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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: BigusSchmuck on November 06, 2011, 08:38:19 AM
Title: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 06, 2011, 08:38:19 AM
I heard there was some work being done for a NES emulator for the PC-Engine/Turbo-Grafx, was curious if anyone knew any more information about it.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 06, 2011, 09:03:32 AM
Tom was doing that. He was emulating certain games, like Mega Man / Mega Man 2, and some other stuff. Haven't heard much about any of that in awhile.
It wasn't like a "plays any nes rom you want" thing.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: nodtveidt on November 06, 2011, 09:23:34 AM
I don't think it was emulation though, I think it was modifying the binary to make it run on the PC Engine.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 06, 2011, 09:59:27 AM
Well whatever it was, its probably dead now.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 06, 2011, 12:59:38 PM
Thats a shame, would have been funny to say a 8-bit system is emulation yet another 8-bit system. ^^
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: nodtveidt on November 06, 2011, 01:44:41 PM
I wrote a CHIP-8 emulator for the PCE... but it was broken and didn't work. I then rebuilt it on the Nintendo DS and got it to work, but planned on putting it back on the PCE where I started it. I never did get to it though. I should some day. :D
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 06, 2011, 02:17:58 PM
The only thing the PCE should emulate is the MSX.
yeah!
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: nodtveidt on November 06, 2011, 02:39:23 PM
Make it happen! lol :D
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Edmond Dantes on November 06, 2011, 04:11:27 PM
This is... an interesting concept, but I can't see much practical value in running an NES emulator on a PC Engine.
I'd rather NES games actually be ported. Specifically, we need Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 (PC-E got part one... why not the rest?)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 07, 2011, 12:24:05 AM
I have roms from the early 90s of NES games working on the PCE. Some even have altered music. SMB has PCE sounding music instead of straight ported music.
So, this was back in 1993. It's more than doable now. I doubt anyone will take the time to accomplish this.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on November 07, 2011, 08:16:17 AM
This is... an interesting concept, but I can't see much practical value in running an NES emulator on a PC Engine.
I'd rather NES games actually be ported. Specifically, we need Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 (PC-E got part one... why not the rest?)
I 2nd that. While I want to make new games for the Turbob, I also have a wishlist of games I'd like to bring over from the NES & remake them, like the Contra's, make them graphically arcade perfect, while keeping the layouts of the NES versions.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on November 07, 2011, 09:48:18 AM
I don't think it was emulation though, I think it was modifying the binary to make it run on the PC Engine.
It's actually both. There isn't really a good reason to try and emulate a 6502 when it can just run 6502 native code. Only the port writes and reads are patched in the binary (from lda port or lda port,x and sta port or sta port,x opcodes are patched to JSR xxxx since they are the same length). Everything else is realtime emulation; video, audio, mapper, etc. I love NES games, but there's no way I would spend the time to completely rewrite the hardware interface routines for native PCE hardware. My love for such games doesn't extend that far. Or rather, my free time required for such a thing.
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I'd rather NES games actually be ported. Specifically, we need Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 (PC-E got part one... why not the rest?)
Once the games are up and running, there's no reason why you couldn't upgrade them. I mean, other than taking the time to disassemble and understand the game structure/routines enough to modify them. I did this with Megaman 1. I RE'd the metasprite for the game objects, then changed megaman sprite itself to single 32x32 sprite frames (using more vram than what NES could access). I also upgraded the colors to 4bit. And I did this by upgrading the NES video emulation itself (added new functionality to unused bits in the sprite table entries) that didn't specifically break backwards compatibility. It allowed me to upgraded in steps without breaking a ton of stuff.
I did provided the source code templates and project files for people to make modifications themselves or get other NES games working on the core system, but I guess the setup is just too advanced for the average hacker or such a steep learning curve. I dunno. It does require you to be intimately familiar with both the NES and PCE on the lowest level. I only know of one person besides myself that actually did anything with my source files; an NES emulation author toyed with it to get Contra up and running on the PCE (although I have my own version up and running).
To the general public: don't expect anything from this. Yes, I do work on this stuff from time to time, but it's at my own leisure and for fun/hobby/etc. I'm doing this for myself and not specifically for the general public (which is why I've kept quite a bit of the other NES games running on PCE private), though I will share stuff publicly from time to time. So please no requests or such. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just don't want to lead anybody on or get peoples hopes up/whatever. If you have the know-how/experience though, and are interested in this sort of thing, I'd be happy to provide the material and explain any detail I can.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 07, 2011, 10:09:27 AM
I did provided the source code templates and project files for people to make modifications themselves or get other NES games working on the core system, but I guess the setup is just too advanced for the average hacker or such a steep learning curve. I dunno.
:roll:
Are you sure it's just a matter of noone else wanting to, or it not being documented well enough for anyone to bother wanting to sit and figure out what you're doing?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on November 07, 2011, 11:51:42 AM
I did provided the source code templates and project files for people to make modifications themselves or get other NES games working on the core system, but I guess the setup is just too advanced for the average hacker or such a steep learning curve. I dunno.
:roll:
Are you sure it's just a matter of noone else wanting to, or it not being documented well enough for anyone to bother wanting to sit and figure out what you're doing?
Oooh, I'm sure the vast majority just don't give a crap about the PCE or want to do this in general. I have no delusions there. I'm sure there are plenty of smart people out there that could follow what's going on in the source code, provided the source with the rom itself (how it's used) and running it through an emulator/debugger. Not to mention I've personally offered to answer any questions or just help outright, to speed things along. Also, hacker types specifically don't have the luxury of comments let alone source code for most of their working environments. They take things apart and figure it out for themselves. My lack of comments in the source would have little to no effect on them.
Like I said, you need to know both the PCE and the NES hardware intimately in detail. Finding someone just for PCE that really know its in and outs, is hard enough by itself. I've been told by quite a few that are very capable low level console coders, RE'rs and such, that this was an incredible feat. So I'm not pulling that assumption out of my ass. At the very least, it makes for a steep learning curve - commented code or not. I'd say this isn't for beginning or intermediate console coders. But hey, I could be wrong :)
The Finland hacking team did this back in the mid 90's, but they specifically chose very simple games (relative to NES hardware use) and also rewrote portions of code to avoid some emulation problems/complexity (sometimes large parts and including the data). My approach is 98% emulation, 2% hacking. The emulation code and approach is much more complex as a result, but it makes the source more portable than game specific. And also results in less overall time in getting the game up and running.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 07, 2011, 01:33:11 PM
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The Finland hacking team did this back in the mid 90's, but they specifically chose very simple games (relative to NES hardware use) and also rewrote portions of code to avoid some emulation problems/complexity (sometimes large parts and including the data). My approach is 98% emulation, 2% hacking. The emulation code and approach is much more complex as a result, but it makes the source more portable than game specific. And also results in less overall time in getting the game up and running.
Curious, was that group responsible for the porting of the original Super Mario Brothers to the PCE? I for one would be interested in getting into programming/hacking again, but I fear my job takes up a good portion of my time these days...
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 07, 2011, 02:23:04 PM
Oooh, I'm sure the vast majority just don't give a crap about the PCE or want to do this in general. I have no delusions there.
There aren't many people interested in making a game run on a different machine when the original machine is perfectly fine and the end result is going to be the *same f*cking experience*. There are even less interested in doing it on the PCE, because the PCE dev scene can be counted on two hands with spare fingers.
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I'm sure there are plenty of smart people out there that could follow what's going on in the source code, provided the source with the rom itself (how it's used) and running it through an emulator/debugger. Not to mention I've personally offered to answer any questions or just help outright, to speed things along. Also, hacker types specifically don't have the luxury of comments let alone source code for most of their working environments. They take things apart and figure it out for themselves. My lack of comments in the source would have little to no effect on them.
Yes but when its a commentless environment, it's usually with something they give a shit enough about to figure out. Not commenting your code and using that as an excuse is poor form. If you're going to diddle around with stuff and want people to use it, document it. Expecting people to figure it out is why no one uses things you do. There's a difference between dismantling a rom dump, and dismantling something you've cooked up.
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Like I said, you need to know both the PCE and the NES hardware intimately in detail. Finding someone just for PCE that really know its in and outs, is hard enough by itself. I've been told by quite a few that are very capable low level console coders, RE'rs and such, that this was an incredible feat. So I'm not pulling that assumption out of my ass. At the very least, it makes for a steep learning curve - commented code or not.
*shrug* I don't see how its an incredible feat. It's neat, sure. It could turn into something big. But, like you even mentioned, this was done already around 1993 with a bunch of games including Arkanoid, which is awesome.
It was also done with lesser tools, and far less resources. That's more of an incredible feat, IMO. TG hacking before TGHack was around.
This is an incredible feat: http://www.tni.nl/products/gem.html
Gameboy emulated on an MSX.
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I'd say this isn't for beginning or intermediate console coders. But hey, I could be wrong :)
You probably are.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on November 07, 2011, 05:21:47 PM
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Curious, was that group responsible for the porting of the original Super Mario Brothers to the PCE? I for one would be interested in getting into programming/hacking again, but I fear my job takes up a good portion of my time these days...
Yes, they were the group. The colors are off and the music is too fast, but it's been theorized that the Finland group used a PAL modified PCE so that might explain this. It wasn't just SMB, they had 5 other NES games too. All though none of them use any mappers (simple 32k rom games) and they all use chr-rom (no vram for tile/sprite graphics, so you can preload it which saves a ton of work and emulation back end speed). They also did some Vic-20 stuff on the PCE. But I didn't look much into it (to see how much of it was rewritten hardware code or actual emulation). I've also done my own SMB nes rom for the PCE, but the sound emulation needs some more work (the sweep emulation for NES).
Unless you're specifically into this sort of thing or really want your favorite nes game running on the PCE, I'd personally recommend coding something else for the PCE. Out of all the games NES roms I've worked on for the PCE, Megaman is my favorite. I've logged tons of hours playing it on the PCE (not just testing, but just to play it/beat it). I still play it on the PCE (real system) over busting out the NES system. So for me it was worth the effort and time I put into it - not just for the novelty factor. I also made a hack to the , but I could never find a full replacement sound track that I liked.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 07, 2011, 05:46:16 PM
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Yes, they were the group. The colors are off and the music is too fast, but it's been theorized that the Finland group used a PAL modified PCE so that might explain this. It wasn't just SMB, they had 5 other NES games too. All though none of them use any mappers (simple 32k rom games) and they all use chr-rom (no vram for tile/sprite graphics, so you can preload it which saves a ton of work and emulation back end speed). They also did some Vic-20 stuff on the PCE. But I didn't look much into it (to see how much of it was rewritten hardware code or actual emulation). I've also done my own SMB nes rom for the PCE, but the sound emulation needs some more work (the sweep emulation for NES).
Unless you're specifically into this sort of thing or really want your favorite nes game running on the PCE, I'd personally recommend coding something else for the PCE. Out of all the games NES roms I've worked on for the PCE, Megaman is my favorite. I've logged tons of hours playing it on the PCE (not just testing, but just to play it/beat it). I still play it on the PCE (real system) over busting out the NES system. So for me it was worth the effort and time I put into it - not just for the novelty factor. I also made a hack to the Megaman rom to play CD tracks instead of the PSG tracks, but I could never find a full replacement sound track that I liked.
Still neat nevertheless. A shame we won't see a public release of this stuff (better than seeing Doom and Halo on an atari 2600 IMO), but I understand why the reasoning behind it. Now redoing some of the sprites and music for NES games on a PCE (as some have stated), that could be pretty cool. Perhaps a near arcade perfect version of Ghosts N Goblins or the like.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: spenoza on November 07, 2011, 05:53:02 PM
Unless you're specifically into this sort of thing or really want your favorite nes game running on the PCE, I'd personally recommend coding something else for the PCE. Out of all the games NES roms I've worked on for the PCE, Megaman is my favorite. I've logged tons of hours playing it on the PCE (not just testing, but just to play it/beat it). I still play it on the PCE (real system) over busting out the NES system. So for me it was worth the effort and time I put into it - not just for the novelty factor.
Any reason (other than the obligatory legal reason) you haven't released this out to the hobbyist crowd? I think I would have gone after Mega Man 2, personally. That one is my favorite in the series.
I see that you already have. Never mind.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 08, 2011, 12:37:07 AM
Still neat nevertheless. A shame we won't see a public release of this stuff (better than seeing Doom and Halo on an atari 2600 IMO), but I understand why the reasoning behind it. Now redoing some of the sprites and music for NES games on a PCE (as some have stated), that could be pretty cool. Perhaps a near arcade perfect version of Ghosts N Goblins or the like.
See: The defunct Dragon Quest Remix project. The probably abandoned like 10 year old Legend of Zelda port
There are not any high hopes here dude.
If I ever port an NES game to the PCE, its going to be Hydlide, and noones going to give a shit except Runinruder, :)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on November 08, 2011, 02:58:37 AM
Still neat nevertheless. A shame we won't see a public release of this stuff (better than seeing Doom and Halo on an atari 2600 IMO), but I understand why the reasoning behind it. Now redoing some of the sprites and music for NES games on a PCE (as some have stated), that could be pretty cool. Perhaps a near arcade perfect version of Ghosts N Goblins or the like.
I'll still release this kind of stuff to the public when I feel it's in appropriate state or such or whatever; but I'm just not making any official commitments to anyone or scene or community. It's for myself first and foremost. I agree, redoing graphics tiles/sprites and music would be a great thing. Problem is, it requires disassembling the game and understanding all the routines and structure in order to modify it. That's no small task by any stretch of the imagination. It's tedious and very time consuming. But, the game itself is running on the PCE so there's no reason why anyone couldn't hack for upgrades at any point after its release. The problem is finding a capable rom hacker willing to do this for upgraded PCE ports. Finding pixel artists and musicians for such projects is the easy part. Especially if it's a well known title.
Sliver-X did a . I actually had his nes rom up and running on the PCE back in 2007. We talked a little bit about possibly redoing the graphics and music(CDDA) for PCE, but he was busy at the time working on the sequel to his game (running on the Final Fantasy 1 engine of the NES rom). I had Dragon Warrior up and running then (fully playable/beatable), my first NES rom to run on PCE, and so it was pretty pretty simple to get his hack up and running on the PCE too. Hehe, it was technically a new RPG for the PCE. Would have been nice to play graphic/audio upgraded version of it, though.
spenoza: Megaman 2 has started WIP since this summer and it requires additional video emulation support; I've just been super busy as of late. MM1 and MM2 are my favorite Megaman games. If no one ends up really caring or downloading/playing it when it's done, then that's fine - it'll still be worth it for me. I'll play the crap out of MM2 on my PCE.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arm on November 08, 2011, 06:05:09 AM
Speaking of nes games, Sivak is finishing programming his last game Battlekid2 for the nes which will be available on real carts. The game is in some way similar to Rockman. I was in charge of redesigning the characters portrait and creating the manual artworks. Who knows, if Sivak agrees, maybe the game could one day be ported to the PCECD. :)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 08, 2011, 06:35:59 AM
Speaking of nes games, Sivak is finishing programming his last game Battlekid2 for the nes which will be available on real carts. The game is in some way similar to Rockman. I was in charge of redesigning the characters portrait and creating the manual artworks. Who knows, if Sivak agrees, maybe the game could one day be ported to the PCECD. :)
that would be cool. Battlekid was pretty fun. Kinda hard, but good.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arm on November 08, 2011, 06:37:58 AM
Yeah, the game isn't very easy or forgiving.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 08, 2011, 06:53:51 AM
Something about Mega man is that the people who know how to balance the game out don't work on it anymore...
Mega Man 9 and 10 for digital download are pretty frigging brutal. Mega Man 3 for example was challenging but not cheap.
:)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Keranu on November 08, 2011, 01:09:52 PM
If any coders are still up to porting/remaking Dragon Warrior to the PCE, I'm still down for finishing up the remaining sprites! I'm sure Paranoia_Dragon would be willing to finish up the soundtrack too. We got a lot of work done on that project, we mostly need someone to remake the tiles and then code it all together.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 08, 2011, 01:21:32 PM
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Insert Quote If any coders are still up to porting/remaking Dragon Warrior to the PCE, I'm still down for finishing up the remaining sprites! I'm sure Paranoia_Dragon would be willing to finish up the soundtrack too. We got a lot of work done on that project, we mostly need someone to remake the tiles and then code it all together.
I would love to help, but I'm not that tech savvy to start on something like that. About the extent of my programming knowledge is creating a scroll demo using HUC. ^^ That and creating annoying programs for the good old Commodore 64. :P
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If I ever port an NES game to the PCE, its going to be Hydlide, and noones going to give a shit except Runinruder, Smile
And I thought I was the only one who liked Hydlide. :mrgreen: Never did play the various sequels, but I do know that Hydlide 2 was on the MSX and there was a translation for it...
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 08, 2011, 01:47:13 PM
And I thought I was the only one who liked Hydlide. :mrgreen: Never did play the various sequels, but I do know that Hydlide 2 was on the MSX and there was a translation for it...
Hello new best friend.
You don't really need a translation for Hydlide 2. There is hardly any text in it in the first place. Read an instruction book online and you are basically good to go. You'll just have to work out the shop menus which is a 50/50 chance of you clicking on "buy/sell" and then "yes or no"..
Other than that, you literally don't read anything really lol
Hydlide 3 on MSX has english mode built in. You just toggle it on and enjoy broken english, compliments of T&E!
Hydlide 2 is f*cking great, but there is ALOT of grinding. There are a few tricks you can do to make it easier, but its still alot.
I like just murdering everyone. It makes you evil and the shop wont sell you stuff, but once you are buff as hell, you can go back out and murder only bad people and get your FORTH back up, and be a good guy!
Then you play the fighting game in town and get your strength, etc. up.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on November 08, 2011, 02:23:41 PM
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I like just murdering everyone. It makes you evil and the shop wont sell you stuff, but once you are buff as hell, you can go back out and murder only bad people and get your FORTH back up, and be a good guy!
Sounds like what I used to do in the early Ultima games and the ever ending quest to kill Lord British. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/181917/featuresthe-many-deaths-of-lord-british/ Ahh good times, good times. Probably should pick up the other Hydlide games, even the Saturn one. Starting to wish I didn't trade off my Japanese Saturn now... Anyway, I remember the first time I played Hydlide on one of those multi-cart NES demo systems back in the day and convincing my parents to get the game for me. That and Deadly Towers, won't go into details about that one. ^^ Anyway, back on topic, so it sounds to me that if you knew NES code, you basically knew 80% PC engine code as they used similiar cpus?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on November 08, 2011, 03:46:57 PM
Anyway, back on topic, so it sounds to me that if you knew NES code, you basically knew 80% PC engine code as they used similiar cpus?
Coming from the NES to the PCE? Yeah. If you've coded with the 2A03 or 6502, you'll have no problem stepping into the 6280. The video hardware isn't the same though. The NES tilemap setup (mirroring options, sub divisions) is convoluted/complex, sprite size to banks and the attribute system too. The PCE video hardware in comparison is pretty straight forward in comparison (much like the Genesis IMO). Though if you're already used to the NES video setup, the PCE will seem pretty easy once you learn all the registers and such.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 09, 2011, 01:27:18 AM
The PCE is easy in comparison to other 6502 based machines (NES, C64).
So if you can deal with those, the PCE is simple.
But the expectations are higher, apparently. :-/ lol
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Black Tiger on November 09, 2011, 03:51:35 PM
I like just murdering everyone. It makes you evil and the shop wont sell you stuff, but once you are buff as hell, you can go back out and murder only bad people and get your FORTH back up, and be a good guy!
That's how I used to play Ultima IV, when trying to beat it as fast as possible. :P It was so much faster when you know exactly who to talk to become enlightened with each virtue. :)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on November 10, 2011, 12:44:34 AM
I like just murdering everyone. It makes you evil and the shop wont sell you stuff, but once you are buff as hell, you can go back out and murder only bad people and get your FORTH back up, and be a good guy!
That's how I used to play Ultima IV, when trying to beat it as fast as possible. :P It was so much faster when you know exactly who to talk to become enlightened with each virtue. :)
Ultima 1, I just robbed the weapons shop until I got a blaster or phazor, then stole a reflect suit, and then shot the whole planet :D
It's an interesting bug on Origins part. They don't check the current game era (time and technology progress as you play/complete tasks) while stealing things.
So even if you're in primitive medieval times, you can steal the space age gear. It's completely random, so just keep stealing til you get the good shit.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 23, 2012, 04:04:27 AM
I saw this today: (http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/640902rockman.html)
I recently released a SCD version of the newest build for people without flashcards (not the CDDA/red book version) and I guess someone made a cover for it. I recently made a trainer menu for Raiden with fragmare, so got me thinking of why not just including both the hucard and red book versions into a single SCD release. I'll need to get some art assets to make the boot menu (maybe some members from here could contribute; sprites,tiles,images,ideas. It's just the menu screen, but why not make it fun/fancy/whatever). What do you guys think? Again, this is just the boot menu. I'm not hacking the game sprites (though I do have a working build for that, a shame too) as I'm putting that free time into other more important things.
PS: I won't provide links here since per forum rules, but you can find links to the site in my signature.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on February 23, 2012, 04:39:25 AM
I saw this today: (http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/640902rockman.html)
I recently released a SCD version of the newest build for people without flashcards (not the CDDA/red book version) and I guess someone made a cover for it. I recently made a trainer menu for Raiden with fragmare, so got me thinking of why not just including both the hucard and red book versions into a single SCD release. I'll need to get some art assets to make the boot menu (maybe some members from here could contribute; sprites,tiles,images,ideas. It's just the menu screen, but why not make it fun/fancy/whatever). What do you guys think? Again, this is just the boot menu. I'm not hacking the game sprites (though I do have a working build for that, a shame too) as I'm putting that free time into other more important things.
PS: I won't provide links here since per forum rules, but you can find links to the site in my signature.
Nice!!! Do you happen to have images of the covers/inserts or just this pic?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: burn_654 on February 23, 2012, 07:50:30 AM
I recently released a SCD version of the newest build for people without flashcards (not the CDDA/red book version) and I guess someone made a cover for it. I recently made a trainer menu for Raiden with fragmare, so got me thinking of why not just including both the hucard and red book versions into a single SCD release. I'll need to get some art assets to make the boot menu (maybe some members from here could contribute; sprites,tiles,images,ideas. It's just the menu screen, but why not make it fun/fancy/whatever). What do you guys think? Again, this is just the boot menu. I'm not hacking the game sprites (though I do have a working build for that, a shame too) as I'm putting that free time into other more important things.
Well, it is a good day to be a PCE enthusiast! (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html) (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html) (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html) (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 23, 2012, 10:29:19 AM
Nice!!! Do you happen to have images of the covers/inserts or just this pic?
Just this pic. And I only found it via a link from the forum is was posted at (that just happen to redirect to my blog). Which is why I'm ask, if pce fans (individuals or the community in general) wants to do something like this. I.e. make a manual, back jewel case insert, etc. That and some other stuffs.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Shrapnoid on February 23, 2012, 11:25:38 AM
Bonknuts, do you know Vagla, Speh3 or any of those guys? Vagla has done some Mega Man hacks and he, Seph3 and another guy were working on Mega Man Vengeance (The NES homebrew where you play as Bass/Forte).
If you can get in touch with any of these guys, they may be willing to help out on your Megaman to pc-engine port.
I've played it some and you did a great job. I've also noticed that if I change the file extension to .nes on the rom, Tile Layer Pro will display it. Don't know if any of that matters but, I have a Megaman hack that I've been working with and if I ever find the time to get it done, thought about making it so it would work with your Megaman, especially since yours can run on PC-Engine and NES.
I wanted to try playing around with using the Wily Wars Sprites for enhanced graphics but, due to my vast ignorance and complete lack of coding knowledge, I've been running into some dead ends.
Anyway, just thought I'd run it by you and see if it's okay with you if I try anything like that. I really would like to see a 16-bit quality graphics version of PC-Engine Megaman. I'm VERY interested and I still think that doing 4, 5 and 6 would be a great 16-bit style continuation of what Wily Wars was.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 23, 2012, 11:44:17 AM
Bonknuts, do you know Vagla, Speh3 or any of those guys? Vagla has done some Mega Man hacks and he, Seph3 and another guy were working on Mega Man Vengeance (The NES homebrew where you play as Bass/Forte).
If you can get in touch with any of these guys, they may be willing to help out on your Megaman to pc-engine port.
I've played it some and you did a great job. I've also noticed that if I change the file extension to .nes on the rom, Tile Layer Pro will display it. Don't know if any of that matters but, I have a Megaman hack that I've been working with and if I ever find the time to get it done, thought about making it so it would work with your Megaman, especially since yours can run on PC-Engine and NES.
I wanted to try playing around with using the Wily Wars Sprites for enhanced graphics but, due to my vast ignorance and complete lack of coding knowledge, I've been running into some dead ends.
Anyway, just thought I'd run it by you and see if it's okay with you if I try anything like that. I really would like to see a 16-bit quality graphics version of PC-Engine Megaman. I'm VERY interested and I still think that doing 4, 5 and 6 would be a great 16-bit style continuation of what Wily Wars was.
Shrapnoid, no - I don't know those guys. I don't know any Megaman/Rockman hackers. I did upgrade the PCE version for easy sprite enhancement - as if you're still working with the NES system (no PCE experience really needed at all). I'd love to get a community project going for this. If you know any megaman hackers, definitely let them know about this and that I'm interested in helping out in a PCE version hack.
Also yes, the huge majority of the rom is just the NES rom itself. Graphics and all. I didn't replace the any of the game code (music, video, etc). I just emulated it. But I also added emulation enhancement to unused bits of the NES regs. So you could in theory (and I've done in practice) include new graphic assets into the rom and use those instead. The problem is that you need to hack all the meta-sprite and tile stuff of the game engine. I started doing this for all the frame of Megaman himself, but didn't finish editing all the meta tables. An experienced megaman hacker probably knows all these tables or has tools for editing them. I'm definitely willing to add more enhancements to the emulation code if someone were to use it. I'm just not interesting in making my *own* hack of the game and when it comes down to it - no one seems really interested in doing such a hack on the PCE (I've pretty much advertised on RHDN).
Other enhancements I did was add CDDA/redbook support. I could add ADPCM sound FX as well if needed.
Here's a pic of the sprite enhancement in action: (http://www.pcedev.net/nes2pce/mm/mm_sprite2.png) It might not be apparent, but the sprites frames are now all 32x32 cells instead of 8x8 cells. Colors are upgrade too, but only one frame shows it (16 color sprites instead of 3 color NES sprites).
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Shrapnoid on February 23, 2012, 02:41:02 PM
Bonknuts, do you know Vagla, Speh3 or any of those guys? Vagla has done some Mega Man hacks and he, Seph3 and another guy were working on Mega Man Vengeance (The NES homebrew where you play as Bass/Forte).
If you can get in touch with any of these guys, they may be willing to help out on your Megaman to pc-engine port.
I've played it some and you did a great job. I've also noticed that if I change the file extension to .nes on the rom, Tile Layer Pro will display it. Don't know if any of that matters but, I have a Megaman hack that I've been working with and if I ever find the time to get it done, thought about making it so it would work with your Megaman, especially since yours can run on PC-Engine and NES.
I wanted to try playing around with using the Wily Wars Sprites for enhanced graphics but, due to my vast ignorance and complete lack of coding knowledge, I've been running into some dead ends.
Anyway, just thought I'd run it by you and see if it's okay with you if I try anything like that. I really would like to see a 16-bit quality graphics version of PC-Engine Megaman. I'm VERY interested and I still think that doing 4, 5 and 6 would be a great 16-bit style continuation of what Wily Wars was.
Shrapnoid, no - I don't know those guys. I don't know any Megaman/Rockman hackers. I did upgrade the PCE version for easy sprite enhancement - as if you're still working with the NES system (no PCE experience really needed at all). I'd love to get a community project going for this. If you know any megaman hackers, definitely let them know about this and that I'm interested in helping out in a PCE version hack.
Also yes, the huge majority of the rom is just the NES rom itself. Graphics and all. I didn't replace the any of the game code (music, video, etc). I just emulated it. But I also added emulation enhancement to unused bits of the NES regs. So you could in theory (and I've done in practice) include new graphic assets into the rom and use those instead. The problem is that you need to hack all the meta-sprite and tile stuff of the game engine. I started doing this for all the frame of Megaman himself, but didn't finish editing all the meta tables. An experienced megaman hacker probably knows all these tables or has tools for editing them. I'm definitely willing to add more enhancements to the emulation code if someone were to use it. I'm just not interesting in making my *own* hack of the game and when it comes down to it - no one seems really interested in doing such a hack on the PCE (I've pretty much advertised on RHDN).
Other enhancements I did was add CDDA/redbook support. I could add ADPCM sound FX as well if needed.
Here's a pic of the sprite enhancement in action: (http://www.pcedev.net/nes2pce/mm/mm_sprite2.png) It might not be apparent, but the sprites frames are now all 32x32 cells instead of 8x8 cells. Colors are upgrade too, but only one frame shows it (16 color sprites instead of 3 color NES sprites).
Yes, I see what you mean. Very nice! I'll see what I can do with getting in touch with the guys I told you about and talk to some of the other gifted Megaman/Rockman hackers as well. I honestly don't see any reason why any of them wouldn't be excited about this project. If all goes well, this should be an incredible game! I'll let you know what I find out.
If anyone here is nuts about MegaMan then, PLEASE help Bonknuts with his requests.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 24, 2012, 01:01:38 AM
Oh crap, I found out more: http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k150484293 http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k150680165
No, these are not my auctions.
Pics in case the auctions/links are down: (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png) (http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd379/PCGenjin/megaman_auctions/matsumoto2-img600x450-1329959166gnpixe20389.jpg) (http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd379/PCGenjin/megaman_auctions/matsumoto2-img600x450-1329959166klkp5i20389.jpg)
The curious side of me wonders what build he/she's using... >_>
Also, for any future talk for the development of Megaman (manual, insert, intro, boot menu, etc) should be in a new thread specifically for Megaman.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on February 24, 2012, 01:04:47 AM
Welcome to the wonderful world of jackf*cks gouging things you work on.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: futureman2000 on February 24, 2012, 01:10:25 AM
That sucks. I'll bet Capcom wouldn't like this sale one bit.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on February 24, 2012, 01:24:30 AM
I honestly didn't think Japan had the retard-equivalent of RoyVegas, and the people who buy things he sells for too much.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 24, 2012, 01:25:49 AM
Yeah, well... the Japanese buyers will be a bit confused when the boot the thing and the title reads Megaman instead of Rockman (well, I'm assuming) - contrary to what the labels indicate.
Just found this too: http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Frank_fjs on February 24, 2012, 01:31:11 AM
but are we sure this one for sale is actually the one Tom worked on? lol. What if by some strange fluke this is unrelated?
There's always that possibility, but the odds are pretty long.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on February 24, 2012, 02:27:16 AM
Only one way to find out... And thats to buy one. I am assuming by ripping the disc, and uploading it for Tom to look at, he would know if its actually his, right?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 24, 2012, 02:28:03 AM
but are we sure this one for sale is actually the one Tom worked on? lol. What if by some strange fluke this is unrelated?
True, true. But what's the one law... given all things, the simplest explanation is usually the most probable explanation? Or something like that. Given the other two titles on the site aren't developed by the seller either (he states that he's reprinting those). I sent an email to the address listed on the site.
Bernie: Correct.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Frank_fjs on February 24, 2012, 02:45:28 AM
Clear your cache. It's at the very top of the page.
Yep, that did the trick, thanks.
Shame that this wasn't done legitimately as it looks like very nice work.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on February 24, 2012, 02:56:26 AM
Yeah it sucks that you'd have to drop like 80$ to find out if the douchecunt is profiting off of a hack.
Hacks are supposed to be free. Maybe they're just charging for the packaging, and the game is free!
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 24, 2012, 02:59:55 AM
Legitimately? You mean asking me or asking Capcom? Even if they asked me for permission to use my work (the backend emulation code and such) in a project for profit, I don't own or have the rights to the assets and code of the original game.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Frank_fjs on February 24, 2012, 03:10:57 AM
I meant it would be nice if someone took the time to design a nice cover for your work and make it freely available. People could print it out at home and throw it into a blank CD case.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on February 24, 2012, 04:06:28 AM
Yeah, well... the Japanese buyers will be a bit confused when the boot the thing and the title reads Megaman instead of Rockman (well, I'm assuming) - contrary to what the labels indicate.
Just found this too: http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/
The problem is that this fellow's presentation really makes everything look so professional...I can see the average PCE fan (outside of these forums) not questioning the ethics behind these items.
Sad.
However, maybe someone here can contact Mr. anime4ever.de and ask him for screenshots (or video) of Rockman/Megaman title screen + stage 1...just to see what is actually being sold here.
I know I'm curious.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Senshi on February 24, 2012, 04:31:47 AM
Truth be told, I'd pay like 30$ for the packaging alone, no disc! That posterthing is f*ckin cool looking.
Well, curiousity got the best of me. I bought one.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: spenoza on February 24, 2012, 08:33:11 AM
It's less than a port, more than a hack. The audio emulation code alone was probably more work than any hack short of a total conversion. I'd say this is darn near a port, given that he's opened it up to hacking with enhanced capabilities as well. Definitely a prime piece of software work.
And yes, the packaging kicks major ass. We should track the foo down and get him to do some other work for our community ; )
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on February 24, 2012, 10:34:20 AM
It's less than a port, more than a hack. The audio emulation code alone was probably more work than any hack short of a total conversion. I'd say this is darn near a port, given that he's opened it up to hacking with enhanced capabilities as well. Definitely a prime piece of software work.
And yes, the packaging kicks major ass. We should track the foo down and get him to do some other work for our community ; )
He can atone for his sins by providing exceptional graphic design and layouts!
Not that this would truly cancel his sins, mind you...but it would be a token gesture.
The design and layout are truly exquisite.
Goddamn him!
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Shrapnoid on February 24, 2012, 11:30:47 AM
Nice as that looks, I'd rather wait for a possible enhanced graphics/Sounds version, done by the best MM/RM hackers around and supervised or approved by Bonknuts. I'm a big Megaman fan and have been for decades but, even if I thought this deal were legit, I'd refuse to buy this guy's version.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on February 24, 2012, 11:34:26 AM
Truth be told, I'd pay like 30$ for the packaging alone, no disc! That posterthing is f*ckin cool looking.
Well, curiousity got the best of me. I bought one.
The other thing to remember before doing business with animeforever is the guy is a liar. He opened an account here in '05 promoting his mysterious box of Sapphires with that elaborate "second print" BS about how they were found in Japan and how he sent a copy to Hudson and they could neither confirm nor deny their authenticity. He then opened that website just sell that "one box." He's since sold some unpackaged and misprinted spindles and everyone now knows that he made them himself
Considering this checkered past, there's no doubt he simply ripped off that Mega Man hack and made some discs. His last effort, SFZ, was a CDr step down from the glass master Sapphire discs, so you're probably not even getting a real disc. His graphic design is sweet, but I can't support this guy in good conscience.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Shrapnoid on February 24, 2012, 01:28:45 PM
Truth be told, I'd pay like 30$ for the packaging alone, no disc! That posterthing is f*ckin cool looking.
Well, curiousity got the best of me. I bought one.
The other thing to remember before doing business with animeforever is the guy is a liar. He opened an account here in '05 promoting his mysterious box of Sapphires with that elaborate "second print" BS about how they were found in Japan and how he sent a copy to Hudson and they could neither confirm nor deny their authenticity. He then opened that website just sell that "one box." He's since sold some unpackaged and misprinted spindles and everyone now knows that he made them himself
Considering this checkered past, there's no doubt he simply ripped off that Mega Man hack and made some discs. His last effort, SFZ, was a CDr step down from the glass master Sapphire discs, so you're probably not even getting a real disc. His graphic design is sweet, but I can't support this guy in good conscience.
See? I guess I can understand picking one up if you're really THAT curious and can afford it but, I just don't see it.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 24, 2012, 01:34:41 PM
Had some time to think about this today. And to be honest, I'm not really bothered by it. After first, after seeing the yahoo auctions I was little bit pissed (like you get at ebay jerks selling pirated stuffs), but also quite a bit amused. But after seeing the site, which seems to have no relation to those - meh. If you guys want to buy copies from him and talk about them, then that's cool. I'm not disgruntled about it or anything. 1) I can't sell these for myself for obvious reasons. 2) They were meant to be free for community. 3) Even if someone did ask for permission to use my emulation code (which is mine and not Capcoms) in a for profit project, there's still no way I could officially say "yeah, sure". Simply because I'd still be consider aiding in copyright infringement for profit (I'd use the word 'pirate', but it's lost a lot of its meaning since the 80's and 90's). I never intended to profit from it and I'm still not profiting from it, so nothing's changed. But I'm definitely gonna keep this in mind for all future stuff I release for free (gonna have to look over the GPL free for non commercial/profit crap or something)
If this is a CD-R though, you're definitely wasting your money - hahahaha. Ask first. I remember when some stupid retrogame company got a hold of some beta SegaCD game and I rushed out to order it (totally legit) and it turned out to be a CD-R. I was pissed to say the least. The fighting game itself was a piece crap though, so double pissed. (And no, pissed != drunk)
Anyway, do what you guys want. I'm cool with it. I've actually got an email from the site's owner and ask that if it is my work he's selling, and since it was released to be free for the PCE community, that if he can provide his nice manual and inserts online in some downloadable digital format free for the community to use as well. Seems fair to me. If not, we make our own here - right? Someone must have talents for this kind of stuffs...
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on February 24, 2012, 02:08:44 PM
Tom, Do you still want me to rip it and upload the image for you to compare?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Sadler on February 24, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
Had some time to think about this today. And to be honest, I'm not really bothered by it. After first, after seeing the yahoo auctions I was little bit pissed (like you get at ebay jerks selling pirated stuffs), but also quite a bit amused. But after seeing the site, which seems to have no relation to those - meh. If you guys want to buy copies from him and talk about them, then that's cool. I'm not disgruntled about it or anything. 1) I can't sell these for myself for obvious reasons. 2) They were meant to be free for community. 3) Even if someone did ask for permission to use my emulation code (which is mine and not Capcoms) in a for profit project, there's still no way I could officially say "yeah, sure". Simply because I'd still be consider aiding in copyright infringement for profit (I'd use the word 'pirate', but it's lost a lot of its meaning since the 80's and 90's). I never intended to profit from it and I'm still not profiting from it, so nothing's changed. But I'm definitely gonna keep this in mind for all future stuff I release for free (gonna have to look over the GPL free for non commercial/profit crap or something)
If this is a CD-R though, you're definitely wasting your money - hahahaha. Ask first. I remember when some stupid retrogame company got a hold of some beta SegaCD game and I rushed out to order it (totally legit) and it turned out to be a CD-R. I was pissed to say the least. The fighting game itself was a piece crap though, so double pissed. (And no, pissed != drunk)
Anyway, do what you guys want. I'm cool with it. I've actually got an email from the site's owner and ask that if it is my work he's selling, and since it was released to be free for the PCE community, that if he can provide his nice manual and inserts online in some downloadable digital format free for the community to use as well. Seems fair to me. If not, we make our own here - right? Someone must have talents for this kind of stuffs...
Wow, that's incredibly generous of you! :D I don't think I'd be nearly as patient with someone selling my work for profit. To be honest, I'd much prefer to wait for upgraded sprites/tiles and have the art work printed myself, and burn the CD myself. Still, I think it's cool you are that laid back.
At any rate, thank you so much for your contributions to the community. I have nothing but respect for you! :D
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 24, 2012, 02:55:52 PM
Tom, Do you still want me to rip it and upload the image for you to compare?
Sure. I'd be interested to see what version of the emulation it's using. I only recently made a CD version available that increases the screen size because of two floor enemies that couldn't be seen otherwise (in Iceman's level). I'm assuming it's the version before that (again, assuming this CD is my work or partial work. If not, it'd be one hell of a surprise :D). Also, I hope you get a pressed disc. It would suck if you paid all that money just for a CD-R (really nice manual/inserts or not). I kinda feel bad that you spent $80 on this. I'll hook you up in the future with something cool ;)
Sadler: I have something pretty serious in the works right now (homebrew). And it's my end goal for now, for PCE so to speak. So I rather keep my focus on that and not worry about other little things that don't really directly effect me. And to be honest, I'm envious of the manual/insert work. All my CD-R builds of it are just hastily written words/numbers in sharpie >_>
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Tatsujin on February 24, 2012, 05:32:54 PM
That guy is tobias, a german. Bmw was in contact with him for his missprinted sapphire leftovers once. If he just robbered toms work, then this is everything else than good.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: spenoza on February 24, 2012, 05:34:56 PM
I knew not the backstory on this... Hrm... That is troubling. If, despite his fine packaging work, he's a fraudster and a cheat, he definitely needs to be taken to task.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on February 24, 2012, 06:59:47 PM
Tom, Do you still want me to rip it and upload the image for you to compare?
Sure. I'd be interested to see what version of the emulation it's using. I only recently made a CD version available that increases the screen size because of two floor enemies that couldn't be seen otherwise (in Iceman's level). I'm assuming it's the version before that (again, assuming this CD is my work or partial work. If not, it'd be one hell of a surprise :D). Also, I hope you get a pressed disc. It would suck if you paid all that money just for a CD-R (really nice manual/inserts or not). I kinda feel bad that you spent $80 on this. I'll hook you up in the future with something cool ;)
Wasnt quite 80, more like 61 and some change. I too hope its a pressed disc, but I am thinking otherwise. Either way, once I get it I will rip it and upload it for ya. Dont feel bad, but hooking me up in the future is always cool. :) Do you want me to send you the artwork on loan as well? Meaning the inserts and all. Id rather someone scan them, that knows how to do it correctly. I could try my best tho.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on February 24, 2012, 10:20:20 PM
Anyway, do what you guys want. I'm cool with it. I've actually got an email from the site's owner and ask that if it is my work he's selling, and since it was released to be free for the PCE community, that if he can provide his nice manual and inserts online in some downloadable digital format free for the community to use as well. Seems fair to me. If not, we make our own here - right? Someone must have talents for this kind of stuffs...
I don't think folks here are rushing out to buy stuff from anime4ever...
As vestcoat pointed out, this fellow is a profiteer and knows exactly what he is doing (re-packaging other's work).
I am glad that you contacted him and I am hoping that he will share the inserts with us...hey, we can dream, can't we?
Otherwise, as Bernie suggested, we scan the inserts ourselves (the irony!). (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: incrediblehark on February 25, 2012, 01:15:31 AM
I'd love to get one of these, if it was a pressed disc and a finished version wit enhanced graphics/sond/etc. Really would like to see more Rockman/Megaman games cross over to PCE, its not like Capcom's going to give us any new ones.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 03:32:07 AM
Just scan all the inserts that come with Bernies, and let sparky mass produce that shit, lol.
DESTROY ANIME4EVAR
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on February 25, 2012, 04:47:39 AM
Wasnt quite 80, more like 61 and some change. I too hope its a pressed disc, but I am thinking otherwise. Either way, once I get it I will rip it and upload it for ya. Dont feel bad, but hooking me up in the future is always cool. :) Do you want me to send you the artwork on loan as well? Meaning the inserts and all. Id rather someone scan them, that knows how to do it correctly. I could try my best tho.
My scanner is sub-par. Probably better if someone else with a better scanner and more experience with it.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Senshi on February 25, 2012, 08:45:52 AM
Wasnt quite 80, more like 61 and some change. I too hope its a pressed disc, but I am thinking otherwise. Either way, once I get it I will rip it and upload it for ya. Dont feel bad, but hooking me up in the future is always cool. :) Do you want me to send you the artwork on loan as well? Meaning the inserts and all. Id rather someone scan them, that knows how to do it correctly. I could try my best tho.
My scanner is sub-par. Probably better if someone else with a better scanner and more experience with it.
How "good" does the scanner need to be?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on February 25, 2012, 08:49:17 AM
1.21 jiggaDPI?
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on February 25, 2012, 09:02:28 AM
Talked to Sparky. We will make sure everyone has access to all the inserts, including poster, for the MegaMan Super CD. Patience.. :)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Tatsujin on February 25, 2012, 01:37:46 PM
Patience my apprentice :)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Moosmann on February 25, 2012, 10:31:18 PM
Received the game 2 days ago without to know whether it exist.
The printed quality is MUCH higher to compare mostly Xbox/PS3 etc. releases
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on February 26, 2012, 10:21:22 AM
fire it up.
whats the title screen say
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: soop on February 27, 2012, 10:13:27 PM
Oh man... Mega Man on the PCE.. and yes that artwork is sweet. I'll keep an eye on this.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on March 03, 2012, 09:07:11 AM
I'm just curious: Have there been any developments on this?
I'm assuming this is Tom's work, correct? Which version is it?
I doubt anyone actually revised Tom's code, but, hey: Were alterations made? If so, explain!
Thanks in advance (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on March 03, 2012, 11:36:17 AM
Soon as I get my copy I will be ripping it and uploading it for Tom to check out. I will also post screen shots if they havent been posted by then. I should have mine by Monday, hopefully. Sending all the artwork Sparky's way ASAP so he can get some nice scans of it as well for future use.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on March 03, 2012, 08:08:29 PM
Soon as I get my copy I will be ripping it and uploading it for Tom to check out. I will also post screen shots if they havent been posted by then. I should have mine by Monday, hopefully. Sending all the artwork Sparky's way ASAP so he can get some nice scans of it as well for future use.
Thanks for the scoop. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcg0.html)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: RegalSin on March 04, 2012, 07:20:12 AM
Sigh.......... you know what I wanted to do this as well, otherwise, this is not reasonable.
The title screen has Rockman X talking english. I know for a fact that somebody was doing NES ports to PCE on certain types of mappers.
Like some Hong Kong sellers, I would ignore this game all together. The artwork does not even match at all. 15,500 for this is too much. That is like 300 dollars for something using misplaced art. Not good.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: JapanTokei on March 05, 2012, 03:11:17 AM
so now I found the proper thread for this topic... I have to say:
1) Bonknutz, you're focking awesome for making this work! 2) anime.de is a focking shameless punkazz for ripping BonkNuts' work and selling these! shame on him!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
someone should point Capcom to his site... grrrrrrrr
Bonknutz, on another topic, if you get this emu to work well enough, the possibilities would be amazing. i.e. pressing our own versions of famicom classics... imagine:
running a NES version of Downtown Netkkesu (river city ransom) and playing it side by side with the PCE version... lol :dance:
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on March 05, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
so now I found the proper thread for this topic... I have to say:
1) Bonknutz, you're focking awesome for making this work! 2) anime.de is a focking shameless punkazz for ripping BonkNuts' work and selling these! shame on him!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
someone should point Capcom to his site... grrrrrrrr
Bonknutz, on another topic, if you get this emu to work well enough, the possibilities would be amazing. i.e. pressing our own versions of famicom classics... imagine:
running a NES version of Downtown Netkkesu (river city ransom) and playing it side by side with the PCE version... lol :dance:
Well to his credit, according to the guy that runs the site - he said he got it from a yahoo auction (and I saw the original one on yahoo - has different art and manual). So he claims he didn't know it was mine nor did he take it from me (my site). That said, if he's gonna sell it (it's on a Sony DADC cd-r. I guess they're supposed to be second best to a pressed CD??? Made for old embedded systems with CD drives or some such thing) people should at least be getting the newest build (his build is one revision lower than what's out, IIRC).
You know, Megaman and other NES games that I've done aren't exactly a secret. I've posted about it on multiple forums over the years and it really didn't generate much interest from what I could tell outside of small handful of people. But I continued to work on tweaking the emulation such on Megaman... because that's my baby. I did it for myself. I play and have played the crap out of MM on my PCE/SGX/Duo system. I mean, all this originally started out as 'hey, look what you can do on the PCE' sort of thing. But it turned into something for myself. I.e. it became a real project instead of just a 'demo' per se. Megaman 1 holds a special place in my memories because besides SMB, it was the first game I had when I bought the NES for myself. I spent that whole summer non stop playing MM, SMB, and Zelda 1.
Anyway, so this MM 'project' has been around for a couple of years. I don't know why it's getting more attention now. Is it because people thought it was a real unreleased beta for the SCD (my blog is getting a lot of traffic for it. Forums, google, etc)? I have Megaman 2 in the works, all prep'd up, and could probably have it up and running within a week (with probably some minor glitches that would have to be worked out in the emulation core. It always works that way. A new game, more emulation support on the back end). I guess I'm subconsciously holding it for ransom or whatever >_>. I dunno. It does irritate me that a lot of the past responses about MM 1 have been, 'mm1 is ok, but mm2 would be great' - etc. I actually do want to upgrade Megaman 1. If I did do Megaman 2, I don't think it needs any upgrading. And, like nat said, other than novelty - what's the point of playing it on the PCE when you can just play it on NES or the Megaman collection for whatever system? I think that holds true for a lot of people (myself excluded though).
There's actually nothing stopping someone else from doing MM2 or MM3, etc themselves (other than the skillset/mindset required to do this kind of work). I've provided the source code to the emulation. I provide a full example of how it works, including the Megaman rom with the changes as source code (not binary/hex hacking). Arkhan brought up the point that there are no comments (or barely any) in the source code package. But I honestly don't think that's an issue at all. It's pretty self explanatory that you replace the original NES LDA $2002 opcode with the emulation code JSR opcode (forget the name off hand), etc. And the back end emulation code doesn't need to be commented. The idea is to hack the original ROM, not modify the back end code. Plus, the back end code requires intimate knowledge of BOTH the PCE and the NES. I'd have to write a small book explaining all that crap. The scope of the project assumes you're pretty familiar with the NES on a low level and at least a little experienced with the PCE on a low level as well. And it's not like I'm dead (yet); people can ask me questions or for help (as long as I'm not ending up doing all the work for them). This type of project has a close connection/relation to rom and game hacker activity/scene (on a low level. Not just sprite/map/tile hacks). Those guys have no source or any comments. They figure everything out for themselves without anyone holding their hand. This isn't even has hard as that. I honestly and truly think that most dedicated hacker type wouldn't even have made a back end emulation core; they would have just replaced all the sprite/tile/tilemap routines and related data to PCE format. And just leave the initial core game engine/framework intact. This is what the NES 5-in-1 Finland compilation/release does. They actually hacked the game and data, rather than just try to emulate everything.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on March 05, 2012, 08:11:47 AM
My point about comments was that, from a more open sourceable upgrade/fiddle around standpoint, no comments and a mess of assembly will deter most people, and all you'll be left with are the usual cast of hackers that would've done it anyway.
If you take the time to document the process better, it would leave it open for others who are less into hacking to start screwing with the game too. Kind of like how there were tools released to hack Metroid and stuff for NES. Something akin to that for the less-assembly-inclined people who just want to f*ck around with Mega Man games.
but what's the point, really? Like you said, there isn't much interest and there are other remakes of these games already, so, the target audience is fairly small.
I know if this were my project, I wouldn't waste the time to comment it and leave it for others to mess with because I'm like 95% certain noone will really bother anyways. So, it'd be like leaving yourself notes that you don't need. The time could be spent more productively.
A real world example would be post it notes on your computer screen that say things like "Breathe! Don't forget to blink your eyes! If you have to pee, go to the bathroom!" Captain Obvious Ahoy!
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on March 05, 2012, 10:16:32 AM
Quote
...no comments and a mess of assembly will deter most people, and all you'll be left with are the usual cast of hackers that would've done it anyway.
If you take the time to document the process better, it would leave it open for others who are less into hacking to start screwing with the game too. Kind of like how there were tools released to hack Metroid and stuff for NES. Something akin to that for the less-assembly-inclined people who just want to f*ck around with Mega Man games.
But that's exactly the target audience I was hoping to attract. Capable hackers. I wasn't interested in catering to the typical (?) coder or creating tools like editors and such. I'd leave that to the people that normally create such stuff. Most hackers don't even need such tools or just write 'em themselves. So I guess in the end I was just catering to a super niche segment of the community. And being for PCE doesn't help matters much either. If this was for SNES (or even Genesis), you'd probably see a lot more interests on that side of things. Oh well. I'm got my project and goal. No use worrying about the other stuff.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on March 07, 2012, 12:11:11 PM
Got the game today. Uploaded the ISO for ya Bonknuts and PMd ya the link. Gonna be sending the artwork to Sparky for scanning. Fired it up and played level 1 a little bit. The title screen does say MegaMan... The disc and art look REALLY nice. One thing I found weird, and dont quite understand, is that the game consists of two ISO files... :-k
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Black Tiger on March 07, 2012, 02:32:38 PM
Got the game today. Uploaded the ISO for ya Bonknuts and PMd ya the link. Gonna be sending the artwork to Sparky for scanning. Fired it up and played level 1 a little bit. The title screen does say MegaMan... The disc and art look REALLY nice. One thing I found weird, and dont quite understand, is that the game consists of two ISO files... :-k
If you're planning on physically mailing your game to Sparky, I can save you the trouble as the game is already on its way to me and I plan on completely scanning in both Mega Man and SFZ at 300dpi and hosting the files on my webspace for everyone.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on March 08, 2012, 01:18:13 AM
Got the game today. Uploaded the ISO for ya Bonknuts and PMd ya the link. Gonna be sending the artwork to Sparky for scanning. Fired it up and played level 1 a little bit. The title screen does say MegaMan... The disc and art look REALLY nice. One thing I found weird, and dont quite understand, is that the game consists of two ISO files... :-k
Awesome and much thanks :D
I checked it out and it's 0.97 CD build from Feb 2011 (did a binary compare to my different builds). I forgot that I made it two tracks. There's a function in system card where you can setup a redundant track in case the first track fails to read (it's supposed to be automatic process from what I understand. That's why you see CD games with a duplicate data track at the end for two data track setups), but I actually never setup it up in the boot code, so it's kind of useless having two tracks.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: JapanTokei on March 11, 2012, 12:17:13 AM
Berns, is the CD disc actual professional quality press or was it a CDR?
Got the game today. Uploaded the ISO for ya Bonknuts and PMd ya the link. Gonna be sending the artwork to Sparky for scanning. Fired it up and played level 1 a little bit. The title screen does say MegaMan... The disc and art look REALLY nice. One thing I found weird, and dont quite understand, is that the game consists of two ISO files... :-k
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bernie on March 11, 2012, 04:38:50 AM
Its a CDR, however you cannot really tell. Ive never seen CDRs like this. It literally looks like a pressed disc. The disc art is fantastic, and actually part of the disc, not some sticker overlay. The underside of the disc looks JUST like a pressed disc. Its really nice, very nice actually. These were certainly not home burnt discs, and done in a professional manner.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Bonknuts on March 11, 2012, 05:41:48 AM
Yeah, they are supposedly Sony DADC cd-rs. They're specially made and there are places that will professionally burn stuff on them for you, for compatibility with old(er) embedded CDrom systems and such (basically like the old turbo CD and such). There's not just a regular old CDr. Good for very small production runs where you don't want to spend $1000+ on a minimum press order.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on March 12, 2012, 05:17:30 PM
You know, Megaman and other NES games that I've done aren't exactly a secret. I've posted about it on multiple forums over the years and it really didn't generate much interest from what I could tell outside of small handful of people. But I continued to work on tweaking the emulation such on Megaman... because that's my baby. I did it for myself. I play and have played the crap out of MM on my PCE/SGX/Duo system. I mean, all this originally started out as 'hey, look what you can do on the PCE' sort of thing. But it turned into something for myself. I.e. it became a real project instead of just a 'demo' per se. Megaman 1 holds a special place in my memories because besides SMB, it was the first game I had when I bought the NES for myself. I spent that whole summer non stop playing MM, SMB, and Zelda 1.
Anyway, so this MM 'project' has been around for a couple of years. I don't know why it's getting more attention now. Is it because people thought it was a real unreleased beta for the SCD (my blog is getting a lot of traffic for it. Forums, google, etc)? I have Megaman 2 in the works, all prep'd up, and could probably have it up and running within a week (with probably some minor glitches that would have to be worked out in the emulation core. It always works that way. A new game, more emulation support on the back end). I guess I'm subconsciously holding it for ransom or whatever >_>. I dunno. It does irritate me that a lot of the past responses about MM 1 have been, 'mm1 is ok, but mm2 would be great' - etc. I actually do want to upgrade Megaman 1. If I did do Megaman 2, I don't think it needs any upgrading. And, like nat said, other than novelty - what's the point of playing it on the PCE when you can just play it on NES or the Megaman collection for whatever system? I think that holds true for a lot of people (myself excluded though).
I think there are a bunch of factors that determine the extent to which a project gains an audience. I will admit that, until recently, I generally did not spend much time examining emulation/homebrew topics. I read about "NES on PCE", but I never did anything beyond reading/commenting. Simply put, due to limited time, I prioritized the games immediately (physically) in front of me and I didn't have time to consider anything else. I said to myself, "Later, in the future, I'll check out the NES on PCE stuff."
Without sustained support (folks playing and commenting and actively promoting), I can see awareness of a project fade away into the ether.
Next, we have the general lack of love for Mega Man (relative to, say, MM2). Sad, but true. I say, "Do not release MM2 until later!" because you (we) need to foster and nurture some love for MM1.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcg0.html) For the record, the prospect of "upgrading" MM1 with enhanced graphics and music is thrilling.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: BigusSchmuck on March 19, 2012, 04:50:18 PM
You know, Megaman and other NES games that I've done aren't exactly a secret. I've posted about it on multiple forums over the years and it really didn't generate much interest from what I could tell outside of small handful of people. But I continued to work on tweaking the emulation such on Megaman... because that's my baby. I did it for myself. I play and have played the crap out of MM on my PCE/SGX/Duo system. I mean, all this originally started out as 'hey, look what you can do on the PCE' sort of thing. But it turned into something for myself. I.e. it became a real project instead of just a 'demo' per se. Megaman 1 holds a special place in my memories because besides SMB, it was the first game I had when I bought the NES for myself. I spent that whole summer non stop playing MM, SMB, and Zelda 1.
Anyway, so this MM 'project' has been around for a couple of years. I don't know why it's getting more attention now. Is it because people thought it was a real unreleased beta for the SCD (my blog is getting a lot of traffic for it. Forums, google, etc)? I have Megaman 2 in the works, all prep'd up, and could probably have it up and running within a week (with probably some minor glitches that would have to be worked out in the emulation core. It always works that way. A new game, more emulation support on the back end). I guess I'm subconsciously holding it for ransom or whatever >_>. I dunno. It does irritate me that a lot of the past responses about MM 1 have been, 'mm1 is ok, but mm2 would be great' - etc. I actually do want to upgrade Megaman 1. If I did do Megaman 2, I don't think it needs any upgrading. And, like nat said, other than novelty - what's the point of playing it on the PCE when you can just play it on NES or the Megaman collection for whatever system? I think that holds true for a lot of people (myself excluded though).
I think there are a bunch of factors that determine the extent to which a project gains an audience. I will admit that, until recently, I generally did not spend much time examining emulation/homebrew topics. I read about "NES on PCE", but I never did anything beyond reading/commenting. Simply put, due to limited time, I prioritized the games immediately (physically) in front of me and I didn't have time to consider anything else. I said to myself, "Later, in the future, I'll check out the NES on PCE stuff."
Without sustained support (folks playing and commenting and actively promoting), I can see awareness of a project fade away into the ether.
Next, we have the general lack of love for Mega Man (relative to, say, MM2). Sad, but true. I say, "Do not release MM2 until later!" because you (we) need to foster and nurture some love for MM1.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcg0.html) For the record, the prospect of "upgrading" MM1 with enhanced graphics and music is thrilling.
I agree, the psp remake didn't do it enough justice, we really need something like this to get the pce/tg16 homebrewn scene kicking. I for one, would love to see a remake of 1-3 like they did for the megadrive, but super cd style with cutscenes for the robot intros oh my! Or wackier yet, do a Punchout! clone featuring the characters from the bonk series and call it Bonked! :P
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: ccovell on April 18, 2012, 05:04:04 PM
Onto another topic, have you thought of ways to add extra colours to tiles in a natural way?
For example, for BGs you have an additional 12 colours available to be used. You could fill them with a preset palette that you choose so all tiles can use the extra colours at any time. However, for re-used tiles (think SMB1 clouds are also bushes), re-touching tiles with preset colours doesn't work when they're used multiple times with different palettes.
Another option is to interpolate the extra 12 colours from each 4-entry NES palette.
A routine to mix the extra colours from the base 4 shouldn't be too tough... Also, when the game changes palettes, the relationships between all the colours stays logical: (http://www.chrismcovell.com/images/MegaPCEcolsa.gif)
Just an idea... never mind the gaudy over-colouring of my sprite example.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on April 19, 2012, 12:56:01 AM
I wouldn't say "gaudy", Chris, I'd say "enthusiastic" (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html).
Everything you present is tasteful* and extremely polished, but of course you know that already.
* excepting the Tongueman plushie. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: KnightWarrior on August 23, 2012, 06:09:58 PM
Here I would like on the Turbo
3 Castlevania Games 3 Ninja Gaiden Games 3 Double Dragon Game
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: Arkhan on August 24, 2012, 03:10:57 AM
so you only need 2 more of each.
Title: Re: NES emulator
Post by: esteban on August 25, 2012, 04:19:11 AM