PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: soop on February 01, 2012, 02:28:05 AM
-
I was just thinking... unlike most consoles.. ever, the PC Engine never came with a 2p controller port. However, there's a fair few awesome multiplayer games on the system, so was it a genius move? I mean you have one and you want two. So you'd buy a multitap, and (as long as you bought the good one) now you have 5. And probably an extra pad too. So if a friend pops around with his control pad, you can have a 3 player game. etc etc.
I guess the point is, multitaps for the PC Engine were probably (I'm guessing) more prevalent for this system than others at the time? Who here had a multitap back in the day?
It was probably more so in Japan TBH given its prevelance there. Maybe I should have posted this in the PCE/SGX thread... meh
-
Or they figured that most gamers have no friends and stay holed up in their rooms alone playing games all night. And they were right.
-
yeah, there is some truth to that.
But good lord, we have some fantastic multiplayer games on this system. Motoroader, Bomberman, Street Fighter II - the PC Engine is possibly the best party system.
At the moment, I've been grabbing up gameboy multiplayer games, and GBA multiboot carts. Then I stuff 'em in my bag whenever I meet friends out so we can play bomberman at the pub or something. You know I'd take a PC Engine if it was possible (not a GT though, 2 players is not enough for bomberman!)
-
I bought a TurboTap and extra Turbopads asap. I did the same with DuoTap/Pads after I got a TurboDuo. The Taps and Pads were so cheap that it never seemedclike a big deal and the Turbo/Duo pads were a premium controller at a budget controller price.
My friends and I had lots of fun playing Bomberman, Bomberman '93, Motoroader, Dungeon Explorer, Dungeon Explorer II and as a side benefit, 2 player games like Aeroblasters, Monster Lair and SFII'.
I knew many people who bought and rented multi-taps for NES and SNES who never had any fun with 3+ player games and wasted their money. My Genesis and SNES fanboy friends had as more fun playing 3+ Turbo games than any 2+ player games for Genesis or SNES and that includes street fighting games.
-
All of what you say is probably true, except for the party game system part. I'd actually argue Saturn or Gamecube on that front. Death Tank Zwei and Bomberman SS (Saturn) are amazing. Pac Man Versus and Kinnikuman are pretty awesome as well.
When you look at an original PC Engine...there really isn't much room for another controller port. The thing is puny. Of course on the TG-16 there is room for a dozen or so, even at their WTF increased size. I think this "one controller port" thing was really just NEC grabbing money left and right with high margin accessories. They did it all through the life of the system.
-
When you look at an original PC Engine...there really isn't much room for another controller port. The thing is puny. Of course on the TG-16 there is room for a dozen or so, even at their WTF increased size. I think this "one controller port" thing was really just NEC grabbing money left and right with high margin accessories. They did it all through the life of the system.
EXACTLY. I didn't fall for that crap even as a young punk, I knew better than to be duped into buying a ton of extra stuff just to have what should have been built-in already.
I've always felt that this is one of the moves made by NEC where they shot themselves in the foot.
-
I don't know about "shooting themselves in the foot". Because the system required a multitap, everyone ended up getting one. Because of this PCE owners have a much more intimate understanding of how awesome Bomberman really is. Everyone wins.
It would be nice if they had made a few more multiplayer games though...
-
I'm curious how many people who owned one of the systems back in the day didn't have taps. I know I had one for both TG16 and later the Duo.
-
Well, I do have a Turbo Tap that I found in a second hand store that is currently in storage out at my Dad's place with some other cool stuff I haven't seen in years but, if all goes well, I should be getting a Duo Tap soon and then I'll set out to get a few Duo Pads.
EDIT: I wonder if the batts in my keyboard are starting to go dead. I keep having to go back and add missed words to my posts. :-k
-
Yeah, I always wonder why they didn't incorporate at least one other controller port on the later systems like the DUO, as there was plenty of room. But maybe it had something to do with the wiring? As in the multitaps can have up to five controllers attached to one port, but if you already split it to two separate ports on the console, would it still be able to recognize a multitap attached to one of the ports? I mean I'm sure they could have figured out a way, but it's a possibility at least. Maybe they didn't want to screw the people who had a multitap and five controllers who bought a later system only capable of playing two.
-
Until Bomberman games came out on the PCE there where just few multiplayer games requiring the multi-tap. Anyway, since bomberman requires more than two ports in most of the cases, even a 2nd port at the console itself wouldn't have been enuff, and a multi-tap was required either way.
-
It was all purely for add-on sales. Classic retail strategy.
-
Maybe they didn't want to screw the people who had a multitap and five controllers who bought a later system only capable of playing two.
Heh heh, no. NEC is not that considerate. This is the company that sold both the Turbo Booster, and the Turbo Booster Plus, in the US even. They had zero shame.
-
It was all purely for add-on sales. Classic retail strategy.
Yep! Just like with the Turbo Booster and Turbo Booster Plus. I've often wondered if they ever stopped to think about the way Turbo Booster owners felt when the Plus version came out or if they even cared.
-
I was a sucker for buying all of the attachements.. ... but i am happy i did, i never sold my games nor my systems.
I have both my original turbo grafx 16 with CD as well as the turbo duo. I really did think this system was great at the time,
but trying to convince everyone else was virtually impossible because the big N really had a hold on a lot of great games
from 3rd party companies.
But back to the question. I did buy the Tap 4 other conotrollers the Plus and then got the turbo duo got the attachement to use my tap as well.
-
Speaking of multiple controllers, was there any option for Duo owners other than the standard duo controller? Did anyone sell import controllers on a signifigant scale? Were there any domestic competitors?
-
Speaking of multiple controllers, was there any option for Duo owners other than the standard duo controller? Did anyone sell import controllers on a signifigant scale? Were there any domestic competitors?
PC Engine controllers use a smaller socket, so they don't fit. I bought a turbo extension lead before realising it was too big.
-
Speaking of multiple controllers, was there any option for Duo owners other than the standard duo controller? Did anyone sell import controllers on a signifigant scale? Were there any domestic competitors?
I never saw any other controller options in local stores (excepting the converter cables), but never missed 'em. DuoPads were comfy, durable, and cheap enough to keep me happy.
PC Engine controllers use a smaller socket, so they don't fit.
Guy was asking about stuff for the TurboDuo, which uses the same mini-DIN plugs as PCE stuff.
-
At least NEC/TTi didn't charge extra for games on average and in some cases way more for incorporated hardware, cart size, genre, etc. I don't know what everything retailed for in the U.S., but everywhere I went regular Genesis and SNES games were $10+ more than Turbo games and you could buy a TurboChip or CD gane + Tap + Pad all for the price of either Chrono Trigger or Phantasy Star IV. Turbo games plus Turbo CD/Booster/Tap hardware actually cost me the same as or less than Genesis/SNES games plus hardware in the long run.
NEC/TTi never released Turbo versions of U-Force, NES Max, light guns, power pad, Activator, roller ball controller, left handed stick shift style joy stick, 3D glasses, power glove, etc and we actually got games that alone made a Tap a worthwhile investment. Sega and Nintendo knew full well that they were selling snake oil to kids with useless crap like the Activator and Power Glove. At least the Tap and even Boosters had a practical use.
Turbo/Duo Pads come with built-in Turbo switches. Sega and Nintendo made you buy entire new controllers at a premium just for rapid fire. The Super CD card cost at least half as much as the 32X and was supported with better software. You could buyva Turbo-CD plus System 3 card tor tge price of the 32X. The TurboDuo cost as much as the Sega-CD add-on alone and was supported by better software.
The TurboDuo required a Tap for 2+ players, but it also came with Ys I & II, Gate of Thunder, Bonk's Adventure, Bonk's Revenge, Ninja Spirit and Bomberman -which alone justified the purchase of the DuoTap.
I never got composite out if a Genesis until I bought a CDX and even then, I had to spend the price of a Turbo Booster to buy a model 2 Genesis RF switch, just to he able to play it on the average TV set.
They could have even created a new format for Turbo Express games, perhaps as simple as leaving them PCE region and forced people to buy entire new games like Sega did with the Game Gear. But they didn't.
If Nec/TTi were scheming to make money through trickery, then they were the least bad of the three 16-bit console makers.
I wrote TTi a letter telling them, among other things, that RPG was my favorite genre. They sent me a brand new RPG and a t-shirt. Sega and Nintendo coukdn't be bothered to even write back. When I sent my TG-16 in to be repaired, NEC sent me back a new one with KC, a TurboPad, all the hookups and docs.
-
Guy was asking about stuff for the TurboDuo, which uses the same mini-DIN plugs as PCE stuff.
Oohhh, I didn't know that. Makes me hate the TG-16 even more. Seriously, why did they bother redesigning it... they must have twigged how crappy it looked when they got around to releasing the duo.
-
Black Tiger, that was an awesome read! Thanks for sharing that. :)
-
Awesome Tiger, I still have my original TG-16 as well, Dents and all. My dad worked really hard for it.
-
Nice post, Black Tiger. You made some good points and it's great to know that NEC treated you with respect.
However, a lot of the stuff you mentioned wasn't all out at the same time. For instance, a lot of the stuff that Feka and Nintendont started offering for their consoles came later, after the TG16 was starting to get hard to find in major retail stores and by then the Duo was already out and being bashed by the elite gaming magazine critics of the time.
I still blame EGM's game reviewers for decieving me into thinking that Dragon Slayer wasn't worth buying.
-
I don't remember the "elite gaming critics" saying much negative about the Duo. I'd say EGM was the main reason I became interested in the system.
It was the public that didn't want the thing, and mainly because of the $300 price tag.
I do remember EGM saying all sorts of stupid shit about the GameCube from pretty much day one. That was much later, obviously.
-
It never bothered me to buy nec's addons. I always thought it was kinda neat to buy accessories. I bought a turbotap when i had my tg-16, and i bought a duotap when i had my duo. My friends had nothing like the turbo, and always wanted to play it. For me it was bragging rights.
-
Or they figured that most gamers have no friends and stay holed up in their rooms alone playing games all night. And they were right.
In my case...is well. I've had the TAP and two pads...but neither my wife plays with me
-
It never bothered me to buy nec's addons. I always thought it was kinda neat to buy accessories. I bought a turbotap when i had my tg-16, and i bought a duotap when i had my duo. My friends had nothing like the turbo, and always wanted to play it. For me it was bragging rights.
I remember this sort of thing going on too back in '91 when I'd only had my TG16 for a few months and one day, I walked into the room where it was setup and found my nephew -who was always trying hard to act like he'd outgrown video gaming- showing it to a bunch of his friends and demonstrating how to remove the dust cover in order to see the expansion port for the Turbo-CD.
They all looked amazed until they looked up and saw me in the doorway, watching then, tried to play it off like "Yeah that's nice, blah-blah-blah..." then, tried to act nonchalantly uninterested and hurried away just as I was about to give them some spec info.
What is it about the superior hardware of the Turbo that makes the haters so nervous?
-
In my case...is well. I've had the TAP and two pads...but neither my wife plays with me
Neither of your wives?
-
Neither of your wives?
Sorry but...I only have one. The most beautiful!!!
-
Guy was asking about stuff for the TurboDuo, which uses the same mini-DIN plugs as PCE stuff.
Oohhh, I didn't know that. Makes me hate the TG-16 even more. Seriously, why did they bother redesigning it... they must have twigged how crappy it looked when they got around to releasing the duo.
Test markets of the original TG-16 design proved American consumers had a hard time finding the tiny controller port on the gigantic TG-16 deck. They made it bigger so it wouldn't get lost in all that open space.
-
I knew many people who bought and rented multi-taps for NES and SNES who never had any fun with 3+ player games and wasted their money.
Personally, I had lots of fun playing Bomberman on my SNES back in the day. Though I knew the Turbo supported one more player, and used that as evidence of the turbo's 16 bitness back in the day ("if it's 8-bit, why can it display more players in Bomberman than the SNES can?")
-
Still love playing Bomberman on the Super Famicom with some friends. There are some good versions on there! Played a hell of a lot of Bomberman 4 the other night with a couple friends. Played 110 games, 45 of which I won along with a few draws. Also had a blast playing 3 player Secret of Mana with friends back in the day. It was quite a unique experience at the time, and still is to this day.
-
Still love playing Bomberman on the Super Famicom with some friends. There are some good versions on there! Played a hell of a lot of Bomberman 4 the other night with a couple friends. Played 110 games, 45 of which I won along with a few draws. Also had a blast playing 3 player Secret of Mana with friends back in the day. It was quite a unique experience at the time, and still is to this day.
I was p[laying Bomberman Tournament (GBA) last week with 2 friends. The thing was, Dan is actually good at Bomberman, but he just couldn't win. and he made a hell of a fuss! He made me reboot loads of times to change settings in this order:
make the computer easier to beat
Turn off the computer players because we should be playing each other
Turn off the Fishing endgame because it's a waste of time
Turn off super revenge because it punishes those who are winning
And then I still kicked his ass, and he accused me and Liam of ganging up on him! (we weren't). Classic bomberman!
-
I bought a TG-16 Tap and extra controllers back in the day. 2 brothers + lots of friends = lots of Bomberman, Dungeon Explorer, MotoRoader, AeroBlasters, Monster Lair, Parasol Stars, Cadash, and, to a lesser extent... Double Dungeons :)
Or they figured that most gamers have no friends and stay holed up in their rooms alone playing games all night. And they were right.
I swear to the Lord Almighty that there is the truth in that statement.
To build on Black_Tiger's earlier defense of NEC's hardware strategy:
(1) Not everyone uses 2-player.
(2) If you want to play 3+ player, on ANY system, you must buy a tap + extra controllers
(3) I think NEC was hoping that the one-controller OR tap strategy might encourage developers to make 3+ player games. Why? Anyone who was interested in 2+ player games was forced to buy a tap, which provided 3+ player options. I don't know if it worked, but as long as folks had a tap, they were potential candidates for 3+ games. I think this was an intelligent way to create two, distinct groups of customers. Again, I don't know if it worked, but it certainly had the potential to create A MUCH LARGER USER BASE WITH 3+ player capability than NES, Genesis, SNES, etc.
(4) If you are going to bitch about something, bitch about the SHORT CORDS on the TG-16/PCE controllers! Holy crap, add an extra foot, at least. American gaming habits are different than Japan. We don't keep the console on the floor next to us when we play! It actually sounds nice (to have the console within reach and easily change games), but I don't play like that. Homie don't play that.
-
Have you ever seen a PS1 controller from when the system first came out in Japan? I'm not sure if it was actually a full two feet. It was stupidly short.
-
If you are going to bitch about something, bitch about the SHORT CORDS on the TG-16/PCE controllers! Holy crap, add an extra foot, at least. American gaming habits are different than Japan. We don't keep the console on the floor next to us when we play! It actually sounds nice (to have the console within reach and easily change games), but I don't play like that. Homie don't play that.
Come on, those extension cords are cheap as chips! Still, it's not a problem for me to rest my Core Grafx next to me when I play, even though I have a long enough extension
-
I don't know... I had the extension cord for the TG16 and it worked fine until I let a neighbor borrow the system. I didn't see any damage upon inspection but, it just quit working.
I've had the Duo extension cord from TZD for ages and it's never given me any problems.
-
I don't know... I had the extension cord for the TG16 and it worked fine until I let a neighbor borrow the system. I didn't see any damage upon inspection but, it just quit working.
I've had the Duo extension cord from TZD for ages and it's never given me any problems.
They're basically just serial cables. The one I'm using now, I think it was advertised as an Apple printer cable.
-
I don't know... I had the extension cord for the TG16 and it worked fine until I let a neighbor borrow the system. I didn't see any damage upon inspection but, it just quit working.
I've had the Duo extension cord from TZD for ages and it's never given me any problems.
They're basically just serial cables. The one I'm using now, I think it was advertised as an Apple printer cable.
Hmmm. Apple printer cable. What era would that be amongst Apple products. I mean was it really the same as the Duo or did it come before that and TZD just managed to score a bunch of them?
-
If you are going to bitch about something, bitch about the SHORT CORDS on the TG-16/PCE controllers! Holy crap, add an extra foot, at least. American gaming habits are different than Japan. We don't keep the console on the floor next to us when we play! It actually sounds nice (to have the console within reach and easily change games), but I don't play like that. Homie don't play that.
oh snap!!! I just fell out of my window laughing!!!! wow
awesome post
-
I don't know... I had the extension cord for the TG16 and it worked fine until I let a neighbor borrow the system. I didn't see any damage upon inspection but, it just quit working.
I've had the Duo extension cord from TZD for ages and it's never given me any problems.
They're basically just serial cables. The one I'm using now, I think it was advertised as an Apple printer cable.
Hmmm. Apple printer cable. What era would that be amongst Apple products. I mean was it really the same as the Duo or did it come before that and TZD just managed to score a bunch of them?
Exactly the same. The sockit type is a mini Din, and while there are several configurations, even among the ones with the same number of pins, it's a standard connection type - just as the Megadrive's 9 pin d-sub is a standard type. It's not uncommon, even today; 360's have USB slots, can't get more standard than that.
-
And because they are standard computer cables, extension cables can be found dirt cheap.
TurboGrafx-16 DIN 8-pin controller extension cable
6ft: http://www.bestpricecables.com/nec-turbo-grfx-extension-cable.html
PC Engine / Turbo Duo / PC Engine Duo -R -RX / CoreGrafx Mini-DIN 8-pin controller extension cable
6ft: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10215&cs_id=1021501&p_id=534&seq=1&format=2
12ft: (not so cheap) http://www.retrogamecave.com/tg16pc-engine.html
-
I bought a TG-16 Tap and extra controllers back in the day. 2 brothers + lots of friends = lots of Bomberman, Dungeon Explorer, MotoRoader, AeroBlasters, Monster Lair, Parasol Stars, Cadash, and, to a lesser extent... Double Dungeons :)
Or they figured that most gamers have no friends and stay holed up in their rooms alone playing games all night. And they were right.
I swear to the Lord Almighty that there is the truth in that statement.
To build on Black_Tiger's earlier defense of NEC's hardware strategy:
(1) Not everyone uses 2-player.
(2) If you want to play 3+ player, on ANY system, you must buy a tap + extra controllers
(3) I think NEC was hoping that the one-controller OR tap strategy might encourage developers to make 3+ player games. Why? Anyone who was interested in 2+ player games was forced to buy a tap, which provided 3+ player options. I don't know if it worked, but as long as folks had a tap, they were potential candidates for 3+ games. I think this was an intelligent way to create two, distinct groups of customers. Again, I don't know if it worked, but it certainly had the potential to create A MUCH LARGER USER BASE WITH 3+ player capability than NES, Genesis, SNES, etc.
(4) If you are going to bitch about something, bitch about the SHORT CORDS on the TG-16/PCE controllers! Holy crap, add an extra foot, at least. American gaming habits are different than Japan. We don't keep the console on the floor next to us when we play! It actually sounds nice (to have the console within reach and easily change games), but I don't play like that. Homie don't play that.
BTW, yeah, Esteban, I thought many of those things too
-
If you are going to bitch about something, bitch about the SHORT CORDS on the TG-16/PCE controllers! Holy crap, add an extra foot, at least. American gaming habits are different than Japan. We don't keep the console on the floor next to us when we play! It actually sounds nice (to have the console within reach and easily change games), but I don't play like that. Homie don't play that.
oh snap!!! I just fell out of my window laughing!!!! wow
awesome post
:) Word up.
I don't know... I had the extension cord for the TG16 and it worked fine until I let a neighbor borrow the system. I didn't see any damage upon inspection but, it just quit working.
I've had the Duo extension cord from TZD for ages and it's never given me any problems.
Yes, I paid around $6.98 - $9.99 (ha!) for a brand new extension cable back in the day (1990). The male pins/female sockets were NOT the sturdiest and did not fare well under abusive conditions. I remember being extra tender when using my tap/extension cord/controllers because my friend had a TG-16 DIN connector that was overly sensitive (he abused the sh*t out of it, though).
Have you ever seen a PS1 controller from when the system first came out in Japan? I'm not sure if it was actually a full two feet. It was stupidly short.
Hahahhahahahahaha. No, I didn't know how bad PS1 controller was!
OMG! I don't see any cords! j/k
(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2387/p1120133.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/808/p1120133.jpg/)
-
I don't know... I had the extension cord for the TG16 and it worked fine until I let a neighbor borrow the system. I didn't see any damage upon inspection but, it just quit working.
I've had the Duo extension cord from TZD for ages and it's never given me any problems.
They're basically just serial cables. The one I'm using now, I think it was advertised as an Apple printer cable.
Hmmm. Apple printer cable. What era would that be amongst Apple products. I mean was it really the same as the Duo or did it come before that and TZD just managed to score a bunch of them?
I always point this out every time it comes up, but you can't just buy an Apple printer cable from 1986-96 and expect it to work.
You have to buy the printer serial extension cable. Apple printer cables are male-to-male. You need male-to-female.
-
Yes, Nat is quite correct - it actually took me a while to find outside of the states, but you do need a Male > Female.
As long as you remember that, there's a bunch of different stuff you can search for (depending on how discriptive they are), such as mini 8-pin DIN, Apple Cables, Serial DIN Cable etc.