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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Nando on February 07, 2013, 02:23:46 AM
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Src http://kotaku.com/5982205/its-time-for-video-games-to-finally-grow-up-by-doing-these-nine-things?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow
Make games for all: Time to invent interactive experiences for adults.
Change our paradigms. "We need to decide as an industry that violence and platforms are not the only way. We are in an industry where, if the main character doesn't hold a gun, designers don't know what to do." How interactive is the game, they'd wonder, he said. What do they do if they can't shoot?
He recalled pitching Indigo Prophecy, one of his earlier adventure games to an American games industry person. When he said the character didn't have a gun, they assumed the character drove a car or jumped on platforms.
ALSO: "Can we make games that are not based on systems?" As we get older, he said, adults don't have the time or interest in beating a computer, of mastering a system."
AND: Can the industry make games without guns?
'Buy crap and you will get more crap,' Cage says. 'Buy exciting and ambitious games and you will get more of them.'
The importance of meaning: What do we have to say? Most games, he said, have nothing to say. "That's a toy," he remarked. "Can we create games that have something to say, that carry an idea … that you can resonate with?" Authors are the kinds of people who come up with this stuff, he said. Let them in!
Games should use "real world themes." Let games talk about politics, about homosexuality, about anything from real world. "They should talk about people. They should talk about our world. They should talk about society." Films may try to do this, but games can put people in worlds that involve these issues. That's potent. Games that could do this would leave an imprint on you.
"Become accessible: Let's focus on minds, not on thumbs!" He wants games to focus on the thoughts and decisions of players, not on how fast or skilled they are at manipulating a controller.
Bring other talents on board.
Establish new relationships with Hollywood. Related to the idea above, he wants to see actors, smart creative people bringing their talents to games. And he thinks that the filmmaking masters of linear storytelling could collaborate with game designers to make a new kind of medium.
Changing our relationship with censorship. Cage said he has a censor looking over his shoulder when he makes games. The sense is that he can't do in games what people do in movies, that people believe that the interactivity of games makes them more problematic, that what he can do with sex and violence is curtailed. But he believes that interactivity doesn't make games more dangerous or in need of censorship. He believes games are as constrained in content now as films were in the 50s, though he also said that content he saw at the last E3 shocked him in actually going really far to the extreme. "Sometimes we go too far and behave like stupid teenagers ourselves. We should stop doing this."
The role of press, from reviewers to critics. On one side there are clever people who analyze the industry, he said. On the other side of the spectrum are people giving scores or giving a 5/10 because of a camera bug or bad AI. "I don't think this is press," he said. "Where is the analysis?." He wants better criticism. He yearns for a gaming equivalent of the Cahiers du Cinéma.
The importance of gamers. He considers buying a game to be a vote. "Buy crap and you will get more crap. Buy exciting and ambitious games and you will get more of them."
Cage thinks the future will see a rise of a better digital entertainment. He hopes it will be accessible to all and will be open to themes and genres relevant to society. It will be based on a journey, not a challenge and will be cross-platform so people can play at home, on the go … anywhere. "This is my hope for the industry," he said. "This is a medium I love."
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As usual, Kotaku is f*cking retarded.
Make games for all: Time to invent interactive experiences for adults.
This has been happening since the 80s. Hell, anyone ever play Phantasmagoria in the 90s? f*ckin duhrrr.
Change our paradigms. "We need to decide as an industry that violence and platforms are not the only way. We are in an industry where, if the main character doesn't hold a gun, designers don't know what to do." How interactive is the game, they'd wonder, he said. What do they do if they can't shoot?
He recalled pitching Indigo Prophecy, one of his earlier adventure games to an American games industry person. When he said the character didn't have a gun, they assumed the character drove a car or jumped on platforms.
Again, this has been happening since the 80s. Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar, anyone? There's no bad guy. The whole point of the game is to become the paragon of everything right in the world.
ALSO: "Can we make games that are not based on systems?" As we get older, he said, adults don't have the time or interest in beating a computer, of mastering a system."
AND: Can the industry make games without guns?
FFS, really? How ignorant can you be. Maybe he should reword this to: "Can the 3 dumbass studios in USA stop rehashing Call of Duty, Halo, and Gears of War every year, ad naseum?"
I skipped a majority of the points again, because, see: 1980s/Early 90s games.
Is this author some f*ckin fresh out of highschool dumbass that's never played anything pre-N64? Christ on toast, man.
Establish new relationships with Hollywood. Related to the idea above, he wants to see actors, smart creative people bringing their talents to games. And he thinks that the filmmaking masters of linear storytelling could collaborate with game designers to make a new kind of medium.
Lol? really? First, games need to move away from the red carpet hollywood shit and back to how they were.
Second, as if hollywood is the only place where creative minds exist. Again, Ultima, it happened already. Serpent Isle.
f*ck this guy. Ima hit him.
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Breakthroughs in design rarely come from this kind of top-down reciting of new ideals. They usually come through either new technology emerging, or from bottom-up branching off and refinement of the best existing ways.
Also, some of the stuff he said reminded me of this:
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u305/sirsinnes/calvin_bat-fax_zpse40202f5.png)
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This article is about as worthless as it gets. Has this tool ever played something like Little Big Planet, Guitar Hero, DDR, Super Monkeyball, or any of a million puzzle and sports games? And why should games always have a message? Most tv shows and movies don't either (and 95% of 'em are utter crap, so who'd want those clowns involved in games?), but that's okay because they're entertainment and not a crusade.
There certainly are games that deliver what he's asking for, and it doesn't matter if the best sellers are CoD or GTA. It's like pissing and moaning about the car industry being anti-driver because the best sellers are boring Camrys, Civics and F150s, completely ignoring all the fun cars simply because they sell in small numbers.
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Well, the guy made Heavy Rain.
That says alot about him as a person, anyway.
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Oh, he's a Frenchy. That explains a lot. :mrgreen:
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I posted on Kataoatkatkatkou
let the flames begin.
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I posted on Kataoatkatkatkou
let the flames begin.
YES!
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no replies. laaaaame
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Make games for all: Time to invent interactive experiences for adults.
Shadows of the Colossus. End of story.
Look, for every "The Dark Knight," there is going to be 6 crappy Michael Bay Transformer movies. Likewise, for every great moving video game, like Shadows of the Colossus, there are going to be 100 shitty FPS war games, like "Call of Battlefield: More Warfare #17." The reason is two fold. #1, Those bubble-gum-esque video games and movies sell, and they sell really really well. #2, Video games, like... everything in this world, pretty much follows Sturgeon's Law, which states that 90% of anything is crap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law
You can't expect academy award level stories from every video game, much like you can't expect academy award level stories from every movie. This guy's head is up his own ass, with self-importance.
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People will never stop buying crap no matter what mainly due to uninformed gift givers (relatives), small children, and sheep. Especially with Nintendo putting out tons of shovelware and Ps3 & Xbox releasing reiterations of the same games every year.
I did like the one comment someone wrote "why don't you make an actual game before telling us what to do David?" in an attempt at bashing Heavy Rain. (The guy did make actual games beforehand just fyi I just enjoyed his trollbait).
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That is a pretty funny statement though.
Heavy Rain sucked, and the guys comments are rife with "I never f*ckin' played games in the DOS era" caliber reasonings.
f*ck EM
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I can't stand this guy. He always comes out and spouts bullshit.
That said, I liked Heavy Rain. A lot. But then, I'm a big fan of crime stories.
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no replies. laaaaame
:(
Certainly seems very console directed on his end.
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What? Video games today are a f*cking saint!
(http://i.minus.com/iFYnd0TDz5hzd.gif)
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and now Warren Spector is on ze Soap Box
http://kotaku.com/5982586/warren-spector-doesnt-think-lollipop-chainsaw-should-have-been-made?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow
"I have no interest in guys who wear armor and swing big swords. I have been the last space marine between earth and an alien invasion. I really just don't need to go there anymore. I want content that is relevant to my life, that is relevant to me, that is set in the real world….
"If we're going to reach a broader audience, we have to stop thinking about that audience strictly in terms of teenage boys or even teenage girls. We need to think about things that are relevant to normal humans and not just the geeks we used to be."
He went on to commend Heavy Rain and The Walking Dead as two of the best experiences he's had in gaming in a while. Both games made the quotidian interesting. Both games were about real emotions and could make even a simple meal a gripping interactive experience.
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"Geeks that we used to be"
Get bent, Warren.
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I replied.
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f*ck all those guys. In a lot of ways video games haven't changed a bit since the Famicom era.
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I just find it annoying when these washed up old gimps start dictating what needs to happen to games.
Yknow what games need?
Less a$$holes making them.
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Yknow what games need?
Less a$$holes making them.
God damn honest truth right there! So quoted!
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Within the nonsense, Spector's got a bit of a point, though. Enough with the alien marine shit. There are so many me-too, carbon-copy titles out there, and to wish for innovation and creativity isn't a bad thing.
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That wasn't his point though.
His point was he's a big boy now and he wants to play Warren Spector's Life: The game. Now with more real-life-applicable content.
AKA: The dickhead is too stupid to go outside and enjoy life and would rather play video games emulating real life.
Meanwhile, everyone else wants to escape real life and blow the f*ck out of some aliens.
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Yeah, I guess I can see that.
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That wasn't his point though.
His point was he's a big boy now and he wants to play Warren Spector's Life: The game. Now with more real-life-applicable content.
AKA: The dickhead is too stupid to go outside and enjoy life and would rather play video games emulating real life.
Meanwhile, everyone else wants to escape real life and blow the f*ck out of some aliens.
HAHAHAHAH
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Meanwhile, everyone else wants to escape real life and blow the f*ck out of some aliens.
Or f*ck and blow some aliens. Giggitty.
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Meanwhile, everyone else wants to escape real life and blow the f*ck out of some aliens.
Or f*ck and blow some aliens. Giggitty.
Hey man, who doesn't want to get all up in 6 titties.
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Hey man, who doesn't want to get all up in 6 titties.
Dave Lister, due to his limited options. :mrgreen:
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Warren is jealous and wishes he could put out a game as good as Lollipop Chainsaw. Since when was it a game to take seriously. Why does it have to be some engrossing life drama shit. I hate new games but holy hell was Lollipop Chainsaw some over the top mindless fun. It was also the first "next gen" game I played and beat in...well...years.
Also, so basically he wants the game industry to just make games to please him and screw everyone else.
I also guess he never played Stretch Panic, Katamari, Gitarooman....
JJ & Jeff!
(http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/level1-jjandjeff1.jpg)
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Warren is just bitter because Disney shut his studio down.
I'm pretty sure David Cage preached this before, around the time Indigo Prophecy was released. David Jaffe posted a long counter argument to this on Twitter, which I largely agree with. He clearly wants to work in film, but feels stuck in the games industry for some reason, and is lashing out because no one bought Heavy Rain. We need more people making games who genuinely love games, and less movie-industry rejects whining about them.
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So true. When the game industry started trying to "give us a movie experience" is when it all started to go to down the tubes. Which added to the high production costs we have now, and companies closing their doors.
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... is lashing out because no one bought Heavy Rain.
3.7 million 'no ones' bought it, putting it in the top 20 best selling PS3 titles list.
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I thought about this a bit more over the weekend. First off, let me say that I'm not agreeing with Cage's blanket assessment of the industry. Fantasy is great and is why a lot of people play games. However...
I love fantasy and action movies as well. I also love escapism in my music; some forms of metal are great examples of this. However, in both movies and music, some of the best experiences I've had are ones with powerful plots/lyrics that appeal to me in ways that I can relate to in my every day life and are relevant to me as a human being and the way I look at life.
So I don't think it should be written off altogether that sometimes, perhaps it would be nice to have greater variety in games, and that some of these experiences should feature those types of characteristics. Furthermore, I don't know that either of them are saying that ALL games need to follow this path. Rather, that it would be nice if not all games (generalization, of course) followed the fantasy "grab a laser gun and/or giant sword and kill aliens/orcs" route.
/Devil's Advocate
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... is lashing out because no one bought Heavy Rain.
3.7 million 'no ones' bought it, putting it in the top 20 best selling PS3 titles list.
He means noone liked it after they bought it.
:)
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*Except for me.
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Make games for all
We already do, and have since the dawn of video games.
Change our paradigms
Yes, because Tetris and Mario Party and Angry Birds and Puzzle Quest and a zillion other games are about guns and violence and platforming... idiot.
'Buy crap and you will get more crap,' Cage says. 'Buy exciting and ambitious games and you will get more of them.'
No shit, Sherlock... it's called "supply and demand". Economics 101, motherf*cker.
The importance of meaning
Authors are already "in", dumbass. Not all of us who produce video games want to make the next COD. And plenty of games already use real-world themes, characters, locations, etc. Ever played Clock Tower? Carmen San Diego? Parasite Eve? Wolfenstein 3D? etc etc etc etc.......?
"Become accessible: Let's focus on minds, not on thumbs!"
Both are fine, and both concepts are explored in the video game world already. How about we focus on FUN, eh douchebag?
Bring other talents on board.
This happens all the time... just maybe not in his studio.
Establish new relationships with Hollywood
f*ck this idea, you flatulent moron. The last thing the video gaming world needs is to be infected with Hollywood's ideals and models. It's bad enough that so many games these days are saturated with real-world advertising... it doesn't need to be injected with Hollywood's stale memes.
Changing our relationship with censorship
For once... he says something I agree with. Censorship sucks, and whenever I make a game for a platform where it's not an issue, I do whatever I please. I have to censor the Xbox 360 version of "Paradox Girl" because it has topless parts in the PC original. I hate that I have to do that.
The role of press
Another point that can be partially agreed on, but this leaves a lot open to perception. If games are getting 5/10 for technical flaws, that is perfectly legit. I don't care how good your game looks or sounds... if it plays like shit, it IS shit, so suck it up, cupcake.
The importance of gamers
No shit, Sherlock... gamers are your bread and butter. If you make shit they won't buy, you're f*cked... it doesn't matter how technologically advanced your game is, how original it is, or how much time you spent perfecting a technique... if no one wants it, no one wants it. Period.
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That wasn't his point though.
His point was he's a big boy now and he wants to play Warren Spector's Life: The game. Now with more real-life-applicable content.
AKA: The dickhead is too stupid to go outside and enjoy life and would rather play video games emulating real life.
Meanwhile, everyone else wants to escape real life and blow the f*ck out of some aliens.
No shit!!