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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: termis on April 08, 2012, 03:38:42 AM

Title: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: termis on April 08, 2012, 03:38:42 AM: (http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110227_2213.jpg)

After another long hiatus, I finished the next PCE RPG, so here's another review. This time, it's relatively better known (at least amongst this crowd) Tengai Makyō: Ziria. AFAIK, this is the first console-CD RPG that was released, and along with that was tagged as PCE's "big budget" RPG-series of the era. You can tell that this game clearly had Dragon Quest/Warrior as a template, and the developers simply changed the environment, added in some wacky humor, and added couple extra tidbits that CD-format allowed them to do. It's also pretty damn long. I'd guesstimate the playtime at maybe 50-60 hours or so, but it felt like it was double that. I've said this in previous reviews of other RPGs - perhaps I'm just more time-impatient these days with a job & family and all that, but this one was a just a grind toward the end. It took me 13 months(!) of on-off playing to finally finish this one off.

Anyway, starting from the gameplay - TM:Ziria feels like it was created by a cookie-cutter console-RPG-template back in the days. It's got the typical talk/tools/magic/status/etc menus in the overworld, and fight/magic/tools/run/etc... during the fight scenes. You meet several NPCs before your party eventually stabilizes into a group of three, and you carry on your fight against the evil baddies, and you have to grind quite a bit to make sure that your party has a chance of survival as they move on. Sound familiar enough? Well, the developers made sure you got a looooot of it. It's not the most impressive CD-game in terms of presentation, but man, I can say that they took advantage the abundant space storage to make sure that there was a lot of game.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110306_2221.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110303_1801.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110305_0744.jpg)

As for the more unique bits about this game, you can't not notice the wacky environment. There's the pseudo-feudal Japan setting, and the game throws a lot of goofball characters at you. Because of this unorthodox setting, it makes it more difficult for those of us who are non-Japanese to really "get" everything (language barrier aside), but it at least makes for an interesting, and more exotic setting than your typical console-RPG settings. The plenty of wacky characters that are strewn throughout the game are also memorable - the crazy gaijin Hotei, the oni father-son duo, mischievous tanuki monsters, etc., and also Tsunade, the little girl with a big axe, who provides plenty of comic relief throughout the game.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110305_1732.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110305_1623.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110303_2153.jpg)

The overworld graphics are pretty dated, but is colorful and interesting enough with the aforementioned Japanese environment, and there are a couple scenes that look quite good. Battle graphics are better than your average RPG, as there are a number of cool backgrounds, and the enemies are well detailed and are quite sizable. Cinema scenes are pretty basic - it's mostly static background shots with characters talking along. I suppose the big wow for its time would be the addition of speech, which is nothing now, but at least the voice acting is pretty well done, especially whoever did Tsunade.

The music is almost all chiptunes. It's not bad, and it fits the mood and atmosphere of the game. However, it's nothing particularly memorable IMO. Being a CD game and all, some cool redbook tunes here and there in the overworld would've been nice.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110723_0844.jpg) (http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110420_2134.jpg) (http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-120407_1936.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110227_2215.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110309_1729_1.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/thumpin_termis/Tengai Makyo Ziria/CDTengaiMakyou-ZIRIASuperCDJ-110305_2203.jpg)

All said, I would've been mighty impressed had I played this game when it was first released -- when I was playing the likes of Dragon Warrior I. Compared to the competitors of its time, graphics are much more colorful, enemies are big and detailed, plenty of cut-scenes, and even speech(!). The only one that might've held a candle to this game perhaps would've been Phantasy Star I (which was way ahead of its time IMO). However, there are just a number of aspects about this game that hasn't aged very well.

Still, if you're a retro-gamer, you can appreciate how much has gone into making a game like this in a 1989-context. If you like old-school RPGs and the PCE, Ziria should be on your playlist, but make plenty of time for it.

I still have the sequels - Manji Maru and Kabuki-den to go through (which I've bought in 2005!), and just from screenshots and reviews from others here, I'm expecting a lot more polish from them...

Compilation of my other reviews:
Aurora Quest: Otaku no Seiza in Another World (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5233.msg90177#msg90177)
Ane-san (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2966.msg37879#msg37879)
Babel (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3409.msg48437#msg48437)
Bakushō Yoshimoto Shinkigeki (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=8343.msg141057#msg141057)
Blood Gear (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3119.msg41363#msg41363)
Burai (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9189.msg162002#msg162002)
Cosmic Fantasy 1 (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3055.msg39559#msg39559)
Cosmic Fantasy 3 (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9146.msg157210#msg157210)
Dragon Knight III (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9179.msg158148#msg158148)
Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2785.msg34106#msg34106)
Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes II (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2785.msg37365#msg37365)
Downtown Nekketsu Monogatari (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2450.msg27156#msg27156)
KO Seiki: Beast Sanjūshi (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2715.msg32720#msg32720)
Kūsōkagaku Sekai: Gulliver Boy (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2505.msg28469#msg28469)
Nekketsu Legend Baseballer (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3582.msg52562#msg52562)
Tengai Makyō: Itōryōdan (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3105.msg40926#msg40926)
Valis I~IV (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5167.msg88753#msg88753)
Xak I & II (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4266.msg70826#msg70826)
Xak III (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4580.msg75930#msg75930)
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: esteban on April 08, 2012, 05:11:58 AM: Dude, I have enjoyed reading all of your reviews (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png).
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Digi.k on April 08, 2012, 06:02:11 AM: aye good review there. I would love an image of the game cover on your op thread too
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: RegalSin on April 08, 2012, 06:02:12 AM: Tengai Makyo is a misinformed take on culture of Jipango. Like a spoof of everything and strived to be ideal like most commercialized works. I was reading somewhere how the entire PCE development was made for this one game.

At first your like oh, look small midget famicom characters. Then you have all the jaw dropping animated sequences, which brings the game to life. Unlike the gba with head shots, of all the characters, you get nice cut scenes instead with voices.

The way the characters are drawn is how everybody should draw as well. After this game, everything went commercial with the series.
Why did NEC try and improve over something perfect?
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: roflmao on April 08, 2012, 06:34:27 AM: Great review! Thanks.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 08, 2012, 07:21:42 AM: Ziria actually feels kind of on the short side to me, especially compared to Manjimaru. :P

It's too bad that they switched to that clay model look at the last minute. Before that, it had a cool anime style similar to TMII/Kabukiden, except with large characters. The overworld still looks nice enough, even if it's not so clear what they were aiming for (see the manual). The fights are definitely an improvement over the earlier versions though, and look very nice compared to most 16-bit RPGs.

This game actually came out on CD before the Genesis and TurboGrafx-16 were released. :)
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: RegalSin on April 08, 2012, 11:57:46 AM: Clay model look?
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 08, 2012, 12:49:02 PM: Quote from: RegalSin on April 08, 2012, 11:57:46 AM
Clay model look?

The manual has photos of the SD clay figures that the in-game graphics are based on.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Keranu on April 08, 2012, 01:30:45 PM: Great review! Always wanted to play through this one before Manji Maru, sounds like a lot of work.

Does anyone have scans of the SD clay figures? I actually rather like the big-googly eyed sprites in this game!
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: NightWolve on April 08, 2012, 02:25:42 PM: Quote from: termis on April 08, 2012, 03:38:42 AM
Being a CD game and all, some cool redbook tunes here and there in the overworld would've been nice.

I think I know the reason for that. The data track is 120 MB and going by the standard approach for creating a PCE CD, the last [backup] track is also 120 MB, so there's 240 MB gone right there, leaving a little more than half of the disc for redbook audio (say, 360 MB and what not). So yeah, you're right, they wanted to make sure that there was a lot of game! There are only 3 redbook audio tracks.

This reminded me, here's an old, kinda interesting page a buddy of mine made, a Finish guy, called Akimaru (I hosted it for him ever since he lost his webspace, I thought it was interesting/informative/historical, but a couple years ago when I caught up with him, he asked me to delete it cause he was kinda embarrassed by his English, but I'm an old foggie so I couldn't, I kept it around, tucked away...): http://www.ysutopia.net/special/aki/ziria.html

Basically, he tried to fan translate this game to English back in the day so that was an early project page. Having met him and learning about it, I tried to see if I could hack it myself, but it was beyond the scope of my abilities (even today); I believe David Shadoff looked into it as well at one point with me. I remember we talked about it. But yeah, that's how I knew about the large data tracks. The only other Turbo-CD I can think of that had very large comparable data tracks was good ole Dinosaur Tour, NEC's "educational" series. ;)

Anyway, nice colorful screenshots BTW! I loves me my eye candy and not bad for the ole PCE/Turbo-CD. :)
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: rag-time4 on April 08, 2012, 07:08:00 PM: I would really like to find a complete copy of the CD-ROM2 version of Ziria with the spine and all for around $20, but it's surprisingly hard to find complete.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Keranu on April 08, 2012, 07:19:52 PM: Quote from: NightWolve on April 08, 2012, 02:25:42 PM
This reminded me, here's an old, kinda interesting page a buddy of mine made, a Finish guy, called Akimaru (I hosted it for him ever since he lost his webspace, I thought it was interesting/informative/historical, but a couple years ago when I caught up with him, he asked me to delete it cause he was kinda embarrassed by his English, but I'm an old foggie so I couldn't, I kept it around, tucked away...): http://www.ysutopia.net/special/aki/ziria.html

Ahhhh I remember reading that page 10 years ago! I used to frequent that site often and drool over the Ys IV screenshots! The good old RIGG days, can't beat em!
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: NightWolve on April 08, 2012, 08:03:54 PM: Quote from: Keranu on April 08, 2012, 07:19:52 PM
The good old RIGG days, can't beat em!

Eh, we had some good days, AND then some not so good days, but this place was always better if you ask me. ;)
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: SignOfZeta on April 08, 2012, 08:38:55 PM: I have this game but I have never played it, not very long anyway. I have spent quite a bit of time with TM2 and Kabuki Den though and I can say that if you like this one you are going to SHIT A BRICK on the two sequels. They are absolutely amazing.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: grahf on April 08, 2012, 11:16:58 PM: I sunk about two hours into this one, and loved it so far. I haven't really played any of the Tengais yet beyond just trying them out, but they're on the to-play list. Probably after I finish of Ys IV...

Everyone raves about this series, so I'm sure I'm in for a treat.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: esteban on April 09, 2012, 12:41:38 AM: Every time I read a review or see "new" (to me) screenshots, I say to myself, "I gotta play TM: Ziria! Forget about all the other games out there, this is the one I have to focus on!"

Then, the next thing I know, a year has passed me by and all I've managed to do is beat Faxanadu for the thousandth time and Golvellius (SMS) for the hundredth time. Perhaps I only have room for ARPG's in my heart...

(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: termis on April 09, 2012, 04:14:24 AM: Thanks for the comments. I like writing these reviews not only to share with you all, but to remind myself what I thought of them when I look at them years down the line! At this rate, it's unlikely that I'll play most of these (at least the RPGs) ever again once I finish them (bar the truly exceptional ones), so it's interesting when I look at my own reviews down the line.

Anyway, I do look forward to playing the sequels, but I just can't fathom the thought of sinking another 60+ hours in another game any time soon. Something short/sweet, but don't know what that'll be just yet...
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Necromancer on April 09, 2012, 05:58:34 AM: Thanks for another lovely review, Termis. One of these days I hope to actually put 'em to use.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on April 09, 2012, 08:01:22 AM: They did try to revive the series with Ziria on the 360, & IIRC, someone(maybe Gaijinworks) was trying to bring it over. I would've dusted off my 360 to play it in english! Though, I did just pick up both Manji Maru & Namida recently, though haven't checked either out yet. Mainly got them just to collect them. I'd like to pick up the PSP Tengai collection as well as Apocalypse (also on PSP). There's also the DS version of Manji Maru, though, it seems kind of pointless to pick that up if I get the PSP collection, but I still might.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: shubibiman on April 09, 2012, 08:22:24 AM: Ryuichi Sakamoto composed one of the 3 redbook tunes.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 09, 2012, 03:21:02 PM: Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on April 09, 2012, 08:01:22 AM
They did try to revive the series with Ziria on the 360, & IIRC, someone(maybe Gaijinworks) was trying to bring it over. I would've dusted off my 360 to play it in english! Though, I did just pick up both Manji Maru & Namida recently, though haven't checked either out yet. Mainly got them just to collect them. I'd like to pick up the PSP Tengai collection as well as Apocalypse (also on PSP). There's also the DS version of Manji Maru, though, it seems kind of pointless to pick that up if I get the PSP collection, but I still might.

I've had Ziria 360 for a while, but still need to get a Japanese system to play. Unfortunately, it's not one of the region free games. Namida is probably the second hardest Tengai Makyou RPG to navigate if you aren't fluent in Japanese. Very cool for PS2 though, even if it's too "modern" in it's style. The Apocalypse IV is very well done on PSP.It's a pixel-for-pixel port, so you get a better view of dungeons whenever it is as wide as the screen. There is also some nice new portrait art in-game and it's all on a single UMD. The original is on 2 discs and requires swapping them in-game, which won't work if you're using a cart to unlock the region. The DS Manjimaru is a mash of the Gamecube/PS2 and PCE versions. I believe that the PSP version just emulates the actual PCE game. I recommend playing a faithful version of TMII before trying the GC/PS2/DS versions.

Quote from: rag-time4 on April 08, 2012, 07:08:00 PM
I would really like to find a complete copy of the CD-ROM2 version of Ziria with the spine and all for around $20, but it's surprisingly hard to find complete.

It comes with a foam insert for the second disc tray spot. The back insert/cover of the case is actually an iridescent sticker.

Quote from: Keranu on April 08, 2012, 01:30:45 PM
Does anyone have scans of the SD clay figures? I actually rather like the big-googly eyed sprites in this game!

Here ya go-

(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/zf1.jpg)

(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/zf2.jpg)

(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/zf3.jpg)
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Keranu on April 09, 2012, 03:42:17 PM: Hah! Not exactly the best sculpting, but cool nonetheless! I like the lawn.

Quote from: shubibiman on April 09, 2012, 08:22:24 AM
Ryuichi Sakamoto composed one of the 3 redbook tunes.
Sweetness, I gotta hear that!
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on April 09, 2012, 06:25:17 PM: Yeah, I recall hearing the DS version was a mashup. Ofcoarse, if only that game made it to the States, I would've picked that one up for sure. I'll probably never play thru a single one of the games, knowing my lack of time. I've played thru a few untranslated RPG's BITD, but, I just haven't had the time as I get older.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: NightWolve on April 09, 2012, 09:34:22 PM: Dave Shadoff was in the #mednafen chan a couple of hours ago and I remembered to ask him about the translation project for this game.

Quote
<NightWolve> Dave, wasn't there a serious Ziria project ?
<dshadoff__> yeah
<NightWolve> http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11520.0
<dshadoff__> we extracted part of the text
<NightWolve> I was telling them about it there, but I couldn't remember details.
<NightWolve> What happened ?
<dshadoff__> well, EsperKnight found a translator
<dshadoff__> can't remember whether it was SamIAm or another guy who goes by the handle "Tom"
<Arkhan> Tom goes by Tom.
<NightWolve> ah, I've seen them.
<Arkhan> Tomaitheous, Malducii, thats Tom.
<dshadoff__> not that Tom
<NightWolve> Well, he's the super hacker.
<dshadoff__> right, not translator
<dshadoff__> but while the original extract seemed nominally complete, it wasn't clean enough
<dshadoff__> so Esperknight went back for a cleaner extract
<dshadoff__> he thinks he's got it now too
<dshadoff__> the hacking looks not so bad to do either
<NightWolve> Ah, so the project is alive here and there.
<dshadoff__> and the cinemas alreayd have subtitles
<NightWolve> Amidst other projects those guys are working on.
<dshadoff__> yup
<NightWolve> I know he's had a lot on his plate.
<NightWolve> LOX II.
<dshadoff__> yeah that one is still in roughly the same condition as several months ago
<dshadoff__> great progress, small blip, then big pause
<NightWolve> cool

So EsperKnight is on the case. He's also working on Legend of Xanadu II.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: termis on April 10, 2012, 12:37:33 AM: Quote from: Black Tiger on April 09, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
The Apocalypse IV is very well done on... ...The original is on 2 discs and requires swapping them in-game, which won't work if you're using a cart to unlock the region.

Just a random side question -- so it TM4 doesn't make you save before you swap over to the second disc? (Not that it really matters for me as I've put in a switch, but just curious)

Quote from: NightWolve on April 09, 2012, 09:34:22 PM
Dave Shadoff was in the #mednafen chan a couple of hours ago and I remembered to ask him about the translation project for this game.

Quote
<NightWolve> Dave, wasn't there a serious Ziria project ?
<dshadoff__> yeah
...
<NightWolve> Ah, so the project is alive here and there.
...
<dshadoff__> yup

Yeah, I remember seeing some pics here and there posted here (I distinctly remember the "Chinese take-out font"). I did at one point thought "Hmm... Maybe I can wait till they finish the translation to start the series", but we all know how long these hobby projects can take... :P
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: SamIAm on April 10, 2012, 01:54:30 AM: Quote from: NightWolve on April 09, 2012, 09:34:22 PM
So EsperKnight is on the case. He's also working on Legend of Xanadu II.

...and still making progress on Xanadu II. Just last night, he emailed me the latest dump that has as much of the script in it as we've ever gotten. It's still going.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 10, 2012, 09:05:41 AM: Quote from: termis on April 10, 2012, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: Black Tiger on April 09, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
The Apocalypse IV is very well done on... ...The original is on 2 discs and requires swapping them in-game, which won't work if you're using a cart to unlock the region.

Just a random side question -- so it TM4 doesn't make you save before you swap over to the second disc? (Not that it really matters for me as I've put in a switch, but just curious)

I bought it when it came out and was using the "Sega Key" or whatever EB sold at the time. The game brings up a disc swapping screen and after sawpping discs, the game would freeze abd I'd lose my orogress from my last save up to that point.

I went back to the local import store I bought the game for $180 from, explained the situation and asked if I could load my save file on their modded display Saturn, play through to the next disc and save again. They're were totally cool with it as they were preoccupued with the last Romance if the Three Kingdoms 3D fighter for PSX. I had to play a little further to get to the next save point and then transfered the file to by backup cart. I later had them mod my system so it wouldn't an issue for any future import RPGs.

While the Netlink was still going strong, there was a page where people could post game saves. I made sure to post the save at the beginning if disc two so that no one else would have the probkem I did.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: RegalSin on April 10, 2012, 09:35:02 AM: Quote from: Black Tiger on April 08, 2012, 12:49:02 PM

The manual has photos of the SD clay figures that the in-game graphics are based on.

I don't really get you, if your talking about the over screen characters, that is what over screen characters look like in most rpg games. The only other imagery of what the characters could have looked like is from the save screen.

Their are tons of hand drawn imagery in the game cut scenes, and instructional booklet, so I still do not understand. Unless you probably meant for, characters to look like action/display figures in their full comical/animated form, that is something else.

Earthbound, Phantasy Star, secret of mana II, and some other games also have clay figures made for them. So I do not understand.

I could imagine the costs to get super duper exprienced artists and make a whole toy line, instead of hiring somebody to make a diarama, featuring the characters. They would have also have them pose in various ways as well.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: nectarsis on April 10, 2012, 09:39:16 AM: Quote from: RegalSin on April 10, 2012, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Black Tiger on April 08, 2012, 12:49:02 PM

The manual has photos of the SD clay figures that the in-game graphics are based on.

I don't really get you, if your talking about the over screen characters, that is what over screen characters look like in most rpg games. The only other imagery of what the characters could have looked like is from the save screen.

Their are tons of hand drawn imagery in the game cut scenes, and instructional booklet, so I still do not understand. Unless you probably meant for, characters to look like action/display figures in their full comical/animated form, that is something else.

Earthbound, Phantasy Star, secret of mana II, and some other games also have clay figures made for them. So I do not understand.

I could imagine the costs to get super duper exprienced artists and make a whole toy line, instead of hiring somebody to make a diarama, featuring the characters. They would have also have them pose in various ways as well.

#-o Try looking up a few posts
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 10, 2012, 02:13:49 PM: Quote from: RegalSin on April 10, 2012, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Black Tiger on April 08, 2012, 12:49:02 PM

The manual has photos of the SD clay figures that the in-game graphics are based on.

I don't really get you, if your talking about the over screen characters, that is what over screen characters look like in most rpg games. The only other imagery of what the characters could have looked like is from the save screen.

Their are tons of hand drawn imagery in the game cut scenes, and instructional booklet, so I still do not understand. Unless you probably meant for, characters to look like action/display figures in their full comical/animated form, that is something else.

Earthbound, Phantasy Star, secret of mana II, and some other games also have clay figures made for them. So I do not understand.

I could imagine the costs to get super duper exprienced artists and make a whole toy line, instead of hiring somebody to make a diarama, featuring the characters. They would have also have them pose in various ways as well.

The characters aren't simply SD style and some clay models were made to mimic them, the clay models are the pre-rendered art that the overhead sprites are made from. It's the same as how Treasure Hunter G doesn't simply have simplified sprites 'just like every RPG' and some cgi was made based on them. They are based on the pre-rendered cgi. Earthbound, Phantasy Star, and SD3 don't have sprites and backgrounds based on clay figures like Clay Fighter.

Ziria was all set to look very similar to Samurai Spirits RPG, as you can see in .

(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/zold1.jpg)(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/zold2.jpg)

But in the end, they made the maps and sprites look like those clay models instead. The visual style isn't simply crude/dirty RPG art, it's actually trying to depict a specific style... which was ditched in all future TM/FEOE games.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: RegalSin on April 11, 2012, 03:21:43 PM: Nahhh I think they made the right decision. They wanted the game to look fun and not be too serious. If EOD was ever serious it would have probably end up being far more violent, and serious.

The clay model had to be made afterwards for them to be featured in the booklet like that. It makes more sense like that then to say "hey look lets make them look, like that instead".

It leaves more to the imagination.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 12, 2012, 03:57:32 PM: Quote from: RegalSin on April 11, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Nahhh I think they made the right decision. They wanted the game to look fun and not be too serious. If EOD was ever serious it would have probably end up being far more violent, and serious.

The clay model had to be made afterwards for them to be featured in the booklet like that. It makes more sense like that then to say "hey look lets make them look, like that instead".

It leaves more to the imagination.

If you look at TMII and Kabukiden, you can see what SD style versions of the anime art looks like. The SD art in TMII's start/load screen and the SD art for Shin Den all feel part of the same style. Ziria's maps and sprites all look like mini clay figure displays. It doesn't matter when those figures were made, the point is that they used a particular unique style on purpose.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: shawnji on April 16, 2012, 10:56:10 PM: Is there any particular difference between the CD-Rom2 and the Super CD versions of this game? I keep looking at them whenever I hit up Akihabara, but I can't decide which version I should get or if I should just get both for the sake of collecting.

I'm without a doubt going to have to pick up that PSP port of Apocalypse, though. I never see it anywhere used so I kind of forgot it existed. I've wanted to play that ever since I first read Hardcore Gaming's write-up on it way back when. I would never have known anything about the series if I hadn't been a regular visitor of De-Jap Translations and noticed their section on Zero for the SFC. Really piqued my interest.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: RegalSin on April 16, 2012, 11:18:05 PM: I do not know. Ziria is the first game, and the entire system was made entirely for the purpose of that game itself. The fourth game is a Saturn game, and should be played via the Saturn, for full enjoyment, I don't know how a person could in take that in on a PSP, it is not the same.

Zero itself should have been made for the PCE, the SNES had some good things about it, but it just blows Dragon Quest away and that is about it. Every stage in Zero is like, find the missing item, go foward, fight area master, get power up, and that is it. The story itself is really intresting but I think RED/Hudson reused portions of
III/IV inside of it. The intresting thing in Zero is the summon system, and the egg/time system. Which affects how everything looks, and reacts to how long you spend playing this game, like Pokemon GS. I never finished the game, I got tired of the ultimate RPGness of the game itself.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: shawnji on April 16, 2012, 11:23:59 PM: Quote from: RegalSin on April 16, 2012, 11:18:05 PM
I do not know. Ziria is the first game, and the entire system was made entirely for the purpose of that game itself. The fourth game is a Saturn game, and should be played via the Saturn, for full enjoyment, I don't know how a person could in take that in on a PSP, it is not the same.

Yeah, I would rather play the Saturn version; but I'm hesitant to pick up a system just for one game since there's not much else I'd be interested in at the moment outside of Panzer Dragoon. Ah well, I've still got to get through the rest of the series first anyway. The only one I've played through in its entirety is Far East of Eden Zero.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: termis on April 17, 2012, 01:21:36 AM: Yeah, I can't remember who looked into the differences between the Super CD-ROM and the CD-ROM versions (Bonknuts maybe?... it was someone quite competent at hacking, anyway), but the Super CD-ROM supposedly used the extra RAM for loading the text in the game or something to that effect.

No one I know has actually said that the Super CD-ROM version feels faster or anything of that sort... If anything, I recall people saying that they felt no difference between the two.

This is all going by memory (these posts were from years and years ago), so take it all with a grain of salt. It would be interesting if someone posted differences loading time differences between the two - if any.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 17, 2012, 01:28:34 AM: Quote from: termis on April 17, 2012, 01:21:36 AM
Yeah, I can't remember who looked into the differences between the Super CD-ROM and the CD-ROM versions (Bonknuts maybe?... it was someone quite competent at hacking, anyway), but the Super CD-ROM supposedly used the extra RAM for loading the text in the game or something to that effect.

No one I know has actually said that the Super CD-ROM version feels faster or anything of that sort... If anything, I recall people saying that they felt no difference between the two.

This is all going by memory (these posts were from years and years ago), so take it all with a grain of salt. It would be interesting if someone posted differences loading time differences between the two - if any.

Although I didn't do any extensive testing, I never noticed any difference other than the System Card warning screen, which is very cool. Since the Super CD version was created simply to promote the new format/hardware, I'm guessing that it's the same game otherwise, only there's a flag to stop CD2 systems from playing it.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Necromancer on April 17, 2012, 03:03:21 AM: Quote from: termis on April 17, 2012, 01:21:36 AM
Yeah, I can't remember who looked into the differences between the Super CD-ROM and the CD-ROM versions (Bonknuts maybe?... it was someone quite competent at hacking, anyway), but the Super CD-ROM supposedly used the extra RAM for loading the text in the game or something to that effect.

Good memory! -

Quote from: Bonknuts on June 08, 2007, 06:05:35 PM
As far as the difference between Ziria CD and SCD: the SCD version was recompiled for SCD and the script is compressed so it does use the extra memory of the SCD unit.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on April 17, 2012, 05:58:53 AM: Quote from: Necromancer on April 17, 2012, 03:03:21 AM
Quote from: termis on April 17, 2012, 01:21:36 AM
Yeah, I can't remember who looked into the differences between the Super CD-ROM and the CD-ROM versions (Bonknuts maybe?... it was someone quite competent at hacking, anyway), but the Super CD-ROM supposedly used the extra RAM for loading the text in the game or something to that effect.

Good memory! -

Quote from: Bonknuts on June 08, 2007, 06:05:35 PM
As far as the difference between Ziria CD and SCD: the SCD version was recompiled for SCD and the script is compressed so it does use the extra memory of the SCD unit.

So does this just amount to shorter load times in the end?
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Necromancer on April 17, 2012, 06:40:49 AM: Quote from: Black Tiger on April 17, 2012, 05:58:53 AM
So does this just amount to shorter load times in the end?

Yes overall (longer loads but less of 'em).
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: grahf on April 18, 2012, 12:36:24 AM: Probably less wear and tear on the laser, but essentially none.
I picked up the Super CD version myself, just because I liked the look of the case better.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on April 19, 2012, 06:33:26 PM: Quote from: shawnji on April 16, 2012, 10:56:10 PM
Is there any particular difference between the CD-Rom2 and the Super CD versions of this game? I keep looking at them whenever I hit up Akihabara, but I can't decide which version I should get or if I should just get both for the sake of collecting.

I'm without a doubt going to have to pick up that PSP port of Apocalypse, though. I never see it anywhere used so I kind of forgot it existed. I've wanted to play that ever since I first read Hardcore Gaming's write-up on it way back when. I would never have known anything about the series if I hadn't been a regular visitor of De-Jap Translations and noticed their section on Zero for the SFC. Really piqued my interest.

If you want to eventually play it in english, I recommend getting the original version. The translation patch was going to be for that(including possible subtitles), since it has more free memory to be used. From what I recall, it is going to be turned into a Super CD & take advantage of the extra space. Or...to be safe, get both! I have both, just incase :) Ofcoase, the guy working on it(IIRC) is the same that's working on LoX2 right now, so, I have no clue how soon it could be before Ziria is done. :/
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: rag-time4 on April 29, 2012, 06:04:32 AM: Quote from: Keranu on April 09, 2012, 03:42:17 PM
Hah! Not exactly the best sculpting, but cool nonetheless! I like the lawn.

Quote from: shubibiman on April 09, 2012, 08:22:24 AM
Ryuichi Sakamoto composed one of the 3 redbook tunes.
Sweetness, I gotta hear that!
Personally, I think the eyebrows over the helmet are a riot!
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: gbapalyer on August 21, 2012, 06:18:45 PM: i started the game 3 days ago and right now i played it for 10 hours. awesome game and my first tengai game ever.
a little bit hard and i died often because of limited item space, high battle encounter rate and some tough enemies. but still an awesome game.

i did beat final fantasy 4 on DS and i will beat that one for sure. i played over 100 jrpgs in my life and it wont be a problem.
if manjimaru and fuun kabuki den are better than ziria i cant wait to get to those ones. yees^^

BTW: does anyone have menue translations (battle+normal menue) for manji maru and kabuki den?
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: Black Tiger on August 22, 2012, 05:19:08 AM: Quote from: gbapalyer on August 21, 2012, 06:18:45 PM
i started the game 3 days ago and right now i played it for 10 hours. awesome game and my first tengai game ever.
a little bit hard and i died often because of limited item space, high battle encounter rate and some tough enemies. but still an awesome game.

i did beat final fantasy 4 on DS and i will beat that one for sure. i played over 100 jrpgs in my life and it wont be a problem.
if manjimaru and fuun kabuki den are better than ziria i cant wait to get to those ones. yees^^

BTW: does anyone have menue translations (battle+normal menue) for manji maru and kabuki den?

I'll add the menu translations to my walkthroughs next time I remember while at home. I also have an English manual for Kabukiden that I've been meaning to scan in and post.
Title: Re: REVIEW: Tengai Makyō: Ziria
Post by: gbapalyer on August 22, 2012, 08:54:57 AM: @blacktiger: that sounds awesome and when can we expect these things to come? i hope soon. ;) are your guides at gamefaqs.com?