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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: spenoza on March 30, 2012, 07:24:22 AM
Title: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: spenoza on March 30, 2012, 07:24:22 AM
It occurs to me that there are an increasing number of orchestral performance recordings being contributed to the public domain, and much of what's within the "classical" sphere is, at least from the sheet music angle, also in the public domain. So even if a performance isn't available in the PD, a good MIDI rendition could be constructed. This kinda stuff would make great soundtrack material for CD/SuperCD RPGs and the like.
Anyone thought of going this route?
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Arkhan on March 30, 2012, 07:31:06 AM
A lot of them could just be lifted straight off the internet in MIDI format already.
However, it's kind of cheating everyone if you just lift all your music from already existing pools.
It really hurts the originality of your game. I'd never do it myself, even though I could take a MIDI and make it sound like a real orchestra easily. Like, give me a MIDI and an hour, and I'll have a song easy.
It's cheating.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 30, 2012, 07:45:42 AM
If you're stuck without a musician, there are certainly places you can get free audio like this for commercial use, so it's not the worst idea.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: SamIAm on March 30, 2012, 08:06:06 AM
Mostly related, I thought Runman (http://whatareyouwait.info/) turned out to be very charming.
Although it would be lame if everyone did it, definitely.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: spenoza on March 30, 2012, 08:06:38 AM
I wouldn't see it as cheating. In fact, I've been frustrated at the lack of classical music in games. Everyone thinks they have to have something original, when classical music provides a much richer experience in many cases. Of course, the real work is pairing individual works and themes to specific levels or scenes in games.
No, it's not cheating. It's just a different way of looking at game music. Hell, Parodius did some of that, and Loom does, too, and nobody accuses them of cheating.
I should also note that Miyamoto and Nintendo wanted to use Bolero as the title theme to Zelda but couldn't because it was still under copyright.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Necromancer on March 30, 2012, 08:27:31 AM
I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as the tune fits what you're doing (like it does in Loom).
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Black Tiger on March 30, 2012, 03:06:24 PM
Lots of games use traditional classical music. Neo Nectaris is another.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Keranu on March 30, 2012, 03:14:38 PM
What I want to know is how ICOM managed to get the license to use Beach Boys tunes in Yo Bro!
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: nat on March 30, 2012, 06:27:41 PM
What I want to know is how ICOM managed to get the license to use Beach Boys tunes in Yo Bro!
In our interview with ICOM, (http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2010/03/lords-of-turbo-pantheon-icoms-dave.html) this question is answered.
Sweet thanks. Shoulda figured licensing was a core part of their company.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Arkhan on April 02, 2012, 05:45:40 AM
Are we talking about like exactly the same as sheetmusic-renditions with MIDI,
or diddled up versions.
Parodius doesn't just rip stuff straight up. It's all hyper-spastic and redone.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: spenoza on April 02, 2012, 04:44:35 PM
Arkhan, I would say it would depend completely on the game, really. I mean, if you're going to do chip tunes you'd have to strip everything down to 5 or 6 channels and pick instruments pretty carefully as it is, so I don't think you can go totally sheet music no matter what you do. If you do CD soundtrack, well, that makes it easier to either stay with what's there or branch off.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Arkhan on April 02, 2012, 05:13:42 PM
Arkhan, I would say it would depend completely on the game, really. I mean, if you're going to do chip tunes you'd have to strip everything down to 5 or 6 channels and pick instruments pretty carefully as it is, so I don't think you can go totally sheet music no matter what you do. If you do CD soundtrack, well, that makes it easier to either stay with what's there or branch off.
That doesn't answer the question though.
I'd feel a bit cheated if some epic fantasy RPG just belted out Bach/Mozart/Chopin without much reworking.
Splatterhouse and Parodius borrow from classical works but do so in a way that makes you sort of forget that they did.
I am also unsure how you determined that there is a lack of classical music in games. I'm also unsure what type of game you are talking about. If you're talking about say, sci-fi shooters, I don't see why you'd really want classical music. Elegant, flowy orchestral pieces don't jive well with robots and aliens blowing the f*ck out of each other.
The 90s CRPG era had classical music spewed all over it....
You could basically insert the rest of the Wizardry, Ultima and M&M games music in here
and then here's your standard obnoxious, diddled up classical music, with electronic nonsense thrown in.
take out the electronic beats and you have a fairly standard orchestra performance.
and then, I mean
I could probably do this for awhile.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: spenoza on April 02, 2012, 05:41:28 PM
and then here's your standard obnoxious, diddled up classical music, with electronic nonsense thrown in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqsCY9n13pk
take out the electronic beats and you have a fairly standard orchestra performance.
It doesn't sound like anything distinct, mostly just generic orchestral chorus. No, I'm talking about actual classical themes, lifted from classical, baroque, romantic period compositions, etc... As for flowy stuff not working in sci fi, of course not. That's why you'd use Mars, by Holst (yeah, I know, stereotypical pick) or something like that. A lot of early modern music is also free of copyright restrictions and is thus freely available to remix, abuse, or simply re-use in stock form.
Thing is, if the orchestral tracks weren't remixed in style or instrumentation at all, as long as they used a really good sample library and were well-chosen to fit the mood and movement of the game, that's good enough. Lots of original video game music isn't very good music on its own and relies on the game to prop it up. Look at some of the stuff Inon Zur and Jeremy Soule. Some of their stuff is original and stands apart, and a lot of it is just orchestral filler. It's the video game version of elevator music. It's mood fluff and that's it. Now, the personality and power of good classical music can make it hard to use in games, and that's fine, but I still there there's opportunity left, especially for small and hobby developers.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Keranu on April 02, 2012, 09:34:28 PM
Or my personal favorite,
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: esteban on April 02, 2012, 10:48:02 PM
and then here's your standard obnoxious, diddled up classical music, with electronic nonsense thrown in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqsCY9n13pk
take out the electronic beats and you have a fairly standard orchestra performance.
It doesn't sound like anything distinct, mostly just generic orchestral chorus. No, I'm talking about actual classical themes, lifted from classical, baroque, romantic period compositions, etc... As for flowy stuff not working in sci fi, of course not. That's why you'd use Mars, by Holst (yeah, I know, stereotypical pick) or something like that. A lot of early modern music is also free of copyright restrictions and is thus freely available to remix, abuse, or simply re-use in stock form.
Thing is, if the orchestral tracks weren't remixed in style or instrumentation at all, as long as they used a really good sample library and were well-chosen to fit the mood and movement of the game, that's good enough. Lots of original video game music isn't very good music on its own and relies on the game to prop it up. Look at some of the stuff Inon Zur and Jeremy Soule. Some of their stuff is original and stands apart, and a lot of it is just orchestral filler. It's the video game version of elevator music. It's mood fluff and that's it. Now, the personality and power of good classical music can make it hard to use in games, and that's fine, but I still there there's opportunity left, especially for small and hobby developers.
I think you bring up several good points.
Plus, I'm willing to bet that it would be awesome to throw some Bach into any project. He's my fave (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html).
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Arkhan on April 03, 2012, 02:02:50 AM
I hear classical themes, or close-enough-to-it stuff in games all the time.
I guess I'd just rather hear some original classical-style composition than hear the same classical stuff I heard during school. (I did violin, and then classical guitar, and then a lot of music related classes).
I guess some frescobaldi pipe organ destruction would sound kinda cool in cathedrals in games.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: spenoza on April 03, 2012, 08:13:19 AM
I agree that a lot of classical just isn't well-suited, but some of the movements from Stravinsky, Mahler, Mussorgsky, and Holst would be great starting points.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: Black Tiger on April 04, 2012, 01:52:30 PM
Gyruss wouldn't be the same with different music.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: esteban on April 08, 2012, 02:01:21 AM
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: spenoza on April 08, 2012, 07:07:50 AM
What's frustrating is if you bring up "classical" music, most people immediately think Mozart/Beethoven/Bach, and sometimes Strauss. In doing so, they overlook works which might not have been as important to the development of modern music but are much more awesome for listening and performing.
Title: Re: Easy orchestral soundtracks
Post by: esteban on April 09, 2012, 05:00:43 PM
What's frustrating is if you bring up "classical" music, most people immediately think Mozart/Beethoven/Bach, and sometimes Strauss. In doing so, they overlook works which might not have been as important to the development of modern music but are much more awesome for listening and performing.
Personally, I always think of Shostakovich (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html).