PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: turboswimbz on September 17, 2012, 03:41:23 AM
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So it seems like the pricing on Shockman games are just silly, of course I've only come across them on eBay ($50 - $150) and 1 local store ($75). This game doesn't seem that super rare to me, based on the fact that for a late release there seems to be a fair amount floating around.
$50 with no manual? seems like a lot. Anyone know why they are so high? (is this just another case of fanboy/super collectors: oh I need it to complete my collection, so I'll pay) Also, Just wondering if anyone picked it up recently at something a little more reasonable? For that matter is the game good enough to pay that amount?
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So it seems like the pricing on Shockman games are just silly, of course I've only come across them on eBay ($50 - $150) and 1 local store ($75). This game doesn't seem that super rare to me, based on the fact that for a late release there seems to be a fair amount floating around.
$50 with no manual? seems like a lot. Anyone know why they are so high? (is this just another case of fanboy/super collectors: oh I need it to complete my collection, so I'll pay) Also, Just wondering if anyone picked it up recently at something a little more reasonable? For that matter is the game good enough to pay that amount?
Its not as common as you'd think. Usually when I check the going rate is erratic, and there is never more then 1 or 2 copies up at a time , if that (only two copies listed for sale now on ebay, and my one copy available here for trade). The actual list of completed auctions for the game this year can be viewed here:
http://videogames.pricecharting.com/game/turbografx-16/shockman#completed-auctions
Basically just 19 copies listed to tide over thousands of TG16 collectors.
Take into account a few of these copies may be the same copy being passed around from person to person too, and you also may have a couple of people buying specifically to do the 150 dollar mark up. Personally, if you are going to throw down some cash, I don't recommend paying more then $75 for a copy with the manual. $55 seems to be a fair price for it loose with no manual. Like all things, on ebay, the bidders demand dictates the going rate. If you are extremely patient you could hold out for a loose copy and one will eventually pop up for a low BIN or low bid below $40. But as always, its a waiting game when you do that. The game is fun and all, but better played as a 2 player game then as a single player one. After you beat it once your desire to go back to it probably wont be any time soon.
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I'm starting to think that in fact what I'm witnessing is the passing around of a few copies, making it seem like there are more than there are. I really looked into just now, I will pick it up I'm sure, as always after waiting for one to go under the radar. AS I hit the more rare games, I'm finding it takes more and more time to get a decent copy of stuff, and ebay sellers/buyers are just freaking stupid, prices are all over the place.
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And I'm actually wondering more about the gameplay itself now, anyone have a good review link or imput? I hate expensive games with crappy gameplay. Call me crazy for playing them all. I just find it interesting that the game goes for as much as a few others that seemed to have a lower release amount. but i've also noticed that games seem to go for 10 - 20 - 50 with very little selling in the 25-45 range, for whatever reason.
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It was always in the $45-50 price range but recently I have seen it listed on ebay for $75. I think people are trying to gouge with it as that is the trend with OMG rarez :roll:
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I'll chime in since I feel like I have a bit of experience when it comes to purchasing Shockman. I have had 3 copies in my possession at one time. Today, I still have 2 copies. Of the 3 copies, I purchased two off eBay and the third I picked up in a private sale. The two eBay copies I picked up for $39.99 (w/manual) and the second was $42 (w/manual).
It seems that depending on your location, this title is rare. For some reason it seems people on the west coast don't run into this title often. I'm in the east (Ontario), and like I said I have had 3 copies.
You should not have to pay over $40 for this title. That's hu card AND manual. If you want the box and tray, well that's another story. Why the prices are so high I can't say other than there seems to be a huge surge in retro collecting this year and prices are just getting stupid. It's definitely buyer beware.
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I've seen it online for <$30 several times in 2012 and also bought one for myself at that price.
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Honestly, Id have to ask this because the only real online reference check for this games going rate seems to be ebay, and I'd prefer to not just take someones word for it, is there any compiled list of legit completed transactions for this game from 2010 and 2011? And when I ask that I mean more then 2 or 3 just done on this forum? And I ask this because I know for a fact the last time I collected PCE stuff the game was going for $80 sumthin still (2007-2009). I know this because I had to research it and sell a copy for a friend a few years back.
And its unfortunate, but rare games do tend to simply go up in value as more people get into the hobby. Just like in any other market, a sudden influx of customers and not enough items to go around is going to drive up price of desired items. Its a part of supply and demand. Unless everyone agrees on a certain going price, AND is willing to partake in listing their own copies all at once in some meaningful number to set a new steady price trend, then there isn't much you can do but throw your hands up in the air and walk away if you don't like the current rates, ebay or otherwise. In other words its TOGTFO. The only other choice you have is to hold out and wait and maybe something will happen like what happened with Exile and Cosmic Fantasy 2, where a sudden influx of new sealed copies hit the market for cheap. While highly unlikely, it is possible.
Also, I think I have made my thoughts clear on this title before, but just for the sake of it I will repeat it here. Fun wise I don't view this game as worth getting for the $60-75 range unless you have 2 player ability and someone who would like to play this with you. As a single player game it is hard in spots and you may not feel the single player experience is worth the asking price. I definitely don't. Personally I don't even feel as a single player game you will get $50 bucks of fun out of it. This is one of those titles that to me you really need to load the rom up before buying and make sure you play it enough to decide how much its worth paying for, because its rarity dictates its value more then its fun/replay value. Then again, I feel the same way about Double Dragon 2 on Pce, and people pay stupid amounts for it all the time, way more then they spend on Shockman on average.
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I got my shockman for 14.95 used, locally, loose 5 years ago.
That's the closest I got for a price history.
And that was before the market for Turbo games went f*cking retarded.
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I got my shockman for 14.95 used, locally, loose 5 years ago.
That's the closest I got for a price history.
And that was before the market for Turbo games went f*cking retarded.
Every now and then people get lucky and find stuff all the time at local stores like Vintage Stock and other shops that sell used books and games, etc. Even now there are deals to be had as long as the shop owners don't rely on online prices when they go to price stuff. While it doesn't mean that will happen for everyone, people get lucky all the time. Just takes persistence and patience. I have found all sorts of stuff in the wild all the time when I do my local shopping. For me the rare stuff I am really interested in in the wild is older computer stuff (software and hardware). Just recently I scored a nice AT Super Socket 7 build that I gutted (sharing the wealth, the SS7 board is going to Herc along with a SB Live and 3DFX Banshee card, etc).
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I wish the whole retrogaming thing didn't go apeshit like it has.
YOu used to walk into the record exchange ("The Exchange") and buy NES shit for 1$. Battle of Olympus is like 10$ now.
Contra? 8 or 9$
Mine still has the 2.50$ pricetag on it.
the only thing thats changed is peoples perception of the shit.
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Yeah to pick up Contra on Nes here locally now will run you about $20 or so, which is even more then ebay average going prices. This seems to be a going trend of places like GameXchange now, set a price a few bucks higher then the ebay going average, and stick it in a glass case and wait for a sucker to buy it. Odds are someone will, for as many collectors and gamers as you have shopping on ebay or online, you still have a ton that don't and rely specifically on local game stores, who just so happen screw them with a smile on their face every time they walk in the store.
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I go in and see if they have anything cheap sometimes. I hate when its clamshell sega games with no manuals. I have to go ask some dickbag to open the cabinet, then he gives you some shpeel about how cool the game is, only to find out its missing the manual or the cartridge looks like it fell in a pile of shit.
At least the one store I go to, they price things sanely, the guy working actually played the games when they were out, and he can usually tell you if the manual is there before opening it.
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Honestly, Id have to ask this because the only real online reference check for this games going rate seems to be ebay, and I'd prefer to not just take someones word for it, is there any compiled list of legit completed transactions for this game from 2010 and 2011? And when I ask that I mean more then 2 or 3 just done on this forum? And I ask this because I know for a fact the last time I collected PCE stuff the game was going for $80 sumthin still (2007-2009). I know this because I had to research it and sell a copy for a friend a few years back.
And its unfortunate, but rare games do tend to simply go up in value as more people get into the hobby. Just like in any other market, a sudden influx of customers and not enough items to go around is going to drive up price of desired items. Its a part of supply and demand. Unless everyone agrees on a certain going price, AND is willing to partake in listing their own copies all at once in some meaningful number to set a new steady price trend, then there isn't much you can do but throw your hands up in the air and walk away if you don't like the current rates, ebay or otherwise. In other words its TOGTFO. The only other choice you have is to hold out and wait and maybe something will happen like what happened with Exile and Cosmic Fantasy 2, where a sudden influx of new sealed copies hit the market for cheap. While highly unlikely, it is possible.
Also, I think I have made my thoughts clear on this title before, but just for the sake of it I will repeat it here. Fun wise I don't view this game as worth getting for the $60-75 range unless you have 2 player ability and someone who would like to play this with you. As a single player game it is hard in spots and you may not feel the single player experience is worth the asking price. I definitely don't. Personally I don't even feel as a single player game you will get $50 bucks of fun out of it. This is one of those titles that to me you really need to load the rom up before buying and make sure you play it enough to decide how much its worth paying for, because its rarity dictates its value
more then its fun/replay value. Then again, I feel the same way about Double Dragon 2 on Pce, and people pay stupid amounts for it all the time, way more then they spend on Shockman on average.
I saw a couple sell on eBay this year for <$30. The only two copies if Turbo Dynastic Hero that I've seen listed on eBay at all this year both sold for $50. Unfortunately, eBay shortened the completed listing history to favor gouging.
Shockman is one of the formally overpriced Turbo games that has been steadily coming down in price in gouging circles for a while now. Just like how noobs used to believe that $70 was the cheapest you could expect to find Air Zonk for, which now also sells for $20 - $30 on eBay.
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Mine sold on eBay for $75 about a month and a half ago. It was about as close to new as you could get.
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I saw a couple sell on eBay this year for <$30. The only two copies if Turbo Dynastic Hero that I've seen listed on eBay at all this year both sold for $50. Unfortunately, eBay shortened the completed listing history to favor gouging.
Shockman is one of the formally overpriced Turbo games that has been steadily coming down in price in gouging circles for a while now. Just like how noobs used to believe that $70 was the cheapest you could expect to find Air Zonk for, which now also sells for $20 - $30 on eBay.
Yeah about the $30 or less thing, I posted a link above. They have a record of every auction that has taken place for this year, and you can still view all of those. The price has not been steadily coming down. Instead it has maintained a high average that is too erratic to pick a solid going rate. Ebay doesn't ditch the auctions or anything completely, they just remove the ability to dig back only so far using their own user based internal search engine. Otherwise you are fine to view stuff via other search engines, you just cant view anything past 2012 with the link I posted above, which is why I asked.
Yeah a couple have ended in the 30 and below range, one in March, one in May. Did it set a new pricing trend though, nope, not a chance. I did a list of all of the auction amounts ended this year for the game that actually sold, along with their end bid amounts, month, and if it was sold via BID or BIN. Only 5 were sold via BIN prices, the majority of which were low priced. The rest, the other 13 copies, were sold via auction bids. The bidders clearly decided the going amount, not the seller. Due to that you can hardly blame the going rate on the seller, or label them a gouger. It would be like accusing yourself of the same for selling Ys 3 for over $260 when you had no play what so ever in the end auction amount.
20-30 range
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36.00 May BIDS
24.00 Mar BIN
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40 range
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41.00 Sep BIDS
39.99 Aug BIN
46.99 July BIDS
39.99 July BIDS
40.00 July BIN
41.75 May BIDS
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50 range
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49.99 Jun BIDS
51.06 Aug BIDS
52.00 Feb BIN
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60 range
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67.52 Jul BIDS
66.00 Jun BIDS
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70 -80 range
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76.99 Jul BIDS
79.99 Mar BIN
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100 on up
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102.50 Aug BIDS
102.50 Aug BIDS (two times, two diff sellers and items, end amount the same, I know right?)
118.50 May BIDS
5 sold via BIN
13 sold via BIDS
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The only other choice you have is to hold out and wait and maybe something will happen like what happened with Exile and Cosmic Fantasy 2, where a sudden influx of new sealed copies hit the market for cheap. While highly unlikely, it is possible.
Those copies were old stock from Working Designs. The chance of that happening again is basically nil. There are still a few big European sellers with piles of sealed games, but they seem to be well aware of their worth.
I saw a couple sell on eBay this year for <$30. The only two copies if Turbo Dynastic Hero that I've seen listed on eBay at all this year both sold for $50. Unfortunately, eBay shortened the completed listing history to favor gouging.
Shockman is one of the formally overpriced Turbo games that has been steadily coming down in price in gouging circles for a while now. Just like how noobs used to believe that $70 was the cheapest you could expect to find Air Zonk for, which now also sells for $20 - $30 on eBay.
Those $50 Dynastic Heroes were both unrelated BIN flukes that sold within seconds. Encouraging, but hardly a gauge of the game's worth. There was an auction this year that went for about $400. I remember seeing it and being encouraged by the relative lack of inflation because bought my copy for slightly less back in 2007 (dirty secret).
I agree with you on Shockman and Air Zonk. They haven't come down in price, but they've been all over the place for years. On a bad day, a CIB copy can fetch a $100 from an idiot in a bidding war and it's back to $50 the next. Boxless copies have always been affordable for the patient buyer. The only hucards that have continued to grow and seem to be genuinely rare are the '93 releases.
Yeah a couple have ended in the 30 and below range, one in March, one in May. Did it set a new pricing trend though, nope, not a chance. I did a list of all of the auction amounts ended this year for the game that actually sold, along with their end bid amounts, month, and if it was sold via BID or BIN.
Very nice list. I think most people would agree with your interpretation of the data, but personally I'm a very patient buyer and I err on lower side. IME, erratic price fluctuations on ebay are nothing new. I generally wait six months before buying an expensive game and use the lowest auction within that period to determine a real value.
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102.50 Aug BIDS
102.50 Aug BIDS (two times, two diff sellers and items, end amount the same, I know right?)
Looking at the auctions - one was CIB and the other was manual and card only in generic jewel. Big difference, same price...
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BTW Professor, since you were gone awhile, I would say that most PCEFX grognards and f*ckEbay members follow some kind of lowest-price-in-recent-memory method when appraising games. "Recent" being the relative term. I go back a year or so; Black Tiger seems to go back several years; Nat seems to be frozen in 1995. All of this causes considerable debate with noobs when they try to flip last month's purchases.
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102.50 Aug BIDS
102.50 Aug BIDS (two times, two diff sellers and items, end amount the same, I know right?)
Looking at the auctions - one was CIB and the other was manual and card only in generic jewel. Big difference, same price...
Yeah exactly, big difference but odd they both managed to land at the exact same end auction amount. Random chance I guess.
Very nice list. I think most people would agree with your interpretation of the data, but personally I'm a very patient buyer and I err on lower side. IME, erratic price fluctuations on ebay are nothing new. I generally wait six months before buying an expensive game and use the lowest auction within that period to determine a real value.
I can totally understand and relate with this. I am like that a lot, esp with games that I have never played before, or have not played in years because I don't want to risk throwing money away on a title I may not enjoy so much. Basically at times like that I give what I am willing to pay if the seller already sets a low price. But I dont like to do low ball offers to people either. I don't like it done to me and I wont do it to others.
This other thing I want to mention, and I'm sure it will bother people and all, but I mean, why the f*ck do people bother maintaining a thread solely dedicated to just bitching about what a seller decides to price a game at. I can see maybe making light of it, a joke or two maybe in different threads, but I mean simply move on after that. Its not like anyone is actually forcing you to buy it at said price or anything. You may not like the price of girl scout cookies because Wal-Mart sells cheaper ones, but I don't see anyone maintaining huge rants about the Girl Scouts of America price gouging some damn thin mint cookies, nor any phone campaigns being started to bitch them out.
It just gets to the point that its silly. Therese better shit to worry about then ranting and raving about sellers prices, like ones who ripped people off, or don't deliver items as described. If some seller wants to price some game at some godly amount you are not willing to pay, who cares. Eventually no one will bite and he will have to lower his price or just be stuck with it. Its no skin off your back until you start stressing over it needlessly. And I mean its not like people here don't jack prices up either (Not namin names, but seriously, 30 for SCI, 35 for Gradius, 100 for Double Dragon 2???). I mean its to there its at a point like people feel they need to look for some bad guy from afar to point fingers at, and you don't really. Theres been plenty of bad guys and price gougers posting here off and on to stress over as is, and far more serious shit to worry about.
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BTW Professor, since you were gone awhile, I would say that most PCEFX grognards and f*ckEbay members follow some kind of lowest-price-in-recent-memory method when appraising games. "Recent" being the relative term. I go back a year or so; Black Tiger seems to go back several years; Nat seems to be frozen in 1995. All of this causes considerable debate with noobs when they try to flip last month's purchases.
Yeah I dont do that. I like hard data to base my prices off of, and then if I am in the mood, which I usually am, if its a community related sale I am usually good with 80-90 percent of the average going rate off the hard data. Just a habit of mine. I'm pretty cool with people till they start sticking me with low ball crap.
Almost forgot.
http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Shockman-TurboGrafx16-1992-/56236178?_refkw=shockman&_pcatid=2&rt=nc&_pcategid=139973&_pdpal=1&_dmpt=Video_Games_Games
Currently those two listed there are what I would consider far past extreme for this game. Hopefully no one here jumps on them, but if so, whatever.
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I literally have very little time onlibe and am limited by what I can pist from my phone and much of this has been discussed in the past. "Trends" and peak prices only matter to sellers. Thd premium you pay for a game at a high price is for time. You are paying to obtain the gane NOW. If price for someone isn't much of a factor in buying a game, then it doesn't really matter the highs and lows. If it does, then as a buyer, only the lower end matters and if it's still too high, then the market shrinks further as there is yet one more less potential buyer.
Sealed game collectibles are conpletely independant of games to pkay values. Sealed gane prices only reflect real game prices to an extent when they aren't far off of compkete prices and this is often the case with lower priced games. If a sealed copy if a game sells fir ten times what the saje game goes for with case and manual, then it is part if a purely collectiboe market and ceases to be a game as the buyers are making sure that it literally will never be played. It is a plastic wrapped box. If the manufacturer screwed up and inserted the wrong game or no game, it still doesn't matter as it will not be opened or utilized.
What exactly does the source of those stats track? An official eBay UPC scan of a product like "Shockman TurboGrafx-16 game (1993)" or whatever, with the stock description and pic? Or is it an AI that gathers all the random listing like Shockman, Shock Man, and the many unique spellings of Turbo-Graphics16?
Anyway, this past year I happened to decide to pickup the rest of the Turbo HuCards I didn't already have and got all but one of them. This led me to see what most games have been going tor from a buyer's perspective. Too many times I saw games sell two or three times for what some would call "flukes" and then decide to finally seriously try to buy it. Only to hit a period of extra high prices and/or few listings. Reading what someone/thing posts and considering it hard data over what soneone else posts is fine. But my hard data has been what I personally witnessed this year. I was actually very surprised by how often it would come up for some reason and I'd check and there would he several Air Zonks both sold and available with BINs in the $20's and $30's.
The fluke with Dynastic Hero is finding one for sale at all. If the lack of listings creates a lack of reference for sellers and that leads to low BIN listings, it doesn't matter how things would be if all copies were already in the hands of gougers. That would he the fantasy, while the current situation, no matter how illogical to some, has been favoring the "fluke" scenario.
It seems like Necromancer has to say it once a week, but if this thread doesn't interest anyone, no one is forcing them to read or post. I am not interested in most of what goes on in Fighting Street and therefore don't post much there. What's the point of joining a discussion you see no point in to ask what's the point? It's true there ard better things to discuss... but they are also being discussed. This thread doesn't negate others. I've thought of doing a low selling price thread in the past, but as others have explained before, this thread already works as a general discussion of pricing for buyers (not sellers).
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I believe how it tracks it is via the name of the game, along with some variations on how it would be spelled and if the system name was in the title. About the only way it wouldn't be able to spot a auction is if the name was horribly misspelled, and if that ends up being the case, even the ebay search engine would fail at finding the game while it was currently listed. It also checks Amazon.com and Half. Currently there is "one" loose hu-card copy up on Amazon.com of Shockman for 49.99, with free shipping.
Air Zonk, in contrast to Shockman, has maintained a average price in the $30-40 range this year, via both BIDS and BIN, which is pretty reasonable all in all considering the quality of the game. It is also listed far more frequently then Shockman. Usually during the month there is 5-10 copies listed at any given time for Air Zonk, for both BID and BIN prices, and not all of them sell, where as when Shockman gets listed, it sells 98 percent of the time unless the price is just way way too crazy. The irony of all that is that Air Zonk is a far far better game then Shockman.
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Hmmm thanks guys, I really hadn't considered many of things brought up here. I think what I'm seeing, and what I'm having issues with is 1) why exactly prices went haywire in the last 12 months or so, most likely it's just the influx of collectors and 2) and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming. Video games are fun, period. They are not life or death. It just seems a little bit crazy for me to see these games bounce all over the place as there seems to be a scamble for them, and then for there to be people very personally upset over it. I guess my breaking point was a couple of days ago when I was in a retro electronic/music store and the worker told me that it was unfair for me to offer anything less the current prices on e-bay auctions and amazon, and continually got upset over it when I suggested that he was wrong and I wouldn't buy anything. And another guy in line was cursing at him, and trying to get me involved in some sort of match with this guy. Needless to say I left about :10 later.
*screw ebay screw gougers screw those who can't have fun with games*
I like to hold out, myself and get what I think is a fair or good price for games, which is why I was posting about shockman, got an offer to buy a loose for 50 at said store and passed for now.
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It seems like Necromancer has to say it once a week, but if this thread doesn't interest anyone, no one is forcing them to read or post. I am not interested in most of what goes on in Fighting Street and therefore don't post much there. What's the point of joining a discussion you see no point in to ask what's the point? It's true there ard better things to discuss... but they are also being discussed. This thread doesn't negate others. I've thought of doing a low selling price thread in the past, but as others have explained before, this thread already works as a general discussion of pricing for buyers (not sellers).
I think you are confusing this thread with the "ebay gouging much" thread, which I dont read much in except once in a blue moon for the reasons I stated above, because I don't care to stress over what people on ebay price stuff at if its too high for me. No one has stated there was no point to this thread, and no one is ragging on any specific sellers in here. This thread is actually pretty productive so far in general. Hard data has been posted and the discussion is good.
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I didn't mean for this to be a gouging thread, or selling thread anyway, I was really just looking into why I saw the big jump. It in no way should be a comment on gouging but rather in pricing in general. As well as how rare the game acutally is looking on as buyer. there are many things that could be said and posted regarding this I am sure.
I am really trying to collect as many games as I can, while I can, and trying to come up with a realistic view of why I am seeing such sporadic and trending up of prices. I'm sure in a few weeks this thread shall be forgotten.
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and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming. Video games are fun, period. They are not life or death.
/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.
If anything, if you feel you just have to take some action concerning the matter, you can try to make a clean attempt to educate said seller, extend a olive branch of sorts, show them some solid evidence of what said game actually goes for ( dont just pm them saying "dude, are you a f*cking idiot, this game goes for like 20 bucks, I know cuz like I saw it go for that much like last week and stuff bro"), then leave the ball in their court. If they persist, then just ignore and continue on. Its no big deal. It's on them, not you.
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and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming. Video games are fun, period. They are not life or death.
/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.
If anything, if you feel you just have to take some action concerning the matter, you can try to make a clean attempt to educate said seller, extend a olive branch of sorts, show them some solid evidence of what said game actually goes for ( dont just pm them saying "dude, are you a f*cking idiot, this game goes for like 20 bucks, I know cuz like I saw it go for that much like last week and stuff bro"), then leave the ball in their court. If they persist, then just ignore and continue on. Its no big deal. It's on them, not you.
Agreed, for the most part.
Bottom line is, if a game is super expensive, and one wants to play it, you could always just fork over the cash for it and then sell it when you are done.
Unless you are a collector, in which case, you are generally going to have to get used to separating yourself from your money.
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and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming. Video games are fun, period. They are not life or death.
/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.
If anything, if you feel you just have to take some action concerning the matter, you can try to make a clean attempt to educate said seller, extend a olive branch of sorts, show them some solid evidence of what said game actually goes for ( dont just pm them saying "dude, are you a f*cking idiot, this game goes for like 20 bucks, I know cuz like I saw it go for that much like last week and stuff bro"), then leave the ball in their court. If they persist, then just ignore and continue on. Its no big deal. It's on them, not you.
ahhhhhhhhh just came back to edit that in! thanks professor, and btw hope i haven't lowballed you on the trading.
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why the f*ck do people bother maintaining a thread solely dedicated to just bitching about what a seller decides to price a game at.
The gouging thread doesn't require maintaining! It's a self-perpetuating, life-giving, well of hate. Once a week Necro tells a re-seller to GTFO and it grows another twenty pages. It's miraculous.
You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. (emphasis added)
There is an annoying element of OMG! :shock: Perpetual shock! in the gouging thread. Some contributors seem to have nothing better to do than surf ebay all day and get in a huff over what should be a fact of life. I appreciate the links they post, but I don't always understand the high degree of emotional investment. High prices on ebay? Does a bear shit in the woods?
You mention an important point in your last line - most of us (I hope) see Turbo gaming as a hobby. Where the gouging thread really shines IMO is combating the increasingly prevalent business mentality. I may not care too much about individual prices, but nothing gets my goat like collector noobs talking about their "investments" and calculating inflation, or mentioning how "re-sellers deserve a 10-20% profit margin", or how "I bought it for $150 last year, so I'm asking $280". People are entitled to believe these things, but it's a real slap in the face when they're PCEFX members and not anonymous sellers trying to screw strangers on ebay.
It would be one thing if these "free market" advocates would keep to ebay, repair their own systems, figure out which games don't have cases, buy games at ebay prices, and be the rugged individuals they pretend to be, but after they've gotten all chummy and asked us for help and repair advice and appraisals and entered raffles and asked a million dumb, annoying questions, the last thing I want to hear is some f*cking lecture about how the act of owning a game for a few months increases its value.
Yes, the TG16 is a hobby and I love it. And nothing adds stress to a hobby like a bunch of investors and resellers trying to make a living by doing nothing.
And whatever your opinion of the gouging thread, it is a good place to fight with some of the most annoying members here.
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and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming. Video games are fun, period. They are not life or death.
/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.
Thank you! Finally, said quite eloquently.
Bottom line is, if a game is super expensive, and one wants to play it, you could always just fork over the cash for it and then sell it when you are done.
Thank you for posting this - I believe this is more likely the eBay mentality of people spending far too much on games, than the paranoid delusion that there is an evil network of resellers buying all the TG stuff to hold on to it. There is even a term in economics for this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
That said, this is what leads to bubbles popping. People paying $100 each for Shockman are in for a shock when it corrects itself back to a more reasonable price based on rarity and desirability (c'mon, the game is programmed so poorly, it f*cks up the composite signal.)
Also, anyone thinking that people are buying games at current, full prices off ebay, and then immediately reposts it for 15% higher is a fool. The math doesn't work out. Here is a primer. Ebay takes 16% off the top of the first $50, and 8% off the remaining up to $1,000. Now, if you buy a copy of Shockman for $100, you need to sell it for Approximately $115 just to make your money back. That would be dumb.
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I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.
Says the undisputed champion of windmill tilting. :roll:
It's obvious from the amount of participation that some people enjoy the thread, but feel free to skip it if you don't like it. Either way, you're mistaken if you think everyone is giving themselves an ulcer over steep prices instead of simply snagging a few cheap lulz.
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There are only two copies of "Shockman" under current completed eBay listings. One sold at auction for $41 with the manual, aka "complete". The other was the HuCard alone, which failed to sell at $44.99.
eBay is not the Turbo market. It is just the most inflated market at its top end for Turbo games. But today's (not five years ago) collector driven eBay value for Shockman is well below $40.
There are only two completed eBay listings for "AirZonk". One sold for $19.99 and the other with "game, instruction, manual and box" failed to receive the minimum bid of $30.
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There are only two copies of "Shockman" under current completed eBay listings. One sold at auction for $41 with the manual, aka "complete". The other was the HuCard alone, which failed to sell at $44.99.
eBay is not the Turbo market. It is just the most inflated market at its top end for Turbo games. But today's (not five years ago) collector driven eBay value for Shockman is well below $40.
There are only two completed eBay listings for "AirZonk". One sold for $19.99 and the other with "game, instruction, manual and box" failed to receive the minimum bid of $30.
Geez - how short a period is the "completed listings" search now? 2 weeks?
I remember it used to be as long as the item was still on the site (up to 6 months), then it went to 90 days...
Items are still visible from July, but the completed items search doesn't show them - you have to see them through feedback links or saved links.
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I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby. Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.
Says the undisputed champion of windmill tilting. :roll:
It's obvious from the amount of participation that some people enjoy the thread, but feel free to skip it if you don't like it. Either way, you're mistaken if you think everyone is giving themselves an ulcer over steep prices instead of simply snagging a few cheap lulz.
Like I said, there is better things to get pissed about. The TZD RedFrog days are over(and Redfrog was actually ripping people off, I got items not as described). Its not worth getting pissed about anymore. Not like you guys didn't just run Carlson out of town, even after he offered to sell Cotton outside of ebay to someone here at a lower price. No one was even interested in hearing that or giving him a chance to see if he would, or to see how much. Too busy name calling and chasing him off. Be one thing if he ripped someone off here, but he didn't, unless you have news of otherwise, his only crime evidently, pricing a game higher then you'd like it to be. And its not like he had to come here and address the issue. He doesn't actually need anyone's business here, but again, he tried. I'm not going to sit here and trash this thread arguing with you about that though, so think and feel whatever, I really don't care. Anyone is more then welcome to vent and hate on pricing, just saying, better far more serious shit to get pissed about then the pricing of wants, not needs.
There are only two copies of "Shockman" under current completed eBay listings. One sold at auction for $41 with the manual, aka "complete". The other was the HuCard alone, which failed to sell at $44.99.
eBay is not the Turbo market. It is just the most inflated market at its top end for Turbo games. But today's (not five years ago) collector driven eBay value for Shockman is well below $40.
There are only two completed eBay listings for "AirZonk". One sold for $19.99 and the other with "game, instruction, manual and box" failed to receive the minimum bid of $30.
On Shockman, the one that failed to sell didn't fail. The guy actually listed it the first time around and ran into a non-paying bidder. He then relisted and I guess pulled it because he got a offer outside ebay for 51 bucks or sumthin. I shot him a PM the other day inquiring about it.
EDITED IN:
Addressing this part in particular eBay is not the Turbo market. It is just the most inflated market at its top end for Turbo games. But today's (not five years ago) collector driven eBay value for Shockman is well below $40.
Its not the Turbo marketplace, but that didn't stop you from taking a sealed Ys3 there first, right? Whats the first place that popped into your head when you decided to sell it? I doubt it was here. And that is fine and all, but don't try to deny the existence of said market place when you yourself have used it to your benefit. And also, it was quite clearly proven that Shockmans going average is not below $40 bucks. Only 2 out of 18 times did that happen, and one of them was via BIN, so either the seller was feeling very generous, desperate for quick cash, or just had no idea on how much to ask for. Either way, the lowest minority number does not decide the going rate, the majority does. To ignore the such is basically the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "blah blah blah blah". You can do that all damn day, but it wont get you anywhere.
I can understand how you'd want ebay to not be the main market for TG-16and PCE games in North America and other areas of the world, but sorry, it just is. Its not like you can just walk into any game store and see a huge, or even decent size and nice selection of Turbo games to select from. You cant even do it here on this forum unless someone parts with a lot of doubles or liquidates his collection. Here you have to wait until someone decides to let their own copies of stuff go for obvious reasons, and even here you can find people raising the price higher then ebay average rates.
Its like having the same mentality that there are no Turbo collectors other then the ones found here, and that's most definitely not true. There are quite a few in my area alone who simply don't care to belong to forum groups because their only interest is actually playing said games, and most of their current NEC shopping is done via Ebay, because there is not many other places to grab NEC related games from. No one brings the stuff into local game stores to trade in because local game stores try to rip them off with low in store credit. Only other choice is CL and ebay.
Over 2 million Turbos sold in America right? Its not like only the 40 or 50 people active on this forum are the only ones left still playing them and buying games for them. Thats why Turbo games sell so well on ebay. Its the quickest, easiest place to access for the majority to find what they want. This community is great, dont get me wrong, but it doesn't even come close to representing the majority of Turbo users around the world. Its better to just accept that and just feel pride in the fact that this system is still going strong in many gamers eyes all over the world well past a Japan 87 launch. Thats quite a accomplishment in and of itself, regardless of where the majority of games are being bought and sold at.
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I found a copy locally in Kirkland, WA with the HuCard, sleeve and mint manual for $18. I think that shop owner didn't realize what he had at the time, and I wasn't about to tell him.
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Enjoy where this thread has gone, On the shockman that was re listed, He may have made second chance offers, and someone took it after a few days? Anyway I actually came across a loosey for $40 in the past day. (not a great price by any means) I got it, (for no reason other than I could) It'll always make for a good trade later on, being it's on the rare side.
I'm finding Ebay is 10% skill in searching and bidding, and 90% luck, on whether you can find what you want at a deal.
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Not like you guys didn't just run Carlson out of town, even after he offered to sell Cotton outside of ebay to someone here at a lower price. No one was even interested in hearing that or giving him a chance to see if he would, or to see how much. Too busy name calling and chasing him off.
Hey, let's give credit where credit is due - the flame war with MagGear was 90% me. I know 16-bit is honest in his dealings and I respect his mature, nonviolent online persona, but $500 for Cotton is f-bombing trippin' balls cuckoo. Talk is cheap and to say that he's willing to haggle is a lot different than just offering a fair price upfront. Also, asking $500 for a $150 game doesn't leave much room for a fair compromise. He tried to appease us by mentioning that he sold another copy in the past for a paltry sum of <$300, which only reinforces how insane and far from reality his prices are.
At this point in a conversation, you usually respond with some variation of "he can do what he wants" and I know that. Likewise, we're not obliged to like what other people do and we're free to tell them so to their face.
We both agree that Turbo gaming is a hobby, so I don't understand how you can defend a guy whose only contribution is buying a game for $100+ and trying to resell it for $500. That's not how I'd define a hobbyist; folks like that can go elsewhere.
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Not like you guys didn't just run Carlson out of town, even after he offered to sell Cotton outside of ebay to someone here at a lower price. No one was even interested in hearing that or giving him a chance to see if he would, or to see how much. Too busy name calling and chasing him off.
Hey, let's give credit where credit is due - the flame war with MagGear was 90% me. I know 16-bit is honest in his dealings and I respect his mature, nonviolent online persona, but $500 for Cotton is f-bombing trippin' balls cuckoo. Talk is cheap and to say that he's willing to haggle is a lot different than just offering a fair price upfront. Also, asking $500 for a $150 game doesn't leave much room for a fair compromise. He tried to appease us by mentioning that he sold another copy in the past for a paltry sum of <$300, which only reinforces how insane and far from reality his prices are.
At this point in a conversation, you usually respond with some variation of "he can do what he wants" and I know that. Likewise, we're not obliged to like what other people do and we're free to tell them so to their face.
We both agree that Turbo gaming is a hobby, so I don't understand how you can defend a guy whose only contribution is buying a game for $100+ and trying to resell it for $500. That's not how I'd define a hobbyist; folks like that can go elsewhere.
I honestly have no idea what he paid for it. Did he actually state the actual amount he paid? And I mean even then, who cares. Its his business, not mine. He doesn't owe me or anyone any kind of explanation of how he got it, or how much he paid for it. And I'm not disputing the fact that 500 is extreme for the game, but I know enough about the guy to know if a member here contacted him about it odds are fair he'd maybe let them have it for a lot cheaper then that I am sure, or if they met up with him at a convention. And I mean, hypothetically, if he had told you, or anyone else that was ragging on him that he would take lets say $240 or sumthin for it right then, would you have grabbed it? Did you even have the cash laying around anyway? Either way, for me, I don't care if its $150 or 250 or 500. I'd rather buy the PCE version. Its the same game, but far cheaper.
Also, it may be more then anything that he listed a high price because thats what it would take for him to let it go out of his own collection. Some people seem to have this perceived notion that his only interest in games is as a business, and its not. He plays and collects games too, just like anyone else here. I can vouch for this because I have done work for him prior. Not saying this IS his situation, but sometimes from a collectors point of view, its hard to let go of something. Maybe you'd be willing to, but only if a certain amount can be had, regardless of actual market value, simply because you know you may not get another one any time soon. It ends up being on of those situations where you are basically having to talk someone out of a game instead of simply looking at them as a seller. You have to make it worth it to him to let said item go. Sometimes no reasonable amount you offer will do.
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The seller has the right to charge what they want. The buyer has the right to pay or not pay. Thats commerce folks. Your not entitled to the game, and bitching bout it cause you don't feel like paying the stated price is silly. Don't like it, save your breath, and move on. there will be other opportunities. Argue it any way you like till your blue in the face, its just that simple.
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Enjoy where this thread has gone...
Me too. I've only posted the once, but I've read everything in it's entirety. Great discussion.
I'm finding Ebay is 10% skill in searching and bidding, and 90% luck, on whether you can find what you want at a deal.
^^^ This, but I will change it up a bit. 10% skill, 10% patience, 10% timing, 70% luck. My only real option for turbob is eBay. Is it the devil? It can be, but it's also put me in touch with a bunch of Turbo enthusiasts that I never would have met without it. For example, one of my first bulk TG purchases happened through eBay. A seller posted about 12 games I wanted. All of them were overpriced. I was new to TG pricing, but I still knew they were overpriced. So I contacted the seller through eBay and told him. Then I went a step further and made him an offer on all 12 games. We bartered back and forth and finally decided on a price. He cancelled all his auctions and I sent him cash through PayPal. Risky? Yes, but he upheld his side of the deal and I received the games within a week.
The point of my story is that eBay, while absolutely absurd in pricing, average pricing, and fees is still a very resourceful tool for resourceful individuals. By the way, this is only one of my examples. I've made a few back alley deals through eBay and even had a seller send me a few items for $0. They just saw that I was a fan and shipped me a few things. You need to be a good judge of character, and lucky, but it does happen. As for my 'legit' purchases through eBay, I've said in the past that the average price I've set for myself is $20 on each game. If I bid and get it cheaper then it's a welcomed bonus.
For Shockman it was unrealistic to hope to get it for $20. Possible? Maybe, but unlikely, at least for me. So my set price was $40. I think if you use eBay in this manner then you won't overbid/pay for anything. Of course I would never pay $500, let alone $200 for Cotton.
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actual[/b] amount he paid? And I mean even then, who cares. Its his business, not mine. He doesn't owe me or anyone any kind of explanation of how he got it, or how much he paid for it. And I'm not disputing the fact that 500 is extreme for the game, but I know enough about the guy to know if a member here contacted him about it odds are fair he'd maybe let them have it for a lot cheaper then that I am sure, or if they met up with him at a convention. And I mean, hypothetically, if he had told you, or anyone else that was ragging on him that he would take lets say $240 or sumthin for it right then, would you have grabbed it? Did you even have the cash laying around anyway? Either way, for me, I don't care if its $150 or 250 or 500. I'd rather buy the PCE version. Its the same game, but far cheaper.
Yeah, he did say something about paying "over $100" for it, so $500 is a pretty extreme markup. And like I was saying, even $200-300 is extreme. I sold a mint sealed copy in a pimped out, 10-day auction six months ago and got $230 for it. He also implied that getting the price down to under $300 would require buying a bunch of his other over-priced junk for a quantity deal.
Also, it may be more then anything that he listed a high price because thats what it would take for him to let it go out of his own collection. Some people seem to have this perceived notion that his only interest in games is as a business, and its not. He plays and collects games too, just like anyone else here. I can vouch for this because I have done work for him prior. Not saying this IS his situation, but sometimes from a collectors point of view, its hard to let go of something. Maybe you'd be willing to, but only if a certain amount can be had, regardless of actual market value, simply because you know you may not get another one any time soon. It ends up being on of those situations where you are basically having to talk someone out of a game instead of simply looking at them as a seller. You have to make it worth it to him to let said item go. Sometimes no reasonable amount you offer will do.
Well, there may be reasons he's holding onto it that I'm not aware of, but he's already sold other copies, so it's unlikely he needs it for his collection.
The seller has the right to charge what they want. The buyer has the right to pay or not pay. Thats commerce folks. Your not entitled to the game, and bitching bout it cause you don't feel like paying the stated price is silly. Don't like it, save your breath, and move on. there will be other opportunities. Argue it any way you like till your blue in the face, its just that simple.
To be clear, my gripes don't come from an inability to buy the game. I have Cotton. I also have the PCE version. I also had a second sealed U.S. copy and I sold it. There aren't any remaining U.S. or PCE games that I particularly care to buy. The crazy prices for TG16 games these days don't directly effect me; they annoy me. I guess I just have a real problem with grown men thinking they deserve to make a living by leeching off one of my hobbies. With the internet we have no need for such middlemen. I can't fathom one single service or contribution to society provided by such parasites. Anyone could do what they do. They have no talent; they have no skill. They feed, they gouge, they inflate, they suck, they pussify America, and they're a waste of food.
*whew*
Time to make some tea.
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I guess I just have a real problem with grown men thinking they deserve to make a living by leeching off one of my hobbies
commerce is commerce. I highly doubt people are sitting around saying "how can i gouge vestcoat today". everyone wants to make a buck. there is always another copy of a game, being sold
by another seller. if your wasting that much thought and energy on your opinion of a person's pricing, a deep breath and tea may be in order.
I also would like to make the following point to keep this in perspective. I making an example here so, don't read to deep. If anyone here had X game that numerous people would be willing to
pay $400 for, is there anyone here that can honestly say they would let it go for only $50 as not to offend anyones personal view of pricing? Now its one thing to be a select community like
Pcefx were you give others with common bonds a break. But ebay is commerce plain and simple. supply and demand, fair or not is irrelevant.
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Emulation should have killed this type of gouging. But it didn't, if anything it made this stuff even more desirable just to have the actual copy instead of playing a digital one. Chalk another one where piracy actually helped people buy the stuff they download.
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I guess I just have a real problem with grown men thinking they deserve to make a living by leeching off one of my hobbies
commerce is commerce. I highly doubt people are sitting around saying "how can i gouge vestcoat today". everyone wants to make a buck. there is always another copy of a game, being sold
by another seller. if your wasting that much thought and energy on your opinion of a person's pricing, a deep breath and tea may be in order.
I also would like to make the following point to keep this in perspective. I making an example here so, don't read to deep. If anyone here had X game that numerous people would be willing to
pay $400 for, is there anyone here that can honestly say they would let it go for only $50 as not to offend anyones personal view of pricing? Now its one thing to be a select community like
Pcefx were you give others with common bonds a break. But ebay is commerce plain and simple. supply and demand, fair or not is irrelevant.
Not everything has to be in such extremes, but yeah, this does happen all the time here. A lot of these kinds of deals I've been involved in as a buyer or seller, that aren't fully public, I don't brag about afterward.
Even though as I said, it doesn't have to be as extreme as a $200 game selling for either $50 or $400, people are more and more frequently straight up giving away games for free. Including Shockman, whether you believe it to be a $40 game or a $150 game.
What people like vestcoat react more to is the non oblivious doing crooked things to manipulate the market. Like buying up evetything at or below current market price to ransom a game at an unatural price ir just straight up lying about a game in listings.
People like to use phrases like "free market", but in real business in North America there is no such thing. There are all kinds of laws and regulations in place designed to try to try to stop sellers from taking advantage of buyers.
You can say why discuss this type of stuff, but then why discuss anything else here? Why have such negative threads as "What stupid crap have sellers told you when buying Turbo items"? Why ever say anything bad about any game or about bad games?
If this is a hobby, then all of this interests various people. If you play games "jus' cuz", well that's cool too. But why tell other people what to do and ask why they are discussing a discussion that you also joined to discuss?
I'm just surprised that the gougers have managed to braineash so many buyers into a sellers perspective. When those of you who only concentrate on high end prices shop
for new regular products, do you also ignore evetything but the highest prices? I thought that the phrase "shopping around" meant the exact opposite for a buyer. There are stores that sell new games for $10 more than most, some that sell it for $10 less and a few where at leadt one of them is going to have it on sale for $20 - $30 less.
When someone asks where to buy it and what they should pay, do you send them to the $10 above average store and not let them know about the places they could find it on sale? Do you tell some other friend who stops them and does mention the sale places/price to shut up and not talk about those places/prices?
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Don't like it, save your breath, and move on.
Take a dose of your own medicine. If you deem the gouging thread (and others like it) a waste of time, don't read 'em.
But ebay is commerce plain and simple. supply and demand, fair or not is irrelevant.
You obviously don't understand the idea of gouging; the $500 Cotton was labeled as a gouge job because it is well above where supply and demand has previously set the price.
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If you deem the gouging thread (and others like it) a waste of time, don't read 'em.
This thread was not one of them, unless your goal is to hijack it and turn it into a hate ebay thread? Last I checked this was about a single game and its current going rate. As shown prior, unless you get lucky or have connections, expect to pay $40-50 for a loose, past that if you want one with a manual. Just how it is. People bitching about ebay does not change the fact that the odds are someone is more likely going to be able to grab a copy of Shockman off of ebay more then they are able to here or anywhere else any day of the week. Until a few people around here form some kinda of online Turbo deposit/store maybe that is full of stock and has controlled prices, that is simply how things are going to be, and nothing is going to change it.
Oh, and Black Tiger:
When someone asks where to buy it and what they should pay, do you send them to the $10 above average store and not let them know about the places they could find it on sale? Do you tell some other friend who stops them and does mention the sale places/price to shut up and not talk about those places/prices?
To be fair, YOU nor anyone else have yet to mention any other solid North American alternatives to Ebay that carry a steady supply of Turbo games, so that's like blaming others for your own shortcomings (like I said, where did you decide to take Ys 3 to? Oh thats right, you took it to where you'd get the most money...duh...). Also, just because Herc says its not worth getting upset over doesn't mean he's been resided or brainwashed into buying over priced stuff. It simply means he doesn't get emotional over shit that isn't life or death. Its rude of you to try to label him, or others for that matter, like that.
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Don't like it, save your breath, and move on.
Take a dose of your own medicine. If you deem the gouging thread (and others like it) a waste of time, don't read 'em.
But ebay is commerce plain and simple. supply and demand, fair or not is irrelevant.
You obviously don't understand the idea of gouging; the $500 Cotton was labeled as a gouge job because it is well above where supply and demand has previously set the price.
LOl, make it personal if you want, i never said the thread was a waste. I said getting as worked up as you are is a waste. I liked Black Tigers response, it seemed more reasonable and thought out for a discussion. do me a favor and only read the parts that you want to listen to, then get upset about it. Won't change my view. Commerce is commerce like it or lump it. Now we can discuss it or you can pant about it, either way is the same to me.
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You obviously don't understand the idea of gouging; the $500 Cotton was labeled as a gouge job because it is well above where supply and demand has previously set the price.
From what was posted in that thread, the most Cotton has reached on eBay is just over $200. It wasn't simply someone trying to get a lot of money for what they admitted is separate from their hobby (he recently sold another copy of Cotton). It was yet another attempt to trick buyers into raising perceived value even further.
What's scary is how effective this kind of bs is. In the same thread, someone was influenced enough inspute of the <$200 reports, to propose all chipping in together to offer the seller 50% above the highest reported eBay sold prices, just to donate it to soneone who already has it. Literally a kickstarter for higher eBay prices.
It's no different than someone listing a boxed Magical Chase after that recent $3250(?) sale for $7000 and it convinces someone to ask people to chip in $500 each to offer the seller $5000.
Pointing out this kind of misdirection and other tricks to artificially inflate the market beyond what people would naturally bid games up to is important since way too many people are too gullible. There's a hobby full of hip collectors who listen to others recomend buying games they've never heard and pay any kind random price because they think they're getting a deal. It's like when stores put an "on sale" sign on regular priced items and people buy it only because of perceived savings.
Most people here are reluctant to put together price guides because like all collectibles, there is so much variance in price combined with misc combibations of completeness and condition that affect different games differently. And in the end prices people read are only used to blindly purchase games without getting a feel for the market themselves or figuring out if they really have any genuine interest in a game or what it is really worth to them.
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doesn't get emotional over shit that isn't life or death.
Everybody gets emotional over mundane life. Ever been to a sports game? Watch a reality TV show?
There's a hobby full of hip collectors who listen to others recomend buying games they've never heard and pay any kind random price because they think they're getting a deal. It's like when stores put an "on sale" sign on regular priced items and people buy it only because of perceived savings.
Good points. I think another reason prices are so contentious is because Mer'cans, particularly dorky, male, videogame enthusiasts, are such proud little consumers that they'll refuse to believe they've ever been duped. Countless new collectors wash up here bragging about their insta-collection or trying to resell something and nothing drives them nuts like being told they got totally F'd in the A on what they thought were thrifty purchases. Their initial response is to quote a bunch of other inflated prices to try to convince us of the game's worth. Eventually they give that up and fall back on the "free market" and "who cares?".
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doesn't get emotional over shit that isn't life or death.
Everybody gets emotional over mundane life. Ever been to a sports game? Watch a reality TV show?
Lol I don't watch sports or reality tv shows. Bored to death comes to mind when I think of either things, and I agree, people get caught up in that crap. Way too caught up in it to be honest.
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This community is clearly divided right down the center on buying, selling, shipping, etc. So here is what you do:
You get together a representative sample of buyers and sellers in the community, and sit down and talk about whats fair within the gated community of PCEFX.
What is considered lowballing?
what is considered gouging?
what is considered fair value?
What is the margin of error?
And what factors determine the criteria above?
Does the guy that gives away a freebie before putting up a sale get a break? Does the guy that gives away freebies all the time have the right to sell for higher prices to compensate for
his generosity? Two people are selling the same game complete, one has a slight blemish on the manual one does not. The guy without the blemish, can he sell for alittle higher and not be
scrutinized for gouging, after all its worth more for its condition right? The guy with the blemish, is he required by community etiquette to sell for cheaper or face said scrutiny? The rules will
change once again depending on complete game, hucard only, yellowing, no yellowing, pristine manual, manual with wrinkles, etc. Its pretty obvious that there are a large number of people
with very different opinions on the matter or it would not keep coming up. So stop the cycle, come together, and lay down some ground work.
Anyone wanna jump me for trying to add some reason, go right ahead. Don't bother being proactive, keep complaining, wont solve anything. Don't like my ideas, come up with better ones
instead of ripping on mine. You got something solid to add, go for it, we can all benefit. Fix the problem here within the safety and confines of our gated community. Make it a buyers and
and sellers paradise for common people with common interests and goals. Attract new users, with more games and hardware to improve the selection of whats available. Otherwise Ebay and
global services like it will be your only choice like it or not, fair or not.
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This thread was not one of them, unless your goal is to hijack it and turn it into a hate ebay thread? Last I checked this was about a single game and its current going rate.
I assumed Herc was responding to the $500 Cotton, since that was what was being discussed right before his post and he didn't quote anything else to make me think otherwise. Even if he wasn't, it's pretty obvious he was talking about pricing in general and not solely about the current value of a single title.
I said getting as worked up as you are is a waste.
Who's worked up? I'll say it again: bitching about eBay gougers is for entertainment purposes only! I don't think anybody is frothing at the mouth over the injustice and working overtime on a coronary, nor are they on a crusade to change the world; it'd certainly be nice if we could change the gouging mind set, but I don't think any eBay sellers care what a handful of disgruntled forum members think.
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This thread was not one of them, unless your goal is to hijack it and turn it into a hate ebay thread? Last I checked this was about a single game and its current going rate.
I assumed Herc was responding to the $500 Cotton, since that was what was being discussed right before his post and he didn't quote anything else to make me think otherwise. Even if he wasn't, it's pretty obvious he was talking about pricing in general and not solely about the current value of a single title.
I said getting as worked up as you are is a waste.
Who's worked up? I'll say it again: bitching about eBay gougers is for entertainment purposes only! I don't think anybody is frothing at the mouth over the injustice and working overtime on a coronary, nor are they on a crusade to change the world; it'd certainly be nice if we could change the gouging mind set, but I don't think any eBay sellers care what a handful of disgruntled forum members think.
The worked up part was my mistake. it was in reference to someone else's comment. I was tired and got you confused with someone else. I was also talking in general as for some people these conversations seem to degrade into why ebay sucks thread of which there are plenty. once again my fault . I'm in total agreement with your last statement, which is why i would like to see a common set of "understood" ground rules for the regulars. Professor has been calling for a PCEFX turbo store for awhile now. I think its a great idea and would go a long way to sorting out alot of the questions i listed above. there are some really strong opinions on pricing, and will remain opinions until there is a general agreement of some kind among the members.
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Shockman is overpriced on ebay if you really wanna play it get he PCE version for $15
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Who's worked up?
I get pretty f*cking worked up. I do it for entertainment AND coronary purposes.
there are some really strong opinions on pricing, and will remain opinions until there is a general agreement of some kind among the members.
It would be nice, but impossible. Sometimes everyone agrees that a certain price is ridiculous and even free-market proponents like Canada and Bardoly get on board, but none of us agree 100% of the time. I usually see eye-to-eye with Black Tiger and Dragonmaster, but they've both posted price guides I disagree with. The only person who's 100% right 24/7 is Necromancer when he tells everyone to f*ck off. ;)
Even so, I don't think things are that bad. We've been over all this stuff before and after hashing it out we're generally happy to ignore our differences and get along. The problem is that old disagreements are being constantly agitated by an influx of newcomers. Every time the subject comes up, battle lines are redrawn and sides are taken.
The best solution would be abortions for some, miniature American flags for others....err...wait, i mean...
The best solution would be for one of the mods to post a giant sticky that says "WARNING: the PCEFX forums are home to both the f*ck Ebay Club and a 200+ page thread perpetually criticizing gougers. Certain members will relentlessly persecute gougers, real or imagined, as well as gouger sympathizers quoting ebay prices. Many members are long-time friends and it's not uncommon to cut deals and help each other out. Sellers in search of ebay profits and an anonymous "free market" free from criticism should face the fees and sell on ebay. Those searching for a price guide to measure penises or bask in the glory of their collection should also look elsewhere."
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Shockman is overpriced on ebay if you really wanna play it get he PCE version for $15
but eets in eeengliiiiiish.
and yeah it is, last year I got a CIB copy for $45, great condition too.
Traded the box, i think to Hoobs...
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The best solution would be for one of the mods to post a giant sticky that says "WARNING: the PCEFX forums are home to both the f*ck Ebay Club and a 200+ page thread perpetually criticizing gougers. Certain members will relentlessly persecute gougers, real or imagined, as well as gouger sympathizers quoting ebay prices. Many members are long-time friends and it's not uncommon to cut deals and help each other out. Sellers in search of ebay profits and an anonymous "free market" free from criticism should face the fees and sell on ebay. Those searching for a price guide to measure penises or bask in the glory of their collection should also look elsewhere."
Here you go (it hurts your eyes, but that's the point):
http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Slime_World/Slime_World_04.mp3
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BEST WARNING SIGN ANYWHERE EVER! this should be reposted often throughout the forum.
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BEST WARNING SIGN ANYWHERE EVER! this should be reposted often throughout the forum.
Seconded. (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/Themes/Pcenginefx/images/smilies.gif)
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The best solution would be for one of the mods to post a giant sticky that says "WARNING: the PCEFX forums are home to both the f*ck Ebay Club and a 200+ page thread perpetually criticizing gougers. Certain members will relentlessly persecute gougers, real or imagined, as well as gouger sympathizers quoting ebay prices. Many members are long-time friends and it's not uncommon to cut deals and help each other out. Sellers in search of ebay profits and an anonymous "free market" free from criticism should face the fees and sell on ebay. Those searching for a price guide to measure penises or bask in the glory of their collection should also look elsewhere."
Here you go (it hurts your eyes, but that's the point):
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/disclaimer.png) (http://junk.tg-16.com/audio/Slime_World/Slime_World_04.mp3)
Somehow you took my turd of hate and polished it into a diamond of (Blodia) love. Reposting that should save time and keep me from thinking too much. Thanks Esty!