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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: Otaking on May 11, 2014, 06:40:23 AM
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"Nintendo has posted a staggering $500 million operating loss due to slow Wii U sales."
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/nintendo-posts-huge-500m-operating-loss-as-wii-u-sales-slump
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Yeah Nintendo is being too stubborn with this one. The writing has been on the wall for the Wii U. People want powerful hardware for their money now, not gimmicks like tablet game pads coupled with underpowered cpu's and dated gpu technology. And this is a sentiment that has been expressed by most of the major development studios. Given all the years they spent on top by bullying competitors and developers and making enemies when they had clout, now they are here with obviously the worst hardware at market and no power or pull to exploit anymore because developers have 4 other systems they can release their games on, all with similar or much better performance.
Nintendo should be revising the hardware and offering a updated system with a faster cpu/gpu combo to get the developers interested again in the hardware, along with revised developer incentives for exclusive titles. That and start selling games that can run in dual mode, either running on Wii U as is with the current 360 like visuals and frame rates, or when run on the revised version of the console, with better visuals and frame rates.
Given how people tend to forgive Apple for their multiple revisions/versions being released to the Ipod and Ipad, it may be worth Nintendo to risk it. They could even offer a trade in program for people to upgrade to the revised hardware. Odds are Nintendo wont do anything like this though. They have always operated under a stubborn like mentality that the given course is the correct one always. They lay out their plans years in advance and don't deviate from them, which as you can see now is backfiring given all the bridges they burned over the years and due to their insistence of coming to market with the lowest system specs/cheapest system hardware.
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$500 million loss is staggering indeed, but let's remember that it will take 30 years of $500 million losses before they hit $0. I'm sure they're thinking of the long run in a way, if they're thinking at all. Cheaper Wii U may entice more, and the cost to make a Wii U will only go down, I presume, over the next couple of years.
It's bad, but it's not the death knell a lot of people think it is.
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The WiiU isn't horrible even with it's dated specs. Look at the success of the original Wii. The problem was the name and marketing on this one. I barely ever see any T.V. ads about it. The name WiiU implies that it's not a new console. I bet if you asked the average person they would think it's just an add on for the Wii or a freshened version. A lot of people don't realize that it's all new. There also haven't been any games that have fully utilized the peripherals. WTF Nintendo. There handheld business will always keep them afloat.
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It's about the Games not how Powerful the System
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It's about the Games not how Powerful the System
That way of thinking died with the Wii and PS2 basically. With home consoles now its about the most powerful hardware gets the most/best games. Many major developers don't want to work with the Wii U's weaker tri core PowerPC cpu and smaller hard drive size, so what you are getting for the system now is Nintendo exclusives and HD remakes, and a lot of kids games and digital download titles. You honestly cant blame them. Current mainstream games are just becoming more and more complex, and they eating up more and more hard drive size as time goes on.
Developers now want quad core and above fast cpus with out-of-order execution, a solid gpu, lots of ram, and a large hard drive. They want to make games on platforms that are easy to port back and forth to between the consoles and PC. They were very verbal about this and Nintendo chose to ignore it all in favor of cutting cost so they could get the tablet gamepad worked into the total price.
Because Nintendo wanted to ignore everyone, current ports the Wii U gets even struggle some to keep up with the 360 versions performance, etc. It is only going to get worse and worse as development for the 360 and PS3 slows down, the PS4 and Xbox One ramps up, and the Wii U gets expected to keep up with the later two systems and perform on the same level (which it cant).
And you also have the casual players and older generation that Nintendo captured during the Wii's time at retail that have been lost due to the Wii U's cost, under-performance, and the tablet controller adding complications to gameplay that casual players, small kids, and older people don't want to have to deal with. Even though Nintendo is unhappy about it, the fact of the matter is that the Wii U has become a niche product whose customers will mainly be Nintendo diehards or gamers with money to burn who buy more then one console, and it's Nintendo's fault it happened that way.
Maybe they will take this as a learning experience and bring something more compelling to market next time. It's an expensive lesson to learn, but Nintendo had to learn it sometime.
Anyway, the good news is you Wii U owners do get Mario Kart 8 this month. The bad news? You don't get Watchdogs and Wolfenstein: The New Order. Hopefully you kept those 360 and Ps3 systems on hand at least. Blazkowicz is depending on you.
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One other minor point about Nintendo's financial loss:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/01/sony-adds-200m-in-expected-losses-despite-ps4-success
the company is now predicting a net loss of ¥130 billion / $1.27 billion where in February it forecast a loss of ¥110 billion / $1.07 billion. Moving back further, at the end of the last financial year it expected a ¥50 billion / $489 million profit.
This is why it's hard to take the "doom and gloom" scenario surrounding Nintendo seriously. Yes, they want to be profitable, but they're hardly in the worse shape. I'm also not sold on the idea that the games are immaterial.
It doesn't look the best for Nintendo, but it's not the worse, and I'm sure they'll figure things out in a few years, or try something different (like they did for the Wii).
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Nintendo needs to follow Sega. Get out of the hardware business, and sell your software. How awesome would an ultimate Nintendo collection be for the Xbox/PS ? I love the Sega ultimate collection. The emulation is good, and the sound is terrific. Actually the Xbox disc sounds the way I remember the genesis sounding as a kid. The real genesis I bought last year sounds like complete ass! I must have one of the models with the jacked up sound processor.
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Well at least Nintendo won't release something asinine like the 32x as a upgrade to their system. I'm actually glad they aren't on board with the FPS craze as I seriously believe we are long over due for another crash. This is a good read:
http://gamentrain.com/the-videogame-crash-of-2014/#.U3DOoigUOKB
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Well at least Nintendo won't release something asinine like the 32x as a upgrade to their system. I'm actually glad they aren't on board with the FPS craze as I seriously believe we are long over due for another crash. This is a good read:
http://gamentrain.com/the-videogame-crash-of-2014/#.U3DOoigUOKB
. I agree! Especially the COD franchise. That formula is worn slap the f**k out!
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Well at least Nintendo won't release something asinine like the 32x as a upgrade to their system. I'm actually glad they aren't on board with the FPS craze as I seriously believe we are long over due for another crash. This is a good read:
http://gamentrain.com/the-videogame-crash-of-2014/#.U3DOoigUOKB
Good article, but seriously needs to be updated with respect to its prediction.
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lets not forget that we all died a bit when more powerfull hardware made the FMV game the standard (3DO)
likewise as the graphics and animations got more complex the gameplay was pushed aside, pushing most of us into (keeping us in) previous generation consoles
then the LCD/Plasma lag basically killed the ability of a home console to perform
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Nintendo just needs to get out some frickin' games. There's nothing they can do at this point to make it dominate the PS4 or Xbone, but they should be able to turn it into a profitable, minor player (like the N64 and GC).
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System can pump out damn nice visuals, it just needs more software...
Ubi delaying Rayman like they did and EA totally f*cking them over didn't help them at the start, and on their own faults, they let the Wii die too quickly instead of doing a better transition. The pad is fine but they did f*ck all to showcase as to why it was needed.
Both Nintendo and 3rd parties are to blame here, but the system itself, I love the damn thing, just need more stuff to play.
In the end there is plenty of Indie stuff coming and stuff like MKart8/Smash/Bayo2/X/FEvsSMT and so on will keep it worth having in the short term.
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As someone who does play call of duty. (I know blasphemy!) It is fun with friends and the ADD hyper twitch gameplay is enjoyable in small bursts. I am concerned though... In the most recent one (Ghosts) they have been rolling out a lot of what amount to basically micro transactions. I understand having map packs that come out throughout the year... Thats fine and I dont mind oaying for them. But now theyve added other purchaseables like camo packs etc. Im even fine with those since they dont affect gameplay or give any advantage to those who buy them. Recently though they added a new gun as part of a map pack. If you bought the "season pass" you got early access to that new gun. Its debatable whether or not its overpowered or not but its definitely near the top of guns in that class. So basically if you paid extra money you got access to a powerful weapon that might give you an edge over players who dont have it. I see eventually theyll make lots of game balance changing items purchaseables and thus making it a pay to win king of game. If this happens I think youll see some serious frustration from the series core fans.
Though now that I think of it... A lot of people I play with basically play nothing else so spending extra money wouldnt be a big deal since they basically buy one game a year. These same people spend hundreds of dollars on headsets. So I dunno... To me the microtransactions are a real turn off. Fortunately the pc engine does not support DLC so Im good there!
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This is why it's hard to take the "doom and gloom" scenario surrounding Nintendo seriously. Yes, they want to be profitable, but they're hardly in the worse shape. I'm also not sold on the idea that the games are immaterial.
Only a fool would think Nintendo is doomed. They are huge, and they have money stored away. They can absorb a mistake system here and there as long as they don't do it often.
Nintendo needs to follow Sega. Get out of the hardware business, and sell your software. How awesome would an ultimate Nintendo collection be for the Xbox/PS ? I love the Sega ultimate collection. The emulation is good, and the sound is terrific. Actually the Xbox disc sounds the way I remember the genesis sounding as a kid. The real genesis I bought last year sounds like complete ass! I must have one of the models with the jacked up sound processor.
I pity you. Model 1 original or gtfo. :P
Well at least Nintendo won't release something asinine like the 32x as a upgrade to their system. I'm actually glad they aren't on board with the FPS craze as I seriously believe we are long over due for another crash. This is a good read:
http://gamentrain.com/the-videogame-crash-of-2014/#.U3DOoigUOKB
Couldn't upgrade the system like that anyway. Outside of a USB hard drive upgrade, it's only option would be internal upgrades/revisions in speed, which is something they heavily need to consider. Even Microsoft is looking at ways to squeeze more out of their cpu, via small overclocks. Concerning the game crash, I was actually talking about this the other night with a friend. I honestly and not that pleased with where gaming is at today. There really is too much hardware on the market, and for every good title it seems like 4 bad titles pop up on any given system. This is why I have withdrawn to pc gaming over the years, and even there, there are issues.
Well at least Nintendo won't release something asinine like the 32x as a upgrade to their system. I'm actually glad they aren't on board with the FPS craze as I seriously believe we are long over due for another crash. This is a good read:
http://gamentrain.com/the-videogame-crash-of-2014/#.U3DOoigUOKB
. I agree! Especially the COD franchise. That formula is worn slap the f**k out!
Sadly they are onboard with it, just like they were with the Gamecube and the Wii. They have been trying to get whatever FPS, along with any other game in general, they can get on the system. Given they don't run that well though, it's simply an issue that many major developers don't want to port them over, so ironically the only FPS you get, other then Sniper V2(fps and 3rd person game), is The Walking Dead, Deus Ex, 007 Legends, and the COD ones right now, which perform worse on Wii U then even the 360.....
Nintendo just needs to get out some frickin' games. There's nothing they can do at this point to make it dominate the PS4 or Xbone, but they should be able to turn it into a profitable, minor player (like the N64 and GC).
Given the situation, and their experience with the Wii, I really don't understand why Nintendo does not invest in some North American and European development teams and make them permanent assets so they could get more variety and more exclusives out the door. They could certainly afford it, and there have been plenty of development teams needing investors as of late.
System can pump out damn nice visuals, it just needs more software...
Ubi delaying Rayman like they did and EA totally f*cking them over didn't help them at the start, and on their own faults, they let the Wii die too quickly instead of doing a better transition. The pad is fine but they did f*ck all to showcase as to why it was needed.
Yeah the system can do some really nice visuals when optimized and not forced to do/render certain scenarios. The problem has never been the gpu, it has been the cpu that makes it start to choke on games and drags the frame rates down into the teens. You can render pretty scenery all day long, but if the game does not maintain fluid gameplay and starts to choke.....
Concerning Rayman and all, I don't think Rayman would have mattered in the larger scheme of things. Rayman doesnt carry the same kind of franchise clout that Mario or Sonic, Halo or Gears of War has.
On the EA thing, EA, as much as I don't like them, I have to say they did not f*ck Nintendo over. They honestly don't owe Nintendo anything. Nintendo never did them any favors. EA made a business decision that was heavily influenced by its own developers, including DICE. Given how Mass Effect 3 had performance issues and was hard to port over to get working on the tri-core PowerPC set up the Wii U had, I can't blame them.
microtransactions are a real turn off....
QFT. I believe once you buy a game, that should be that. Consoles have been adapting the whole add-on, dlc, and micro-transaction thing though slowly over the past few years, and honestly, it sucks. Its really sad when you see something like Arkham City Origins have game breaking bugs that prevent you from finishing the game, and yet they keep pumping out DLC instead of completely patching the game.
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Nintendo needs to follow Sega. Get out of the hardware business, and sell your software. How awesome would an ultimate Nintendo collection be for the Xbox/PS ? I love the Sega ultimate collection. The emulation is good, and the sound is terrific. Actually the Xbox disc sounds the way I remember the genesis sounding as a kid. The real genesis I bought last year sounds like complete ass! I must have one of the models with the jacked up sound processor.
I pity you. Model 1 original or gtfo. :P
Hey mine is a model 1, but apparently there were even hardware revisions later in the life cycle of the model 1.
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Nintendo needs to follow Sega. Get out of the hardware business, and sell your software. How awesome would an ultimate Nintendo collection be for the Xbox/PS ? I love the Sega ultimate collection. The emulation is good, and the sound is terrific. Actually the Xbox disc sounds the way I remember the genesis sounding as a kid. The real genesis I bought last year sounds like complete ass! I must have one of the models with the jacked up sound processor.
I pity you. Model 1 original or gtfo. :P
Hey mine is a model 1, but apparently there were even hardware revisions later in the life cycle of the model 1.
Thats what I said original. You need to get either the HD Graphics one or the one right after it that is the same tech wise, just missing the HD Graphics logo. The later Model 1 decks are meh.
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QFT. I believe once you buy a game, that should be that. Consoles have been adapting the whole add-on, dlc, and micro-transaction thing though slowly over the past few years, and honestly, it sucks. Its really sad when you see something like Arkham City Origins have game breaking bugs that prevent you from finishing the game, and yet they keep pumping out DLC instead of completely patching the game.
And that's why the large majority of my video games are pre-2000, and almost all of my recent games are indie games/cheap Steam games with zero microtransactions. Only Civ V suckered me into buying DLC. Screw the rest.
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As someone who does play call of duty. (I know blasphemy!) It is fun with friends and the ADD hyper twitch gameplay is enjoyable in small bursts. I am concerned though... In the most recent one (Ghosts) they have been rolling out a lot of what amount to basically micro transactions. I understand having map packs that come out throughout the year... Thats fine and I dont mind oaying for them. But now theyve added other purchaseables like camo packs etc. Im even fine with those since they dont affect gameplay or give any advantage to those who buy them. Recently though they added a new gun as part of a map pack. If you bought the "season pass" you got early access to that new gun. Its debatable whether or not its overpowered or not but its definitely near the top of guns in that class. So basically if you paid extra money you got access to a powerful weapon that might give you an edge over players who dont have it. I see eventually theyll make lots of game balance changing items purchaseables and thus making it a pay to win king of game. If this happens I think youll see some serious frustration from the series core fans.
Though now that I think of it... A lot of people I play with basically play nothing else so spending extra money wouldnt be a big deal since they basically buy one game a year. These same people spend hundreds of dollars on headsets. So I dunno... To me the microtransactions are a real turn off. Fortunately the pc engine does not support DLC so Im good there!
It sounds a lot like what is going on with these freemium games on the iphone/android/tablets...
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Wii U was named terribly and the console will never be better than barely profitable. I play poker with a group of guys and I occasionally talk games with the one other gamer there. I have more than once heard the other players say "there is a new Wii?". Casual players genuinely do not know.
Nintendo could make waves by releasing a system that is portable and plugs into the TV. Essentially if they wait 2-3 years, tech should be good enough you can squeeze Wii U or better power in a portable. This would shake the unprofitable console, plus games could come out at twice the frequency and game sales would be huge.
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I think they should unify the 3DS and Wii U platforms into one.... A portable that has a home base/hub connected to your TV for big screen play / extra features etc... Or just give me a 3ds with a proper tv out
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Wii U was named terribly and the console will never be better than barely profitable. I play poker with a group of guys and I occasionally talk games with the one other gamer there. I have more than once heard the other players say "there is a new Wii?". Casual players genuinely do not know.
Nintendo could make waves by releasing a system that is portable and plugs into the TV. Essentially if they wait 2-3 years, tech should be good enough you can squeeze Wii U or better power in a portable. This would shake the unprofitable console, plus games could come out at twice the frequency and game sales would be huge.
I agree. I think we are already there with all these smart phones coming out with their quadcore cpus and 2+gigs of ram. I mean, if techies are saying that your smart phone is equivalent to a high end laptop a few years ago what does that tell you? At least Nintendo won't try to include a phone with their portables at least not yet.
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I mean, if techies are saying that your smart phone is equivalent to a high end laptop a few years ago what does that tell you?
That they're wrong unless by "a few" they mean "six or seven". Adreno 330 and Tegra 4 are about equal to geforce 8 series in terms of raw power.
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http://time.com/90801/nintendo-wii-u/
Just read that, good article, basically just repeats a lot of what I said already though.
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To put this I perspective: Microsoft lost BILLIONS on Xbox. Lost.
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To put this I perspective: Microsoft lost BILLIONS on Xbox. Lost.
. ^^le truth
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I'm pretty sure they're in the TRILLIONS by now.
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Microsoft is all about shifting money. They use money made off of patents, etc and other successful products to mask losses on losing products they want to continue to support until said products and tech either finally turn a buck, or they finally decide to axe them. Because they have so much revenue coming in their fall is highly unlikely, anytime soon. Really would be smart of them to sell the Xbox division off though. Can't think of anyone who would want to, or afford to, buy it though to be honest. Microsoft is in a funny position, having a top selling game system and not figuring out how to make a profit off it.
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Microsoft is all about shifting money. They use money made off of patents, etc and other successful products to mask losses on losing products they want to continue to support until said products and tech either finally turn a buck, or they finally decide to axe them. Because they have so much revenue coming in their fall is highly unlikely, anytime soon. Really would be smart of them to sell the Xbox division off though. Can't think of anyone who would want to, or afford to, buy it though to be honest. Microsoft is in a funny position, having a top selling game system and not figuring out how to make a profit off it.
Which is even more hilarious considering Xbox Live.
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IKR?
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I think they should unify the 3DS and Wii U platforms into one.... A portable that has a home base/hub connected to your TV for big screen play / extra features etc... Or just give me a 3ds with a proper tv out
The wii u and 3DS already do that to some extent..
I don't think any of 3 console giants are making much money this gen..
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The game industry as a whole isn't doing so hot right now. The PS4 has sold over 7 million units, yet Sony is still reporting huge loses.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/14/sony-financials-reveal-huge-loss-with-more-expected
We know microsoft is losing out as well. Nintendo is obviously doing the worst right now. I do think in time the Wii U will become profitable for them, but its not going to be on the level that the Wii was. You also have to remember, the Wii came out in 2007, a lot of people still didn't have smartphones or tablets, so the Wii had a strong hold on the casual market. But now that almost everyone has a smartphone and or a tablet, the casuals have moved on to those games.
I think Nintendo needs to realize that power comes first, and innovation needs to come second.
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Sony's situation is actually a lot worse than Nintendo's. Sony is flailing as a corporation -- even if their game division starts doing better, they're still a sinking ship because they have so much other dead weight. The PS4 is selling well, but that's offset by declining PS3 sales (which is understandable and predictable) plus the dead-in-the-water Vita (an actual failure). And that's their most promising division! Their other products are doing much, much worse. Plus, Sony's bonds are already classified at junk-level status.
Nintendo actually has more onhand capital than Sony does. Nintendo can easily weather some lean years with the mountain of cash they're sitting on.
Microsoft's amount of onhand capital dwarfs everyone else. Like, 30 times more than Nintendo (which has more than Sony). It doesn't even matter if they "win" -- Microsoft can just release whatever the hell they want without worrying, as long as it doesn't give the overall company a bad name.
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Nintendo in their arrogance thought everyone who bought a Wii would get the "upgrade". That and the stigma of being a kiddy platform.
But even then, what's the point in selling a 100 million consoles if they will end up collecting dust, without consuming content. In that regard, the N64 or the GC were (way) more successful.
Anyways, for those of us who got the WiiU, I don't expect tons of games, but I do expect good quality ones and I do expect the 3DS to be succesful enough to keep help it afloat, just like the GBA did with the GC and the GBC did with the N64.