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Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: spenoza on April 28, 2012, 05:00:20 PM
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I tried the first tutorial. While the explanations are very detailed about why you do certain steps and of certain programming conventions, the explanations are often a tad lacking when it comes to what the various commands are actually doing (in terms of forward learning). Then again it may be that palettes and color assignments aren't appropriate to delve too deeply into in lesson 1.
The output I got from huc is hello.s, not hello.pce. Looks like assembly output. How to I actually get it to a PCE file?
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They're not commands, they're functions! And, you don't need any forward learning. Is that even a real thing? I'm not sure how you learn forward.
and, are you sure you didn't get a .pce? Post a screenshot of your build process.
If you go huc hello.c on the command line, it should compile to assembly, and then assemble to a pce for you. Did you do huc -s hello.c ?? That will give you assembly.
If you did that, just do pceas hello.s
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Link me to the tutorial please?
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Link me to the tutorial please?
Here's lesson 1: http://www.obeybrew.com/index.php?title=A_Crash_Course_In_HuC_-_Part_1
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They're not commands, they're functions! And, you don't need any forward learning. Is that even a real thing? I'm not sure how you learn forward.
If I were in class I would care that I didn't call them functions, but since I'm not, I don't : )
What I meant by forward learning is that some people think you should only learn what you need to know about what you're doing right at that step, meaning if you use a function for a particular purpose all you need to know is that it does what you want and what arguments you need to provide it with. Another theory of learning, one that suits me better, is if I'm using that function, go ahead and tell me all about it, not just what it does in this example but what it can do more broadly. I found the explanations in that tutorial were OK for that tutorial, but I would have liked a clearer, more forward looking explanation of what was going on with the palette functions. The explanation was a little murky on that. I knew what I was doing, but a clearer, more concise, and more general/broadly applicable wording might have been nice.
and, are you sure you didn't get a .pce? Post a screenshot of your build process.
If you go huc hello.c on the command line, it should compile to assembly, and then assemble to a pce for you. Did you do huc -s hello.c ?? That will give you assembly.
If you did that, just do pceas hello.s
I didn't use the -s flag on HuC. It simply created a .s file in the directory with the .c, with no .pce anywhere to be found.
Part of the problem is that the zipped file of the HuC stuff subdivides all the files into different directories, but HuC seems to want everything lumped together in the same directory. So am I just supposed to work with one monolithic directory that has everything on the same level? And if so, why did the zip file put everything in directories?
NM, I'm apparently supposed to path this shit, which is annoying because my path is already pretty large, but oh well.
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If I were in class I would care that I didn't call them functions, but since I'm not, I don't : )
They were called functions before there were classes about programming. If you want others to understand what you may be talking about, you should use the right words for things like that.
What I meant by forward learning is that some people think you should only learn what you need to know about what you're doing right at that step, meaning if you use a function for a particular purpose all you need to know is that it does what you want and what arguments you need to provide it with. Another theory of learning, one that suits me better, is if I'm using that function, go ahead and tell me all about it, not just what it does in this example but what it can do more broadly. I found the explanations in that tutorial were OK for that tutorial, but I would have liked a clearer, more forward looking explanation of what was going on with the palette functions. The explanation was a little murky on that. I knew what I was doing, but a clearer, more concise, and more general/broadly applicable wording might have been nice.
This is called "Look them up in the reference". There is a reference in the HuC doc directory. It explains what the arguments are and what the functions do.
I didn't use the -s flag on HuC. It simply created a .s file in the directory with the .c, with no .pce anywhere to be found.
That means you don't have everything installed right and it couldn't find the PCEAS.exe to assemble. Did you run this from a cmd window? It should have told you something along those lines.
NM, I'm apparently supposed to path this shit, which is annoying because my path is already pretty large, but oh well.
welcome to programming/using command line programs/DOS/the 80s
Also, it helps to follow the HuC installation instructions properly, lol.
http://www.zeograd.com/parse.php?src=hucf&path=0,2,#installation
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They were called functions before there were classes about programming. If you want others to understand what you may be talking about, you should use the right words for things like that.
You are correct, of course, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to be a little snarky. I think you inspire it in me.
This is called "Look them up in the reference". There is a reference in the HuC doc directory. It explains what the arguments are and what the functions do.
Yes, and I've found it somewhat helpful so far, although the write-ups aren't always beginner friendly. I do think the first tutorial could use a little tightening-up in the writing/explanation department, but it is sufficient. It seems there is a gap between the level of explanation in the tutorial and the function references. It goes from "total noob" to "hrm... I kinda get it, but I don't completely understand". There's some ground in the middle that simply isn't addressed by the documentation. Then again, this is not a commercial, professional language, and nobody is getting paid to fill in the blanks.
That means you don't have everything installed right and it couldn't find the PCEAS.exe to assemble. Did you run this from a cmd window? It should have told you something along those lines.
It didn't, oddly. It did tell me it couldn't find huc.h and some .asm file, so I copied all the files into a separate directory with huc.exe, and at that point it would run and generate a .s file, but it didn't tell me specifically what I needed beyond that.
welcome to programming/using command line programs/DOS/the 80s
Also, it helps to follow the HuC installation instructions properly, lol.
You know, even when I did Pascal in DOS I was doing it in Dr. Pascal, which was a pre-configured programming environment designed for learning Pascal. When I did Java in college I was using Code Warrior and working on my Mac (or on Windows in the classroom). I'm used to screwing around with DOS and the command line, but I've never used a DOS programming language like this, so this is very new to me. Thanks for the link. I already found it and set up my PATH variables, so everything compiles properly now, but if I hadn't found it on my own you would've saved my bacon.
I'm looking forward to doing more of the tutorials when I have time, and hopefully I can do something with what I'll have learned.
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This comment is not about the tutorials, but about programming languages in general. I hate the _ underscore character. It is in an annoying place on the keyboard, yet programming functions use it all the damn time. Drives me nuts.
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Yes, and I've found it somewhat helpful so far, although the write-ups aren't always beginner friendly. I do think the first tutorial could use a little tightening-up in the writing/explanation department, but it is sufficient. It seems there is a gap between the level of explanation in the tutorial and the function references. It goes from "total noob" to "hrm... I kinda get it, but I don't completely understand". There's some ground in the middle that simply isn't addressed by the documentation. Then again, this is not a commercial, professional language, and nobody is getting paid to fill in the blanks.
Get used to it. The PCE / HuC docs in general leave a bit to be desired. You have to take what you can get and roll with it basically.
You know, even when I did Pascal in DOS I was doing it in Dr. Pascal, which was a pre-configured programming environment designed for learning Pascal. When I did Java in college I was using Code Warrior and working on my Mac (or on Windows in the classroom).
Classrooms should have taught you how to setup and deal with the bare basics: a text editor, a source file, and a compiler configured to run from the command line properly.
You have to learn to walk before you can run, basically.
It's not a DOS programming language, it's just a DOS program. Or, it may be a Windows one (depending which one you got), but its still command line, and still requires you to set all of that up properly.
Its all going to seem confusing at first. Check out zeograd.com for open sourced stuff people did over the years. You can learn from alot of it.
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Classrooms should have taught you how to setup and deal with the bare basics: a text editor, a source file, and a compiler configured to run from the command line properly.
...
Its all going to seem confusing at first. Check out zeograd.com for open sourced stuff people did over the years. You can learn from alot of it.
Well, I did take Java at a school where they only had a couple computer science classes. It was a small, liberal arts place. Very highly ranked, unless you wanted to do, say, comp sci. Instructor chose CodeWarrior because it was cross platform. On the Mac (under OS 6 - 9) you never had to go command line, and that's what I used most of the time. In that context, in that classroom, it made complete sense not to deal with command line stuff. Were it a school that had a program and was teaching more than just Java then I very much agree. Hell, I got as far as a checkers program that wouldn't let you make invalid moves. Where I quit was trying to program a decent checkers AI (or really any checkers AI, because I wasn't going to write a crappy one), because I was a senior in my last semester and my international studies thesis was not going to write itself.
My problem was simply not reading the directions. That's all. Pretty simple mistake, and fortunately, easy to fix (though not necessarily at 2:30 AM). And yeah, I'm expecting it to be a little confusing. I'm not expecting it to be easy, any way, though it would be nice. Maybe when I'm more comfortable with HuC I'll explore a few little assembly routines as well. I'm willing to hand-code arrays if that'll make a big difference (and if that's what's ruining an otherwise great idea/implementation).
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Maybe when I'm more comfortable with HuC I'll explore a few little assembly routines as well. I'm willing to hand-code arrays if that'll make a big difference (and if that's what's ruining an otherwise great idea/implementation).
The >> and << shift operators are also pretty slow. And the increased amount you shift by also increases (by a lot). I.e. var>>=3; is a lot slower than var<<=1; which is already slow to begin with. Makes it very slow for doing fixed point numbers. The compiler should be placing a simple shift macro (with a fast loop) into the code listing, but it doesn't.
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Just as an aside, whenever I code, I like to do it in a basic text editor. I hate it when something tries to second guess you, or add redundant code. Admittedly, it's not like I'm coding more than a few hundred lines at a time, but still.
The only thing I quite like is when things add colours to your code, like VIM.
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I use notepad++ for anything really.
Except for way-larger-projects, where I use VisualStudio2003.
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I like Crimson Editor. Plain text editor that auto indents and colorizes common syntax. Works well with HuC, IMO.
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I can't install HuC - I'm using this one http://www.zeograd.com/download_presentation.php?lang=en&id=312
does it work in Windows 7? I'm trying to unpack it and click huc.exe.
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get the Win32 version. I use it with 64-bit Windows 7, no probrem!
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get the Win32 version. I use it with 64-bit Windows 7, no probrem!
Dammit... I can't find win 32 version - at least it doesn't specifically state win 32... Which one on here?
http://www.zeograd.com/huc_download.php
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I can't install HuC - I'm using this one http://www.zeograd.com/download_presentation.php?lang=en&id=312
does it work in Windows 7? I'm trying to unpack it and click huc.exe.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but to compile you don't want to double click, you want to run it from the command line so that you can specify arguments (like say the file to compile :) ).
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The section under "Win"
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It also helps to read the instructions. :)
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Yeah, don't skip the path parts.
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It also helps to read the instructions. :)
It helps to understand the instructions at least. I don't have much idea what to do. Can someone give me a step by step?
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To be fair, the instructions aren't very well-written... much like the rest of the documentation. There's really nothing to "install" though... you just copy the files to somewhere on your hard drive and make some changes to the environment variables.
The two important directories are bin and include. Copy the contents of bin to somewhere in your path, and copy the include folder to... well, just about anywhere... as long as you remember where it is. The meager instructions suggest putting it in a folder called magickit on the root of C:... so you'd have C:\magickit\include. You will need to add one environment variable; to do that, go to System Properties (on sane Windows systems, you do this by right-clicking on My Computer and going to Properties... but I don't know if that's changed for recent, retarded Windows versions). On the Advanced tab, there's a button at the bottom called "Environment Variables". There are two types: User and System. You can add the information to either section. Just click New and a dialog pops up. For Variable name, enter PCE_INCLUDE. For Variable value, enter c:\magickit\include or whatever folder you put it in. Oh, and while you're here, you can check the value of PATH if you need to... make sure the contents of bin are copied to somewhere in the path, not the folder itself. C:\WINDOWS (or wherever your Windows installation is) is always in the path, you could just put the files there. For your reference, you will really only need huc.exe, pceas.exe, and isollink.exe... you can skip nesasm.exe and pcxtool.exe
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You are adding the stuff to your path variable so that you can run them from ANY directory on the commandline.
so you can be at G:\touch\yourself\every\night\ and still be like
huc fapfapfap.c
Even though you have HuC installed at C:\HuC, for example.
and the PCE_INCLUDE is just a system variable that is used so Huc knows where the hell all of its files are sitting.
You dont HAVE to have them, but it will make your life infinity times easier.
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Ok, that's grand, thanks both :)
And Arkhan, you make me laugh :D
I'm seriously considering buying a new laptop/netbook so I can do some coding on the bus/pub/lunch/park/while the TV is on. I was thinking about it a while ago, but I haven't had my own laptop since about 3 years ago when my little vaio died.
I know an atom CPU will be enough for HuC, though I have my doubts about media centre, or XNA if I get there.
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isn't it true, that you can just take your (ex: hello.c) file and drop it on top of the the huc.exe program to compile regardless of if you set up the environment variables?
What if you did the drag and drop method and still only get a hello.s file with no hello.pce file to be found?
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isn't it true, that you can just take your (ex: hello.c) file and drop it on top of the the huc.exe program to compile regardless of if you set up the environment variables?
What if you did the drag and drop method and still only get a hello.s file with no hello.pce file to be found?
this is ill advised.
It can't find the pce assembler (pceas.exe), and that is why you do not get a PCE.
it goes huc-->makes a .s---->goes into assembler---->puts out a PCE rom.
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If you drag n drop the hello.c and get hello.s but no hello.pce, then you could just drag n drop hello.s onto pceas.exe and get hello.pce. :) It's just rather silly to go through all of that when you can just do "huc hello.c" on the command line.
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where I was running into problems was actually an error in my code. (imagine that).
On a side note, my boss said it might be benificial for me to run through some C tutorials between projects in my down time, so I'm planning on messing around with huc for today and tomorrow for the most part.
That's right, I'm actually getting paid to pretend develop for PC Engine. ;)
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That's right, I'm actually getting paid to pretend develop for PC Engine. ;)
Nice!
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Living the dream :D
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ok, so I got my new laptop, and Ithink I've installed HuC correctly. before I was thinking it was some kind of package, like devpac, but I'm guessing I should use notepad and drop my code in after. I'm gonna be coding on the bus :3
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Notepad++ or GTFO!
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Notepad++ or GTFO!
I think I will actually. I do like the original notepad though - one of the best Windows applications ever!
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I use CrimsonEditor. It hasn't been updated in a long time, but who cares? It recognizes code syntax and helps format it all nice-like, too.
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that's because Notepad++ is basically the same thing but better..
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I don't need better. I just need enough. I'm set. If CE starts to piss me off, Notepad++ is my next stop.
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I don't need better. I just need enough. I'm set. If CE starts to piss me off, Notepad++ is my next stop.
yep. I just stick to N++ since it updates regularly and has some plugins I like, like the hex-viewer.
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I don't know how I got by before I found out about Notepad++. It's awesome. :)
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Part of the problem is that the zipped file of the HuC stuff subdivides all the files into different directories, but HuC seems to want everything lumped together in the same directory. So am I just supposed to work with one monolithic directory that has everything on the same level? And if so, why did the zip file put everything in directories?
NM, I'm apparently supposed to path this shit, which is annoying because my path is already pretty large, but oh well.
Spenoza, did the path thing work? I'm getting the same result, despite having pathed the include folder. Maybe I've done it wrong and need to re-check (which I will do later). It's very annoying that I don't have a backslash on my tiny keyboard. I need to use the onscreen one.
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I'm getting the same result, despite having pathed the include folder. Maybe I've done it wrong and need to re-check (which I will do later).
the PATH environment variable should point to bin directory; PCE_INCLUDE environment variable should point to the include directory (something like C:\HuC\include\pce depending on where you installed)
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I'm getting the same result, despite having pathed the include folder. Maybe I've done it wrong and need to re-check (which I will do later).
the PATH environment variable should point to bin directory; PCE_INCLUDE environment variable should point to the include directory (something like C:\HuC\include\pce depending on where you installed)
Ah, so I have to do it with the BIN directory too? That makes sense as it didn't know what huc was, I had to drag and drop. I put them all in the same place, c:\program files\Huc_win_3.21\Include (or whatever)
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The bin directory can be added to your PATH, or you can simply copy the executables into your path somewhere.
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You can use this .bat
cls
@echo off
SET EXTENSION=%~x1
SET NAME=%1
SET CHEMIN=%~dp0
SET PCE_INCLUDE=%CHEMIN%include\pce
If "%EXTENSION%"==".c" goto Compilc
If "%EXTENSION%"==".C" goto Compilc
:Compilasm
bin\pceas.exe %1
goto Fin
:Compilc
bin\huc.exe %1
bin\pceas.exe %NAME:~0,-2%.s
:Fin
it automaticaly fix the environment variables of your current project.
It should be only named compil.bat (for exemple),and copied,executed, in your project folder .
it works like that:
In a dos window(and in your project folder) : compil.bat your_project.c
The output will be: your_project.pce
No need to specify any environment variables.
You can use multiple projects, you just have to copy compil.bat in all your project folder, and execute it in each specific folder .
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Nice! I'm gonna do some stuff on Saturday when I have time to sort out some stuff on the laptop. But that batch file looks pretty sweet ^__^
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:wink:
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I haven't used the .bat yet, but the PCE_INCLUDE path is completely eluding me. I put all the other Bin stuff in the right place and can call it from anywhere. But then it says it can't find huc.r (or something), so it's obviously not finding the include directory.
I started it in Program Files and after trying every conceivable combination (speech marks around the whole thing and around program files, backslash on the end, pce on the end, etc etc) I made C:\magikit, and the variable currently looks like this:
PCE_INCLUDE
c:\magikit\include
I copypasta'd the include folder into magikit, and it still doesn't find it. I have no idea what's going on. Surely it doesn't require a reboot?
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in your project folder you must have the folders :
bin
include
magikit ???
i think it's huc.exe, it must be in bin folder with pceas.exe file .
If you make all step by hand, you must write :
bin\huc.exe my_file.c
bin\pceas.exe my_file.s
And of course, your PCE_INCLUDE path must be correct ..
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And of course, your PCE_INCLUDE path must be correct ..
That's it, that's the bit that isn't working. I can't figure it out!
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you can use this ..
https://rapidshare.com/files/1654205591/project.zip
unzip it.
it creates a folder named project .
All that you need are incuded .
Put your .c file in this folder, and run compil.bat file.c
A test file was included .
on a dos window, write :
compil.bat test.c
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Ok, I can try it, but I'll have to wait till I can get home (no WiFi at work for my netbook). Thanks Touko
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if you have any problems with it , i 'am here ;-)
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Thanks Touko - I fixed it with another look at the tutorial.
it wanted C:\magikit\include\pce, and suggested doing it from the command line - which worked. Until I closed the window.
In the end, the same line input as Old Rover suggested, and then a reboot, did work. So, hello world compiled, and ready to test when I get an emulator!
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ok ;-) .