it seems to sound OK to me so I doubt you'll have a problem there. Make sure you use the newest verson of MC though as it clears up a few existing issues.
Yeah, I think it must have been the microphone in I plugged it into. It's hard enough to get back behind my PC so it's nigh on impossible to see what the plugs are without guessing.
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Really good quality!!!!
Now I have Pc Engine music on my Athlon 64 super gaming comp without the need to fire up Magic Engine!!!!! You guys are just making it easier and easier to not play the stuff anymore after I sold it all on ebay.
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Hey, Paul did you read this part of my post?:
...However listening to this brings me to a question; have you ever thought about making a TV series like PC Engine FX or Retrocore ? I love these two online TV shows that deal with classic games (especially whenever PCE is involved), but they are pretty limited (Retrocore doesn't specialize on PCE games, but just classic games in general, more towards the Sega side). I actually wouldn't mind making one myself, but I don't have the equipment to do so.
I'm just curious if you have ever considered doing this :) .
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Hey, Paul did you read this part of my post?:
...However listening to this brings me to a question; have you ever thought about making a TV series like PC Engine FX or Retrocore ? I love these two online TV shows that deal with classic games (especially whenever PCE is involved), but they are pretty limited (Retrocore doesn't specialize on PCE games, but just classic games in general, more towards the Sega side). I actually wouldn't mind making one myself, but I don't have the equipment to do so.
I'm just curious if you have ever considered doing this :) .
I've not seen either and not really thought about anything like that. Maybe if I win the lottery and find myself with a lot of spare time then I'll think about it :)
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Hehe, well check both of them out sometime; they're excellent. And then after you watch them, think about it ;) . I know it's early, but is there any chance of having any info for around when the next PC Engine City episode will be released? :D
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Hehe, well check both of them out sometime; they're excellent. And then after you watch them, think about it ;) . I know it's early, but is there any chance of having any info for around when the next PC Engine City episode will be released? :D
Well once this one is 'officially' out then probably every 3-4 weeks. I could easily finish off about 3 more episodes within a week but I have to step the release times or else I'll burn myself out and it'll be all over. After all, I have a gaming addiction to feed too.
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Excellent, that would work out lovely so it would give me time to do other things as well and it builds up anticipation for the next episode. I hope to someday hear an episode where a Turbo star cameo appearence comes in like Bonk and Guy Kazama on PC Engine FX radio - that was hilarious.
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Besides, the emulated sound on Magic Engine is 99-100% perfect on most games (not all)
Depends on what version you're talking about :)
The sound core of Magic Engine 1.0 PR9 and onwards is around 90% perfect, which is not bad compared to all the previous versions (0.99 and early 1.0) which were more around 50%. The noise emulation was particularly flawed, and the logarythmic volumes tables were not even implemented, resulting in a very flat response of the sound.
Since PR9, we worked hard with David to completely overhaul the sound emulation of Magic Engine. It's still not perfect but I think we reached a good compromise, at least good enough to favorably compare with a real system. Yet if you seek a near perfect sound emulation, I suggest you give a try to PC2E.
http://mapage.noos.fr/kaminari/tmp/Ziria2_ME.mp3
http://mapage.noos.fr/kaminari/tmp/Ziria2_ME2.mp3
http://mapage.noos.fr/kaminari/tmp/Ziria2_Duo.mp3
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Besides, the emulated sound on Magic Engine is 99-100% perfect on most games (not all)
Depends on what version you're talking about :)
The sound core of Magic Engine 1.0 PR9 and onwards is around 90% perfect, which is not bad compared to all the previous versions (0.99 and early 1.0) which were more around 50%. The noise emulation was particularly flawed, and the logarythmic volumes tables were not even implemented, resulting in a very flat response of the sound.
Since PR9, we worked hard with David to completely overhaul the sound emulation of Magic Engine. It's still not perfect but I think we reached a good compromise, at least good enough to favorably compare with a real system. Yet if you seek a near perfect sound emulation, I suggest you give a try to PC2E.
Magic Engine 1.0 PR8 (http://mapage.noos.fr/kaminari/tmp/Ziria2_ME.mp3)
Magic Engine 1.0 PR9 (http://mapage.noos.fr/kaminari/tmp/Ziria2_ME2.mp3)
Duo-R (http://mapage.noos.fr/kaminari/tmp/Ziria2_Duo.mp3)
As always, excellent post :). Thanks Kaminari.
I've been capturing the analog signal from an actual PCE because I was unsure how accurate emulated sound was. The mp3's you provided deftly illustrate your point about ME's emulated sound. Bravo!
I'll have to experiment further before I decide what to do for my future recordings. I'm a dinosaur, so I'm leaning towards the old-skool, low-tech method (capturing sound from a console).
*So here's the million-dollar question, Kaminari: how did you capture the PSG from your DUO? Any and all details will be greatly appreciated (i.e. sound card, software, PC specs, etc.).
Any recommendations / insights you'd like to share would be icing on the cake. I've had "buzzing" in my recordings, perhaps this is inherent in the PSG, or perhaps I have some intereference that I can reduce / eliminate.
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My pleasure Steve :)
The distorsion you get might be due to the input line you're using. Some sound cards and notebooks don't have a specific line-in jack (light blue) and only offer a mic-in entry (pink), which is absolutely not suited for capturing any other sound source than a monaural micro.
My sound card is a good old SB Live! Value (Player 1024). It has a line-in plug which I use for various external sources, including my Roland CM-500 and my Duo-R. I'm a bit spoiled because my console is a RGB-modified one with a SCART cable and separate Cinch outputs; I capture the sound (whether it's PSG or CD) through a Y cable (Cinch to Jack 3.5) plugged into my line-in. But you can probably do the same with a standard Duo via the headset output.
The only problem is that the Creative sound cards have a weak line-in; what I mean is that the sound level is usually not amplified, and you have to boost it afterwards with Audacity or any other sound editing program to get a decent volume.
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My pleasure Steve :)
The distorsion you get might be due to the input line you're using. Some sound cards and notebooks don't have a specific line-in jack (light blue) and only offer a mic-in entry (pink), which is absolutely not suited for capturing any other sound source than a monaural micro.
My sound card is a good old SB Live! Value (Player 1024). It has a line-in plug which I use for various external sources, including my Roland CM-500 and my Duo-R. I'm a bit spoiled because my console is a RGB-modified one with a SCART cable and separate Cinch outputs; I capture the sound (whether it's PSG or CD) through a Y cable (Cinch to Jack 3.5) plugged into my line-in. But you can probably do the same with a standard Duo via the headset output.
The only problem is that the Creative sound cards have a weak line-in; what I mean is that the sound level is usually not amplified, and you have to boost it afterwards with Audacity or any other sound editing program to get a decent volume.
thanks. Oh, I know about mic-in vs. line-in from past follies (i.e. attempting to record a CD onto an audio tape with a "boombox" back in the 80's :) The boombox lacked proper line-in jacks).
My current setup:
PCE coregrafx II + standard issue A/V cables --> RCA to 1/8" mini-plug convertors --> line-in on my old PC. My old PC has a soundblaster sound card, i believe, but perhaps I should test things out to see if anything records nicely on my PC (perhaps its the PC itself).
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The only problem is that the Creative sound cards have a weak line-in; what I mean is that the sound level is usually not amplified, and you have to boost it afterwards with Audacity or any other sound editing program to get a decent volume.
Line-in circuits are supposed to be unamplified...a line-in is intended to accept a raw signal. :D What you do with it after that is up to you...Creative has the right idea. :)
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Hmm, that's not exactly what I meant ^^
Creative cards have a despised feature called ARL (Automatic Recording Level) which forcefully reduces the volume level of anything you record via the line-in jack in order to prevent clipping. The downside is that the sound is much weakier than it really is, and eventually you have to boost it manually in any sound editor -- which kind of makes this "enhanced" feature moot at best.
There has been much talk at Quest Studios about how to disable it, and we found no satisfactory solution.
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The way I capture music is by simply running Magice Engine, use the sound ROM for your game of choice, and capture it a program called Audacity. Initially it will be mono, but you can easily re encode it with the same program to make it stereo.