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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: Nando on July 09, 2012, 04:44:54 AM
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So last week DragonmasterDAN was gracious enough to school me on the Saturns RAM cart issues. If ya don't know here's a great link from da man him self http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?203919-Saturn-4MB-RAM-cart-problem
One potential solution was "removing the cartridge slot, and then permanently soldering in an action replay"
Any of you with Saturns thought about or have done this? The soldering job looks like it would be a PAIN IN THE ASS! at least to someone like me with NO, ZERO, NADA, experience with soldering. But it does seem like such a "waste" to not be able to play some games 'cause of this design issue.
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Yeah....that cartridge slot is bad.
Usually I just leave my memory cartridge in there and it always seems to work fine. (Seriously, best memory card ever?) But one day I wanted to play my newly acquired copy of Nöel 3 with the 4M RAM and whoopie-do PROBLEMS started happening. Since the game doesn't require a ram cart to run (it will just improve things, the game says) I still don't know if I actually got it to work or not. In the beginning I experienced weird graphics glitches and lock ups. I tried reseating the cartridge a few times and in the end I could play the game normally. I left the card in during the time I played the game, but I have honestly no idea if it worked or not. I would need like, another game that requires extra RAM just to check if it's seated correctly first :lol:
I may love my Saturn but that port is not getting any love from me. If you know what I mean. And I think you know what I mean.
Probably wouldn't solder anything permanently in there tho'.
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I installed a switch-based region mod and have resigned myself to never removing the memory cartridge from the console. That means I'll never play the games that use the 1M or 4M carts, but that's okay. I can play other versions of Capcom 4M games, and I have a consolized Neo Geo MVS, so I'll never need to play the Saturn ports. Even if I didn't have a CMVS, I would probably still use other ports and emulation to play Neo Geo games.
My Saturn was bought new at K-Mart in August 1999, and the cart port always gave me issues. I had serious problems with losing data on the memory cartridge from day one. Eventually, I got it positioned just right, and I haven't lost a save in years. It was some sort of combination of pushing the cart all the way in, pulling one end up slightly, pushing it back down, etc. When I need to replace the console's battery, I leave the cart in there.
I've heard that the US console got the short end of the stick. It has something like tin-plated contacts. The Japanese version has some sort of higher quality contacts. Maybe gold-plated.
If things get bad enough with my console, I'll seriously consider soldering my cartridge into it.
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My Saturn was bought new at K-Mart in August 1999, and the cart port always gave me issues.
Wow, I didn't know you could still get them new in 1999. :shock: I picked up a used one in '97 and don't remember seeing them new back then. But my memory is probably fuzzy. :)
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I've heard that the US console got the short end of the stick. It has something like tin-plated contacts. The Japanese version has some sort of higher quality contacts. Maybe gold-plated.
Ugh...again with ridiculous rumors. All of these systems are made in the same factory. The only difference between them are jumpers and the colors of the case.
As for permamodding the Saturn...I put some thought into this and I've decided that, short of a very high quality IC based switching system that allows you to locate the chips on the cart inside the unit and sill allowed the cart slow to be used, I'm just not interested. I don't have much use for the 1MB or Netlink anymore, but I do use both the 4MB and power memory carts on occasion so I'm not interested in locking out one or the other. If I were to install one permanently though, it would be the 4MB. I have zero interest in the PAR and it would be a shame to see that tacky piece of no-name 3rd part junk permenently stuck in the slot like some sort of...Metallica back tattoo...on a dude. I suppose it would be OK if you had a "burner" US system or three since those are (or at least, were) so cheap they are virtually free. There is no way I'd do this to a Japanese system though.
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I use a PAR in a grey Japsaturn9000
It looks ugly as shit. I thought about just ripping the board out and shoving that in. It'd look better than that retarded cartridge color/label.
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I use a PAR in a grey Japsaturn9000
It looks ugly as shit. I thought about just ripping the board out and shoving that in. It'd look better than that retarded cartridge color/label.
Remove the label, sand and paint the cart with acrylic pain,clear coat, then make a new label.
As far as the carts not working, the pins could always be extended out some using a small flat head, and also, open the cart and sand and clean the pins. Either way, I never had much of a problem with the stuff, but whatever.
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Remove the label, sand and paint the cart with acrylic pain,clear coat, then make a new label.
I thought about doing that, but really, what I'd like is a clear shell to match the clear Saturn controller I have.
If I ever did paint it, I'd bash my face against a wall trying to decide which color to paint it to best match the Saturn. I've got that gray one with blue buttons and multiple different shades going on.
So I'd have to pick between the base gray, black, blue, light blue...
too many options. They'd all look cool.
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Slap-a-shell option for me would be:
(http://www.segagagadomain.com/store/sat-hard/4mb.jpg)
or the low-tech solution
(http://www.retro-otaku.com/wp-content/gallery/gaming-sessions-22-november-2009/22112009.jpg)
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The pins in the cart slot are very very light guage and wimpy. IRC they are round and not flat, difficult to access as well. It would be hard to reconstitute them without destroying them.
As for making the PAR prettier: you could stick it in an OEM shell, couldn't you? There are grey, smokey clear, black, white, and whatever that blue/green color is that came with the Tokomeki LE. If you have one with a parallel port on it you'd have to saw that off.
Of course, you'd still have that stupid boot screen to click through...
Which makes me wonder, it's been a while since I've owned a SS PAR, can you still access the BIOS with it installed? I think you can, but if not that would be annoying...
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I don't remember.
I used the PAR mostly to play Japanese games on my US saturn that broke
so now its just shoved into the saturn because it no longer takes up shelf space if its shoved into the saturn.
I would not mind an OEM shell, but I am also too lazy to find one.
Ill bust it out, leave it bare, and get a shell later.
like, in 5 years if I still care maybe!
Or if I see a cart shell cheap in passing.
I might even just sell the thing. Thinking now, I don't really need the f*cker.
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I don't remember.
I used the PAR mostly to play Japanese games on my US saturn that broke
so now its just shoved into the saturn because it no longer takes up shelf space if its shoved into the saturn.
I would not mind an OEM shell, but I am also too lazy to find one.
Ill bust it out, leave it bare, and get a shell later.
like, in 5 years if I still care maybe!
Or if I see a cart shell cheap in passing.
I might even just sell the thing. Thinking now, I don't really need the f*cker.
SOOOO about that Elevator Action Returns.... ;)
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I haven't had many problems with my Saturn's slot and a PAR 4MB (knock on wood). The only time I have issues is with D&D Collection where I have to put the PAR through some NES style cart positioning.
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I don't remember.
I used the PAR mostly to play Japanese games on my US saturn that broke
so now its just shoved into the saturn because it no longer takes up shelf space if its shoved into the saturn.
I would not mind an OEM shell, but I am also too lazy to find one.
Ill bust it out, leave it bare, and get a shell later.
like, in 5 years if I still care maybe!
Or if I see a cart shell cheap in passing.
I might even just sell the thing. Thinking now, I don't really need the f*cker.
SOOOO about that Elevator Action Returns.... ;)
I has a Japanese saturn.
I ain't needs no REGION H4x
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or the low-tech solution
(http://www.retro-otaku.com/wp-content/gallery/gaming-sessions-22-november-2009/22112009.jpg)
Jamming paper, pen caps etc only works for so long.
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or the low-tech solution
(http://www.retro-otaku.com/wp-content/gallery/gaming-sessions-22-november-2009/22112009.jpg)
Jamming paper, pen caps etc only works for so long.
Not to mention it looks like butt; and not those nice tanned college girl butts either.
Ark. I almost thought ya was giving up on da saturn love.
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The boards in the official Sega carts are slightly thinner than the 3rd party stuff from what I have heard. In fact if you use a 3rd party cart you pretty much immediately damage your cartridge port. The more you use them, the worse it gets. Soon your cartridge port is stretched wide like a $5 hooker so that when you stick your little penis in (official Sega cart) it's like trying to f*ck a cave. It can even make things tougher for the 3rd party carts as well.
As for getting a cart in there and leaving it there forever... no way, not an option at all! There are at least a few SNK games that will have garbled sprites when run with a 4MB cart. They need the 1MB cart. I'd also like to play King of Fighters '95 every once in awhile which stores the BGs on its very own cart. And I also have two official Sega carts full of game saves that I would like to use. I never use the Saturn's internal memory to save games unless I have to (mainly games that use expansion RAM carts). Screw transferring memory back and forth to the Saturn when you can save and load in game directly from the cart which, to my knowledge, no 3rd party memory cart can do.
PS - Never really understood why they called them "cards". It seemed to be only the idiot 3rd partys who did that, though.
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I don't buy the line about PARs being thicker and ruining then slot/vagina. My white Saturn has never had anything but official carts in it and the vagina on this thing didn't even last as long as the one in my US prostitute and that that thing had a constantly alternating flow of Netlink, PAR, 4MB, and power memory.
As far as I can tell the people who have the least amount of trouble with this issue are the PAR people who only own one cart, the PAR, which they just leave in there all the time.
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Hey I never said the Saturn's vagina was a good one! But yeah, of course the PARs will work the best since they're thicker. The black PARs might work better than the white PARs. :)
As for me, most carts work fine except the official 1MB one. That one is a BITCH to get working. The 4MB is kind of a bitch but usually works after an adjustment or two. The official memory carts work fine.
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I think the official Sega cards have a tapered edge as well, so it slides in easier and without bending the pins. In looking through the bunch of Saturn carts I have, none of the third party carts have a tapered edge to them.
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That might be what I'm thinking about. Either way the 3rd party carts are tougher on the already gimped cart slot.
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it's like trying to f*ck a cave.
...or a doorway.
...a mayonnaise jar?
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My Saturn was bought new at K-Mart in August 1999, and the cart port always gave me issues.
Wow, I didn't know you could still get them new in 1999. :shock: I picked up a used one in '97 and don't remember seeing them new back then. But my memory is probably fuzzy. :)
Yeah. I really lucked out. $50. That and a few games cleaned out all of my birthday money, but it was so worth it. I didn't even care that the Dreamcast was a few weeks away. I wanted Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter 2 at home so bad, and I was extremely happy to finally play them at home. Many games were dirt cheap at the time, too. Sealed Daytona USA CCE was about 10 bucks. VF2 was about 1 buck used. No joke. Toys R Us was clearancing out the games like mad. Worldwide Soccer (the first one) was cheap enough for me to buy in my first round of games the day I bought the system, too. I was even able to score a disc-only Guardian Heroes for about 10 bucks a few months after I got the system. That kicked butt.
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Yeah. I really lucked out. $50. That and a few games cleaned out all of my birthday money, but it was so worth it. I didn't even care that the Dreamcast was a few weeks away. I wanted Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter 2 at home so bad, and I was extremely happy to finally play them at home. Many games were dirt cheap at the time, too. Sealed Daytona USA CCE was about 10 bucks. VF2 was about 1 buck used. No joke. Toys R Us was clearancing out the games like mad. Worldwide Soccer (the first one) was cheap enough for me to buy in my first round of games the day I bought the system, too. I was even able to score a disc-only Guardian Heroes for about 10 bucks a few months after I got the system. That kicked butt.
Due to the cartridge slot suckage I went through a few Saturns even when it was still on the market, the original one I received as a Christmas Gift in 1995. By 1997 I had purchased a second used Saturn after having cart slot problems. I then purchased another Brand new Saturn in Spring 1998 (before House of the Dead, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, Shining Force 3 and Magic Knight Rayearth came out) but when the system was already being cleared out. I think it was around 70.00 at the time.
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I had a Saturn RAM cart die on me once. Lost lots of data I was planning to still use. Now I'll never finish Langrisser IV...
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I got my Saturn brand new once the model 2 came out. Shortly after I got a Game Genie, which I was using as my primary source of save storage. I never had a reason to take the thing out, and it worked perfect for me for a few years. Then in about 2005, I turned my Saturn on, and no more Game Genie screen. I was so pissed, I went to the flea market and bought another one, and still no Game Genie. I have soooo many saves on my original Game Genie, that it kills me I can't access them :(
Anyway, a few years ago I broke down and bought an official Sega Saturn memory backup. The cartridge worked like a charm the first time I put it in my original system. It has stayed in there ever since. My original Saturn is still going strong!
I also bought a second Saturn recently with a PAR, and that is what I use to play Japanese games. So far so good with that unit, and I'll never take that out either. Now if only I could extract my Robo Pit save from my original Game Genie :(
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My RAM carts still have game saves on them from rentals back when the console was current. Nowadays when I pick up a cheap used game I can continue where I left off when I rented it.
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I used to get really hung up about archiving game saves. I no longer do.
Recently I started playing Pokemon Pinball (GBC) for the first time in over ten years. I played THE SHIT out of this game when it came out. I had a very dull job, basically, and it allowed me to play Pokemon Pinball for nearly 8 hours a day. My scores were insane. My max on the Blue board was something like 6.2 billion.
Now that I'm playing it again my high scores are about 60 million. That's right, I'm litterally %1 as good at this game as I used to be.
If I still had my save for Azel or Shining Force III or Lunar...WTF good would it do me? I wouldn't hardly remember anything about the game. If I can take a ten year break I can take the extra few hours to start from the begining. If the begining is no fun, why would I play the game anyway?
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I never had a problem with getting my US sega saturn to recognize the cartridges. Maybe I just leave the cart plugged in?
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Save files are great for me when I need to show off different parts of a game for that dumb internet show.
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Save files are great for me when I need to show off different parts of a game for that dumb internet show.
Save files are great for many obvious reasons. Its just that, after years of dormancy, if I load up a save of Cosmic Fantasy or Sim Earth I'm not going to know WTF to even do when I start playing the thing. If I'm going to play Ys IV, I'm probably going to blast through it in a few days. I'm not going to play it for one day, take six months off, play it for another day, take 6 years off, and then finally finish it.
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I just use the 4-in-1 PAR and never had a need for using anything else. I play my SNK games on my Neo Geo CDZ and NGH cart system. So I never have the need for a 1MB cart for the glitchy games. Also, I am fine with the PAR back-up memory system. I am only going to use 1 RPG game save at a time anyway. Before I got a PAR, I used the Satellite region cart and that was it. No cart port problems at all and I remove the PAR once in a while.
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Does anyone remember what the glitchy SNK games are? I think they were Samshow III and maybe...KOF 96? Those are about $20 each on MVS, so...not much of an issue. Honestly, I don't place much value in the Saturn Neo games...pretty much the same thing happened as what happened with PCE. Most of the games are about the same price on MVS as they are on PCE/SS and basically better except for the arranged soundtracks on some of the games. The Samshow III AST for example is really nice.
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well my official sega ram cart decided to stop working a few years ago losing all my saves especially on those japanese RPGs....
not sure about the glitchy SNK games but I remember not liking Waku Waku 7 because of the low pixel backgrounds
That cartridge slot.. sometimes it took lots of re-inserting the cartridge before the system actually acknowledge something was there...and if you accidentally knocked the cartridge while it was still inside the system you have to repeat re-inserting the cartridge again.. had problems with official and 3rd party stuff..
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Yeah, it DOESN'T MATTER whether if it's a Japanese Saturn, US Saturn, never used with a PAR, used with a PAR, etc, etc. I've owned numerous Saturns in all possible combinations, and not a single one recognizes the carts right off the bat.
That said, I've never had one slot completely die on me either (I've had some more finicky than others, but I've always been able to get it to work sooner or later.
Does anyone remember what the glitchy SNK games are? I think they were Samshow III and maybe...KOF 96?
Right, in addition, RB:FF also glitches with the 4MB cart.
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That said, I've never had one slot completely die on me either (I've had some more finicky than others, but I've always been able to get it to work sooner or later.
I have had ones completely die on me.
As far as recognizing carts right off the bat. When I had a brand new Saturn, it did recognize carts right off the bat. But only for a little while.
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That said, I've never had one slot completely die on me either (I've had some more finicky than others, but I've always been able to get it to work sooner or later.
I have had ones completely die on me.
Are you sure you didn't just give up early? I've had to try like hell a few times with mine, booting Vampire Savour like 20 times in a row to learn its not seeing right, before it finally takes and then runs perfectly as long as you don't touch it.
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That said, I've never had one slot completely die on me either (I've had some more finicky than others, but I've always been able to get it to work sooner or later.
I have had ones completely die on me.
Are you sure you didn't just give up early? I've had to try like hell a few times with mine, booting Vampire Savour like 20 times in a row to learn its not seeing right, before it finally takes and then runs perfectly as long as you don't touch it.
I spent hours trying to get cartridges to load on some of these Saturns before breaking down, making the trip to Funcoland back in the day and buying another one. Eventually Funcoland had a system where if you bought a cleaning kit and some other crap, you got a 1 year warranty. At the time I actively used the Netlink, had a PAR I used for imports, had an official Sega memory card, an interact brand memory card. And also a game shark, ST key, and an EMS brand white backup memory card. I wore those cartridge slots out in a few months and kept swapping them. Eventually Funcoland quit buying back Saturns and I couldn't keep swapping them for ones with newer cart ports. Since then, I've still gone through a few Saturns.
So yes, I've completely worn them out to where they won't read anything, backup memory cards, RAM carts, netlink, etc. With that said, most of them will read backup memory cards if I try enough times and don't move the system.
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In that regard, I can understand cartridge slots in sega saturns wearing out. I don't play imports or games that have the ram expansion required. Just keep my memory ram backup cart in it. lol.
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I have had ones completely die on me.
Are you sure you didn't just give up early? I've had to try like hell a few times with mine, booting Vampire Savour like 20 times in a row to learn its not seeing right, before it finally takes and then runs perfectly as long as you don't touch it.
I guess I couldn't say mine 'completely' died, but it lost all my data. Cart would boot fine, but all my files were gone.
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I've had files get corrupted, requiring a reformat, but I've never lost them completely.
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Don't use PAR or Gamesharks and your fine. I have the 1mb, 4mb and memory card and all work fine since they don't stretch the pins in the cartridge slot.
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Don't use PAR or Gamesharks and your fine. I have the 1mb, 4mb and memory card and all work fine since they don't stretch the pins in the cartridge slot.
As has been said, this doesn't work. Maybe if worked for you, great, but the problem isn't the PAR. Everyone in Japan has this problem too and almost nobody there has a PAR. My white Saturn has never once seen a PAR and its just as bad, if not worse, than by US Saturn which saw every cart made back in the day.
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I think the PAR thing is a myth.
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well I can speak for Gameshark, it is physically thicker than the Sega brand memory cart. Yes there is a known issue with the cartridge slot, thick carts don't help the problem.
For PAR I honestly cant say for sure since I have never used one personally but assumed it was like the Gameshark.
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I've been using a PAR with my Saturn for 3 years solid and have never had a problem, and I don't leave it in the cart slot, I insert/remove it as required.
That said, the Saturn cart slot is definitely finicky/highly temperamental. I know of many people with dead cart slots and they're a bitch to repair/replace.
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I wonder if a new cart slot could be made / substituted
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I wonder if a new cart slot could be made / substituted
I imagine that it could, but I don't know of any that exist. The only solution I know of is to find a cheap dead Saturn (perhaps with a faulty CD drive etc) and transplant the cart slot from that (assuming it works).
There's replacement cart slots for many systems, such as the NES, Master System, Mark III, Neo Geo etc, it's strange that no-one has mass produced one for the Saturn.
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I think it is because it is just for memory cards and PAR devices, so low market potential vs a cart based system with higher base of people that would buy.
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I wish they made cartridge games on the Saturn. Is the system capable of running a game from the cart port?
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well I can speak for Gameshark, it is physically thicker than the Sega brand memory cart. Yes there is a known issue with the cartridge slot, thick carts don't help the problem.
For PAR I honestly cant say for sure since I have never used one personally but assumed it was like the Gameshark.
The Gameshark is literally a rebranded PAR. It lacks the RAM expansion stuff because that didn't come out until later versions of the PAR. The software is slightly different and some have com ports on them, but that's about it.
I think it is because it is just for memory cards and PAR devices, so low market potential vs a cart based system with higher base of people that would buy.
The Power Memory cart launched with the system. I'm pretty sure they thought %10 of users would just buy it, put it in there, and just leave it. The other stuff was obviously accommodated for in the original spec, but I don't think they seriously thought it would happen.
I wish they made cartridge games on the Saturn. Is the system capable of running a game from the cart port?
Yes, it is. The PAR boots from the cart slot, for example. Its never been done though.
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side note since we are talking about the carts, here are some boxes I made to store mine since I got mine loose:
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3949/photobim.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/photobim.jpg/)
On the back of the 1mb and 4mb ram carts, I put a list of the games that supported the cart, and some screenshots.
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That's really neat! Makes me want to do something similar...
Does the case have a place in which to fit the cart or does it just rattle around in there? :P
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Universal game box, I will check it but it does kinda hold it. Not perfectly still but doesn't fly all over the box. I will make one soon for my Neo Flash cart and maybe the Turbo Everdrive.
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This is my case:
(http://grab.by/eI3K)
It doesn't have an ESRB rating but...
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This is my case:
*picture snip*
It doesn't have an ESRB rating but...
Oh yeah, remember seeing that bad ass case in some other thread.
I hope you're wearing some slick suit & shades when you're on and about with that - cuz you're totally bringing the goods :lol:
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well I can speak for Gameshark, it is physically thicker than the Sega brand memory cart. Yes there is a known issue with the cartridge slot, thick carts don't help the problem.
For PAR I honestly cant say for sure since I have never used one personally but assumed it was like the Gameshark.
The game shark is definitely thicker. My interact brand memory card is quite a bit thicker as well. But my ST key, PARs, and EMS brand memory cards do not appear to be.
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side note since we are talking about the carts, here are some boxes I made to store mine since I got mine loose:
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3949/photobim.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/photobim.jpg/)
On the back of the 1mb and 4mb ram carts, I put a list of the games that supported the cart, and some screenshots.
Those look great. Did you create the covers yourself? Can you share the files?
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There's replacement cart slots for many systems, such as the NES, Master System, Mark III, Neo Geo etc, it's strange that no-one has mass produced one for the Saturn.
For the MVS? If so, could you please provide a link? The last time I heard, the maker of the recent Daedalus MVS to AES converter has replacement slots in the pipeline, but they aren't ready yet.
I've got a 4-slot, so I've got enough slots that it will take a long time for them to wear out, but I do want to stock up on replacements for when the day comes that I'll need to replace the slots.
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There's replacement cart slots for many systems, such as the NES, Master System, Mark III, Neo Geo etc, it's strange that no-one has mass produced one for the Saturn.
Replacing Saturns is still relatively inexpensive and the difference between the Saturn and the systems you listed above is that games are played from the cartridge slot on those systems. The Saturn cartridge slot is for expansion/peripheral use only.
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Is there a way to fix the pins in the cart slot my Action Replay work ..but not the Memory Cart