No need to solder straight to the ic pin. I soldered to the surface mount resistor that the trace connects to you'll get a much bigger spot to solder with doing that.
The two of you need to keep up the good work. idiots like me need these diagrams to keep from blowing things up.
No need to solder straight to the ic pin. I soldered to the surface mount resistor that the trace connects to you'll get a much bigger spot to solder with doing that.
Yeah I noticed too that between the Tg16 on that pin and on Pce Duo-R that the TG had a bit more/wider soldering area then the other system on pin 40 to attach to on that pin if you decide to solder there, so the pin spot on the TG-16 is easy to use. But in general, as long as you solder on something leading to that pin then it works. If I remember right too the Duo-R has a tiny solder blob leading off of a trace to pin 40 that is very close by, so you can solder on to that too if need be. If you don't have steady hands I'd def recommend finding a spot leading to the pin to attach to, or use a very fine point soldering iron.
Basically why I didn't bother posting any pic of any wires actually soldered to the pin directly, as the layout seems to vary some between systems. Everyone is just going to have to choose the spot leading to the pin that works best for them. Some people will want to attach directly, some wont.
I get worried when someone who can't read diagrams tries to mod it themselves. I always prefer the idea of hiring an experienced modder. I get clients frying a lot of expensive hardware because they wanted to try stuff themselves. Even when I started modding I sat down and learned how to read simple shematics before doing the actual mods.
Also if the duo doesn't have the expansion port maybe you should show which pin is 5v on something easy to show in a picture like the power regulator?
drakon the duo does not have the expansion port, but has 5V at the AV port.
ALL DUO's have the same AV port, as do some PCE's
What I mean is if the person isn't willing to learn how to read a simple schematic. Then they're most likely not patient enough for modding. A schematic involving 1 transistor a couple of resistors and 1 cap isn't complicated at all to learn. My schematics are already highly simplified showing pictures of the actual parts. I admire you making a super easy to follow guide. I've seen lots of threads on forums where people try to follow some super dumbed down guide but still manage to mess it up all over the place. I don't try to make mods for "elites" only I just like to keep it difficult enough that if you demonstrate enough patience to learn how to read and wire it then you should have enough patience to get it done right.
I've never had a duo in my posession I didn't know if it has the same expansion port as the tg16 / pc engine. I'm pretty certain that all consoles contain a 7805 voltage regulator. If they all use the same expansion port then using the expansion port's fine.
everyone is different, some people have the manual skill but the lack of book smarts, some have the book smarts but lack of manual skill. usually though most go to school to learn how to do this stuff and can't simply absorb it. What freezer and the professor are doing is making simplistic easy to follow walk throughs that help those of us who are not as gifted.
well thats fine and dandy, but without someone to tell me what it all means it does not help me much.
Lets stay on topic here please, which is just about the svideo mod itself. If you want Drakon, you could write up a guide with tips and pics to help people new to soldering make the transition easier, and post it it in another thread, maybe help a few avoid making certain mistakes.
Now that you have pictures of where to get 5v from every model it's pretty much as good as it can get.
I don't feel the need you can just google it.
Thought I'd post an update on doing S-video for a TG16 or PC engine that originally had the RF out. This is the easiest S-video mod to do. Some of you may already know this but I found better spots to tap moist signals needed. You can tap 5V and the Composite sync straight from two of the pins that originally went to the RF out. So if you de-solder your RF you can do your mod this way. So this saves having to run really long wires all the way to your expansion port and makes a sturdier connection for the transistor. Also, make sure to still use a 0.001 capacitor. There isn't one in the picture shown. I temporarily hooked it up that way for quick testing purposes.
You guys are wiring the composite video straight into the Chroma pin?It goes through a capacitor first so no, it's not straight into the S-video jack. I take it you've never seen S-video on the PCE/TG-16 in action?
You guys are wiring the composite video straight into the Chroma pin?It goes through a capacitor first so no, it's not straight into the S-video jack. I take it you've never seen S-video on the PCE/TG-16 in action?
You guys are wiring the composite video straight into the Chroma pin? That can't be right. Wouldn't the damage already be done to that Chroma, since its mixed with Luma before you're tapping it? Does that chip produce Chroma by itself?
that bI-directional mixer, is just that.
it would (contaminate your Luma, with chroma.
You guys are wiring the composite video straight into the Chroma pin?It goes through a capacitor first so no, it's not straight into the S-video jack. I take it you've never seen S-video on the PCE/TG-16 in action?
I have not yet. I see it goes through a very small capacitor. My concern would be since the chroma is already part of composite signal, and has been mixed with Luma, hasn't the damage already been done?
lol, i game on CRT in pic
i use the flat panel for mod testing
I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.
I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.
You do know that modern LCDs allow you to set aspect ratio of the inputs, right?
all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it
yeah, running a beefcase setup with a CGXI right now, but i may just do that.
what do you think would be the best way to mount the socket if i were to go the route of replacing it?
If you have a white PCE you can just ditch the useless OEM RF socket completely and replace it with a 4 pin mini DIN.That's what I did with mine and Black Tiger's PCEs. It's a very clean solution and you don't have to drill any extra holes which is really nice.
I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.
At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread.
If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not).
Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.
At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.
People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.
At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.
This is simply not true. If the source material originates in RGB the quality of the output will be RGB > YPbPr > S-Video > Composite > RF. This rules are hard and fast and always apply, if the material is stored in a component format. It should be stated that YPbPr and RGB are closer to how the actual source material looks, it may not look better. Better may be a matter of opinion. It will look more accurate to the source material. You can argue whether this is "better" nor not. People argue using s-video isn't better because it destroys video trick the developers relied on back in those days.
I'd also like to make note that the s-video inputs are labeled incorrectly in the first post. When looking at a female s-video port, as the picture depicts, Luma is going into the right top in (pin 3), and Chroma goes into the left top pin (pin 4).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video
As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states.
Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.
As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states.
So this isn't the s-video schematic for the illiterate then? It requires reading. To be honest I just simply looked at the picture, and noticed something didn't look right.
I think you can see my point though. The picture shows you looking at the female socket end of an s-video plug. Additionally its inconsistent with the Turbo's DIN plug you show right below it. I'm not sure why you're being a jackass about it. I think you can see that there should be some consistency, especially if this is supposed to be for those that can't read schematics.
Insofar as the YPbPr goes, you really believe that the circuit used to implement on YPbPr on cheap TVs is inferior to the circuit used to separate the C into its separate colors from the Y/C input? By you own admission DVDs still looked better. DVDs are a far superior test source.
Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.
Given, but to say some TVs work with Y/C signals better than they work with YPbPr signals makes no sense. No matter what the signals are divided into Red, Green, and Blue Signals. The more separated the signals are to begin with the more accurate reproduction. However, given that YPbPr doesn't actually contain the green color signal, I will admit that YPbPr will look "greener" compared to composite and Y/C. Obviously straight RGB is still the best. (Not in the case of BDs and DVDs though)
I may catch shit for this....but I find it really hard to tell the difference... I just ain't seeing it.Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that...
Video capture cards are a pretty useless gauge of video quality, IMHO. In this case it seems to be doing a great job of presenting the composite at least, usually you get the opposite. Usually everything looks crap. Often times they are wired internally to combine Y/C anyway. Sometimes they have awesome 3D comb filters superior to what's probably in your TV. Then there is all the hardware compression they do which ends up giving you new artifacts not present in the signal, or artificially cleaning it up. Either way, a capture card puts its own unique twist on the signal.
Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.
| (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff216/Sephiroth1975/General/DuoCaseYPbPrSVidMod_zps8bf1b9b9.gif) | Oh sure, there was never any "Don't do the S-Video mod in favor of Component only" message here (It was do both and it's worth it!) and of course the S-Video mod alone is naturally far easier. You can see from my Turbo Duo's case, I aim to do both simultaneously and I have some ideas I wanna try on how to best tweak the Luma and Chroma although there are pros/cons to it all as discussed earlier. |
that is why i prefer live shots of actual monitors/TV's
i have always found cap cards to add excessive blur/filtering
It's kind of funny... Steve can learn how to come up with a S-Video circuit, a YPbPr circuit, an RGB amp, a 3.5" LCD Mod for the Turbo Express, strategically placing a few caps around a video chip to eliminate jail bars, and all sorts of repairs of hardware both electrical and mechanical, etc... BUT, what he can't learn to do or come up with is how to take some decent screenshots, let alone organize them in a useful fashion for the viewer... Heh-heh! Just messin' with ya. ;)
Dvds being outputted in normal play via component, with the video in motion, not running a THX or similar calibration test , using still images for that matter, no you would not see much a difference as compared to an analog out, non-progress scan component signal on a jrok encoder, when running a arcade game boards calibration test. There is a big difference there between the two, and that is where the quality issues were shown.
Its not being rude, its stating a fact. You having issues accepting that, let alone accepting the fact that a shitty crt tube and shitty circuitry, is not going to compete with a solid built set, regardless of the shity one offering component over the better ones s-video out, is not my problem, nor anyone else here. And trying to clog up this thread with your imaginary issues and inability to tell the difference between a bad tv and a good one, that is being a jack ass.
No one here is saying component itself in general is worse then svideo quality wise. Its not. It is superior signal wise. What matters however is the total quality of the sum of the parts used. Its the same thing as having a thousand dollar surround THX receiver and slapping it with a 50 dollar set of used generic no name speakers, versus a solid Pioneer Stereo receiver with two solid Dynaudio speakers. The other guy may have 5.1, but who f*cking cares, because it sounds like 5.1 out of a few tin cans due to the weakest link being the speakers. The same applies to the crt being used. If it is a shitty crt, it is going to be your weakest link in the chain, and therefore your end picture quality is going to suck, regardless of the shitty crt offering component, all it is doing is giving you a worse representation of a otherwise solid signal.
And that worse representation of said signal, being component, is then not going to stand a chance against the best representation of s-video, which is a quality signal just a notch below it for that matter. This also applies to the mod itself. If the component mod is not yet up to snuff, then the end quality is still not going to compete with, nor surpass, the svideo mod that is. As stated before, and now I am basically sounding like a broken record, if you don't understand why all of this is the fact of the matter, then you are a lost cause.
Also, stating REAR of the jack, everyone else seems to know what it meant but you. I mean come on, 5 pages later and the only guy complaining and accusing someone of lying is the one guy who dropped me a pm talking about how he and others argue on the other forum he is on, and is fishing for some back talk about Drakon, who no one else gives a flying f*ck about? Seriously?
Also, in what world does a svideo jack have anything to do with a TurboDuo din plug? They are separate entities, and each were labeled accordingly. Just because you can invent some complaints does not make them valid, and seriously, if you cant READ the words on the schematic, then probably just as well you should not be on the net, since you obviously cant read or type then, correct? Implying someone as being schematic illiterate is a bit different then just implying they are illiterate, which I did not do. Are you some global representative for The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too or something?
Seriously, stop trying to clog up this thread with bullshit already. It is not warranted, wanted, nor appreciated by anyone here who actually knows wtf they are doing, let alone in general.
You clearly don't understand how video works. Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...
You clearly don't understand how video works. Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...
You clearly don't understand how video works. Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...
In unrelated news, and I'm sure this will be of great despair to you all, I am done with this community.
Back on the original topic, has anyone compared this newer s-video mod with the CXA1645 one?
I made a screenshot comparison page based on the CXA mod some time ago if anyone is interested: http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm
I took my screenshots with some ATI All-In-Wonder capture card from an old PC I don't have anymore.
The difference between svideo and composite seems bigger to me with these screenshots (based on the CXA1645 svideo mod) than with the newer mod but I will have to try the newer mod to see how it really does.
I almost pray that the output from the new mod is of similar quality than with the CXA mod because the new mod is simply MUCH easier to perform.
Back on the original topic, has anyone compared this newer s-video mod with the CXA1645 one?
I made a screenshot comparison page based on the CXA mod some time ago if anyone is interested: http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm
I took my screenshots with some ATI All-In-Wonder capture card from an old PC I don't have anymore.
The difference between svideo and composite seems bigger to me with these screenshots (based on the CXA1645 svideo mod) than with the newer mod but I will have to try the newer mod to see how it really does.
I almost pray that the output from the new mod is of similar quality than with the CXA mod because the new mod is simply MUCH easier to perform.
My Duo originally had the even better CXA 2075 S-video mod, which looked just a bit better than CXA 1645 from what I could tell. Now I have it with the newer S-video mod in the same Duo... which I added while I sent it off for a cap replacement after my attempt that went wrong.
I can tell you for sure, it is definitely better. First of all, even the pics you posted show it very well; the colors are more accurate and has a brighter picture more like you see in the original composite video, but much more vibrant and sharp. So you get the right colors and the brighter picture as intended. The new S-Video mod along with some caps added also gets rid of any jail bars and the subtle RF-like interference.
I say remove any CXA based S-Video mods and replace it with the new one.
That's a great comparison, Sensato. I don't think my composite looks that bad, but when I record it to DVD it ends up blurrier than what I see on the TV. S-video looks sooo much sharper, though. I'm really tempted to try this out.
Something bugs me a bit though. Aren't the right colors are supposed to be the ones you get with RGB? S-video should be closer to RGB than composite, no? I mean composite colors might be the ones we are used to, but are they really the right colors?
There is VERY little chances that I'll ever spend 3-4 hours building another CXA1645 svideo circuit for the PCE...
http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm
http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm
Great job on this BTW; a Javascript mouseover to switch between the S-Video shot and back was a good idea. My Turbo Duo Composite was pretty shitty I always thought, I think your shots capture it, even though it's with a capture card.
If you're getting color bleeding through S-video, try checking your ground connections. I've found that leaving the ground unconnected on either the chroma or luma lines can lead to some horrible color bleeding.
I did a quick test earlier this morning and I must admit that I'm impressed with the "new mod".
I have some major color bleeding for now though but I blame the old .001 uf cap I used. The bleeding I have does not appear in screencaps seen in previous posts from other members.
SS8050 transistor - SS8050CBU-ND
S-video jack - CP-2840-ND
I found out a few weeks ago that the "bleeding" I was talking about only occurs on one of my monitor. Turns out that that monitor doesn't like the composite video through the cap for chroma. The bleeding was all gone when I removed the resistor mentionned in Drakon's variant of the mod. I thought this might interest some of you...
Hmm, that's good to know, so some monitors might not like the Chroma filtered out of a Composite signal via a simple capacitor. You might wanna think about my idea here (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=12339.msg288288#msg288288) though of a switch instead of permanently breaking Composite support via resistor removal. A little more work, but better than permanently breaking it.
I hope this was a PC Engine with a normal sized resistor and not a surface mount one, or otherwise, I guess you probably broke it for good and didn't care at the time.
What was the name of the monitor/model number for the one having issues? That has to be a pretty rare event because even my sucky Dynex crt TV worked with the s-vid mod fine. I've yet to run into issues with any of my Tvs via the mod (I own 5 tvs, plus cap card also which it worked on fine), so makes me wonder.
Yeah, there is no way I'm breaking composite compatibility. The mod was done on a US Duo and I aready installed a composite/svideo switch.
I'm curious to know what that switch does on your SNES...
Is anyone one else here running into that issue that Black Lion is having? Also, Black Lion, I've read both good and bad things about your monitor. That one hails from back in 07 when they were kind of skimping on the SD inputs processing, so I am not too surprised that you are having a issue on it, even if it does seem like a random fluke for you. You're monitor maintains like a 6.5 out of 10 rating on Testfreaks. That is really not a good rating at all for a LCD. Pretty much the only really good reviews for it are from people who only use it for modern equipment.
If anyone else is having the same or similar issue with this mod as Black Lion, what tv are you using? LCD, CRT, make, model, year, etc?
This MIGHT be the ONLY monitor with which this newer svideo mod causes trouble, but untill I'm 100% sure of this, I won't take any chances modding systems for others without adding a composite/svideo switch.
sorry to bump this but with the transistor, I want to make sure I'm looking at this right.Yes, and don't forget to add the 220 ohm resistor to the emitter.
obviously the Base leg goto HuC6260
is the collector leg the 5 volt line and the emitter to the s-video socket? I assume yes but want to be sure.
Thought I'd post an update on doing S-video for a TG16 or PC engine that originally had the RF out. This is the easiest S-video mod to do. Some of you may already know this but I found better spots to tap moist signals needed. You can tap 5V and the Composite sync straight from two of the pins that originally went to the RF out. So if you de-solder your RF you can do your mod this way. So this saves having to run really long wires all the way to your expansion port and makes a sturdier connection for the transistor. Also, make sure to still use a 0.001 capacitor. There isn't one in the picture shown. I temporarily hooked it up that way for quick testing purposes.
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/306/cimg6863.html) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/cimg6863.jpg/)
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3697/cimg6867i.html) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/cimg6867i.jpg/)
I have other photos if needed. it is quite messy.
http://starshipvonbraun.com/ss/sega/p1050230.jpg
I think that I may try this soon. It looks relatively simple and should be able to get all the parts I need at the Fry's Electronics near where I work.
I plan on hooking this up to a Commodore 1702 monitor, which allows for separate Chroma/Luma inputs. I figure the S-Video Mod plus one of the below cables will really make things look nice on that monitor (which looks amazing even with composite).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-6Ft-S-Video-Breakout-Cable-S-Video-Male-Male-RCA-VSA356-/390929793225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b053b40c9
I also recently got a RetroN 3 system, which allows for S-Vid out, so using that cable and monitor I think that the NES/SNES/Genny games I'll be playing will look great too.
Any suggestions or advice on potential pitfalls with this mod? I'm a bit rusty with the ol' soldering iron, but overall this looks very simple.
These always work well if you need composite instead of s-video at any point http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-Female-Composite-Video-to-S-Video-VHS-Male-Adapter-Connector-Gold-Plated-/301130903739?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item461cccf0bb