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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Black Tiger on August 13, 2013, 02:44:29 AM
Title: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Black Tiger on August 13, 2013, 02:44:29 AM
What's a TurboGrafx? *NSF56K* (http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/17739/whats-a-turbografx-nsf56k/p1)
There have always been TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine guides that get some facts wrong, but it's usually when someone with only a tiny bit of knowledge on the subject got some bad info. I don't know how someone can compile such a volume of info while avoiding so much common knowledge that even wikipedia gets right. It reminds me of websites from the 90's.
Here are some highlights-
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What is it?
The Turbo Grafx is the US version of the japanese PC Engine. The PC Engine was the first real challenger to the NES (or famicom in japan) to emerge. It was not a true 16 bit system like the later-released Genesis or SNES, but instead featured dual 8 bit processors and a 16 bit GPU. This meant that, while it wasn't as fast as the Genesis or the SNES, it could produce pictures either on par with them (SNES) or greatly above them (genesis).
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So what about the CD attachment?
The CD attachment is the only addon in history to ever succeed. This is because, unlike the Sega CD, the jaguar CD, and so forth, NEC was staunch in their support for the add-on. In actuallity, the add-on was really treated more like a seperate system, sort of like the difference between the NES and SNES.The idea was to release the turbo CD in 2 parts - first as a stand alone-system (which would later become the turbo DUO) for people who wanted to get in on the new games, and then as a discounted add-on which would allow gamers with existing turbo grafx to experience the new system at a discounted price. In addition, to force acceptance of the CD attachment, hu-card releases would quickly dry up, and all developers would switch to the PC Engine CD. In japan, this tactic worked flawlessly. Gamers, happy with their PC Engines, flocked to the PC Engine CD or PC Engine Duo. In america, the CD attachment was slow to be released (1991 vs 1989) and as such, NEC saw their market slip away.
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So what was so special about the CD attachment?
Quite a bit, actually. While basic hardware was the same, there were several key components that made having a CD attachment worth getting. For one, you could now save your game. Hucards were produced to be as tiny as possible, being the size and width of approximately a credit card. As such, it was impossible to add in a battery for saving games. A seperate add-on to the back of the PC Engine, called the Memory Bank, could allow you to save your games, but it was overpriced and since it wasn't standard, it was never really used. Since the CD attachment had memory built in, all games featured saves.
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The CD attachment also allowed for some really large games, which developers took advantage of (unlike with the Sega CD). Rather than bogging down games with FMV (which were huge, mind you), developers opted to use real time anime cutscenes when dealing with video on the PC Engine. The end result is pretty gorgeous, and can't really be explained, only seen. This results in infinitely clearer cutscenes that are more awe inspiring, and ultimately, a lot less filling.
The CD attachment also had a ton of ram, which could be upgraded. It came packed with 16k of ram, which brought the total ram of the system up to 32k. However, NEC soon released the Duo Card 2, which brought the total memory up to 64k. A small hu-chip that had nothing but ram, that was inserted into the card slot of the PC Engine while playing a CD game. The Duo Card 2 was standard in the US, and quickly became the standard in japan. This was, however, followed up by the Duo card 3, also called the arcade card, which brought the total ram up to a whopping 128k. This meant faster load times, longer levels, bigger cutscenes, and generally more of everything. The ram is the single reason the PC Engine CD could produce a flawless port of fatal fury special.
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Finally, the CD attachment allowed for more hardware tricks, like even better scaling and rotation.
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The PC Engine was weird in that it only had one controller port, so all multiplayer games needed a multi-tap. This was a blessing in disguise, however, as the multitap allowed for 5 players at once. Thus, if a game is multi-player on the PC Engine, it'll allow normally up to 5 people at once.
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There were also arcade sticks, and a small memory card released for the duo called the Tenoke Memory Bank, the world's first memory card.
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ANCIENT BOOK OF YS I & II
Precursor to Zelda by about 3 years (1982-ish), it wasn't just ported to the Turbo Duo, it was completely revamped. The original Ys was a very short game (3 dungeons) weak on story, with pretty fun gameplay. Imagine Zelda, but instead of swinging your sword, you simply ran into enemies. Battle worked sorta like a Dungeons & Dragon's RPG, except everything was behind the scenes. All you had to do was be confident you were stronger, or at least on par, with the enemy, and run into them, and the computer would do the rest.
The Turbo Duo version took this game, and it's sequel (Book II) and released them as 1 game with expanded graphics. To add to it, they fleshed out the story with TONS gorgeous anime cutscenes and got the voice of f*cking OPTIMUS PRIME to do some VA.
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GATE OF THUNDER
Sega and Tecnosoft created a new genre of horizantal shmup with thunderforce - while previous shmups had been either methodical shooters (darius) or memory based shmups (rtype), thunderforce was a straight up action shmup. It was fast, but relied not on paterns, but reflexes, to play. It was as if Contra was made into a shmup.
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STREET FIGHTER II'
Faster than the SNES version. Prettier than the Genesis version. Released before either, Street Fighter II', unknown to many, was actually Turbo Duo exclusive for a while. While the SNES had the original Street Fighter II, NEC had exclusive rights to Street Fighter II' (called championship edition or Hyper Fighting edition in the states) for a while. And it was marvelous. Shows that the PC Engine could keep in step with both systems very easily. Amazingly... this is NOT the best fighting game on the system...
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FATAL FURY SPECIAL
Think back to 1993. Fighting games were all the rage. The Genesis and SNES battled for superiority through fighting games. In the eyes of many, whichever had the closest-to-the-original port of a fighting game was best. Mortal Kombat II. Street Fighter II. Fatal Fury. Now imagine you walk into an arcade and you see Fatal Fury Special, the 128 meg monster on the neo geo MVS. Beautiful, absolutely destroys everything the SNES at it's max power can do.
Now imagine an arcade perfect port. Fatal Fury Special is, amazingly, unbelieveably, an arcade perfect port of a 128 meg game running off a 24-bit arcade system to what is essencially an 8 bit console. No, I'm not speaking in hyperbole. Through the magic of the Arcade Card Pro (which bumped the ram in the PC Engine to insane levels), and the near limitless space of the Duo, NEC and SNK managed to get a 100% arcade perfect port. No lie. It's actually MORE perfect than the Neo Geo CD version due to faster loading times and authentic music. Amazing.
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SNATCHER
The ultimate port of Snatcher. Snatcher was a game for the PC-88 and MSX from way, way back in the day, circa 1983-1984. It was, for all intent and purposes, a CYOA ala Zork. However, when NEC and Konami decided to port it to the PC Engine CD, they decided to go all out, just like Falcom had did with Ys. and thus, Snatcher became what it is known as today. GORGEOUS Cutscenes, amazing color, and a f*cking fun story. Great game. I consider this better than the Sega CD port (the sega cd version was a port of this game with a 3rd act expanded on) because the PC Engine actually can display more colors than the Genesis, resulting in better visuals. This one is also fully unedited - several scenes are missing in the Sega CD version, and others are censored. For example, there is a part in the game where a dog is infested by a snatcher. You kill it, and you see the snatcher crawl out of the dog's intestines and run away, leavin the dog on the floor, twitching, as it's intestines bleed out of it's stomach. Needless to say, this scene was massively toned down in the Sega Genesis version.
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DRACULA X: RONDO NO BLOOD
you've heard of it. It might be the only Turbo Duo game you've heard of. You might not even know about the Turbo Duo, but you have still heard of this game. And for good reason. Some will swear by SotN, or AoS, or Dawn of Sorrow. but pound for pound, enjoyment for enjoyment, this is the ULTIMATE CASTLEVANIA GAME. Period. It was designed to be so. The ultimate, very best castlevania game. Ever. And why not? just like Sonic CD was designed to be the ultimate sonic game because it was on a CD format, so was Dracula X. This wasnt' another castlevania... this was Castlevania CD. The next generation of Castlevania. And it shows. Jaw dropping anime cutscenes (how the f*ck did they do that, without using FMV, on a f*cking 8 bit system?!), HUGE levels with many different paths, 2 completely different games (depending on which route you took, you would wind up with 2 completely different games... only the first and last levels are the same). 2 playable characters, each with different play styles (maria and richter). Phenominal atmosphere (all in-game voice is spoken in german, not japanese, to complete the effect). Every single castlevania main song remixed, covered in hard-rock style, resulting in the BEST castlevania soundtrack ever. And difficulty. Oh man, the normal route in the game is pretty standard... but the 2nd game will make you pull your hair out in frustration. I could type a billion words and I couldn't express how amazing this game is. Fan-f*cking-tastic. GET IT.
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NEUTOPIA I & II
There have been a lot of Zelda clones over the years, but none have really ever come close to being as good as Zelda, let alone being BETTER. Except, of course, for Neutopia. Neutopia is unashamidly a Zelda clone. The first was extremely straight forward, copy Zelda almost screen for screen. but it's sequel was a whole different story... released BEFORE Zelda III, it actually plays almost exactly like it, BEFORE Zelda III was released! No PCE collection is complete with Neutopia.
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STAR PARODIER
Featuring the 3 biggest icons in the PC Engine's arsenal, this is a shmup that stars the ship from the Star Soldier Series, the PC Engine itself, and, get this... MOTHERf*ckING BOMBERMAN. No shit, Bomberman in a shmup. The game is brilliant.
The Turbo Grafx 16's lovable mascot. Playing less like mario and sonic, and more like the mickey mouse games, bonk is a fantastic romp. Light hearted, with absolutely fun levels, and great music. Had the PC Engine been more successful, bonk would still be around.
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LORD OF THUNDER
The Sequel to Gate of thunder took a serious change in pace. Rather than being a fast-as-hell SHMUP in space, Lord of Thunder is a sci-fi fantasy SHUMP taking place in a mystical world that feel a lot like what Rocket Knight Adventure would be if it was a shmup. A little slower, far more beautiful, and fun as hell, with 3 playable characters, large levels, and of course more of the absolutely kick-ass music that made GoT so big, this is a great sequel.
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WONDERBOY SERIES: ADVENTURE ISLAND - BIKKURIMAN - MONSTER'S LAIR - DRAGON'S CURSE - THE DYNASTIC HERO
Amazingly enough, the PC Engine is the only system to have the COMPLETE wonderboy series... every game that had wonderboy was ported to the PC Engine, except with massive name changes (Wonderboy in monsterworld became The Dynastic Hero, for example). But they all play just the same. For those who don't know, wonderboy is basically sega's answer to both metroid and zelda. imagine Zelda II done right, with Metroid's exploration aspect inserted. f*cking great games, especially The Dynastic Hero.
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There are of course, a shitload more of great PC Engine games, and hopefully you'll use this as a guide as you make your way through the fantastic world of NEC.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: geise on August 13, 2013, 02:54:58 AM
Wow.......... :shock:
#-o
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Bardoly on August 13, 2013, 03:14:57 AM
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No PCE collection is complete with Neutopia.
:-k :-k :-k
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Necromancer on August 13, 2013, 03:27:04 AM
So much fail. Did wikipedia, google, and the internet not exist yet way back in 2007? :lol:
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Arkhan on August 13, 2013, 06:53:01 AM
It's posted by the sonic retard.
What did you expect.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on August 13, 2013, 07:48:52 AM
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: esteban on August 13, 2013, 09:31:53 AM
Some favorite bits-O-knowledge:
(1) three playable characters in Lords of Thunder (2) TG-CD's scaling and rotation (3) ...
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: kazekirifx on August 14, 2013, 04:41:34 PM
Ys is from 1982?! Hahahaha! (correct year is 1987)
Also, the original Snatcher is apparently from 1983-1984 instead of 1988.
Dude must see some graphics that look old to his young eyes and immediately assume the game is old as f*ck.
Either that or all PC88 games must have been released in the early days of the platform. (First models of PC88 came out in 1981.)
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Sparky on August 15, 2013, 12:15:41 AM
What a douchebag "fail bud"
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Tatsujin on August 15, 2013, 01:54:02 AM
hauly shiet :lol:
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Tatsujin on August 15, 2013, 02:00:50 AM
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Motherf*ck, Johnny Turbo!
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I know a guy who got a tattoo of Johnny Turbo on his arm! He regrets it quite a bit nowadays.
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Holy shit.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 15, 2013, 03:05:08 AM
This is why I so rarely watch youtube videos about retro games (yes there are exceptions) or listen to gaming podcasts. I often come across this level of fact checking and accuracy.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: KiddoCabbusses on August 15, 2013, 03:17:19 AM
This is why I so rarely watch youtube videos about retro games (yes there are exceptions) or listen to gaming podcasts. I often come across this level of fact checking and accuracy.
I hope my own YouTube channel is a good counterbalance for all the poorly-fact-checked ones. XP The thing is that merely avoiding these groups, the poor fact-checking only grows, and eventually false things are accepted as fact by the mainstream.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: esteban on August 15, 2013, 04:45:17 AM
This is why I so rarely watch youtube videos about retro games (yes there are exceptions) or listen to gaming podcasts. I often come across this level of fact checking and accuracy.
This is so true. It's sad, but it applies to magazines (remember them?) as well...I actually liked that UK RetroGamer mag, especially because it frequently discussed topics that I am barely knowledgeable in (as in, direct, first-hand experience...for example, the entire UK micro computer scene of the 80's), but in other areas (NES/Famicom, 16-bit generation), the articles seemed more prone to errors/biases.
The only positive thing I can say about poorly-informed content: it's entertaining and helps us improve our own explanations of events.
When I am totally ignorant on a topic, (almost) any shmuck will make me happy :)
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 15, 2013, 04:58:19 AM
This is so true. It's sad, but it applies to magazines (remember them?) as well...I actually liked that UK RetroGamer mag, especially because it frequently discussed topics that I am barely knowledgeable in (as in, direct, first-hand experience...for example, the entire UK micro computer scene of the 80's), but in other areas (NES/Famicom, 16-bit generation), the articles seemed more prone to errors/biases.
I used to work for a game magazine back in the day. When I would see other people write things like "Coming soon for Game Boy Advanced", I would cringe. But that was typographical error more so than not knowing what they're talking about.
Everyone gets facts wrong, but when you have people who know very little about the content they're covering doing YouTube shows and Podcasts about it, it's a big issue. It's one thing when it's an occasional error, it's another thing when there's multiple issues in every episode.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: galam on August 15, 2013, 05:18:17 AM
When the TG-16 was launched in 1982, under the codename Panther, it forced the NES to do a "quick launch" about a month early in Yemen. After testing this market, nintendo knew it had a gem on thier hands. With nintendos deep pockets and NEC's marketing brilliance, they teamed up with philips to develop the CD unit. This took sega by surprise while they were scrambling to resurrect the failing genesis. By 1987, the third party license disagreement lead to nintendo splitting off and taking all the good licenses with them in draconian fashion. NEC counter punched by selling the CD technology to the video game juggernaut that was Atari, which eventually became the jaguar CD. Atari had 87% market share from 1990-1995 and nintendo/sega couldn't keep up. When NEC finally liquidated everything to Pepsi, thats when sony came along and said "we gotta get in this". Sony developed a new 3GB storage capacity cartridge which was going to usher in the next generation of video games. Too bad Danny Ocean stole the blueprints and sony was stuck with mediocre CD games in double CD cases. If it wasnt for that extra packaging (cost), sony would still be "in the game".
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: esteban on August 15, 2013, 08:16:50 AM
When the TG-16 was launched in 1982, under the codename Panther, it forced the NES to do a "quick launch" about a month early in Yemen. After testing this market, nintendo knew it had a gem on thier hands. With nintendos deep pockets and NEC's marketing brilliance, they teamed up with philips to develop the CD unit. This took sega by surprise while they were scrambling to resurrect the failing genesis. By 1987, the third party license disagreement lead to nintendo splitting off and taking all the good licenses with them in draconian fashion. NEC counter punched by selling the CD technology to the video game juggernaut that was Atari, which eventually became the jaguar CD. Atari had 87% market share from 1990-1995 and nintendo/sega couldn't keep up. When NEC finally liquidated everything to Pepsi, thats when sony came along and said "we gotta get in this". Sony developed a new 3GB storage capacity cartridge which was going to usher in the next generation of video games. Too bad Danny Ocean stole the blueprints and sony was stuck with mediocre CD games in double CD cases. If it wasnt for that extra packaging (cost), sony would still be "in the game".
This is so true. It's sad, but it applies to magazines (remember them?) as well...I actually liked that UK RetroGamer mag, especially because it frequently discussed topics that I am barely knowledgeable in (as in, direct, first-hand experience...for example, the entire UK micro computer scene of the 80's), but in other areas (NES/Famicom, 16-bit generation), the articles seemed more prone to errors/biases.
I used to work for a game magazine back in the day. When I would see other people write things like "Coming soon for Game Boy Advanced", I would cringe. But that was typographical error more so than not knowing what they're talking about.
Everyone gets facts wrong, but when you have people who know very little about the content they're covering doing YouTube shows and Podcasts about it, it's a big issue. It's one thing when it's an occasional error, it's another thing when there's multiple issues in every episode.
You are absolutely correct: making an honest mistake, or misremembering something, or getting a fact wrong (I myself can't remember if JJ & Jeff was available 1989 or 1990 in US) is one thing; a pattern of sloppy mistakes is another....
Which reminds me, didn't you help me out when I needed a "pseudo-definitive" list of North American release dates? I can't believe something so seemingly simple is so hard to pin down. The year is usually narrowed down... but the month? Forget about it.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 15, 2013, 10:37:27 AM
Which reminds me, didn't you help me out when I needed a "pseudo-definitive" list of North American release dates? I can't believe something so seemingly simple is so hard to pin down. The year is usually narrowed down... but the month? Forget about it.
Yep, and even the year is difficult. It appears for example Monster Lair and Fighting Street were to be the first two CD games released in 1989, except for the fact that they pushed the CD system back to Summer 1990. So those games were manufactured with dates on them but not released til the following year.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: ApolloBoy on August 16, 2013, 07:30:31 AM
Interesting, I had no idea that happened. I always assumed that the TG-CD was released in '89 shortly after the TG-16 itself.
I suspect it was difficult enough to get stores to carry just the base unit in 1989, let alone a 400.00 add-on. All indications are that the CD-ROM add-on launched in the US in Summer of 1990.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: TheClash603 on August 16, 2013, 05:11:11 PM
Interesting, I had no idea that happened. I always assumed that the TG-CD was released in '89 shortly after the TG-16 itself.
I suspect it was difficult enough to get stores to carry just the base unit in 1989, let alone a 400.00 add-on. All indications are that the CD-ROM add-on launched in the US in Summer of 1990.
Arent the manufacturing dats all 1989? So they took a year until they actually pushed them out?
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 16, 2013, 08:28:10 PM
Arent the manufacturing dats all 1989? So they took a year until they actually pushed them out?
ALL no, some yes. I suspect that they started manufacturing the units in 1989 intending to release them then, but waited until the appropriate retail channels were available before sending them out. And it wasn't a full year, I think the base TurboGrafx 16 came out in August of 1989, and it was maybe June 1990 when the CD unit hit the market.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: A Black Falcon on August 16, 2013, 08:57:43 PM
The Turbografx is the only console I know of where you can't even trust the year the game claims to have been released in, in case after case... it definitely makes figuring out accurate release dates a real pain.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: ApolloBoy on August 17, 2013, 08:18:58 AM
The Turbografx is the only console I know of where you can't even trust the year the game claims to have been released in, in case after case... it definitely makes figuring out accurate release dates a real pain.
That's the case for *a lot* of other systems, not just the TG-16.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: A Black Falcon on August 17, 2013, 09:05:58 AM
The Turbografx is the only console I know of where you can't even trust the year the game claims to have been released in, in case after case... it definitely makes figuring out accurate release dates a real pain.
That's the case for *a lot* of other systems, not just the TG-16.
Perhaps so, but it seems worse on the TG16, at least compared to other systems from the '90s... but yes, in general release dates in the West are hard to find accurately. It's not at all like Japan where you can find the exact day just about any possible game released, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 17, 2013, 09:31:23 AM
Perhaps so, but it seems worse on the TG16, at least compared to other systems from the '90s... but yes, in general release dates in the West are hard to find accurately. It's not at all like Japan where you can find the exact day just about any possible game released, unfortunately.
Stuff didn't have launches or street dates back then. One of the first games I remember having an actual street date was Sonic 2.
I remember in 1992 calling Babbages daily from March into April until Zelda: A link to the past was released. They knew it was coming, they didn't know when and there was no street date.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: turboswimbz on August 18, 2013, 04:56:20 AM
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Black Tiger on August 18, 2013, 05:42:45 AM
Perhaps so, but it seems worse on the TG16, at least compared to other systems from the '90s... but yes, in general release dates in the West are hard to find accurately. It's not at all like Japan where you can find the exact day just about any possible game released, unfortunately.
Stuff didn't have launches or street dates back then. One of the first games I remember having an actual street date was Sonic 2.
I remember in 1992 calling Babbages daily from March into April until Zelda: A link to the past was released. They knew it was coming, they didn't know when and there was no street date.
Games also didn't launch every where at the same time. It would often take a long time (by today's standards) for some areas to receive copies. Sometimes a game or console would only be available in very few places at first. So even if you find a technical first release date or a nationwide one, they don't have the same meaning as today's release dates.
Real "street dates" for games, movies, music, etc, in an organized form, where stores receive stock early and sit on it until they're allowed to sell it, is a fairly modern practice and was hard to pull off even in the late 90's. The internet makes it easier now, but even after street dates became somewhat normal, they were very hard to enforce for a long time.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 18, 2013, 09:05:27 AM
Games also didn't launch every where at the same time. It would often take a long time (by today's standards) for some areas to receive copies. Sometimes a game or console would only be available in very few places at first. So even if you find a technical first release date or a nationwide one, they don't have the same meaning as today's release dates.
Real "street dates" for games, movies, music, etc, in an organized form, where stores receive stock early and sit on it until they're allowed to sell it, is a fairly modern practice and was hard to pull off even in the late 90's. The internet makes it easier now, but even after street dates became somewhat normal, they were very hard to enforce for a long time.
Yep, even living in an urban area when Electronics Boutique or Babbages put games for sale, and when say Toys R us, or other general retailers (K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Target) varied. I actually vividly remember Sonic 2sday (the street date for Sonic 2 being a pun on the word Tuesday). However, the Babbages that I got my copy at sold it to me two or three days before. So even when there were street dates back then, they weren't widely enforced.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: A Black Falcon on August 18, 2013, 12:58:12 PM
You're right that dates were unspecific, but Zelda LttP does have a reported US release day, at least... while with the TG16, we aren't even sure what year the Turbo CD released in! I know the current guess is June 1990, but what proof is there for that?
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 18, 2013, 01:01:43 PM
You're right that dates were unspecific, but Zelda LttP does have a reported US release day, at least... while with the TG16, we aren't even sure what year the Turbo CD released in! I know the current guess is June 1990, but what proof is there for that?
There was some magazine coverage at the time when it came out, I think there was a promotional video of like Computer Chronicles where they showed it off and mentioned it came out in June of 1990. But is June 100% certain? no.
Added in edit: Also, if Link to the past has a reported US release date there's a good chance it's wrong. Without "street dates" like we have today even qualifying what counts as a release date might be arbitrary. Is a game released when it first reaches the publishers warehouse, when it hits distribution centers for retailers, when it's actually in a retail store on the shelf. These things can actually vary quite a bit.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: A Black Falcon on August 18, 2013, 04:21:53 PM
You're right that dates were unspecific, but Zelda LttP does have a reported US release day, at least... while with the TG16, we aren't even sure what year the Turbo CD released in! I know the current guess is June 1990, but what proof is there for that?
There was some magazine coverage at the time when it came out, I think there was a promotional video of like Computer Chronicles where they showed it off and mentioned it came out in June of 1990. But is June 100% certain? no.
If magazines first mention the Turbo CD in June, that would be some evidence towards that... but when several games, and the system, have 1989 dates in them, it is weird that it took six months after that before the thing released.
And of course, on the other end, it's weird that Godzilla and The Dynastic Hero have 1993 dates on them, when it seems quite likely that they didn't actually release until early '94 (when who knows in the first 4+ months of the year, right?). And the Japanese versions of both games do say 1994 in them, weirdly enough.
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Added in edit: Also, if Link to the past has a reported US release date there's a good chance it's wrong. Without "street dates" like we have today even qualifying what counts as a release date might be arbitrary. Is a game released when it first reaches the publishers warehouse, when it hits distribution centers for retailers, when it's actually in a retail store on the shelf. These things can actually vary quite a bit.
True, those specific days well might be wrong... but how do they determine that now? I mean, today all games have a set release day. It's the day it appears in stores, yes? So I'd think the release day should be the first day it was available in stores, for older games. We rarely know the specific day, but just getting the month right's good enough I think; there are many games where all we have is the year, if that.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: DragonmasterDan on August 18, 2013, 10:45:39 PM
True, those specific days well might be wrong... but how do they determine that now? I mean, today all games have a set release day. It's the day it appears in stores, yes? So I'd think the release day should be the first day it was available in stores, for older games. We rarely know the specific day, but just getting the month right's good enough I think; there are many games where all we have is the year, if that.
Most games today have "Street Dates" which is the date they're supposed to be put on sale at retail. Usually though not universally they're sent out before that (especially for big blockbuster releases so larger stores that receive all of their inventory through a warehouse rather than direct mail can have them ready to be put up for sale on launch day), and there's always stories of people going to their local Wal-Mart, Target or what have you and getting the latest mega blockbuster release a week or so early because the store employees decided to make an exception for them, or put it up for sale by mistake.
With that said, not ALL games even today have a set release, lots of very small releases just arrive when they arrive.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: seieienbu on August 21, 2013, 09:47:17 PM
Stuff didn't have launches or street dates back then. One of the first games I remember having an actual street date was Sonic 2.
I remember in 1992 calling Babbages daily from March into April until Zelda: A link to the past was released. They knew it was coming, they didn't know when and there was no street date.
When I was in fourth grade a friend of mine and I would ride our bikes to the Wal Mart near where I lived almost every day for over a month waiting on Zelda 3. We finally got it a couple of weeks into May. Perhaps it wasn't the best store to get games from, but on the other hand I bought Mortal Kombat almost a week before Mortal Monday as advertised in a ton of comic books.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: esteban on August 22, 2013, 01:41:00 AM
RELEASE DATE DETECTIVES: Has anyone, ever, found an old invoice (shipping invoice) from a retail store? I know they are inherently boring, but I thought it would be fun to see some. The dates wouldn't be release dates, per se, but they are documented (no-later-than) dates.
ANECDDOTE: I think I got CONTRA as soon as it was available at big retailers. I was STOKED. I actually didn't know much about the NES game (I played the arcade version, though), but I always purchased games released by Konami (later, ULTRA) because they were RELIABLE and I felt I was less likely to get screwed. Brand reputation...trust...
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Black Tiger on August 22, 2013, 04:58:21 AM
I remember Monster Lair and Fighting Street being released before the Turbo-CD. Other people have mentioned this over the years as well. They may very well have come out in 1989.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: A Black Falcon on August 22, 2013, 06:10:45 AM
I remember Monster Lair and Fighting Street being released before the Turbo-CD. Other people have mentioned this over the years as well. They may very well have come out in 1989.
I remember Monster Lair and Fighting Street being released before the Turbo-CD. Other people have mentioned this over the years as well. They may very well have come out in 1989.
Wait... those two games may have been released six months before the CD drive is believed to have been released? Oh NEC...
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Black Tiger on September 08, 2014, 07:48:46 AM
The Turbo Guru has been venturing out across the internet to spread his knowledge and correct idiots everywhere.
What is the best 8-bit RPG? (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=122647993#post122647993)
It's typical of NeoGAF that almost all of the replies are random non-RPG NES games. But TheTurboRetard, operating under one of his many aliases, showed up shouting "Don't let them mislead you! The Turbo Duo is the best 8-bit game system on the market!" [-X
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Faxanadu
like, not even the best in the 8-bit series. Legend of Xanadu and Legend of Xanadu 2 were so much better:
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You sure those Legend Of Xanadu games are 8 bit? They look too good to be 8 bit.
They're on the PC Engine, which is an 8-bit console.
EDIT: "bits" has nothing to do with graphics unless you are talking color depth (in which case the NES isn't 8-bit).
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Is Quest for Glory 8 bit or 16 bit ?
It was only released on 16-bit and 32-bit CPUs.
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PC Engine/Turbografx 16 actually has an 8-bit CPU.
That comes off more as a pedantic technicality than following the intent though (NES/Master System/MAYBE GameBoy/GameGear if you're following full technical capabilities rather than a specific era), it's like asking the best 32-bit FPS and answering with Halo or Half Life 2 because the Xbox CPU is actually 32-bit... nevermind if you factor in PC and 32-bit OSes then well shit.
I'd say arguing it isn't an 8-bit machine comes off more as being ignorant to what defines 8-bit entirely. It's not pedantic, it's correct. You're using some extremely loose arbitrary definition of 8-bit if you exclude the PC Engine. What definition are you using? The time period? The PC Engine released 1 year after the Master System. Is it the graphics? Nothing about the NES or SMS's graphics are 8-bit.
I'm saying it's pedantic because it's focusing on specific technical details (that the TG16 had an 8-bit CPU, though it does have a pair of 16-bit GPUs which for gaming hardware tend to matter far more anyway) rather than the seeming intent of the question (NES/SMS RPGs if not early RPGs in general.) If we were talking about earlier TG16 games there's something to be said because they'd likely be far closer to NES/SMS RPGs than SNES/Genesis ones anyway, and PC RPGs need something harder in lieu of discrete consoles... but The Legend of Xanadu games specifically came out in 1994 and 1995, not only knee deep in the 16-bit era and looking the part but in the years the PS1 and SS came out across the globe. And whatever you want to classify the TG16 as it's undeniably far ahead of the NES/SMS, doubly so with the CD attachment, so again it's like trying to boast Xbox released FPSes in response to "what is the best 32-bit FPS?" when the intent of such a question would typically be about what PS1/Saturn/maybe N64 FPS is best, even if the last one is a 64-bit system while PCs went with 32-bit processors and OSes for a long, long time that we're STILL not fully out of for some reason.
Actually now that I double check things the Dreamcast would probably be a far more fitting modern(-ish) analogy if it lasted as long as the TG16 did, it even came out about as far ahead of the PS2/GC/Xbox as the TG16 did its contemporaries. Though the TG16 had at least a few upgrades (CD and an upgrade to that) which actually caught on so that period in gaming was all kinds of weird anyway.
And yet, one of the most popular answers in this topic was released in 1992, just 2 years prior to the games you have contention with. Further, since you seem to define the 8-bit era as the SMS/NES era, what of, say, the C64 or Atari 8-bit?
The OP defined the perimeters of the discussion, people have abided by them. Your sound like you're upset that people are listing consoles that you personally didn't consider, when they are perfectly valid responses.
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as the PC-Engine definitely competed with the 16-bit machines of the era.
This is the worst kind of western revisionist history. The PC Engine primarily competed against the Famicom, where the twilight years of its life were just when the Super Famicom began taking off in popularity in that region.
Further, these posts dwelling on "but I just don't feel like it's 8-bit!" are mind numbing and extremely US centric. Refer to "8-bit" in Europe and people will undoubtedly think of the 2nd generation of video games, namely the Atari 8-bit line.
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What revisionist history? I suggest you back up your argument with facts before going the aggressive route. While it's true the PC-Engine was conceived as a machine to go against the FC, 4 years after the later mind you, it was quickly confronted to the 4th gen consoles, first the Megadrive, released just 1 year after, then the SFC. The PC-Engine was only 3 years old at this point. NEC tried to make it's own next-gen console with the SuperGrafx but failed miserably. That's where the Super CR-ROM2 comes in, to make the PC-Engine competitive against the new consoles. And are you really trying to argue Super CR-ROM2 games aren't on par with 4th gen games?
The Super CD-Rom2 games add nothing but ram. It's a ram upgrade. This is like saying the RAM expansion for the N64 made it compete against the dreamcast.
Yes, I am arguing exactly that. To point out that the Mega Drive and Super Famicom launched shortly after the PC Engine is to ignore the market share entirely. The Famicom was still the dominant console in japan, racing against the PC engine, until about 1993-1994, when the Super Famicom started taking off and the PC Engine began declining in popularity.
The PC Engine was absolutely a product conceived to go against the Famicom, and it primarily did. A mere Ram expansion doesn't make it suddenly a generation ahead.
Fun Fact for all the members new to the Turbo/PCE: The System Card/CD-ROMs do not upgrade the PC Engine hardware, unlike the N64 RAM PAK which actually upgrades the internal ram that the N64 hardware uses for all of its functions. The extra memory in the CD-ROM is simply a larger area to download content to, the same as the Saturn ram carts. It's basically a larger temporary HuCard/cart for the game to operate out of.
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i get that, but it's still not what i'd wager OP meant when he asked "best 8-bit RPG"
So then what did he mean? Some people have said he meant games which were early, as the OP himself claims early games haven't had time to be subject to refinement. Well, if that's the case, several PC engine games meet that criteria, more so than the popular NES choices like Mother and DQIV.
If he meant "game from a machine with an 8-bit architecture" then that is inclusive of the Atari 8-bit, PC engine, NES, and SMS.
If he intended to say "NES and SMS" games, then he chose his words poorly and should have said exactly that. Regardless, PC Engine games are absolutely 8-bit games, there are no ways around it.
Unfortunately, not only is TheTurboRetard still active in forums he hasn't been laughed out of yet, he has been posting more Turbo/PCE guides anywhere people will let him:
What's a TurboGrafx? *NSF56K* (http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/17739/whats-a-turbografx-nsf56k/p1)
This particular thread inspired this genius comment from another member:
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Let's not forget Johnny Turbo, the most retarded videogame brand mascot ever created.
Imagine if we called characters from mainstream game system magazine ads "videogame brand mascots"?
Can you believe that Nintendo used this as the mascot of the Game Boy?!?!
Unfortunately, Nintendo eventually decided to become culturally sensitive and corrected their white washed history of video game brand mascots with this guy:
(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/gbyawiga.jpg)
Until the feminists started complaining and Nintendo's new mascot became this character:
(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/gbwoman.jpg)
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Necromancer on September 08, 2014, 08:48:11 AM
That guy is just an idiot; when people say 8-bit, they obviously mean the 8-bit generation and not specifically systems with 8-bit cpus.
And that last advert is pretty awesome. Here's a similarly classy advert (http://goo.gl/lijVgZ) featuring sexy ladies (my favorite is the bikini full of carts).
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Mathius on September 08, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Can we please start screening applicants before letting them open their mouths?
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: esteban on September 08, 2014, 01:52:42 PM
Black Tiger, your post just SCREAMS to be expanded and turned into an article called "Misconceptions about the TG-16/PCE" or "Debunking Bullshit that f*cktards Spew Forth" or "David and Lisa"....
(http://junk.tg-16.com/images/pcgs.png)
I loved those Nintendo and Sega ads...I didn't remember any of them.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Ayce on September 09, 2014, 01:53:23 AM
Faster than the SNES version. Prettier than the Genesis version. Released before either, Street Fighter II', unknown to many, was actually Turbo Duo exclusive for a while. While the SNES had the original Street Fighter II, NEC had exclusive rights to Street Fighter II' (called championship edition or Hyper Fighting edition in the states) for a while. And it was marvelous. Shows that the PC Engine could keep in step with both systems very easily. Amazingly... this is NOT the best fighting game on the system...
Street Fighter II came out on the SNES in June of 1992 the Arcade version of CE came out a couple months prior to the SNES release. Then in 1993 the SFII' came out on the PCE. But... if you are talking specifically about the CE version then yes I guess the PCE would have come out before Genesis, but SNES never had CE... they skipped it and jumped to Turbo.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: Black Tiger on September 09, 2014, 04:44:04 AM
Faster than the SNES version. Prettier than the Genesis version. Released before either, Street Fighter II', unknown to many, was actually Turbo Duo exclusive for a while. While the SNES had the original Street Fighter II, NEC had exclusive rights to Street Fighter II' (called championship edition or Hyper Fighting edition in the states) for a while. And it was marvelous. Shows that the PC Engine could keep in step with both systems very easily. Amazingly... this is NOT the best fighting game on the system...
Street Fighter II came out on the SNES in June of 1992 the Arcade version of CE came out a couple months prior to the SNES release. Then in 1993 the SFII' came out on the PCE. But... if you are talking specifically about the CE version then yes I guess the PCE would have come out before Genesis, but SNES never had CE... they skipped it and jumped to Turbo.
The apostrophe at the end represents the Japanese title of CE: "Dash".
Both the Genesis and SNES received ports of CE, which included the Turbo/HF variant as well.
Title: Re: Unfortunate Turbo/PCE Beginners Guide
Post by: wolfman on September 09, 2014, 10:42:54 AM
Guys, be happy and stop complaining about misinformation.
This helps us greatly and btw through this we still get fairly ok prices on games & stuff without too much collectards pushing prices upwards, because it is "just an ok system" competing against all that "cool stuff".
Shouldn´t we "knowing" creatures consider ourselves lucky enough to stand above this?
At least I do. And I sure feel damn great about it. :clap: :mrgreen: :dance: :-" :lol: