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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion => Topic started by: mamejay on June 08, 2012, 02:01:16 AM
Title: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: mamejay on June 08, 2012, 02:01:16 AM
OK. I decided to give this whole biso a go. I opted for the easy single bottle of creme peroxide solution.
I used a black light I have had for ages. Not sure if it is actually UV light but decided to give it a go I created my retrobright chamber of light (cardboard box and al foil) and got cracking.
Before I started (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png) First treatment picture again (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png) Here is after the second treatment (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png) Third Treatment. not sure if the pictures show much difference but it has gotten rid of some very minor blemishes now (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png) (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Necromancer on June 08, 2012, 02:52:24 AM
That's a heck of an improvement! It ain't perfectly white and clean, but it's waaaay better now than that nasty looking used cigarette filter in the 'before' pic.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: PunkicCyborg on June 08, 2012, 02:55:06 AM
Wow that's an awesome improvement! I've been wanting to do this to my yellowing PCE in my IFU as well.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: city41 on June 08, 2012, 03:02:32 AM
Looks like from pics they both accomplish about the same results.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: mamejay on June 08, 2012, 03:19:03 AM
I think it is. That console in the link was no way near as bad as my console. I am going to try out the proper retrobright where you mix peroxide and a few other things and see how it goes
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: roflmao on June 08, 2012, 03:46:44 AM
Wow, looks great! Did you just slather that stuff on with a paint brush? How long was each session under the black lights? What is the brand name for that stuff (I'm wondering if I can order it off Amazon or something)?
EDIT: Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions. :D
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: fraggore on June 08, 2012, 05:19:05 AM
wow that's made a world of diffidence.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: turbokon on June 08, 2012, 06:14:13 AM
Looks good. I need to do this on a couple of my consoles. So you just use a bottle of creme peroxide solution? No mixing needed?
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 08, 2012, 06:37:13 AM
"Is RetroBright better than bleaching?"
Its the same thing. Retrobright is just the overly engineered version with a bunch of nonsense additives that do nothing.
You'd have gotten better results with a better UV light. Go get one designed for tropical lizards at a pet store. You've likely got that bulb up so far it's barely delivering the waves to the plastic.
The effective range is like 12".
You should have just bought clear peroxide developer. The liquid. not the cream.
Take the PCE, stick it in a small clear container, fill the container with the liquid... stick it in real sunlight.
You'll have it back to new status in like 2 hours or less.
The PCE is so small you won't need a large container. As a result you will need less liquid.
I used to bleach C64s in marathon sessions during the summer. I know what I am talking about.
I swear I've posted this on this forum at least 3 times now.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Necromancer on June 08, 2012, 06:46:53 AM
Does anyone know if retro bright works on a yellowed pc engine CD drive?
Yeah, it does. They don't end up the same color though, and I'm not sure they were in the first place. They certainly aren't the same texture.
My PCE set-up has re-yellowed considerbly since I made my thread about it here a few years ago. This is very sad. Because of this I'm going to eventually paint mine. I just need to learn how to make a new logo via screen print, photo etch mask, something like that. Then it will stay white forever. Give me three of four years and I'll make a thread about it.
As for the straight bleach versus Retobrite argument; they do the same thing but I'm pretty sure that bleach is a LOT harder on the plastic.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Necromancer on June 08, 2012, 08:46:34 AM
I just need to learn how to make a new logo via screen print, photo etch mask, something like that.
Has anyone here ever done this with printable water transfer paper? I've done similar transfers with plain paper and solvents, but those were only good for things where print quality and durability weren't an issue.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: SignOfZeta on June 08, 2012, 09:11:30 AM
I just need to learn how to make a new logo via screen print, photo etch mask, something like that.
Has anyone here ever done this with printable water transfer paper? I've done similar transfers with plain paper and solvents, but those were only good for things where print quality and durability weren't an issue.
I don't see this as something that would be tough enough or even opaque enough. The idea is to make something that is as good as the original, except better, because the paint won't yellow.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: mamejay on June 08, 2012, 03:45:00 PM
Its the same thing. Retrobright is just the overly engineered version with a bunch of nonsense additives that do nothing.
You'd have gotten better results with a better UV light. Go get one designed for tropical lizards at a pet store. You've likely got that bulb up so far it's barely delivering the waves to the plastic.
The effective range is like 12".
You should have just bought clear peroxide developer. The liquid. not the cream.
Take the PCE, stick it in a small clear container, fill the container with the liquid... stick it in real sunlight.
You'll have it back to new status in like 2 hours or less.
The PCE is so small you won't need a large container. As a result you will need less liquid.
I used to bleach C64s in marathon sessions during the summer. I know what I am talking about.
I swear I've posted this on this forum at least 3 times now.
What a happy boy you are. Thanks for the advice. Maybe you need to work on your delivery. I have been warned in the past about using bleach. It works on some things but not everything. As for the light it is no more than 12" above the plastics. Also it is winter here in Australia and not much sun to go around. You make it hard for people to take you seriously when you rant like that. No wonder you have posted about your method 3 times and no one has taken any notice
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: HercTNT on June 08, 2012, 04:07:32 PM
Easy mamejay, Arkhan maybe be strongly opinionated, but hes a good guy. He was not personally attacking you either so try not to make it personal. Nice work on the retrobright. Its the bromide in the plastic, a fire retardant, that makes it yellow. Supposedly eventually the amount of bromide in the plastic will get used up and stop yellowing. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: 420GOAT on June 08, 2012, 04:09:20 PM
cool improvement bro!
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: mamejay on June 08, 2012, 09:25:01 PM
Easy mamejay, Arkhan maybe be strongly opinionated, but hes a good guy. He was not personally attacking you either so try not to make it personal. Nice work on the retrobright. Its the bromide in the plastic, a fire retardant, that makes it yellow. Supposedly eventually the amount of bromide in the plastic will get used up and stop yellowing. Keep it up.
Fair enough.
@ Arkhan You method is the first I have heard of it. I will give it a try but its just strange that no where on the web do they talk about using just straight bleach and sunlight. I thought the retro guys wouldbe all over this. Anyway I will suck it and see
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: grimm on June 08, 2012, 10:59:53 PM
Dont suck straight bleach, you will die!
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 09, 2012, 07:28:06 PM
Easy mamejay, Arkhan maybe be strongly opinionated, but hes a good guy. He was not personally attacking you either so try not to make it personal. Nice work on the retrobright. Its the bromide in the plastic, a fire retardant, that makes it yellow. Supposedly eventually the amount of bromide in the plastic will get used up and stop yellowing. Keep it up.
Fair enough.
@ Arkhan You method is the first I have heard of it. I will give it a try but its just strange that no where on the web do they talk about using just straight bleach and sunlight. I thought the retro guys wouldbe all over this. Anyway I will suck it and see
Uh, I did NOT say to use bleach. I hope you haven't tried it already.
I said use clear peroxide developer. It's peroxide. I said this in my post that you quoted to gripe about. If you investigate the ingredients in retrobright, you will see you are basically playing bathroom chemist. You add a bunch of junk to the peroxide to make it a paste. Xanth gum and glycerine don't do anything else really. The result of this paste is that you often get uneven/inconsistent results. You will not get this if you fully submerge the plastic in clear peroxide solution. I suggest 40 volume clear developer. You can get it at basically any beauty supply store.
I've covered this a few times here. It's also been covered on Amiga and C64 forums. If people don't want to listen for whatever reason, that's not my problem. I'm not the one with yellow or unevenly de-yellowed hardware. ;)
A friend has gone as far as to put a C128D in a plastic bag full of peroxide, vacuum sealed (with a shopvac), and left out in the sun. It works. You don't have to mix a bunch of stupid crap together either.
Also, the oxyclean anyone may suggest you add to the process is another waste of time/effort/money.
Anyway, the method works. If you don't really believe it, keep in mind: Girls have been combing peroxide through their hair and going out in the sun to achieve highlights for like, 50+ years now.
That, and all of the crap some of us C= people have bleached over the years is proof it works.
The ingredients needed in a successful de yellowing of plastic are:
Strong peroxide Sunlight
That's it. Sunlight = UV rays. If you have no sun because it's winter, go buy a tropical lizard UVB bulb. They're the same thing. A 5.0 UVB bulb will do the trick. Stick it in a reflective dome to increase the output of the bulb.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: fraggore on June 09, 2012, 10:20:22 PM
most of the time the simple solutions are the best might give that a try on my yellow dreamcast.
bleach is not good for plastic makes it go brittle.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: mamejay on June 10, 2012, 12:45:39 AM
Sorry. I did make a typo and would not use bleach. I think I got thrown with an earlier post using bleach to clean.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: HercTNT on June 10, 2012, 02:39:38 AM
yea, drinking bleach might kill ya, but drinking windex will keep you from streaking :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: roflmao on June 10, 2012, 08:32:43 AM
Reminds of a song by the Dead Milkmen: :D
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Keith Courage on June 10, 2012, 10:51:10 AM
I've used bleach on quite a few PC engine cases with no issues at all. If it does make it brittle I haven't seen any sign of it.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Bernie on June 10, 2012, 10:58:02 AM
I say try methane... :)
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 10, 2012, 01:26:06 PM
Has anyone tried this on darker/black plastic? I'd love to see some before/after's of colors other than white if they exist.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: HercTNT on June 10, 2012, 05:35:07 PM
I can't say I have ever seen any plastic other than white or cream colored that would need it. plastic polish would bring back any lost luster in dark plastics. A magic eraser will remove any scuffs.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: SignOfZeta on June 10, 2012, 05:41:18 PM
Virtually any color plastic will benefit. Almost nothing was made pure white in the early 80s, most old computers were some kind of beige or grey and they yellow just as bad as anything. Then there is the SNES and SFC, of course, which aren't really white. The SFC is grey and the SNES is a grey/purple. I've seen C64s that were turned a GROSS dark brown over time. RetrOBright works on all of them.
The real problem though, like I said, is that the process just ends up reversing itself after a year or so making the whole pain in the ass process useless.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: HercTNT on June 10, 2012, 08:28:55 PM
Good point, i forgot about the snes and nes type colors. those are not what i would call dark colors though.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 11, 2012, 02:59:58 AM
The real problem though, like I said, is that the process just ends up reversing itself after a year or so making the whole pain in the ass process useless.
Citation needed.
I have a 1571 I deyellowed back in 2008 thats still white.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: turbokon on June 11, 2012, 06:06:56 AM
Reminds of a song by the Dead Milkmen: Bleach Boys (http://youtu.be/bCOMSlPZz4c) :D
I read somewhere that bleach altered the molecular structure of plastic making it prone to brittle over time.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: HercTNT on June 11, 2012, 03:10:55 PM
I have read the same thing, however i have used spray cleaner with bleach on many plastics and never had a problem. I realize that not the same as immersing plastic in bleach for prolonged periods of time.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: soop on June 12, 2012, 03:02:39 AM
Remember, it's not "bleach", it's specifically hydrogen peroxide, like you put on your hair. If you used household bleach, it would probably be chlorine based, and would be different.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Necromancer on June 12, 2012, 03:16:18 AM
Remember, it's not "bleach", it's specifically hydrogen peroxide, like you put on your hair. If you used household bleach, it would probably be chlorine based, and would be different.
Those guys are specifically talking about bleach (sodium hypochlorite) and its possible detrimental effects on plastics, as opposed to using peroxide. Try some hooked on phonics or something.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 13, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Is it possible to use food grade hydrogen peroxide for retr0bright? I can't find anything less than $70 for 35% unless it's food grade but not sure if it has the same properties.
Is it possible to use food grade hydrogen peroxide for retr0bright? I can't find anything less than $70 for 35% unless it's food grade but not sure if it has the same properties.
People EAT that?! well, it cures cancer apparantly so why not O___O
But I think 40% is recommended, so 35% can't be far off.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 14, 2012, 08:02:11 AM
So then food grade hydrogen peroxide does indeed work just as well?
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 15, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
The recommended volume is about 12% (40 volume developer is ~12% peroxide)
so, if you get 35% grade, dilute it with water. 1:1. You'll get more bang for your buck. If you find this stuff called Urine Rescue, it's high-volume peroxide. You can do 50/50 water/peroxide with this too to get nice results.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 16, 2012, 07:02:55 AM
Ya I understand that....my question is, is food grade going to have the same effect as regular peroxide?
Everyone seems to answer everything but this haha.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 16, 2012, 09:34:04 AM
Ya I understand that....my question is, is food grade going to have the same effect as regular peroxide?
Everyone seems to answer everything but this haha.
How much % peroxide is food grade peroxide?
Peroxide is peroxide. If its peroxide of 10+%, it will do what you want.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: turbokon on June 16, 2012, 09:36:35 AM
I couldn't find a 40 volume developer, I only found a 20 volume. It was on sale for $5 for a gallon. Gonna give it a try. How long should I immerse in sunlight for?
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 16, 2012, 09:45:37 AM
I couldn't find a 40 volume developer, I only found a 20 volume. It was on sale for $5 for a gallon. Gonna give it a try. How long should I immerse in sunlight for?
Where did you find it for $5 a gallon?! I got so many things I wanna use this on.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: turbokon on June 16, 2012, 10:05:17 AM
I got it from Sally's Beauty Supplies.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: SignOfZeta on June 16, 2012, 10:14:27 AM
Yeah, instead of ordering some bizzare shit from in the internet just buy some from a place like Sally's or wherever. Unless you live in a town that is so f*cking remote that there are NO places to get your hair styled then I'm going to assume there is someplace where you can get the stuff locally.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 16, 2012, 10:39:36 AM
Just picked up some Volume 40 at Sally's, 32 Oz. for $5. They had volume 50 but was only as a creme. I'll see how this goes tomorrow. Thanks.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 16, 2012, 04:35:05 PM
Sally carries 40. They also carry 50, but you need a beautician license to purchase it because it's powerful enough to kill a bitch.
The Food Grade peroxide is probably fine. Peroxide is edible, AFAIK, in small doses, lol. It's in teeth whitening toothpaste and shit,so it can at least go in your mouth for a little.
I don't recommend trying it though.
the 20 vol. is weaksauce. You may have to leave it out longer. If you're leaving it out in the sunlight, a few hours should do it.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 16, 2012, 06:10:44 PM
Here are my results using 20 volume clear peroxide develop for about three hours setting outside in the sun, one session.
Before (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png) After (http://pic.photobucket.com/bwe.png)
I'm quite impress with the results. Thanks Arkhan:)
Did you only leave it in developer or did you make retr0brite with the Xanthan gum, oxyclean and glycerin?
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: turbokon on June 17, 2012, 11:27:50 AM
Just did the cd-rom2 too.
Bernie, I got a gallon of it from Sally's for $5.
Dragonmaster, all I did was let it soaked in the clear peroxide developer, rinse it with soap and water, let it dry and wiped with armorall protectant wipes. Easy right:)
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
All I can say is
"I told you so"
=3
I'm surprised the 20 volume worked so good. It didn't do much of anything on my piss-yellow Commodore plastics until I kicked it up to at least 30. 40 has been the best.
It all costs the same!
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 17, 2012, 06:15:27 PM
Ya thanks for the advice guys, just did my NES dog bone controllers which only had some slight discoloration and volume 40 worked great! They look brand new now. I didn't bother with before and afters because it wasn't extremely discolored.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: DragonmasterDan on June 18, 2012, 08:53:40 AM
Dragonmaster, all I did was let it soaked in the clear peroxide developer, rinse it with soap and water, let it dry and wiped with armorall protectant wipes. Easy right:)
I am going to give this a try once I get home.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 18, 2012, 09:22:44 AM
I used to just pull the shit out, hose it off, and bring it in the house and put it back together, lol.
Now see, if you'd done retrobrite, you'd be sitting screwing around with goop and pastes and painting it on and wasting time and effort.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 18, 2012, 02:18:14 PM
Ya thats what I did, threw it on the concrete and sprayed it with the hose.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: blueraven on June 18, 2012, 07:51:32 PM
Ugly, huh? I haven't the slightest idea how to disassemble this cartridge (no screws :/ ) and if I did, I wouldn't know how to do the whole "retrobrite" thing without harming the labels. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 19, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
The screws are under the label, duder.
Get the cream kind of developer, rather than the liquid.
smear it on the yellowy parts, lay it in the driveway.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: VenomMacbeth on June 19, 2012, 09:13:01 AM
Get the cream kind of developer, rather than the liquid.
smear it on the yellowy parts, lay it in the driveway.
YES. please click my previous link for the instructions on how to make it ConHuevos. I think there is also like a page and a half of follow-up on being a bathroom chemist.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Frank_fjs on June 19, 2012, 02:30:29 PM
The screws aren't under the label, Famicom carts don't have any screws. They are sealed shut via clips inside the cart and are a pain in the arse to open.
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: Arkhan on June 20, 2012, 04:06:58 AM
The screws aren't under the label, Famicom carts don't have any screws. They are sealed shut via clips inside the cart and are a pain in the arse to open.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgCiAOmgeFc
I've had screws under 1 or 2 pir8 famicom carts.
you can poke around the label and feel for the soft spot and poke a screwdriver through it and get it open.
If there's no screw, you can usually just cram a butter knife up in there and pop it open. Like my MSX carts I pry open. (but those have screws also)
Title: Re: Retr0Bright a PCEngine - See the results
Post by: ConHuevos on June 20, 2012, 02:21:15 PM
Just did one of my SNES's...but I forgot the little flap where the carts get inserted...but it makes for a great comparison of what it used to look like! I never even noticed it was that bad until the other areas were clean and I could see what it looked like before I cleaned it.
I used oxy clean, xanthum gum and developer volume 40.