PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
Tech and Homebrew => Turbo/PCE Game/Tool Development => Topic started by: Bonknuts on April 22, 2013, 06:34:44 AM
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Hey guys :)
I'll be starting up a homebrew game for this summer, before I start school in the fall. I'm going about this in an ambitious manner and starting up a Kickstarter project for it. I'll be starting development on the game regardless if the Kickstarter thing falls through or not, but the goal is to get the game done by the end of August using the kickstarter funding (working on the game as a full project; 10 hours a day for 3-4 months, This will be my only job). I realize that some people are gonna frown or scuff at this (kickstarter), and that's perfectly fine. What I'm interested in, is the people that would like to see this succeed; help spread the word on the project and kickstarter, and just give it exposure outside PCE only/clique communities (there are a lot of PCE/TG fans out there that are not in a PCE/TG only community). Hell, even just some moral support would do wonders :)
I'll have more details soon; but mean time you can get some info on my blog ( http://pcedev.wordpress.com (http://pcedev.wordpress.com/) ).
I have to do some more research and talk with my team, but the general idea is that depending on the level money contributed on the Kickstarter project, you'll receive stuff ( a copy of the game, name in the credits, beta items, some sort of inclusion in the development process, etc. That sort of thing). If the Kickstarter goal is met, I won't need to do any pre-orders to fund the production for the physical medium, but I'll probably still do one just for limited release special editions (first 100 or so. These will be a different press CD). Ideas, feedback, WTFs, etc?
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I think a kickstarter for a PCE homebrew is a terrible idea for a few reasons:
1) You're officially locked in, if funding goes through. If real life steps in, that sure will suck, and complicate things. :) Given that you're going to school, I'd advise against it.
2) The kickstarter loot will probably breed a lot of profiteering bullshit from people who just start hocking the limited edition ones for retarded prices.
3) You can get production funding from this forum alone without having to resort to all the kickstarter hoojoo, once the game is at that state. Both games that used the pre-order concept here hit the production amount in like 2 days just from the PCEFXers. Why use Kickstarter for it? :) We got this.
4) Not using kickstarter gives you more wiggle room with deadlines.
5) You don't have to give a portion of the kickstarter fund to Kickstarter!
I'm all for the project though.
I think it will get exposure outside of the PCE community regardless of using KS, just like the rest of the projects. PCE Homebrew gets mentioned in magazines over in France and Germany. There's online exposure as well on various sites too.
People are pretty aware of us these days since Insanity, MSR, PP, and Revival Chase have hit the scenes.
So, I say, go for it, but, f*ck Kickstarter!
edit: Also, good luck finding a presser that will only press like 100 cds for a limited edition. Most minimums are 300, and lets be honest here, you'll probably only sell 300-500 total. Maybe more if you're SUPER lucky.
It's PCE homebrew. There aren't that many people interested in this stuff. Aware of it? Yes. Interested in buying a CD? Not really.
Until there's a cheaper way for the average goober to play CD games, they kinda blow the concept off.
now, ... maybe if you kickstart a project for a new Duo console.... :)
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Eh, i'am glad to see you're still alive man ;-)
This is a cool idea,i'am not a big kickstater fan, but for a pce project why not ..
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pcenginefxStarterKick! (http://pixel-zone.rpgdx.net/images/tutorials/selout/chun-li.png)
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Don't kickstarter it.
Don't rush it.
Just take your time and make a great game.
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Consider this post a vote of confidence/moral support. I always love to support new games for PCE/Turbo.
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Kick starter will just take your money. They charge pretty substantial fees with that shit.
Do a pre-order here and that will get you your funds without having to lose $
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Kick starter will just take your money. They charge pretty substantial fees with that shit.
Do a pre-order here and that will get you your funds without having to lose $
Exactly! 30$ish a pop, it only takes 30-40 gooners to get that preorder money!
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Kick starter will just take your money. They charge pretty substantial fees with that shit.
Do a pre-order here and that will get you your funds without having to lose $
Exactly! 30$ish a pop, it only takes 30-40 gooners to get that preorder money!
I'd donate moneys now to 'pre-order' my copy. And I wouldn't give two shits if it took you 3 years to complete the game. ;)
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I'd donate moneys now to 'pre-order' my copy. And I wouldn't give two shits if it took you 3 years to complete the game. ;)
Same here; it's a much better option than giving monies to kickstarter and having to abide by their rules. Just please, please don't do any crazy limited edition stuff, as it'll just lead to collector retard flailing. If you want to do something to reward pre-orders like a soundtrack disc or the like, though, that'd be cool as long as the game itself (including packaging) is the same.
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collector retard flailing.
This is the new term for it.
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I think a kickstarter for a PCE homebrew is a terrible idea for a few reasons:
[stuffs]
You make some good points and although I've thought about some of this already - I haven't looked in depth into Kickstarter so that idea might be a bust (which means I'll probably end up doing a website, self promotion, and a paypal donation box as well as a pre-oder and investor setups). I figured I could probably get the funding for pre-orders just through fans (and my brother offered to lend some money as well, if needed), but the way I want to go about this is to treat this as a full time job and a fixed schedule. Three solid months of working on this like any full time job (10+ hours a day, 5 days a week and weekends here and there) should easily get this done. I don't want to wait years, or a year, or even six months. If I can concentrate and consolidate all my time, three months should be enough time for development and polish. I'm no stranger to working hard hours for extended periods of times (I've done up to 3 months with no days off and 10 hours days before). The problem, is paying the bills since I won't have a job that would normally do.. that. I'm still planning out all the details, so any feedback is definitely most welcome - especially from you guys that have already put out some products.
Necromancer: I completely understand what you're saying, but there's got to be a some sort of compromise. Yeah, I'm not interested in fools reselling special edition copies for outrageous prices, but at the same time I want to reward some people with something really special. What do you guys think about if I did a special edition (doesn't matter if requires making 500 minimum copies; I can destroy the overage amount) for a really high price? Say like $300? That way, people that REALLY want it will pay for it. I.e. it's not like they're getting them for a low price just to turn around and resell it. Not that someone couldn't do that at that price, but it would deter a lot of regular folks from doing that - as in you really wanna take a resell gamble at $300? It satisfies the collector types or people that just have money, and it helps me out for the production costs (well, cost of living expense).
I'm not really worried about the cost of physical production as I am of the cost of time for the production itself. Like I said, I REALLY want to dedicate the whole summer (hell from now till September if it was possible) just to this game and nothing else - including working. It's not unrealistic or undoable by any means, other than raising the money for it. I'll be looking into other resources as well (family, extended family, friends, investors, etc). The title says homebrew, but the approach I want to take is a little, well... more professional approach. I don't mind hard deadlines; in fact I like the challenge of it.
It's a little early to be mentioning this, but some collaboration from some fans/devs outside of my team would be cool as well (maybe some chiptunes or such, design/polish/etc from peeps here or in the retro community in general). *If* there's any profit from this (and after divvy'ing out to others that are involved), it'll be used to help put myself through school. Even if that means something as little as $200 - hey, that'll buy some food or pay for gas, etc. Hell, I'd be happy just to break even (meaning I'd cover the cost of living expense for the production time on this). It sounds ambitious, I know.
Here are some definite ideas that are on the table; SGX support as well as ACD support. That game won't require either and it won't really take full advantage of both, but it will be an advancement and a nod towards those owners (also because I've always wanted to do this myself; make something for those platforms). As far as a PC port, I was thinking maybe just wrap an emulator around it. Of course, that'll come after the initial development platform which is PCE first and foremost. Heh, if I get enough support for PCE platform, I'll probably forgo the PC idea altogether (people can always play it on emulation if needed). Of course I'm getting ahead of myself.
Opinions on this?
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You make some good points and although I've thought about some of this already - I haven't looked in depth into Kickstarter so that idea might be a bust (which means I'll probably end up doing a website, self promotion, and a paypal donation box as well as a pre-oder and investor setups). I figured I could probably get the funding for pre-orders just through fans (and my brother offered to lend some money as well, if needed), but the way I want to go about this is to treat this as a full time job and a fixed schedule. Three solid months of working on this like any full time job (10+ hours a day, 5 days a week and weekends here and there) should easily get this done. I don't want to wait years, or a year, or even six months. If I can concentrate and consolidate all my time, three months should be enough time for development and polish. I'm no stranger to working hard hours for extended periods of times (I've done up to 3 months with no days off and 10 hours days before). The problem, is paying the bills since I won't have a job that would normally do.. that. I'm still planning out all the details, so any feedback is definitely most welcome - especially from you guys that have already put out some products.
Eh, don't treat this as a full time job. The return you will get is not going to be that of a full time job. Going into this expecting it to pay the bills is a fairly poor idea. It's also the wrong kind of motivation for a dead console. The point is to keep the console alive, not to make a living off of it.
Also, don't plan or assume that you can get it done in that amount of time even though you think you can. That kind of optimism only works if you have a real, full size, experienced development team that is getting programmer salary and support from NEC/Hudson (including useful tools and manuals).
It's not the early 90s anymore, so that isn't happening.
Necromancer: I completely understand what you're saying, but there's got to be a some sort of compromise. Yeah, I'm not interested in fools reselling special edition copies for outrageous prices, but at the same time I want to reward some people with something really special. What do you guys think about if I did a special edition (doesn't matter if requires making 500 minimum copies; I can destroy the overage amount) for a really high price? Say like $300? That way, people that REALLY want it will pay for it. I.e. it's not like they're getting them for a low price just to turn around and resell it. Not that someone couldn't do that at that price, but it would deter a lot of regular folks from doing that - as in you really wanna take a resell gamble at $300? It satisfies the collector types or people that just have money, and it helps me out for the production costs (well, cost of living expense).
This sounds like a waste of money if you're going to destroy the overages, and sounds a bit shady, honestly.
It'd have to be a really awesome special edition for such a high price to be justified. This means you will be spending a pretty hefty amount just to produce the limited edition... so you won't be gaining anything.
I'm not really worried about the cost of physical production as I am of the cost of time for the production itself. Like I said, I REALLY want to dedicate the whole summer (hell from now till September if it was possible) just to this game and nothing else - including working. It's not unrealistic or undoable by any means, other than raising the money for it. I'll be looking into other resources as well (family, extended family, friends, investors, etc). The title says homebrew, but the approach I want to take is a little, well... more professional approach. I don't mind hard deadlines; in fact I like the challenge of it.
I believe you brought this up once before, years ago, and I told you it was a bad idea then. It's still a bad idea. It's too optimistic, and profit-centric. The Turbo is the wrong place to be if you're focusing on profits and surviving off of the earnings.
Also, what will you do that will end up being more professional than what is already being done for the Turbob? We've got professionally pressed games distributed worldwide, with copyrights, trademarks, and advertising...
What you've said implies what's been done already is unprofessional.
It's a little early to be mentioning this, but some collaboration from some fans/devs outside of my team would be cool as well (maybe some chiptunes or such, design/polish/etc from peeps here or in the retro community in general). *If* there's any profit from this (and after divvy'ing out to others that are involved), it'll be used to help put myself through school. Even if that means something as little as $200 - hey, that'll buy some food or pay for gas, etc. Hell, I'd be happy just to break even (meaning I'd cover the cost of living expense for the production time on this). It sounds ambitious, I know.
The money you get will allow you to break even, and maybe pay for 1 semester of college, depending on rates. If you have a larger team involved, the profits, once divvy'd out fairly, will probably allow you to buy a game or two.
Here are some definite ideas that are on the table; SGX support as well as ACD support. That game won't require either and it won't really take full advantage of both, but it will be an advancement and a nod towards those owners (also because I've always wanted to do this myself; make something for those platforms). As far as a PC port, I was thinking maybe just wrap an emulator around it. Of course, that'll come after the initial development platform which is PCE first and foremost. Heh, if I get enough support for PCE platform, I'll probably forgo the PC idea altogether (people can always play it on emulation if needed). Of course I'm getting ahead of myself.
Support SGX and ACD on a second game. Don't shoot for the stars on Game #1. When you do that, you end up just shooting yourself in the foot.
Making a game is a lot more work than making tech demos. Expect unforeseen delays and issues. Expect things to go poorly. Everything sounds doable and easy on paper until you get to it and find all kinds of issues you didn't think would happen. When you combine that with over ambition, you end up with a project that doesn't get finished.
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Also, what will you do that will end up being more professional than what is already being done for the Turbob?
Professional as it isn't a hobby. Heh... that's not very descriptive either. Hobby as in; you do it at your leisure, no hard deadline, etc. I come from the indie movie crowd/mentality; there are fan films and then there are professional micro budget films. The quality between them might now be much to differentiate from one another, if at all, but the point being in how production time is spent, resources are allocated, etc. It doesn't directly imply quality or substance, but how you go about it. And the professional micro budget films have a hobbyist flavor to them, still. There also the point that micro budget films are expected to have some sort of return (even if in the negative), but that's not the point I'm trying to make.
That's all. I want to develop a homebrew type of game (although 'indie game' would be a better term for it) on a more professional style production time frame/structure. That's what I mean. Other people have done just this and with the help of Kickstarter or other resources. I want to allocate a chunk of time to complete this project. The cost of that is my living expense, which are pretty low at the moment (probably lower than almost any member here living on their own), given that this is pretty much all software/code/time rather than getting to places/locations, actors, and equipment. It gives the project a much different type of mentality for the people involved. Without hard deadlines, projects will overrun their course. Look at how many homebrew projects have vastly overrun their expected time of production. I can't think of a single one that has come close to meeting the original dead line. I was on a professional film production that had some loose dead lines and it went over by two plus years; that sucked. Our production time since then has really tightened up.
Covering my living expenses to develop the game isn't profit; that's a production expense because it's such a consolidated amount of time to dedicate to this (as opposed to in my 'free time' which spread over time is relative to nothing cost wise). Profit would be anything after that (and any other production costs). Like I said, if I can break even I'd be perfectly happy with that. If I make a little profit, then even better. But I doubt I'll make 'profit' if I just stick to the PCE platform. Hence the idea to branch out to PC (although I have no idea how that's going to even work out. At least the game will be developed so it would be just a matter of porting it). If it was all about profit, or even mostly about profit, I'd be choosing a different platform altogether (probably Genesis/MD because the user base is freaking huge in comparison). I wanna make a PCE game.
Yeah, I know this is ambitious. I already said it was. But I'm willing to give it a try. What is it worth to you guys, to have a PCE game finished and in your hands in ~much~ less than a year? I don't know about you guys, but I don't have the patience to wait another 2-3 years for another indie/homebrew game to be developed (just talking hypothetical). Because if I did this on my spare time, that's what it's going to take it get it done. And real life issues will come into play that would possibly delay it even longer. I'd rather block off an allotted amount of time just for this and get it done and into the hands of gamers. If I lived in my parents basement, none of this would be a problem; but they don't have a basement and they sure as hell don't want their grown-ass-man of son living with them... no good. So yeah, this.
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The people who use Kickstarter for indie games are reaching out to a wider audience, asking for money for a project they'd not really be able to do otherwise because of dev/platform licenses, required toolkits, time, and art. They're doing it with both profit and long-term jobs in mind. Get enough to fund it, produce it, and then hope sales happen afterwards...
The PCE is free to develop for, and it's assumed you probably already have testing hardware. Mednafen is free and works fine in place of real hardware for almost all testing.
and, again, you're targeting PCE, where its been proven at least twice now, that if you ask for pre-orders, you'll get your funding easily, and quickly. Just make sure you have proof that the project is actually ready to go.
Not to mention, there is not a large PCE fanbase. Once you do your initial sales wave, that's basically it aside from sporadic purchases every month or so.
You're more or less just asking the PCE community to toss larger sums of money at you than would normally be expected of a homebrew, simply to keep you fed/alive while you lock yourself in for a whole summer, hopefully finishing a game.
You would have to generate A LOT of money from a small fanbase in order to keep yourself sustained during this marathon and still have money to produce the game and whatever bonus loot you come up with. Creating that stuff isn't free either.
Not to mention, if you want to attract an outside crowd, you don't really have any previous games to demonstrate. The majority of outside gamers will be skeptical about handing money out to someone who only has tech demos to show off. The PCE crowd gets these things, but the other crowds may not.
Sure you could have a prototype of the current game, but without at least one finished game under your belt, I can see the non PCE loyalists being skeptical about completion.
This is especially because of all of the homebrew speedbumps that occur in all the scenes. People are skeptics. It happens.
I'm sorry duder, I don't see the point. We've got a steady stream of PCE happenings as of late that are continuing to go on. I myself am comfortable waiting for you to do whatever you are planning at a leisurely pace.
I honestly say, if you want to make a PCE game, just make a PCE game, at your leisure. I'd say its safe to assume everyone here, including myself will encourage you to create your game either way.
I mean, Insanity was made during both college + work in under a year in spare time, and that included learning the hardware, figuring out the whole chiptune thing, and all of that. Why rush things? :)
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The people who use Kickstarter for indie games are reaching out to a wider audience, asking for money for a project they'd not really be able to do otherwise because of dev/platform licenses, required toolkits, time, and art. They're doing it with both profit and long-term jobs in mind. Get enough to fund it, produce it, and then hope sales happen afterwards...
The PCE is free to develop for, and it's assumed you probably already have testing hardware. Mednafen is free and works fine in place of real hardware for almost all testing.
and, again, you're targeting PCE, where its been proven at least twice now, that if you ask for pre-orders, you'll get your funding easily, and quickly. Just make sure you have proof that the project is actually ready to go.
Not to mention, there is not a large PCE fanbase. Once you do your initial sales wave, that's basically it aside from sporadic purchases every month or so.
You're more or less just asking the PCE community to toss larger sums of money at you than would normally be expected of a homebrew, simply to keep you fed/alive while you lock yourself in for a whole summer, hopefully finishing a game.
You would have to generate A LOT of money from a small fanbase in order to keep yourself sustained during this marathon and still have money to produce the game and whatever bonus loot you come up with. Creating that stuff isn't free either.
Not to mention, if you want to attract an outside crowd, you don't really have any previous games to demonstrate. The majority of outside gamers will be skeptical about handing money out to someone who only has tech demos to show off. The PCE crowd gets these things, but the other crowds may not.
Sure you could have a prototype of the current game, but without at least one finished game under your belt, I can see the non PCE loyalists being skeptical about completion.
This is especially because of all of the homebrew speedbumps that occur in all the scenes. People are skeptics. It happens.
I'm sorry duder, I don't see the point. We've got a steady stream of PCE happenings as of late that are continuing to go on. I myself am comfortable waiting for you to do whatever you are planning at a leisurely pace.
I honestly say, if you want to make a PCE game, just make a PCE game, at your leisure. I'd say its safe to assume everyone here, including myself will encourage you to create your game either way.
I mean, Insanity was made during both college + work in under a year in spare time, and that included learning the hardware, figuring out the whole chiptune thing, and all of that. Why rush things? :)
Everything you said is true. And I agree with it. I just.. want to find a way to make this happen on the terms I've out lined - lol. I definitely know of the skepticism of the retrogaming community towards anything homebrew getting to completion, which is why one of the reasons I wanted to present this in a more professional.. indie game type of light. I also figured branching out to one more platform would help bring in more funding. I understand the norm for retrogaming community is that you develop the product first and then ask for funding (basically preordering) for the final costs (usually physical production). I think the PC platform would be a good alternate platform choice. It still leaves the game dedicated to the PCE/TG16 (instead of multiconsole), giving it that still PCE exclusive-ness (kinda). I mean, it will be the initial platform release, designed specifically around the PCE. It'll be a PCE game through and through. And even being on CD platform, I want chiptunes (though I might give the options for both chiptune or CDDA, if time serves). I want that nostalgic retro game feel. I think that would lend well to the PC gamers that like that retro style as well. So yeah, I'm hoping (rather, betting) on another platform such as the PC to bring in a wider audience for funding. I thought about other platforms (XNA or whatever, and 'driod), but they just don't seem like a good choice. I want to focus on what's most important first.
I don't want to come off that I'm rushing things. Sorry, if it seems that way. To me, this isn't rushing anything. Not really. It's no different that if you take 2000 hours and divide it up over a year, or over 4 months. I just don't want this to take forever and a minute. This doesn't have anything to do with school or real life per se (I'll be starting first year community college; I've done that before. It's not so bad). In my opinion, I work much better when time allotted is consolidated into a single chunk/layout. And I think this holds true for almost anyone. People lose steam, motivation, interest, and more chances for real life crap to get in the way, the longer you allow the project to go on. I think it's the number one reason why such any hobbyist projects fail (games or otherwise). I know first hand how many projects died because there wasn't enough time to throw at it and people lose interest or other things come along and distract you (and no, you don't have to be ADD for this to happen - lol), etc. Both in coding projects and other stuff (film/movie production related).
Anyway, I have a pretty good outline of the game and story already. I'm working on putting together a presentation and a site for it. I'm not the greatest of animation/cartoon style artist (although I'm decent at adapting such to pixel art), so I have a few comic book artist friends I need to get with (people need visuals). That a side, in case anyone is wondering or such, the game is going to be Megaman meets metriodvania. The gameplay controls are going to be very Megaman-ish (shooting, jumping, dodging ala Megaman style), and the level design is going to be metriod/castlevania-ish; back tracking, map system, exploration, hidden area, side missions, etc. The plot device for the characters motivation will be Megaman Legends-ish, rather than 'saving' the day old school Megaman. Though there will be overlying plots complexities and such. There will also be a team, although the main character is the only controllable character. It's gonna be a little more mature and not so MM kiddy-ish (think something closer to Cowboy Bebop. Actually that's a pretty good/accurate description; Cowboy Bebop meets Megaman mash up).
All this might be one big fail and you might be completely right (and I'll eat crow), but I've gotta try - else I'm gonna end up completely regretting not at least trying to pull this off. Better to try and fail than to never try at all, or some shite like that - I'm sure.
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If you're going to keep it PCE exclusive, I vote you just go with the approach everyone else is doing instead of trying to force yourself to crank out a fairly ambitious title in such a small amount of time. You'd end up setting everyone (including yourself) up for disappointment instead of chugging along at your leisure and enjoying it.
I say branch out and worry and kickstarting and huge outreaching after the PCE one is finished and you have something to show off for it.
right now, even if you branch out, you don't have anything to show off. By the time you get mockups together, and people get everything else together, the clock will already be ticking and the deadline will be rapidly approaching.
and without copious amounts of moneys falling on the rest of your teams laps, I doubt anyone will want to blow their freetime during the summer making music/coloring pictures/doing animation stuff for a project with a rapidly approaching deadline that might not even be met, lol.
It sounds like a sweet game idea though, so I still think you should do the game, just with a saner timeline approach so you enjoy the process.
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You mentioned SGX & ACD. Are you saying these would be required, or are you talking bi-compatible, where when placed in an SGX with an ACD, you get enhancements? If it's exclusively SGX & ACD, that will ofcoarse drastically limit the number of Turbob's that would be able to play it, which maybe effect sales, though, if anyone's like me, I'd buy it anyways to support the Turbo scene in general.
Doing this on a professional level I deffinitely say requires hard deadlines, or vice versa, they go hand in hand. When we're doing games in our spare time, it's waaaay too easy for RL to step in & slow or stop everything. Obviously RL can still step in when doing it as a full time job, but I'd say much less likely, since you don't have the usual 10hr a day etc. job eating up the time besides the coding.
Speaking of which, have you done some really long coding sessions? I know for me, I personally don't think I could handle doing music for a game exclusively. I sometimes get stuck on a tune, & have to litterally stop & not work on it for a day, or 2, or 3, or etc. Then BAM, I can have a great idea that drives me forward. Something like that would get in the way of a deadline, though, since I've never done music on a daily work schedule, I can't say for 100% certainty that I couldn't. If you're uncertain, maybe there's a way you can do some test runs of 10 hrs of coding, though, I'd make it count. Build something either for your game, or some sort of mini game(an old arcade or atari game?), or something that the dev community in general, & make sure what you're coding is interesting to you in general.
As for the deadline itself, I say get all your ideas together now, before a deadline is set. You mentioned how people can lose steam, & I can say from my own experience that that's VERY true. I personally keep going with my projects, but I do find that when I see more work from the others in our various projects, it does give me a boost, & I assume when I show off a song, or even a partial song, or even a neat idea, that it can atleast give the others a goose of sorts! :lol:
I feel like there was another thought or 2 I wanted to convey, but it's slipped my mind, so far now, this is all I can think of, other then GO GO GO Tom/Mal/Bonknuts/etc. Whether you choose to do it in 3 months, or not, I look foward to it!
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STATUS: Comrade, good to see you posting here. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
I'm not going to post long screeds on the best method for fundraising/raising awareness...but I will tell you this: once you decide how you are going to proceed, I will support it.
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html) (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcds.html) (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
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Secondeded.
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This sounds like a really lovely thing, and if it is what you want to do with those three months, go for it. Kickstarter or not.
Some points / suggestions:
*If you can, try and get all of your tools and mechanics done before this summer. Spending three months just on content (stage objects, level design, etc) would be fantastic. Getting the mechanics done ahead of time, I think- is especially important, since then you'll have a better understanding of how the player will interact with the world around them rather than just simple outlines like "jump, run, shoot." You'll then be free to cleverly use/abuse this. It also gives you more playtesting time.
*HuCards are only going to be expensive if you want a plastic mold, this can run you $5K easy. The cost of manufacturing is obviously higher than CDs, but consider the theoretical sales of the game. If you are selling 600+ copies on HuCard at $50 each...
I don't mean this in a money-grubbing way, but just consider alternate formats if it makes development easier. Since these things are quite feasible.
*Don't worry about PC ports or any other editions of the game, just make one version- the good version. For a downloadable edition on PC or such, maybe you could collaborate with some emulator authors and split the sales profits on that platform? In any case your focus should just be on the game's design and development.
Best of luck with all this.
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*HuCards are only going to be expensive if you want a plastic mold, this can run you $5K easy. The cost of manufacturing is obviously higher than CDs, but consider the theoretical sales of the game. If you are selling 600+ copies on HuCard at $50 each...
I don't mean this in a money-grubbing way, but just consider alternate formats if it makes development easier. Since these things are quite feasible.
I was under the impression he was planning a CD game release, not a HuCard one.
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I was under the impression he was planning a CD game release, not a HuCard one.
This was moreso in response to the post on his blog, stating that a HuCard may be too ambitious.
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I was under the impression he was planning a CD game release, not a HuCard one.
This was moreso in response to the post on his blog, stating that a HuCard may be too ambitious.
Ah.
Yeah. A HuCard is a bit too ambitious, I'd say. It adds a whole new level of complexity to the project, and effectively destroys the chance of it being completeable in a marathon of a few months.
Also, another thing with the Kickstarter route is, if you say your deadline is in just a few months, people are going to look at you like you are high on all kinds of things.
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Count me in! Go for the challenge!
I think having access to things like private progress reports and early betas should be more than enough incentive for supporters.
No need for fancy shmancy limited editions. But, if you go that route, you could include maybe a "don't ebay" logo and some kind of disclaimer.
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I think having access to things like private progress reports and early betas should be more than enough incentive for supporters.
That's not very different than what everyone here already gets for free from everyone making games, though.
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I don't want to come off that I'm rushing things. Sorry, if it seems that way. To me, this isn't rushing anything. Not really. It's no different that if you take 2000 hours and divide it up over a year, or over 4 months. I just don't want this to take forever and a minute. This doesn't have anything to do with school or real life per se (I'll be starting first year community college; I've done that before. It's not so bad). In my opinion, I work much better when time allotted is consolidated into a single chunk/layout. And I think this holds true for almost anyone. People lose steam, motivation, interest, and more chances for real life crap to get in the way, the longer you allow the project to go on. I think it's the number one reason why such any hobbyist projects fail (games or otherwise). I know first hand how many projects died because there wasn't enough time to throw at it and people lose interest or other things come along and distract you (and no, you don't have to be ADD for this to happen - lol), etc. Both in coding projects and other stuff (film/movie production related).
Sometimes time IS a good thing, especially when you're dealing with something creative. You can avoid burn-out and develop better ideas - gameplay, visuals, level design, music etc. How many professionally released games suck because of a refusal to release 'when it's ready'? Homebrew has an advantage in not having enforced deadlines. I'm pretty sure people lose interest in projects not because of the time, but due to stalling, team members vanishing for ages, lack of updates for the team to see etc. I'd rather you set a good, steady pace than feel you have to finish by day X. We'll all get a much better end result because of it.
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I don't see any problem with doing a Kickstarter, as long as the funding goal meets your needs for summer survival. If you don't reach that funding level, the Kickstarter won't succeed. Note that Kickstarter has been getting firmer on needing to see some documentation and work up front so that they don't have people trying to fund total phantoms.
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I'll support whatever funding vehicle and timeframe you choose.
Yeah, the Summer deadline is ambitious and Arkahn's points should not be taken lightly, but you don't have much to lose besides time. Worst-case scenario: funding falls through, you waste half your summer, eat potatoes and oatmeal on foodstamps for two months, there's an internet scandal, and the game is released three years late. That doesn't sound much worse than the ongoing Mysterious Song drama.
I don't have any qualms with the profit aspect. I can't design games and I'm happy to pay other people for it (although I can't contribute more than a $100 these days). Neither am I worried about resellers. Meteor Blaster had a limited edition and it's been listed on ebay... what, TWICE? One guy got $250, a more recent seller didn't get much.
Give it a shot. Make a clear timeline for your fundraising goals and see where it goes. Prepare an exit strategy if it's not working. Set deadlines, but make sure they're under your control: you can finish the game, but you can't control the idiots at the replicating plant. With such a short timeline, make your goals attainable. Better to perfect the game engine and release a short game with three stages than miss your deadline or rush out a buggy game with eight stages. You can always make a sequel or release a "complete" version later.
Good luck. This sounds exciting.
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If it's going to be PCE exclusive, the Kickstarter will be asking a lot of everyone here. I can't imagine outside crowds really diving aboard. If they really gave a shit about the PCE, they would already be here posting.
I can't say I myself would be enthusiastic about giving out extra money for a self imposed deadline so that living expenses can be covered when there is no guarantee that the project will in fact see completion by said deadline.
There would be a large expectation from all of us. If there's fancy rewards for giving more money, what that really does is cancel out the extra money.... because you have to spend money to produce those rewards, so you won't really be able to spend it on living expenses.
That's why it should be done for fun at your leisure instead...
and what Spenoza said: "Better to release a short game with three stages."
That would be a bit disappointing if the end product is a very short game, because the timeline and deadline were so cramped. People will have invested in what is essentially just a demo for a bigger game. That doesn't seem too good.
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No matter what form / method you go about this, I will support / buy whatever the result is. Money up front or later is fine. I will always support homebrewers as much as I can.
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I was thinking. In regards to my suggestion of first starting with a smaller project(for you to see how well you do working on a game with a daily shedule), I'll re-emphasize that it be something that you would enjoy & want to do. Whether it be an old Atari or Arcade favorite, some neato dev utility, or even remake your favorite Mega Man from the ground up on the Turbo(maybe could even use a tweaked version of the engine for your big game).
Then, if you've done this, besides seeing yourself prepared for a schedule of coding, you'd also have something to show if you do indeed decide to do kickstarter. You can say, look, I made a game already, now I want to do something more ambitious & need a lil' help in funding.
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Three solid months of working on this like any full time job (10+ hours a day, 5 days a week and weekends here and there) should easily get this done.
Bonknuts, if you do that, you are going to be my hero. Count on me to buy the game for sure.
And good luck with the full time work.
We will be waiting!
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Three solid months of working on this like any full time job (10+ hours a day, 5 days a week and weekends here and there) should easily get this done.
Citation needed.
Game making isn't a walk in the park.
Look at stuff like E.T. and Pac Man for Atari 2600. short time frame, decent budget, horrible turnout due to rushed.
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Hey, glad you've got another project. I'll forward this topic to the french community so you get as much support as possible.
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I havent read through everything in this thread, but I think that its worth a shot if you already have the stages, menus, systems/gameplay, etc planned out and only need to program at this point. And as long as you line up artists beforehand that you know can produce all the assets fast enough to keep up with you. Character designs and general art style should be finalized enough and at least target mockups of the pixel art should be completed before starting, just so that everyone involved is at least progressing in a straight line towards completion with a predetermined amount of work to do.
Only under such a strict timeline do I think that this is the minimum requirement to start, as opposed to an ideal launch pad. If the project is more of an unknown entity being picked away at, then you really can't know if it'll take weeks or years to complete, but I think that years will be the likely scenario if it isn't fully designed yet (unless you're doing something simple like an early 80's game). From my experience, the less planning in the earliest stages of a project, the more work and chaos you encounter down the road.
With that said I'll still support this venture however it proceeds. :)
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Just wanted to state a few things:
Like I said before, I want to allocate a solid full three months into development. That doesn't mean the game will be shipped at the end of three months. There would still be a few things to tidy up, such as manual design, dealing with the pressing house and such. And I will be working on stuff before those said three months. I need to research how long is a good time period to raise such funds. We're gonna be starting May here very soon, so that would leave one month of fund raising to meet that goal. From the little bit that I've been researching about how to go about using Kickstarter, I large part of my early funding isn't going to come from the KS community itself. As the funding nears its completion, I'm more likely to attract people to pledge - even if they don't particularly have a connection to the project (and specifically since this is a game, not a movie or indie series). 60 days looks to be ok for a minimum length of fund raising (I still need to research this more), but that would mean full time development would start July, August, September. Not exactly summer (though September is summer still here in the southwest). And I'd figure the end of October to get it pressed and in my hands (assuming all goes well). I can still start development during the fund raising period as well.
I have one other thing that I need to decided on, pretty quickly; which fund raising site to choose from. There's Indiegogo and there's Kickstarter. Indiegogo allows me to use the funds raised, even if I don't meet my goal. This is both a good and bad thing. If I'm really close to my goal, then it'll still get me through the development time. If I'm not, people will have sort of wasted their money because it won't carry me through for how I'm going about this. On the opposite side, Kickstarter requires me to meet my goal, which in turn makes it a little more reputable for people that what to donate but aren't close to the PCE community. It has a larger exposure and people will tend to help you reach your goal if you're close enough (it builds momentum). And honestly, I'd rather this be an all or nothing sort of thing. I'd hate to have raised half the goal just to have things get delayed quite a bit, because honestly that defeats the whole purpose of how I want to go about this in the first place. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. What are your guys thoughts on this? Of course I've yet to put together a formal presentation on this; I'm feeling you guys out here because you guys would be my initial strongest supporters in all of this.
I havent read through everything in this thread, but I think that its worth a shot if you already have the stages, menus, systems/gameplay, etc planned out and only need to program at this point. And as long as you line up artists beforehand that you know can produce all the assets fast enough to keep up with you. Character designs and general art style should be finalized enough and at least target mockups of the pixel art should be completed before starting, just so that everyone involved is at least progressing in a straight line towards completion with a predetermined amount of work to do.
Very good points. I do have the story arch and character backgrounds fleshed out. Same with gameplay mechanics. I have a very clear idea of what the stages consist of (their layout and design) and how they should look, because they are tied specifically to the story and time-of-year setting (future, collapsed\shrunken civilization). I have a lot of things fleshed out that just need some basic refinement (I don't see a need to change anything at this point). But about artists... yeah. I'm pretty leery about bring people that I don't know on board. My current team consists of just three core people that I know in real life and who live here (a few more extend beyond this, but aren't considered part of the team. Mostly artists and musicians). While we both can handle art, pixel art, and music - I would like to bring more specialized people on board for that. But that is a concern; anybody outside of this team would need to be able to keep up - no excuse. If this is going to be treated in a professional and consolidated, I'll need to be able to rely on such talent that can also treat it as such. None of this; I haven't heard from you in two months - sort of thing. I'm not the greatest of pixel artists, but I'd rather be able to rely on reliable average art and than have people delaying the project or just dropping off altogether. So with that in mind, I'm going forward on this knowing what my team is capable of. If we can bring in people to enhanced these aspects of the game, then by all means I will. But I'm not going to rely on them as an 'all or nothing' sort of thing. I have a fairly clear vision of what the graphics and sound should be, but nothing has been produced for that yet.
That said, if some people are interested, I could use some talent in helping put together some concept art/music for a presentation for the fund raiser and the website (doesn't have to end up in the final projects).
@shubibiman: Thanks :D
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I was thinking. In regards to my suggestion of first starting with a smaller project(for you to see how well you do working on a game with a daily shedule), I'll re-emphasize that it be something that you would enjoy & want to do. Whether it be an old Atari or Arcade favorite, some neato dev utility, or even remake your favorite Mega Man from the ground up on the Turbo(maybe could even use a tweaked version of the engine for your big game).
Then, if you've done this, besides seeing yourself prepared for a schedule of coding, you'd also have something to show if you do indeed decide to do kickstarter. You can say, look, I made a game already, now I want to do something more ambitious & need a lil' help in funding.
This summer is the only time that I can fully dedicate all my time to it. I'll be starting school in the fall, and while I'll still have free time to work on a game then, it wouldn't be the same. Real life stuff will get in the way; stress, part-time job, etc. If I wait, then that means waiting until next summer. School is a huge priority for me and even though the first year is going to be pretty light ('cause I'll just be ramping up) - it still takes priority (it's my future, after all). As far as coding and developing 5 days a week at 10+ hours a day, I've done similar with coding. I've done similar with other stuff as well. Work is work. What I find draining though, is when you finish a 50+ hour week and then try to fit coding in as well as the rest of your life (and time for rest as well). Coding and making music, to me, are very different things. One is a creative process (music) where you make something out of nothing (even if you have a rough idea), and the other is much more straight forward (you already know what you need, you just need to build it). Working with assembly, I don't have to be 'tricky' per se. Unless I'm trying to do something that's pretty close to the system's resource limit. So in that respect, it's just a matter of constructing what I need. Despite my.. reputation, for lack of a better word, of wanting to push the system hard beyond its limits, I just want to make a game. I'm not concerned with incredible special effects or such at this point. I just want to make something that's fun to play and feels like it came from that era. If I had a choice between crazy special effects, or much more content (hidden area, unlockable stuff, etc) - I'd choose the latter. If I had a whole year, I'd definitely make something visually spectacular, but I don't have that kind of time. That's not to say that I won't add some fluff here and there, just not overboard.
If it's going to be PCE exclusive, the Kickstarter will be asking a lot of everyone here. I can't imagine outside crowds really diving aboard.
I wouldn't initially be getting funding from the Kickstarter crowd to begin with. From what I've read, it's up the person of the Kickstarter project to go out and get as much exposure to the project as possible. Simply just starting a Kickstarter project means nothing. I mean, there is a community for Kickstarter, but only popular projects get those kinds of attention. Where Kickstarter shines (supposedly), is that there's a certain reputation around Kickstarter as opposed to just putting up a website of your own with a donation button; it's seen as a much more serious approach. It's seen that if you don't make your goal, in which YOU have to work for by promoting and such, you don't get any of the funds. That kind of instills some faith that you're more serious about the project and aren't just interested in taking the money and running (as opposed to Indiegogo where you get everything anybody puts in). You're more op'd to get more people to contribute to the project funding that aren't directly interested in the project, as well. There's just this certain legitimacy about it that draws people in.
But yeah, as far as it being PCE exclusive - not really. I mean sure, it is, but being on CD medium means it can be played on almost any PCE emulator for PC or such. I won't be putting in emulator specific blocks/protection. This is such a small project, that I'm not concerned with piracy. I wanna make this game and I want it on a pressed CD with a manual and case.
I can't say I myself would be enthusiastic about giving out extra money for a self imposed deadline so that living expenses can be covered when there is no guarantee that the project will in fact see completion by said deadline.
I can definitely understand that. But from what I've read on the Kickstarter FAQ, there are legalities for project deadlines and promises (promises to backers that give specific amounts to receive rewards). Which is why I haven't just jumped into it, just yet. And which is why I haven't set anything in stone yet either. 3 solid months would bite a huge chunk of time out of the development process, but I'm not going to put the deadline as that. It's an important part of my plan no doubt, and it essential IMO, but I need to make sure I have my ass covered so that I can pull this off. Which is one of the reason why I'm proposing this here, first. I'm trying to foresee any problems that might delay.. well, anything. Internally, I want this game finished and into the final beta testing by the end of August. Something like $6k might even be too little for something this ambitious. It might be something more realistic to have a deadline of 6 months, with the first 3 months dedicated to full time development and the next three months for testing, tweaking, and pressing (seeing as how long they seem to take when they run into problems at the pressing house).
Sometimes time IS a good thing, especially when you're dealing with something creative. You can avoid burn-out and develop better ideas - gameplay, visuals, level design, music etc. How many professionally released games suck because of a refusal to release 'when it's ready'? Homebrew has an advantage in not having enforced deadlines. I'm pretty sure people lose interest in projects not because of the time, but due to stalling, team members vanishing for ages, lack of updates for the team to see etc. I'd rather you set a good, steady pace than feel you have to finish by day X. We'll all get a much better end result because of it.
No, that's a good point. I remember reading recently, that developer joking said that a game is divided into two parts; the first 90% and he second 90%. The first 90% in getting the game developed, the second 90% in polishing it into an enjoyable/fun game. That said, I think too much time can also hinder a game. I'm sure OldRover is sooo sick of just dealing with MSR, or was at some point. I think you can burn out from something taking too long as well.
Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. Negative and positive; keep 'em coming (even if I seem a little defensive or tend to explain myself, I do really appreciate it and I do take them seriously). Matter of fact, while I love the positive feedback - I think the grounded or negative feedback is probably most helpful. I'm all gun-ho about this, so some more grounded points of view are pretty helpful.
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School is a huge priority for me and even though the first year is going to be pretty light ('cause I'll just be ramping up) - it still takes priority (it's my future, after all). As far as coding and developing 5 days a week at 10+ hours a day, I've done similar with coding....What I find draining though, is when you finish a 50+ hour week and then try to fit coding in as well as the rest of your life (and time for rest as well).
This is why you do things at your leisure in your free time, for better or worse. Remeber: Insanity was done in <1 year while I was still in college AND working. The point is that its supposed to be fun, and about the console in question.
Despite my.. reputation, for lack of a better word, of wanting to push the system hard beyond its limits, I just want to make a game. I'm not concerned with incredible special effects or such at this point. I just want to make something that's fun to play and feels like it came from that era. If I had a choice between crazy special effects, or much more content (hidden area, unlockable stuff, etc) - I'd choose the latter. If I had a whole year, I'd definitely make something visually spectacular, but I don't have that kind of time. That's not to say that I won't add some fluff here and there, just not overboard.
This is another thing though. Your reputation thus far is mostly just techdemos and things that aren't even finished. You don't have any previous games to demonstrate that you can get the whole thing done in a sane timeframe, let alone a few months of fevered coding. People who look into what you've done previously may notice this and be pretty much against giving you any money.
Research the Kickstarters some more. You'll see they all plan things out for a year or more. Saying your deadline is 3-6 months is going to make people think you're huffing paint thinner.
You're more op'd to get more people to contribute to the project funding that aren't directly interested in the project, as well. There's just this certain legitimacy about it that draws people in.
This doesn't exactly apply to video games. You make it sound as if there are people on Kickstarter who just thrust money at people because its Kickstarter. If people don't want a PC Engine CD game, they aren't likely to pledge, or if they do, they won't pledge much, because the prizes for high pledge amounts won't really excite them.
And again, don't forget, the prizes had better be good. They're also not free, so you will be losing pizza money to all the prizes you need to produce.
You typically need to tell them what the funding is for. If you tell them the majority of the funding is going into feeding you while you make a game for a console they've never heard of, they're going to bail. Pressing CDs (depending on the manual size) costs 1000-3000$, generally. Depending on the quantity, it may be higher.
But yeah, as far as it being PCE exclusive - not really. I mean sure, it is, but being on CD medium means it can be played on almost any PCE emulator for PC or such. I won't be putting in emulator specific blocks/protection. This is such a small project, that I'm not concerned with piracy. I wanna make this game and I want it on a pressed CD with a manual and case.
You're assuming people who aren't PCE loyalists will be cool with having to dick around with emulators just to play this game after giving you money. This includes them having to locate a Super System Card ROM, which means you'll be encouraging them to do something that isn't legal and often requires going to janked up sites.
I can definitely understand that. But from what I've read on the Kickstarter FAQ, there are legalities for project deadlines and promises (promises to backers that give specific amounts to receive rewards). Which is why I haven't just jumped into it, just yet. And which is why I haven't set anything in stone yet either. 3 solid months would bite a huge chunk of time out of the development process, but I'm not going to put the deadline as that. It's an important part of my plan no doubt, and it essential IMO, but I need to make sure I have my ass covered so that I can pull this off. Which is one of the reason why I'm proposing this here, first. I'm trying to foresee any problems that might delay.. well, anything. Internally, I want this game finished and into the final beta testing by the end of August. Something like $6k might even be too little for something this ambitious. It might be something more realistic to have a deadline of 6 months, with the first 3 months dedicated to full time development and the next three months for testing, tweaking, and pressing (seeing as how long they seem to take when they run into problems at the pressing house).
You've never completed a game before (I don't think?), so you really don't have alot of experience with gauging how much time/effort is going to go into the entire thing.
It's kinda like you built a wing suit that you've never tested before, and now you're running at the Grand Canyon with your arms spread out, hoping you won't splatter yourself all over the rocks at the bottom.... instead of jumping off a roof or something first to see if it works out.
Honestly, if you aren't in it for fun, you shouldn't really be doing it for PCE. Homebrew for a 25 year old console has no business being approached from a "professional" standpoint with fixed deadlines and funding and such. It's supposed to be fun and exciting for all who are involved.
I mean, if you aren't doing it for profit, it's not really "professional" anyways. You're just setting up senseless deadlines because you want to, and asking people to pay to feed you while you do it. To me, that kind of slaps everyone else who does this stuff in the face.
Anyway, You're going to lose alot of the funding to Kickstarter's cut that they take, your artists, whoever else you get to collaborate with you (assuming they get chiptunes/songs/whatever done within the time constraints), production costs for the CDs, and costs to make all of the rewards. And, Kickstarters with crappy rewards don't get funding. They get people who pledge 1$ to make fun of the project until its almost over and then they retract their 1$ and go troll a different project.
So, I am still leaning towards you scrapping this Kickstarter idea before you stick your neck out there and get decapitated. Just start the damn game project, give the PCE community periodic updates and such, and when the thing is good to go, tell us here and ask for some preorder funding. You'll probably get enough to cover CD pressing in <1 week.
I mean, that's worked for TWO games. Then Pyramid Plunder, we were able to front the cost up front for it...
and Revival Chase was able to just get itself pressed out with none of this foofoo Kickstarter business.
Noone else does it, because you don't need to. These games are for the fans of the system in question. Those fans will cover you when you actually need the funds. We're the ones who actually give a shit. People waited 1.21 jiggayears for MSR to come out. They'll wait for something from you.
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STATUS: I'm in PCE for the long term. I don't care if projects take years—I just want them to come to fruition eventually.
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For what it's worth, Revival Chase was reportedly banged out in three months, so it can be done and still be good/fun.
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For what it's worth, Revival Chase was reportedly banged out in three months, so it can be done and still be good/fun.
Correct. The dude that wrote it is insanely good at doing games rapidly! :)
...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
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And again, don't forget, the prizes had better be good. They're also not free, so you will be losing pizza money to all the prizes you need to produce.
I would recommend not doing lots of prizes and stretch goals. I know a number of small, successful Kickstarters that raised the necessary funds and more with basically no stretch goals. Everything was laid out clearly. "Here is what we are doing. This is what you are paying for. Here's what work has been done so far and what your contributions will allow us to finish. If we go over, great! More people get our product!"
Trying to win backers with crazy bonuses is actually a really bad idea, because then you have all this other crap you have to do in the same time frame, which already sounds pretty darn compressed. Skip the little trinkets and bonuses. Nobody who's really interested in what you are doing will miss them.
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I would recommend not doing lots of prizes and stretch goals. I know a number of small, successful Kickstarters that raised the necessary funds and more with basically no stretch goals. Everything was laid out clearly. "Here is what we are doing. This is what you are paying for. Here's what work has been done so far and what your contributions will allow us to finish. If we go over, great! More people get our product!"
Yes, but were these Kickstarters targeting a fairly niche market that has ~300 people who actually care, half of which won't bother to help? Outside of a normal purchase price, you'd need some decent incentive to give more, or very generous people...
Trying to win backers with crazy bonuses is actually a really bad idea, because then you have all this other crap you have to do in the same time frame, which already sounds pretty darn compressed. Skip the little trinkets and bonuses. Nobody who's really interested in what you are doing will miss them.
That's actually how a lot of Kickstarters succeed, is the rewards and stretch goals...
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That's actually how a lot of Kickstarters succeed, is the rewards and stretch goals...
It's also one of the critical factors behind why so many Kickstarter projects are a 6 - 18 months late. No, every rational, reasoned analysis of Kickstarter projects I've read, by outsiders and the Kickstartees themselves, has blamed stretch goals and rewards for both delays and funding problems. It's one thing to over-commit with the project itself, but if you're over-committed on the project you're likely to over-commit on everything else, too, so if there's a problem, all the extras just magnify those problems out of proportion.
Given your existing concerns about his ability to deliver on a timetable, even if he does go full dev mode over a summer, lots of flashy extras are the LAST thing he should be considering adding to a Kickstarter.
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Delays != failed Kickstarter.
Those rewards are what attract people who would otherwise just blow the thing off. If there is a funding problem, that's your fault. Do better math when you plan out everything's cost.
You have to reward people for the various tiers. Otherwise, why have tiers at all? Heck, why even have a Kickstarter?
Just setup a donate button and cross your fingers.
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
I can't get it to work. #%*(#@#!!!!!
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
I can't get it to work. #%*(#@#!!!!!
You have to be using a turbo tap and a duo tap at the same time.
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
Next you'll claim that it also has a hidden parallax filled horizontal shooter with Super Contra III quality graphics.
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
Next you'll claim that it also has a hidden parallax filled horizontal shooter with Super Contra III ripped graphics.
fixed that for you.
:D
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
Next you'll claim that it also has a hidden parallax filled horizontal shooter with Super Contra III ripped graphics.
fixed that for you.
:D
Grrrrrrr :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
:mrgreen:
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...but, Lock n' Chase is considerably less involved than a Metroidvania style game.
Not true! Revival Chase actually has a hidden Metroidvania bonus game. Just press down + I at the title screen while pressing left on controller #2. Simultaneously, hold IV, Select, + II on controller #5 and press left, right, left, U/L, D/R and II five times on controller #1. You'll hear a "beep" indicating that you've activated the code!
Next you'll claim that it also has a hidden parallax filled horizontal shooter with Super Contra III ripped graphics.
fixed that for you.
:D
Grrrrrrr :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
:mrgreen:
It's ok, it's not like its a bad thing for a surprise easter egg. :)
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Don't worry ark, it's ok ;-)
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Don't worry ark, it's ok ;-)
I can't think of a better game to rip graphics from for a scrolly shooter though. :)
Contra is awesome.
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Yes this game is awesome, but i'am a little lazy sometimes, and an original background would have taken too long to do ..
BTW,BT sent me a very good re-colorised version of this background ..
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STATUS on TANGENT above: So, I still need to get Revival Chase HQ and Pyramid Plunder Patrol. Damn. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
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Took some time to think this over. Doesn't look like I can probably raise the funds in time for a summer of pure coding bliss. But that's ok. Still gonna setup an Indiegogo for the Megaman clone game development. I figured I'll hit more than just PCE fans; there's a much larger MM fanbase than PCE fanbase I can probably tap into (though PCE/TG16 is the only platform for now). Not that, that was the original plan - but why not take advantage of it? The idea can still be applied to when I'm attending school. I.e. use it to allocate my free time for game development. If it doesn't go anywhere (Indiegogo), then no harm/ no foul.
Anyway, this: http://pcedev.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/homebrew/
Thanks for the input :D
If/when I setup the Indiegogo account, I'll post a link. Meantime, this MM ball needs to get rolling.
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Sign me up for a copy of whatever you make. Shewtie or MM clone, I want em all :D
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...Meantime, this MM ball needs to get rolling.
Splendid new, comrade. Splendid. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
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Sign me up for a copy of whatever you make. Shewtie or MM clone, I want em all :D
^^This.^^
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Took some time to think this over. Doesn't look like I can probably raise the funds in time for a summer of pure coding bliss. But that's ok. Still gonna setup an Indiegogo for the Megaman clone game development. I figured I'll hit more than just PCE fans; there's a much larger MM fanbase than PCE fanbase I can probably tap into (though PCE/TG16 is the only platform for now). Not that, that was the original plan - but why not take advantage of it? The idea can still be applied to when I'm attending school. I.e. use it to allocate my free time for game development. If it doesn't go anywhere (Indiegogo), then no harm/ no foul.
Anyway, this: http://pcedev.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/homebrew/
Thanks for the input :D
If/when I setup the Indiegogo account, I'll post a link. Meantime, this MM ball needs to get rolling.
For the MM Castleroid game, how difficult would it be to have a mini map that's onscreen at all time, or is that not in the plans?
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I'm in no way claiming that porting a PC Engine game to the Sega Genesis CD is an easy, workless task, but what about doing a Super CDROM game + a Sega CD port on the same disk? I might be saying something too big to be done in a reasonable timeframe, but it would surely attract the massive Pier Solar crowd...
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I'm in no way claiming that porting a PC Engine game to the Sega Genesis CD is an easy, workless task, but what about doing a Super CDROM game + a Sega CD port on the same disk? I might be saying something too big to be done in a reasonable timeframe, but it would surely attract the massive Pier Solar crowd...
Lets concentrate on getting a game done for the target system before we talk about porting it to a system with completely different architecture.
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I'm in no way claiming that porting a PC Engine game to the Sega Genesis CD is an easy, workless task, but what about doing a Super CDROM game + a Sega CD port on the same disk? I might be saying something too big to be done in a reasonable timeframe, but it would surely attract the massive Pier Solar crowd...
A big chunk of that massive Pier Solar crowd is collectors who have never fired up the game. You could literally print labels on blank discs and release limited edition packaging and much of that crowd would never mnow the difference.
But Sega-CD games will never be as popular as cart releases and I don't think that Oh Mummy! attracted that massive crowd, because Pier Solar hasn't sold well simply by being Genesis software.
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Pier Solar also carries years of hype and followers, ever since Tavern RPG was a thing.
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For the MM Castleroid game, how difficult would it be to have a mini map that's onscreen at all time, or is that not in the plans?
Not difficult at all. But I was thinking subscreen, unless there's a demand for on screen map.
I'm in no way claiming that porting a PC Engine game to the Sega Genesis CD is an easy, workless task, but what about doing a Super CDROM game + a Sega CD port on the same disk? I might be saying something too big to be done in a reasonable timeframe, but it would surely attract the massive Pier Solar crowd...
Yeah, while the idea is cool (and completely doable. I've made some demos discs that boot on both systems from a single CD) - I think it would be a bit of a waste in the end. I've coded for the Genesis, it's damn easy system to code for, but I think 'ports' would be kinda of... meh. Which system would have the original game? Assuming PCE, that means the SegaCD would have the port. I'm sure Sega fans would rather have an original game made for that system rather than just some port.
Anyway, I don't think this funding thing is going to get off the ground. So I'm just gonna have to fun the MM Castlevania myself; with making some other games for PCE. I have a mature shmup engine that I'm continuing working on and I also have a MM engine that working on (recently started). They'll be cut down, short-ish, style games. I'll probably be doing all the music and graphics myself. If I can get enough funds from this, then I use that to work on my original game idea for the fall (maybe pay to bring in some artists and musicians too).
I don't know if any of you guys remember the 'alu-card' I made last year (there's a post on it here), but I'm gonna make a few more. I'm gonna anodize them and such. The tips will be coated so that they don't make contact or short the system. They'll be one of a kind deals. I'm looking into having them laser etched too (a logo on them. There's a place in town that does it). They won't be cheap to make. Anyway, I'll have more on that later. I'll also be doing some aluminum two piece machined molds for hucard plastic. I'm currently saving up for this (this stuff gets expensive, even doing most of the work myself). I'll be selling off some games too, to raise money for this. Anyway, that's the update.
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Most ambitious guy on Earth.
Between this hype and the Laseractive homebrew, it would be pretty impressive if either got out the door.
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If you can't get a working mini-map, that can be turned on or off while the player is running around, due to a hardware limitation, you could always make a hybrid game that has extra features when played on a SuperGrafx.
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...Anyway, I don't think this funding thing is going to get off the ground. So I'm just gonna have to fun the MM Castlevania myself; with making some other games for PCE...
Comrade, I will send you $$$ simply as a token of thanks for your past efforts. PM me here or via PC-Engine dev... (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
Also, I would help out in any way I could (sure, I may be an ignoramus, but, for example, I could make a promotional video...OR NOT, whatever you deem more helpful to The Cause). Yeah, I suppose I'm pretty useless at this point... (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
For the MM Castleroid game, how difficult would it be to have a mini map that's onscreen at all time, or is that not in the plans?
Not difficult at all. But I was thinking subscreen, unless there's a demand for on screen map.
I vote "subscreen" unless an onscreen map is genuinely unobtrusive and not "too cheaty"...it depends on the level designs (if they are cruel, I can see some of our weaker comrades clamoring for maps, flan, and unlimited continues. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.html)
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If you can't get a working mini-map, that can be turned on or off while the player is running around, due to a hardware limitation, you could always make a hybrid game that has extra features when played on a SuperGrafx.
'
I'd personally love a minimap, it's be great to have, but I won't riot in the streets if it doesn't happen.
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I vote "subscreen" unless an onscreen map is genuinely unobtrusive and not "too cheaty"...it depends on the level designs (if they are cruel, I can see some of our weaker comrades clamoring for maps, flan, and unlimited continues.
My vote's with yours, Esteban.