The typical bitch, using teenage boys to get her news stories, knowing full well she will never give it up to the boys. She just don't cut 'em no slack. ;)
On the tight controls issue. It took me a bit to get used to Armored Warriors control scheme. I'm very much into it now, yet I still prefer the burly guy/hot chick walk and sock 'em approach.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 12, 2013, 05:03:07 AM
yeah right, donatello jams his bo up her ass every night while Raphael cries in the corner because noone likes his shitty weapons.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: exodus on August 12, 2013, 07:38:59 AM
wow, this thread quickly turned into a place I never want to be.
y'all could maybe grow up a little.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: KingDrool on August 12, 2013, 07:57:17 AM
I wish we had more beat 'em ups on the Turbob/PCE.... Even some generic Genesis games like POW or even Two Crude Dudes or something....
Also, I believe Exodus has been around for some time.
Hack N Slash and Beat 'em ups were for sure better represented in the other consoles. Hopefully some sort of Homebrew effort will help those gaps in the near to long term future :mrgreen:
;) again for Exodus
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 12, 2013, 10:53:13 AM
wow, this thread quickly turned into a place I never want to be. Better than Battletoads. Or worse the ill fated cartoon pilot.
y'all could maybe grow up a little.
It's hard to grow up when we're talking about Ninja Turtles and video games.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Black Tiger on August 12, 2013, 01:13:53 PM
What I've always thought would be perfect for a beat 'em up, is an ACD game with a unique sprite for every enemy. Maybe a couple guards or a group in military gear now and then would look the same. Perhaps the unique enemies could be cobbled together by a decent assortment of torso, arms, legs and just have entirely unique heads, in order to keep enough memory for stunning backgrounds.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: exodus on August 12, 2013, 01:53:33 PM
as the person who wrote this, I'm gonna peace out of these forums for a while. any woman looking at this thread would instantly know she's not welcome. have fun with that!
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/173227/
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 12, 2013, 02:31:51 PM
What I've always thought would be perfect for a beat 'em up, is an ACD game with a unique sprite for every enemy. Maybe a couple guards or a group in military gear now and then would look the same. Perhaps the unique enemies could be cobbled together by a decent assortment of torso, arms, legs and just have entirely unique heads, in order to keep enough memory for stunning backgrounds.
Would that allow one to show cosmetic changes like armor upgrades and what not?
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: bob on August 12, 2013, 02:43:33 PM
Even some generic Genesis games like POW or even Two Crude Dudes or something....
Wait, is there a POW port for genny?
No, I don't think so- but I seem to remember something like "G.R.O.W.L." or some brawler that was some mindless fun... wish we had more of that in OBEYland
as the person who wrote this, I'm gonna peace out of these forums for a while. any woman looking at this thread would instantly know she's not welcome. have fun with that!
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/173227/
exodus, I think that's jumping the gun a bit- I know of one (perhaps more?) female poster on this forum that would simply know when someone is joking and I would consider them to be pretty good friends even after sharing a few forum jabs at one another.
Where did that "Game of the Week Club" thread go anyway? :P
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: bob on August 13, 2013, 02:56:43 AM
Quote from: _joshuaTurbo
exodus, I think that's jumping the gun a bit- I know of one (perhaps more?) female poster on this forum that would simply know when someone is joking and I would consider them to be pretty good friends even after sharing a few forum jabs at one another.
Where did that "Game of the Week Club" thread go anyway? :P
I wouldnt bother responding to him. He clearly "peaced out". Besides, i feel like that link was trying to cleanse this place or something. That was one of the most horrible pieces of shit i have ever read half of.
TITS!
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Gillian Seed on August 13, 2013, 03:03:07 AM
4-player, RPG, street fighter moves, loot that you fight over, multiple paths, lots of environmental weapons, Double Dragon Neon-like soundtrack.
I think I might be asking too much from the PCE though :P
Are you?
I don't know. I assume a 4-player beat em' up would be very demanding of any system from the time, and to correct myself it should be a 5-player game :P
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 13, 2013, 03:21:38 AM
A PCE brawler is more constricted by sprite size than inputs. A four-player brawler with Riot Zone sized sprites on the PCE is impossible even on the SGX just due to the sheer number of pixels being thrown around; Riot City would become Flicker City and it wouldn't be any fun to play. Make the sprites small (say, 32x32 sprite blocks) and a four-player brawler is perfectly doable.
And boobs. I don't care who doesn't like it. Boobs. f*ck the manginas and Anita Sarkesians of the world.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Necromancer on August 13, 2013, 03:52:44 AM
And boobs. I don't care who doesn't like it. Boobs. f*ck the manginas and Anita Sarkesians of the world.
Amen. Besides, male protagonists are treated similarly as hulking beefcakes with skin tight clothes or in a loin cloth and topless, yet zero f*cks are given.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on August 13, 2013, 04:20:08 AM
A PCE brawler is more constricted by sprite size than inputs. A four-player brawler with Riot Zone sized sprites on the PCE is impossible even on the SGX just due to the sheer number of pixels being thrown around; Riot City would become Flicker City and it wouldn't be any fun to play. Make the sprites small (say, 32x32 sprite blocks) and a four-player brawler is perfectly doable.
And boobs. I don't care who doesn't like it. Boobs. f*ck the manginas and Anita Sarkesians of the world.
Next project! Sign me up for voice acting!!
*TWISTER!*
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 13, 2013, 04:53:33 AM
as the person who wrote this, I'm gonna peace out of these forums for a while. any woman looking at this thread would instantly know she's not welcome. have fun with that!
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/173227/
On the contrary, my girlfriend laughed at me posting about Donatello jamming his bo staff up April's ass. She said that is what she gets for teasing the poor, dickless TMNTs with her reporter outfit that's never buttoned.
Don't you think it's a bit sexist to think all females are politically correct pansies that are afraid of anything that isn't toddler friendly?
That whole female-game-argument is retarded.
Females are misrepresented: Uh, they've had Samus Aran representing females since the 80s. She's one of the best protagonists ever made. Roberta Williams: Duhr. Games. Boobies/Skimpy outfits: Ever walk outside? Some chicks dress skimpy. They cosplay with their tits out. They pose for facebook photos with their racks sticking out and angled down. Some chicks play shooters, enjoy killing stuff, blowing stuff up, swearing, and Tomb Raider.
also, believe it or not, when you're exerting yourself, you often sound like you're giving or receiving some kind of sexual thing. It's probably hard to believe for someone who's never done anything but write poorly thought out, accusatory articles on the internet.
I want to be Lara Croft. She can swan dive off 300 foot tall cliffs with perfect precision, and backflip while shooting dinosaurs with double-glocks. So what if she's stacked and wears tight clothes. Not all females are flat chested. If you've got huge boobs, everyone's going to know unless you wear a tent for a shirt. Would you rather she wear drapey clothes so she has no freedom of movement and gets her tarpy pants caught in a trap as shes trying to run through a room? That'd be cool.
Person 1: "How'd Lara die?"
Person 2:"Oh, well, her pant leg got caught on this swinging blade trap and she got flung into a wall and fell 700 feet to her death!"
Person 1: "Well, why was she wearing dangly clothes? Why wasn't she wearing something made for movement, like tight pants or shorts?"
Person 2: "Because some pussies on the internet might take offense if you can see her legs."
Way to see the entire thing from one shitty, rose tinted glasses point of view. You don't seem to understand that there are a lot of females who disagree with your article and think the entire problem is only a problem because some crybabies said it is. So, you're basically trying to convince the people you're trying to protect that there is something wrong. Good luck with that.
Kinda ironic that your name is exodus.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 13, 2013, 05:18:21 AM
People who bitch about women in video games need a more relevant hobby. If you don't like how it works, make something different. The rest of us aren't going to bend to your hypersensitive bitchfest. If I wanna make a game with ten chicks with massive naked tits, I'm going to, and there's not a f*ck in the world anyone can do about it. Don't like it? Don't play it or buy it. My art won't be stifled by your puritanical bullshit. I like boobs and butts in my video games, and I don't care about your opinion.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 13, 2013, 05:19:35 AM
They already made Pia Carrot, dude.
lolol
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Gillian Seed on August 13, 2013, 05:24:17 AM
I don't really agree with either side. I think it's okay when it's just harmless jokes, but I also think it's fair to criticize the portrayal of most women in video games.
Less fighting, more talking about the 4 or 5-player PCE game Old Rover is going to make :P
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 13, 2013, 06:25:28 AM
They can criticize all they want... if it sells, it's what gets made. It's obviously what people want, or else we'd all be buying games with flat-chested chicks in summer dresses... oh wait, they would criticize that too. There's no pleasing these f*cktards. Hey... that's why we do whatever we f*cking want to do. :)
Four-player chick slugfest ftw. For teh PCE. f*ck yeah. :lol:
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 13, 2013, 06:45:24 AM
games with flat-chested chicks in summer dresses...
She's in every dating sim, dude!
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 14, 2013, 05:18:27 AM
I think if Exodus hung out here more he'd realize that all that nasty middle school shit you guys posted wasn't so much sexist or misogynist as much as it was just crude and idiotic.
You guys aren't bad, you're just socially retarded animals not fit to integrate into regular society. :)
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 14, 2013, 05:23:23 AM
I think if Exodus hung out here more he'd realize that all that nasty middle school shit you guys posted wasn't so much sexist or misogynist as much as it was just crude and idiotic.
You guys aren't bad, you're just socially retarded animals not fit to integrate into regular society. :)
Society is retarded. f*ck that crap!
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 14, 2013, 05:48:53 AM
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 14, 2013, 05:50:37 AM
Next would be the setting!
Fantasy Futuristic Current - Riot City, RC Ramson, Double Dragons
I like the fantasy setting, but that's just cause I've been geeking out on D&D and Knights of the Round. A futuristic one could be cool, but I'd go more along the Konami route for characters and overall crazy tone of the beat 'em up. Maybe.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Gillian Seed on August 14, 2013, 06:03:53 AM
Got to go Cyber Punk.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: TheClash603 on August 14, 2013, 04:44:32 PM
1.) I like seeing life bars with fun character names. Final Fight was awesome, because every enemy was a character.
2.) I love my game to be in an urban slum.
3.) Weapons are awesome. More pick ups = better.
4.) Branching paths.
5.) Bonus stages.
6.) Multiple characters w/ some unlockable that join as you go and you switch between stages.
7.) Nevermind this tit stuff, I want to look at some cunts.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: vestcoat on August 14, 2013, 09:30:52 PM
They can criticize all they want... if it sells, it's what gets made. It's obviously what people want, or else we'd all be buying games with flat-chested chicks in summer dresses... oh wait, they would criticize that too. There's no pleasing these f*cktards. Hey... that's why we do whatever we f*cking want to do. :)
Four-player chick slugfest ftw. For teh PCE. f*ck yeah. :lol:
I don't care about video game imagery and Exodus is overly sensitive because he doesn't know us, but we'd do well to tone down the sexist bullshit around here.
Knowing good 'ol irreverent Arkhan is actually a well-adjusted human being, we can laugh at his jokes, but the problem with the internet is there's always some creep like Xray lurking around who feeds on sexist/racist/homophobic sarcasm and takes it one step further.
With violence against women escalating all over the planet, rape in the news everyday, and an endless parade of right-wing politicians blaming the victims, I'm ready to draw the line when I hear "bitch" and "whore."
Thoughts become our words and words become our actions. Obviously, a person has to make a lot of wrong turns before they go out and rape someone, but there's no doubt they spend a long time dehumanizing women in their words and on the internet first. Let's show some goddamn sensitivity and not encourage them.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 14, 2013, 10:30:46 PM
With violence against women escalating all over the planet,
This, thankfully, isn't even close to true. There was a time when 1/4 of the population of Virginia was female slave. How much raping and violence do you think was happening back then compared to now?
I do agree with your basic sentiment. The whole "we are all socially elevated so we can act like chauvinist cavemen" thing is tired as shit. Some call it "hipster racism/sexism".
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 15, 2013, 04:33:33 AM
Anyone who calls it hipster racism/sexism should really learn what the word "hipster" means before putting it in front of basically anything in an attempt to make the thing seem lame.
Also, I ain't toning shit down. It's not racism/sexism when you also make comments about being a homo and loving dick.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: bob on August 15, 2013, 05:24:40 AM
... learn what the word "hipster" means before putting it in front of basically anything in an attempt to make the thing seem lame.
AMEN, brother! Its funny when hipsters use the word hipster in a negative fashion.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 15, 2013, 07:58:25 AM
"Hipster racism" is literally the most perfect word I can think of to describe what I'm talking about. This ironically detached "post-everything" attitude where nothing anywhere in human history deserves respect. Its a place where David Lee Roth and MLK have something in common; they exist purely to me mocked, like everything else.
Spoiled punks who think that because Wikpedia exists they can know everything and know that everything deserves to be mocked. However, since we're talking about privileged American white bratts who haven't lived large or long enough to ever experince...basically anything in their lives, they really don't know anything except what they've read or saw on Youtube and haven't earned the right to be above jack shit.
http://meloukhia.net/2009/07/hipster_racism.html
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 15, 2013, 08:12:31 AM
"Hipster racism" is literally the most perfect word I can think of to describe what I'm talking about. This ironically detached "post-everything" attitude where nothing anywhere in human history deserves respect. Its a place where David Lee Roth and MLK have something in common; they exist purely to me mocked, like everything else.
and apparently, Ninja Turtles. Nothing like offending pretend characters.
Quote
Spoiled punks who think that because Wikpedia exists they can know everything and know that everything deserves to be mocked. However, since we're talking about privileged American white bratts who haven't lived large or long enough to ever experince...basically anything in their lives, they really don't know anything except what they've read or saw on Youtube and haven't earned the right to be above jack shit. http://meloukhia.net/2009/07/hipster_racism.html
I am not sure this is quite the reason for what you're accusing people of.
Also, your assumption that everyone doing it is a white youth really defeats the purpose of what you're stating. Unless the best way to counter this supposed hipster racism is to use racial/social class profiling.
So what is it called when you're white and you exchange racist jokes with a black person? Do the hipster racisms cancel either out?
and what's it called when you have old people doing it? and adults? and people who were there?
I didn't know you had to earn the right to make stupid comments/jokes.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 15, 2013, 08:14:22 AM
A HIPSTER beat 'em up in a post-industrial or Techno-scavenger society, setting! Can you imagine all the mainstream media things one could add in the backgrounds and all the obscure references one could make to gaming history??
edit: the enemies are dressed like hipsters and bros.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 15, 2013, 08:18:04 AM
Characters:
Arkface as the US player Tatsu as the Giant Gaijin with soft JP zen like tendencies Some tough hot looking chick for the fan service. Pic yer Archetype from any number of Vs games. An "ALIEN" stranded on planet dump earth
hmm what else?
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: bob on August 15, 2013, 08:21:53 AM
Nobody "earns" the right to be above anybody else. People just seem to "think" they are above/below another individual for some reason.
Everybody was born naked and crying. Whoever wrote that article may have gotten dressed, but still sounds like crying. Who is anybody to define what is humorous to anyone else? Hipster racism is a dumb term. Doesnt mean anything.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 15, 2013, 08:50:01 AM
Nobody "earns" the right to be above anybody else. People just seem to "think" they are above/below another individual for some reason.
Everybody was born naked and crying. Whoever wrote that article may have gotten dressed, but still sounds like crying. Who is anybody to define what is humorous to anyone else? Hipster racism is a dumb term. Doesnt mean anything.
one of the funniest times I ever had was exchanging racist jokes with a black dude on a bus to school. He really liked when I told him how you circumsize a redneck.
You uppercut his sister.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: roflmao on August 15, 2013, 04:19:54 PM
one of the funniest times I ever had was exchanging racist jokes with a black dude on a bus to school. He really liked when I told him how you circumsize a redneck.
You uppercut his sister.
Lol! I instantly thought of this Jane's Addiction/Bodycount song (originally by Sly and the Family Stone)
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: spenoza on August 16, 2013, 04:40:50 PM
Besides, i feel like that link was trying to cleanse this place or something. That was one of the most horrible pieces of shit i have ever read half of.
It was actually a very well-written and researched piece. The Male Gaze is a well-recognized theory in creative and artistic fields that's even been applied to traditional painting and sculpture. Besides, he's not asserting that every bit of boob and butt is somehow verboten. It is more about the omnipresence and pervasiveness of a kind of subconscious sexism.
Disagree with his argument, fine, but the article is a pretty good one, whether you agree or not.
I also love the whole "I know a woman who agrees with me!" thing that happens whenever gender or sexism or whatever comes up on this forum. I make this mistake sometimes, too, but that doesn't mean it actually counts for anything.
It is a little odd that he'd point to his article as having anything to do with his discomfort with the direction the thread was going, though. I mean, I guess it's related, but coupling self-promotion with "change your evil ways" is never a good recipe. I always prefer "change your evil ways because I say so and I'm right, dammit!"
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: VenomMacbeth on August 16, 2013, 10:22:18 PM
If people think this "subconscious sexism" is bad in video games, they should turn on a f*cking television. Hardee's commercials are some of the most disgusting I've ever seen (and not just because of the scantly clad women...I can't stand food/eating noises.)
The fact is, the primary demographic of video games consists of MEN, and men (in general) like boobs & butts. The games wouldn't sell if they didn't. It's no different from movies; they make movies with explosions, guns, cars, and lots and lots of tits & ass...for GUYS. They make Lifetime movies for gals. I'm sure there are plenty of gals that like the former, and guys that like the latter, but this argument has an answer, and it's that no matter what the hell you do, you're probably going to offend somebody.
So shut up & enjoy your sexified ladies, or lifetime movie. Whatever bothers you the least. Personally, I think they should be combined. I wanna see a compelling ending scene where the guy flags the woman down at the airport just as she's about to get on that one-way flight, then she runs dramatically back into his arms for that romantic "you really do care!" kiss...then the plane explodes a la Michael Bay, she strips down to her tiny, tiny undies, and eats a big, fat double bacon cheeseburger off the hood of a '68 Chevelle.
[/kidding]
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: spenoza on August 17, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
Personally, I think they should be combined. I wanna see a compelling ending scene where the guy flags the woman down at the airport just as she's about to get on that one-way flight, then she runs dramatically back into his arms for that romantic "you really do care!" kiss...then the plane explodes a la Michael Bay, she strips down to her tiny, tiny undies, and eats a big, fat double bacon cheeseburger off the hood of a '68 Chevelle.
I would watch this. I would probably watch it over and over and over.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 18, 2013, 09:15:27 AM
I don't care about video game imagery and Exodus is overly sensitive because he doesn't know us, but we'd do well to tone down the sexist bullshit around here.
With violence against women escalating all over the planet, rape in the news everyday, and an endless parade of right-wing politicians blaming the victims, I'm ready to draw the line when I hear "bitch" and "whore."
This is media circus hooey that people fall for all the time. We live in a feminized country that will jump on ANYTHING that even remotely offends women and their mangina cohorts. f*ck that.
Thoughts become our words and words become our actions. Obviously, a person has to make a lot of wrong turns before they go out and rape someone, but there's no doubt they spend a long time dehumanizing women in their words and on the internet first. Let's show some goddamn sensitivity and not encourage them.
f*ck that. If someone dehumanizes women, whoopteedoo. Men get dehumanized all the time, and no one gives a f*ck. How about a little equality, eh? Ooh, what a concept.
Maybe instead of falling for feminist theory and believing in the "evil patriarchy" and other such illusory boogeymen, people should be looking to the real problem, which is the class war between the rich and the poor... you know, the ones who fuel the fabricated gender war to keep the people divided so they are easier to control.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 18, 2013, 09:52:04 AM
And yeah... this subject steams me. Hardcore. A bunch of privileged middle-class white chicks running around spewing nonsense, and their equally privileged middle-class white dudes hoping to get a piece of ass pretending to be "sensitive to the needs of women". Hypocrites, cowards, liars, and professional victims are they. How about they go preach their nonsense in countries where it would actually be useful? Oh wait, because they can't... they can only do it here, where everything is already in their favor... in countries where such a cause is actually needed, they wouldn't last a f*cking day because they'd be gunned down for running their yaps to the wrong steroid-amped nutcase.
In short... quit yer bitchin'. Women in the USA have it better than in most other countries of the world. Men have it worse in the USA than in most countries of the world. Wanna save the world? Start with yourself, and leave the rest of us the f*ck alone. And stop dividing people... we are all HUMANS. I think it's clear who *really* needs to grow the f*ck up...
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: turboswimbz on August 18, 2013, 09:59:24 AM
I despise all violence and domestic abuse in general. No matter what your thoughts are, I do think not that a video game forum may not be the best place to fight over this. (at the very least FS would be a section) I prefer my gaming to be a relaxing activity.
TO get back on topic: In a beat em' up. Who cares? It's fake. Make it violent and fun.
Also give me crazy awesome boss battles
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: spenoza on August 18, 2013, 11:21:12 AM
I really like beat 'em ups, despite the relative lack of depth to most of them, but I think lots of blood and gore doesn't do them any favors, necessarily.
In truth, I prefer beat 'em ups when there's a little depth to the gameplay, though not too much. Double Dragon Advance, for example, was just a little too complex for me to use all the moves well. Streets of Rage 3 had a very good gameplay balance between multiple moves and abilities and ease of play. River City Ransom (all platforms) was also pretty awesome at making sure there's a lot you can do with only two action buttons. The NES version of Double Dragon 3 (but not the arcade, goodness no) and the PCE version of Double Dragon 2 were fantastic as well.
One aspect of the original NES Double Dragon I'd like to see revisited more often is the idea of experience and gaining more and better moves. I like the idea that you start out a simple brawler with just some punches and kicks but as you beat up more mooks you get access to advanced techniques.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: esteban on August 18, 2013, 11:34:13 PM
And yeah... this subject steams me. Hardcore. A bunch of privileged middle-class white chicks running around spewing nonsense, and their equally privileged middle-class white dudes hoping to get a piece of ass pretending to be "sensitive to the needs of women". Hypocrites, cowards, liars, and professional victims are they. How about they go preach their nonsense in countries where it would actually be useful? Oh wait, because they can't... they can only do it here, where everything is already in their favor... in countries where such a cause is actually needed, they wouldn't last a f*cking day because they'd be gunned down for running their yaps to the wrong steroid-amped nutcase.
In short... quit yer bitchin'. Women in the USA have it better than in most other countries of the world. Men have it worse in the USA than in most countries of the world. Wanna save the world? Start with yourself, and leave the rest of us the f*ck alone. And stop dividing people... we are all HUMANS. I think it's clear who *really* needs to grow the f*ck up...
Rover, I love you, but I hope you are ranting with your "raging drama queen setting" turned all the way up to "11"—sexism, racism, classism, nativism, etc. are thriving in America. By any standard measure of inequality, American society has shamefully not reached a point where women can be complacent. Women still have brutal battles before them—one of which is the very mindset you shared in your post:
(1) To deny/minimize/rationalize the sexism that exists in the world today, even if we limit ourselves to the USA, boggles my mind. The evidence is overwhelming.
(2) "Men have it worse in the US?" — WTF?! Tell me I am misinterpreting your words, but it seems like you see gender politics as a zero-sum game. Call me crazy, but everyone wins when we eliminate oppression. Only pathetic racists are threatened by a reduction of racism; only insecure men are threatened by a reduction of sexism.
(3) I find it particularly hilarious/insulting that you negate the struggle of all women (regardless of class, race/ethnicity, sexuality, etc.) because you paint women's struggle/feminism as something that only privileged women engage in. This is insidious—to negate the damage wrought by sexism simply because some women are more privileged than others. By this "logic" we can pretend that racism, homophobia, classism, nativism,etc. aren't "really" problems in America.
(4) I am happy to discuss any inequality with you. Please note: inequalities do not exist in a vacuum, they compound one another. It's tough enough to be a woman in a sexist culture, but compound that with racism/homophobia/classism/ageism/etc. and you get a much better idea of the complex nature of the beast.
BOTTOM LINE: We clearly have very different views.
IN PRACTICE: The video game industry, and the products it produces, reflect the sexist society we live in. Period. I don't deny this. This doesn't mean we can't have tits and asses and penises in our video games—it simply means we are honest about how sexism pervades our lives, our culture, our entertainment.
DISCLAIMER: I know better, but, damn, I couldn't resist. (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
FIGHTING STREET (aka, "drama queen turned up to 11"): The tits and asses, Rover. I'm not trying to take them away from you. I just want you to man-up about the actual state of things, instead of being a pussy who tries to deny that sexism exists (and that it is a legitimate societal problem, and that it injures/hurts/damages like any other form of oppression). Don't wuss out on me, Rover. I know you like your entertainment dipped in a soft-porn candy shell. I'm not trying to take that away from you—just be a man and acknowledge the state of our society, our culture, our entertainment.
I really like beat 'em ups, despite the relative lack of depth to most of them, but I think lots of blood and gore doesn't do them any favors, necessarily.
In truth, I prefer beat 'em ups when there's a little depth to the gameplay, though not too much. Double Dragon Advance, for example, was just a little too complex for me to use all the moves well. Streets of Rage 3 had a very good gameplay balance between multiple moves and abilities and ease of play. River City Ransom (all platforms) was also pretty awesome at making sure there's a lot you can do with only two action buttons. The NES version of Double Dragon 3 (but not the arcade, goodness no) and the PCE version of Double Dragon 2 were fantastic as well.
One aspect of the original NES Double Dragon I'd like to see revisited more often is the idea of experience and gaining more and better moves. I like the idea that you start out a simple brawler with just some punches and kicks but as you beat up more mooks you get access to advanced techniques.
Good stuff! (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png) sweet spot = a bit-of-depth woven into the brainless fun.
To build on what you said: it's not enough to simply offer a wide range/variety of offensive/defensive moves (to counter tedium, and provide a bit more depth), it is equally important to create situations/problems/puzzles in the game where a player appreciates and purposefully uses the arsenal of techniques at his/her disposal. BALANCE is key: you don't want the game to become overly technical (and sterile)...there should be some "brainless" fun...however, long stretches of brainless button-mashing gets old quick.
I agree 100% with spenoza about the implementation of an "experience" system where you acquire advanced moves...it can coincide with challenge/depth/complexity as they ramp up in a game. It remains one of the most endearing elements of the NES Double Dragon formula (to me, anyway—some folks naysay this experience system, but I love it).
Now, this doesn't mean a new game would have to implement a carbon-copy of the experience system from NES Double Dragon: to make replays fresh(er) and less monotonous, upon "leveling up", the system could (1) allow players to choose a technique from 2+ choices (stages/challenges would have to be designed with this in mind), (2) player is randomly assigned a new move, (3) player is occasionally "handicapped" and loses ability to spam certain moves Ha! This might be more amusing if there was a rationale for the loss of a move...for example, a sequence where only legs can be used (no arms/head butts/tossing) because your avatar is carrying a basket of flan (to be delivered to sick children in a hospital) and your hands are literally inaccessible...or a sequence where you can't pull hair and toss opponent because, upon attempting said move, your opponent's toupee/wig/weave is all that can be tossed...or...
RELATED: I like the experience system, and it may or may not be combined with an anti-spamming "special move" system. PERSONALLY, I WOULD LOVE FOR SOMEONE TO DEVISE AN ANTI-SPAMMING SYSTEM THAT ISN'T ANNOYING. For example, I have never been a big fan of "power up a gauge to activate special move" (I hate that!). A counter is slightly (maybe?) better (especially if opportunities to earn extra moves are paced properly), but counters start feeling even more contrived, arbitrary than powering-up a gauge. Counters for special moves removes the organic (desirable) feeling of a beat-em-up and make it seem more technical (like the limited number of smart bombs a craft can carry in a shoot-em-up).
THAT'S WHY LIMITED-USE/TIME-LIMITED WEAPONS in beat-em-ups exist. Awesomely, they allow limited spamming of special moves.
It's funny, I never realized how all of these elements are crucial to the feeling of satisfaction in a beat-em-up...
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 19, 2013, 02:32:13 AM
Keep the binary arguments off the thread please, but continue on the elements of a beat 'em up.
Spenoza and Esteban. Very good points. Than you!
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 19, 2013, 05:01:19 AM
I LOVE DICK.
I mean, beat em off...errr
ups.
yeah. beat em ups.
Make a homo erotic beat em up with the Cho Aniki dudes. Call it Streets of Gays
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 19, 2013, 05:04:02 AM
anyone who lives in the Cleveland area would laugh.
Almost spit up my burrito!
Has anyone tried Dragon's Crown on PS3? It's a great new beat-em-up directed by one of the key designers of the Capcom D&D games! Gratuitous amounts of boobs, butts, baddies, and beat-em-up bad-assery!
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Arkhan on August 23, 2013, 05:28:04 PM
I thought it sucked.
We bought the Kick Ass game off PSN for like 8$ afterwards. It was more fun.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: spenoza on August 23, 2013, 06:03:21 PM
Since we're off the rails again, I am left to conclude that we need a PCE brawler themed after Cho Aniki, set in Lakewood or Westlake, OH, with lots of homoerotic moves and some level of sexual insecurity?
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 23, 2013, 11:14:01 PM
In short... quit yer bitchin'. Women in the USA have it better than in most other countries of the world. Men have it worse in the USA than in most countries of the world.
Well...that's the dumbest f*cking thing I've read in years.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 24, 2013, 01:32:09 PM
Well...that's the dumbest f*cking thing I've read in years.
I know, sometimes reality is dumb. What can we say. And speaking of dumb, I thought we were all off of this dumb distraction?
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 25, 2013, 05:07:10 AM
Sorry, I just had no idea my life here in America as a male was so incredibly hardship filled.
Since we're speaking in broad generalizations (or generalizations about broads) it would fun to have a conversion with a computer programmer that wasn't socially retarded, autistic, or completely nuts. Sadly, I've never encountered one.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: nodtveidt on August 25, 2013, 06:52:25 AM
Since we're speaking in broad generalizations (or generalizations about broads) it would fun to have a conversion with a computer programmer that wasn't socially retarded, autistic, or completely nuts. Sadly, I've never encountered one.
And you never will. It takes a certain kind of crazy to do this job. Normal humans can't do it. You don't operate on our level. Get over it and move on.
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: SignOfZeta on August 26, 2013, 08:33:13 AM
...oh how will I ever get over it?
Title: Re: Elements of a PCE Beat 'em up
Post by: Nando on August 26, 2013, 08:37:31 AM