PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Sales & Trades => Topic started by: Phase on April 01, 2013, 12:22:03 PM
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Got a US Turbo Duo recently off of craigslist but its missing the HuCard door. ](*,) I've had a TG16 since 92 and always wanted a Duo :)
Wondering if someone has a spare from a broken system they would want to sell?
Also what would be a fair price for one? I was thinking around 25 bucks?
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Im sure someone here can hook ya up.
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I dunno... I think there are a few members here also looking for that cover. I know there is some interest in having one manufactured much like the replacement hu-cases. Either way, you've come to the right place to pursue your quest! If anyone can help you out, you'll find them here. :)
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I dunno... I think there are a few members here also looking for that cover. I know there is some interest in having one manufactured much like the replacement hu-cases. Either way, you've come to the right place to pursue your quest! If anyone can help you out, you'll find them here. :)
Yeah I've been looking for a while . . . I am trying to get a good cad image going for possibly making a few repos but we'll see they have a couple small parts that have been pain . . . plus I;ve never used CAD and relying on others.
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If I can find my old copy (ahem) of SolidWorks 2005, I could probably draw it up no problem.
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Sounds like they are pretty scarce :(
Are you thinking of 3d printing some or would making a mold from an original be better?
Would it be hard to match the plastic color?
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Off topic questions- Are US duo controllers also pretty rare? I'm having a hard time finding any.
Has any one ever made a TG16 to Duo controller converter? or are they different other than the plug size?
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Has any one ever made a TG16 to Duo controller converter? or are they different other than the plug size?
tgodfrey makes them, I have purchased from him and they work nicely.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/PCE_TG16_adapter.jpg)
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Sounds like they are pretty scarce :(
Are you thinking of 3d printing some or would making a mold from an original be better?
Would it be hard to match the plastic color?
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Off topic questions- Are US duo controllers also pretty rare? I'm having a hard time finding any.
Has any one ever made a TG16 to Duo controller converter? or are they different other than the plug size?
TheOldMAn was going to help me with this, He just needs the model. Blue that would be helpful if you could come up with something, we were having issues with the little clip on the side. The 3d printing, mold thing is TBD, color shouldn't be too much of an issue, but we'll see.
To answer your controller issue - PCE controllers are the same, and plentiful. If not the converters are easy to find, TG's are excellent and very reasonably priced as esteban pointd out. :)
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The fragile nature of anything 3D printed is going to make the hinge extremely fragile. Its also going to be rough textured, which isn't very cool.
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Printed ABS isn't fragile at all. Its a bit flexible, which will probably help with the hinge pins.
There are various ways of treating printed pieces, and you can get a very smooth glossy finish if you put the time into it.
However, matching the color could be a real pain...
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If cosmetics aren't a issue, why not try to see if there is a PC Engine Duo cover available? Or a Duo-R/RX and spray paint it black?
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The R/RX lid is completely different.
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I am still looking for a pc-engine duo cover- haven't found one yet.
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Would you guys like clear/transparent HuCard Slot Doors, for all PCE and TG16 Systems?
The plastic would be somewhat soft and flexible (not shatter/scratch prone like acrylic).
Or would you prefer color-matched Hucard Slot Doors?
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A familiar face from the cover project :)
Hmm personally I'd rather have the color be the same as the original.
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Hey ya'll, im also looking for a duo hucard door. if anybody has an extra to sell...
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Are there only two versions of the HuCard Door?
(http://www.seymoronion.com/_Work_Area/HuCard_Doors.jpg)
Is the PCE Duo-R and PCE Duo-RX the same color?
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Yeah Seymour the usa duo is the same as the orginal pce duo. Then you have the r and rx in white. Ideally a matching color one would be produced. If you could help out on making these at a reasonable price that would be awesome.
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I know of a rapid prototyper up in Dallas, that should be able to make the black ones (color matched) for me.
If I have them make about one thousand, (with a small aluminum injection mold) I could sell em for about $2 USD each.
Shipping (one of em) to a USA address would cost $1.69, so the total Domestic price, for just one, would be under four bucks.
If ya'll like me to look into getting the black versions made, (and confirm pricing) you can e-mail me a CAD File, and I'll run it by the guys up in Dallas, to get a quote.
I'd also need to borrow a black HuCard Door, for the Color Matching. :wink:
Edited To Add: A cheaper alternative might be to use one of your 3D Printed Doors, to make some silicon molds, that you would then fill with an ABS-Like Resin.
Depending on the resin, it could be more rugged, and cheaper, than straight 3D-Prints.
It would take some experimentation to get the color just right, but it's still doable.
However, that's something you guys would have to do, as I don't have any experience with silicon molds.
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Would it be easier to just silicon mold an original? whenever I see pictures the object always seems to come out clean and undamaged.
Then again I've never done any molds myself :-k
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Would it be easier to just silicon mold an original? whenever I see pictures the object always seems to come out clean and undamaged.
Then again I've never done any molds myself :-k
Do'h!
Yeah, it would be far simpler to use an origonal to make the silicon mold.
Good catch :wink:
From what I've read, and seen, the silicone shouldn't stick to the origonal part at all; just make sure it's nice and clean.
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Werent the Duo R and RX a slightly different color? I thought I read the RX had a tint of purple shade to it.
The controller adapters that Esteban posts is one of the ones I make. I make them in a few different styles and as you can see he has the white one, PCE controller TG16 console adapter. I am about to make another run of them so watch the FS section here in the next day or so.
NEC made a TG16 controller to Duo console adapter. You will see them on ebay but they have gotten rather high priced. I make those as well as PC engine controller to TG console adapters.
Terry
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Cool, sounds good. :)
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From my expeiences, trying to make HuCard shells....
Would it be easier to just silicon mold an original?
Seems like it would be. But silicon shrinks by roughly 10% as it dries :(
whenever I see pictures the object always seems to come out clean and undamaged.
Depends on what you mold it with, and how you mold it. I never had anything come out that didn't need
touched-up in some way, though.
Just out of curiosity, though, what would you use as a medium to fill the mold with? It would almost have to be a resin compound, and you would need a 2-piece mold to get the curve correct on the door.....
Please note: I'm not saying it couldn't be done. For someone with lots of experience, it probably would be relatively trivial. But in 3 months of experimenting with it, I couldn't even get a correct sized, perfectly flat HuCard blank :(
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Are there only two versions of the HuCard Door?
(http://www.seymoronion.com/_Work_Area/HuCard_Doors.jpg)
Is the PCE Duo-R and PCE Duo-RX the same color?
The one on the right isn't "USA" its just "original black Duo". There is an identical JP part on the original PC Engine Duo.
At this point there are no white Duos that are exactly the same color. :)
It doesn't matter though. Nobody needs a white Duo lid anyway.
IMO since the lid doesn't actually do anything important at all, cosmetics are the only thing that matters. If it doesn't look exactly like the real thing there isn't any point in making it. Rapid prototype stuff will have sand paper texture that will require 100 hours of polishing and sanding and painting to approximate the original. Additionally, its going to be fragile at the hinge. Even installing it without breaking it could be tough since it has to be squeezed a bit. Now, 3D printing is advancing every day so things could change with the next generation of stuff, but I deal with RP parts at work quite often and you have to be really careful with the stuff.
Cold cast resin isn't going to work either. The texture would be way better, but you still have fragility and color issues.
Therefore, it should be a IP part that that's going to cost some bucks, especially since probably only 20 people in world want one.
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This is the first I heard that an Aluminum Injection Mold can't produce a smooth part; perhaps you are talking about STL or another form of 3D Printing?
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This is the first I heard that an Aluminum Injection Mold can't produce a smooth part.....
That's not what I said. The reference was to silicon molds, which in fact do shrink and peel, especially with multiple uses. Never tried aluminum injection molds, so I can't say how well they work (though I asume it would be fine, since that's how some plastic parts are originally created)
... perhaps you are talking about STL or another form of 3D Printing?
STL is a file format for 3d models. They get sliced and turned into machine commands for a 3d printer.
3d printers do an acceptable job of producing parts, but they too have to be cleaned up and finished.
Not to mention, they take a long time for the actual printing.
Rapid prototype stuff will have sand paper texture that will require 100 hours of polishing and sanding and painting to approximate the original. Additionally, its going to be fragile at the hinge. Even installing it without breaking it could be tough since it has to be squeezed a bit.
The finish can be done in less than 1/2 hour. It does not require 100s of hours of polishing, etc, if you are working in ABS plastic. 5 minutes or less in an acetone vapor bath, plus time to dry.
Anything you make is going to be fragile at the hinge joint. The little nubbies are prone to breakage, no matter how the part is made. ABS is a bit more forgiving than some of the harder plastics, though. Like I said before, its a bit more flexible.
I deal with RP parts at work quite often and you have to be really careful with the stuff.
What kind? Sintered metal? Fused thermoplastic? Something else?
Yes, rapid prototype parts can be breakable, depending on how they are made. That does not mean they have to be, though. Done right, small runs can be as durable as the orginal - it is just plastic. Injection molding does not change the plastics properties.
And just for the record: there are several kickstarters gong on right now to produce a filament making machine from raw ABS pellets and colorants, so people are no longer limited to the 'stock' colors. Someone with a good eye for color could probably match the slight purple tint the Duo-R has.
[on a personal note: I'm Cheap. ABS filament is ~$50 for 2Kg, which would probably be more than enough to make 20 doors. If you go the color-your-own filament route, it costs about $10 in materials to make the same 2Kg, since raw pellets are cheaper. Maybe I'll steal Arkhans door and model it, just to see...]
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IP parts and RP parts have different strength qualities even if made from the same plastic for the same reason that parts made from metal have different properties depending on weather they were cast, forged, machined from billet, powder formed, or banged out with a hammer and anvil.
The fragile nature of the hinge means that the material is more important, not less. Just because its easy to break you shouldn't say, "f*ck it, use whatever, it's going to break anyway." You should use the strongest process possible to help prevent breakage.
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IMO since the lid doesn't actually do anything important at all, cosmetics are the only thing that matters. If it doesn't look exactly like the real thing there isn't any point in making it. Rapid prototype stuff will have sand paper texture that will require 100 hours of polishing and sanding and painting to approximate the original. Additionally, its going to be fragile at the hinge. Even installing it without breaking it could be tough since it has to be squeezed a bit. Now, 3D printing is advancing every day so things could change with the next generation of stuff, but I deal with RP parts at work quite often and you have to be really careful with the stuff.
Ehh, it does keep dust out of the Duo card slot. It has a purpose, just not a critical one. Even if it were miscolored and made on a 3D printer, I'd be interested in a door for my Duo that I broke the door off of years ago trying to jam a Kisado into.
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Therefore, it should be a IP part that that's going to cost some bucks, especially since probably only 20 people in world want one.
I think there are probably a few more than 20. I count 1 active, and 2 completed with no door on ebay. If we say that ebay accounts for 50% of sales, that means that there are 6 people every 3 months that are in need of a Duo door, or 24 per year. If there were 20 active forum members who needed one, it wouldn't be ridiculous to assume that you could get rid of 50 in a year. You'd have to sell them on ebay to get wider exposure, but it would be a service to all turbo collectors, not just the ones on this forum.
At least, that is my analysis. Hopefully that helps whoever makes them.
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Sorry about the aluminum mold assumption thing, and for writing STL instead of FDM.
I'd like to blame a lack of sleep, coupled with a marathon of watching vocaloid vids on youtube, for my misread,
but then again, that's kinda a normal day for me. :P
That acetone vapor method for smoothing 3D Printed stuff; you know, I recall reading something about that recently.
It looked very promising, albeit somewhat dangerous; although you know what you are doing, so it shouldn't be an issue.
If ya'll can make small quantities of the doors, without having to invest a bunch of $, that would be ideal.
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Therefore, it should be a IP part that that's going to cost some bucks, especially since probably only 20 people in world want one.
I think there are probably a few more than 20. I count 1 active, and 2 completed with no door on ebay. If we say that ebay accounts for 50% of sales, that means that there are 6 people every 3 months that are in need of a Duo door, or 24 per year. If there were 20 active forum members who needed one, it wouldn't be ridiculous to assume that you could get rid of 50 in a year. You'd have to sell them on ebay to get wider exposure, but it would be a service to all turbo collectors, not just the ones on this forum.
At least, that is my analysis. Hopefully that helps whoever makes them.
You posted this as i was writing my reply... :P
I'll add this, to help inspire/promote alternative solutions to making the doors, that won't require injection molding.
I'll set aside $200, from my IRS Refund, to buy up to $200 worth of them from you.
I'll resell em on my website, and also on eBay (so you won't have to deal with filling online orders, if that's something you don't like to do),
and give full credit to you.
I won't do a crazy markup, just enough to cover transaction fees, FVF's, and listing fees.
If yall can keep the cost-per-door to under $5 each, making them by hand, that'd be at least 40 doors.
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I have no interest in mass-producing parts for people who are going to use them to repair machines, just so they can re-sell them as 'complete' for a higher price to other people.
With that out of the way, what we really need is a good model for the door. I'm willing to put in the time to make the model, and print prototypes to make sure it works. Unfortunately, I don't have a sample door to make the model from.
Here's the scenario I'd -like- to see happen, though....
We get a sample door (and one with a broken hinge pin should be fine) and make a model from it. After a few attempts, we print one that actually works, so we lessen our chances of a major snafu.
At that point, we nudge someone with a cnc machine (Where's Tom?) to make an aluminum mold. It shouldn't take too many attempts to get that right; from what I've seen (though I'm not an expert at this) we would only need to re-slice the model for use on a cutting machine.
Once we have a mold, we can find someone to do the actual injection molding. Note that most of the cost of doing this is in the mold design and creation, which we would already have. So the actual part production should be really cheap.
I've thought about this quite a bit, to make the HuCard carriers. Assuming things work out right in RL, I may go ahead and see what I can find in a cheap home-style injection molder. Ideally, I could use a silicon mold to do that, but I haven't had any success with it - yet. I definately can't afford the $2K+ for a cnc machine just to make molds for plastic parts :(
So, who wants to step up and act as project coordinator to make this happen?
More importantly, who has a door they would be willing to donate?
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I can assist in the design of he mold. I did injection mold making for several years. I just need some software...
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I know a guy with a 3 axis CNC mill. It's been a while since he did any work for me but I could probably talk him into making the mold if the file is complete.
My concern though, if you haven't done so already, do you know EXACTLY how to make the mold so that the place with the IP machine can actually use it? I'd hate to waste time making a useless mold.
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Well the first step before any mold can be designed is to draw up a correct 3d model of the part itself. Then we can figure out our target material and calculate shrink values etc. From there designing the mold for such a simple part wont take too much to do.
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All that is needed to prevent any problems with people selling them as original doors is to add something to them to differentiate them from the original. If you intend to make them as close to original as possible, add an inscription to the underside of the door that dictates it as a non-original. Preferable as a part of the mold itself to prevent tampering or hiding said marking.
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Molding such an inscription would be no trouble.
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I'll give up my beloved PCE door to be a donator. And I'll coordinate as much as I can if no one else wants to. And yeah we would clearly want to make them diffrent enough to not be mistaken as orginal.
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Hmm, imo if its changed visually too much I don't think people will even want them plus it kind of defeats the purpose of making it.
It could have something like 'Reproduction Door' imprinted on the underside. But because some dealer may try and sell for a higher price on ebay should that ruin it for people who just want to replace their broken or lost door or if they bought one that didn't have a door.
The only thing I can think of would be to take the waves out of the line on top, so you would just have a strait line that goes across the door.
But then most people new to the duo wouldn't know the difference anyway. Plus I think us folks that want a repro door would just prefer it to look like the original.
As long as we make sure that these are a quality product that have similar or better durability than the originals I don't see making them look the same being a problem.
What do you guys think?
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Idk yet, but for arguments sake the outside would match the Duo as close as possible, any changes would be added to the underside and be only noticable if looking for it, probably somekind of a simple imprint, mark, or similar. It may even be that the repos are diffrent enough on thier own. besides if someone wanted to they could recreate it as we are. (this would really just be to keep honest people honest and give people a refrence on what a repo would look like, i.e a link it back to the forums here) Although this is a mute point really, as we would not be making this as a mass reproduction, this would be a small run for Active members here only, for those just looking to replace a missing door. Also a Duo without door goes for just as much with one these days anyway.
I'm going to take the lead coordinating everything, with the oldman's and hopefully blue's help:
That whole discussion must come later however, and shall be mentioned no more by me until we have are ready to produce.
1st step is going to be taking the door I have and doing some measurment grabing, drawing, picture taking. I'll update as soon as I have something worth while.
2nd Step will be the modeling.
* Note these 2 steps are not exactly simple steps and can be time consuming, please expect a bit before I have something to update. Basically as blue and theoldman have stated, without a good model and mold this project won't go anywhere, and we might have to revisit said steps more than once later in the project.
Also will be making a non-WTB thread for the project soon.
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=14466.0
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As I said a good cad model of the door isnthe first step. After that we could get quotes on having the mold made. I think there are some low production models of the DME MUD mold base that would work perfectly. Theyre small and cheap.
http://www.dme.net/dme/products/quick_change_sys.html
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Creating a Replacement Hu-Card Door For the Turbo/PCE Duo
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=14466.0