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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: majors on March 27, 2012, 03:40:20 AM

Title: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: majors on March 27, 2012, 03:40:20 AM
Last week at MGC TurboFan and I got into it over the merits of Sidearms as new TG-16 owner was looking some US Hu's at Mad-Gear's table. He had Blazing and Bonk, but I suggested (and gave him money!) to buy Sidearms. T'Fan took offense to my suggestion, saying that Sidearms is no good. I will agree that SA is less of a game than any Soldier, but it's no stinker. It was compaired to Ordyne, which I feel is weak sauce...not worthy to stay in my collection.

My thoughts:
Sidearms was in a local arcade in my youth, and I played it every time I visited. Was able to make it to stage 5 on a token and that made me feel good. It's a Capcom game that has robots, multi weapons, upgrades...and you transform(merge). It moves hori and vert, cool looking backgounds and I enjoy the sound effects

Ordyne has flat graphics, I never played it in the arcade...all I have played is the Hu so maybe the PCB is better. I'd rather play Fantasy Zone, or better yet Parodius for a cute shooter. Power ups/shop items were forgetable...enemy patterns did not do it for me. Ship is too big, also.

So, what is the consensus from the PCEFX folks?
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: SuperDeadite on March 27, 2012, 03:48:48 AM
Skip both and buy Sidearms Special
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Tatsujin on March 27, 2012, 03:50:09 AM
Sidearms pce [----------------lx--------------] Sidearms arcade

Ordine pce [----------------l--------------x] ordine arcade
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Bonknuts on March 27, 2012, 04:00:14 AM
Side Arms, easily. Ordine's OK as a game, but it is kind of a weak shmup (pce port). The arcade versions has a lot of nice visual appeal that was completely lost on the PCE port.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: BlueBMW on March 27, 2012, 04:06:00 AM
We didnt directly say that ordyne was better... we mostly said that final lap twin would have been a better choice!

So the thread should be titled... which is better sidearms or final lap twin if you were stuck on a desert island with just a tv and turbo
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: PunkicCyborg on March 27, 2012, 04:06:45 AM
Skip both and get barunba
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 27, 2012, 04:29:40 AM
skip them all and buy China Warrior.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Tatsujin on March 27, 2012, 04:36:36 AM
skip even that and buy energy or deep blue
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 27, 2012, 05:08:58 AM
Buy all 3 for < side arms or ordyne price!
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: majors on March 27, 2012, 05:14:09 AM
So the thread should be titled... which is better sidearms or final lap twin
We did have a short talk on FLT while in the dealers room, but it evolved into the Sidearms/Ordyne disscussion.

I personally did not feel Final Lap twin would be a good shoice for the new TG-16 owner. There was a Legendary Axe on the block, and in hindsight it would have been the better choice(I might have been pretty well lit). But I maintain, Sidearms is better than Ordyne and FLT. I own(ed) all of them and play them

Random TG-16 dude got CIB US Side Arms for $5...he can flip later if he feels it's trash.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Black Tiger on March 27, 2012, 05:22:25 AM
Especially for a new Turbo player, Side Arms is the way to go. It's a nice tech demo for the TG-16 that is only bottlenecked by the arcade original. It's high res with beautiful shading and color, great designs and a nice stereo soundtrack.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nectarsis on March 27, 2012, 05:29:40 AM
Especially for a new Turbo player, Side Arms is the way to go. It's a nice tech demo for the TG-16 that is only bottlenecked by the arcade original. It's high res with beautiful shading and color, great designs and a nice stereo soundtrack.


Pretty much this (or the above mentioned FLT/Legendary Axe).   (Sorry Josh) but I have never been an Ordyne fan...hell I find Legion (a little), and of course Deep Blue (much) more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: KingDrool on March 27, 2012, 05:54:52 AM
No disrespect, but I can't believe this was an argument. Side Arms all the way.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 27, 2012, 06:04:03 AM
Ordyne is like the autistic child of Lords of Thunder and Fantasy Zone.

or something.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Father5&JoshUnion on March 27, 2012, 06:23:54 AM
SideArms!

Who is turbofan?
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 27, 2012, 06:28:11 AM
Ordyne is read great, IMO. Since the game is almost non-existent in US arcades and it lacks a serious "macho" theme people dismiss it, but I quite like it and always have. My brother got it free as the "mystery game" with his heavily discounted TG-16, and although we didn't even know what it was we had a lot of fun with it.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: KingDrool on March 27, 2012, 06:49:47 AM
Yeah, I like Ordyne. But, IMO, Side Arms is way better.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Necromancer on March 27, 2012, 06:57:32 AM
I'd definitely rather play Sidearms, but take S.D.'s advice and get Sidearms Special for B.C. mode .  Ordyne is okay (get both!), but it's comparatively slow and kinda clunky.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 27, 2012, 07:10:02 AM
My problem with Ordyne is it's slow, and boring mostly.

If the whole game moved like 50% faster, I'd like it more I bet.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: vestcoat on March 27, 2012, 07:39:23 AM
I've never fallen in love with either game, but I prefer Ordyne, especially with its two-player option.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: T2KFreeker on March 27, 2012, 07:39:56 AM
Gotta go with Sidearms. Nice game for the Turbo. Sadly, it is missing the two player mode from the arcade game. Still, very cool shooter. I do however, like Ordyne. Both games are cool.

Pick Energy though.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on March 27, 2012, 07:43:51 AM
there should be a little bit of clarity here.  Here is the backstory to the issue:

Guy walks into MGC and has NEVER played a turbografx before.  He decides after playing some turbo at TURBOFEST that he must own a TG16.  He goes to the vendor area and buys the turbo.  He then walks over to madgear's section and looks at buying a couple TurboChips to take home and fully experience turbo for the first time.

Majors walks over and says 'Oh, I'm the king hippo of turbografx games, I'll help you pick out some games!!'  Elated at the news that a turbo veteran would help him pick out some of the best games ever, Guy says 'Cool, thank you.  What should I purchase?'

Majors starts going through some of the less expensive games to start with.  He tells Guy to buy Side Arms instead of Legendary Axe or Final Lap Twin.  (Guy was thinking of buying one or two games)  When I overheard Tony suggest Side Arms over LA or FLT, I jumped to the rescue.

I argued that Side Arms, while an ok shootie, wasn't the 'turbo' experience that a kid that was playing the turbo at home for the first time.  Besides there was another vendor 15 feet away that had Bonk's Adventure for $10.  I suggested that the guy pick up Legendary Axe and Bonk.  Majors said that Side Arms was the perfect choice.  I thought, and still do, that Side Arms is just an ok game, and in no way should be considered an A-List title that you would introduce to a nooby turbo fan.  So he wound up listening to Majors and went home with Side Arms.  Didn't pick up Legendary Axe or FLT or even Bonk's Adventure.  Luckily for him Carlton also said he had a loosey Blazing Lazers that he sold him cheap, so Guy wasn't unlucky enough to go home with JUST Side Arms.

I may have suggested that the guy will pop in Side Arms, then 10 minutes later slap that package on eBay that same night, and he would be better off with Ordyne.

f*cking Side Arms.....

Majors, you're lucky we're not SegaNerds cause this type of argument could ruin a friendship  :evil:
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 27, 2012, 07:55:45 AM
I would have suggested China Warrior and Keith Courage

you guys suck at suggestions.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: KingDrool on March 27, 2012, 08:29:08 AM
Side Arms over Bonk? To me, THAT'S f*cking madness!
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 27, 2012, 08:38:16 AM
OFIJOISFjosijfsdfj

i misread jlued
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: BigusSchmuck on March 27, 2012, 08:43:12 AM
If this was a PCE argument, I would pick Atomic Robokid Special. :P Seeing how its not, both are good in my eyes.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nodtveidt on March 27, 2012, 08:46:56 AM
Sidearms looks better, plays better, sounds better... is better. By leaps and bounds.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: A_Locomotive on March 27, 2012, 08:49:02 AM
I'd personally pick ordyne, I like its pace and its looks. Sidearms difficulty spikes in difficulty take a lot of the fun out of it for me.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: majors on March 27, 2012, 08:52:55 AM
Who is turbofan?
there should be a little bit of clarity here.  Here is the backstory to the issue:
my bad, I ment TurboStar...

Yes, Bonk over SideArms but the dealer we were at did not have Bonk. To tell the truth, I though T'Star took care of that when he took the new TG owner to the other dealer with Bonk for sale. This thread is for specificly SideArms vs Ordyne. The merits and flaws, a discussion. I doubt anyone will change my mind, I kind just wanted to see if I was crazy since 'Star and Blue thought I was. At least I'm gonna get his PCB of SideArms once I find a single slot Neo MVS for him  :dance:

As for Legendary Axe, I though it might be to decisive...some hate it or love it (I love it, but we have a thread for that already).

I may have suggested that the guy will pop in Side Arms, then 10 minutes later slap that package on eBay that same night, and he would be better off with Ordyne.
I'm fine with that, at least he tried it. I put my money where my mouth was, I stand by it. Of course we plugged PCEFX, let's see if he joins and has a handle of "SideArmSucks" or "HyperDyneLuv" :)

And, yes we are not NES/Sega fanboys so we can have a conversation instead of all boarding the hate train. "King Hippo"?...more like King Natas! I love talking with TG owners looking for games, everyone likes to express their opinions especially if people actually listen!
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 27, 2012, 09:11:52 AM
Sidearms has a great arcade-like feel to it, but is far more annoying that Ordyne which has a slower pace that I find more fun.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Keranu on March 27, 2012, 09:28:08 AM
Personally I'd take Ordyne over Sidearms any day of the week. Never really got into Sidearms.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 27, 2012, 10:45:47 AM
I would have suggested China Warrior and Keith Courage

you guys suck at suggestions.

I might actually agree with you half way here. While China Warrior is total shit and no fun at all, it would be a good tech demo to a noob. It would show him a bit of what the system can do.

f*ck Kieth Courage though. If you are going to play something from the Automatic Hudson Platform Game Generator  (I swear there must have been such a thing) there are better choices.

I would agree that Side Arms isn't the best choice. Its rather middle tier, IMHO, and doesn't have much personality.  Bonk, Ninja Spirit, Final Lap Twin, there are better choices.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: jperryss on March 27, 2012, 11:42:06 AM
My opinion: Ordyne is easy pick-up-and-play fun, with mediocre presentation. Side Arms looks and plays great, but the game beats the snot out of me every time and I can't enjoy it because I'm terrible at it.

Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: T2KFreeker on March 27, 2012, 12:11:09 PM
My opinion: Ordyne is easy pick-up-and-play fun, with mediocre presentation. Side Arms looks and plays great, but the game beats the snot out of me every time and I can't enjoy it because I'm terrible at it.


Play it and get better at it.  :-" Just saying.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Black Tiger on March 27, 2012, 12:12:29 PM
I would have suggested China Warrior and Keith Courage

you guys suck at suggestions.

I might actually agree with you half way here. While China Warrior is total shit and no fun at all, it would be a good tech demo to a noob. It would show him a bit of what the system can do.

f*ck Kieth Courage though. If you are going to play something from the Automatic Hudson Platform Game Generator  (I swear there must have been such a thing) there are better choices.

I would agree that Side Arms isn't the best choice. Its rather middle tier, IMHO, and doesn't have much personality.  Bonk, Ninja Spirit, Final Lap Twin, there are better choices.

Keith Courage is still a better and in general good tech demo for arcade quality shading and color as well as Turbochip sound. It also isn't really a game that ever needs to be chosen over anything since it's so cheap and common. As a Turbo player I was never impressed by China Warrior, but earlier as a Genesis player Keith Courage really wowed me and has remained impressive to this day. Worth buying and playing for the gun head enemy alone.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 27, 2012, 12:25:55 PM
Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: BlueBMW on March 27, 2012, 12:30:25 PM
It should be noted that thr mystery turbo noob also got a copy of blazing lazers so no need to fear of turbo disappointment on his behalf... sidearms or not.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Lilgrafx on March 27, 2012, 01:06:12 PM
As long as he plays Blazing Lazers first I'm sure he'll be okay. BL was the first game I bought and I love popping it in every once in a while.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: ccovell on March 27, 2012, 01:43:04 PM
Sidearms is one of the fastest-paced games ever for the Turbo, up there with Override on the PCE.  I'm convinced that the game, like SonSon 2, was secretly (in part or wholly) programmed by Capcom and handed to NEC AV for release.  Music rocks more than the shitty arcade tunes and even more than the CD ver.

A great introduction to simple shooters, if not totally representative of the "Turbo" experience like Bonk and others are.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nodtveidt on March 27, 2012, 02:24:01 PM
...why NEC AV? It's credited as Radiance Software... am I missing something?
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nat on March 27, 2012, 03:10:24 PM
Yeah, I didn't think NEC Ave had anything to do with Sidearms.

That said, I'm totally in majors' court on this. If I was new to the console and played Ordyne as one of my first two games, I'd throw the whole f*cking operation straight up on eBay.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Black Tiger on March 27, 2012, 03:37:09 PM
Radiance Software is the publisher of the American version, who graced us with the ring wearing cosmic astronaut.

Nec Ave made/published the PCE versions.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Tatsujin on March 27, 2012, 04:13:49 PM
My problem with ordyne is the BIG downgrade from its arcade pendant. so I much more enjoy it playing on my namco museum than on the pce.

Whilst sidearms was a great port at that time and came very close to the arcade feeling.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nat on March 27, 2012, 04:15:06 PM
I mostly agree with this, Ordyne on the Turbo is a really poor port.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: motdelbourt on March 27, 2012, 04:45:06 PM
Obviously SideArms. What the hell is an Ordyne.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Black Tiger on March 27, 2012, 04:46:19 PM
Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).

The Alpha Zones sword swing sound effect is one of my favorite video game sound effects of all time. :P
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 27, 2012, 05:26:47 PM
I agree.  I love the sound effects in Keith Courage.  They're not realistic but they sound awesome.  As a game it's mediocre at best, but there are definitely elements I love about it.

Side Arms on the Turbo is better than Ordyne on the Turbo, but I don't consider either a "must have".  I did an arrangement of the first level theme of Ordyne several years ago because I liked the music, but not because I particularly liked Oryne (though the arcade isn't awful).  I never released it anywhere.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: DesmondThe3rd on March 27, 2012, 05:42:41 PM
I always thought Ordyne was kinda underrated. First off it's one of the few two player shooters on system and there was a decent amount of enemies, power ups, and bonuses. Side Arms is cool too but the difficulty feels a bit unbalanced at times.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: thesteve on March 27, 2012, 06:11:47 PM
sapphire is 2 player as well
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: T2KFreeker on March 27, 2012, 08:09:58 PM
sapphire is 2 player as well
Hell yeah! Sadly though, I doubt you are going to find Sapphire at the same price as Ordyne or Sidearms. Not to mention the necessity of the Arcade card to boot! Still a bad ass game though and is indeed two player!
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Tatsujin on March 27, 2012, 10:09:47 PM
get a fakeler from benby 4FREE :D
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: majors on March 28, 2012, 03:46:57 AM
It seems pretty even then, both games have merit when talking solely on play on the TG. I did think it would be more one side(arms)d, but it both games have their fans. I'll give Ordyne another shot...but on a Namco collection to get the arcade version. We all seem to agree that both games are mid-tier choices and boils down to "what you like yer'self". Guess I like robots more that kids in flying cars.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 28, 2012, 03:59:14 AM
Keith Courage and China Warrior would have cost like, 5$ total.  Hell, does the guy post on here?  I'll mail him a loose copy.  I think I have two.

As far as introduction games, its great for many reasons.

1) It's not like OMG FAST PACED REFLEXES OR YOU DIE HAH f*ck YOU.   It's mellow.  You start off in town and derp along to the funny town music and get a feel for everything.
2) You get to the end and a rainbow shoots down and you TRANSFORM THE f*ck OUT.  That little scene where you morph, f*cking rules.
3) Once you drop into the underworld, holy shit.  Mutant capguns, frankenstein bullshit, multiway platforming.  And it's still not OMG PRESS FASTER YOU PUSSY, YOU'RE DEAD IF YOU DON'T.  The boss-battle room looks cool as hell, and the music it plays is intense and exciting.

The whole time, you are treated to pretty smooth graphics.  The shading of everything is pretty nice.  The sounds are great too.  That sword-swing in the underworld sounds awesome. I always liked that loud ass "whoooompah" noise.

It showcases just about everything the system can do:  Sweet music, solid controls, big and little sprites, and pretty colors.

Plus, it's not like "oh, its only good because its cheap".  The game was f*ckin free. You got it just for buying a Turbob.

My suggestions to a Turbob N00b are as follows:

China Warrior
Bonk
Neutopia
Vigilante
Keith Courage
Blazing Lazers

My ultimate reason?  This is what I was exposed to growing up on the system, and it was enough to make me want to program shitty games for it! :)
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: KingDrool on March 28, 2012, 04:26:14 AM
One question, Arkhan: why Vigilante? Any reason other than nostalgia?
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on March 28, 2012, 04:30:13 AM
Keith Courage and China Warrior would have cost like, 5$ total.  Hell, does the guy post on here?  I'll mail him a loose copy.  I think I have two.
Remember Ark, he was buying from Madgear's booth.  So those games were most likely $10 each.
I'll give Ordyne another shot...but on a Namco collection to get the arcade version.

I played the arcade cab, and Namco's collection versions of Ordyne.  It's a really great game!! 
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: vestcoat on March 28, 2012, 05:00:05 AM
Learning to love Keith Courage is the mandatory initiation for every noob.  

No other games can be purchased until they've lived with KC for two weeks.   =;

And no less than one (1) year of Turbochipping is needed before the granting of Super CD privileges!  [-X
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: soop on March 28, 2012, 05:08:30 AM
I know it's a thread about SideArms vs Ordyne, but:

I would agree that Side Arms isn't the best choice. Its rather middle tier, IMHO, and doesn't have much personality.  Bonk, Ninja Spirit, Final Lap Twin, there are better choices.

This.  I can't believe he may have gone home without PC Kid 2.  That Turbo Grafx may end up in a bin.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 28, 2012, 05:37:29 AM
One question, Arkhan: why Vigilante? Any reason other than nostalgia?

No, I did name my library I had for years (new TG games were not possible when I got my TG ~1998 from my aunt).  I didn't start buying more games for it til ~2001.  So for 3 years I basically had a tiny library. 

But, Vigilante on TG is better than the arcade one.  It controls better, sounds better, and looks like the same.  It's a sweet f*ckin beat em up.

Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: KingDrool on March 28, 2012, 06:29:50 AM
THE SKINHEADS HAVE KIDNAPPED MADONNA!

Honestly, I think it's kind of shitty; especially when compared to Double Dragon 1 & 2. But hey, to each their own. (*cough* China Warrior *cough*) ;)
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 28, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
Vigilante is a sweet beat em up, man.

Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 28, 2012, 06:39:53 AM
Vigilante is cool. It's a great game when you just want something to plough through for 20 minutes and complete with no hassle. And it looks great.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Black Tiger on March 28, 2012, 06:45:32 AM
THE SKINHEADS HAVE KIDNAPPED MADONNA!

Honestly, I think it's kind of shitty; especially when compared to Double Dragon 1 & 2. But hey, to each their own. (*cough* China Warrior *cough*) ;)

I don't like to think of games as having worth based on what is considered the best. If a genre had nothing but near-perfect games, I don't think that the best of the best should take anything away from the worst of the best.

China Warrior is part of a very small genre and is not a Final Fight/Double Dragon style game. Too many games get dismissed for not excelling as a particular genre title when they're really something different.

Double Dragon 1 & 2 for example are terrible Gladiator/China Warrior style games.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: fragmare on March 28, 2012, 08:41:06 AM
Side Arms - All day, err day.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: spenoza on March 28, 2012, 08:42:54 AM
I don't like games being judged solely by how well they replicate their arcade counterparts. The NES version of Double Dragon III is not much like the arcade, and is a much better game as a result. Same with Bionic Commando. Besides, if the arcade version isn't that great, what does it matter if the console version is a great port?
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: fragmare on March 28, 2012, 08:47:46 AM
Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).

i've always maintained that if Keith Courage just dropped the slow overworld levels and just had a shit-ton of the underworld levels with more varied enemies and scenery, it would have been a *great* PCE platformer.  The underworld sections really do have good control and gameplay mechanics, imo.  As it is, I found myself trudging through the overworld levels so I could see the next underworld section, only to find it was almost exactly like the one before.  The underworld sections needed more enemies, more scenery, and more varied level design.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nodtveidt on March 28, 2012, 09:16:18 AM
The arcade version of Vigilante is way better than the PCE counterpart. The PCE version is missing frames of animation, and the sound is poorer, completely lacking the drums that make the arcade version sound cool. The PCE one stands well on its own, but next to its parent version, is sorely lacking.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 29, 2012, 02:32:53 AM
The arcade version of Vigilante is way better than the PCE counterpart. The PCE version is missing frames of animation, and the sound is poorer, completely lacking the drums that make the arcade version sound cool. The PCE one stands well on its own, but next to its parent version, is sorely lacking.

Who cares if there are some missing frames!  It's not like the missing frames are really important. The game still looks and plays smooth without them.  Contra on NES is missing frames over the arcade one.  Doesn't mean much though.

The coloration is better on PCE for starts, and the sound is *better*.

There's no farty IREM FM disasters. The samples blend in better.  In the arcade, the sampled SFX blare out over the music.  It works for the drums, but not for the punching and kicking.

The music itself is your standard IREM cheese grater sound.

Sorely lacking is a bit of exaggeration.

You want sorely lacking, play the C64 one.  It's got derpy ass music, and awful graphics.

Vigilante for PCE is the best home version of the game. It even plays a bit nicer than the arcade one.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Tatsujin on March 29, 2012, 03:48:20 AM
pce bitschirante is a great game. no further comments needed!
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: KingDrool on March 29, 2012, 04:46:20 AM
THE SKINHEADS HAVE KIDNAPPED MADONNA!

Honestly, I think it's kind of shitty; especially when compared to Double Dragon 1 & 2. But hey, to each their own. (*cough* China Warrior *cough*) ;)

I don't like to think of games as having worth based on what is considered the best. If a genre had nothing but near-perfect games, I don't think that the best of the best should take anything away from the worst of the best.

China Warrior is part of a very small genre and is not a Final Fight/Double Dragon style game. Too many games get dismissed for not excelling as a particular genre title when they're really something different.

Double Dragon 1 & 2 for example are terrible Gladiator/China Warrior style games.

Oh, I wasn't referring to China Warrior as a Double Dragon -style game. I was more referring to Arkhan's...peculiar tastes. :)
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: esteban on March 29, 2012, 11:51:28 PM
Introducing anyone to TG-16 with garbage like Keith Courage would have been a travesty.
Sure, I appreciate the few things it has going for it, but the overall experience is monotonous. Sorry.


Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).


i've always maintained that if Keith Courage just dropped the slow overworld levels and just had a shit-ton of the underworld levels with more varied enemies and scenery, it would have been a *great* PCE platformer.  The underworld sections really do have good control and gameplay mechanics, imo.  As it is, I found myself trudging through the overworld levels so I could see the next underworld section, only to find it was almost exactly like the one before.  The underworld sections needed more enemies, more scenery, and more varied level design.


I was going to dig up my old posts about how much potential Keith Courage possessed, but I agree with most of this. I don't think the overworld needs to be stripped away, however—it simply needs to receive the same re-vamp you are suggesting for the underworld, but with specific attention paid to the ARPG elements (it must be made more compelling, less predictable, gimmee Faxanadu/Zelda II LITE)...

 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/cooks_transb.gif) BACK ON TOPIC: Cook will give Ordyne another chance, but even for a TG-16 newbie, I think SideArms is a decent choice if the person is a self-avowed fan of shoot-em-ups. If not...well, neither Ordyne nor SideArms is going to win them over.

Initially, Ordyne has more character and charisma (sprite art, cute aesthetics), but it's pacing and mechanics do not pull you immediately into the action like SideArms does. Even if you feel that SideArms's theme is hackneyed and trite, you can't deny  that it offers a sense of urgency and adrenaline-pumping immediacy. Simply choosing (cycling through) weapons is risky/stressful!



That said, I acknowledge that a few basic questions about a newbie's preferences (genre-specific and game-specific) would help us tremendously.  (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)

Note: this post has been sitting on my phone for over 24 hours. I thought I posted it yesterday morning.

Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Arkhan on March 30, 2012, 01:32:15 AM
HOW DARE YOU SAY KEITH IS A TRAVESTY.  YOU SOMONABISH.


Wouldn't it be hilarious if the n00blitoid hated shooters and wanted platformers and puzzle games only?

lol
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: esteban on March 31, 2012, 02:39:04 PM
HOW DARE YOU SAY KEITH IS A TRAVESTY.  YOU SOMONABISH.


Wouldn't it be hilarious if the n00blitoid hated shooters and wanted platformers and puzzle games only?

lol


I bet you 5 copies of Keith Courage that you correctly identified the person's preferences! (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)

Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: Samurai Ghost on March 31, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
Just played SideArms for the first time yesterday. Got my ass beat the first play through, but with a little understanding of the game mechanics I got much further the second time and really enjoyed the game with the frantic action, interesting power-ups, and fairly high difficulty. I never got a feeling of excitement with Ordyne, it just find of felt flat to me, although I admit not giving it much of a chance...
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: nodtveidt on March 31, 2012, 05:40:01 PM
At some point, I will probably do a Sidearms playthrough video like all the others. Ordyne... is not worthy of such a video.
Title: Re: Ordyne vs. Sidearms, let's end this argument
Post by: rag-time4 on April 08, 2012, 05:31:48 PM
Hmm...I was never impressed with Kieth Courage in any way shape or form. Ever. I like guy with a gun for a head, sure, but that isn't enough. The bland gameplay, the sucky ass sound effects (sword swinging sound...wtf?).

i've always maintained that if Keith Courage just dropped the slow overworld levels and just had a shit-ton of the underworld levels with more varied enemies and scenery, it would have been a *great* PCE platformer.  The underworld sections really do have good control and gameplay mechanics, imo.  As it is, I found myself trudging through the overworld levels so I could see the next underworld section, only to find it was almost exactly like the one before.  The underworld sections needed more enemies, more scenery, and more varied level design.
How well does Granzort match this description of an idealized Keith Courage?

On the SideArms v. Ordyne controversy, I side with SideArms. It was the first arcade game I remember playing as a kid, and was one of the games I wanted most when I got my Duo. However, it sounds like you guys recommended games without trying to figure out what kinds of games teh Noob is into!