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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: vestcoat on March 12, 2006, 12:23:05 PM
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: vestcoat on March 12, 2006, 12:23:05 PM
I should have asked this before buying one, but what do you guys think?
It's in the mail right now with a a copy of Aldynes. I picked one up because i was worried about how Supergrafx auctions seem to be getting more and more expensive these days and also because I wanted to start assembling a back-up system. is it worth tracking down a copy of 1941? Am i correct in my understanding that Battle Ace sucks?
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: rolins on March 12, 2006, 12:40:36 PM
I've never owned a SGX, but buying one has crossed my mind. The reason why I never bought one is because it's tough to find a Super CD unit w/ the right connector cable.
You won't be disappointed with Aldynes. I've played it on ME and I can understand all the great reviews about it. If you do get a SGX the only other game I would consider is Daimakaimura.
1941 is a step up compared to 1943 Kai, but I think they both stink. Actually, I hate all the console versions of 19XX series, irritating music/sfx and gameplay.
Still, played them on an emulator and decide for yourself.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Bonknuts on March 12, 2006, 03:44:02 PM
1941 is a great game IMO. The graphics are pretty good, until the later levels were they degrade - probably because its only 8megs. The music is actually good considering the arcade music was average at best (think generic Adlib sound channels), so I actually prefer the chip music - its catchy. The playablility/controls are great. I found the game to be much better than 1943, but then again I didn't play 1943 back in the day.
The Super CDROM2 unit goes for $100-155. There is an online vendor that has a used boxed Super CDROM2 unit for $155. Mine didn't come with the power cord, so I had to look around for a correct voltage AC adapter, then look for a AC that had a plug that actually fits. I found both at second hand stores. I ended up making one AC from two.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Keranu on March 12, 2006, 04:49:56 PM
I don't own a SuperGrafx, but from the small handful of games it has (which I have played via emulator), they are all pretty decent, Granzort being my favorite probably. I'd recommend one if you really want to try that handful of games and have a back up unit to play PCE games, not to mention a really interesting looking machine and a cool gem to have in your collection to impress people with.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: td741 on March 13, 2006, 02:45:13 AM
My SGX + SCD replaced my old duo as my turbo system.
I've got pretty much all of the SGX game (except Darius Alpha).
My memory on the SGX games is a little foggy as I don't get much time to play games anymore. However, from what I can recall I'd rate the games in the following order:
1941 Aldynes Ghouls and Ghosts Grand Zort (Darius Plus) Battle Ace
Battle Ace isn't bad. It's just an afterburner-ish-type game.
Let's see, 1941 and Aldynes are games that probably would not have been quite as possible on the PCEngine. Both games seem to have this sense of speed that I don't think I've experienced on any PCE/Turbo games before.
Title: Ghouls and Ghosts all the way
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on March 13, 2006, 04:44:03 AM
gotta get Ghouls and Ghosts. All the way dude. The game is absolutley perfect. Awesome grafx, extremely difficult game. A MUST HAVE.
Then of course you can play all Hucard stuff on it, and then get the CD add on. Good for you man, You'll get plenty of sweet action out of your purchase!!
Rock On!!!
TurboSage
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: vestcoat on March 13, 2006, 05:28:16 AM
thanks guys. Anyone know where i can get 1941 for less than one hundred dollars?
I reckon i'll pick up Ghouls and Ghosts as soon as possible. It's embarrassing, but the only version i've ever played is on the SMS. I think it's a great game though.
Stupid question, but will the AC adapter that comes with the deck work in the US? i've never used an import system before.
Quote from: "rolins"
I've never owned a SGX, but buying one has crossed my mind. The reason why I never bought one is because it's tough to find a Super CD unit w/ the right connector cable.
are you referring to the ac adapter or is there a cable you need to connect a SGX to the SCD unit? I was under the impression that the SGX just had a big port and you lock them together. i know you do need an adapter to connect the supergrafx to the original pce cd-rom players (Edit: Oh yeah, the RAU-30. Thank you Compatibility Guide!)
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: rolins on March 13, 2006, 05:37:14 AM
Yeah, I was referring to the RAU-30 adapter. It suppose to connect the SGX to the cd-rom2 unit, but this where I'm confused. Do you need this cable to connect it to the SuperCD unit?
Edit:
Scratch out my last question. I found a pic with the SGX w/ SCD unit. I guess the cable isn't needed.
Title: Re: Ghouls and Ghosts all the way
Post by: handygrafx on March 13, 2006, 12:35:00 PM
Quote from: "turbo_sage"
gotta get Ghouls and Ghosts. All the way dude. The game is absolutley perfect. Awesome grafx, extremely difficult game. A MUST HAVE.
Then of course you can play all Hucard stuff on it, and then get the CD add on. Good for you man, You'll get plenty of sweet action out of your purchase!!
Rock On!!!
TurboSage
SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts is good, but in no way is it anywhere near 'arcade perfect'. It is not even almost identical to the arcade, like the X68000, Saturn, PS1, PS2 and Xbox versions are.
here's a comparison of SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts (1990) vs the CPS Arcade original (1988)
does SuperGrafx (http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/GnG_SGX3.png)
look the same as Arcade? (http://www.skytopia.com/games/arcade/compare/gg_6.png)
the 'arcade perfect' (not) SuperGrafx (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5889/sgxghoulsbridge4fo.jpg)
vs Arcade (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6338/ghoulsbridge6wx.jpg)(look at the swamp background in the distance)
Arcade stage 3-2 (http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/images/10/1052657901.jpg)(Arcade stone monsters have claws, but not on SuperGrafx. the clouds are much better too)
SuperGrafx (http://www.photodump.com/direct/edgemagazine/sgxghoulsCrystal(600x450).jpg)(looks somewhat close to arcade in this particular comparison (unlike others) but notice the blockier, less intricately detailed roots on the right and missing worm-creature on the left)
SuperGrafx (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9770/sgxghoulsgate9zw.jpg)(not much detail....)
Arcade (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5525/ghoulsgate2600x4506jy.jpg)(look at the exellent DETAIL in the wall~entrance!)
_______________ Arcade (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3549/ghoulstentbones600x4504xq.jpg)(detailed wall, bones, and tent!)
_______________ SuperGrafx (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1777/sgxghoulstent5dr.jpg)(where'd all the great detail go?)
Arcade (http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2153/ghoulsarcadeplatform480x3605pw.jpg)(the blue wall on the right looks awesome in the Arcade, but not nearly so on SuperGrafx)
(nevermind the somewhat blurry, washed out, over-bright look of the last few arcade screens, I had to do capture them using MAME and I turned up the pause-brightness so you could see the detail better)
p.s. the Xbox and PS2 version in Capcom Classics Collection are not 100% exact to the arcade, although it is MUCH MUCH closer than the SuperGrafx version. the Xbox-PS2 version is based directly on the not-QUITE-exact but 'pretty damn close' Playstation rendition from Capcom Generation vol. 2. which was released in 1998. the Saturn version does not have background brightness problems that the PS1-Xbox-PS2 version has.
so, I hope that any illusions of the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts being, heh, 'arcade perfect', have been completely and utterly DESTROYED :D
with that said, I *Still* love the SuperGrafx and its translation (not port) of Ghouls 'n Ghosts and still think it's worth picking up at a REASONABLE price. do not pay more than $300 for a SuperGrafx plus GnG. I payed slightly under $300 for mine in the late 90s.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Bonknuts on March 13, 2006, 12:40:21 PM
No, the Super CDROM2 unit does not need the RAU-30 adapter. It also does not need a system card as it has system card 3.0 built into it. If you by the Arcade card upgrade for the Super CDROM2 unit, buy the Arcade Card Duo as it's cheaper and compatible with this unit (not the suit case models).
The Super CDROM2 unit has a AC power connector pass through cable so you only need one AC adapter(PAD-125), but the pass through connector needs to be for the SuperGrafx as the plug connecter is bigger than the PCE/CoreGrafx. The pass through cable I got with mine isn't for the SuperGrafx, so I run two AC adapters :(
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: dj898 on March 13, 2006, 03:14:15 PM
same here though I rarely fire up my SGX combo... use duo-rx instead if I need...
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: GUTS on March 13, 2006, 06:29:09 PM
Nice comparison shots, I was always under the impression that the super grafx version was supposedly arcade perfect. From those pics it looks like the Genesis version basically.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Keranu on March 13, 2006, 07:12:28 PM
There is a site that compares the arcade, x6800, Genesis, and Super Grafx versions, and they are all a little different actually. The x6800 version was really close though, but the Super Grafx and Genesis versions just sort of decided to draw their own versions of the tiles, rather then trying to immitate them.
By the way, did anyone else think the Super Grafx version looked cooler in this shot?
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 13, 2006, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
Nice comparison shots, I was always under the impression that the super grafx version was supposedly arcade perfect. From those pics it looks like the Genesis version basically.
SuperGrafx version is quite a bit more detailed than the Genesis version as it uses more of the arcade's art, but it's not as detailed as the arcade and much less color is used.
SuperGrafx graphics are roughly inbetween Genesis and Arcade overall, maybe leaning slightly a bit more towards the arcade, but still a long enough ways off so that there is a large and very pronounced difference.
X68000 version is probably the closest to the arcade, even closer than PS1, Saturn, PS2 and Xbox. these versions are all arcade-quality even though not 100% exact--they're close enough to the point where it doesn't really matter much. however I do miss the arcade ending music which is different in PS1, Saturn, PS2, Xbox, but thankfully is alright in X68000 which is one of the main reasons I rate it above the other arcade-quality versions I mentioned in this paragraph.
Quote from: "Keranu"
There is a site that compares the arcade, x6800, Genesis, and Super Grafx versions, and they are all a little different actually. The x6800 version was really close though, but the Super Grafx and Genesis versions just sort of decided to draw their own versions of the tiles, rather then trying to immitate them.
here are some of the webpages comparing the different versions of Ghouls 'n Ghosts (not the more recent versions)
http://nfg.2y.net/games/x68k/ http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/ http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gng2.html http://www.skytopia.com/games/arcade/arcadecompare.html (scroll down to the middle of the page)
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: esteban on March 14, 2006, 06:15:26 AM
OK, this thread inspired me to post a few thoughts :) on the use of "arcade perfect" terminology and why it is a relative term:
0) Back in the day, many ports seemed to *really capture* the arcade experience, in terms of gameplay, graphics and sound. Today, we look back and realize that the consoles of yesterday didn't have many (if any) arcade perfect ports. Even simpler arcade games like Galaga were lacking / different in significant ways.
1) We still don't have truly "arcade perfect" ports on today's high-end hardware / consoles. Do many of these ports *seem* nearly perfect? Of course. Well, at least in 2005 we think so...
2) A few years from now, though, people will laugh at our current emulation of arcade hardware, because significant improvements will be made in all areas. Perhaps only the purists will appreciate this, because most folks are happy with the current level of emulation of older arcade games, but improvements will be made.
So,
A) "Arcade perfect", depending on how strict your standards are, is a term that shouldn't be thrown around carelessly with ports. EVEN TODAY.
But,
B) If we judge a port in context to the available hardware at the time, we can better appreciate the ports of yesteryear. In the realm of computers X68000 had a wicked port of G n G. But we should distinguish between platforms and not simply lump X68000 (or AMIGA, for that matter) in with relatively cheap consoles when we make comparisons.
We should also be a little forgiving when folks (back in the day) extolled a game as "nearly arcade perfect" because, at the time, these ports were as close as any console had gotten to recreating more sophisticated arcade games. We're talking late 80's and early 90's.
Sure, there were great ports of simpler, earlier arcade games (i.e. Joust, Galaga) during 8-bit and prior console eras, but it was amazing to see STRIDER on the Genesis at the same time it was in the arcades. Yeah, I know that Strider on Genesis wasn't arcade perfect -- far from it. I also know that folks have argued that the Genny port is showing its age and had some flaws. I don't disagree. But I still enjoy the game -- and it is NOT about nostalgia.
I seek and enjoy most versions of a kool game. So...
C) I never understand folks who say, "Well, now that the we have the perfect Saturn / DC / PSX / GBA / PS2 port of ____________ , you shouldn't waste your time with the earlier, lesser ports." In all fairness, some of the folks who say this aren't interested in retrogaming on consoles as much as they are interested in the orginal arcade games.
Sorry for rambling :) !!!
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: vestcoat on March 14, 2006, 11:14:55 AM
so...anyone know if jap power supplies work here in the US?
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: rolins on March 14, 2006, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: "vestcoat"
so...anyone know if jap power supplies work here in the US?
There is no problem as long as your electrical outlets run at 110v. I live in a old apartment and none my electrical outlets will go no lower than 120v. I plugged my Duo-R in 120v outlet and weird things started to happen. Mainly redbook audio stops and I can hear some kind of grinding noise from the cd player. I bought a step down transformer 120v -> 100v and I never had anymore problems.
http://www.voltageconverters.com/go.asp?ic=VC100J
This is the step down transformer that I bought and it's inexpensive
-
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Keranu on March 14, 2006, 05:52:58 PM
Nice post, Steve. Oh and +10 points for using 0 as your first number ;) .
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Black Tiger on March 16, 2006, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: "stevek666"
OK, this thread inspired me to post a few thoughts :) on the use of "arcade perfect" terminology and why it is a relative term:
0) Back in the day, many ports seemed to *really capture* the arcade experience, in terms of gameplay, graphics and sound. Today, we look back and realize that the consoles of yesterday didn't have many (if any) arcade perfect ports. Even simpler arcade games like Galaga were lacking / different in significant ways.
1) We still don't have truly "arcade perfect" ports on today's high-end hardware / consoles. Do many of these ports *seem* nearly perfect? Of course. Well, at least in 2005 we think so...
2) A few years from now, though, people will laugh at our current emulation of arcade hardware, because significant improvements will be made in all areas. Perhaps only the purists will appreciate this, because most folks are happy with the current level of emulation of older arcade games, but improvements will be made.
So,
A) "Arcade perfect", depending on how strict your standards are, is a term that shouldn't be thrown around carelessly with ports. EVEN TODAY.
But,
B) If we judge a port in context to the available hardware at the time, we can better appreciate the ports of yesteryear. In the realm of computers X68000 had a wicked port of G n G. But we should distinguish between platforms and not simply lump X68000 (or AMIGA, for that matter) in with relatively cheap consoles when we make comparisons.
We should also be a little forgiving when folks (back in the day) extolled a game as "nearly arcade perfect" because, at the time, these ports were as close as any console had gotten to recreating more sophisticated arcade games. We're talking late 80's and early 90's.
Sure, there were great ports of simpler, earlier arcade games (i.e. Joust, Galaga) during 8-bit and prior console eras, but it was amazing to see STRIDER on the Genesis at the same time it was in the arcades. Yeah, I know that Strider on Genesis wasn't arcade perfect -- far from it. I also know that folks have argued that the Genny port is showing its age and had some flaws. I don't disagree. But I still enjoy the game -- and it is NOT about nostalgia.
I seek and enjoy most versions of a kool game. So...
C) I never understand folks who say, "Well, now that the we have the perfect Saturn / DC / PSX / GBA / PS2 port of ____________ , you shouldn't waste your time with the earlier, lesser ports." In all fairness, some of the folks who say this aren't interested in retrogaming on consoles as much as they are interested in the orginal arcade games.
Sorry for rambling :) !!!
The NES version is still my favorite Strider.
Also, I beleive that whether or not any work was ever done on the Supergrafx version of Strider, the Arcade Card version is pretty much what we could've expected visually if they did a similar job compared to GnG/Daimakaimura.
The main difference probably would've been a layer of scrolling background, less detail in the bg's and no bonus level(the CD specific features are a given).
The plain old PC Engine could've pumped out a much better, near-arcade perfect port of GnG on HuCard or CD if it was given the effort that Side Arms and Forgotten Worlds received.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 16, 2006, 09:28:41 PM
a few articles from EGM showing how much they hyped SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts:
EGM #10 - May, 1990 (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9332/egmghoulshypecrop4kn.jpg)
EGM #11 - June 1990 (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4609/sgxghoulsdestroyscrop4hi.jpg) (note that 'The Mountain King' is Granzort)
EGM #13 - August 1990 (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1755/ghoulssgxtreecrop6gh.jpg)
EGM #14 - September 1990 (http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/703/egmghoulshype2crop465x10067vy.jpg)
EGM #15 - October 1990 (http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/9576/supergrafxreview8xz.jpg)
okay, so some of the excitement was in order, afterall, the SG graphics in GnG DID blow the Genesis away in many areas. but I think these articles contributed to everyone's delusion in later years that SG was as good as the arcade.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: FM-77 on March 17, 2006, 12:22:55 AM
It is always funny to read old gaming magazines. The fanboyism was ridiculous back then! "They blow the Genesis away!", "which DESTROYS the Genesis 16-bit version", etc etc. :lol:
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Black Tiger on March 17, 2006, 12:34:02 AM
Quote from: "Seldane"
It is always funny to read old gaming magazines. The fanboyism was ridiculous back then! "They blow the Genesis away!", "which DESTROYS the Genesis 16-bit version", etc etc. :lol:
In cases like that though, it wasn't fanboyism(I don't think anyone at EGM ever touched a SGX), it was the whole idea that anything next gen, by default, will always be better.
And since the Supergrafx had a pallete of thousands of colors and hardware scaling & rotation and a faster cpu, then all of its games of course would have to better.
Especially when it says on paper that the Supergrafx version has a higher Meg size. And as anyone who read the mags at the time knows, the more megs, the more processing power.
And I think that fanboyism was relatively low-key back then compared to how fanboyism todays totally destroys it.
Especially with self-titled "gamers"(now its cool for me to play video games just like its cool to obsess over Star Trek as long as you refer to yourself as a "Treker") online.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: FM-77 on March 17, 2006, 12:48:14 AM
Oh, I see. I thought it was a NEC magazine. :)
I remember reading Nintendo magazines back in the day. Once when they reviewed Adventure Island 2 for NES, they said:
"Adventure Island 2 is actually a rip-off of Sega's Wonder Boy. But Wonder Boy, on the other hand -- is a total rip-off of Nintendo's own Super Mario!"
Ridiculous!! :roll:
Got more examples, but not now. :wink:
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 17, 2006, 04:40:15 AM
While we're on the subject of Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, take a look what dear old Computer & Video Games had to say about the Megadrive verison.
Yeah, right. Great game as it was, there are a hell of a lot of differences.
wow, nice find paul. I've never seen that quote before, since I never read C&VG magazine. this is typical though, of the nonsense that was said back in 1989.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: FM-77 on March 17, 2006, 09:08:47 AM
Quote from: "supergrafxpcengine2"
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
While we're on the subject of Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, take a look what dear old Computer & Video Games had to say about the Megadrive verison.
Yeah, right. Great game as it was, there are a hell of a lot of differences.
wow, nice find paul. I've never seen that quote before, since I never read C&VG magazine. this is typical though, of the nonsense that was said back in 1989.
They even said "Megadrive." 8)
(Goes off to play his Mega Drive.)
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 17, 2006, 09:29:23 AM
EGM praised Genesis Ghouls 'n Ghosts very highly, telling us it was a 'virtual carbon-copy' of the coin-op:
EGM stretched the truth quite a bit here, although they did not give us an absolute falsehood, a total baldfaced lie, as Computer & Video Games obviously did, because EGM said 'virtual' before 'carbon-copy', and EGM later acknowledged the fact that lots of graphics had been cut from the Genesis version, and that even the SuperGrafx version was 'closer' to the coin-op and never said there were no differences.
heh, when I read that EGM mag, that was the first I had EVER heard of Ghouls 'n Ghosts, and at the time I did not even know about the previous game, Ghosts 'n Goblins.
with that said, I actually approve of the term 'carbon-copy', that is, if it can be used in a truthful way-- obviously not in the Genesis GnG example, but that term is a much, much better description than the horribly over-used phrase 'arcade perfect' which means absolutely nothing and is completely worthless, IMO.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: akamichi on March 17, 2006, 03:55:23 PM
I remember reading those EGMs back in the day. They did go overboard with the "arcade perfect" ratings a number of times.
I'd like to say that the PCE mags of that time didn't do the same thing. At least they compared the arcade, MD, and SGX versions w/pix on the same page rather than just saying "perfect" or "kills the MD ver". Not to say that they weren't biased, but at least they compared a few shots and explained the differences in terms of the console's capabilities. I'll have to look for that article and post it.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 17, 2006, 04:05:33 PM
Quote from: "akamichi"
I remember reading those EGMs back in the day. They did go overboard with the "arcade perfect" ratings a number of times.
but thankfully, the old skool EGM of 1989-1994 did not use the phrase 'arcade perfect'. that awful term came into being around the mid 1990s, and I think it started more with GameFan.... then everyone was using it during the Saturn-Playstation-Nintendo64 era, and it still has not gone away *shudder*
but yeah, the good old EGM, the 'real' EGM, by Sendai Publications, did over-rate the arcade translations of many games, including Genesis Super Monaco GP (it got two 10s) and AfterBurner II, among others.
Quote
I'd like to say that the PCE mags of that time didn't do the same thing. At least they compared the arcade, MD, and SGX versions w/pix on the same page rather than just saying "perfect" or "kills the MD ver". Not to say that they weren't biased, but at least they compared a few shots and explained the differences in terms of the console's capabilities. I'll have to look for that article and post it.
wow that's refreshing! I would dearly love to see some scans from these PCE magazines, along with even a rough translation to English, like the translated SGX Strider articles.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Keranu on March 17, 2006, 05:26:07 PM
Haha, that GnG scan was hilarious, Paul.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: vestcoat on March 17, 2006, 06:04:58 PM
Quote from: "rolins"
Quote from: "vestcoat"
so...anyone know if jap power supplies work here in the US?
There is no problem as long as your electrical outlets run at 110v. I live in a old apartment and none my electrical outlets will go no lower than 120v. I plugged my Duo-R in 120v outlet and weird things started to happen. Mainly redbook audio stops and I can hear some kind of grinding noise from the cd player. I bought a step down transformer 120v -> 100v and I never had anymore problems.
http://www.voltageconverters.com/go.asp?ic=VC100J
This is the step down transformer that I bought and it's inexpensive
-
Thanks for the link Rolins, i ordered that converter yesterday
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 17, 2006, 07:35:18 PM
Quote from: "Keranu"
Haha, that GnG scan was hilarious, Paul.
indeed it was.
Arcade Daimakaimura - Ghouls 'n Ghosts (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8702/ghoulsarcadebridgecrop3wq.jpg)
Megadrive/Genesis Daimakaimura - Ghouls 'n Ghosts (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1659/ghoulsgenesisbridge4rv.jpg)
(http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg) "THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEGADRIVE AND ARCADE GHOULS 'N GHOSTS" THE MEGADRIVE VERSION IS A PIXEL-FOR-PIXEL COPY"
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: sunteam_paul on March 17, 2006, 07:42:18 PM
Looool
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: FM-77 on March 18, 2006, 12:07:16 AM
(http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg) "THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEGADRIVE AND ARCADE GHOULS 'N GHOSTS" THE MEGADRIVE VERSION IS A PIXEL-FOR-PIXEL COPY"
That's the same game? :shock:
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 18, 2006, 12:13:10 AM
Quote from: "Seldane"
That's the same game? :shock:
yeah. Daimakaimura aka Ghouls 'n Ghosts
top screen is Arcade, bottem screen is Megadrive-Genesis
the same area of both is shown.
but, uh, since they look exactly the same, because there are no differences, you couldn't tell them apart, could you? The Megadrive-Genesis replicates the Arcade, pixel-for-pixel, because komputer and video games magazine said so.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Black Tiger on March 18, 2006, 10:35:19 AM
Quote
but yeah, the good old EGM, the 'real' EGM, by Sendai Publications, did over-rate the arcade translations of many games, including Genesis Super Monaco GP (it got two 10s) and AfterBurner II, among others.
I still remember EGM's first little preview of Street Fighter II.
It was a little box with one or two screen shots in the arcade coming soon section.
It said something about the graphics, etc were so good and it had cool 3D warping backgrounds that you'll only see in the arcade.
Within months, SFII was out on SNES with the warping floors and everything else fully intact.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Bonknuts on March 18, 2006, 10:57:52 AM
Well in comparison to the NES games/ports at the time, the MD conversions were near arcade perfect. The perspective of that time required the popular NES to part of the context.
Going from the NES to the MD/TG was amazing back then, it really felt like you were in utopia :lol: I remember just staring... and staring... and staring at those gorgeous graphics of the arcades right there in my own room!
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Black Tiger on March 18, 2006, 11:27:17 AM
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
Well in comparison to the NES games/ports at the time, the MD conversions were near arcade perfect. The perspective of that time required the popular NES to part of the context.
Going from the NES to the MD/TG was amazing back then, it really felt like you were in utopia :lol: I remember just staring... and staring... and staring at those gorgeous graphics of the arcades right there in my own room!
I remember doing the same thing with Super Mario Bros.
The wavy sound of the Genesis was also impressive at first, because even if it didn't always sound good, it at least sounded different or new(imagine if Sega had actually included the FM sound in the N.A. SMS).
The thing with the Genesis though, is that it wasn't such a huge leap over the SMS as it was over the NES. Had Nintendo not blackmailed its way to dominance of the market in North America, the Genesis wouldn't have seemed quite as impressive or arcade perfect when it came out(since I was the lone SMS gamer on the continent).
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 18, 2006, 12:48:29 PM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Quote
but yeah, the good old EGM, the 'real' EGM, by Sendai Publications, did over-rate the arcade translations of many games, including Genesis Super Monaco GP (it got two 10s) and AfterBurner II, among others.
I still remember EGM's first little preview of Street Fighter II.
It was a little box with one or two screen shots in the arcade coming soon section.
It said something about the graphics, etc were so good and it had cool 3D warping backgrounds that you'll only see in the arcade.
you mean this ?
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7056/sf2egmpreview1023x15118hq.jpg) it was in EGM #21 - April, 1991, page 46
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Black Tiger on March 18, 2006, 01:53:09 PM
Quote from: "handygrafx"
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Quote
but yeah, the good old EGM, the 'real' EGM, by Sendai Publications, did over-rate the arcade translations of many games, including Genesis Super Monaco GP (it got two 10s) and AfterBurner II, among others.
I still remember EGM's first little preview of Street Fighter II.
It was a little box with one or two screen shots in the arcade coming soon section.
It said something about the graphics, etc were so good and it had cool 3D warping backgrounds that you'll only see in the arcade.
you mean this ?
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7056/sf2egmpreview1023x15118hq.jpg) it was in EGM #21 - April, 1991, page 46
Exactly. All I knew for sure, was that it was a very blatent "Only an arcade" type quote.
And a year later we were playing it on a lowly 8-bit machine. :wink:
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 18, 2006, 02:54:29 PM
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
Well in comparison to the NES games/ports at the time, the MD conversions were near arcade perfect. The perspective of that time required the popular NES to part of the context.
Going from the NES to the MD/TG was amazing back then, it really felt like you were in utopia :lol: I remember just staring... and staring... and staring at those gorgeous graphics of the arcades right there in my own room!
compared to NES, yeah Genesis and TG16 were pretty incredible at the time... but even back then, I wasnt blind to the fact that the arcade conversions were still a long way off from being arcade-exact.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Bonknuts on March 18, 2006, 05:07:36 PM
Check it out, one of the SGX G&G programmers - http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~yav/prof/jobse.html#gg2
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 18, 2006, 10:45:10 PM
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
Check it out, one of the SGX G&G programmers - http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~yav/prof/jobse.html#gg2
hey that's kinda interesting! anything more like that ?
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 19, 2006, 03:10:45 AM
I uploaded some hastily-captured digital camera (thus, low framerate) videos of the and versions so you can compare the animation of the trees, and the rain.
check out the less-detailed parallax background behind the 'rope-tied stumpy' bridge where the tenticles are. the parallax background looks like some pixelated trees, not nearly as vivid as the arcade or arcade-quality home versions.
SUPERGRAFX (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5889/sgxghoulsbridge4fo.jpg) not-colorful, un-detailed ^pixelated trees^ of the parallax background
ARCADE (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2789/ghoulsarcadebridge26ew.jpg) nice parallax forest-swamp scene^ with lots of detail and color
equivalent scene from MegaDrive-Genesis (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1659/ghoulsgenesisbridge4rv.jpg) completely missing ^stumpy-roped bridge, ^missing parallax layer
Quote from: Keranu
By the way, did anyone else think the Super Grafx version looked cooler in this shot?
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Keranu on March 19, 2006, 05:28:20 PM
Wow, very cool comparisons. Call me crazy, but I still kind think the backgrounds (and even flames, I just like that cartoon look) look a little cooler in the Super Grafx versions of 2-2. The Genesis version... well I don't even know if it should be compared :D . Then again, it is pixel perfect.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: FM-77 on March 20, 2006, 12:37:32 AM
Isn't there a SNES version of this game too? How does that look?
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Superfamifreak on March 20, 2006, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: "Seldane"
Isn't there a SNES version of this game too? How does that look?
The Super famicom got Chohmakaimura - Super Ghouls & Ghosts.
IMO a much better game.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 20, 2006, 06:51:31 AM
Quote from: "Seldane"
Isn't there a SNES version of this game too? How does that look?
no, there is no SNES version of Daimakamimura ~ Ghouls 'N Ghosts
however there is Chomakaimura aka Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts, it's a sequel to Daimakaimura.
Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts looks a lot better than Megadrive-Genesis or SuperGrafx Diamakaimura, but not as good as Arcade Daimakaimura
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 20, 2006, 06:59:06 AM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
And since the Supergrafx had a pallete of thousands of colors and hardware scaling & rotation and a faster cpu, then all of its games of course would have to better.
actually SuperGrafx had te same CPU at the same speed as the PC-Engine, and *might* not have had hardware scaling & rotation, although EGM implied it did. I'm not sure if the scaling we see in Battle Ace and Aldyness is hardware scaling or done in software.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Superfamifreak on March 20, 2006, 07:04:36 AM
Seems like a certain some one is doing the rounds on all the major retro forums....
Basically he is signing up to all forums and posting the same pictures and threads on each one.
A bit... sad really.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: pixeljunkie on March 20, 2006, 07:37:56 AM
gawd! he is really workin' my tit
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on March 20, 2006, 08:43:38 AM
Superfamifreak: nobody on Neo-Geo.com was able to offer any real arguement that showed the comparisons were wrong. the comparison still stands for all to see (except on Neo-Geo.com where they hid my posts)
as for Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts, I think it was a retarded step backwards in gameplay. the hidious slowdown combined with the fact that you cannot attack up-down, just sucks. I will say though, the double jump is was an awesome addition.
however technically, the arcade Ghouls crushes Super Ghouls. the Super Fami is no CP-System ~ CPS.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: vestcoat on March 31, 2006, 10:04:31 AM
alright, i gotta say i'm really digging the Super Grafx. Even though it barely has any games and i only have 3 of them, it really does feel like a different system from the PCE. I got Ghouls and Ghosts and Battle Ace in the mail yesterday. G+G is awesome. After only playing the Master System version for years, the super grafx looks beautiful by comparison. i don't care if it's not arcade perfect. I even like Battle Ace too. It's repetitive, but it's a one of a kind game on the PCE. I've been playing Aldynes for the past two weeks and that's great. It's also just really nice to have the PCE compatibility so i can play Street Fighter 2 or PC Gengin 3 without a bloody converter. hell yeah
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Digi.k on March 31, 2006, 10:40:29 AM
you know I coulda swore I noticed that PCE games that had quite a few slowdown seemed a lot less noticeable when playing them on the Supergrafx but that was years ago..
I also coulda swore that PCE games like Street Fighter and parodius ran just just a tiny fraction faster on the SGX.. but maybe my memory is playing up...
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: Bonknuts on March 31, 2006, 11:50:49 AM
I don't want to start any rumors, but the SGX CPU did have an "A" revision that the other systems did not.
Although unlikey, it's possible that there would be slightly less slowdown - maybe a reduction in opcode penalties (+1 cpu clock cycle wait state is added to every access/read/write of the VCE and VDC on the non "A" revision hu6280 systems, even though it is not needed - info from Charles MacDonald).
By comparison, some roms running on MagicEngine, slowdown less than the real machine, even though the CPU is not overclocked, because certain penalties are not emulated. So it's possible that the "A" revision has reduced clock cycles on some instructions and/or does not have the VDC/VCE +1 clock cycle penalty like its brethren.
Title: Supergrafx - is it worth it?
Post by: handygrafx on April 01, 2006, 05:20:54 AM
I really enjoy Aldynes the most, of any SuperGrafx game-- even more so because it's completely exclusive to SuperGrafx, no better version exists elsewhere.