PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: MotherGunner on November 07, 2005, 02:40:27 PM
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Boy I love both these games, Side Arms Special seems to be ALOT more easier than my Hucard version, I dont get owned so much.
Dragon's Curse, Beautiful game, Awesome music.
It that Wonderboy in DC? If yes, how does it fit into the wonder boy/dynastic hero games?
Thanks!
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Dragon's Curse, in the US for the SMS, was Wonderboy 3: Dragon's Trap. However, technically, it wasn't Wonderboy 3, Monster Lair is Wonderboy 3, it's kind of wierd. Because there's Wonderboy, but then there's the Monsterworld series that's a part of most of the games, ahhh, it's too confusing, but, simply, basically, yes, Dragon's Curse is a Wonderboy game.
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Whoa! I just lost a few brain cells trying to understand that. I can compare this to one of my favorite PC Star Wars games:
1. Dark Forces
2. Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight
3. Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast <---------Why can't they just call that DARK FORCES III !
4. Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy<---------Why can't they just call that DARK FORCES IV !
So I feel you on that one!
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I see where your going with that(I also love those games, but it's a little confusing), but the Wonderboy games goe something like this:
Wonderboy
Wonderboy in Monsterland
Wonderboy 3 Monster Lair
*sigh* nevermind, I just looked this up:
http://eidolon.dnsalias.net/ta/199802/messages/192.html
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Pretty simple actually. The Wonder Boy series (by Escape/Westone) is only known as such outside Japan. In Japan, the real name is Monster World and is composed of four games out of the six:
Wonder Boy (aka Adventure Island on NES)
Wonder Boy 2: Monster Land (aka Bikkuriman World on PCE) [Monster World 1]
Wonder Boy 3: Monster Lair (the arcade game)
Wonder Boy 3: Dragon's Trap (the MS game, aka Dragon's Curse on PCE) [Monster World 2]
Wonder Boy 5 (aka Dynastic Hero on PCE) [Monster World 3]
Wonder Boy 6 [Monster World 4]
Dragon's Trap is Wonder Boy 4, really. Also, the Japanese version of Dragon's Curse is called Adventure Island, adding to the general confusion :)
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Pretty simple actually.
hahahahhaha :) Not for me! I noticed on the list that you didn't include the "Bikkuriman Dijikai" (sp?) CD ... I know this isn't a game, but I was wondering if you had ever seen what was on it? All I know is that it has text / images that flesh out the Wonderboy universe in greater detail...
While we are on the subject: I thought folks might dig this article: it's definitely coming from a pro-SMS / Sega angle, but it's fun to read:
Side By Side: Wonder Boy in Monster World vs. Dynastic Hero (http://www.sega-16.com/Feature- Side by Side Wonder Boy-Dynastic Hero.htm)
(personally, I love all the permutations of wonderboy -- and I don't think the character re-designs for the PCE are bad... in fact, I thought it was kool that the games weren't exact carbon copies... I first played the Wonderboy games on SMS, so they have a special place in my heart, but the PCE versions are great as well).
this is from www.sega-16.com (http://www.sega-16.com/) , which is one of my favorite sega sites. the fellow behind it just keeps making it better and better. Regularly updated with new content. AWESOME!
They have an article on the Sega CD version of Dungeon Explorer, IIRC. Be forewarned, they say the Sega CD is better than the HuCard :)
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Great article! Although one must consider that he reviewed the graphics based on crappy AV hookups instead of the more superior S-Video (D-lite's MOD)
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...Or instead of the even more superior RGB, which is component video and therefore offers the best quality there is.
Sure, S-Video is not bad, but it's nowhere near as good as RGB. (S-video uses two signal paths, Luminance (Y) and Chrominance (C), whereas with RGB you have three seperate signals (Y = Luminance, Pb = Chrominance 1, Pr = Chrominance 2). And that equals arcade quality sharpness / saturation.
So if you want he real McCoy, you need an RGB mod, not S-Video. I have an RGB-modded PCE and it looks SWEET. I'm still looking for a cheap RGB-modded DUO-R, though.
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...Or instead of the even more superior RGB, which is component video and therefore offers the best quality there is.
Sure, S-Video is not bad, but it's nowhere near as good as RGB. (S-video uses two signal paths, Luminance (Y) and Chrominance (C), whereas with RGB you have three seperate signals (Y = Luminance, Pb = Chrominance 1, Pr = Chrominance 2). And that equals arcade quality sharpness / saturation.
So if you want he real McCoy, you need an RGB mod, not S-Video. I have an RGB-modded PCE and it looks SWEET. I'm still looking for a cheap RGB-modded DUO-R, though.
RGB is NOT component video. Not at all. RGB is exactly that: Red Green Blue. Component video is "Color Difference" where the color is calculate by subtraction. Pb is blue, Pr is red, and Y is Green, but not RGB. They are completely different standards. You need an RGB monitor to play true RGB, but most TVs these days can play component video.
And the biggest difference between component and S-Video is the color separation. The sharpness is very close and the color saturation in S-Video is much much better than composite.
My question is what's "cheap"?
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Bikkuriman Dijikai is not a part of the Monster World, or Wonderboy series.....just to make things even a little more confusing. Bikkuriman is some kind of characters, I think it was for a soft drink, or maybe a cartoon, I can't remember. They just turned Wonderboy in Monsterland into Bikkuriman, & also made a seperate quiz game based on Bikkuriman, not Wonderboy. And I personally LOVE the PCE versions of these games, though I also have some of the sega versions as well, though it would've been nice if they had ported Monster World 4 over to the PCE. Maybe someday, somebody will.
edit-in reading that article, I can tell you, that both graphics & music, especially the music, on the Turbo version, blows away the Genny version. The only downside to the graphics being no paralax, but there's more detail & more color. I have both Dynastic Hero & Wonderboy 5. One of the typical things Wonderboy 5 suffers from, is the grainy Genesis graphics, if you know what I mean.
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Indeed, Bikkuriman is originally an anime which has absolutely peanuts to do with Wonder Boy -- it was just typical for Hudson to port games from other systems and advertise them under a popular anime franchise.
Bikkuriman Daijikai is a kind of database about characters, locations, events from this series. I remember this Japanese production was once broadcasted in France for a very short time under the silly translation "Le Prince Hercules".
Leroy's article is very Sega-oriented, and not very objective at that. Just to point a few examples... The cool parallax scrolling of Monster World 3 doesn't even last long in the Genesis version, since in many levels where you would have expected one, it's just plainly absent, like in the PCE version. So no big loss here. As for the colour palette and if one wants to be nitpicking (or fly-f@cking as we say in French), a close inspection actually reveals that the PCE palette has substantially more colours than the Genesis in many levels.
Does it really matter in the end? FM vs CD, why should I choose? I like both versions (notwithstanding small gameplay differences in favour of the PCE one).
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For me, the music is fantastic in Dynastic Hero, I actually tend to model some of my songs in the same vein as the music done for it, not to mention the Ys series & Dungeon Explorer 2, among others.
BTW, speaking of Wonderboy. Of all things, I decided to look to see what games are available for my cell phone, primarily looking for Double Dragon, well, I find that, but, I also notice a game called Super Adventure Island. Well, I figured it was a choppy version of the SNES game, so I download it, & what does it turn out to be? I know, you're thinking it's just Wonderboy aka Hudson's Adventure Island..........wrong, it's Wonderboy in Monsterland, with Master Higgins! The levels are pretty much untouched, as are the enemies. The bosses, well, I made it to the first one, is totally different. As are the characters in the houses, & ofcoarse, you're Master Higgins. Plus, instead of a sword, that you slash, you throw an axe that fly's back at you! How awesome is that? Anyways, it has armor & shields & boots just like Wonderboy, but, I haven't been able to afford them yet. I'll have to play it again, & save my money. It seems like atleast some of the hidden coins are still in the levels. But not all.......not that I remember every place where they are hidden.
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Ok, I thought RGB and component were the same. My bad (we don't have component video here in Europe). In Europe TVs feature Scart connectors (20 pins), which when fully wired can transmit RGB. (RGB is supported by our TV-sets). S-video transmits all colors via a single pin (same bandwidth as composite, btw). Since my TV-set features both S-video and RGB I was able to directly compare it and yes, RGB is sharper an more brilliant. To make a long story short: You are right, D-Lite, S-Video isn't bad (composite is). However if you can use RGB (or component, respectively) that's the way to go.
On an interesting side note, they have Scart connectors in Japan as well, but for some stupid reason they are wired differently!!! I bought a Sega Saturn Scart-lead in Tokyo a few years ago and was unpleasantly suprised when I got back home and got no picture.
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quote from http://www.micoelectric.com/faq/
"What's the difference between Composite, Component, S-Video, and RGB?
These are the formats for video transfer from your DVD player (or DVD home theatre system) to the display (ie. Your TV).
Composite is the lowest possible video quality interconnection. It allows all the components of the signal to be 'squashed' down a single wire in a combined (Composite) format.
S-Video breaks down the signal into a number of components with signals for Chrominance and Luminance. This video output format offers better video quality compared to Composite format.
RGB, as its name suggests, breaks the signal down to its Red, Green and Blue component parts. If both of your display and DVD player support RGB, then this should be the best connection option. Compared to Composite and S-Video, RGB video output format delivers the best video quality.
Component is a video output format found on most American DVD players. While Europe’s RGB format breaks the video signal down to its Red, Green and Blue component parts, Component format breaks the signal down to its three basic units: Y, Cb and Cr. It offers similar video quality level comparing to Europe's RGB format."
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For me, the music is fantastic in Dynastic Hero, I actually tend to model some of my songs in the same vein as the music done for it.
Really? :)
That's very cool to hear. I'm a fan of Nick Wood and love his works (Gate of Thunder, Dynastic Hero, Coo, Love Kills...). A truly underrated film composer. He released a compilation called Sound Virus in 2001, which I seriously recommend. Sadly the guy and his Japanese studio Syn (http://synentertainment.com/) (Simon/Yasmin/Nick, co-founded with Simon Le Bon and Yasmin Parvaneh) are pretty much inactive these days.
[Edit] Lo-fi excerpt from the album: http://namida.com/kaminarimon/ogg/Sound_Virus_18.ogg
(48 kbps)
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I don't know if you guys noticed, but it's obvious he's playing them in an emulator so obviously it doesn't matter about s-video VS component, etc. He even says at the end that he questions whether the Turbo Duo Dynastic hero exists so obviously he's playing an ISO of it.
I thought he was very fair, there's no PRO SEGA slant to it. He says that the colors in the Duo one are deeper, but that the Genesis is just brighter and more cartoony. Also I totally agree on the music thing, you can't beat the original songs for how awesomely catchy they are, the redone CD soundtrack was good but it didn't have the same charm. Plus he even mentions that the Duo one has a better translation, better ending, and cooler last boss fight, wheres the PRO SEGA agenda there?
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I don't know if you guys noticed, but it's obvious he's playing them in an emulator so obviously it doesn't matter about s-video VS component, etc. He even says at the end that he questions whether the Turbo Duo Dynastic hero exists so obviously he's playing an ISO of it.
Good observation :)
I thought he was very fair, there's no PRO SEGA slant to it. He says that the colors in the Duo one are deeper, but that the Genesis is just brighter and more cartoony. Also I totally agree on the music thing, you can't beat the original songs for how awesomely catchy they are, the redone CD soundtrack was good but it didn't have the same charm. Plus he even mentions that the Duo one has a better translation, better ending, and cooler last boss fight, wheres the PRO SEGA agenda there?
OK, I re-read this article to refresh my gray cells. I think you're right, he was pretty fair, and he even pointed out that some things boil down to personal preferences (i.e. the aesthetics... I like many of the character re-designs).
I've read all the articles at sega-16.com and I guess my comments about pro-SMS / Sega were more a generalization about how I feel they treat PCE / TG-16 titles overall. For example, I haven't re-read it, but IIRC, the Dungeon Explorer face-off definitely had a pro- Sega vibe :) Also, there must be another Wonderboy article at sega-16 that poked fun at the PCE versions, because I remember some stuff that was nowhere to be found in the article I linked to.
I love sega-16 though, it's just that I don't think they go out of their way to appreciate TG16 / PCE versions.
Like I said, I feel that "the more versions, the better" and appreciate different variations of my favorite games.
"is version X better than version Y?" is an excellent format for examining the differences between games, but in the end I want to play BOTH versions! :)
That's why I still have PCE Strider on my "wanted games" list :)
Don't worry, I remember how you feel about Strider -- my expectations are realistic, I think ...
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Haha Strider, just don't pay too much for it! I was actually talking with Zig about Strider the other day and he mentioned that he didn't think Strider was a game that aged very well, I gotta agree actually after playing the arcade version some on the PSX. The control is pretty stiff, the collision detection is bad, and it just seems kind of glitchy. I used to think it was just the Genesis port that was like that, but the arcade suffers from the same stuff, just to a slightly lesser degree.
I still think Strider has infinitely cool characters and a premise, but I have to question all the praise that gets heaped on the actual gameplay. I'd be curious what you think about the subject too.
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I still love Strider personally. And I was just mentioning my point of view, I don't consider any of the Hudson versions bastardization's, like what he calls them. And I think Dynastic Hero once again, has a fantastic soundtrack, with more charm then what came over here as Wonderboy 5. Speaking of which, I thought both Gate of Thunder & Dynastic Hero's music were done by T's music?
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T's were a late in-house band like many Japanese publishers used to have (think JDK, KKC, SST, Zuntata...). We owe them Lords of Thunder, Sapphire, Hyper Wars, CD Denjin... But Gate and Dynastic were solely composed by Nick Wood, a 40 year old kid from good old Liverpool who's been living in Japan for about 15 years.
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Wow, you're filled with alot of knowledge, you never cease to amaze me! Well, I went ahead & ordered a copy of his album :D
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Haha Strider, just don't pay too much for it! I was actually talking with Zig about Strider the other day and he mentioned that he didn't think Strider was a game that aged very well, I gotta agree actually after playing the arcade version some on the PSX. The control is pretty stiff, the collision detection is bad, and it just seems kind of glitchy. I used to think it was just the Genesis port that was like that, but the arcade suffers from the same stuff, just to a slightly lesser degree.
I still think Strider has infinitely cool characters and a premise, but I have to question all the praise that gets heaped on the actual gameplay. I'd be curious what you think about the subject too.
I know! I've been waiting for a decent price, one of these days I'll take the plunge.
Personally, I still think that Strider rules. Yes, I agree that it doesn't seem as perfect as it once did (back in the day, I wouldn't have criticized it that much, if at all). But, despite this, I really think it is an epic, balls-out action slashin' jumping fiesta and I love it. Seriously, how many games out there (even NEW games) capture the feel of jumpin' and slashin' like Strider did (does)?
I have to be honest, I dig Ninja Gaiden on Xbox (though it still kicks my ass)... NG is one of the few contemporary games that got me excited and had some of the feeling as Strider did in the arcades (I know it might sound weird... that's just the way the game struck me).
And the Neo-Soviet stuff in Strider, the character designs, the variety of levels... man, I just love all that stuff... the entire Strider universe is kool as hell and very well done, IMO, when it comes to creating a rather unique atmosphere.
BOTTOM LINE: Like many games, Strider is showing its age. Where once I could find no fault, now I see some imperfections that make it less god-like ... but I still love it, I'd still recommend it to folks, and I'll still praise it -- though I may throw in some disclaimers. But I always have to throw in disclaimers when recommending games, so that's nothing new (i.e. the only way I could get my friends to give JJ & Jeff a chance was to characterize it as a bastardized Wonderboy 1 / Adventure Island).
RELATED GAME: Strider needed a proper sequel. There's some arcade game, I forget the name, that is very Strider-esque and seems very, very kool. Back during the post- GameFaqs / pre- famiconsumer days I remember reading about it. Some fellow had taken tons of in-game screenshots and provided extensive commentary (I don't know if it was emulated in MAME at that point).
It was a Japan-only arcade game, NOT done by Capcom, that seemed to copy the best things in Strider.
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RELATED GAME: Strider needed a proper sequel. There's some arcade game, I forget the name, that is very Strider-esque and seems very, very kool. Back during the post- GameFaqs / pre- famiconsumer days I remember reading about it. Some fellow had taken tons of in-game screenshots and provided extensive commentary (I don't know if it was emulated in MAME at that point).
It was a Japan-only arcade game, NOT done by Capcom, that seemed to copy the best things in Strider.
Well, the proper sequel is of course Strider 2, but I know what you mean. I was happy when Strider 2 came out, but the game itself wasn't as exciting as the original. Also, by that time the sequel was like 7 years after the original.
As for the arcade Strider-like game, you're probably talking about Cannon Dancer (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/raddspencer/cannondancerindex.html). I played some Strider-like game a while ago and after reading about Cannon Dancer, I thought it was that game, but after seeing the pictures, it doesn't look like the game I played. Memory is hazy because I only played that game once and the title was in Chinese.
Oh, that Cannon Dancer link was taken from this article (http://1up.com/do/feature?cId=3142487&did=1) on Strider and Strider style games. Run Saber seems really cool too.
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RELATED GAME: Strider needed a proper sequel. There's some arcade game, I forget the name, that is very Strider-esque and seems very, very kool. Back during the post- GameFaqs / pre- famiconsumer days I remember reading about it. Some fellow had taken tons of in-game screenshots and provided extensive commentary (I don't know if it was emulated in MAME at that point).
It was a Japan-only arcade game, NOT done by Capcom, that seemed to copy the best things in Strider.
Well, the proper sequel is of course Strider 2, but I know what you mean. I was happy when Strider 2 came out, but the game itself wasn't as exciting as the original. Also, by that time the sequel was like 7 years after the original.
As for the arcade Strider-like game, you're probably talking about Cannon Dancer (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/raddspencer/cannondancerindex.html). I played some Strider-like game a while ago and after reading about Cannon Dancer, I thought it was that game, but after seeing the pictures, it doesn't look like the game I played. Memory is hazy because I only played that game once and the title was in Chinese.
Oh, that Cannon Dancer link was taken from this article (http://1up.com/do/feature?cId=3142487&did=1) on Strider and Strider style games. Run Saber seems really cool too.
Rock on, Osman is it! Yes, yes, yes. This game looks so friggin' awesome. And you know what? The web page you linked to might have been created by the same person I read -- EXCEPT that I read about Osman on a message board at game.com or something like that. Maybe this fellow took his original post and made it into a proper webpage.
One of these days, I'm gonna play Osman. Run Saber looks sweet as ballz as well, I totally agree with you.
ALSO: after reading that 1up article, I found out that there was a year long manga serial prior to the release of Strider! That kind of build-up (assuming the manga was decent) is just too awesome. I am cynical and will usually dismiss tactics like this as a contrived promotion -- a marketing tactic with little merit. That said, if a halfway decent manga or novella was used to promote a game... hmm, well that's actually a really kool concept.
The trick, as I see it, is convincing folks to take the time to read the novella / manga in the first place.
FOR EXAMPLE: I literally stumbled upon a fake documentary on TV about the "Blair Witch" back in the day. I watched it with my friends and it was so kool. At this point, we didn't know it was a promotion for a movie. We thought it was semi-serious at best... but we were intrigued. At the end of the mock documentary, they provided a link to their website, which was also designed to look like a straightforward site... not a glitzy promotional site to view trailers.
Anyway, this is one of the few examples of creative promotion that totally IMPROVED the experience of the actual product. Seeing this fake documentary made Blair Witch the movie WAY more fun.
NOTE: I'm not a big fan of Blair Witch, I had a blast seeing it. That's it (never re-watched it, though I would now) -- but I still think it was remarkably awesome to promote the movie as they did.
FURTHERMORE: Of course, television programs (or should I say 22-minute advertisements) have been used to promote toy lines for ages (G.I. Joe is my personal fave). But this is an expensive endeavor, and often the television program (or movie) are of questionable quality.
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Well, I went ahead & ordered a copy of his album :D
I don't think you'll regret it. There's various material in it, mostly commercial jingles and soundtrack excerpts with a unique touch.
And I can't wait to listen to your own productions :)
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Glad you can't wait :D I can't wait either. Right now, we have numerous projects, so I'm not sure which one will be the first to be released. Mysterious Song, I actually only did some remixing to the music, so, none of the songs in that are mine. That might be our first game. We'll just have to see.
edit-That Cannon Dancer game looks great! Does it work on MAME?