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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: VenomMacbeth on July 09, 2012, 03:23:23 PM
Title: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: VenomMacbeth on July 09, 2012, 03:23:23 PM
I believe there may have already been a topic about this, so I'm sorry if I'm making a duplicate post.
I'm redesigning my living space to accommodate all my game consoles & make everything more "feng-shui."
I know a CRT television is the best way to play old games, and as much as I like them, they're so large & bulky that I'm having difficulty finding space for one. An LCD TV would be the most space-effective solution, but I've experienced first-hand the problems with playing retro games with them. I played an Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, PS1, and an N64 on one that seemed to work okay, but there was just a slight controller input delay, which made gameplay...well...less fun.
Are there any LCD's that one can play retro games on without these problems?
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: SuperDeadite on July 09, 2012, 03:32:23 PM
If you really want to go LCD, just get a good external line-double/scaler. For a console only gamer, I'd go with the XRGB-3 (VGA) or Framemeister (HDMI) depending on what your TV accepts for inputs.
There are no consumer level LCD TVs that are good enough for retro stuff. Now arcade grade LCDs or professional monitors can work quite well, but then you often need an external PSU, and a mess of exposed wires.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: VenomMacbeth on July 09, 2012, 04:37:07 PM
If you really want to go LCD, just get a good external line-double/scaler. For a console only gamer, I'd go with the XRGB-3 (VGA) or Framemeister (HDMI) depending on what your TV accepts for inputs.
Do those accept coax input?
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Chuplayer on July 09, 2012, 04:37:30 PM
Can you elaborate on this? Perhaps some links? I don't care about the exposed wires. I'm just looking for a good alternative to an XRGB.
2nded.
A scaler is nice to have but an LCD that can the job somewhat decently seems...intriguing. :-k Not to mention, most scalers seem to cost more than some TVs. I probably paid about the same amount for mine and my Bravia 32'' - both used. Maybe there are better deals to be had, but they are still not cheap.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 09, 2012, 08:20:20 PM
At Galloping Ghost arcade they have a large number of machines that have been converted to LCD using off the shelf drop-in JAMMA compatible displays like the ones you get from places like Happ. Some looked kind of so-so, but some looked AMAZINGLY good. Their Ms. Pac Man cocktail unit for example was basically perfect. I literally ate lunch on the machine so I was staring at it for several minutes in attract mode.
Unfortunately I have no idea which manufacturer's display this was.
Before you run out and buy one of these displays you should know:
They will be RGB only
The will have no case and probably no power supply
The quality of the signal probably has a lot to do with what I saw. Some machines had rather noisy input and aside from the noise itself I think this probably reeks havoc with the digitizer making for even more noise.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Ji-L87 on July 09, 2012, 09:14:41 PM
Before you run out and buy one of these displays you should know:
They will be RGB only
The will have no case and probably no power supply
Yeah, that sounds about right, too bad tho'.
I did a google search and while I didn't find anything new worth mentioning, there are quite a few people out there asking the same question. I sure am no businessman but it seems to me there certainly is a demand here, which is to say, a gap to fill and a business opportunity in making a good LCD display suitable to retro gaming.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: grahf on July 10, 2012, 12:59:09 AM
I agree with SuperDeadite - just go with an upscaler. It's a big chunk of change to drop, but it'll ensure you can play your games on any modern display. Add a nice RGB switchbox to it, and you can have everything hooked up at once.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: SuperDeadite on July 10, 2012, 01:40:35 AM
Professional grade LCDs used in arcade cabs are very expensive. Hence the "professional" part. Japanese arcade shops charge close to $2,000 for the 20'' models. And yes they are meant for cabs, meaning no power supply, you'd have to buy that seperate and wire it all up without setting your house on fire, and it would be an ugly mess without a cab to hold it all.
For RF (coax) input there is only ONE scaler ever made. The Micomsoft DISPL TV. Be aware though it doesn't take RGB (RF, Composite, S-Video, and D-Terminal). Also there is only so much you can do with RF, it still won't look to hot. And finally it's designed for Japanese RF frequencies. Meaning any non JP system may not work at all.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Arkhan on July 10, 2012, 09:34:38 AM
Don't even use RF. What do you have that uses RF? The Atari 2600? If that's about it, you should just hook it up to a VCR and use the VCR composite output to go into the XRGB!
VCRs! f*ck YEAH.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: VenomMacbeth on July 10, 2012, 10:22:37 AM
Don't even use RF. What do you have that uses RF? The Atari 2600? If that's about it, you should just hook it up to a VCR and use the VCR composite output to go into the XRGB!
VCRs! f*ck YEAH.
My 2600, NES, SMS, Genesis, Saturn, Famicom, and PC Engine all have RF out. I'm gonna try to get AV cables for all of em but the 2600, and I'll probably have my Famicom AV modded...not sure about the PC Engine, though. Miraculously, I have a VCR. :3 I hadn't considered that option. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 10, 2012, 12:49:33 PM
You're not seriously using a Saturn with RF, are you? I mean, the RF switch was an overpriced, somewhat scarce item that didn't even come with the system. You'll get so much better results with the pack-in composite cable. Saturn composite is incredibly good.
Aside from the 2600, and maybe a few other very old and crusty things (TV Tennis, Oddessey) you can get composite AT LEAST and usually s-video. Even the Colecovision can do s-video.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Frank_fjs on July 10, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
My 2600, NES, SMS, Genesis, Saturn, Famicom, and PC Engine all have RF out.
NES has side mounted AV jacks, just need a standard set of RCA plugs to hook up via composite.
SMS, Genesis and Saturn natively output RGB with the right cable. Of course you can just grab composite cables if you don't have an RGB capable TV/encoder.
PC Engine - it's easy enough to make a home made cable to obtain composite or RGB from the expansion port. Other than that there's always the AV Booster.
2600 and Famicom would need to be modded. Re the Famicom, I really don't like the AV output of it once modded, it always looks dull with jail bars. I'd rather grab an AV Fami.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Digi.k on July 10, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
even better if your TV has a 21-pin euro scart connection
some very ollllld pics taken from my old toshiba LCD..
Re the Famicom, I really don't like the AV output of it once modded, it always looks dull with jail bars. I'd rather grab an AV Fami.
Over on FamicomWorld we've been working on removing jailbars from modded AV famis with great success, so it can be done. Mine looks pretty damn good for composite.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Frank_fjs on July 11, 2012, 02:16:08 AM
Re the Famicom, I really don't like the AV output of it once modded, it always looks dull with jail bars. I'd rather grab an AV Fami.
Over on FamicomWorld we've been working on removing jailbars from modded AV famis with great success, so it can be done. Mine looks pretty damn good for composite.
Great news! I have been reading that thread but it really didn't seem definitive.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: KnightWarrior on July 12, 2012, 07:12:02 PM
I game on my 19' Sanyo CRT TV
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: CPTRAVE on July 14, 2012, 10:13:00 AM
I play my TG16 and nintendo on my hitachi Plasma and it is great picture awesome color and sound. LCD complete different technology than Plasma. Plasma is awesome for evrything.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: storino03 on July 14, 2012, 12:29:12 PM
Check out my Youtube for links. I personally use the CSY2100 (clone) to play older consoles through component/rgb:
CSY2100 overview:
Sega Saturn Comparison:
JVC X'EYE Comparison:
Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Ji-L87 on July 14, 2012, 10:44:33 PM
So you had a red tint? Mine was slightly green-ish :P But I adjusted one of those yellow potentiometers and it's better now. Still, we could use like a guide over what all those do.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: grimm on July 14, 2012, 10:51:48 PM
I want to add that Scart is simply a connection standard. not a video/audio format.. Scart does not equal RGB, even if pretty much all scart cables for videogame consoles are RGB ready.. Scart and RGB is not the same thing.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: CPTRAVE on July 16, 2012, 07:13:42 PM
Just won a Free NEC LCD 40 inch monitor (LCD4000), I am trying to hook up the Wii with component cables, but the problem is the TV does not have Component. It has RGB, what do I need to hook it up to see picture and hear audio? ](*,)
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Ji-L87 on July 16, 2012, 08:57:00 PM
What other inputs does it have? HDMI? Or maybe VGA/DVI? Or maybe even BNC?
Maybe the component -> HDMI route could be a good idea. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me but, if you use component cables with your Wii, I'm afraid the output resolution will be too high for RGB scart. Maybe a "cheap" investment would be to see if you can find a DVD recorder or similar with component in and HDMI out? There are also no-name converters on eBay.
Edit:
Reading here (http://www.trustedreviews.com/NEC-Mitsubishi-LCD4000_Monitor_review_nec-mitsubishi-lcd4000_Page-2) I see you should have component input, just with BNC connectors instead of RCA. So just look for adapters with a male BNC end and a female RCA end. The BNC inputs on your display should be labeled with what color goes where.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: CPTRAVE on July 16, 2012, 09:36:12 PM
Yeah it has DVI, BNC which I was planning to use DVI for my XBOX 360, it also has S-video which I was going to use TG-16 on.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: meka on July 17, 2012, 04:37:03 PM
There's nothing better than playing retro games on monitors that tv stations and others used back in the day like sony trinitron's and the like. I compared it to a normal crt and lcd and the trinitron is so much better.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: esadajr on July 25, 2012, 08:29:51 AM
Playing anything below the 6th generation on an LCD is just wrong. But I understand your need for space. Good luck with your project.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: VenomMacbeth on July 25, 2012, 10:51:42 AM
Playing anything below the 6th generation on an LCD is just wrong. But I understand your need for space. Good luck with your project.
That's really all it is, the need for space. I have no problem playing on a CRT, but they're simply too large for the space I have.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: 8bitForLife on July 26, 2012, 11:00:20 PM
get what ever you need here to make games look awesome on hd tv http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/index.php?XTCsid=c76uubefv4o199dkqmmti1hpi4 not an advertisement i plan on getting a slg3000 a scaler and sync strike for saturn and pce. Hes in the process of developing a all in one item of the 3.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: 8bitForLife on July 26, 2012, 11:02:02 PM
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Frank_fjs on July 26, 2012, 11:16:20 PM
I like the SLG3000 but dislike the price and the lack of inputs, meaning you have to spend extra money on the sync strike.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: 8bitForLife on July 27, 2012, 09:53:29 PM
hes making a all in one unit dont know when its going to finish. But most of the best you can hope for from these older systems is scart then the converters. Theres a multi scart switch on ebay then plug that into the slg3000 setup and there ya go just hit a button to switch between consoles.
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: Ji-L87 on July 28, 2012, 08:04:34 AM
As far as I understand this only works well for systems offering RGB out?
Then it's not the perfect solution. : /
Title: Re: Retro Gaming on LCD TVs
Post by: 8bitForLife on July 28, 2012, 09:22:47 AM
well my tv doesnt have scart at all thats why you get converter which that setup does i think there's a s-video stuff also and component or vga on that setup.