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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Necromancer on August 05, 2011, 10:34:57 AM
Title: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 05, 2011, 10:34:57 AM
I'm thinking about having some booties made and selling 'em for just enough to cover expenses*. When (if) enough are sold, I'll do another game on the list; lather, rinse, repeat 'til we run out of games worth the effort. Are any of y'all interested in such an endeavor and if so which game to get the ball rolling?
The above US titles were chosen for being among the priciest and hardest to find (Dungeon Explorer II, Beyond Shadowgate, and Bonk 3 CD were also considered but omitted for not being quite as difficult to get), and the two PCE games were chosen for not being available at all in a pressed disc (in English for M.T.). I'm open to suggestions though if these don't get yer motors running. Personally, I'd love to have pressed copies of the translated RPGs, such as Xak III, Ys IV, and Dead of the Brain when it's completed, but I think the above games are a better starting point.
* - It's about $1000 for 500 copies with jewel case, color tray insert and eight page manual; cheaper packages could be considered, but this seems to me to be the sweet spot. Considering the size of the Turbo community and how few copies of the homebrew games were sold, I'd probably have to sell them at $4 or so to break even; but if the response is greater than I'm expecting, I'll reduce the price accordingly or give a discount on the next booty. In short - I'm not looking to profit anything other than a few more fun games to play, but neither am I looking to 'invest' $700 on a few hundred copies that'll sit on the shelf unloved for all eternity.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 05, 2011, 10:54:16 AM
I'd love a proper looking Space Fantasy Zone with manual. I'd buy $50 worth if it was done right. I'm not interested in bootleg Turbo CD games though. Magic Chase bootleg would be neat, even though I don't need one.
If you're going to do a Turbo CD bootleg, Dynadtic Hero should be first. Just make sure that the insert, manual and disc all have markings stating that their not originals. I'd avoid words like "reprint", since some of these are going to end up being resold at premium prices, no matter how you distribute them. Remember what people were bidding on Space Fantasy Zone for at first?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: blueraven on August 05, 2011, 10:58:24 AM
Space Fantasy Zone, because i've heard that it has a glitch in the ending that only lets you complete it on emu or something; I think if that were fixed/pressed it would be pretty cool. So thats what I voted for.
I second the idea of pressing the JRPG's that have been translated. Excellent idea.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 05, 2011, 10:59:46 AM
My vote was for Motteke Tomago, by the way. It's such a cute little game and I'm a sucker for multiplayers.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 05, 2011, 11:05:54 AM
I second the idea of pressing the JRPG's that have been translated. Excellent idea.
I'd gladly pay $100 for a single copy with fully translated manual of games like Ys IV and LoXII.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: chany60126 on August 05, 2011, 11:08:43 AM
My vote also goes for Motteke Tomago because it's a neat looking game where up to 4 people can play. It would be perfect for turbob fests. :) Space Fantasy Zone would also be bad ass. That would be my second place vote.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mishran on August 05, 2011, 11:16:12 AM
I'd like Space Fantasy Zone as a first. Like Black Tiger mentioned, make sure everything has that it isn't an official release printed on it. Perhaps even the game's title screen. Anything to prevent a$$holes from trying to sell them as originals. If they had everything the originals had, including manual, I'd be happy to toss $10 a piece for them your way. I think this is a great idea, making the harder to get titles easier for everyone to obtain.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 05, 2011, 11:37:40 AM
Stuff like Space Fantasy Zone and translated games would be obvious boots since there never was such a thing to begin with, but anything that straight up copies the original will have some sort of changes to make it clear that they're not originals.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Keith Courage on August 05, 2011, 11:54:45 AM
Yes, that sounds awesome. Especially for all those US releases that typically sell for over $100 Like Dynastic Hero, Beyond Shadow gate, Might and Magic III, Bonk 3, Dungeon explorer II etc... I am not willing to pay that much for those games so I will probably never own them. I also 2nd the translated games. YSIV english rocks my socks!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 05, 2011, 11:58:35 AM
I have no interest in any of these games. I'm not against it at all, I just don't care about these games. Super Air Zonk easily being the least appealing. Are fake US copies of games worth more than legit JP ones, even to neuvo hardcore eBay retards?
I think stuff like Ys IV is a much better idea. It's a better game than any of the ones listed and it's totally unavailibe legitimately anywhere in English.
A Magical Chase made with a mask ROM...I'd buy that for a dollar, probably $50 even. Stuff on CD...I mean, I can just burn a fake one myself, of any CD, and play it whenever. I also place no value in fake manuals.
BTW, you better watermark the living shit out of these things even if they are fan translations with no legit version. Someone paid like...$1000 or somethig for a CDR copy of Space Fantasy Zone that one time, remember? It's hard to imagine someone being hardcore enough to even know what SFZ is but not know it's fake, but these people do exist.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 05, 2011, 12:41:45 PM
I'd be interested in Space Fantasy Zone and translated JRPGs. I can understand if other people want MMIII, Beyond Shadowgate, and Dynastic Hero because they're crazy expensive, the import versions present a language barrier (or don't exist), and it's nice to play stuff on real hardware.
Manuals pose a problem and should be minimized. Inserts larger than eight pages become really expensive and reprinting the MMIII manual would be particularly challenging. Likewise, translating JP manuals would completely change the format and it's not like the originals are expensive anyway. Sparky-style inserts are cheap, effective placeholders and impossible to confuse with originals.
edit: while you're at it, convince Mindrec to reprint Meteor Blaster on a real disc so I can actually play it without jamming my lens!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: chany60126 on August 05, 2011, 01:09:35 PM
Personally, I would not want any boots of US games. At some point down the line, I would like to have a complete US set of games. I am just afraid that it would be hard to distinguish the real game from a fake when buying online. Which is the case with Sapphire.
On another note, I think another possibility for a pressed CD would be the Super Hu Card CD (I think that's how it's called). I don't know the link where you can download it, but BlueBMW brought his to the VGS last month and it had a bunch of turbo and pc engine hu card roms that ran perfectly on a Turbo Duo. It had a nice selection of games and would be perfect for those who don't want to pony up the cash to buy a certain game or just try it before buying it.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nectarsis on August 05, 2011, 01:26:18 PM
Not sure why no mentioned it but plaster some F%#** Ebay logo's on it and there should be zero confusion. ;)
I am MOST def interested in this.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on August 05, 2011, 01:31:46 PM
Depending on price I'd buy any of those, especially the US titles as I need all of them and they'd do fine as placeholders until I can afford the real things.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 05, 2011, 02:45:55 PM
it needs to happen. im not going to tell you to do (X) game as my interest would be games i dont know. just print "NOT AN ORIGINAL" on the disk to differentiate them. translations would be great.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 05, 2011, 04:13:30 PM
I agree with Ys IV with the English patch being the best possible choice. With that said, of the choices listed I chose Motteke Tomago.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: GohanX on August 05, 2011, 04:19:28 PM
I also like the Ys IV translated idea, but out of the list I think I'd enjoy Dynastic Hero the most. That being said, for $4ish a pop, I'll buy anything you make!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on August 05, 2011, 05:51:24 PM
I am all for it Necro! I vote for Ys IV as well, and if someone wants to subtitle Dracula X, then let Necro package it I'd definitely throw my hard earned clams at that.
The "watermark" on a title screen idea along with the physical marks sound like a very good idea.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on August 05, 2011, 06:35:59 PM
Voted Motteke! When it comes to US games, you should have commercials that come up during the game every 5 minutes advertising dubious wares from around the globe :D Seriously though, Jp RPG's in english would rock, no doubt. Also, this is a direction I'm thinking of going with a project Black Tiger & I are mainly working on. Any kind of remakes etc. could be done this way, so nobody profits, but everybody gets a hard copy of games with manuals, etc. I'll be interested in how this all works out for sure!
I am all for it Necro! I vote for Ys IV as well, and if someone wants to subtitle Dracula X, then let Necro package it I'd definitely throw my hard earned clams at that.
The "watermark" on a title screen idea along with the physical marks sound like a very good idea.
Drac X has already been translated(text), we would just need someone to insert new audio tracks(both redbook, & adpcm). We could easily use all the audio from the PSP version, however, the hacking......
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on August 05, 2011, 06:45:16 PM
I am all for it Necro! I vote for Ys IV as well, and if someone wants to subtitle Dracula X, then let Necro package it I'd definitely throw my hard earned clams at that.
The "watermark" on a title screen idea along with the physical marks sound like a very good idea.
Drac X has already been translated(text), we would just need someone to insert new audio tracks(both redbook, & adpcm). We could easily use all the audio from the PSP version, however, the hacking......
Why would the audio have to be change from the original?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 05, 2011, 07:40:13 PM
true. the intro of drac X sounds like German not Japanese, its the subs that should be translated
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: bartre on August 05, 2011, 10:16:01 PM
i'd be in for anything at $5-10, but personally, i'd like for the front cover of the game to be not marked as heavily
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: TheClash603 on August 06, 2011, 12:51:39 AM
I got $30 for however many Space Fantasy Zones that will get me.
I do agree with Zeta, doing a US game which has a far cheaper JP release and does not have text, Super Air Zonk-like, doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Sparky on August 06, 2011, 01:18:50 AM
nice.. & i am down with those pce games man.
Also for those US titles, if you just want to do 2 page inserts i would be happy to supply you artwork of what i did to the project... or be of assistance on other print options.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 06, 2011, 01:23:30 AM
Why would the audio have to be change from the original?
Konami did an English dub of it on the PSP release so the entire game would be in English, if there were a way to pull the ROM image off the PSP one (since the PSP version is essentially a ROM on an emulator) it could make this a crapload easier.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 06, 2011, 02:51:51 AM
Why would the audio have to be change from the original?
Konami did an English dub of it on the PSP release so the entire game would be in English, if there were a way to pull the ROM image off the PSP one (since the PSP version is essentially a ROM on an emulator) it could make this a crapload easier.
Plus the bonus underwear. :wink:
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Lilgrafx on August 06, 2011, 07:46:22 AM
Has anyone tried to make a bootleg hucard? I'd buy all those games but I only have a Turbo Grafx with out a CD unit.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thrush on August 06, 2011, 09:00:41 AM
All of those listed are great ideas, but I like the idea of the translated JRPGs the best. I'd also love to see Dracula X, and would definitely buy Motteke Tomago as well. ^^b
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: pceslayer on August 06, 2011, 12:36:28 PM
I'll bite on translated games and unreleased.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 06, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
Why would the audio have to be change from the original?
Konami did an English dub of it on the PSP release so the entire game would be in English, if there were a way to pull the ROM image off the PSP one (since the PSP version is essentially a ROM on an emulator) it could make this a crapload easier.
You could just play the game through and record the sound from the PSP's headphone jack. Then trim the file to size with the help of Turborip. Easy as hell, really.
I can't give two shits about translating Drac X though. I has more text in the closing credits than it does in the entire rest of the game, and the credits are already English. The spoken word is...what, 5 minutes, if that? Its a nearly non-lingual game and a legit copy is barely more expensive than a new PS3 game.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 07, 2011, 12:46:46 AM
You could just play the game through and record the sound from the PSP's headphone jack. Then trim the file to size with the help of Turborip. Easy as hell, really.
I can't give two shits about translating Drac X though. I has more text in the closing credits than it does in the entire rest of the game, and the credits are already English. The spoken word is...what, 5 minutes, if that? Its a nearly non-lingual game and a legit copy is barely more expensive than a new PS3 game.
No argument here, I think it's the single most common game registered on PCEdaisukaisen. It requires very little English and the PSP English release can be found for around 10-20.00 max if anyone really wanted to find it.
I'd much rather see Ys IV glass mastered.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mishran on August 07, 2011, 04:34:02 AM
Ys IV would be a good one, but it needs english voice acting done first. Without, it just doesn't seem worth it in my opinion. Perhaps the community here could make that a reality? We have seen it possible with MSR... why not Ys IV?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on August 07, 2011, 04:39:44 AM
You could just play the game through and record the sound from the PSP's headphone jack. Then trim the file to size with the help of Turborip. Easy as hell, really.
I can't give two shits about translating Drac X though. I has more text in the closing credits than it does in the entire rest of the game, and the credits are already English. The spoken word is...what, 5 minutes, if that? Its a nearly non-lingual game and a legit copy is barely more expensive than a new PS3 game.
No argument here, I think it's the single most common game registered on PCEdaisukaisen. It requires very little English and the PSP English release can be found for around 10-20.00 max if anyone really wanted to find it.
I'd much rather see Ys IV glass mastered.
I'd rather see Ys IV as well. However, It's been a dream of mine since I got Drac X a few years back to know what the hell they are saying.
I don't have a PSP either.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Otaking on August 07, 2011, 04:53:37 AM
Ys IV would be a good one, but it needs english voice acting done first. Without, it just doesn't seem worth it in my opinion. Perhaps the community here could make that a reality? We have seen it possible with MSR... why not Ys IV?
I haven't looked into it but I while back I vaguely remember reading that the guys who did the first Ys IV patch were working on updating the patch with english voice acting.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 07, 2011, 05:33:25 AM
I haven't looked into it but I while back I vaguely remember reading that the guys who did the first Ys IV patch were working on updating the patch with english voice acting.
They eventually decided not to go forward with dubbing it.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 07, 2011, 05:34:49 AM
I thought the Ys IV dubbing project had been dumped but then picked back up again by someone else. Was it then dumped again?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 07, 2011, 05:40:22 AM
I thought the Ys IV dubbing project had been dumped but then picked back up again by someone else. Was it then dumped again?
I was unaware of anyone else picking it up.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SamIAm on August 07, 2011, 05:53:51 AM
I may be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that basically all the recording had been completed by one group, and the only thing left to do was the mixing and mastering.
The LoX:II dub is basically done, by the way. I'm going to get a couple lines redone here and there, but otherwise, it's essentially complete.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on August 07, 2011, 06:56:07 AM
I could be wrong, but I haven't heard anything about it lately, so I assume Ys 4 was dumped again.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: TGX16 on August 07, 2011, 07:16:24 AM
I voted for Space fantasy zone! But any translated jp game would be great.. I've tried to patch some but allways seem to do something wrong because it never works. As for the US games well some of the more "ebay-expensive" ones would also be great. but more intressed in the translated jp-games!!!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 07, 2011, 07:41:24 AM
Something that isn't available at all in published form is much more worthwhile than a straight reprint.
Sapphire still isn't that cheap and available and bootlegs still sell for as much as or more than the original Turbo versions of some of the titles in the poll (and even real copies of Sapphire), which means that it would still be more worthwhile to bootleg it than those games.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 07, 2011, 01:14:02 PM
Sapphire still isn't that cheap and available and bootlegs still sell for as much as or more than the original Turbo versions of some of the titles in the poll (and even real copies of Sapphire), which means that it would still be more worthwhile to bootleg it than those games.
Except we all have copies. Anyone who doesn't can ask nice and get one. Maybe we don't all have packaged bootlegs, but resources are better spent making new glass-mastered discs to help gamers play more rare games on real hardware than making extra facsimiles for half-assed collectors too lazy to either print their missing packaging or buy the real thing.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Otaking on August 07, 2011, 01:20:18 PM
I think the Space Fantasy Zone print by Anime4Ever is really decent, I personally don't think it warrants an improved version.
edit: the version I'm talking about is this one: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5143.0
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nectarsis on August 07, 2011, 01:32:06 PM
Sapphire still isn't that cheap and available and bootlegs still sell for as much as or more than the original Turbo versions of some of the titles in the poll (and even real copies of Sapphire), which means that it would still be more worthwhile to bootleg it than those games.
Except we all have copies. Anyone who doesn't can ask nice and get one. Maybe we don't all have packaged bootlegs, but resources are better spent making new glass-mastered discs to help gamers play more rare games on real hardware than making extra facsimiles for half-assed collectors too lazy to either print their missing packaging or buy the real thing.
Well then, why waste money on packaging at all and not just have a few different games pressed as disc-only for the price of a single packaged game?
Personally, I'd rather have professionally made inserts and manuals and have to burn my own cdr (whether professionally labeled or not) than the other way around. I'm still thinking more about fan translations and unreleased games though.
Most of the Turbo games we're talking about don't go for too much. Why does anyone need Air Zonk in english anyway? Dynastic Hero is the only CD game that isn't available too often and goes for quite a bit. But the only benefit of going to the trouble of bootlegging it would be so that a single guessing game is a little easier (if we're talking about simply helping people play on real hardware). I may play through a lot of gaijin protected games, but I literally guessed randomly the few times I've played through the import and it wasn't a big deal. The other thing to keep in mind is that this isn't some original game that we can only fully appreciate by playing the rare Turbo version of. The Genesis version can be bought CIB for $10 and is always available.
I suggest doing any Turbo games only after all the unreleased, translated and better expensive and/or rare PCE games have been done.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: GohanX on August 07, 2011, 02:03:40 PM
I really didn't know anything about Space Fantasy Zone, not being a Fantasy Zone fan, but I just looked it up and nobody told me it was Space Harrier starring Opa-Opa. Do want!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 07, 2011, 02:15:12 PM
I really didn't know anything about Space Fantasy Zone, not being a Fantasy Zone fan, but I just looked it up and nobody told me it was Space Harrier starring Opa-Opa. Do want!
You might as well download it and start playing it. It doesn't exist in anything other than cdr form. :)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 07, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
Sapphire still isn't that cheap and available and bootlegs still sell for as much as or more than the original Turbo versions of some of the titles in the poll (and even real copies of Sapphire), which means that it would still be more worthwhile to bootleg it than those games.
Except we all have copies. Anyone who doesn't can ask nice and get one. Maybe we don't all have packaged bootlegs, but resources are better spent making new glass-mastered discs to help gamers play more rare games on real hardware than making extra facsimiles for half-assed collectors too lazy to either print their missing packaging or buy the real thing.
Well then, why waste money on packaging at all and not just have a few different games pressed as disc-only for the price of a single packaged game?
Personally, I'd rather have professionally made inserts and manuals and have to burn my own cdr (whether professionally labeled or not) than the other way around. I'm still thinking more about fan translations and unreleased games though.
I argued for minimal manuals in my first post and would be fine with disc-only boots.
CD-R's are useless. I've spent hours burning Grade A Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs and other high-quality brands at different speeds and they don't work. They jam the laser in my Duo and, while playable in my SCD, they make really bad noises. I have some old games on 74-minute discs that work fine, but such discs can't found anymore.
Quote
Most of the Turbo games we're talking about don't go for too much. Why does anyone need Air Zonk in english anyway? Dynastic Hero is the only CD game that isn't available too often and goes for quite a bit. But the only benefit of going to the trouble of bootlegging it would be so that a single guessing game is a little easier (if we're talking about simply helping people play on real hardware). I may play through a lot of gaijin protected games, but I literally guessed randomly the few times I've played through the import and it wasn't a big deal. The other thing to keep in mind is that this isn't some original game that we can only fully appreciate by playing the rare Turbo version of. The Genesis version can be bought CIB for $10 and is always available. I suggest doing any Turbo games only after all the unreleased, translated and better expensive and/or rare PCE games have been done.
I'm also for doing unreleased and translated games first. I think we're on on the same page other than doing another Sapphire bootleg.
I think the Space Fantasy Zone print by Anime4Ever is really decent, I personally don't think it warrants an improved version.
edit: the version I'm talking about is this one: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5143.0
Except for the ridiculous price ;) Plus looks to be "sold out".
Yeah, Space Fantasy Zone deserves special attention. Unlike the Sapphire... 1) it was never officially released 2) the bootleg is now sold out 3) the bootleg is a CD-R, albeit a high-quality one 4) the bootleg originally sold for $160, then $89 + $10 shipping (compared to $60 for the Sapphire bootleg in 2005) 5) no one like BlueBMW has ever given away free copies
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 07, 2011, 03:03:03 PM
Yeah, Space Fantasy Zone deserves special attention. Unlike the Sapphire... 1) it was never officially released 2) the bootleg is now sold out 3) the bootleg is a CD-R, albeit a high-quality one 4) the bootleg originally sold for $160, then $89 + $10 shipping (compared to $60 for the Sapphire bootleg in 2005) 5) no one like BlueBMW has ever given away free copies
I was unaware the Bootleg of Space Fantasy Zone is a CD-R, I guess it's another possibility.
But I am on the translated game and unrelased game only bandwagon. So Motteke Tomago, Ys IV and Space Fantasy Zone are the logical choices here.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 07, 2011, 03:50:24 PM
I argued for minimal manuals in my first post and would be fine with disc-only boots.
CD-R's are useless. I've spent hours burning Grade A Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs and other high-quality brands at different speeds and they don't work. They jam the laser in my Duo and, while playable in my SCD, they make really bad noises. I have some old games on 74-minute discs that work fine, but such discs can't found anymore.
I think that it's more of a system by system issue as well as people trying to burn crappy isos off the net. Although I haven't made and played many games on cdr in years, the ones that I have that weren't random franken-isos, such as Ys IV and Xak III, which I ripped myself without converting the audio tracks into a different format, plus all the Mysterious Song betas, have always played just as well as factory pressed discs. The last time my Duo had problems playing cdrs, was not too long after I got it years ago as the old laZer was dying and had trouble reading real games as well.
I have a spindle of RiDATA that I got from a local computer store, after asking for "the cheapest cdrs you have". I burned the latest MS build a few months back at full speed and it plays perfectly fine. Maybe you just need a new laser or system?
I'm not pro-Sapphire bootlegs, they just make more sense than some of the other suggestions. The copies that BlueBMW gave away are loose misprints. People are still paying as much as $100 - $200 for what they know is a (complete) bootleg, while authentic copies can be found for as little as $200.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: GohanX on August 07, 2011, 03:54:34 PM
I think the biggest problem with Duos reading CDRs isn't the discs themselves, but crappy isos like you said. I can't think of a single iso I've used that I haven't had to fix, but the fixed isos work fine on Taiyo Yuden cdrs.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 08, 2011, 05:14:30 AM
how do you fix the ISO
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 08, 2011, 05:33:42 AM
I'd be interested to know if anyone has encountered a jammed laser on something other than a black Duo or SuperCDROM2 (both of which, IIRC, use the same sled).
I don't play a lot of CDRs, but the only time I've had a jammed laser was with a US Duo. I've never had a jammed laser with my briefcase or Duo R and most of the CDRs I've played were on those two systems.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mishran on August 08, 2011, 05:45:45 AM
I'd be interested to know if anyone has encountered a jammed laser on something other than a black Duo or SuperCDROM2 (both of which, IIRC, use the same sled).
I've owned two Duo systems already and one would jam with CD-R media all the time while the other read them without trouble. Sold the jammer several years ago. Still have the other, but haven't used a CD-R on it in a long time. My Duo-R never gives me a problem. The Turbo CD unit also reads CD-Rs no problem, though it has been starting to make that grinding sound some people have been experiencing lately. ](*,)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 08, 2011, 05:58:27 AM
Nice to see such a positive reaction. Y'all are making my pants tight. :D
As for Ys IV (and similarly translated games) being omitted at the start - it's because it would be a lot more work and require outside assistance; if this doesn't work out, I'd rather waste only my own time and as little of it as possible. The five games listed are pretty much ready to go (outside of ensuring Dave Shadoff doesn't have a problem with me distributing his translation of Motteke Tomago), whereas Ys IV would need it's manual and liner translated, and pressing it now without an audio dub would either kill the chances of such a dub ever being completed or make baby Jebus cry if a dub were later finished.
Manuals pose a problem and should be minimized. Inserts larger than eight pages become really expensive....Sparky-style inserts are cheap, effective placeholders and impossible to confuse with originals.
This can be discussed further (and possibly voted on in another poll), but the difference in cost isn't all that much per disc: using four-panel inserts (Sparkler StyleTM) as a base point, 8 page books are about $.45 more, 12 page books are $.65 more, and 16 page books are $.83 more. Even cheaper than a four-panel insert are the two-panel at a savings of $.08, or cheapest of all just the disc itself for a savings of $.73.
I am just afraid that it would be hard to distinguish the real game from a fake when buying online. Which is the case with Sapphire.
Things would definitely be changed to make it obvious to anyone that bothers to look that it's a boot - more obvious than the Sapphire boots which aren't at all hard to distinguish from the real deal if you know what to look for.
As for Ys IV (and similarly translated games) being omitted at the start - it's because it would be a lot more work and require outside assistance; if this doesn't work out, I'd rather waste only my own time and as little of it as possible. The five games listed are pretty much ready to go (outside of ensuring Dave Shadoff doesn't have a problem with me distributing his translation of Motteke Tomago), whereas Ys IV would need it's manual and liner translated, and pressing it now without an audio dub would either kill the chances of such a dub ever being completed or make baby Jebus cry if a dub were later finished.
How much of a manual would Ys IV really need. D-pad functions and explaining how to RAM enemies, maybe put the text translation of the cutscenes in very tiny font in the manual?
Motteke Tomago is a good choice especially since he made a manual for it as well. Just replace that PC Engine logo with a TurboGrafx 16 logo and you have it ready to go.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 08, 2011, 07:15:35 AM
I'd be interested to know if anyone has encountered a jammed laser on something other than a black Duo or SuperCDROM2 (both of which, IIRC, use the same sled).
I've owned two Duo systems already and one would jam with CD-R media all the time while the other read them without trouble. Sold the jammer several years ago. Still have the other, but haven't used a CD-R on it in a long time. My Duo-R never gives me a problem. The Turbo CD unit also reads CD-Rs no problem, though it has been starting to make that grinding sound some people have been experiencing lately. ](*,)
Interesting. Could you tell me what are the production date(s) is/are on the bottom sticker? I have an August '92 Duo and a January '93.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on August 08, 2011, 07:23:26 AM
I would be more than happy to chip in $50 for such a project, for multiple copies, or just one copy of any of the games listed.
If I had to make a list of games that I'd want booties of (If anything, just to reduce use of the real copies) they'd be: Dracula X Beyond Shadowgate DEII and Ys IV (Translated ;) )
I'm really curious about this Motteke Tomago - maybe that's a good starting point?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 08, 2011, 07:41:50 AM
I would be more than happy to chip in $50 for such a project, for multiple copies, or just one copy of any of the games listed.
If I had to make a list of games that I'd want booties of (If anything, just to reduce use of the real copies) they'd be: Dracula X Beyond Shadowgate DEII and Ys IV (Translated ;) )
I'm really curious about this Motteke Tomago - maybe that's a good starting point?
Motteke Tomago is a game where you are a bird and you have to round up your eggs and bring them to your home. It feels like a combination of Hungry Hungry Hippos and Bomberman.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 08, 2011, 07:43:53 AM
I'd be interested to know if anyone has encountered a jammed laser on something other than a black Duo or SuperCDROM2 (both of which, IIRC, use the same sled).
I've owned two Duo systems already and one would jam with CD-R media all the time while the other read them without trouble. Sold the jammer several years ago. Still have the other, but haven't used a CD-R on it in a long time. My Duo-R never gives me a problem. The Turbo CD unit also reads CD-Rs no problem, though it has been starting to make that grinding sound some people have been experiencing lately. ](*,)
Interesting. Could you tell me what are the production date(s) is/are on the bottom sticker? I have an August '92 Duo and a January '93.
this in not quite correct. the black DUO and the DUO-R(X) use the exact cd drive assemble (laser, motors, sleds ect), however the CDR2 drives use a laser from a sony walkman.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: blueraven on August 08, 2011, 11:08:03 AM
How much of a manual would Ys IV really need. D-pad functions and explaining how to RAM enemies, maybe put the text translation of the cutscenes in very tiny font in the manual?
If it doesn't get the full monty treatment (if any game deserves it, it's this one), then it doesn't really need anything: the manual cover is already in English, the spine is easy as pie to fix, and it doesn't have to have instructions (if ya can't figure out how to play this game without instructions, ya probably couldn't read 'em anyway). But I think peeps are interested in more of the artwork than just the cover; at the very least it'd need the case liner and something for the opposite side of the insert. Besides, the difference in price between a simple insert and a manual can probably be found in your couch cushions (the cumulative outlay to me is only $136), so why half-ass it? Full-ass or nothing!
If it doesn't get the full monty treatment (if any game deserves it, it's this one), then it doesn't really need anything: the manual cover is already in English, the spine is easy as pie to fix, and it doesn't have to have instructions (if ya can't figure out how to play this game without instructions, ya probably couldn't read 'em anyway). But I think peeps are interested in more of the artwork than just the cover; at the very least it'd need the case liner and something for the opposite side of the insert. Besides, the difference in price between a simple insert and a manual can probably be found in your couch cushions (the cumulative outlay to me is only $136), so why half-ass it? Full-ass or nothing!
Then that settles it, go all out, end the Poll and do Ys IV. :-D
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MasonSushi on August 08, 2011, 11:52:36 AM
i too vote for Ys IV
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: hizaygizirlz on August 08, 2011, 03:59:20 PM
I voted for Space Fantasy Zone, but I think anything that was never available to us would be nice. Ys IV and things of that nature.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: roflmao on August 08, 2011, 06:12:18 PM
Ys IV would be awesome, though I'd probably be in for anything.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: termis on August 09, 2011, 12:33:48 AM
Dynastic Hero for me. It's all ready to go, no diddling around with anything needed, and I'd rather play this one in English than in Japanese if possible, but there's no way in hell I'm going to pay the going price for a real one.
But really, any other high(er)-priced PCE/TG games that's known to be a decent game, I'll shell out for.
Translated RPGs would be cool and all, but if don't have English voices (or corresponding subs), it'll always feel unfinished to me and I wouldn't be all that interested.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: cyloaiza on August 09, 2011, 02:00:20 AM
I don't like the idea of making pressed copies of these US releases, in particular Dynastic Hero. The PCE counterparts of these games are cheap and it is not necessary to know english to get through these games. Not to mention you can play the Genesis version in english as well. If you can get through Bikkurimanworld without know Japanese, you can definitely finish Dynastic Hero as well.
I agree that a J-RPG such as Ys IV would be the best route to take, just as so many of us have voiced out since it is not one of the choices. Having just the text is good enough for me. But out of the voting choices, my vote goes to Space Fantasy Zone since it never got an official release.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 09, 2011, 04:22:12 AM
Heh, Genesis versions, yeah, that's funny.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: xelement5x on August 09, 2011, 05:10:42 AM
I think this is a phenomenal idea, and like most I'd probably get a copy of whatever booties you made, but I voted for Space Fantasy Zone because it'd be awesome to have an unreleased game out in slick packaging. Plus, the cover art looks like Satoshi Urushihara whose art style I've always liked. I would also be happy to buy several copies (maybe for the car CD player?) to help defray the initial cost for you.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 09, 2011, 05:59:01 AM
It is Satoshi Urushihara, but its actually art for the print advertisement since there never was a cover. The actual cover might have been the same, but probably it would have been a different picture with a latently square layout.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: TheClash603 on August 09, 2011, 06:28:11 AM
Space Fantasy Zone is easier than Ys IV, start with it to make sure you aren't biting off more than you can swallow!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 09, 2011, 07:50:40 AM
I don't like the idea of making pressed copies of these US releases, in particular Dynastic Hero. The PCE counterparts of these games are cheap and it is not necessary to know english to get through these games. Not to mention you can play the Genesis version in english as well. If you can get through Bikkurimanworld without know Japanese, you can definitely finish Dynastic Hero as well.
Again, I'm personally only interested in prototypes and translations, BUT I see merit in Dynastic Hero and some of the others.
U.S. candidates blow by blow:
Dynastic Hero This is the most expensive U.S. CD for crying out loud. It's up there with the most expensive PCE titles. It's so expensive that sane people will never buy it. Yes, one can muck through the import version, but there's enough text in this game that it's pretty nice to be able to read. When I only had the PCE version I got stuck in the first town because I didn't know I was supposed to press "up" in a certain spot to go talk to the fairy. I have no qualms telling those interested in Super Air Zonk to go fly a kite and buy the fully-playable import, but I really like to get the full experience when I'm playing a non-linear, pseudo-RPG with a storyline and shops. I don't like depending on walkthroughs. And I really hate people suggesting that I go play Genesis or Virtual Console. I don't play those systems. I have one game for my Genesis - Warriors of the Eternal Sun. Unlike kids these days I don't dive into a different console every six mouths. I have only bought one non-NEC system (a 3DO) in the last fourteen years. I'm a TurboGrafx gamer; that's why I ponied-up and bought Dynastic Hero.
Super Air Zonk 1) The game sucks. 2) It's a shooter and there's no text - go play the import.
Beyond Shadowgate + MMIII The first wasn't released in Japan, the second requires reading. I don't put much stock in ebay prices and maybe these games aren't really that expensive, but it's fair to say that both titles have become a whole hell of a lot harder to find in the last two years.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 09, 2011, 08:23:40 AM
It is Satoshi Urushihara, but its actually art for the print advertisement since there never was a cover. The actual cover might have been the same, but probably it would have been a different picture with a latently square layout.
That picture was used in small sections of NEC ads along with other games like Monster Maker, in which each of the games' actual cover art was used.
Vestcoat: I ran into similar problems in the first area of the English versions of MWIII for Genesis and SMS. :P
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on August 09, 2011, 06:58:48 PM
If you do Dynatic Hero, I'd rather see it be reprogrammed to have paralax & such, as it easily could've had it, using the various techniques, & pretty much all the scrolling is horizontal, there's very few area's that have vertical scrolling, & even fewer that would have paralax! So, somebody get right on this & reprogram the bastard! :D
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 10, 2011, 07:31:58 AM
It looks like Space Fantasy Zone is the first victim. Two hours, three hard drives, and a handful of cdrs turned up precisely zero scans for it's artwork, so if any of y'all has 'em saved somewhere or can scan their 'originals' (nat?), I'd be most appreciative if ya sent 'em my way.
I played about halfway through the iso I have saved and didn't notice any problems except for the level clear song being truncated; can that be fixed or does anyone have an iso that's already fixed? After getting my ass handed to me on level 6, I restarted and skipped my way to the ending, which played like it should (unlike the 'retail' version). What else should I be looking for to ensure I've a good iso?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Sadler on August 10, 2011, 08:12:32 AM
Are you sure anime4ever guy doesn't have more Space Fantasy Zones? I know it says sold out, but I bought a copy last year when it said that. I emailed about Sapphire and asked him to let me know when he got Space Fantasy Zone in again and he said he actually had copies. Might be worth emailing. At any rate, I can scan what I've got.
Having said that, I'll buy anything you press so long as I don't already have it, but I'd definitely prefer some of the hard to find US titles, particularly Dynastic Hero.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 10, 2011, 08:50:33 AM
Are you sure anime4ever guy doesn't have more Space Fantasy Zones? I know it says sold out, but I bought a copy last year when it said that. I emailed about Sapphire and asked him to let me know when he got Space Fantasy Zone in again and he said he actually had copies. Might be worth emailing. At any rate, I can scan what I've got.
Again, his $100/shipped price for a CD-R is pretty steep. Especially compared to the earlier Sapphire boot, which was a not-completely-insane sixty dollars for a glass mastered disc. Remember he originally tried to get $160 for SFZ; the guy is a gouger, no doubt about it.
Furthermore, he was rather deceptive when he came around here in 2005. He pretended he bought a box of Sapphires in Tokyo, claimed ignorance regarding their origin, and put up that "small site" just to sell those few copies. See here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=737.msg4215#msg4215 Obviously untrue considering he later made SFZ boots and sold his misprint Sapphire discs to Blue.
I'm not inclined to support Fudoh even if his prices were reasonable.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Windy on August 10, 2011, 09:24:33 AM
I would be very interested in this i'm more into the play part then say collection part. although I have so much that have to get to playing :P PLAY TILL THE FINGERS BLEED!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 10, 2011, 10:44:48 AM
It looks like Space Fantasy Zone is the first victim. Two hours, three hard drives, and a handful of cdrs turned up precisely zero scans for it's artwork, so if any of y'all has 'em saved somewhere or can scan their 'originals' (nat?), I'd be most appreciative if ya sent 'em my way.
I played about halfway through the iso I have saved and didn't notice any problems except for the level clear song being truncated; can that be fixed or does anyone have an iso that's already fixed? After getting my ass handed to me on level 6, I restarted and skipped my way to the ending, which played like it should (unlike the 'retail' version). What else should I be looking for to ensure I've a good iso?
I remembered nat taking one for the team, which is why I checked to see if the ending was there (it is); I cheated to get there though, so maybe it won't show up if I beat the game legit. More 'research' will be conducted tonight.
Also noted was how a couple tracks get chopped off prematurely. Mine does that too, but thesteve might have me headed down the path to that problem's fix. Keep in mind that I'm mildly retarded - I make no promises here.
Ope says he'll be forwarding me artwork soon, so that should be taken care of. Thanks, ope!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: csgx1 on August 10, 2011, 11:36:55 AM
Furthermore, he was rather deceptive when he came around here in 2005. He pretended he bought a box of Sapphires in Tokyo, claimed ignorance regarding their origin, and put up that "small site" just to sell those few copies. See here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=737.msg4215#msg4215 Obviously untrue considering he later made SFZ boots and sold his misprint Sapphire discs to Blue.
I'm not inclined to support Fudoh even if his prices were reasonable.
Interesting read and great background info about Sapphire boots. I especially like Fudoh's first post....
Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.
Thanks, Fudoh
Describing Sapphire boots as Hudson waste, samples or rejects that's "not illegal" is some hilarious BS. :lol:
I still would be interested in SFZ even if there's no ending when beaten straight through.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Sadler on August 10, 2011, 01:08:29 PM
Are you sure anime4ever guy doesn't have more Space Fantasy Zones? I know it says sold out, but I bought a copy last year when it said that. I emailed about Sapphire and asked him to let me know when he got Space Fantasy Zone in again and he said he actually had copies. Might be worth emailing. At any rate, I can scan what I've got.
Again, his $100/shipped price for a CD-R is pretty steep. Especially compared to the earlier Sapphire boot, which was a not-completely-insane sixty dollars for a glass mastered disc. Remember he originally tried to get $160 for SFZ; the guy is a gouger, no doubt about it.
Furthermore, he was rather deceptive when he came around here in 2005. He pretended he bought a box of Sapphires in Tokyo, claimed ignorance regarding their origin, and put up that "small site" just to sell those few copies. See here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=737.msg4215#msg4215 Obviously untrue considering he later made SFZ boots and sold his misprint Sapphire discs to Blue.
I'm not inclined to support Fudoh even if his prices were reasonable.
Oh, wow. Didn't realize the history there. That's seriously lame.
So, turns out I bought my Sapphire (without manual :( ) and Space Fantasy Zone back in March. He charged me $50 for SFZ. He also charged me $50 for two copies of Sapphire, which in hindsight sucks. No manual, AND it's the same disc that been given away for free on this forum. :( Oh well I guess, still an awesome game, and it did come with a case and spine card.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: exile on August 10, 2011, 02:07:58 PM
I'm down for booties in my Turbo!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 11, 2011, 03:12:58 AM
Last night I played it through to the end without skipping (but with save state abuse - f*ck level 6!), and the ending appeared like it should. Hopefully that ain't gonna be a problem. 8)
The tunes have a few problems though:
1) The end level and high score tunes are chopped off at their ends. The tracks themselves go silent and have a couple seconds of nothing at the end (it's not the game stopping the track too early), so the only way to fix this one is to find the complete tracks or recreate them. 2) Tracks 3 and 8 are almost identical (same song but a tad different); and while this isn't a problem per se, it is an opportunity. Track 3 is used for stages 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8 and track 8 is used for stages 3 and 6, so a new track could be substituted so we don't have to listen to the same song in every stage. 3) The title screen and intro cut scene are silent. This also isn't exactly a problem, but it sure does suck.
I didn't want to involve anyone else and risk wasting their time on the first outing, but none of these things can be fixed by me. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Opethian on August 11, 2011, 03:28:33 AM
add in some follin tunes 8) or the classic Fantasy Zone stage music
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Senshi on August 11, 2011, 03:53:08 AM
I was torn between Might and Magic III and Dynastic Hero but I ended up picking the latter in the end. I'd be very happy with either one or both frankly.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: chany60126 on August 11, 2011, 05:43:44 AM
I'll take a look at fixing those truncated tunes and finding a track 3 alternate.
What are follin tunes?
Here is one of his finest tunes:
do teh follin. do eet 8)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 11, 2011, 11:00:28 AM
Ouch. I just downloaded and listened to those truncated tracks (I assume #6 & 7). They're so short and non-repetitive that there's no way to fix them with what's there.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mishran on August 12, 2011, 04:12:26 AM
If people were paying $50-100 for SFZ with the clipped tracks, would it really matter for the game at $5? I'd personally be happy to have a nice professional looking case, manual/insert, and disc on my shelf that is also fun to play. Just my opinion, if my opinion counts. :-"
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on August 14, 2011, 12:18:27 PM
Well, it looks like we "may" have a chance of getting Ys 4 dubbed! We shall see what happens with this! http://forums.magicengine.com/en/viewtopic.php?t=2742
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 17, 2011, 06:58:23 AM
I still need artwork scans if anyone can oblige; I have the case insert and manual cover but need the rest of the manual, the poster, and the disc. I'd even like the spine, though I doubt I'll be making them.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Sparky on August 24, 2011, 02:25:04 AM
i can contribute to making the poster if some one gets the art scanned? i can probably do about 100 of them with with very little cost. I will have to look into it though before i commit. Necro i will pm you later with a few thoughts
EDIT: also wonder who said no to the bootleg in the poll, share your thoughts.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Senshi on August 24, 2011, 08:45:41 AM
Frankly I don't want to hear anymore holier than thou comments about making bootlegs of twenty year old games.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: BlackandBlue on August 24, 2011, 09:34:41 AM
I vote for Space Fantasy Zone, but Ys IV would be pretty badass.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: BlackandBlue on August 24, 2011, 09:36:05 AM
EDIT: also wonder who said no to the bootleg in the poll, share your thoughts.
I voted no. My thoughts are summarized pretty succinctly by the phrasing of the poll option. Frankly, I'm surprised I'm still the only one that voted that way.
I give a pass in the case of Space Fantasy Zone (or anything else that didn't get an official widespread release) however, since that's basically unobtanium otherwise.
But even in the case of SFZ, very nice quality copies exist from Anime4ever. Not at his asking price, but that's a different story.....
It's possible part of it, for me at least, is a holdover from the music scene, where I vehemently oppose bootlegging any commercially available material.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 24, 2011, 03:31:08 PM
Yknow, Might and Magic 3 seems like a dumb idea all around unless you really want it for Turbob Collecting purposes.
The game exists for PC, easy to obtain, and then you DOSBox.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 24, 2011, 05:18:32 PM
as i see it boots discourage production, by diverting funds from rightful mfg. however making boot of out of production items cant hurt production, because (production/production interest) has ended for the mfg.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nat on August 24, 2011, 08:39:56 PM
I agree with this, for the most part. My biggest problem with bootlegging music in particular is that it takes money out of the artists' pockets, and discourages them from creating new music in the future.
Just look at what has happened to the music industry over the past 15 years....
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 25, 2011, 01:08:13 AM
as i see it boots discourage production, by diverting funds from rightful mfg. however making boot of out of production items cant hurt production, because (production/production interest) has ended for the mfg.
Except that Turbo/PCE games are still currently being sold by the manufacturer in the popular format that music is mostly sold in today.
Yknow, Might and Magic 3 seems like a dumb idea all around unless you really want it for Turbob Collecting purposes.
The game exists for PC, easy to obtain, and then you DOSBox.
Well I know someone else mentioned they don't like buying games for other platforms (which I guess PC could count as). But the same situation exists for Dynastic Hero and Super Air Zonk as well, they can be obtained via the Wii virtual console. All you need is a Wii, an internet connection and some Wii points. It's more or less the same situation for Might and Magic 3 as it is for those two, they're available inexpensively if you have the hardware to play it and want to play it on that hardware, with that said some people on the forum have expressed that they aren't interested in that.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 25, 2011, 01:46:09 AM
I meant this, lol. The full boxed PC game. Complete.
and I meant it mostly for M&M3 only because its not a PCE exclusive and it didn't originate on the PCE either.
and it plays far better on the PC anyways..
I guess I don't see the point in wasting time / resources bootlegging a game like Might and Magic III that was released elsewhere with better packaging and is obtainable... when we have games like Space Fantasy Zone that were never released.
Or PCE/TG exclusives that are retardedly expensive because of the big money gouging pole smokers. Like Dynastic Hero.
SFZ seems like the best choice since it would be the PCE community producing a PCE game that was never officially released, and making sure its done right. If it works, we can always do this again for another game.
If it doesn't work out well enough to encourage another run with another game, it'll be a good thing we did it on a game that counts.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Senshi on August 25, 2011, 02:01:35 AM
as i see it boots discourage production, by diverting funds from rightful mfg. however making boot of out of production items cant hurt production, because (production/production interest) has ended for the mfg.
exactly
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Lum on August 25, 2011, 02:33:54 AM
Fantasy Star Soldier anyone? Maybe the Ys IV fan translation if that patch is complete enough. I'd like to see more games have competent yet obvious booties. Something readily told from an original, while still blowing away the ugliness of normal burned copies or the kind of crappy bootlegs often associated with Hong Kong/etc pirates.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 25, 2011, 04:16:44 AM
Im down with bootlegging/pirating/spreading around stuff that is OOP/place that made it is defunct.
If the original crew isn't seeing the $$, I don't care.
Reminds me of the home of the underdogs. They distribute games that are defunct, but anything thats still commercially available somehow, they wont let you download.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 25, 2011, 05:11:05 AM
perfectly stated arc
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Senshi on August 25, 2011, 05:25:40 AM
I guarantee that anyone who disagrees with having these bootlegs made has them in their collection and wouldn't be so vehemently opposed to if they didn't. For the rest of us who can't pay $400 for Dynastic Hero these days this is great news.
P.S. I've downloaded games on PSN (not sure about VC) but they are emulated badly IMO. Especially the music.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MotherGunner on August 25, 2011, 05:42:48 AM
I agree with this, for the most part. My biggest problem with bootlegging music in particular is that it takes money out of the artists' pockets, and discourages them from creating new music in the future.
Just look at what has happened to the music industry over the past 15 years....
Agreed, and I was desperately wanting more K-Fed and Amy Winehouse albums!
Lol jk!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 25, 2011, 06:41:15 AM
I meant this, lol. The full boxed PC game. Complete.
and I meant it mostly for M&M3 only because its not a PCE exclusive and it didn't originate on the PCE either.
and it plays far better on the PC anyways..
I guess I don't see the point in wasting time / resources bootlegging a game like Might and Magic III that was released elsewhere with better packaging and is obtainable... when we have games like Space Fantasy Zone that were never released.
Or PCE/TG exclusives that are retardedly expensive because of the big money gouging pole smokers. Like Dynastic Hero.
SFZ seems like the best choice since it would be the PCE community producing a PCE game that was never officially released, and making sure its done right. If it works, we can always do this again for another game.
If it doesn't work out well enough to encourage another run with another game, it'll be a good thing we did it on a game that counts.
People interested in bootlegs aren't looking to play a version of a game, they want to play the english Turbo version on real hardware.
Dynastic Hero is also available elsewhere, is easily obtainable with better packaging and most people consider the Genesis vetsion to be superior. I agree with you, but other people want these bootlegs for different reasons.
In response to you next post, most of the games we are talking about here are still commercially available. If we were talking about this five+ years ago it would be a different story...
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 25, 2011, 07:24:38 AM
Space Fantasy Zone is unfinished.
The implications of that one are that we would be "finishing" the game, and then producing it. Everyone in the PCE community's e-weener would grow by 12" once that happens!
The rest are finished. Translations aside, obviously.
In a perfect world, we'd have them all. But we don't. Choosing wisely is important.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arjak on August 25, 2011, 05:38:33 PM
I'd be so down for bootlegs of translated PCE games! Bring 'em on! :dance:
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Senshi on August 26, 2011, 01:40:41 AM
"People interested in bootlegs aren't looking to play a version of a game, they want to play the english Turbo version on real hardware.
Dynastic Hero is also available elsewhere, is easily obtainable with better packaging and most people consider the Genesis vetsion to be superior. I agree with you, but other people want these bootlegs for different reasons.
In response to you next post, most of the games we are talking about here are still commercially available. If we were talking about this five+ years ago it would be a different story..."
Then i'll send you $12 for the game and shipping and you can send me your copy then download it on your Wii since they are equivalent.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 26, 2011, 06:00:24 AM
"People interested in bootlegs aren't looking to play a version of a game, they want to play the english Turbo version on real hardware.
Dynastic Hero is also available elsewhere, is easily obtainable with better packaging and most people consider the Genesis vetsion to be superior. I agree with you, but other people want these bootlegs for different reasons.
In response to you next post, most of the games we are talking about here are still commercially available. If we were talking about this five+ years ago it would be a different story..."
Then i'll send you $12 for the game and shipping and you can send me your copy then download it on your Wii since they are equivalent.
If you're talking specifically about Turbo/PCE and not the "elsewhere" Arkan meant (other platforms), which I was responding to, I only have one copy of the PCE version which I play (why pay $300+ for a few lines of text?). But you can probably buy your own copy off of eBay for less than you are offering.
I prefer to play games on real hardware.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Jesse813 on August 26, 2011, 06:44:43 AM
Dynastic Hero gets my vote though all the games on the list would be great too
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 26, 2011, 07:24:01 AM
I was referring to M&M3. Taking that example and generalizing it for a game like Dynastic Hero makes no sense.
Everyone knows the PCE one is better. If they disagree, pfsht. lrn2obey.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arjak on August 26, 2011, 07:53:22 AM
Here is my reason for not wanting to spend a ridiculous amount on M&M3 summed up in one link:
Why spend several hundred dollars on one game in the series when you can get the first six, including the one in question for ten bucks!?
It's called logic. It can be a quite helpful concept sometimes. :P
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on August 26, 2011, 08:16:23 AM
Logic is all well and good, and I don't disagree that there are about 5-6 Turbo games (most of them in my sig) that go for ludicrous prices. However, many people (myself included) are trying to have a complete collection of U.S. Turbografx-16/Turbo Duo games. So the fact that I can get the first handful of M&M games for under $10 on a different system is pretty irrelevant.
Anyway, like I said earlier, I would take any one of these games as boots just to have as placeholders until I can either afford the real thing or find the real thing for a somewhat reasonable price.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arjak on August 26, 2011, 09:08:11 AM
I do understand your viewpoint, jlued, and if it's a complete U.S. collection that you desire, that's different. However, as far as people who just want to play the games, Turbo or not, I believe my option works better in that regard.
I understand the collector's motive; after all, I'm a bit of a collector myself. However, since I am also a gamer, and not enough of a hardcore collector to desire every release ever, I personally prefer the option I gave in my previous post. For me, it's the love of the game that drives me more, not the collector mentality, so I prefer the six-games-for-ten-dollars option. Still, to each their own.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on August 26, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
I getcha. Turbo is the only console that I'm trying to collect for, so it's a bit of a different situation for me. My favorite console, the one I have the most fond memories of, etc. Believe me, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even consider tracking down some of these games.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 26, 2011, 09:48:34 AM
I agree with this, for the most part. My biggest problem with bootlegging music in particular is that it takes money out of the artists' pockets, and discourages them from creating new music in the future.
Just look at what has happened to the music industry over the past 15 years....
I'm actually mostly very happy with what has happened with music in the last 15 years. It's much less top down that it was during the 20th century. There will never be a other Black Album...but so what? The Black Album not only sucked, but it's massive success destroyed a band that seemed to be the most promising metal act of all time.
The budgets record companies have to devote to making multi-millionare superstars out of talentless shitheads are almost gone. The music itself is at least as good as it's ever been. If you can't find the great music that's coming out almost every day then...you need to look harder. (Pro tip: it isn't on TV or the radio).
The idea that good music can't be made without massive record companies (that were only passing down %2 in royalties to the actual artists) is preposterous. Its also insulting to the many great musicians who put out music independently of that system.
None of this has anything to do with games though since games, especially modern high end ones, are almost impossible to self publish. You can't make Madden 2012 in a garage.
Someday you have to let go. A picture of the Mona Lisa can be easily found on the Internet for zero charge. I'm sure someone thinks that's taking money out of someones pocket, but...tough shit.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 26, 2011, 10:10:09 AM
too true zeta. most of what i have sought in music in the last several years is low/no budget produced at home with your comp. the industry left the people, not the other way around by pushing drugs/gang/killing music <--I use the term loosely. while ignoring what we want to hear.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on August 26, 2011, 12:44:52 PM
I was referring to M&M3. Taking that example and generalizing it for a game like Dynastic Hero makes no sense.
Everyone knows the PCE one is better. If they disagree, pfsht. lrn2obey.
I have to agree. I have played 3 different ports of M&M III. The PC, Super NES, and Turbo Duo. I felt that the Duo version was by far the best. The games arent exactly the same either. There are slight differences, such as the ability to have hirelings in your party, ect.. Graphics for the Duo version were, IMO, better as well. Too bad it wont be seeing a bootleg release. Hell, maybe it will some day. Its actually something I would consider looking into if I knew how to go about it.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 26, 2011, 04:35:19 PM
too true zeta. most of what i have sought in music in the last several years is low/no budget produced at home with your comp. the industry left the people, not the other way around by pushing drugs/gang/killing music <--I use the term loosely. while ignoring what we want to hear.
Well, a couple of things happened.
First off, it wasn't until the mid-20th century that people actually started buying into the idea that rock and roll bands should be richer than God (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6301181.stm). The best guitar player on Earth in 1650 was probably living off whatever sort of monitory donation could fit into his hat. Despite this, music was probably even more valuable to people back then. Therefore, I consider the whole concept of music being highly profitable, or maybe even sustainable as a full time job, to be a historical aberration. If Aesop Rock can hold a day job then shitheads like Jay Z sure as hell better be able to.
Then there is the act of recording itself that has changed. In 1970 you actually did need full time engineers and expensive studios and such to make something like Sgt Pepper. Nowadays...not so much. What can be done at home on $5000 worth of gear is incredible. "Studio time" was once a huge thing, largely in the hands of labels, now its barely even relevant.
Another thing: there is more dumb shit to spend your money on. The service plan for an iPhone is $100 a month. That's money that would have gone towards music in the old days. Then we have Gameboy, cable TV, video games, etc...there is only so much money to go around, and the other stuff evidently seems more worth paying for these days.
Another huge factor was the ever increasing drive of corporate greed. In 1980, when I was a little kid first building by collection of singles, labels would actually market singles, and singles themselves made money. By the 90s singles were greatly de-de-emphesized. Some bands can make a great single and disappear forever (see: most of the Motown roster) some excel at albums (Genesis, Pink Floyd, Weird All), and both sorts of acts have their place in the world. The labels just wanted to sell albums though since that meant more revenue. By making singles almost totally unavailable they would force you to buy the entire album. If this was an album from The Cure that's not such a bad thing. If this is an album from Jennifer Lopez...you just paid $16 for 14 songs you hate and one you like. The push to fill all 80 minutes of a CD didn't help either. That's asking a LOT from even the best performers. All that filler may make the album seem like a better deal, but Unknown Pleasures is only 39:24 and every year a new batch of teenagers discover how great this record is.
So into this clusterf*ck enters Napster, or Kazaa, or Bit Torrent, or whatever, and the labels are instantly f*cked. The majors weren't making this music available to us, they were holding it ransom. If a 13 year old has a choice between spending his month's free money on a Smashmouth CD that he only wants because of one song, and downloading it for free and spending that money to see whatever shitty Disney Movie features that song, then the choice is clear. If the label wanted that money, they should have sold him just the song he wanted for $4.
Now with iTunes we can (usually) buy the songs one at a time, but the problem is that the bands the labels have been promoting the most heavily for the past 20 years are singles acts. They keep selling old Beatles songs because they have no idea who the next Beatles are, and they don't want to spend the money and time finding them or the culture to support them. They've turned music into such a low buck commodity there is no wonder people don't want to pay for it.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 26, 2011, 04:37:18 PM
I was referring to M&M3. Taking that example and generalizing it for a game like Dynastic Hero makes no sense.
Everyone knows the PCE one is better. If they disagree, pfsht. lrn2obey.
I have to agree. I have played 3 different ports of M&M III. The PC, Super NES, and Turbo Duo. I felt that the Duo version was by far the best. The games arent exactly the same either. There are slight differences, such as the ability to have hirelings in your party, ect.. Graphics for the Duo version were, IMO, better as well. Too bad it wont be seeing a bootleg release. Hell, maybe it will some day. Its actually something I would consider looking into if I knew how to go about it.
I can't understand why anyone would spend money on a fake thing like this. The only reason M&M3 is so desirable is because its OMG R@RE. If you actually just want to play it, burn a copy. A high end fake version of something makes no sense.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 26, 2011, 05:33:14 PM
You could make madden in a garage. That game blows.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 26, 2011, 06:01:15 PM
you could have designed the apple computer in one too
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 26, 2011, 08:42:42 PM
You could make madden in a garage. That game blows.
The legal team needed to make Madden wouldn't fit in a garage.
I dont like Madden, I absolutely hate football, but millions of man hours go into that POS series. Way more than have ever gone into any rock album (except Chinese Democracy, of course).
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on August 27, 2011, 06:35:57 AM
Can't let this thread be forgotten. With the English dub of Drac x available now, it would currently be worthy of a pressed disc in my eyes.
Well, I'd be for Dracula X for sure in English. Would be cool for Dynastic Hero and Beyond Shadowgate as well.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Flare65 on November 11, 2011, 05:02:12 PM
I'd be interested in an English copy of Drac X as well.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Keith Courage on November 11, 2011, 06:36:19 PM
Dracula X English has my vote.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 11, 2011, 06:58:14 PM
Now that the fully translated Drac X exists, I consider it the most suitable candidate for this project by a huge margin.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on November 12, 2011, 05:44:49 AM
I agree, Dracula X all the way.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: TheClash603 on November 12, 2011, 05:54:12 AM
Despite what the few previous posters said... when do I get my Space Fantasy Zone? Or did this project actually die?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: incrediblehark on November 12, 2011, 06:26:39 AM
I would love to see a Dracula X English, and a Space Fantasy Zone (although I originally voted for dynastic hero) but most of all I want any translated game, especially the rpgs to be "reproed / boots made" high quality pressed with color inserts and al of that. I want to play the games but don't likle using cdrs in my systems. and any of these that hopefully (fingers crossed) gets released I will buy at least 1 copy of. Make it happen!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: LameKat on November 12, 2011, 06:48:21 AM
+1 for the unreleased
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on November 22, 2011, 12:07:58 PM
This project ain't dead; it proceeds exceedingly slow. I'm hoping to have time this long weekend to work on some artwork (no complete scans of the CDR version have materialized), and I've had a couple offers for new tunes but nothing solid.
As for Dracula X - I'm not against doing it, but it ain't very high on my list. I'm much more interested in doing unreleased titles and games that are actually difficult to play without Japanese language skills.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on November 22, 2011, 12:45:45 PM
So which game actually got the go-ahead? I think I missed that post, and too lazy to go back and read it all over. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: chany60126 on November 22, 2011, 02:01:38 PM
So which game actually got the go-ahead? I think I missed that post, and too lazy to go back and read it all over. :mrgreen:
Space Fantasy Zone
The rom only has two songs, so we need more tunes similar to the existing tracks. If you have any ideas, post them here: https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=10180.0
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mishran on November 22, 2011, 03:10:49 PM
I still want to see Space Fantasy Zone get the first run. It's the only one that hasn't gotten an official release. I'd even be happy with a pressing with the castrated tracks. Decent tunage is nice, but the gameplay is the single most important part of a game in my eyes.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on November 22, 2011, 05:55:09 PM
I've offered to play around with the Super Fantasy Zone tracks, try to make them a lil' more rich sounding beyond the original FM, & I believe Arkhan offered to do stuff for this as well. I know I personally have been too busy to get started,partially because I'm getting way behind on my own personal Frozen Utopia schedule in regards to making tunes for Jungle Bros. Arkhan's been busy with school, though I think he has winter vacaction coming up, but he's probably got stuff to do for his Retrocade, so, it's hard to say when either of us can get around to it. I wish there was some more music makers on here, that maybe had more time then Ark or I to help get this ball rolling.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on November 23, 2011, 04:42:28 AM
Hey Guys, I may be able to help with the music end of this stuff. My friends and I own a recording studio and have assloads of equipment. However, I'm not sure exactly what the tone of this game is music-wise, what format you'd need the songs in, song length, the number of tracks, etc. We'd need to hear the existing songs so we could match them up as best we can. If you could send me specifics, I could work on some stuff with my friends and send over some samples. We're pretty busy now working on some other projects, but I've got a feeling this could be a fairly quick project depending on what you'd need.
EDIT: Just watched a bit of gameplay footage to hear the music. I'm sure we could do something that matches up. My only concern in doing this is I wouldn't want people to play it and even notice that the tracks are new. Fortunately, we've got some synths, and plenty of sound banks we can go through to find something as true to the original stuff as we can. Maybe homage some other Fantasy Zone games, etc.
If you guys are interested, let me know and we'll try to get something going.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on November 23, 2011, 05:25:57 AM
So you can hear what's already there, I can send you a link to the complete game (iso/cue/wav), or I can upload just the tunes somewhere. Format should be wav and the song length kinda depends - the two truncated songs should probably be the same length as the existing tunes (something like eight seconds), but the other songs aren't set in stone; they should be in the same neighborhood though, so they don't loop repeatedly or the level ends long before the music does. They should have a similar feel to the existing tracks, and at the bare minimum I'd like the two short truncated songs replaced and one additional song to alternate with the existing tune (one for odd levels, one for even); ideally, I'd like a separate song for each level.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on November 23, 2011, 06:48:14 AM
I can halp with music... but whats the deadline here? I'd most likely be waiting until mid december to make something.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on November 23, 2011, 07:20:06 AM
So you can hear what's already there, I can send you a link to the complete game (iso/cue/wav), or I can upload just the tunes somewhere. Format should be wav and the song length kinda depends - the two truncated songs should probably be the same length as the existing tunes (something like eight seconds), but the other songs aren't set in stone; they should be in the same neighborhood though, so they don't loop repeatedly or the level ends long before the music does. They should have a similar feel to the existing tracks, and at the bare minimum I'd like the two short truncated songs replaced and one additional song to alternate with the existing tune (one for odd levels, one for even); ideally, I'd like a separate song for each level.
Okay, so in an ideal situation you'd need what, six songs? But at minimum, two? Am I reading that correctly?
I'm meeting with those guys tonight and I'll talk it over to see what we can do.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: sirhcman on November 23, 2011, 08:13:09 AM
This project ain't dead; it proceeds exceedingly slow. I'm hoping to have time this long weekend to work on some artwork (no complete scans of the CDR version have materialized), and I've had a couple offers for new tunes but nothing solid.
As for Dracula X - I'm not against doing it, but it ain't very high on my list. I'm much more interested in doing unreleased titles and games that are actually difficult to play without Japanese language skills.
Thank you for doing this.. I will definitely purchase a copy :)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on November 23, 2011, 09:22:46 AM
Okay, so in an ideal situation you'd need what, six songs? But at minimum, two?
Minimum is one 'real' song and two shorties that need the last couple seconds filled/completed. In an ideal world we'd need the two short tracks fixed, seven new stage songs (there's eight stages sharing one track and the ninth stage already has a unique tune), plus two new songs to play on the intro. and title screens if Tom can figure out how to make 'em play. I actually have an idea for the title screen, though, so that one might be taken care of.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on November 23, 2011, 11:02:23 AM
Okay, what's a good length for the stage songs? I just wanna have a good idea of what we need when I meet with my friends tonight. But I talked briefly to both of them today and they both seemed like we could take care of it pretty quickly. Do you have a due date?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on November 23, 2011, 11:21:09 AM
The two truncated songs are six and eight seconds long, the one normal stage tune is 3:18 in length, and the two boss songs are 3:14 and 2:55 in length. PM forthcoming and you can hear 'em for yourself.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on November 23, 2011, 11:26:12 AM
Cool. Thanks for the info. I'll get back to you ASAP.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: mrhaboobi on November 23, 2011, 11:29:19 AM
I'd be interested in Unreleased games where the roms are plastered over the net, not keen on seeing roms of proper normally released games though.. seems like you are really walking a very thin line here with the legality of this.. At the same time though i wonder how those guys who own the unreleased roms feel about this ;)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nat on November 23, 2011, 02:14:50 PM
The two truncated songs are six and eight seconds long, the one normal stage tune is 3:18 in length, and the two boss songs are 3:14 and 2:55 in length. PM forthcoming and you can hear 'em for yourself.
Unless I've been hearing things all this time, there are two stage tunes that alternate every few levels. They sound almost the same, but are different.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: T2KFreeker on November 23, 2011, 07:47:18 PM
I really hate to ask this, but I have been out of the loop for a bit, as most of you know. So, what exactly is Space Fantasy Zone? I'd get it at this point to help support the release, but I would love to see what the game is. I suppose I could try Youtube . . .
Okay, so after seeing this, it looks like a cross between "Fantasy Zone" and "Space Harrier". This is cool. Here's a strange question though. To give it that feel, why not use music tracks from Fantasy Zone and Space Harrier in the game? That would probably bo cool and give you that nostalgic feel? Either way, when this sucker is done, I am all over it. Also, if you need some artwork, let me know what you need. I can't really do color stuff, but I draw and can do Black and White if you can do colors yourself.
Actually, I have a couple tracks on my PC that would be good for the game. One would be excellent remixed if someone could do it from Super Fantasy Zone and I have a pretty good Space Harrier Remix too . . .
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on November 24, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Using tracks from the Fantasy Zone games, or making lighthearted Space Harrier songs is the plan, but no just straight rips of those songs from the Hucard, arcade, etc. Preferably they'd have to be some kind of spruced up versions, with more of a redbook audio sound that matches up with the tracks already there.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nat on November 24, 2011, 12:48:41 PM
I really hate to ask this, but I have been out of the loop for a bit, as most of you know. So, what exactly is Space Fantasy Zone? I'd get it at this point to help support the release, but I would love to see what the game is. I suppose I could try Youtube . . .
Okay, so after seeing this, it looks like a cross between "Fantasy Zone" and "Space Harrier". This is cool. Here's a strange question though. To give it that feel, why not use music tracks from Fantasy Zone and Space Harrier in the game? That would probably bo cool and give you that nostalgic feel? Either way, when this sucker is done, I am all over it. Also, if you need some artwork, let me know what you need. I can't really do color stuff, but I draw and can do Black and White if you can do colors yourself.
Actually, I have a couple tracks on my PC that would be good for the game. One would be excellent remixed if someone could do it from Super Fantasy Zone and I have a pretty good Space Harrier Remix too . . .
You can read my review of the game here (http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2009/12/space-fantasy-zone.html).
Also, apparently many of the newcomers don't know, but there is already a fan-packaged version of the game available here (http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/). It really is a nice, professional package with the major caveat being that the game is on CD-R, not pressed.
I think the idea is to re-use the "original" artwork.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: T2KFreeker on November 26, 2011, 12:44:57 PM
I really hate to ask this, but I have been out of the loop for a bit, as most of you know. So, what exactly is Space Fantasy Zone? I'd get it at this point to help support the release, but I would love to see what the game is. I suppose I could try Youtube . . .
Okay, so after seeing this, it looks like a cross between "Fantasy Zone" and "Space Harrier". This is cool. Here's a strange question though. To give it that feel, why not use music tracks from Fantasy Zone and Space Harrier in the game? That would probably bo cool and give you that nostalgic feel? Either way, when this sucker is done, I am all over it. Also, if you need some artwork, let me know what you need. I can't really do color stuff, but I draw and can do Black and White if you can do colors yourself.
Actually, I have a couple tracks on my PC that would be good for the game. One would be excellent remixed if someone could do it from Super Fantasy Zone and I have a pretty good Space Harrier Remix too . . .
You can read my review of the game here (http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2009/12/space-fantasy-zone.html).
Also, apparently many of the newcomers don't know, but there is already a fan-packaged version of the game available here (http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/). It really is a nice, professional package with the major caveat being that the game is on CD-R, not pressed.
I think the idea is to re-use the "original" artwork.
Problem is that some of us can't play CD-R games. I came across a Golden Axe I have on CD-R. I have no clue where it came from, but when I put it into my Turbo CD system, it just hangs there after the FMV sequences. Not sure why, and really not concerned as I really would rather have pressed discs anyway as they are better quality usually and it's just the way I am. I'd buy this just from the video even as I'm a huge Space Harrier fan.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Sparky on November 26, 2011, 01:06:26 PM
i always wonder why some people do not like the thought of these projects... (not just picking on you mrhoobs) legal or not put aside, what is the big deal? people can finally get something physical to play in there systems for next to nothing... should you have to pay to play?.. pffffft
<<this is a paid ad for F-ebay>>
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: incrediblehark on November 26, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
I wanted to get one of those fan-packaged copies of the game, it really deos look nice and professional, but I think if you guys finish this release of the game it can be much better! And I don't think there is any problem with making these boots / "repros" as long as there is no profit to be had from them. I assume we will be basically paying cost for the games.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: TheClash603 on November 27, 2011, 05:05:32 AM
i always wonder why some people do not like the thought of these projects... (not just picking on you mrhoobs) legal or not put aside, what is the big deal? people can finally get something physical to play in there systems for next to nothing... should you have to pay to play?.. pffffft
<<this is a paid ad for F-ebay>>
I can't imagine anyone would object to a game that was never officially released getting a pressed run. That's why Space Fantasy Zone is a perfect first game for this project.
...not that I'd complain about any releases at all.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nat on November 27, 2011, 11:55:55 AM
I didn't mean to imply that the previous run of SFZ should preempt the proposed new run. Those were CD-Rs; these would be pressed discs. The superiority of pressed discs is obvious.
I just wanted to make people aware that SFZ has been available in a nice package for quite some time. The way people were talking about having to draw artwork, etc, it seemed like some folks weren't aware the thing even existed.
As far as music goes, has anyone considered utilizing tracks from the other Fantasy Zone games, like Fantasy Zone 2 (System 16 version) and Super Fantasy Zone?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: mrhaboobi on November 27, 2011, 02:17:03 PM
i always wonder why some people do not like the thought of these projects... (not just picking on you mrhoobs) legal or not put aside, what is the big deal? people can finally get something physical to play in there systems for next to nothing... should you have to pay to play?.. pffffft
<<this is a paid ad for F-ebay>>
My only issues is with the released stuff, not unreleased. :) Just a personal preference, seems wrong, when do you stop, should you copy DVD or VHS or whatever ?? i dunno just my preference to not buy "pirates". Also ive been burnt with pirates previous, so i guess im super cautious now. Sapphire comes to mind ( i was lucky i didnt get burnt by that ).. What i find funny is hardcore games collectors i know who HATE pirates, but if its a music CD then its fine for them to buy booties.. i dont understand that :)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 27, 2011, 02:18:38 PM
BTW, when making the artwork for this...there is a high quality scan from a Satoshi Urushihara art book you could use. It doesn't have the logo, but its a lot less compressed and grainy that other stuff I've seen.
BTW, when making the artwork for this...there is a high quality scan from a Satoshi Urushihara art book you could use. It doesn't have the logo, but its a lot less compressed and grainy that other stuff I've seen.
BTW, when making the artwork for this...there is a high quality scan from a Satoshi Urushihara art book you could use. It doesn't have the logo, but its a lot less compressed and grainy that other stuff I've seen.
Unless I've been hearing things all this time, there are two stage tunes that alternate every few levels. They sound almost the same, but are different.
Yep - I figured track 3 (used in stages 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8 ) and track 8 (used in stages 3 and 6) were close enough to being the same song to not be worth mentioning.
Using tracks from the Fantasy Zone games, or making lighthearted Space Harrier songs is the plan, but no just straight rips of those songs from the Hucard, arcade, etc. Preferably they'd have to be some kind of spruced up versions, with more of a redbook audio sound that matches up with the tracks already there.
Exactly. We could snag tunes from Super Fantasy Zone or something, but they'd stick out like a sore thumb against the existing tracks.
My only issues is with the released stuff, not unreleased. :) Just a personal preference, seems wrong, when do you stop, should you copy DVD or VHS or whatever ??
Released or unreleased in irrelevant; Sega still owns the Space Harrier and Fantasy Zone franchises and Interchannel (NEC Avenue) still owns the game code, so it's still technically wrong to make copies. Here's why copying these games won't cause me any sleepless nights - they're all old, out of print, commercially unavailable, and being sold at cost (more likely a loss), so the original rights owners aren't being financially hurt in any way.
BTW, when making the artwork for this...there is a high quality scan from a Satoshi Urushihara art book you could use. It doesn't have the logo, but its a lot less compressed and grainy that other stuff I've seen.
I think that's the same pic I was working with, but thanks for posting it up.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 28, 2011, 06:06:02 AM
BTW, when making the artwork for this...there is a high quality scan from a Satoshi Urushihara art book you could use. It doesn't have the logo, but its a lot less compressed and grainy that other stuff I've seen.
OK, so that was an exaggeration, but Urushihara is well-known for hentai imagery featuring sizeable, shiny (almost plastic-looking) breasts.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 28, 2011, 08:13:01 AM
He's obsessed with boobs. There is no question there. As far as I've seen though he has no size preference at all. He draws them in all sizes.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on January 02, 2012, 11:14:07 AM
Alright, Necro, first sample track sent. Check your PMs.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: BenG76 on January 02, 2012, 11:31:59 AM
I am down for your release here. Also would love to snag any translated RPG in the future. Cant wait to see the finished product.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Retrocool on January 04, 2012, 02:16:13 PM
i can neither say yes or no to buying the games. not necessarily the games listed (except maybe Might & Magic III)
I definitely would love to see some translation of some games like Macross 2036, Macross: Eternal LoveSong and Snatcher + Pilot Disk...
But this is just me.... .
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 06:44:41 AM
No, I did not read all 13 pages of this thread, so please feel free to cut me down and tell me how all of this has already been said 100 times.
Considering there are only 500 each of most of those games in existence minus however many have been lost over the decades (in English), I think an unofficial second print would be great. Run them on a press. Make them indistinguishable except for a clear and unmoveable "SECOND PRINT" notation on the disc and in the instructions.
According to Steve Garwood, the rarest ones (500 or less) are Might & Magic 3, Godzilla, Super Air Zonk, Bonk 3 CD, Dynastic Hero, Cotton, and Beyond Shadowgate. (I imagine Exile II and Dungeon Explorer II follow close behind ... but then Ex2 might be tricky because of the sleeve)
Pick one title. Do between 300-500 copies. Sell them at a slight profit to cover other expenses that might occur. (Also the excess cash could be used to fund the second game while the first one is still selling.) No one gets paid except for people who provide graphic design, programming, and other services (English translation and manual perhaps for SFZ). All the excess money stays in an account for the next project, etc.
My credit decent and available. If you guys are serious about that sort of thing, I'd be willing to bank roll a decent sum up front.
I like the idea of starting with an English project version of Space Fantasy Zone or a reprint of Dynastic. Might and Magic 3 and Shadowgate might be a tad more expensive because of the enclosed map/posters and larger jewel cases.
Another thing, I doubt NEC or Hudson or even Konami is going to notice or even care about 300+ copies of a 20 year old obsolete medium. And if they do ... the worst they can do is issue a cease and desist and confiscate existing stock and remaining finances. I'm willing to take the chance.
Ok, so go ahead and tear my post to shreds.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 28, 2012, 06:48:31 AM
lol. Im not gonna tear your post to shreds. I actually like it. I think with Necro handling Space Fantasy Zone, and me possibly doing something, if someone else like you chose yet another one to do, it would be awesome. Have you considered the english translations of Xak III, Ys IV, or Startling Odyssey II?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 06:54:01 AM
There's a Startling Odyssey II patch???? Gimme!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 28, 2012, 07:01:55 AM
If someone hasn't hooked you up by tonight, I will get it to you. :) PM me so I dont forget.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 07:03:04 AM
Ys IV Might be tricky since Falcom is now doing an in-house remake for the PS Vita (Ys IV: The Forest of Selceta). I'm sure Xseed will snatch it up. Could draw more attention than we want. And really, with 300 copies, how much attention do we need?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MotherGunner on January 28, 2012, 07:12:14 AM
Why SFZ first? I'd imagine people would actually want to play a GOOD game like Dynastic Hero or Even Dracula X first.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 28, 2012, 07:13:47 AM
Why SFZ first? I'd imagine people would actually want to play a GOOD game like Dynastic Hero or Even Dracula X first.
I believe it got the most votes in the poll. Since it was never officially released and all.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MotherGunner on January 28, 2012, 07:15:58 AM
Yea but Fudoh had some copies out there right? I mean maybe it's just me since I don't really enjoy games with Space Harrier style controls (except for Afterburner). I mean if the effort is going in behind a quality reprint might as well do it for a quality game IMHO. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 28, 2012, 07:18:41 AM
Yeah, but majority rules I guess. I will buy it, or a couple. Cuz I want more to come from it. :) So you should too! :)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MotherGunner on January 28, 2012, 07:19:33 AM
For sure I would! =) ..and quick! more votes on DH!
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 07:27:15 AM
Dynastic would be fine. But I need to know who'd seriously want to work on this before I throw a thousand dollars plus around. I have an original Dynastic. I could practically do that one by myself. Just need to find a press that could replicate the booklet and disc art.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 28, 2012, 07:30:22 AM
If you divide the cost up by the amount of discs made, I am sure you will find it easy to get rid of the pressed games right here in the forums. :) I for one would buy a couple.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 07:43:44 AM
Anyone else out there have Dynastic? Might need a better back insert scan than mine can provide. (Has some wear from switching cases over the decades)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 07:45:52 AM
I can do the following myself: Dynastic, Shadowgate, Bonk 3 CD, Dungeon Explorer II, Exile 2 (minus sleeve - mine is pretty rough), Might & Magic 3. Wish I'd never sold my Super Air Zonk. Never owned Godzilla or Cotton (Might need assistance with those two).
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 28, 2012, 07:47:44 AM
Are you saying you are going to scan all those yourself, or look into getting some booties pressed?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 07:54:23 AM
I have all of those (except Zonk, Cotton, and Godzilla ... I never should've sold Zonk). I'll just have to be very ginger when pulling apart the booklets for scanning. I have no intention to burn anything. If I can find professional pressing and printing services, however, I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MotherGunner on January 28, 2012, 03:10:30 PM
Wouldn't the professional printing company also do the insert scanning themselves?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 03:49:29 PM
Probably, but I could do back inserts myself if it ends up being cheaper. (I have a wonderful graphic designer and access to a college art department at my disposal. They'd be pretty close to perfect)
I'm slightly worried I'd get fined, but I really doubt anyone would care/notice two decades ex-post-facto. I'll find someway to put in discreet watermarks so they don't get confused with originals (and remove original copyright info), but it will still practically double the number of available units on the market. Aside from fine print jargon, they'd be practically indistinguishable. I bet it will drive the prices down on a lot of those games. (I'll repeat: I can't do Godzilla, Super ZOnk, or Cotton since I don't ahve those 3 ... and I can't do Bonk 3CD unless my local friend decides to sell/trade it back to me *grumble* for an exorbitant profit I'm sure)
I think it might be a good idea to start with Dynastic. I'd want to charge just a little over cost, so i can pay people to start putting together graphic design/translation work for one of the imports like SO2 or SFZ. (Volunteers are fine, but people seem to work more efficiently when they're getting paid)
Question: Does US Terraforming count as one of the rare ones?
And who here found a pressing company that could do 500 copies for a thousand? And would ratio still work at 300 copies for $600?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on January 28, 2012, 04:06:01 PM
Probably, but I could do back inserts myself if it ends up being cheaper. (I have a wonderful graphic designer and access to a college art department at my disposal. They'd be pretty close to perfect)
I'm slightly worried I'd get fined, but I really doubt anyone would care/notice two decades ex-post-facto. I'll find someway to put in discreet watermarks so they don't get confused with originals (and remove original copyright info), but it will still practically double the number of available units on the market. Aside from fine print jargon, they'd be practically indistinguishable. I bet it will drive the prices down on a lot of those games. (I'll repeat: I can't do Godzilla, Super ZOnk, or Cotton since I don't ahve those 3 ... and I can't do Bonk 3CD unless my local friend decides to sell/trade it back to me *grumble* for an exorbitant profit I'm sure)
I think it might be a good idea to start with Dynastic. I'd want to charge just a little over cost, so i can pay people to start putting together graphic design/translation work for one of the imports like SO2 or SFZ. (Volunteers are fine, but people seem to work more efficiently when they're getting paid)
Question: Does US Terraforming count as one of the rare ones?
And who here found a pressing company that could do 500 copies for a thousand? And would ratio still work at 300 copies for $600?
You need to talk to Arkhan or Old Rover regarding a pressing facility.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 28, 2012, 04:17:51 PM
Still waiting for someone to jump out and scream at me for conspiring to commit crimes against humanity. I'll ask them. You sure they won't run me off for asking about games like Dynastic that already exist? (Guess all I can do is try)
This is exactly the kind of thing I asked TZD to do for MAG1, but then that was a decade ago now.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on January 28, 2012, 08:12:30 PM
OK, let me explain how to properly jack other people's shit.
As someone who has a lot of legit and non-legit stuff in the way of video games, records, model kits, movies, etc I can tell you there are ways of doing this kind of thing, and ways to not do it.
What you want to do is illegal, but hardly immoral. Your goal should be to piss off as few people as possible, and I'm pretty sure you can do this without issue. Copyright law pretty much relies on someone suing you directly. Avoid pushing people's buttons and they won't care about you pirating an ancient game nobody gives a shit about.
First off, don't go to a CD manufacturer and say, "Here is someone else's complete retail product, which is now a valuable collectible. Could you please blatantly pirate hundreds of copies for me? I need you to scan the manual, the CD, everything. Thanks!" You don't even have to actually talk to someone there to know they aren't supposed to do that. Just get a copy of their terms of service. You need to deliver them an ISO and a PDF. That's it. As far as they know, you made it.
Secondly, file all the numbers off it. Remove all the copyright info. This seems counterintuitive to some people at first, but its one thing to steal someone's shit, its another to say they made the thing, to say that this fake thing came from them, when it didn't.
Third, make it IMPOSSIBLE to confuse with the real thing. Don't be "subtle" at all. Put something like "Fan Produced Unofficial Product" on every single page, the CD, everything. Also, don't produce crap like obi or reply cards because, by nature, only legit products have such things. You need to make is painfully obvious that this is NOT the real thing. Everyone who buys it needs to understand it is fake fake fake. It doesn't have to be ugly at all, but it has to be PROMINENT. If you hide it, at all, the eBay re-sellers will hide it completely.
Its absolutely impossible that a few dozen of these things won't end up on eBay for stupid prices. Hell, recently a forum member here bought up all the leftover fake Sapphires, ones that didn't even have cases, and had misprinted CDs, GAVE THEM AWAY FOR FREE and STILL they are showing up on eBay for actual money. This was Sapphire too. Most US collectors are too obsessed with paying $100 for Bomberman 93 to even know that Sapphire exists. A boot of something like Dynastic Hero...these f*ckers will be on eBay, and they will be $100 each. And hey, that's fine, there's nothing you can do about it. What you can assure though is that nobody who can read will think this is a real product. The Sapphire boots were incredibly authentic looking. DON'T DO THIS. :)
Here is an example of a bootleg album I have:
This is the original LP of New Order BBC Radio 1 Live In Concert:
(http://bandhits.co.uk/img/p/952-1777-large.jpg)
This concert LP was not released for sale in the US. It did come out in the UK on CD and LP, but it was quite heavily edited. Someone besides the BBC also recorded the concert (the quality sucks) and they made it a 2LP so the entire thing with all the idiotic between-song banter and profanity that results from being pumped full of drugs. In fact, "Pumped full of Drugs" would have been a good name for this, but they used that for the concert video instead.
Who is going to be pissed off about this product? Nobody. Meanwhile, the fans get what they want from it. This sort of thing is VERY common with bootleg live releases.
Another example: Old school anime fan subs.
Back in the early/mid 90s when the US anime industry was almost non-existent there was a huge tape trading scene in the American fan community. These people were true heroes. If there was a show people were dying to see (ie: Gundam) they would spend the $800 on the import laserdiscs for the entire series, find a translator, and made fansubs of the series. They would usually use a nice LD deck, a TelevEyes/Pro, and an Amiga (later, Sub Station Alpha in Windows 95) to make S-VHS "masters" which would then go to regional distributors who would duplicate to standard VHS and bring the stuff to conventions or accept mail order for only the price of the tapes and shipping.
Ok, so its an anarchical-synidcaist utopia, right? Well, the problem is that once these tapes were out there they could be duplicated forever. Meanwhile at the "normal" scifi and comic conventions the bootleggers who roamed those places, and had some of the largest booths, would duplicate the shit with fake covers and charge as much as $40 per tape. They didn't make the show, they didn't translate the show, they just skipped right to the "profit" stage...f*ck those guys.
However, all was not lost. If someone bought one of these tapes the first thing they say when they played it was a message put there by the actual fansubber, layed right over the opening credits, saying, "Hey, this is a fan sub. Not for resale. If you payed for it you got RIPPED OFF. Contact us@ouremail.fan.com for info.!" So even if a guy got the sub this way, there is no reason he should get his next one the same way. This steers him away from the bootlegger sleaze and towards the real fans.
Another example of blatant piracy done right: Garage Kits.
Fans of games, anime, Alien, whatever, like to have model kits of their favorite robots, monsters, skanky ninja, whatever. These days you can't sell jack shit without a license, but often times the official products lack something. Usually this is bottom line related.
This is where the garage kit industry comes in. If you want a model of something, and an official one was never made, some small fan circle may have made one themselves, usually from resin. How do they avoid being sued? Keep the numbers limited and don't directly compete with any real products that might exist.
The biggest modeling franchise in the world is Gundam. Bandai makes a SHITLOAD of official kits, but they have a pretty mainstream market in mind. What if you want a model of an MS that was never made? What if it was made, but it was shitty, or too small, or long out of production? Well, a company like G System, SMS, Vicious Project, Neograde, etc might make it for you instead, unlicensed of course. How do they avoid pissing off Bandai? Well, many times it will be in a weird scale. Most everything Gundam from Bandai is 1/60, 1/100, or 1/144 scale, with a few 1/220 stuff and even smaller for ships and things. The garage kit companies generally avoid these scales as to not compete directly. When they do make something 1/100 these days its usually a conversion kit that requires you buy another model, an official one from Bandai, to get the inner frame and other bits. This way Bandai still gets a sale and they have no right to complain.
If you want the one on the right, you have to buy the one on the left first:
Because of these efforts of politeness its easy to get hundreds of unlicensed Gundam models, and the end result is that the hardcore scene is entirely dependent on the legit and the bootleg. The most impressive Gundam kits ever, at this point, are mostly garage kits now. The "Real EX-S", for example, is the best f*cking thing ever. Bandai could never make something LIKE THIS (http://www.g-system-shop.com/product_info.php?scale_id=9&products_id=110) and thats OK in their book. Being 1/35 scale it takes up an entire corner of your house, it requires a huge amount of skill to build, and it costs $2,225. Everyone wins.
The other important thing about garage kits, and I suggest you follow suit, is to make them all in one limited batch, take preorders, and sell them all out at once. Most garage kits sold at shows in Japan are limited to 200 pieces and once they are gone they are gone.
Lastly, I would HIGHLY suggest you don't do Dynastic Hero, Bonk CD, etc. As fun as it would be to erode the value of the originals, these products did see an official release. Space Fantasy Zone was NEVER released, ANYWHERE. US, Japan, anywhere. Therefore, while your bootleg would still be a bootleg, it wouldn't be competing with anyone's real deal. Make garage kits of Gundam that Bandai never made mainstream versions of, to use an analogy. I think the world at large is more badly in need of playing unreleased games, prototypes, and fan translations than it is of playing Airzonk CD...which sucks anyway.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 29, 2012, 03:28:05 AM
You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. Now see, true power is derived from a mandate of the masses.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jperryss on January 29, 2012, 03:32:22 AM
You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. Now see, true power is derived from a mandate of the masses.
Not from some farcical aquatic ceremony?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 29, 2012, 04:00:11 AM
If I went around claiming I owned SFZ because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd lock me up.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: mlbfan10 on January 29, 2012, 04:02:55 AM
Are these just going to be in the CD format?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 29, 2012, 04:14:44 AM
I can't think of any other format they'd be in (pressed, NOT burned). Talk to Arkhan at Aetherbyte if you're interested in reproduced Hus. Please LMK if I'm misunderstanding your question.
Zeta, the only problem with SFZ is all the extra production work. Dynastic I can virtually do by myself. I can't do all the graphic design and ROM patching work for SFZ. (I don't know how to do a lot of that stuff, and between my job and my post-grad work, I'm not sure where I'll find time to learn.)
I could do the 6 existing "rare" SCDs I own, and it sounds like the pressing price would be cheap. I can swing $600 to $700 per run until I make back cost. (Come to think of it, I have two friends, both within 2 hours of me, that have the other 4 rare SCDs)
Even beyond SFZ, I don't have originals of Xak 3 and Startling Odyssey 2. I don't have access to the booklets, or inserts, or any of the graphics. The Ys 4 is the most tempting of all (for me personally - my very first import ever. I was 14.). But with Xseed virtually guaranteed to pick it up for Vita this year (and sweet Jesus I can't wait), that might really run into problems. Plus with games like Xak and Ys, the translators are around here somewhere, are't they? I guess I'd have to contract for royalties.
And BTW Zeta, you have no idea how much I'd LOVE to drag down the overpricing on those ten games. (Didn't this convo start on a price gouging thread anyway?)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: BigusSchmuck on January 29, 2012, 04:39:12 AM
This point may have been made already, but I would suggest pressing games that we know for certain haven't been released on these newer consoles. As much as I would love to see Cotton and Bonk 3 (just look at the ebay prices on these bad boys, 200-400 dollars good lord) make it to the presser, these games most certainly have semi recent ports done to them and could result in a Cease and Desist order. Speaking of the above, I believe Beyond Shadowgate hasn't gotten a modern port, so that may be something to shoot for.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: mlbfan10 on January 29, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
Yes answerd my question. I was wondering if it was just cd or hucard was going to be made.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 29, 2012, 05:45:07 AM
Bigus, quit discouraging me. I'm trying to build up my courage to commit illegal acts that will make me a hero among the Turbo community. Anyway, they can't cease and desist me if the stock is already dispersed. At that point, they can fine me. Anyway, I figure I'll get as far as the pressing company, and I'll be shot down there.
Now here's an idea. How would everyone feel about Beyond Shadowgate in a single disc jewel case? It would come with out the (ugly) poster. There'd be no way to confuse it with the original then.
By the way Bigus, is your name a reference to Life of Brian?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on January 29, 2012, 06:23:29 AM
Zeta, the only problem with SFZ is all the extra production work. Dynastic I can virtually do by myself. I can't do all the graphic design and ROM patching work for SFZ. (I don't know how to do a lot of that stuff, and between my job and my post-grad work, I'm not sure where I'll find time to learn.)
Someone, I think it was maybe Necromancer, has already worked on SFZ. Maybe it was earlier in this thread? Anyway, you are over-thinking this. You don't need to make a 32 page instruction book with original art or anything. Just make...something. Any number of people here would be glad to make a PDF for you.
Quote
Even beyond SFZ, I don't have originals of Xak 3 and Startling Odyssey 2. I don't have access to the booklets, or inserts, or any of the graphics. The Ys 4 is the most tempting of all (for me personally - my very first import ever. I was 14.). But with Xseed virtually guaranteed to pick it up for Vita this year (and sweet Jesus I can't wait), that might really run into problems. Plus with games like Xak and Ys, the translators are around here somewhere, are't they? I guess I'd have to contract for royalties.
You don't need originals, just have someone send you the ISOs. I'm not sure if you know this but bit-for-bit perfect archives of every single PCE/TG game ever have been available on the internet for years, even the fully patched and translated stuff. All ripping the games yourself is going to do is introduce the possibility of error.
And as for paying the translators...I appreciate your enthusiasm for this project, I really really do, but you still don't get it. You don't pay the translators shit. You don't even contact them. You need as few people involved as possible, nobody is allowed compensation whatsoever (including yourself, I'd aim to break slightly less than even). You will always be a thief, but you should be out for the appendix, not the kidneys, and if you can do it without them even knowing, all the better.
The goal should be to bang these f*ckers out, distribute them, and then end the project with as few people involved, and as little paper trail as possible.
BTW, I see that Cotton is starting to creep into this conversation. This makes NO SENSE to me at all. There are many copies of this game in the PCE version, all of which are legit products, and they are reasonably priced. The PCE version has full English narration too, so the bootleg would just be senseless piracy. Bootleg something worth bootlegging and stop getting hung up on the pathetically small US library with its bad dubs and horrendous cover art. If you are out to just make something great more available, It makes a lot more sense to pirate something like Nexzr, which is way better than Cotton and also way more expensive. IMO the scene needs something like the Sapphire release, and not just a cheaper version of a game that sucks just because its overpriced on eBay. Think "desert island discs" here. If you could only have 5 Turbo games, would Bonk 3 CD actually be one of them? I f*cking hope not.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: nectarsis on January 29, 2012, 06:28:33 AM
Bigus, quit discouraging me. I'm trying to build up my courage to commit illegal acts that will make me a hero among the Turbo community.
He's not discouraging, just giving a different way to go. Plus if you're only doing this for being a "hero in the Turbo community", doesn't seem to be the best reason....
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on January 29, 2012, 10:29:05 AM
I can't think of any other format they'd be in (pressed, NOT burned). Talk to Arkhan at Aetherbyte if you're interested in reproduced Hus. Please LMK if I'm misunderstanding your question.
Zeta, the only problem with SFZ is all the extra production work. Dynastic I can virtually do by myself. I can't do all the graphic design and ROM patching work for SFZ. (I don't know how to do a lot of that stuff, and between my job and my post-grad work, I'm not sure where I'll find time to learn.)
I could do the 6 existing "rare" SCDs I own, and it sounds like the pressing price would be cheap. I can swing $600 to $700 per run until I make back cost. (Come to think of it, I have two friends, both within 2 hours of me, that have the other 4 rare SCDs)
Even beyond SFZ, I don't have originals of Xak 3 and Startling Odyssey 2. I don't have access to the booklets, or inserts, or any of the graphics. The Ys 4 is the most tempting of all (for me personally - my very first import ever. I was 14.). But with Xseed virtually guaranteed to pick it up for Vita this year (and sweet Jesus I can't wait), that might really run into problems. Plus with games like Xak and Ys, the translators are around here somewhere, are't they? I guess I'd have to contract for royalties.
And BTW Zeta, you have no idea how much I'd LOVE to drag down the overpricing on those ten games. (Didn't this convo start on a price gouging thread anyway?)
Just go with Dicount Chang's pressing factory, & all will be as right as rain. Just ask Arky, he highly recomends them! BTW, howdee do, who are the Britain's, my name is Dennis, & I'm 37! Oh, & there's some lovely filth over here!
Anyways, one idea I had if you go thru with this, is to shrink the artwork a bit on everything, just have a border around the artwork on the manual, the cd, etc. As Zeta said, I wouldn't make things look ugly, but yeah, you deffinitly want it to look signifacantly different from the real thing.
Yeah, it's Necro, & there's some guys working on more tunes for SFZ. I don't have any time to help in that regard at the moment, since I'm knee deep in Jungle Bros., & it has quite a large soundtrack.....partially due to the way I'm planning it. In hindsight, I've had thoughts on how to keep the number of tracks down, to atleast make sure I don't hold up the train on this one. Anyways, it may be awhile on the SFZ music front unless me or Arky(I think he offered to help as well) have more time, so I would hold off on SFZ.
On Ys 4, I would also hold off, not so much cuz of Xseed & Ys Celeta: Sea of Tree's, I don't really think it'll be a problem. I mean heck, this Ys 4 is going to be quite different from the previous 3 released games. There will obviously be alot of the same characters & locations, but, I just can't imagine Xseed caring. Ofcoarse, I could always ask one of the employee's there that I kind of know. See what his thoughts are on that(he's a HUGE Ys fan, & I know he'd love to have a US version of DoY pressed as well). But, there's still the chance of an english dub.
Xak 3, AFAIK, is totally done. There is no voice acting IIRC. I didn't play thru it much, I consider the original game...kinda buggy personally.
Ofcoarse, I'm not telling you what to do, this is just mindless ramblings from ..........something something, blah, etc.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: BigusSchmuck on January 29, 2012, 11:24:17 AM
Bigus, quit discouraging me. I'm trying to build up my courage to commit illegal acts that will make me a hero among the Turbo community. Anyway, they can't cease and desist me if the stock is already dispersed. At that point, they can fine me. Anyway, I figure I'll get as far as the pressing company, and I'll be shot down there.
Now here's an idea. How would everyone feel about Beyond Shadowgate in a single disc jewel case? It would come with out the (ugly) poster. There'd be no way to confuse it with the original then.
By the way Bigus, is your name a reference to Life of Brian?
You guessed it. :P Hell, finding a copy of Beyond Shadowgate these days let alone a gouged version has been a challenge. I'm really not trying to discourage you, I'm merely pointing out a pirated press of a game that is 20 years old and hasn't been ported onto new consoles you'll have almost 0 risk invovled pressing it. For an example, the company ICOM is completely gone as they ceased operations in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICOM_Simulations BTW, someone really should port over the DOS version of that old Monty Python game to the PCE. ^^
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mishran on January 29, 2012, 12:42:37 PM
Speaking of ICOM, it would appear that Wikipedia states that ICOM's game portfolio is currently owned by Infinite Ventures. Perhaps I missed something, but they don't seem to still exist either. Who might own the rights to ICOM's games now? If nobody holds them, perhaps it might be even more possible for Beyond Shadowgate to be pressed without legal trouble. Anyone wish to chime in?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on January 29, 2012, 02:18:07 PM
Yeah I've played all the fan patches except Startling Odyssey (didn't realize it was actually finished).
Bigus, I want to ask about your wife, but I'm afraid you're married in real life ... and I don't accidentally want to throw insults around. (I was being facetious about the "discouraging" part. Pity text messages don't carry much context :-D )
For you guys in the UK, I'm doing distance studies through UEL and I might be there in person for a few weeks in May (just before they shut down for the Olympics). Don't know how far away from London any of you are though.
A Bonk 3 CD just went for $180 and a Super Zonk just went for $245 on everyone's favorite website today. That's what should be illegal.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: kiketonto on January 31, 2012, 05:13:48 AM
I don't care about the game you choose but please, I want a copy. All options seems great to me
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on January 31, 2012, 05:19:59 AM
lol, the pressing company doesn't even have the means to test the games. I doubt US pressing houses have a Turbo Grafx-16 CD unit
and I doubt they'd have any idea about it anyways. They won't know. Let's be real here.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on January 31, 2012, 05:25:12 AM
I ended up speakikng with the dude that sold those Sapphire discs to BMW. He told me that I needed to talk to a tech guy before taking on a project, so that they would know what or how to create the discs, because they most likely wouldnt work if I just sent them the project disc and had them replicate it. Is this true, or total BS? Im asking cause I really dont know, lol. But getting ready to move forward on something, and dont want to end up just throwing money out the window. HAHA.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Arkhan on January 31, 2012, 05:58:00 AM
I ended up speakikng with the dude that sold those Sapphire discs to BMW. He told me that I needed to talk to a tech guy before taking on a project, so that they would know what or how to create the discs, because they most likely wouldnt work if I just sent them the project disc and had them replicate it. Is this true, or total BS? Im asking cause I really dont know, lol. But getting ready to move forward on something, and dont want to end up just throwing money out the window. HAHA.
It's wrong and total BS.
Replication is just that. Replication.
All the replicas will operate exactly like the original one that you supply them.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Shrapnoid on January 31, 2012, 07:02:19 AM
Ummm... Far be it from me to be a party pooper but, aren't we *not* supposed to talk about stuff like this around here?
I mean what if Aaron really did get into trouble over this being discussed *here* at this forum?
As much interest as I have in this subject, I wouldn't want to feel like I'd been a part of that.
I don't know Aaron as well as a lot of you do but, I've talked to him some in the past and he seems to be a pretty good guy and I don't want to see anything happen to his place on the web so, wouldn't it be better and more considerate to take this whole thing to a forum where this sort of thing is talked about all of time?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on January 31, 2012, 07:05:06 AM
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on February 02, 2012, 03:24:46 PM
Blood Gear. Translation patch. Win.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 24, 2012, 04:22:54 PM
Well, it looks like somebody already beat us to the punch. Someone whose link I will not share, is selling Space Fantasy Zone allegedly with fixed cd tracks so that they loop correctly, etc. However, I doubt they got more tunes in the game, which is desperately needed. Also, they're hideously expensive! They're deffinitly making a prophet :P Also, they have Bonknut's/Tom's NES Mega Man for PC Engine......which is also ridiculously exspensive, not to mention unfinished. You'd think they would've waited till it was done, but, I guess they need the moneyz :roll:
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on February 24, 2012, 05:01:58 PM
That's the same guy I was talking about. Looks like he made more, but I was told he does burns and not pressed discs
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Sadler on February 24, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
If you're talking about anime4ever, I think his Sapphire discs are pressed, but SFZ and Rockman are CDR's.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Frank_fjs on February 24, 2012, 06:13:04 PM
Well, it looks like somebody already beat us to the punch. Someone whose link I will not share, is selling Space Fantasy Zone allegedly with fixed cd tracks so that they loop correctly, etc.
That's nothing new; he's been selling those for four or five years now. I have one. It's a really nice package, but as others have mentioned, it's just a CDR.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 24, 2012, 07:37:39 PM
Ok, for some reason I got the impression they were pressed. The packaging does look nice, I'll give him that.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: xelement5x on February 25, 2012, 11:02:39 AM
I emailed him about a week ago and he told me that the SFZ discs are burned, however the Sapphire discs are pressed like other have mentioned.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on February 25, 2012, 11:03:36 AM
Yeah I had one of the Sapphires once.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on February 25, 2012, 12:20:58 PM
I was under the assumption that SFZ was sold out at anime4ever ages ago.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jayamine on February 25, 2012, 12:22:32 PM
It was. Mustve reprinted it
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on February 27, 2012, 03:05:30 AM
..... Space Fantasy Zone allegedly with fixed cd tracks so that they loop correctly, etc. However, I doubt they got more tunes in the game, which is desperately needed.
Right, and the 'fixed tracks' are just corrected lead-ins like you'll find on most of the isos floating around nowadays; it still has the truncated tunes and single song for almost every level.
This project is still alive..... or it's at least not forgotten. It's looking like I'll have complete artwork done and ready to go shortly, but I'm at others mercy for when (if) new tracks are added.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 28, 2012, 07:06:14 AM
I really hope the peeps that were able to start on it come thru, I think they were going in the right direction. Otherwise, I just think it's going to be quite some time for me to contribute. Not to mention, I'm tempted to work on Mega Man tunes for Tom's project, as I've always wanted to redo those tunes, but I gotta hold back, I just don't have time. Somewhere down the line, I hope to atleast contribute a song or 2 to this. Though, my original plan may not work, so I would maybe have to redo some FZ songs completely from scratch.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on August 03, 2012, 09:50:38 AM
Figured I would give this a bump to stir interest, since it is looking like it's closer to becoming a possibility. :)
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DarkKobold on August 03, 2012, 10:30:26 AM
Can't you just burn your own CDs? I mean, if it isn't legit, why go through all the effort of buying a non-legit copy?
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: thesteve on August 03, 2012, 10:35:33 AM
because pressed discs are more reliable
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 03, 2012, 11:57:49 AM
Can't you just burn your own CDs? I mean, if it isn't legit, why go through all the effort of buying a non-legit copy?
THANK YOU.
Seriously, the effort people will put into fake shit is just bizzare. It reminds me of the old kit for the VW Beetle that would give you a Rolls Royce grill. WTF is the point?
Well, this is pretty funny:
(http://www.oldbug.com/061604 146.jpg)
But I don't think people are making fake spine cards because they think they are funny.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: geise on August 03, 2012, 12:20:44 PM
Haha! That image is awesome! :clap:
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on August 03, 2012, 01:38:04 PM
Exactly what I am saying. Less wear and tear on the lasers too.
Is there any evidence or reasoning for this? I've heard this a ton on forums before - however, I'd love to see someone actually test this. Otherwise, it seems like an old wives tale.
I mean, the laser has a fixed amount of current running through it, regardless of how the CD is made. The order of files on the disc might matter, but I don't see how that is possible to actually check, additionally, what guarantee is there?
Also, while pressed CDs may be more reliable, you can always burn a 2nd, 3rd, or 18th copy of a game, if you keep it on your HD.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on August 03, 2012, 02:16:49 PM
A lot of Duos wont read a cdr.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: T2KFreeker on August 03, 2012, 02:25:03 PM
Only thing I can even come close to bringing up on this is the 3DO. Before anyone starts bitching about what a crap system it is, fine, let's just say for the sake of argument that the games suck. I do know that repeated exposure to burnt CD's starts to wear the Laser out faster to the point that before the laser completely goes out the system won't even read CD-r media at all. Not sure what it means, but sounds like a higher rate of wear and tear. Is it a wives tale? Possibly. I do know that my Turbografx CD system has a way easier time reading pressed CD's over burnt ones, that much is obvious.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: DarkKobold on August 03, 2012, 03:12:11 PM
Only thing I can even come close to bringing up on this is the 3DO. Before anyone starts bitching about what a crap system it is, fine, let's just say for the sake of argument that the games suck. I do know that repeated exposure to burnt CD's starts to wear the Laser out faster to the point that before the laser completely goes out the system won't even read CD-r media at all. Not sure what it means, but sounds like a higher rate of wear and tear. Is it a wives tale? Possibly. I do know that my Turbografx CD system has a way easier time reading pressed CD's over burnt ones, that much is obvious.
I found an interesting thread at Atari Age, same issue addressed.
Lasers don't wear down due to CDR use, they use the same constant power for everything. Drive shafts, motors, gears, etc, may wear down, due to having to re-read poorly burned portions of the disc, or due to a disorganization of data.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 03, 2012, 03:14:22 PM
People say the same thing about the PCE that you are saying about the 3DO. I don't doubt that there is sometimes some difficulty in a pre-CDR machine reading CDRs, I just questioned the relationship between that and the actual physical destruction of the drive. It seems far more likely to me that not being able to read CDRs is an indicator of a system that is about to take its final shit sooner rather than later anyway, and people are wrongly blaming the CDRs.
This is apart from the way black Duos jam with CDRs. This is very real, although very easy to fix also. It also seems to only affect black Duos...maybe the SuperCDROM2 as well?
For what it's worth, obviously pressed CDs themselves are more reliable than CDRs and for that reason I would be interested in some for cheap. I have zero interest in fake manuals of games that were never released and therefore never had real manuals, fake obi, fake reply cards, etc. That shit is just pointless.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2012, 03:15:29 PM
The lasers lens has to work harder to focus correctly on a cd-r, especially a short strategy disc. The lens assembly is still moving parts where the "eye" as it were, moves up and down to focus the beam. It takes it more effort to get into focus to read data from something that doesn't reflect that well, and short strategy doesn't most of the time. Short strategy media is newer and cheaper. Even normal older pc cd-rom drives that predate short strategy somewhat have issues reading the stuff. Obviously something that is forced to work harder to read something not within its original spec is not going to last as long.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: TheOldMan on August 03, 2012, 03:18:52 PM
Quote
Is there any evidence or reasoning for this? I've heard this a ton on forums before - however, I'd love to see someone actually test this. Otherwise, it seems like an old wives tale.
I mean, the laser has a fixed amount of current running through it, regardless of how the CD is made.
It's been discussed to death already. Here's the reasoning: Pressed CD's are made with a metal layer, which is highly reflective. CD-R's are made with a dye layer, which is less reflective. Older CD drives expect high reflectivity discs; they have problems detecting the signal from CD-R's. The signal loss due to the low reflectivity means a higher read failure rate. This, in turn, means the cd player has to do more re-tries to get a valid read. Thus, more wear and tear on the drive.
This is the same exact reason older cd players will not read CD-R discs. It's a known problem, tested to death by manufacturers when CD-R's first became available.
(You want the technical details? The zero-crossing detector amp in the lens assembly doesn't receive enough light from the less reflective cd-r's to reliably detect the pit transitions - not enough voltage from the detector to saturate the amp base. No, the amp isn't adjustable, either, though folks have tried.)
You wanna use CD-R's in your system, be my guest. Make note the BlueBMW and thesteve have replacement lasers, though, cause you'll need one. Soon.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KingDrool on August 03, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
My Duo was brand new, out of the box, purchased from TZD about twelve years ago. I put in a couple CDRs and it immediately took a shit on me.
Proof? Maybe not. But I will never use a CDR in a Duo again.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on August 03, 2012, 03:50:59 PM
What PP and theOldman said are what I have thought to be true. I would grudgingly test this theory on my US Turbo CD that is a CD-R virgin, but I am not going to pay to have its lens replaced. Someone would have to donate the repair $$.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Keith Courage on August 03, 2012, 04:38:23 PM
A new lens is only $25.00
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Mathius on August 03, 2012, 04:50:58 PM
Is there any evidence or reasoning for this? I've heard this a ton on forums before - however, I'd love to see someone actually test this. Otherwise, it seems like an old wives tale.
I mean, the laser has a fixed amount of current running through it, regardless of how the CD is made.
It's been discussed to death already. Here's the reasoning: Pressed CD's are made with a metal layer, which is highly reflective. CD-R's are made with a dye layer, which is less reflective. Older CD drives expect high reflectivity discs; they have problems detecting the signal from CD-R's. The signal loss due to the low reflectivity means a higher read failure rate. This, in turn, means the cd player has to do more re-tries to get a valid read. Thus, more wear and tear on the drive.
This is the same exact reason older cd players will not read CD-R discs. It's a known problem, tested to death by manufacturers when CD-R's first became available.
(You want the technical details? The zero-crossing detector amp in the lens assembly doesn't receive enough light from the less reflective cd-r's to reliably detect the pit transitions - not enough voltage from the detector to saturate the amp base. No, the amp isn't adjustable, either, though folks have tried.)
You wanna use CD-R's in your system, be my guest. Make note the BlueBMW and thesteve have replacement lasers, though, cause you'll need one. Soon.
this is mostly correct. the problem is less brightness and more contrast, as the burnt cd still reflects in the "pits" just not as much. it does cause a 0-cross problem making the disk more difficult to read. reduced laser power seems to help quite a bit. the duo laser jam issue is related to the hard gearing and applies to the -r as well
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 03, 2012, 06:49:48 PM
Is there any evidence or reasoning for this? I've heard this a ton on forums before - however, I'd love to see someone actually test this. Otherwise, it seems like an old wives tale.
I mean, the laser has a fixed amount of current running through it, regardless of how the CD is made.
It's been discussed to death already. Here's the reasoning: Pressed CD's are made with a metal layer, which is highly reflective. CD-R's are made with a dye layer, which is less reflective. Older CD drives expect high reflectivity discs; they have problems detecting the signal from CD-R's. The signal loss due to the low reflectivity means a higher read failure rate. This, in turn, means the cd player has to do more re-tries to get a valid read. Thus, more wear and tear on the drive.
This is the same exact reason older cd players will not read CD-R discs. It's a known problem, tested to death by manufacturers when CD-R's first became available.
(You want the technical details? The zero-crossing detector amp in the lens assembly doesn't receive enough light from the less reflective cd-r's to reliably detect the pit transitions - not enough voltage from the detector to saturate the amp base. No, the amp isn't adjustable, either, though folks have tried.)
You wanna use CD-R's in your system, be my guest. Make note the BlueBMW and thesteve have replacement lasers, though, cause you'll need one. Soon.
I already understand all of this but...I'm just not buying it. What I've noticed with PCEs is that if the system loses track of the CDDA it will not come back until it loads again and sends you to the next CDDA track. Because of this you always know when a CD isn't reading right. When it loses track of data it will retry things again, maybe it loads slower, whatever, eventually it usually reads, so you don't always know when data loading isn't working right unless you are very familiar with the game and you know exactly how long everything is supposed to take. You always know when the CDDA drops out though.
Therefore, correct me if I'm wrong, if the game isn't dropping out on CDDA tracks it probably isn't having a very hard time reading the disc, no?
My Duo was brand new, out of the box, purchased from TZD about twelve years ago. I put in a couple CDRs and it immediately took a shit on me.
Proof? Maybe not. But I will never use a CDR in a Duo again.
Certainly not proof. That system had been sitting unused in a box for eight years. It could have partially seized up, it could have been defective from the factory. My first Duo actually was defective from the factory and had to be exchanged a month after I bought it.
I'm not primarily a CD-R user, but I have logged probably 100 hours between my Duo R and my IFU system with no lasers dying. My original US Duo (technically my second one since, as I mentioned, I had to return the first one) played probably 40-60 hours worth of CDRs before I sold it to someone here. This Duo had probably 2000 hours on it since I owned it for 15 years or so before it left my possesion and it worked perfectly when I sold it.
...and do you want to know something even crazier? When I had both a US Duo and a Duo R I noticed that the drive would skip easier in the Duo R so I SWITCHED DRIVES a year or so before I sold it. This means that the laser in my Duo R is the same one I purchased new from Electronics Boutique in late 1992. The same one I beat all those games on over and over again for 15 years before moving it to the Duo R where I then beat many more games, including stuff like Ys IV translated...on a CD-R. All the CDRs I played on the US Duo and the Duo R used the same laser!
So if you want to argue that CDRs kill lasers based on the laser doing more active minute focusing (this is the only wear and tear we are actually talking about, right?) then, fine, sure, but I can tell you that the damage certainly doesn't happen very quickly. At all.
In fact, I'm going to go play something on CDR right now just for the hell of it. I'll let you know when the laser dies.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2012, 07:25:19 PM
This Duo had probably 2000 hours on it since I owned it for 15 years or so before it left my possesion and it worked perfectly when I sold it.
...and do you want to know something even crazier? When I had both a US Duo and a Duo R I noticed that the drive would skip easier in the Duo R so I SWITCHED DRIVES a year or so before I sold it.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Bernie on August 03, 2012, 07:37:52 PM
Zeta, it could be you have just been lucky. Seems some systems were built like tanks and others failed prematurely. Roflmao has a cd rom system thats all original and plays whatever he throws at it. No issues at all. I dunno. Maybe its the luck of the draw.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SamIAm on August 03, 2012, 07:46:00 PM
I play mostly CD-Rs in my Duo, which granted is an RX model and maybe a little better at it, but I've noticed that hiccups where the disc doesn't read properly happen at about the same rate with CD-Rs as with commercial copies.
I agree with what SignOfZeta said about the system's ability to consistently read a CD-R's CDDA tracks being evidence that it can deal with CD-Rs well enough. I've experienced playing CD-Rs on CD players that can't quite handle them, and the symptoms include not just stalling to read the TOC or start the tracks, but also producing crackling noises while playing the disc and occasionally stumbling so hard it can't continue. I've yet to experience that on my Duo whatsoever.
It might be that it takes a DUO slightly more time and effort to locate where certain data begins on a CD-R. Once it finds it, though, it seems to do just fine.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: vestcoat on August 03, 2012, 08:40:20 PM
There's no reason to play burned games on a Duo anyway. It's 2012. Install an emulator, get a Mayflash SNES adapter, plug your HDMI or S-video into your TV, and play those worthless burned discs on a computer where they belong. It's easier than finding CD-R's that are compatible with a Duo and figuring out the perfect burn speed. Anyone hacking it with a stack of CD-R's doesn't need to play them on "original hardware."
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 03, 2012, 09:02:28 PM
There's no reason to play burned games on a Duo anyway. It's 2012. Install an emulator, get a Mayflash SNES adapter, plug your HDMI or S-video into your TV, and play those worthless burned discs on a computer where they belong. It's easier than finding CD-R's that are compatible with a Duo and figuring out the perfect burn speed. Anyone hacking it with a stack of CD-R's doesn't need to play them on "original hardware."
I just burn the discs onto whatever I have laying around using whatever the slowest burn speed is...on a Mac even, using only built in software. Once you burn the disc and put it in the system, do you know what the difference is between the boot and the real thing? Nothing.
Like I said, I'm not primarily a CD-R person. I like having the real game, I like the manuals, all that stuff is important to me. But when I want to play something like Kaze Kiri or Bazaru, I just play a burn...in the same system I play the real stuff in. I'm not interested in emulators.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SamIAm on August 03, 2012, 09:11:00 PM
It may be 2012, but they haven't made an emulator that looks, sounds, and plays 100% identically to real hardware.
Taking out a real game is a pleasure unto itself, but I play CD-Rs of real games that I have anyway just because I don't want to damage the discs. When I close the lid and power the system on, the functionality is identical as far as I can tell. Personally, that's all that's essential.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: 8bitForLife on August 04, 2012, 01:42:26 AM
i couldnt get my rx to read a new cdr of rayxanber III at all but the slowest speed i could burn at was 8x. Only thing i can think of is im burning the game wrong. but it works in magicengine just fine so i think its just my laser or pots need replaced or adjusting.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 04, 2012, 05:26:46 AM
i couldnt get my rx to read a new cdr of rayxanber III at all but the slowest speed i could burn at was 8x. Only thing i can think of is im burning the game wrong. but it works in magicengine just fine so i think its just my laser or pots need replaced or adjusting.
I wouldn't assume that. First of all, keep in mind that your Duo was never designed to read CD-R. Consumer grade CD-R didn't even exist back then. If if reads them, cool, if not, I wouldn't go messing with a system that otherwise works, especially since you don't really know if the discs you are trying to play are any good.
Try making an audio CD with the same computer and media and see if it likes that. If it does, I suspect your formatting is wrong somehow.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: SamIAm on August 04, 2012, 06:13:07 AM
I'm again only drawing from my own experience, but I think that your brand of CD-R and particularly your burner itself are much more important factors than your particular Duo. This is something I've observed over many years, many systems, and many burners. In fact, the burner itself seems to be the key.
Probably the most useful test would be to take a burned CD-R that is verified working great in one person's system and try that same copy in several others'. I'd be willing to bet that the systems themselves, at least across identical models, are much more consistent than they appear now. They all came off the same assembly line, after all. It's all the different CD-R brands, burners, and burning software that have a lot of room for variation.
I burned a ton of Saturn games years ago, with three burners and usually the same brand of CD-R. My two Saturns hated the CDs from two of the burners, to the extent that it was a miracle for either one to boot them. However, from the 3rd drive (a Lite-on) they had absolutely no trouble and no change in performance that I could detect. It only didn't work when I used bottom-of-the-barrel brand discs.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: KnightWarrior on August 04, 2012, 07:31:47 AM
Magic Chase
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Black Tiger on August 04, 2012, 07:49:46 AM
i couldnt get my rx to read a new cdr of rayxanber III at all but the slowest speed i could burn at was 8x. Only thing i can think of is im burning the game wrong. but it works in magicengine just fine so i think its just my laser or pots need replaced or adjusting.
If Magic Engine sees it as the proper game, then you burned it correctly. ME reads the TOC to check which game it has in the drive. So, if ME shows Ray III or whatever you burned, in the drive slot, then it is burned correctly. Your Duo most likely just doesnt like CDr.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: MottZilla on August 04, 2012, 06:05:35 PM
Factory pressed CDs are better. They are more stable and better for reading compared to writable media. However I disagree with the hate for playing CD-Rs. Not everyone can afford to buy a ton of games but they still might want to play the games on the real console. If the system can read the CD-R fine and it is burned correctly there is no difference to you playing the game. It's certainly better than emulation. Emulation can have all sorts of issues such as accuracy and performance. Another thing to consider about stamping new "bootleg" CDs of games is that eventually the original discs will fail. If you can and do make new ones then you can keep on playing. The lifespan of CD-ROMs was once said to be like 100 years but in reality it is probably a lot less.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: Necromancer on August 06, 2012, 04:01:10 AM
Great, another retard discussion about CDRs. Here are the facts: CDs boast superior reflectivity and better long term viability, some Turbob systems will not play any type of CDR, and a bad CDR (poorly written, suffering from dye rot, or whatever) will cause more wear and tear. There is no argument negating these facts, though it's true that you can always burn another disc if it fails, pop in another laser, and minimize wear by paying attention to reading problems and replacing the disc; good luck with the latter when you're playing a game where you're unfamiliar with its loading, or a game like LoX that uses almost no redbook tracks.
Back on topic: for people like Zeta that don't care if a CD is more reliable or about having a nicely printed label, case, and manual (unless it's legit, then it's oddly extremely important) - this project isn't for you. You've had your say, now please move the f*ck on.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: jperryss on August 06, 2012, 04:06:12 AM
Great, another retard discussion about CDRs. Here are the facts: CDs boast superior reflectivity and better long term viability, some Turbob systems will not play any type of CDR, and a bad CDR (poorly written, suffering from dye rot, or whatever) will cause more wear and tear. There is no argument negating these facts, though it's true that you can always burn another disc if it fails, pop in another laser, and minimize wear by paying attention to reading problems and replacing the disc; good luck with the latter when you're playing a game where you're unfamiliar with its loading, or a game like LoX that uses almost no redbook tracks.
Back on topic: for people like Zeta that don't care if a CD is more reliable or about having a nicely printed label, case, and manual (unless it's legit, then it's oddly extremely important) - this project isn't for you. You've had your say, now please move the f*ck on.
Well put. Some of us just want something nice on the shelf. I focus on complete versions (no box) on hueys AND CD/SCDs for the same reason.
Title: Re: Prospect of Making Some OMG RAREZ! Game Boots
Post by: geise on August 06, 2012, 05:11:50 AM
Wow...this has turned into the "Prospect of Derailing a Thread about OMG RAREZ! Game Boots"
Well, I put Space Fantasy Zone and Dynastic Hero in a tie. :D