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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: nodtveidt on December 25, 2011, 03:01:03 PM
Title: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 25, 2011, 03:01:03 PM
For all of you waiting for updates on this project... I'm bringing in a few updates now.
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0010.html) This is the "dark castle" tileset. A lot of detail for so few colors.
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0016.html) A quick test of the shiny new Shift-JIS based dynamic text render code. All of the text is stored as Shift-JIS characters and is displayed using dynamic tile RAM updating; the font itself is pulled from the system card in realtime. It turned out to be less memory-intensive to just store all the text (even the English text) as Shift-JIS sequences rather than to use a lookup table (since there's so little actual text in the game).
In order to pull off the dialogue, I wrote a script "compiler" specifically for this project that uses my "famous" (haha) ETX scripting format. ETX (Etended TeXt) is a scripting format I developed in the late 1990s for RPG dialogue. It looks a bit like HTML. For the image above, this is the code:
;test script! =english %0 This is a test script! LOGIC! <END>The ; line is a comment line, the = line tells the compiler which language to process, and the % line is an "entry point". The compiler generates the compiled script and a text file that can be copied 'n pasted into the source code that contains the entry points for each dialogue block. This is the method I should have used for MSR, but by the time I came up with it, it was way too late.
So... yeah... that's what's up right now. Oh, and the village shown in the second image has a whole bunch of women wandering around... lol. :) Only one is shown here. Their code is handled by the same code that went into the action scenes; it's based on some code Arkhan used for Insanity that is able to handle a large amount of data way faster than HuC can do by itself.
A new video will be put out once the village is more fleshed out.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 25, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
OK here's another quick test shot from the script function.
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0017.html)
Yeah, I put a chick on the roof. :) The main thing of this shot was... I took a count of the unique colors... 86 in total. 86 freakin' unique colors. As Fragmare said before... the PCE is a palette monster. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nectarsis on December 25, 2011, 03:14:35 PM
REALLY digging the "dark castle" tileset pic.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: roflmao on December 25, 2011, 03:38:42 PM
Rover, you are a god. Wow, very impressive stuff.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: cabbage on December 25, 2011, 04:22:13 PM
Looks like the project is progressing nicely! Those screenshots are excellent and now I'm looking forward to the new video. Thanks for sharing and especially for including "some technical mumbo jumbo" :D
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: HercTNT on December 25, 2011, 04:30:05 PM
completely agree! I love the sliver moon in the back ground, its a really nice touch.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 03:36:46 AM
I've been verifying the character set lookup table inside the compiler... so far so good. Had to make a few changes, and made some minor code tweaks in the script decoder inside the game code. I was running into a weird VRAM usage issue that hopefully doesn't cause any problems when it comes to doing the Japanese text. It's not a problem for the English text since English tends to use a lot of spaces, but such is not the case in Japanese so hopefully I can figure out a way to deal with the problem if it arises. Starting at a lower VRAM address will probably solve it.
Man... I really should have done something like this for MSR... oh well. Lesson learned. :) Now, changing text is just a matter of making changes to the script file, running it through the compiler, then copy-n-pasting the entry point list into the game code. Freakin' easy peasy. With MSR, the script file gets changed too, but then I have to manually go into MSR's source code and update every f*cking text pointer by hand. This can take hours, depending on how much data got moved around.
Anyway, today I'll be adding more of the control set to the script compiler, and will probably finish the NPC collision stuff so it will actually work like a real dialogue system (right now, you just press SELECT to bring up a pre-set dialogue sequence... works great for testing but is obviously useless in a real game). I also plan on finishing at least the outside of the village. NPC movement is kinda like Cadash meets Zelda 2... some NPCs move in pre-set patterns (like in Cadash), and some just walk and walk and walk and if they go off the map bounds, they just respawn on the other side (like in Zelda 2).
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: TheOldMan on December 26, 2011, 04:15:51 AM
Quote
Man... I really should have done something like this for MSR... oh well. Lesson learned. Smile
Only one of many, I'm sure :)
Quote
changing text is just a matter of making changes to the script file, running it through the compiler, then copy-n-pasting the entry point list into the game code
Why not make the compiler dump the entry point list to a text file, and include it in the source? (Just Curious).
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 26, 2011, 04:37:56 AM
how bout all the fancy databloblolomgsomanyenemies stuff? :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 04:39:25 AM
Quote
Why not make the compiler dump the entry point list to a text file, and include it in the source? (Just Curious).
They reside in different directories. When the compiler is finished, I'll probably copy it over to the game directory, but for now, this is a terribly minor detail and it sure beats the snot out of the method used for MSR. :) It already dumps the entry point list to a text file. I could probably just copy the file itself into the game directory to save an extra 2 seconds, hehe.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 05:07:00 AM
OK... monkeying around a bit more, I've added bold text.
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0018.html)
It works by taking each of the 32 bytes in the font buffer, then calculating a shifted value in both directions, then ORing the results back onto the data.
for(checkx1=0;checkx1<32;checkx1++) { highbyte = bytebuffer[checkx1] << 1; lowbyte = bytebuffer[checkx1] >> 1; bytebuffer[checkx1] = bytebuffer[checkx1] | highbyte | lowbyte; }which works ok. The only problem with this is that the text is stored character-by-character in the buffer, so bits on the edges are lost, producing some very obvious seams. This can be remedied by using the buffer as a per-line buffer rather than a per-character buffer, but the amount of work required to get the pixels onscreen goes up by quite a bit. However, doing that also opens the possibility of adding italics as well, so it'll be implemented at some point here.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 05:42:59 AM
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0019.html) Figured it might be useful to include the ability for English text to directly specify Shift-JIS characters. Might have limited use, but for any characters which aren't included in the supported 95 character Roman lookup table, it might serve a purpose. The Japanese script parser already reads strings of Shift-JIS sequences.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: TheOldMan on December 26, 2011, 05:48:33 AM
Quote
I could probably just copy the file itself into the game directory to save an extra 2 seconds, hehe.
Or you could just specify where the file is in the include line.... (ie, .include "../dir1/dir2/file.txt" ). It does work in Huc, but may take a bit of experimenting to get the right location. We do it to keep graphics and such out of the way :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 05:55:00 AM
Yeah, I could probably do that. I normally store things in subdirectories of the project directory... only source files go in the project directory proper. The script file, for example, goes in ./binscripts with all the other datablob-type stuff. Keeps things organized better if I have to move project folders around for backups or whatnot.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 26, 2011, 06:11:42 AM
Insanity was one big folder of shit for awhile.
Then, that stopped right away and now it doesn't happen anymore. lol
iirc, it uses / not \ even if you're on Windows. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 06:39:14 AM
Yep. If you want to use \, you have to use \\ anyway. It makes more sense to just use / since it's supported by HuC, and it's universal. Using \\ if you're compiling in Unix makes shit go boom (already done it, so I know).
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 03:23:05 PM
Language select screen.
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0027.html)
There's no Japanese currently in the game, so if you select it and try to talk to people in the village, you get the first English text blurb (since the Japanese pointers are all set to 0).
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: blueraven on December 26, 2011, 05:00:54 PM
MONOLITH
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 26, 2011, 05:12:38 PM
Yep. If you want to use \, you have to use \\ anyway. It makes more sense to just use / since it's supported by HuC, and it's universal. Using \\ if you're compiling in Unix makes shit go boom (already done it, so I know).
yeah, the \\ is implied when you use \ in C.
At least, if you have half a f*ckin brain. :D
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 26, 2011, 05:23:37 PM
A quick look at the staff list at Adobe proves that not all programmers have even half a brain. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: incrediblehark on December 26, 2011, 07:06:21 PM
This game is looking very impressive and fun, looking forward to playing it! You are one clever man
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 27, 2011, 12:32:04 PM
New prototype video:
Shows off multiple moving NPCs with working interaction, multi-layer parallax scrolling (as usual), lots of new artwork from Paul, fully functional enemies, and a new boss fight.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: henrycsc on December 27, 2011, 01:23:43 PM
demo video looks great!
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: roflmao on December 27, 2011, 01:26:28 PM
Wow, that looks awesome!
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 27, 2011, 01:42:31 PM
:)
My only complaint is that the text is kinda sprawled out. the spacing feels like it needs to be tighter, to me.
I like the town parallax. The whole atmosphere of the towns reminds me of Zelda II alot.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 27, 2011, 02:01:23 PM
Yeah, the huge text is kinda a bugger, but it's because it's pulled from the system card in realtime. I could implement a static 8x16 font if need be, though.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 27, 2011, 02:50:09 PM
The Cosmic Fantasy 2 font was pretty legit, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 27, 2011, 02:52:22 PM
Yeah, the CF2 font was pretty nice. Maybe I could swipe it, hehe. :)
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0031.html) Tatsujin translated all the text from the first village, so... there ya go. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 27, 2011, 03:13:26 PM
See, the moon runes look fine in that font. It's just the round eye that looks retarded.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 27, 2011, 03:40:38 PM
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0032.html) Village name translated as well.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 27, 2011, 04:04:47 PM
Hmm. I feel like it should be Norumandoru, or something.
Doesn't that say "noomandoru"
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 27, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
The original text says "Normandor". Tatsujin translated it to ノーマンドル and SuperDeadite confirmed that it's good, so... we be all good here. :D
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 27, 2011, 05:36:07 PM
I guess either works really. It's not like there are severe rules for making round eye words in Katakana.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on December 28, 2011, 12:47:34 PM
The original text says "Normandor". Tatsujin translated it to ノーマンドル and SuperDeadite confirmed that it's good, so... we be all good here. :D
That is an acceptable way, but I think "ノルマンドル" is just as likely a candidate, and I think I've seen more English words with "or" in them translated as "oru" instead of "oo". The Japanese are nothing if not inconsistent.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 28, 2011, 02:51:02 PM
Well, I don't plan on changing it now. :) hehe :) but yeah... it seems there's more than one way of doing things. Hell, SD and Tats had different ideas about the particular dialect used...
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on December 28, 2011, 03:17:55 PM
Find out how Japan romanizes "Normandy" and you've got it. : )
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 28, 2011, 03:49:01 PM
Well, I don't plan on changing it now. :) hehe :) but yeah... it seems there's more than one way of doing things. Hell, SD and Tats had different ideas about the particular dialect used...
When it comes to katakana9000ing stuff, there is definitely more than one way. I got multiple ways to do Insanity, and picked the one I liked the most.
Noomandoru and Norumandoru are both acceptable, I just prefer the ru as much as possible. :)
Google translate refers to both of them as "Norman US Dollar"
so, Nooman Doru and Noruman Doru, lol
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 29, 2011, 02:18:23 AM
Norman US Dollar? Wtf. lol
The name "Normandor" comes from a modification of "Cormantor", which was one of the original cities in the game world. When Charlie (not MacDonald... this particular Charlie isn't part of the PCE scene) and I were designing the game world, he named a city "Cormantor", and it was the first city you reach in the game. The first village wasn't named at that point, and the name "Normandor" just kinda popped into my head. The name worked, so the name stuck.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 29, 2011, 02:32:58 AM
Well, Doru = Dollar
and Noruman, well, duh.
:D
WELCOME TO TOWN NORMAN US DOLLAR!
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 29, 2011, 02:04:06 PM
The Roman font on the system card really was bugging me, so I modified the script compiler to spit out regular ASCII characters for the English text, modified the in-game script process to support new subcode 0x09 for direct Shift-JIS character entry, and loaded in a pre-made 8x16 font. The end result:
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0037.html) Much better, methinks. :) And of course, I can change the font at any time to something new... if need be.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 29, 2011, 03:38:05 PM
yes, that font is far better than the other stretchy one.
I mean it still sucks, but hey, I'm picky. >=)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 29, 2011, 03:51:34 PM
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 29, 2011, 05:20:54 PM
needs more fixedsys, ;)
You know you like it. Cmon, show everyone!
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 29, 2011, 05:48:19 PM
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0040.html)
Public opinion seems split between these two images... the second one above, and this one right here. The second one above is nice because it's clean and Falcom-ish, and this one's good because it's uniform and solid.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: esteban on December 29, 2011, 07:03:42 PM
The easiest (and best) way to compare the fonts was to stack 'em together:
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/monolith_font.html)
(A) is nice in isolation, but clearly not as fluid and graceful as (B). It may be possible to salvage (A) by adjusting the overall tracking (spacing) between all the letters (but that would require a lot of work, and I don't know if there is any extra room in the individual tiles.) Kerning between certain letter combos is also an issue, but tracking would probably solve most of (A)'s shortcoming.
(B) is truly elegant and charming. It doesn't seem to offer as much contrast with the background as (A) or (B). Odd, since (A) and (B) are not much different. (B) is the sans serif version of (A), with pussy-footed dots over the "i".
(C) is [bold] and easy to read even when you are sleepy and about to enter the land of Nod. I think it is easy to read, but it does seem a bit heavy-handed compared to (B), no? (B) sharply contrasts with the background, which definitely improves its readability.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Keranu on December 29, 2011, 08:12:57 PM
My opinion: whatever is most readable on a TV! :D
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Necromancer on December 30, 2011, 02:08:06 AM
By the way... if the Cosmic Fantasy 2 and Ys fonts were readable on a real TV... any one of these will be as well.
But didn't CF and Ys use black backgrounds?
yes. and that is where the difference lies.
It's been proven that blue backgrounds w/ white text or black text on yellow backgrounds are the easiest to read.
It's obvious that white + blue is a better choice to stare at though.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: esteban on December 30, 2011, 06:22:44 AM
At first I didn't like the newest two fonts added (D) & (E). But, actually, they aren't that bad... and (D) has more flair than (E), if I had to choose between the two. I think I prefer (D) over (C), even.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on December 30, 2011, 07:33:22 AM
I still say C. C is the easiest to read without looking ugly. Since you have decided to use a patterned text box, I'd say C is your best bet. If you opt, instead, for a solid or gradient text box you would still need to fix some of the weird spacing issues with A or B.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 30, 2011, 08:02:49 AM
C is going to be the easiest to read in general; it's nothing more than the standard DOS font. It was designed to be functional rather than stylish.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 30, 2011, 08:19:15 AM
The easiest (and best) way to compare the fonts was to stack 'em together:
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/monolith_font.html)
(A) is nice in isolation, but clearly not as fluid and graceful as (B). It may be possible to salvage (A) by adjusting the overall tracking (spacing) between all the letters (but that would require a lot of work, and I don't know if there is any extra room in the individual tiles.) Kerning between certain letter combos is also an issue, but tracking would probably solve most of (A)'s shortcoming.
(B) is truly elegant and charming. It doesn't seem to offer as much contrast with the background as (A) or (B). Odd, since (A) and (B) are not much different. (B) is the sans serif version of (A), with pussy-footed dots over the "i".
(C) is [bold] and easy to read even when you are sleepy and about to enter the land of Nod. I think it is easy to read, but it does seem a bit heavy-handed compared to (B), no? (B) sharply contrasts with the background, which definitely improves its readability.
I really like C, but A and B don't feel right. The spacing between words needs to narrow just a bit.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: incrediblehark on December 30, 2011, 08:49:29 AM
now you are just making excuses because you hate Fixedsys. :)
One might think. :P But alas, no... I need to be 100% certain I can use it. I'm going to add a font selector anyway, a la Ys I & II. I seem to remember a loophole in the copyright law regarding fonts... it seems to be that it's illegal to use a protected font file in a commercial product without proper legal authorization, but not illegal to use the font face itself. Gonna call up my old attorney when he gets back from vacation and get the details.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: esteban on December 31, 2011, 01:14:24 AM
It is so sad that (B) isn't winning everyone over, and that (D) and (E) aren't getting any love at all.
If the font selector is implemented, and if Fixedsys is available to use, please put it at the END of the list.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: RegalSin on December 31, 2011, 01:23:04 AM
Seriously
font C is the same font used in every translated Square RPG
A and B look simular. What about the original Lufia font??
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 31, 2011, 03:12:43 AM
The first one I used was A. I then personally modified A to make B. C was Arkhan's idea. D is one I had in my original fonts collection, and E is one I found while looking for more fonts.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on December 31, 2011, 03:50:42 AM
I think A looks fine from a lettering standpoint, but it needs some of the spacing fixed, and I think if you go with that you'll want to tone down the text-box pattern and go with something a little more discreet and a little less busy.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on December 31, 2011, 04:28:28 AM
You can change the text box background as well; the purple one is just the default. There are several patterned backgrounds, a couple of gradient ones, and of course solid colors too. You can also manually adjust the colors of them all, including the textured ones.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on December 31, 2011, 04:40:09 AM
You can change the text box background as well; the purple one is just the default. There are several patterned backgrounds, a couple of gradient ones, and of course solid colors too. You can also manually adjust the colors of them all, including the textured ones.
I have no objections to people being able to shoot themselves in the ass as long as the defaults are reasonable together and there are ways for people not to shoot themselves in the ass. I would suggest a solid color or gradient as the default instead of the purple pattern. Keep it simple.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on December 31, 2011, 05:50:59 AM
UPDATE: Oh, I see why--in 43, the "h" is wider, the "t" adds a pixel "tail" to the bottom serif. Anyway, I still like the modified version, but kerning issues have arisen. This is why I would go CRZY and never be able to design fonts. :)
It's all good. I like these fonts. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 01, 2012, 01:35:09 AM
My goal for 2012 is to release no less than 3 games for the PCE... MSR will come first, followed by this, and then followed by either Jungle Bros, Xymati, or the secret project Fragmare and I are on right now. :P
Anyway... I'm working on the forest scene today. It's a minor nightmare. But hey... no text in it. :)
UPDATE: Oh, I see why--in 43, the "h" is wider, the "t" adds a pixel "tail" to the bottom serif. Anyway, I still like the modified version, but kerning issues have arisen. This is why I would go CRZY and never be able to design fonts. :)
It's all good. I like these fonts. :)
When it comes to fonts like this, it's virtually impossible to find the kerning sweet spot. One way I might be able to pull it off is to use a separation of 2 pixels... but then text might end up looking detached in some places. Certain characters will work with certain other characters and look bad next to certain other characters.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on January 01, 2012, 03:59:28 AM
Your modifications have helped, especially for the "l" in the example. Yeah, the C and H are a little closer, but not enough to cause problems, I think. You win!
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 01, 2012, 05:18:10 PM
At last... the elusive forest scene.
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0045.html)
The first half of it anyway. This screenshot really doesn't do it justice... a video is in order to show off its Genesis-like parallax. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: esteban on January 01, 2012, 06:39:35 PM
UPDATE: Oh, I see why--in 43, the "h" is wider, the "t" adds a pixel "tail" to the bottom serif. Anyway, I still like the modified version, but kerning issues have arisen. This is why I would go CRZY and never be able to design fonts. :)
It's all good. I like these fonts. :)
When it comes to fonts like this, it's virtually impossible to find the kerning sweet spot. One way I might be able to pull it off is to use a separation of 2 pixels... but then text might end up looking detached in some places. Certain characters will work with certain other characters and look bad next to certain other characters.
Absolutely, I hear you. :) Like I said, I would go crazy trying to tweak an existing font. I like what you did, but now you can move forward onto bigger, better things.
I gotta say, I find the jump sound to be too prominent and a little too cartoony. Maybe if it had a volume reduction or something...
Yeah, everytime I play a demo, I'm less & less enthused by the jumping sound.
I don't recall if this has been discussed, & maybe it's a no brainer. What are people's feelings on when an enemy or the player gets hit? I personally don't like it the way it is, seems like they should flash or something so you can still see them, though, maybe the way it is, is just temporary, I don't recall :-k
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 02, 2012, 05:54:12 PM
They DO flash... you obviously haven't been playing the prototypes. :P
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on January 02, 2012, 07:38:35 PM
Hmm, in ME they just disapear. Maybe the word I'm searching for is flicker? :-s
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 03, 2012, 01:24:32 AM
THIS GAME SUCKS I HAT EIT.
/end obligatory naysaying.
:3
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 03, 2012, 01:46:09 AM
Then ME is skipping frames. The game relies on a consistent 60fps, like the real machine does. Anything less than that is going to look wrong, and that's why the youtube videos never come out exactly right; they cut it to 30fps, so things don't look right.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: grahf on January 03, 2012, 01:58:04 AM
Wow, looking really good so far. Nice parallax! The character's mouth looks a little funny during the down-thrust, but the animation is pretty good.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 03, 2012, 05:58:21 AM
PD, you might have to run the protos in mednafen to get stuff to look right...
New screenie today:
(http://www.nodtveidt.net/monolith-0046.html)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on January 03, 2012, 06:30:00 AM
The backgrounds really are attractive. That's some very good color use.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 03, 2012, 06:57:15 AM
Paul really knows how to utilize color range to maximum effect. The actual unique color count in the forest is quite low (51 colors in that shot, that includes the hud and character sprite). The village, on the other hand... although it looks a bit "busy" at times, the color diversity looks low at first glance. However, the actual unique color count is rather high, exceeding 80 most of the time for the inclusive scene.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 03, 2012, 07:04:39 AM
Paul is a shading mastermind. Look at the crap he pulled off in the Atlantean screenshots too! (That look kinda crapass in an emulator, to be honest).
We have a new secret weapon in OBEYbrew land, and his name is Sunteam_Paul.
Look out Segatards.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 03, 2012, 01:17:32 PM
So I'm wondering what to do about the jump sound... maybe make it more like Exile's?
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on January 03, 2012, 01:50:35 PM
So I'm wondering what to do about the jump sound... maybe make it more like Exile's?
Hmm, IIRC, that's more of a subtle woosh type sound....for lack of a better term? Or it's some kind of quiet clicking sound, that might be a more accurate description? That does seem like a good idea. Maybe that jump sound will end up being better used in VM instead. It seemed less noticeable in that from what I recall.
As for ME, that stinks, oh well.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 03, 2012, 01:54:41 PM
ME doesn't tend to like anything I code, lol. :) It really shows its weaknesses.
The original jump sample in Monolith was copied from VM, and is also present in JB. I'll replace it with something more subtle. I don't want Monolith to completely lose its cartoon appeal, of course, but maybe making the samples a bit more serious might help the overall tone... the graphics aren't all that cartooney so it might be more fitting to take the samples in a different direction.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 03, 2012, 04:54:26 PM
the jump effect is too long. thats the problem. It sounds more like a noise when you land on a slime than anything.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on January 03, 2012, 05:44:39 PM
Hmmmmm, you may be right, maybe it could stay the same but sped up.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 04, 2012, 12:38:29 AM
Or make it a quieter/less dry noise.
wet jump noises work better.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Black Tiger on January 04, 2012, 04:58:06 AM
It probably just sounds weird to some people since jump sound effects are usually used in more cartoony games and more serious looking games like this tend to only use landing or step off sound effects.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 04, 2012, 05:09:30 AM
Hrm... that's true... though I experimented with removing the jump sample altogether and something just didn't seem right about it... but maybe it'd be welcomed by others.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 04, 2012, 05:27:15 AM
the jump noise isn't necessary if you are ok with removing it.
Zelda II has no jump sounds.
and when you say "jump sample", do you mean you are using ADPCM for the jump sound? use teh PSGGGG-unit.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: sunteam_paul on January 04, 2012, 05:45:20 AM
The jump sound doesn't bother me at all, but having no jump sound would.
Perhaps go the route of games like City Hunter, Cross Wiber and Daimakaimura and have simple white noise effects for jumping and landing.
I think people are mostly noticing it because they are watching a video with lots of jumping rather than concentrating on playing the game.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 04, 2012, 06:39:54 AM
Ark, the jump sound is from the PSG, but it's still made of samples, hence sample. :D ADPCM is used sparingly in Monolith; the sword attack sound and the level up sound are ADPCM but for now, that's it. Everything else is PSG-based.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 04, 2012, 06:52:18 AM
Ark, the jump sound is from the PSG, but it's still made of samples, hence sample. :D ADPCM is used sparingly in Monolith; the sword attack sound and the level up sound are ADPCM but for now, that's it. Everything else is PSG-based.
Why are you using samples for that. just set a 32 byte waveform (sine or squareish), and make a jump sound...
or are you being a nitpicking twat and you mean "hurhurhurhrrrr the waveforms are ALL samples hrurhuhurrrururururhrur"
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 04, 2012, 07:08:35 AM
Why are you using samples for that. just set a 32 byte waveform (sine or squareish), and make a jump sound...
Dude, wtf do you think it is? "Just make a jump sound"... yeah, "just make a game" while yer at it. :P
I mean are you using the sample mode or are you just setting a 32 byte waveform and having it go "bwoop".
When you use the word "sample", it's usually implying that you're sampling the sound from an external source and playing it back. Like shitty Amiga games.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 04, 2012, 07:20:41 AM
Just setting a 32 byte waveform and monkeying with it, like normal PSG users do.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 04, 2012, 08:13:37 AM
And no shitty Amiga games here. mwuahaha
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 04, 2012, 10:51:13 AM
Just setting a 32 byte waveform and monkeying with it, like normal PSG users do.
thats not a sample, you tard.
if you want to nitpick and argue semantics, let me make it easy:
No.
:)
just speed the tempo up just a little, and then drop it down about 2 steps. Then, change the waveform to something more sinelike. see what that do, sucka
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 04, 2012, 11:54:20 AM
The tempo was already at its highest speed; I'll just cut half the steps and do some other tweaking.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on January 04, 2012, 04:26:39 PM
I can't imagine the game without a jump sound, I believe it's gotta be there. I think it's mainly in area's where there's a ton of constant jumping further up in the castle where it seems like it's a bit much for me personally.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 05, 2012, 12:29:13 AM
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: incrediblehark on January 05, 2012, 01:36:35 AM
I'm all for a jump sound as long as it doesn't detract from the rest of the games sound effects and bgm, there were little to no sound effects for jumping in castlevania and mega man and worked out just fine.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on January 05, 2012, 02:19:04 AM
mega man had an awesome land-noise though
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 05, 2012, 05:48:58 AM
Indeed. I had even played MM1, but I didn't think it was particularly captivating. It was only after playing MM2 that many of us went back to MM1 and gave it another chance. MM2 was so easy--MM1 provided a challenge yet was not nearly as charming.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on January 07, 2012, 05:23:52 AM
Try MM2 on Hard. That's the normal difficulty in the home country.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Father5&JoshUnion on January 12, 2012, 06:39:43 AM
I'm curious if the moon will change from waxing crescent during gameplay. If not, I would assume I should be able to play through it in only one night.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on January 12, 2012, 07:32:08 AM
The game storyline takes place over the course of a few weeks, so... nope, not one night. :) You might be able to play it through in one night... well ok, if you have absolutely no life and have either mad platforming skills or find some way to cheat... :D
Most towns have a "time of day" parameter that affects their appearance.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: esteban on January 14, 2012, 02:12:07 AM
Most towns have a "time of day" parameter that affects their appearance.
That's very kool :) The first thing that popped into my mind when I read that was Castlevania II...and then Victory Run. :)
Do you have enough smilies there, Steve? :)
I'm just so damn happy :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: farankoshan on February 12, 2012, 02:42:08 PM
Sorry to ask if this is stupid, but is this game available on a physical disc/Hucard to play on a real system to get the full experience? :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nat on February 12, 2012, 05:10:29 PM
Now I haven't been following this too closely, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but currently no "game" exists to release on either disc or cartridge.
I believe it's just a project someone is working on, that may eventually get released at some point in the future.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: spenoza on February 12, 2012, 05:11:06 PM
This game is not yet available. It is still in development.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Arkhan on February 12, 2012, 05:11:34 PM
This is Rovers post MSR game. It's a CD game.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 12, 2012, 07:31:52 PM
One of 2 post MSR games, as this & Jungle Bros. are being worked on side by side, using the same basic engine, so it's a race to the finish line to see which game is done first! I know I have plenty of music to do for JB, but the music for Monolith is all done, so, in that respect, Monolith is ahead of JB. I'm not sure which one has more sprite/tile work done, I'm inclined to say JB.
Oh, & yes Monolith, as well as Jungle Bros. will be fully pressed cd releases just like Mysterious Song Roto-rootered!
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: DHG Hunter on June 29, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
This has been some time coming (sorry!), but I finally got a chance to set up a new capture card and put a video of Monolith up from the Midwest Gaming Classic 2013 prototype:
I didn't get much more than a few second to play it at the MGC, so this was the first time I really got a solid chance to play. I gotta hand it to you guys... Very nicely done! It certainly helps that this is probably my favorite game type out there, but everything about the game at this early stage looks and plays outstanding! I can't wait to play the final game! :D
Later.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on June 29, 2013, 05:07:45 PM
That was definitely not a demo-worthy build of the game... :lol:
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: esteban on June 29, 2013, 07:47:22 PM
This was the Midwest Gaming Classic demo. It is on its way to me for safe keeping. :)
How did it get out though? I don't remember sending anyone a disc, and I certainly would not have sent out such an early version... that build is so antique, its legs got termites. :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Mathius on June 30, 2013, 03:46:02 PM
This was the Midwest Gaming Classic demo. It is on its way to me for safe keeping. :)
How did it get out though? I don't remember sending anyone a disc, and I certainly would not have sent out such an early version... that build is so antique, its legs got termites. :)
I believe Keranu supplied it. He joined us on that Saturday, I believe. Nice guy!
We didn't do anything sneaky to get it. :P
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Tatsujin on June 30, 2013, 03:48:41 PM
monolith must get finished :)
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: nodtveidt on June 30, 2013, 05:40:43 PM
No. I only demoed Mysterious Song back in like 2010.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: DHG Hunter on July 01, 2013, 01:22:25 PM
IMHO, the proto - even in this early stage - was pretty amazing and very much an enjoyable game! The only issue we had with it at the MGC was the fact that if someone died it wouldn't revert back to the title screen, so we had to do a soft reset on it for the folks that didn't know how to do that on a PCE/Turbo. Other than that, it was absolutely fine. Nobody expected a completed game at the show and everybody that played it came away impressed with it! :)
Later.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: DHG Hunter on July 01, 2013, 01:48:55 PM
Looks like a lot of fun. The character still seems to move just a hair too fast, though. Looks like some of those jumping bits could get frustrating.
I played it once before recording to test out the pass-through on my capture card and had absolutely no problems with the platforming stuff. Then of course when I began recording I missed a jump or two and one time fell quite a ways. I ended up leaving it in the recording because while it maybe didn't make my game playing look perfect (heh), it served to show that long falls didn't kill the character or harm him at least in this proto. I'm typically not someone that likes putting an "until I die" video up on YouTube without at least playing it a bit before recording, but IMHO it sometimes makes for a better video because folks can learn more about the game's penalties and obstacles than simply playing a perfect game.
Later.
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: seieienbu on July 02, 2013, 12:04:48 AM
Any chance I could here more about where you guys were demo-ing the game?
Title: Re: Progress on Project MONOLITH... some technical mumbo jumbo inside
Post by: Mathius on July 02, 2013, 02:36:51 AM