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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Damon Plus on June 30, 2012, 04:15:53 AM
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Reading as everyone said Keith Courage was a pretty bad game, I probably felt influenced by it. I played through maybe a couple stages and thought it was a pretty average game.
But today, I've given it a fair chance and the game is not that bad. I find strangely addicting killing the never-ending swarms of enemies to collect gold and get new weapons. Cheap hits in the mecha stages still bother me, but the game is not as bad as I thought it was at first. Or maybe I have a high tolerance to bad games, what do you think?
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I never said it was a bad game.
I'm glad you're having fun with it.
It's an awesome game.
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Yeah I found it pretty average, I think people are harsh on it because it's a pack in.
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I've played through it more times than I can remember, I quite enjoy it. I like how you go from the slower more relaxed areas to the faster paced action stages. Game never gets old.
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Reading as everyone said Keith Courage was a pretty bad game, I probably felt influenced by it. I played through maybe a couple stages and thought it was a pretty average game.
But today, I've given it a fair chance and the game is not that bad. I find strangely addicting killing the never-ending swarms of enemies to collect gold and get new weapons. Cheap hits in the mecha stages still bother me, but the game is not as bad as I thought it was at first. Or maybe I have a high tolerance to bad games, what do you think?
It's not a bad game. It doesn't have a whole lot of variety, but it's decent. It controls well enough, you have fast action sequences once you're in the mech suit. I'd say it's a decent game. People are just generally unhappy with it for being the pack-in.
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It's a great game with a few things holding it back. The game design is very fun, it just needs more variety and less cheap stage layout. I'd love to play an adventure style game using this engine and license. They could have put it out as "Clash at Demonhead II". :P
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Keith Courage is awesome, especially when compared to the other launch titles. It's also aged well and holds its own compared to the later Turbochips. It gets a bad rap because the title is dorky, the character is dorky, the overworld music is weenie, and because it's a pack-in and SMB set a pretty high standard at the time (the arrival of Sonic and SMW didn't help either).
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I love the game. I like the bright colors on the different levels. The movements and jumping are actually very controllable. I like how you can change the length of your jump by moving in the air...very accurate. Some games dont have that. Yeah it gets repetitive but I think the pack in game is supposed to be easy and get you used to the controls and capability of the system. Its a fun game to mess with the turbo switches for sword attacks (so you can stand there and get coins) also turbo jumping/skipping. Great game. I like it so much I bought the Japanese version also! Now the game is actually a challenge since I have no idea what they are saying (in text) in the huts.
Dont some of the bosses in Keith Courage look a lot like enemies in Bonk. I remember a couple that look almost exactly the same.
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Keith Courage is awesome, especially when compared to the other launch titles. It's also aged well and holds its own compared to the later Turbochips. It gets a bad rap because the title is dorky, the character is dorky, the overworld music is weenie, and because it's a pack-in and SMB set a pretty high standard at the time (the arrival of Sonic and SMW didn't help either).
I still think as a game it's better as a pack-in than Altered Beast, however Keith Courage was a silly Americanized version of a game based on an anime whereas Altered Beast was a semi-popular arcade game and had notoriety.
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It was a very effective tech demo for helping convince me (as a Genesis player) that I had to get a TG-16. The fact that it was original and not a rehash or port was very important, but the graphics and sound were exactly what I'd always want from a console.
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I've always thought Keith Courage was an alright game. I think alot of people were expecting something like Mario Bros, or an arcade port.
It would have been a good average action platformer, but it shouldn't have been the pack-in. They should have gone with Alien Crush.
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First game I played on the turbografx. I think it was good showcase of the turbo's sound, graphic and control. Definently more fun then the genesis pack-in, altered beast.
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Keith courage was an OK game, although they should have included a better game to compete with the other systems. My first impression was, "This looks a lot like Nintendo". But learned to love the entire system even more later on.
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You can count me as a Keith Courage fan. I liked the game even as a kid when I had my original TG16. It's colorful withy some catchy chiptunes and the action stages are fairly good. The glitch to beat the last boss without it moving is kinda lame, but otherwise I like to play through the game every once and a while and always enjoy it.
I think part of the stigma of the game is the bad Americanization it got.
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You can count me as a Keith Courage fan. I liked the game even as a kid when I had my original TG16. It's colorful withy some catchy chiptunes and the action stages are fairly good. The glitch to beat the last boss without it moving is kinda lame, but otherwise I like to play through the game every once and a while and always enjoy it.
I think part of the stigma of the game is the bad Americanization it got.
I think the crappy localazation gives Keith Courage its charm, the comic and the story of the game is hiliarious
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I never thought it was a "bad" game. Not great, by any means, but it plays well, looks pretty damn cool, and I love the music. There's just not a lot of depth or variety.
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You can count me as a Keith Courage fan. I liked the game even as a kid when I had my original TG16. It's colorful withy some catchy chiptunes and the action stages are fairly good. The glitch to beat the last boss without it moving is kinda lame, but otherwise I like to play through the game every once and a while and always enjoy it.
I think part of the stigma of the game is the bad Americanization it got.
I think the crappy localazation gives Keith Courage its charm, the comic and the story of the game is hiliarious
I think it gives it some charm too, but some gamers look down on localizations that Americanize Japanese games. Personally I don't care too much either way.
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Who said keith was bad? It's just funny cause it's not a great game and was the pack in.
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs7/3271870_o.gif)
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I'd argue it's a below average game. I think they made it the pack in because the graphics were exceptionally good for the time. When I got my TG16 at launch initially KC blew me away. But it got old really quick. All it really needs is some more depth and variety though.
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Its an ok game, have to turn the volume down, the music is just god awful and repetitive to the point it stays in your head 24/7.
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I like the game here. I like the music and game play. I thought it could have used a couple more stages.
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I thought it could have used a couple more stages.
And a sequel!
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And a sequel!
Yep, the ending promised a sequel.
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And a sequel!
Didn't we get one on the Super Grafx?
Yep, the ending promised a sequel.
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I don't think it's a bad game. It's not one of the best!
I always ask to myself...Why the spedd difference between human or robot?
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I agree with the sentiment of almost everyone else here, it's not bad or good. It's enjoyable when playing for the first time, but kinda gets old quickly due to no variation. It just gets grilled because it gets compared to earlier titles like Bonk, which should have been the pack in.
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Keith Courage impressed me the first time I played it back in 89'. The colors were bright and amazing compared to my friends NES games. I just wished they released a sequel like the ending promised
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I love this game. Not the greatest Turbo game, but was cool. What's this that was brought up about a sequel on the Supergrafx? I missed that if it's true . . .
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I never said it was a bad game.
I'm glad you're having fun with it.
It's an awesome mediocre at best game.
Keith Courage is a mediocre, at best, game.
Overworld is horribly monotonous/boring after the first stage and gets worse.
Underworld is actually awesome, but becomes tedious and boring after two stages due to incredibly uninspired stage design (no REAL variety) and repetitive enemies.
BUT THE GAME, ULTIMATELY, IS BLAND.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/hany_in_the_sky.png) Hany says: "Keith Courage starts off promising, quickly fizzles into tepid, flat diet root beer soda."
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(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/hany_in_the_sky.png) Hany says: "Keith Courage starts off promising, quickly fizzles into tepid, flat diet root beer soda."
This is it exactly. Keith Courage actually rocks for a couple of levels. But then you realize that you've already experienced the entire game. After about half a dozen levels or so, it's pretty easy to move on to something else.
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(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/hany_in_the_sky.png) Hany says: "Keith Courage starts off promising, quickly fizzles into tepid, flat diet root beer soda."
This is it exactly. Keith Courage actually rocks for a couple of levels. But then you realize that you've already experienced the entire game. After about half a dozen levels or so, it's pretty easy to move on to something else.
Yup. I am too lazy to find my old posts, but suffice it to say: KC had the potential to be a truly awesome game. But, at least we have this:
(http://archives.tg-16.com/preview/mr_roboto.gif)
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The graphics are really good though. And the music is so memorable for PSG music. I can hum the overworld, transformation, and underworld music without even having played it for years. It's some of my favorite PSG music, now that I think of it.
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I love the Keith Courage reference in Pat The NES Punk's "Flea Market Madness" videos.
http://thepunkeffect.com/?p=5568
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KC has some of the best sound effects of all time. 8)
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The graphics are really good though. And the music is so memorable for PSG music. I can hum the overworld, transformation, and underworld music without even having played it for years. It's some of my favorite PSG music, now that I think of it.
The music is infectious for sure. I have it stuck in my head all the time for some reason. Like, right now :-/
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KC has some of the best sound effects of all time. 8)
Yeah, I'll give you that. The Nova Suit, underworld jumping/landing & sword slashing = great SFX.
The graphics are really good though.
Yes, everything is sharp and nicely detailed. It holds up well today.
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I arrived at the fifth underworld stage. I stopped having fun when I had to repeat the stage 4-5 times, left the console on, came back from work and the damn thing had reseted itself.
This said, I've totally changed my opinion on this game. It's not a classic, but it has a strange little charm that makes it compelling to keep playing.
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some one sell me one cheap please.
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some one sell me one cheap please.
If you promise to actually play it and agree to never re-sell or trade it for personal gain, PM me your address and I'll send one your way.
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Can't beat that deal 420!! :)
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GOTTA LOVE IT! :dance:
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Let the haters hate. Keith was one of the very first titles that popped into my mind to locate once I got my new Duo recently. I loved the game, but do admit that has a lot to do with nostalgia, as it was my very first game when I got my TG16 from Children's Palace sooo many years ago. :)
Still remember seeing it running in a kiosk for the first time...
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I love this game. Not the greatest Turbo game, but was cool. What's this that was brought up about a sequel on the Supergrafx? I missed that if it's true . . .
Granzort... it's something of a spiritual successor; not a true sequel.
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KC is a good game. You almost have unlimited lives because of the coinage.
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some one sell me one cheap please.
If you promise to actually play it and agree to never re-sell or trade it for personal gain, PM me your address and I'll send one your way.
thanks again Necro! it is awsome!, i played it for a couple hours and it brought back so many memories. i remember first cracking my own system open and playing KK. thanks again man, that was cool.
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I have several loose extra copy of KC. Just pm me if anybody wants one. Will gladly sent it out for free.
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My TG16 came with Keith Courage when I picked it up in 1990. I played all the way through the game repeatedly even though I actually bought the system for Bonk's Adventure and Legendary Axe. I enjoyed it, the overworld levels reminded me of Zelda II's towns in some way, and the music really caught me. The only thing that ever disappointed me about Keith Courage was that it just didn't have those "moments" that other games have, and the levels didn't seem all that distinct from one another. Other than that, I think it is a well above average game with great presentation.
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The thing that confused me was the rainbow warping. It just made me laugh the first time i saw it.
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The thing that confused me was the rainbow warping. It just made me laugh the first time i saw it.
The rainbow is awesome. I pity the un-awesome experience you had when you first witnessed the NOVA SUIT IN ALL OF ITS GLORY.
I am not joking.
And I am not a big proponent of Keith Courage (far from it).
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/hany_in_the_sky.png) Hany sighs, "Respect Mr. Courage & Company. Always. Forever."
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Man, why is there always so much hostility for this game? The only thing that irritates me about the game is the fact that it was a poor choice for a pack in. If it hadn't been the pack in I have a feeling the game would actually have a strange cult following. Was cool.
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I have several loose extra copy of KC. Just pm me if anybody wants one. Will gladly sent it out for free.
MAJOR props to Turbokon for this! That is above and beyond the call of duty for a Turbo Fan! A major THANK YOU! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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No problem neighbor;) Just swing bye if you ever want to borrow any turbo games.
BTW my fellow turbo brothers, I have no more loose copy of Keith courage to give away, sorry.
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After exhausting some of my other games on the system, and still waiting for a bunch of new purchases to roll in, I decided I'd finally try to tackle KEITH COURAGE start to finish. I've played through the first few levels a few times over the years, but I'd always lose interest in the repetitive design and having to go from being this fast, powerful badass in the underworld stages to this slow little Dragonball Z wannabe in the overworld. Playing it this time though, I stuck with it and started to enjoy the cyclical yin and yang of the game. Harvesting coin for those swords in the overworld was a cheap and easy thrill, and then the Transformer-like super attacks underneath worked that pleasure principle over and over again.
The game is very forgiving with your life allotment, but taking too much damage is never really the issue in the game. The single-touch game overs in the spikes are a pretty big annoyance, and the enemies strategically placed right beside spike pits can be really cheap at times. While I do like the labyrinth-like levels in the underworld, their design can be incredibly frustrating at times, since so much of it is descending down levels where you can't see the floor. So many times there are just spikes placed at the bottom of a space where you'd normally expect to drop, and then boom, game over and you're back to the start of the level. Some of the labyrinths have some nice bits of misdirection and forced confusion with the path you're supposed to take, but so much of it is ruined by poor game design and cheap deaths. The variety is also lacking - almost all the labyrinths are the same and the bosses even get recycled as regular baddies (B.A.D.dies?) in the later levels.
As a console launch title against the likes of Mario or Sonic it was destined to fail, but taken on its own merits KEITH COURAGE is a fun, if repetitive, game. By the end I was addicted, slaughtering cats like nobody's business to get that Alpha Sword, and then hacking my way through the final labyrinth before I happened upon the all-too-easily-activated last boss cheat to breeze my way to the finish line. The game has my favorite kind of ending - the one valiant final graphic, and then a wicked text scroll that details how much of a wicked hero you are (nothing beats the US ending to ENDURO RACER, if any of you haven't seen that before). It was great fun, and I'm glad I stuck with it. I wish we were given that sequel promised in the credits, but alas, 'twas never meant to be. Like the end of the rainbow, it's something that was never found, but this will be a fun game to beam up every now and again. Stay courageous, Keith!
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Yup: Keith Courage had the potential to be an absolutely AWESOME game... if only there was simply more variety in stage design/graphics/enemies/enemy AI...no cheating on the bosses, etc.
REPETITION/RECYCLING really sucks away the initial, legitimate fun Keith Courage promises.
The overworld is the weakest, but could have been easily fixed with a TINY bit of creativity ( I, too, like the yin yang of over- vs. under-world).
In my FANTASY, the overworld would have echoed a more elaborate ARPG/platformer akin to Wonderboy in Monsterworld...or Faxanadu...or something. But then a password would have to be introduced and it would no longer be an "action title" and then the hybrid gameplay might turn-off a lot of folks and perhaps I am tinkering too much. Regardless of my silly fantasies, simple changes could have fixed the overworld without much extra work.
PERSONALLY, I LIKE THE MECHANICS/CONTROLS OF THE NOVA SUIT...it just feels nice (not perfect), especially with a decent sword. The jumping/landing/slashing + sound effects + controls + response...very nice.
Very few games capture a "mech" properly...I think the stages could have been designed better, to better complement/match the unique feel/abilities of the NOVA suit....
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but that feeling when you see that kick ass robot getting bigger after the rainbow beam.
i was amazed as a kid
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As a console launch title against the likes of Mario or Sonic it was destined to fail, but taken on its own merits KEITH COURAGE is a fun, if repetitive, game.
Remember, Sonic wasn't a launch game, it came out almost two years after the Genesis had been on the market. The Genesis pack-in game was originally Altered Beast.
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As a console launch title against the likes of Mario or Sonic it was destined to fail, but taken on its own merits KEITH COURAGE is a fun, if repetitive, game.
Remember, Sonic wasn't a launch game, it came out almost two years after the Genesis had been on the market. The Genesis pack-in game was originally Altered Beast.
Yes, I should have said "bundle" title, since Genesis took over once they had Sonic bundled in. Keith Courage was still on the shelf with the TG-16 up against that and Mario 3/Super Mario World. Even against Altered Beast it is kind of a goofy game.
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Yes, I should have said "bundle" title, since Genesis took over once they had Sonic bundled in. Keith Courage was still on the shelf with the TG-16 up against that and Mario 3/Super Mario World. Even against Altered Beast it is kind of a goofy game.
Yes, though at various times the TG16 package was upgraded to also include Bonk. But Keith was still hiding in the box.
Anyway, I think Keith Courage was picked because it was a low ROM size (low cost to produce) game that showed off the TG16s color palette, and sharp graphics in the mech suit sections. It obviously wasn't the best game to market with the system, but I understand why they did it. The problem was they had overproduced the stock TG16 Keith Courage bundle and were stuck just adding things to the package rather than whole new configurations like Sega did in the case of Sonic.
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Yes, I should have said "bundle" title, since Genesis took over once they had Sonic bundled in. Keith Courage was still on the shelf with the TG-16 up against that and Mario 3/Super Mario World. Even against Altered Beast it is kind of a goofy game.
Yes, though at various times the TG16 package was upgraded to also include Bonk. But Keith was still hiding in the box.
Anyway, I think Keith Courage was picked because it was a low ROM size (low cost to produce) game that showed off the TG16s color palette, and sharp graphics in the mech suit sections. It obviously wasn't the best game to market with the system, but I understand why they did it. The problem was they had overproduced the stock TG16 Keith Courage bundle and were stuck just adding things to the package rather than whole new configurations like Sega did in the case of Sonic.
Agreed.
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Supergrafx Granzort.
But yes, decent if repetitive fun!
Ehhhh, that's a sequel like Adventure Island is a sequel to Wonder Boy...
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Ehhhh, that's a sequel like Adventure Island is a sequel to Wonder Boy...
Well Adventure Island IS Wonder Boy. Hudson just chose to use different character sprites rather than the ones provided by Westone (and did for everything except their port of Monster Lair which has Wonder Boy in it).
Granzort is a totally different game that involves mech suits and is based on an anime. But it plays similarly to Keith Courage.
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Ehhhh, that's a sequel like Adventure Island is a sequel to Wonder Boy...
Well Adventure Island IS Wonder Boy. Hudson just chose to use different character sprites rather than the ones provided by Westone (and did for everything except their port of Monster Lair which has Wonder Boy in it).
Granzort is a totally different game that involves mech suits and is based on an anime. But it plays similarly to Keith Courage.
Okay let's say New Adventure Island being a sequel to Wonder boy 3
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All the hatred for Keith Courage. Sad really. it isn't that bad of a game. There are so many much worse ones out there. The only thing I bring into question from the fan perspective is why was it a pack in game. I know, they were really trying to show off the color pallet and the sprite detail and whatnot, but they could have done something a little better. In the end though, Keith Courage is a really damn fun game.
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Keith Courage is f*cking great game! I don't get what the bs talk about it being sub-par. I love this game since 1993 when I fist played it!
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Keith Courage is f*cking great game! I don't get what the bs talk about it being sub-par. I love this game since 1993 when I fist played it!
Oh, I needed to fist my game? That explains the lack of enjoyment!
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I always thought Kieth Courage was fine. Not great, certainly but whatever. As far as "worst pack-in title ever" I don't think it was even remotely as bad as Altered Beasts. Why that game gets love but Kieth Courage is railed upon will never make sense to me.
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I always thought Kieth Courage was fine. Not great, certainly but whatever. As far as "worst pack-in title ever" I don't think it was even remotely as bad as Altered Beasts. Why that game gets love but Kieth Courage is railed upon will never make sense to me.
I don't think that Keith Courage was ever the issue. It was an acceptable pack-in for an early system.
The problem was more that Bonk wasn't ready for launch and that NEC should have waited and used it as the pack-in or produced only a limited number of units with Keith. Instead NEC Home Electronics manufactured way too many TG16s (with Keith Courage) prior to launch expecting it to take off and this gave them a lot less flexibility regarding packing in additional games. They eventually stuck Bonk in the box for a limited time, they had get a free game off a mail in voucher with the purchase of a system deals, but those added additional time and expense.
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I always thought Kieth Courage was fine. Not great, certainly but whatever. As far as "worst pack-in title ever" I don't think it was even remotely as bad as Altered Beasts. Why that game gets love but Kieth Courage is railed upon will never make sense to me.
I don't think that Keith Courage was ever the issue. It was an acceptable pack-in for an early system.
The problem was more that Bonk wasn't ready for launch and that NEC should have waited and used it as the pack-in or produced only a limited number of units with Keith. Instead NEC Home Electronics manufactured way too many TG16s (with Keith Courage) prior to launch expecting it to take off and this gave them a lot less flexibility regarding packing in additional games. They eventually stuck Bonk in the box for a limited time, they had get a free game off a mail in voucher with the purchase of a system deals, but those added additional time and expense.
I forgot about the mail in games promotion. I think I actually participated in that. I believe it's how I first got Ninja Spirit actually. Either that or it was a Buy two participating games and send in the UPC's to get a freebie in the mail kind of thing? I remember I was all happy to get ninja Spirit though because I used to play it at the Roundtable Pizza down the street and they had just taken the machine out when I got a chance to get it for the turbo. In my naivety, I was all like, This Is Just Like The Arcade Game! Not exactly, but damn close anyway.
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I always liked Keith Courage
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I forgot about the mail in games promotion. I think I actually participated in that. I believe it's how I first got Ninja Spirit actually. Either that or it was a Buy two participating games and send in the UPC's to get a freebie in the mail kind of thing? I remember I was all happy to get ninja Spirit though because I used to play it at the Roundtable Pizza down the street and they had just taken the machine out when I got a chance to get it for the turbo. In my naivety, I was all like, This Is Just Like The Arcade Game! Not exactly, but damn close anyway.
Yeah, I did the mail in games promotion as well. My free game was Pac-Land.
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Yeah, I did the mail in games promotion as well. My free game was Pac-Land.
I always enjoyed pac-land. it is an interesting game. although the ending always felt lack luster to me. But it was better than Deep Blue's. I literally got angry and threw a chair. 13 year old me was none to happy after 5 days of playing . . .
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Yeah, I did the mail in games promotion as well. My free game was Pac-Land.
I always enjoyed pac-land. it is an interesting game. although the ending always felt lack luster to me. But it was better than Deep Blue's. I literally got angry and threw a chair. 13 year old me was none to happy after 5 days of playing . . .
Anger much? Why you Mad, bro? LOL Seriously though, could understand the frustration on the ending of Deep Blue. On the other subject, I always felt Pac-land was underrated as well. Not the horror of a game that many people try to make it out to be. Kind of like Keith Courage....getting back on topic...LOL
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Blazing Lazers would have been a great pack-in game. Introducing many young'uns into shooting games in those days. NEC TTi etc. was just too high those days to make obvious decisions.
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Blazing Lazers would have been a great pack-in game. Introducing many young'uns into shooting games in those days. NEC TTi etc. was just too high those days to make obvious decisions.
Yes, for shootemup fans.
However, when discussed in the past, Legendary Axe might have been the game with a more "universal appeal"...
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In hindsight with the success of the Genesis and the Altered Beast pack-in, Legendary Axe definitely makes the most sense. NEC was looking at the past success of Nintendo's pack-in instead, and probably underestimated SEGA at the time considering the PC Engine was trouncing the Mega Drive back in Japan.
My problem as a kid with Keith is the game you buy is not the game you play. The box looks like some epic hack and slash with a muscular, Conan-esque warrior (like your Rastans, Rygars or Wizard and Warriors) but instead you're this slow, spikey haired dude, and then you're in a mech suit. The false advertising really just emphasized what the game WASN'T rather than what the game really was, which is a fun but eccentric little action platformer.
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Blazing Lazers would have been a great pack-in game. Introducing many young'uns into shooting games in those days. NEC TTi etc. was just too high those days to make obvious decisions.
Blazing Lazers was the UK pack-in game.
Leendary Axe would have made a better choice in terms of game quality. But I'd say it's a bit harder of a game. It's not as colorful (the TG16s biggest strength being its color palette) as Keith Courage nor does it move as fast. Again, it's a much better game to play, but as a showpiece for the system I can see why KC in Alpha Zones was picked.
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In hindsight with the success of the Genesis and the Altered Beast pack-in, Legendary Axe definitely makes the most sense. NEC was looking at the past success of Nintendo's pack-in instead, and probably underestimated SEGA at the time considering the PC Engine was trouncing the Mega Drive back in Japan.
My problem as a kid with Keith is the game you buy is not the game you play. The box looks like some epic hack and slash with a muscular, Conan-esque warrior (like your Rastans, Rygars or Wizard and Warriors) but instead you're this slow, spikey haired dude, and then you're in a mech suit. The false advertising really just emphasized what the game WASN'T rather than what the game really was, which is a fun but eccentric little action platformer.
Correct, LA is not a perfect pack-in either.
In 1989, let's say by April...I don't know if there really was an absolutely perfect, killer pack-in.
R-Type — frustrating for average player. Name recognition! A draw for shootemup fans, but also not a NEW game (it was out on SMS).
Blazing Lazers — definitely a contender. Looks great, difficulty ramps up more forgivingly than R-Type. Certainly has a FRESH, NEW shine unlike an old R-Type...
???
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Correct, LA is not a perfect pack-in either.
In 1989, let's say by April...I don't know if there really was an absolutely perfect, killer pack-in.
R-Type — frustrating for average player. Name recognition! A draw for shootemup fans, but also not a NEW game (it was out on SMS).
Despite being a much better version of the game, I completely agree. R-Type was way too difficult and frustrating to be the pack-in. Remember, the primary market for home video games in America at that time was children. Children without fully developed motor-skills so making a shooter the pack-in probably wouldn't have been the best choice. Had it been available at the time, JJ and Jeff might have also been a good pick.
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KC from the original TV adverts is what made me want a TG-16, At the time I was easily sold on the mecha suit transformation scene. I was pretty pleased overall with the underworld levels, but the overworld ones could be a drag - in particular saving up for some of the sword upgrades later on was very grindy. That's the biggest downside to me. Other than that, some cool bosses and music and overall a pleasant memory for me. It and Alien Crush were my only games when I got the system for some months (Bonk's Adventure hadn't even been released yet) so I finished it a ton of times until I got a few more games.
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Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
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Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in? I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.
I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.
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Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in? I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.
I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.
Ive always said the pack in should have been R-Type. Bonk would have been good too.
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Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
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If NEC wanted to do a mecha action game for a pack-in, a Robotech (Macross) action game would have made me beg and beg until I got a TurboGrafx-16 in 1990-91.
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... So many times there are just spikes placed at the bottom of a space where you'd normally expect to drop, and then boom, game over and you're back to the start of the level.
...
This. That's why I couldn't finish the game. It made what should've been a fast-paced action-packed romp a complete chore.
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Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.
Damn! Those were some good times!
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Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in? I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.
I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.
CW as a pack in would have kicked ass all over the place. Giant Bruce Lee walking around whooping everyones ass from Shaolin monks to giant insects. Epic. Way better than Keith, plus the kids would have been all over the Bruce Lee theme in those days or any days for that matter.
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Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.
Damn! Those were some good times!
I didn't really get the appeal of real pinball until I was much older, I was too busy obsessing over video arcade machines whenever I had the opportunity to be around pins. Some time in my early twenties I discovered Black Knight 2000 and started getting more into it then. Nowadays I play Pinball Arcade on Steam and also want to get a real one for my house one day when I can swing it. I'm more of a Williams guy, but I might go for a Stern - the difference on playing on a brand new pin vs one from the 80's-90's is night and day, even if the themes aren't as cool.
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Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in? I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.
I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.
CW as a pack in would have kicked ass all over the place. Giant Bruce Lee walking around whooping everyones ass from Shaolin monks to giant insects. Epic. Way better than Keith, plus the kids would have been all over the Bruce Lee theme in those days or any days for that matter.
I think for me, CW would have seem quite limited gameplay wise after a short amount of time. Granted it had the impressively large sprites, but it still feels a little tech-demo-y for having it be your only game. I think Dungeon Explorer would have been a pretty good pack-in though, but that's just my taste in games. I like something you can take a while to finish, explore and maybe find new things on subsequent playthroughs. Probably would have been agitating to want to play multiplayer with a sibling or friend and not have the tap, though. I can see that being a reason they might have decided not to include it, since it would just highlight that particular issue and maybe scare away new buyers, but sell it separately and rope them in for accessory sales later on instead.
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... So many times there are just spikes placed at the bottom of a space where you'd normally expect to drop, and then boom, game over and you're back to the start of the level.
...
This. That's why I couldn't finish the game. It made what should've been a fast-paced action-packed romp a complete chore.
Yeah, I remember getting frustrated at those sections also. Eventually you memorize where they are, so they aren't as big of a deal the next time you try to play through. Still, pretty cheap hiding things off the confines of the screen safe area that you just know your in-game character would have been able to see. Then again, I'm not entirely the helmet on the Nova suit swivels downwards so maybe it's an accurate model of Keith's field of vision.
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I've thought about this a lot. and assuming that production had to start most likely in the spring of 89, you only had a handful of titles to choose from to launch with from 87 and 88.
the launch titles
Shanghai - this wasn't going to catch on in the US and draw players
Bikkuriman World - Now there is an argument to be made for monsterboy in wonderland. However, it was already out and about on the mega system. so it wouldn't have been an exclusive.
The Kung Fu - others have already argued it's good and bad points.
Kato-chan Ken-chan - JJ and Jeff wouldn't have been a bad pick, but given it's regionality and the changing censoring that had to be done, and that they were targeting getting parents to buy for children, you understand why it wasn't picked.
Victory Run - A racing game against he like of sonic and mario just doesn't work.
88 Titles
Jaseiken Necromancer - too dark, too much to translate, RPG's hadn't taken off in NA either.
Yokai Dochuki - not a good enough game to consider. not bad but it wasn't exactly touted as great.
R-Type 1 and 2 - A bit too hard. and could a shooter compete with the mascots?
YouYou Jinsei - just no
Pro Yakyuu World Stadium - sports game have a limited market
Power League, Pro Tennis: World Court and Appare! Gateball- see above
Sengoku Mahjong - um no
Galaga '88 and Dragon Spirit - there are better shewties to go with than this mainly r type.
Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru - arguably the best platformer and great colors.
Alien Crush - too limited of a market
Gaia no Monshou - same problem as Necromancer
Mankyou Densetsu - Dan explained pretty well the downside. but it wouldn't have been bad
Fantasy Zone and Space Harrier - no exclusive, not a platformer
Sadakichi Sebun: Hideyoshi no Ougon - non action game [/size]
I think your actual choices then become KC, LA, (and maybe Monster Boy) really.
Given those choices I am going to say KCIAZ was probably a pretty good choice. I think the Downside was they overproduced units with this as the pack in. If they had the ability to add in Bonk's Adventure when it became available they would have had a much better advantage, as the game library grew. Hudson and NEC really needed a mascot badly, and not having one early hurt them.
All that being said. I always wonder what it would have been like if the pack in was one of the arcade ports or shooter? What if we had gotten all those great RPG's and the like.
Anyway I like KC and I wish it was just tossed aside as not being sonic or mario, it is exactly the reason to love the PCE/Turbo - Because it's different
TLDR: KC was the choice and is a good game, PCE is better because it is Different from those other companies.
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Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.
Damn! Those were some good times!
I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid I played that damn thing for a billion hours.
-
Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.
Damn! Those were some good times!
I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid I played that damn thing for a billion hours.
I'm sure I would have loved having a pinball machine available to me like that also, alas - I just didn't discover how much I liked them until I was a little older. When I was a kid they just seemed like a generation or two past their prime, and they had to compete with uprights for my money of which I was only given $1-2 at a time. In fact, I probably tried a pin at one point as a kid, lost 3 balls instantly, and dismissed them as quarter munchers. Big fan now though, freeplay would have made all the difference back then I bet. And Alien Crush definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for pinball since I could just keep trying over and over again without running out of money. (and I do appreciate the real deal vs video pinball, but video pinball has a huge spot in my heart) I plan to do my family members the favor your uncle did for you by eventually getting one for my place.
I also recently picked up Last Gladiators pinball brand new for Saturn, little disappointed the cover is a little sunbleached though. Still, I bought it to play it. I'd like to get the other KaZe pinball game for Saturn, Necronomicon, as soon as I can.
-
Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.
Damn! Those were some good times!
I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid I played that damn thing for a billion hours.
I'm sure I would have loved having a pinball machine available to me like that also, alas - I just didn't discover how much I liked them until I was a little older. When I was a kid they just seemed like a generation or two past their prime, and they had to compete with uprights for my money of which I was only given $1-2 at a time. In fact, I probably tried a pin at one point as a kid, lost 3 balls instantly, and dismissed them as quarter munchers. Big fan now though, freeplay would have made all the difference back then I bet. And Alien Crush definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for pinball since I could just keep trying over and over again without running out of money. (and I do appreciate the real deal vs video pinball, but video pinball has a huge spot in my heart) I plan to do my family members the favor your uncle did for you by eventually getting one for my place.
I also recently picked up Last Gladiators pinball brand new for Saturn, little disappointed the cover is a little sunbleached though. Still, I bought it to play it. I'd like to get the other KaZe pinball game for Saturn, Necronomicon, as soon as I can.
I was lucky, my uncle was into video games (Atari VCS) and pinball in late 70's/early-80's. I was in heaven.
My parents would never give money for arcade, so I had to use the little bit of cash I had from birthday/Xmas.
WHAT IS FUNNY, is that's living on a careful budget (which my wife and I have been doing for a LONG time now), is no different than being a kid with limited funds.
Ha!
-
Alien Crush? Is that too niche?
I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.
I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it). Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me. I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.
I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems. I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.
Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.
Damn! Those were some good times!
I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid I played that damn thing for a billion hours.
I'm sure I would have loved having a pinball machine available to me like that also, alas - I just didn't discover how much I liked them until I was a little older. When I was a kid they just seemed like a generation or two past their prime, and they had to compete with uprights for my money of which I was only given $1-2 at a time. In fact, I probably tried a pin at one point as a kid, lost 3 balls instantly, and dismissed them as quarter munchers. Big fan now though, freeplay would have made all the difference back then I bet. And Alien Crush definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for pinball since I could just keep trying over and over again without running out of money. (and I do appreciate the real deal vs video pinball, but video pinball has a huge spot in my heart) I plan to do my family members the favor your uncle did for you by eventually getting one for my place.
I also recently picked up Last Gladiators pinball brand new for Saturn, little disappointed the cover is a little sunbleached though. Still, I bought it to play it. I'd like to get the other KaZe pinball game for Saturn, Necronomicon, as soon as I can.
I was lucky, my uncle was into video games (Atari VCS) and pinball in late 70's/early-80's. I was in heaven.
My parents would never give money for arcade, so I had to use the little bit of cash I had from birthday/Xmas.
WHAT IS FUNNY, is that's living on a careful budget (which my wife and I have been doing for a LONG time now), is no different than being a kid with limited funds.
Ha!
Sounds pretty sweet! My sister who is 8 years older than me passed on her ColecoVision with expansion module #1 (to play Atari 2600 carts) so that was my first console along with my C64. In fact, I didn't get anything else until the TG-16 (I did get some games for the C64 like Pool of Radiance in the interim), didn't get a NES or anything (but I was able to play it at friend's houses).
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^ Pool of Radiance was damn fun.
I have never played any 2600 games on Coleco Vision! I gotta do that, just for the novelty.