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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: Nando on September 09, 2013, 03:35:56 AM
Title: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 09, 2013, 03:35:56 AM
So a JP PS4 commercial and now with a non portable Vita um console?
Full video
New Vita
oh and Sony, you can't fool me with that, hey you can play all your ps4 games on your vita bullshit. You tried that with the PSP. Fool me once....
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: turboswimbz on September 09, 2013, 03:59:07 AM
I guess in theory it isn't terrible, But yeah in practice I'm sure it will be more headache then it's worth.
I am just not excited for this generation of video game computers - My laptop just seems like a better more practical option at this point, I hated the idea of steam for a long time, but I am actually enjoying it more and more. I can emulate, I can play classic stuff, or more modern stuff, and there are few if any supscrption fees to playing. It also plays netflix, hulu and movies. all in all I can't seee why I'd want a home console media box at this point, but maybe as time goes on I'll come around.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Necromancer on September 09, 2013, 04:21:41 AM
What about touch screen controls? I can't see the PS4 touchpad thingy being able to cover both sides very well.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 09, 2013, 04:29:01 AM
What about touch screen controls? I can't see the PS4 touchpad thingy being able to cover both sides very well.
analog nipples!
It's a killer Xmas gift from a price POV.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: KingDrool on September 09, 2013, 04:41:46 AM
I think this is Nintendo's next console. Seriously. A little box that streams your 4DS, or whatever the hell they're gonna call the next one.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Tatsujin on September 09, 2013, 05:03:32 AM
f*ck LOL!
They did it before the 0DS did :lol:
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: td741 on September 09, 2013, 06:34:23 AM
Hmm... If it's cheaper then the vita itself it could be interesting, since I tend to play on TV and remote playing elsewhere in the house might be interseting... I don't really play many portables on the go, my 3DS is mostly used for Street Pass at this point. :P
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Mzo on September 09, 2013, 06:41:30 AM
Hmm... If it's cheaper then the vita itself it could be interesting, since I tend to play on TV and remote playing elsewhere in the house might be interseting... I don't really play many portables on the go, my 3DS is mostly used for Street Pass at this point. :P
The basic set will be around $100, with a deluxe model that brings a DS3 costing a bit more.
Could be an interesting competitor to the Apple TV if they support it enough. I'm assuming this will blow up when they start announcing the fruits of their labors with Gaikai.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 09, 2013, 06:43:43 AM
I think this is Nintendo's next console. Seriously. A little box that streams your 4DS, or whatever the hell they're gonna call the next one.
More likely a fully portable version of the Wii-U tablet with a box for hooking it up to your TV if you'd like to output video to it.
Pretty sensible and likely. Makes sense overall.
I'd buy it.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: MotherGunner on September 09, 2013, 07:50:51 AM
It woul allow me to play 3rd Birthday on a big TV..... :-k
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: TheClash603 on September 09, 2013, 07:51:49 AM
As long as the price is right, I would consider it. Having the ability to access all the content I own in more ways is a value proposition.
However, I do wonder why they can't just charge $50 for some 20 foot HDMI adapter so I can just hook my Vita to the TV. That would also solve the input issue of missing touch screens.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 09, 2013, 08:11:33 AM
However, I do wonder why they can't just charge $50 for some 20 foot HDMI adapter so I can just hook my Vita to the TV. That would also solve the input issue of missing touch screens.
Pricing and holiday sales. They want to cover all their segments.
It's a PSP/PS1/Vita/PSN playing - PS4 streaming machine (still have my doubts about the PS4 streaming) For $100 is a reasonable buy/gift.
Guess they still had a TON of vita parts around.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 09, 2013, 09:39:42 AM
This system kinda ticked me off at first, but then I saw they announce a new slimmer, lighter, yada yada version of the Vita coming in a plethora of colors. Though, it has an LCD screen, vs. the OG Vita's OLED. I'm a little concerned about this, as the OLED did always look pretty sharp to me.
Here's the announcement ala Magicbox: Sony announced a new PS Vita Model PCH-2000, which is a Wi-Fi only model and 20% thinner, 15% lighter than the original and has a more rounded design. PCH-2000 will have a HD LCD display instead of OLED, 6 hours battery life, 1GB built-in memory and a new micro-USB slot for data and charging. The new model will launch on Oct 10 for 19,929 yen in 6 different colors: Black, White, Lime Green, Light Blue & White, Pink & Black, and Khaki & Black.
Back to the Vita TV, I wonder if it'll play Ys Celceta. It does have some touch screen stuff, but I don't think it's mandatory, I'll have to do some research, as that's the main reason I want a Vita!
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: geise on September 09, 2013, 01:17:47 PM
I watched the first video. All I could think of is "If it could only be that easy to set it all up."
I also have no friends that would want or have the time for all this social gaming. I am old.
Regardless the idea is really cool. I just don't see it being that easy or that many companies supporting all of that.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Black Tiger on September 09, 2013, 03:00:19 PM
I had no intention of getting a 3DS, Vita or next gen console, but I'll probably buy a Vita TV just to play PSP games on. Anyone know how playing PSP games legitly on a Vita works? Do I have to rip UMD games to a memory card on my original model PSP and then stick the card in the Vita TV?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 09, 2013, 06:43:40 PM
I don't think there's a "Sony" way to rip UMD's yet, but there's probably a way to do it with a 3rd part device & CFW. I think it just means digital versions bought off PSN. Though, I'm no expert on the Vita, seeing as how I don't have one yet. Ofcoarse, with CFW, that means no PSN support, & more & more games are going digital only sadly :( For my PSP, I actually have the 1000 for CFW, & the 2000 for all the regular stuff.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 10, 2013, 01:54:40 AM
From what I was reading, the new versions of CFW allow one to toggle the jailbreak, so access to psn is still possible.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: turbokon on September 10, 2013, 02:06:03 AM
Sold my PSVita a while back but I may pickup a vita tv. I paid $100 for an Apple TV just to be able to watch Netflix on one of my tv.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: c0ldb33r on September 10, 2013, 12:37:15 PM
I'm stoked for this. I loved plugging my PSP go into a cradle, hooking it to a TV and controlling it with a dalshock 3. To me this is the same thing, only newer :)
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: MotherGunner on September 10, 2013, 01:01:01 PM
I'm stoked for this. I loved plugging my PSP go into a cradle, hooking it to a TV and controlling it with a dalshock 3. To me this is the same thing, only newer :)
Shit I didn't even know you could do this. Can you do it with a regular PSP?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: bartre on September 10, 2013, 03:53:44 PM
no dualshock support sadly :( only the go supported the bluetooth.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: FiftyQuid on September 11, 2013, 07:01:00 AM
$100? Vita TV is a no-brainer of a buy for me. It'll stream play PS1/PS2/PSN/PSP/Vita games, stream Netflix, Music Unlimited, Video Unlimited and hopefully it'll support Gaikai (http://www.gaikai.com/) later on.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 11, 2013, 07:10:10 AM
$100? Vita TV is a no-brainer of a buy for me. It'll stream play PS1/PS2/PSN/PSP/Vita games, stream Netflix, Music Unlimited, Video Unlimited and hopefully it'll support Gaikai (http://www.gaikai.com/) later on.
It's supposed to do ps4 streaming as well. I wish there was ps3 streaming on it as well. I would buy one, no second thoughts.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 11, 2013, 03:28:24 PM
I hope they make some sort of touch controller for it, so that ALL Vita games are supported, that would rock!
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: geise on September 12, 2013, 04:02:10 AM
The new ps4 controller is a front/back touch screen in a sense. That will be what you would use for touchscreen stuff as far as I know.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 12, 2013, 08:35:32 AM
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 12, 2013, 09:13:35 AM
I'm buying this thing for sure. No question.
The only reason I even have a Vita is for imported Bandai games like Super Robot Wars. Being able to play them on the Vita itself or the TV is pretty cool. This is the closest were going to get to a major console with a lot of 2D games.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 12, 2013, 09:16:53 AM
I had no intention of getting a 3DS, Vita or next gen console, but I'll probably buy a Vita TV just to play PSP games on. Anyone know how playing PSP games legitly on a Vita works? Do I have to rip UMD games to a memory card on my original model PSP and then stick the card in the Vita TV?
You're joking, right?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: stockspyder on September 12, 2013, 11:08:57 AM
I think that will only work like that with a lot of cell phone data flying all over the place, and in reality could be much slower. Much slower.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Necromancer on September 12, 2013, 11:12:08 AM
I had no intention of getting a 3DS, Vita or next gen console, but I'll probably buy a Vita TV just to play PSP games on. Anyone know how playing PSP games legitly on a Vita works? Do I have to rip UMD games to a memory card on my original model PSP and then stick the card in the Vita TV?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Black Tiger on September 12, 2013, 11:34:55 AM
Apparently while editing my post on my cell phone, I left out the end of the sentence stating that I wanted to play PSP games on a TV via hdmi and with a pad like a console. I don't like portable-only gaming and hope to eventually have console versions of evety portable. The Vita TV will take care of two portable libraries on its own. :)
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 12, 2013, 01:23:24 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-has-no-plans-to-launch-ps-vita-tv-in-us-europe-6414394 Well, hmmm. There goes that. Maybe they'll change their mind?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 12, 2013, 02:51:29 PM
Apparently while editing my post on my cell phone, I left out the end of the sentence stating that I wanted to play PSP games on a TV via hdmi and with a pad like a console. I don't like portable-only gaming and hope to eventually have console versions of evety portable. The Vita TV will take care of two portable libraries on its own. :)
What surprised us is that you aparently thought Sony would endorse dumping ISOs of PSP games, something they would issue 4-5 patches a year trying to thwart.
You have to buy them again to play them on Vita. Either that or wait for someone to crack the Vita. Same as it was with PSPGo.
BTW, I bought a PSP version of a Metal Slug game on the shop to play on Vita. It actually scales really well and looks a lot better than, for example, DS games look on 3DSXL, and WAY better than the TV out from a PSP.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 12, 2013, 02:53:00 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-has-no-plans-to-launch-ps-vita-tv-in-us-europe-6414394 Well, hmmm. There goes that. Maybe they'll change their mind?
Yeah, they said the same thing about the Vita price drop (which just happened) and the redesigned Vita (which will come to the US when all the OG Vitas run out).
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: TheClash603 on September 12, 2013, 10:05:00 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-has-no-plans-to-launch-ps-vita-tv-in-us-europe-6414394 Well, hmmm. There goes that. Maybe they'll change their mind?
Yeah, they said the same thing about the Vita price drop (which just happened) and the redesigned Vita (which will come to the US when all the OG Vitas run out).
Sony has made some good decisions lately and their finances are improving. Seems they are due to make a bad decision, such as not releasing a product in the US which is selling in Japan and quite popular.
I wonder how difficult it would be to add Android marketplace to this thing? Isn't Android open, so anyone can essentially use it? I am not overly interested in Android games, but that would be a way to make essentially every other Android box obsolete and it couldnt hurt this device.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 13, 2013, 02:40:57 AM
http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-has-no-plans-to-launch-ps-vita-tv-in-us-europe-6414394 Well, hmmm. There goes that. Maybe they'll change their mind?
Yeah, they said the same thing about the Vita price drop (which just happened) and the redesigned Vita (which will come to the US when all the OG Vitas run out).
Sony has made some good decisions lately and their finances are improving. Seems they are due to make a bad decision, such as not releasing a product in the US which is selling in Japan and quite popular.
They'll release it for sure, just on their timing. Knowing Sony, they'll run a few tweaks before sending it states side. Doesn't the PS4 come out in November? I also read that it can "technically" stream PS3 games as well.
Personally, I'll wait for the version with the PS4 controller.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 13, 2013, 06:41:05 AM
http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-has-no-plans-to-launch-ps-vita-tv-in-us-europe-6414394 Well, hmmm. There goes that. Maybe they'll change their mind?
Yeah, they said the same thing about the Vita price drop (which just happened) and the redesigned Vita (which will come to the US when all the OG Vitas run out).
Sony has made some good decisions lately and their finances are improving. Seems they are due to make a bad decision, such as not releasing a product in the US which is selling in Japan and quite popular.
I wonder how difficult it would be to add Android marketplace to this thing? Isn't Android open, so anyone can essentially use it? I am not overly interested in Android games, but that would be a way to make essentially every other Android box obsolete and it couldnt hurt this device.
The main reason their returns look good is because they SOLD THEIR HEADQUARTERS in both Japan and the US. You can't exactly do that every year.
Their fiancees will never improve until the company changes massively, which it probably will do, but only as it collapses. The division they lose money on the least is the games division, and there is basically zero money, negative money, really, in top-tier hardware development and 1st party-ness. No sane person would enter the console business right now. The invasion of the tablets and MS basically tricking everyone into outspending themselves into massive debt, make it more or less suicidal. *I* make more money at my 40 hour a week job than MS does on games because I'm actually in the black and they aren't.
That said, I have no doubt this little white box will come to the US, but it will be black of course because Americans are filthy. Worst case scenario you import one. With today's exchange rates and this thing being really cheap to begin with, it won't cost very much.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Necromancer on September 13, 2013, 07:09:15 AM
MS's Entertainment and Devices division turned a profit of $848 million last year (pretax), and I doubt that was from phones or Surface.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 13, 2013, 02:17:55 PM
Yeah...last year. With a very mature 360 and most of their losses from development and advertising written off in previous years. Looking at the entire history of the XBox brand I'm pretty sure they are still in the hole. They spent over $2B in advertising alone on the original Xbox in the first year.
And they will of course lose billions on the next machine, which is a month or so away, thus restarting the whole clusterf*ck again.
I read a thing recently about how MS spent, I'm not shitting you, $150 MILLION dollars developing the XBone pad. You know, the pad that is %99 identical to the 360 pad they already had. $150,000,000 f*cking dollars. Just a pad. Not a WiiU tablet or anything, the same basic thing they did last time. What the hell? I think that's probably more than Sega spent designing every console they ever released combined.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: munchiaz on September 13, 2013, 03:00:02 PM
It makes sense that Japan would get the Vita TV first. The PS4 doesn't launch in Japan until February. So they need something to generate money. Since it drops in Japan on November 14th, maybe the US will see the vita TV in February.
I do hope it comes here. I def would pick one up
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Punch on September 13, 2013, 06:00:28 PM
I'm not sure if that will sell in the US, I really don't know why one would be interested by the undesirable portable console, now without the portability.
At least I would play some PSP exclusives cheaply with it, I guess.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: bartre on September 14, 2013, 02:48:44 AM
It makes sense that Japan would get the Vita TV first. The PS4 doesn't launch in Japan until February. So they need something to generate money. Since it drops in Japan on November 14th, maybe the US will see the vita TV in February.
I do hope it comes here. I def would pick one up
yeah, for $100 i'd hop on that shit every day.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 14, 2013, 12:16:50 PM
It makes sense that Japan would get the Vita TV first. The PS4 doesn't launch in Japan until February. So they need something to generate money. Since it drops in Japan on November 14th, maybe the US will see the vita TV in February.
I do hope it comes here. I def would pick one up
yeah, for $100 i'd hop on that shit every day.
What he said.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 14, 2013, 12:22:48 PM
After the initial buying rush I'm sure you'll be able to import one for $150 even if they don't come here, which is still cheaper than basically anything.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: TheClash603 on September 14, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
After the initial buying rush I'm sure you'll be able to import one for $150 even if they don't come here, which is still cheaper than basically anything.
How would that work region-wise? Do I only get to watch Japanese stuff on Netflix?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: bartre on September 14, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
nah, netflix is in control of that stuff, from what i understand; tracks via your IP or something. vita and psp games are both region free, i think.
don't really see a problem w/ importing, but it WOULD be a pain to have to go to that trouble.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 15, 2013, 12:07:17 AM
nah, netflix is in control of that stuff, from what i understand; tracks via your IP or something. vita and psp games are both region free, i think.
don't really see a problem w/ importing, but it WOULD be a pain to have to go to that trouble.
What trouble? You put your credit card into the computer and the mailman brings it to you, same as a US version.
Someone else should be the guinea pig and report on how well this works. If it is really this easy, I will be all over importing.
things like access to my current content on PSN concern me.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 15, 2013, 08:09:03 AM
I don't see any reason why it would behave differently than a regular Vita, and thousands of people play imports on that, including myself.
Basically, if you are playing cards there is no difference in region for the hardware.
With all the PSN stuff, including promo codes that give you rainbow colored M16s and shit, they are region locked. Switching between regions requires that you have an additional memory card and when you want to switch stores you have to change memory cards and do a system reset. It's a pain, much worse than PS3, but not a big deal.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: munchiaz on September 15, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
I had an issue using netflix on my Japanese PS3. It only worked when you had to use the dvd before the app came out. Once i updated to the app it stopped working due to different region
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 15, 2013, 09:39:20 PM
What region was your PSN account in?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Necromancer on September 16, 2013, 05:22:45 AM
Yeah...last year. With a very mature 360 and most of their losses from development and advertising written off in previous years. Looking at the entire history of the XBox brand I'm pretty sure they are still in the hole. They spent over $2B in advertising alone on the original Xbox in the first year.
It's true that they're "in the hole" over all when comparing expenditures to revenue, but that foolishly ignores the value of the brand they've built, game franchises, and studios created/purchased (i.e. - if you spend $200,000 on a house, would you say you "lost" $200,000?). But anyways, your point was that nobody can make money on console games nowadays and that's just not true; MS has turned a profit for six years running, even with the boat anchors of zune, windows phone, and surface.
* - The links for 2001's annual reports don't work, but the overall numbers for 2001's revenues and expenditures shown in 2002's report are similar to those in 2003 and 2002, so it's probably a safe bet that that year's loss in in the same neighborhood.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Arkhan on September 16, 2013, 07:55:39 AM
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: TheClash603 on September 16, 2013, 11:34:59 AM
Interesting Necro, but Zeta made a good point earlier with the sale of Sony's HQ.
In a former job I worked as a financial analyst and the net income line of a financial statement is essentially worthless. That number can be manipulated in a ton of ways.
You need to open up the 10k and take a look at the statement of cash flow, that is much more truth than any income statement or balance sheet will ever show.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 17, 2013, 01:02:27 AM
Yeah...last year. With a very mature 360 and most of their losses from development and advertising written off in previous years. Looking at the entire history of the XBox brand I'm pretty sure they are still in the hole. They spent over $2B in advertising alone on the original Xbox in the first year.
It's true that they're "in the hole" over all when comparing expenditures to revenue, but that foolishly ignores the value of the brand they've built, game franchises, and studios created/purchased (i.e. - if you spend $200,000 on a house, would you say you "lost" $200,000?). But anyways, your point was that nobody can make money on console games nowadays and that's just not true; MS has turned a profit for six years running, even with the boat anchors of zune, windows phone, and surface.
* - The links for 2001's annual reports don't work, but the overall numbers for 2001's revenues and expenditures shown in 2002's report are similar to those in 2003 and 2002, so it's probably a safe bet that that year's loss in in the same neighborhood.
I don't get it. Are you saying those numbers are actually not totally horrible? I wouldn't invest my money in anything that did that poorly. After more than a DECADE in the business they are still BILLIONS in the hole. If this is success, what does failure look like? Nobody even had a clue it was possible to lose this much money in the games industry until MS showed us how it's done!
If Xbox was its own company it would have gone straight the f*ck out of business before the 360 was released. Sega lost half a billion for a couple of years and it basically destroyed the company. MS loses this much in a quarter and somehow they are doing well?
Meanwhile Nintendo makes $100M profit of one Pokemon game and somehow they are failing or "in trouble" or whatever.
The whole thing makes no sense.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: munchiaz on September 17, 2013, 02:53:09 AM
I don't get it. Are you saying those numbers are actually not totally horrible?
I'm saying 6+ year old numbers are irrelevant to whether or not anyone can make money selling games today. MS has consistently made money for six years now (and Nintendo's been doing it forever minus one bad year), so selling hardware/software can be profitable.
I wouldn't invest my money in anything that did that poorly. After more than a DECADE in the business they are still BILLIONS in the hole.
For the sake of argument, let's say the numbers are reversed: they've lost $4 billion over the last six years but are still $3 billion in the black. Would you invest in a company that's losing money hand over fist because they were once profitable and aren't broke yet? Of course not.
If Xbox was its own company it would have gone straight the f*ck out of business before the 360 was released. Sega lost half a billion for a couple of years and it basically destroyed the company. MS loses this much in a quarter and somehow they are doing well?
I'd say they were in deep shit if this were 2007, but it's 2013 and no intelligent person would say hundreds of millions in yearly profits is 'doing poorly'.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 17, 2013, 07:31:46 AM
Your thinking is shallow.
That money they lost years back is still lost. MS isn't Amazon or whoever, they had those billions in actual cash reserves. They could have invested it someplace where it at least maintained its value. They could have invested it back into Windows and maybe that revenue stream wouldn't be drying up right now. You're way too obsessed with the 360 era, and just because a loss from one year isn't on the books anymore doesn't mean it never happened. Those are billions of real dollars they lost back then, real money that will never come back. Money they can't spend now. If they didn't have it in cash, if it was actual debt, they'd still be paying interest on it. Still paying off a $500M Taco Bell campaign from 2002.
MS is worth less now that it would have been if they just never gotten into the games business. They shifting their focus from highly profitable stuff to stuff that can only lose money for them.
Also, profit from the first two years of the XBone is impossible and MS is promising the biggest launch of all time...on a system that loses money...so...translation: the biggest launch day loss in history and losts more big numbers in parenthesis. Big ones.
Also, you're kinda straw man-ing me right now. I didn't say profit in games was impossible. Nintendo does quite well. What I'm saying is that I don't see why anyone would actually enter the game business as a top tier rival right now. Like, Sega for example. If Sega decided to make a Dreamcast 2 it would destroy the company. Period. It doesn't matter how popular it would be because to compete today you are required to develops a highly customized machine and basically give it to the customer at a $200+ loss. Then you hope they buy enought $60 games before the system gets cracked to pay for itself. It's a big business revenue-wise, but there is very very little money to go around.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: DragonmasterDan on September 17, 2013, 07:59:21 AM
I'd say they were in deep shit if this were 2007, but it's 2013 and no intelligent person would say hundreds of millions in yearly profits is 'doing poorly'.
They've made a successful business out of it, but the initial investment of twenty-ish billion dollars lost on the original generation Xbox, acquisitions and other things relating to that still has not been returned on the Xbox brand alone. In that sense, Zeta is right. They're worse off than if they never entered the game business. Now whether or not if they were to sell the entire business they have now to another company based on the "brand value" they've created and break even or even make a profit is an entirely different matter and would largely be dependent on if they sold that business in pieces or found a motivated enough buyer.
Added in edit: One other key component here is Microsoft very much wanted to be in the set top box business believing game consoles and web based applications to be a legitimate threat to their at the time Windows monopoly. Whether or not the Xbox was of any benefit to them in this regard or not is hard to determine.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on September 17, 2013, 08:56:10 AM
So....
has anyone read any reviews about Vita TV from the other side of the pond?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Necromancer on September 17, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
That money they lost years back is still lost.....MS is worth less now that it would have been if they just never gotten into the games business. They shifting their focus from highly profitable stuff to stuff that can only lose money for them.
Maybe so - I've made no argument either way. The fact is that it is profitable for them right now and I don't have access to your crystal ball to tell me that it'll never be profitable enough to pay off the start up costs. But I suppose we all know that only the almighty Nintendo can be profitable!!!
Also, you're kinda straw man-ing me right now. I didn't say profit in games was impossible.
Then what does this mean: "the division they [Sony] lose money on the least is the games division, and there is basically zero money, negative money, really, in top-tier hardware development and 1st party-ness"? If it's possible for MS and Nintendo to be profitable, why not Sony?
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 18, 2013, 10:10:47 AM
But it ISN"T profitable right now. Profits from this year are only possible because of all the shit they've built up with massive losses. The years where they lost $2B were the years they were developing the 360. You can't just...have...a console, you have to make it, market it, etc, and those costs are higher than any money they are brining in. The XB didn't pay for itself during its era. The 360 didn't either. The new one...well...I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they are just trying to Cold War Sony into bankruptcy...which is some sort of strategy, but will the market be worth owning once they have it? I mean, why would you want a significant market share in a market where there is no profit? I've said this before, but GM was number one in car sales world wide when they went bankrupt...the biggest bankruptcy in history.
If I take out credit cards everywhere I can, max them, have brain surgery with no health coverage, and then go get a 15 hour a week at 7-11 to get a $87 paycheck I can't say "Look! I'm in the black! $87! I'll still have $25 after I put gas in my car!". That's basically what you are saying works...it doesn't work in anything but the shortest of terms. Its golden parachute thinking, completely unsustainable.
The old model was spend $200M developing a new version of Windows, sell hundreds of millions of copies of it on $1 CDs with MSRPs of $60-300. This leads to MAJOR profit.
The new model is spend ten times that much on hardware and sell it at a %200 loss. HUGE loss.
Sony's problems are different. MS is losing money on the games business hand over fist, Sony on the other hand is making money on games (kinda) but losing money on almost everything else. Also: they are VERY recalcitrant to do anything logical and STILL can't develop an actual business strategy. After all that stuff I said about how the Vita could be the Apple TV Sony needs to keep the PS brand in people's minds all day...they just went ahead and announced this new set top box...that only works on Sony TVs...a market they are a distant 3rd in, slipping every day, and have lost money in 7 quarters in a row.
MS could cut the games division free and be the next IBM (in theory). Sony is just a f*cking mess. They are losing share everywhere from their main business. Kids today don't even know what a Walkman is and all the TVs most people are buying are from Korea. Sony, if anything, needs to spin the games division off so that the rest of the company can go bankrupt without killing the entire thing. Its the opposite situation of MS.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: geise on September 18, 2013, 01:07:16 PM
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: munchiaz on September 18, 2013, 04:09:41 PM
"In retrospect, I find myself wishing that Sony had released the Vita TV first, before they released the PS Vita. Handling the Vita TV makes me appreciate just how much potential the PS Vita has. If you're on the fence about getting a PS Vita, try handling a Vita TV and it'll make your mind for you."
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Necromancer on September 19, 2013, 10:30:55 AM
If I take out credit cards everywhere I can, max them, have brain surgery with no health coverage, and then go get a 15 hour a week at 7-11 to get a $87 paycheck I can't say "Look! I'm in the black! $87! I'll still have $25 after I put gas in my car!". That's basically what you are saying works...it doesn't work in anything but the shortest of terms. Its golden parachute thinking, completely unsustainable.
That's gotta be your most inept analogy yet, and that's saying something. :lol:
Contrary to your short-bus math, the 360 has been profitable during its time; admittedly not enough to completely offset losses incurred during the xbox's reign, but at least it hasn't lost money hand over fist (as the xbox did) and has even made enough to offset xbone development costs thus far. The xbone might make enough to cover all previous losses, or it might be a sales flop, have a rrod fiasco, or bankrupt MS with invasion of privacy lawsuits when Kinect gains sentience and starts taking pics of people in their underwear and posting them on the internet. Unlike you, I'm open to possibilities and not filled with certain doom.
Review of the system. (http://kotaku.com/checking-out-the-ps-vita-tv-1346565564)
I don't get why he thinks this should've been out before the Vita itself; the only thing a console-only Vita would have going for it over a PS3 is cost. What would be the point?
Though I have no real interest in getting a PS4 and want one mainly for games like Ys, it's good to know the PS4 streaming worked well. Even if lots of 'em are sold to peeps with no intentions of playing Vita games, the increased installed base should help lure devs and you know at least some of those buyers will eventually find a few Vita games that interest them.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 19, 2013, 05:22:22 PM
Falcom is working on PS4 games, so, you never know. We might get some big Ys titles for PS4 for all we know. That right there would sell me on a PS4!
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 20, 2013, 06:18:23 PM
Falcom games are not a reason to buy a new system, IMO. As much as I like Falcon their stuff usually looks about 2 generations old.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Bloody Wolf on October 08, 2013, 10:27:10 AM
i got me a pre order for YS for Vita....first game that actually interested me and i don't even have a Vita.. hahahah!
Falcom games are not a reason to buy a new system, IMO. As much as I like Falcon their stuff usually looks about 2 generations old.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on October 08, 2013, 10:29:15 AM
So how many games does a gaming system need to have in order to make it a worth while investment?
*rhetorical question of course. There are now about 5 or so Vita games that peak my attention. The system is becoming more attractive.
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: KingDrool on October 08, 2013, 10:32:58 AM
I'll probably get a Vita sometime early next year. Hell, Persona 4 Golden was almost enough to make me bite. But once Ys hits, it's going to be harder for me to resist. Plus, I've got a launch PS4 on order, and the Vita's going to be a nice companion.
Also: it's piqued. ;)
Title: Re: Non portable Vita, WTF? Vita Console what?
Post by: Nando on October 08, 2013, 11:18:17 AM
I'll probably get a Vita sometime early next year. Hell, Persona 4 Golden was almost enough to make me bite. But once Ys hits, it's going to be harder for me to resist. Plus, I've got a launch PS4 on order, and the Vita's going to be a nice companion.