PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Lilgrafx on February 26, 2012, 02:40:52 PM
-
I'd say Air Zonk, Ordye, or Dead Moon because other than Fantasy Zone those are the only ones I've beaten.
-
I didn't think sapphire was all that hard, along with gate of thunder.
for some reason though, i always have a hard time on lords of thunder, can't beat it.
-
Star Parodier, Psychic Storm, Lords of Thunder, etc. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
-
Star Parodier, Psychic Storm, Lords of Thunder, etc. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
Star Parodia definitely. LoT is a breeze too, but I think in large part because of the life bar and shops. If it were set up more like it's predecessor, I think it would be harder than GoT.
Final Soldier is fairly easy too, as is Macross 2036.
-
I can't think of an easier game than Star Parodier, you could probally walk away and leave a book on the fire button to beat it.
-
Final Soldier and Spriggan were both pretty easy to beat, which is probably why I keep going back to them. :) If we're sticking just to US released games, I'd go with Air Zonk.
-
I always thought Blazing Lazers was a bit too easy but at least it's a long game. Ordyne on the other hand was not only easy but way too short.
-
Coryoon. I've never seen a game that gives you so many 1-ups. Like kill a boss and you get 5+ instantly.
-
Coryoon. I've never seen a game that gives you so many 1-ups. Like kill a boss and you get 5+ instantly.
I've played Coryoon once, and I played straight through it on my first try.
As far as domestic releases go, Blazing Lazers is really really easy.
-
I didn't think sapphire was all that hard,
with or without using continues?
-
I didn't think sapphire was all that hard,
with or without using continues?
with, i'm not that good at shmups, hence why i can't beat lords of thunder
-
I didn't think sapphire was all that hard,
with or without using continues?
with, i'm not that good at shmups, hence why i can't beat lords of thunder
OK, but then it isn't quite fair to say it is an easy shooter, because with continues even my granma can beat it, since you have no set back points, but without you need to be some quite passionate shoot'em up player to be able to clear it. Hence, I would rate it as a quite difficult shoot'em up.
-
Deep Blue?
-
only if you're a masochist.
-
only if you're a masochist.
Well, it's sometimes more of a dodger than a shooter.
Brazing Razers is pretty easy too.
-
I'd probably say Magical Chase. So many power-ups you can buy at the stores such as elixirs that revive your character. Despite the relatively easy difficulty, I love the game. Great enemy and level designs throughout
-
Lords of Thunder is the easiest I can think of on any difficulty.
-
Lords of Thunder is the easiest I can think of on any difficulty.
Lords of Thunder is easy once you learn what weapons work well in what levels. It takes time to figure out what works well, a good path to building up money needed to buy the proper weapons and equipment and such. It's not so tough when you develop your Mega Man like strategy of what to use where, but it is if you're just playing it with stock weapons.
-
I'd say Super Air Zonk and Lords of Thunder since I beat them both on my first try.
-
I didn't think sapphire was all that hard,
with or without using continues?
with, i'm not that good at shmups, hence why i can't beat lords of thunder
OK, but then it isn't quite fair to say it is an easy shooter, because with continues even my granma can beat it, since you have no set back points, but without you need to be some quite passionate shoot'em up player to be able to clear it. Hence, I would rate it as a quite difficult shoot'em up.
maybe, and i'm not claiming to be a shooter guru, i've only 1 credit cleared a couple games.
i'm simply saying that i thought it was kinda easy, as i was able to beat it in a few tries.
I still can't beat frickin Ai Cho Aniki.
-
+1 for Lords of Thunder. No matter how long it's been since I played it last, I destroy it everytime.
-
The only shooter Ive beaten legitimately is Magical Chase... so Id say its pretty easy. Sapphire is pretty easy as well.... Rayxanber 2 is a cakewalk as well.
-
+1 on Air Zonk and Magical Chase being among the easiest. If I can beat 'em, nearly anyone can.
-
I'm not that great at shooters so I will say if I've cleared it, it's not that hard.
LoT - Easy/Normal, no problem, but I can't do it on Super.
MC
Download
Salamander (though the last part can be tricky)
Star Parodier
Air Zonk / Super AZ
GoT I find quite a bit harder than LoT, I've only cleared it once and on the easiest mode.
-
I've never beaten a turbob shooter. The closest I've gotten to beating one is Blazers, so I'll say that.
-
Cyber Core is fairly easy... I got to the final level my first time playing and I suck at shooters.
-
Galaga '90? In all seriousness, L.O.T. Still a fave no matter how many times I beat it.
-
Blazing Lasers gets hard near the end though.
-
Blazing Lasers gets hard near the end though.
Yeah most of the games a cake walk and then all hell breaks lose on the final level. I've made it through the whole game on one life and then the last level appears.
-
Air Zonk
Magical Chase
Cyber Core
-
I don't judge difficulty simply by how hard it is to clear a game by any means necessary. I think that people shouldn't judge a game's difficulty if they're spamming continues. If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.
Has everyone who listed Magical Chase completed it on the hardest difficulty? Many games, especially shooters, have a normal mode that is balanced for the lowest common denominator, so that more people can enjoy it. Ninja Spirit may be beatable by most people in PC Engine mode, but the game was designed for one hit kills.
-
I didn't know so many people found Magical Chase to be a cakewalk, I always thought it was one of the harder US released shooters! Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the shops, I've only beaten it on "Breeze" mode, which is like the first three levels.
-
I've never beaten a turbob shooter. The closest I've gotten to beating one is Blazers, so I'll say that.
Not to sound douchie but that kinda surprising coming from some one with 3000+ post. Do you have Air Zonk?
-
star parodier is a breeze. I still have yet to beat LOT. i can get to the end but i fail. I don't think spriggan is to hard either.
-
I think Star Parodia is the easiest of all.
-
Psychosis is also another easy shooter in my opinion. Only 10 stages and a rather useful Wave weapon too.
-
I don't judge difficulty simply by how hard it is to clear a game by any means necessary. I think that people shouldn't judge a game's difficulty if they're spamming continues. If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.
Has everyone who listed Magical Chase completed it on the hardest difficulty? Many games, especially shooters, have a normal mode that is balanced for the lowest common denominator, so that more people can enjoy it. Ninja Spirit may be beatable by most people in PC Engine mode, but the game was designed for one hit kills.
I've beaten Magical Chase on its default difficulty (Bumpy) quite a few times. It only took me 2 or 3 playthroughs to 1CC the game. The Rough difficulty is a much more enjoyable experience and it took many more playthroughs to beat it there with 1CC as enemies become more resilient. The good thing about MC is that there are so many different ways to play the game and also to challenge yourself (ie not buying certain weapons and health replenishers). I simply chose MC as an easy game to beat as most people probably reap what they can from the stores and continue as long as they wish.
-
I don't judge difficulty simply by how hard it is to clear a game by any means necessary. I think that people shouldn't judge a game's difficulty if they're spamming continues. If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.
Agreed. It's not really a clear if it took a bunch of continues, though I'll make exceptions for stuff like Splash Lake.
Has everyone who listed Magical Chase completed it on the hardest difficulty? Many games, especially shooters, have a normal mode that is balanced for the lowest common denominator, so that more people can enjoy it.
I counted it as easy because it's easy on the default settings. There's always a way to make a game harder, either with a setting, not using bombs, avoiding certain weapons, etc.
-
Terraforming is another that is not terribly difficult until the final stage. I finished it using one continue until the final stage and three on the final stage alone.
-
OVERRIDE!
Had 16 lives in stock when I finished this game.
-
If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.
Disagree completely. The continue is provided by the game. If the game doesn't want you to continue, then it shouldn't have a continue feature. Same goes with bombs. If you never use a bomb you most assuredly aren't experiencing the full game.
Also, are easy games bad things? Everyone always talks about how great hard games are and how shitty easy games are. Please. Games can be fun no matter what the difficulty is.
-
I think continues in a shmup are typically for practice, as evidenced by the number of games that either reset your score or simply don't let you save a high score at all if you continue. Most Cave games won't even show you the credits if you continue. I mean, do whatever is fun, but I feel that giving yourself a continue (*cough* especially in a suicide-rank game like Battle Garegga) is akin to giving yourself another king in chess.
On topic: Star Parodia is the only shmup I've beaten on the first go.
-
Also, are easy games bad things? Everyone always talks about how great hard games are and how shitty easy games are. Please. Games can be fun no matter what the difficulty is.
Agreed,
Using the examples provided by this thread, If Air Zonk, Magical Chase, Lords of Thunder and Blazing Lazers are considered some of the easiest shmups on the US TG16, then they're also some of the best.
-
If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.
Disagree completely. The continue is provided by the game. If the game doesn't want you to continue, then it shouldn't have a continue feature. Same goes with bombs. If you never use a bomb you most assuredly aren't experiencing the full game.
Also, are easy games bad things? Everyone always talks about how great hard games are and how shitty easy games are. Please. Games can be fun no matter what the difficulty is.
I don't think that easy games are bad and that good games must be hard. I just don't agree that every arcade game ever made is easy because you can feed it quarters forever. I don't think that people should complain if a console game has unlimited continues or misc options, cheats or exploits. Just because you can play a game one way doesn't mean that it should be the only way. Buying as many outs from shops or exploiting something like Earth armor in Lords of Thunder to avoid relying on skill is similar to just relying on credits/continues/etc.
If developrs didn't want you to use invincibilty codes or level select cheats, they wouldn't have programmed them in either.
When I mentioned spamming bombs, I meant how in games like Sapphire you can tap the bomb button until you're out of bombs and then kill yourself, respawn and repeat until the game is over. It may be part of the game but it's not the only way to play.
Many of the games people are bringing up can be easy. But many of them can also be much more challenging.
-
Not to sound douchie but that kinda surprising coming from some one with 3000+ post. Do you have Air Zonk?
Not Douchey at all. I love vidyagames, but am bad at them. :oops: I'm not the only one here like that.
I have CD Denjin (the sequel), but not the original Air Zonk.
-
I just don't agree that every arcade game ever made is easy because you can feed it quarters forever.
We're not talking about arcade games, we're talking about TurboGrafx games. Arcade games' sole purpose is to earn quarters. The continues are justified. It would be a weak argument to make for a home console game which does not need to earn quarters. Even home translations of quarter-munchers do not NEED to retain the continues. That's a ridiculous notion. Therefore the game itself is not hard, but only as hard as you make it. I think that if you fire a shot and it misses an enemy, that is cheating. It's like giving yourself 40 extra kings in chess. All shots fired should hit enemies without exception. Otherwise you're not experiencing the full game!
I feel that giving yourself a continue (*cough* especially in a suicide-rank game like Battle Garegga) is akin to giving yourself another king in chess.
But chess is not programmed to give yourself extra kings. Certain games are programmed with continues. If games allow you to continue endlessly or allow you to spam bombs, then those games have some shitty design and programming. It's up to the game to give the challenge, not the player to self-limit or make up their own rules and call it the only way to "experience the full game". That's absurd.
"Hardcore players" always make me LOL.
-
Joe, winning by attrition defeats the purpose of challenging yourself.
If a game lets you win simply by having a pulse, it's an easy game. Guerilla War for NES is like this. You can just die/continue endlessly.
The purpose of arcade games and their home ports is to challenge your reflexes and make you demonstrate some amount of skill to get anywhere. If you can just hold a fire button down , stand in one place, and let the level scroll on by, continuing when needed, then the game is frigging easy.
The continues-of-neverending-doom are there to hold peoples hands. Not everyone's good at the game, but everyone should still at least get to see the ending. That's basically how that works.
The only thing preventing you from winning most arcade games is money. Rich, pussy players can win all kinds of games. Then, someone who knows how to really play it comes and makes them look like a chump because it only cost them 50 cents instead of 68$
-
If you have to continue, then the game isn't easy. If you're spamming bombs and continuing, you aren't even experiencing the full game.
I agree with this line of thinking. For shmups at least. Continues are for practice. I mean, old school shooters are usually pretty short. You haven't really beat the game until you've mastered it, which the time it takes to get that good negates the short length of the game of a single run IMO. Some old school shooters reward you for the harder difficulty with additional material in the ending sequence. I wish more did that, or at least some recognition by the designers/game.
That said, Raiden on the PCE isn't as hard as the arcade version - but it's a pretty good challenge. The 6th level boss is such a bitch, that I save all my bombs up until there - to spam it with bombs (used to make a bullet shield, not damage the boss directly). I've read that's common tactic for that boss no matter what version/port of the game. Still feels like cheating though. The thing that bothers me about Raiden is that it sometimes it's a bullet hell shmup (the bosses really) and other times it's not (the regular levels). But the collision box for the ship isn't exactly bullet hell friendly IMO.
-
Star Parodier. Way too easy to the point of stupid, 20+ guys left and I don't even have to memorize a enemy pattern.
Most shooters 1cc is what I consider "beating" the game but I'll make exceptions for really tough ones like Aero Blasters and Rayxanber 2. I guess it's all in the mind of the gamer and what they want out of the game.
-
I feel that giving yourself a continue (*cough* especially in a suicide-rank game like Battle Garegga) is akin to giving yourself another king in chess.
But chess is not programmed to give yourself extra kings.
Who says? When I was a wee lad and my dad was teaching me the game, he let me reposition my king after a checkmate. I'd also bet money that somewhere out there is a computer chess program that will allow play even after a checkmate.
It's for practice.
Again, the fact that they often programmed games NOT to save your score or give you a proper ending when you continue is evidence enough for the game being designed primarily around not using continues.
Certain games are programmed with continues. If games allow you to continue endlessly or allow you to spam bombs, then those games have some shitty design and programming. It's up to the game to give the challenge, not the player to self-limit or make up their own rules and call it the only way to "experience the full game". That's absurd.
"Hardcore players" always make me LOL.
Continues are simply a convention of the shmup genre. It's like how enemy patterns in most modern shmups aren't really designed for two players at all, but they still give the option just because that's the way it's always been. It's part of their arcade heritage.
It's true that some games give a bigger wink to using continues that others. Battle Garegga, on the other hand, reveals its true design when you only allow yourself one credit.
At the end of the day, we're all just pressing buttons in front of a screen, so having fun is #1. However, you can miss a lot of depth when you take the easy way out. Another example would be baseball with unlimited strikes. People might enjoy getting more hits, but all the drama and excitement of the full count would be lost.
-
Atari 2600 bowling lets you set a difficulty mode where you can steer the f*ckin ball
Strikes are pretty much hohum at that point.
-
I would say Lords for me since I can beat it. Sapphire, I can beat it of course with the continues. I almost beat air zonk on sweety.
-
I can't think of an easier game than Star Parodier, you could probally walk away and leave a book on the fire button to beat it.
Weird, I got my ass whooped at this game, on some sort of pyramid level IIRC. This was on the Wii version on an HDTV. I blame the lag.
-
The thing with Battle Garegga is that once you beat it, you unlock some crazy options which makes the game mega easy. I don't even think it matters if you continue when you first beat it (can't remember, did it so long ago and my save file is still active). Now I'm certainly not against extra options being earned once the game is beaten, but I think it should take a little bit more skill to earn them.
Also, I pretty much agree with what people have said since my last post.
-
I would add that abusing turbo switches (in some games) is akin to abusing continues. You don't TRULY appreciate some games when you're a lazy slob. For example, IMHO: Arcade Ports should NOT be played with turbo unless this feature was available in the arcade version.
Why? I feel that it betrays the original design of the game. Some games, for example, offer power-ups that increase the frequency of your shot. Other games have a "Hold down button for charged shot" mechanic that totally breaks when you use turbo switches.
I know some folks may not agree with me, and I certainly don't follow this all the time (i.e. if I am frustrated and just learning a game), but I generally follow this rule.
Fundamentally, unless the arcade version of a game offered turbo-fire, PUSHING THE BUTTON SWIFTLY is one of the fundamental skills that shoot-em-up fans should possess. You cannot consider yourself a connoisseur of the genre if you can't obsessively press the fire button when necessary. Monster Lair for example, is best with NO TURBO, because each weapon has its own UNIQUE "frequency"... Missiles travel farther when you hold the button longer, the spinning shield power-up has a VARIABLE frequency (it is fun to slow-down and speed-up the shield, offering regular or double-thick shields). Lots of games (all genres) possess attacks with unique timing issues (Legendary Axe I & II !!)...
These nuances are lost when you abuse Turbo switch.
16-SHOT!
/end of rant
P.S. I apply the "no assisted turbo-fire" rule to most games, in all genres, and most shoot-em-ups (not only arcade ports). That said, there are still plenty of games I'll use turbofire for. I'm not perfect (or completely insane).
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.png)
Also, I pretty much agree with what people have said since my last post.
Thank goodness (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.png).
-
Why? I feel that it betrays the original design of the game. Some games, for example, offer power-ups that increase the frequency of your shot. Other games have a "Hold down button for charged shot" mechanic that totally breaks when you use turbo switches.
Sidearms comes to mind. :) The autofire weapon that you can pick up is utterly useless in the TG version, but a godsend in the arcade version.
Easy shooters... hrm. Air Zonk in Sweet mode is pretty easy. Lords Of Thunder in Normal mode is pretty easy too. Fantasy Zone is pretty easy the first time through. Dead Moon isn't the greatest challenge in Normal mode. Blazing Lazers only seems easy at first... get up to the last couple of levels and you might as well start over if you get killed. There's just no way to recoup once you're that far in.
-
Why? I feel that it betrays the original design of the game. Some games, for example, offer power-ups that increase the frequency of your shot. Other games have a "Hold down button for charged shot" mechanic that totally breaks when you use turbo switches.
Sidearms comes to mind. :) The autofire weapon that you can pick up is utterly useless in the TG version, but a godsend in the arcade version.
Yes, SideArms is a great example, thank you for mentioning that (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgLT.png).
Easy shooters... hrm. Air Zonk in Sweet mode is pretty easy. Lords Of Thunder in Normal mode is pretty easy too. Fantasy Zone is pretty easy the first time through. Dead Moon isn't the greatest challenge in Normal mode. Blazing Lazers only seems easy at first... get up to the last couple of levels and you might as well start over if you get killed. There's just no way to recoup once you're that far in.
No one mentioned Dead Moon yet, but it is easy (it's a decent game). (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.png)
As for Blazing Lazers, I'm a broken record (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4765.msg211974#msg211974), but you can totally beat the last stage, even if you begin with nothing but a pea-shooter. The same is true for the checkpoints in Gradius games (initially it looks bleak and hopeless, but these games were designed to give you a chance, a slim chance, but quite possible). I've written this up in other threads...
-
As for Blazing Lazers, I'm a broken record (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4765.msg211974#msg211974), but you can totally beat the last stage, even if you begin with nothing but a pea-shooter.
I didn't believe this until I saw it with my own eyes. It was during a shmup tourney at a past MGC, Blazing Lazers was the last game to go. This one guy who had never played it before beat it his try, struggling at some areas but always managed to regain himself. When he made it to the last level with nothing but the pea shooter, I said there was no way he could beat it, I've tried doing the same myself many times. But by golly he did it! I congratulated him afterwards, I truly didn't believe it was possible!
-
Lol, that guy must be legend :)
-
I stand corrected! :)
-
I beat it with the piss shooter... !
I don't use the turbob switch in any shooters half the time. I think the only one I use it in is Fantasy Zone.
my friend was playing R Type w/ turbobswitches and was like WTF
and I said "retard, use the charge shot" and he went WHAT CHARGE SH.. OH. f*ck.
-
And the saga continues...
Who among us are jaded? Who among us still love the 16-bit shooter"
-
16-bit shooters are tops!
-
Hell there are a dickload of 8bit ones I love
Like Gulkave, Laydock, Star Soldier, Starship Hector.
-
Hell there are a dickload of 8bit ones I love
Like Gulkave, Laydock, Star Soldier, Starship Hector.
We haven't discussed Natsume's offerings on the NES/SFC. That's just the beginning of some goodness... (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcg0.png)
-
Speaking of 8-bit I played the hell out of Xevious, and Dragon Spirit on the NES back in the day. Finally got Ordyne the other day. We shall see how much my shooter skills have dwindled since not playing any for a while.