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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: poizon74 on June 09, 2006, 12:25:24 PM
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Hi, I just found this forum and have recently became a very proud owner of a TG16 + CD system that I purchased off of ebay.
The card system works great, and the CD system loads right up. Lights on the CD player light up, but whever I try to play a CD the disc will not spin.
When attached to the TG16 the CD unit lights up with "PC" on the display but again the disc doesnt spin. When it take out the CD unit and try to play an audio CD the display reads "0" and the disc will not spin.
I have noticed when I first plug in the CD unit if there's a disc inside it moves slightly like it's trying to spin, but never does.
I've been all around looking at repair services and no one wants to touch the thing becasue it's so old. I'm actually a physicist and have done a lot of circuity and electronics work. I opened up the drive and looked around, cleaned it with circuit cleaner, but still no disc motion. I assume there must be some mechanical problem.
If anyone has any suggestions or have had a similar problem and found a solution I'd love to hear about it. I'm totaly comfortable with opening and operating on the CD drive, I just don't know what to look for or what to do.
Any help would be really appriciated.
Thanks!
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You could turn your Turbo CD system upside down and give that a shot. That maneuver did work for one of my friends' playstation when he couldn't get any of his disc to spin.
If that doesn't work, you should check the connection to the spinning motor.
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i actually have tried that, and still nothing. has anyone else had this problem?
Thanks
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is the laser located all the way to the outside? if it is like that you have to open up the unit and bring it back in a bit by spinning the axis connected to the motor.
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Can you find any fuses on the motherboard? Bridge them and see it it works.
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Hi, I just wanna first say that this forum rocks! Thanks so much for the quick responses and helpful hints.
The laser eye is stuck the whole way to that back. Last time I opened it up i did actually try to move it since it looked off, but I couldnt move the gears that control its movment by man, they seemed stuck. I'll give it another try today though and see if I can't move it a bit.
Where does the laser eye typically sit? towards the center? or in the middle?
Again guys, thanks a lot for helping with this!
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Towards the center. Always. This is the case with every CD unit regardless what system it is.
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not true, I took a look at my other systems when I noticed the laser eye problem. SegaCD and Sega Sarturn sit in the center as well as 3DO, but GameCube sits in the middle, Deamcast actually sits on the outside (much like my TG16 CD at the moment).
If the TG16 CD eye sits all the way to the center then there is definatly a problem. I'll try to move it again today, but I dont want to force it.
I'll let you guys know if I get it working.
Thanks again
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Actually it depends on where it was when you turned the system off, but the starting position is always at the center (it always moves there when you turn the system on).
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ok, the gears were jammed, but by moving it with my hand I got them to come loose and move freely. However, when powered up the disc still will not spin.
next I tried manually moving the eye to the center by moving the gears, this was easy enough, but again no disc movement. I'm starting to think that the drive the spins the disc of the drive that moves the eye isnt working properly. I'm going to keep poking around, if anyone has any other suggestions that would be great.
Thanks
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The power to the motor must be pretty weak. Check where it connects thoroughly and see if anything is loose. If a fuse is blown, you may need to replace the fuse or solder the broken connection back together if possible.
Best to check more thoroughly and consider the most probable option. :wink:
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I don't have any helpful comments for this thread, but I would like to say that the laser len aligning info you guys have provided is fun and interesting to read! I wasn't aware of all that stuff myself :D .
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I forgot to ask: does the Turbo CD use a rubber belt for the spinning motor? If so, I strongly suggest you take a look at it. If it has been stretched too wide, it has to be replaced immediately. Get an ordinary rubber band with the same thickness as the old rubber belt but with strong stretch resistance and loop that into place.
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I don't see any kind of belt on the disc drive.
I went and picked up a multimeter yesterday to poke around a bit more. Seems both my TG16 and TG16CD power supplies provide substantially more negative voltage than they are labled. The TG16 PSU says its a -10.5V but i measured nearly -15V, and the TG16CD PSU says -11, but i measured -16.
I went around then an measured a bunch more of my PSU's from different systems and noticed that many of them were really off from what they say on the front. So i'm guessing my issue isnt just a faulty power supply, though i can't help feeling that my problem is related to the power getting into the unit.
Looking at just the cd-rom unit now, i can get the front pannel to light us when i feed it almost any negative voltage. I tryed -6 and it worked, -9 and it worked, and -12 and it worked. It looks like those front panel displays arent to volitile.
I think i mentioned before when i fist plug in the power the disc flinches just for a second. I measured the voltage going into the drive and it looked to be only about 2V. i wonder if the drive is not seeing enough voltage.
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm having the same problems as Poizon with a Turbo CD I just purchased. I put in a disc, the disc makes an attempt to spin, then nothing. Meanwhile, I do get lights on the "Track Mode" display.
Unlike Poizon, however, I have no experience with electrical surgery. I'm willing to make an attempt to fix this thing but I'll need help. If you guys can offer me some advice, I'd really appreciate it.
Although the problems I'm having are the same as Poizon's, I don't know how to tell if the laser is pushed out as far as his seems to be, since I don't really know what the inside of this system is supposed to look like. I took some pictures using a webcam-- my apologies for the quality; this is the best I can do right now:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8250/neccd01hr8.jpg)
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8865/neccd02al7.jpg)
Is there anything irregular here? If so, or if not, what should I check next?
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A couple of things:
First, you have your multi-meter hooked up incorrectly, but it doesn't really matter. It shows that you have something, and its probably good enough.
Second, no, the CDROM units to not use rubber bands. VCRs and turntables use rubber bands, but usually not CD players. The CD unit uses a direct drive variable speed motor for the spindle, and a rack and pinion set-up for the laser transport. Gear lash does become and issue on these CDROMS but that usually results in a long period of it being really easy to skip, followed by skipping for no reason during audio CD segments. These problems will go on for years and years before they result in a total failure.
As for the position your laser is in, Nijhazer, its good. When the laser parts itself in an unretrievable position, its over the other side (away from the spindle). A CDROM2 unit will leave the laser wherever it is when you turn the machine off. When you turn it on again it resets to the inside to begin reading the disk. When the laser gets stuck in the usual way, its only stuck because it ran past the rack. Moving it pretty much requires opening the machine because the gears need to be spun by hand, and accessing that from outside is tough. If this ever happens to you, you should know that you only need to move the laser far enough to get it back on track. 1/4 if the way in is plenty. It can take it from there.
Do not smack, or drop your CDROM2.
Neither of you have a fuse problem.
I'd wager the problem both of you are having is that the laser cannot see the CD when placed in the drive. The initial twitch from the CD you are seeing is the CDROM checking to see if a disk is present. If you could see inside the thing at this time you should be able to see the laser attempt to focus (the lens will move towards, and away from the CD itself just like a camera lens) When it sees the disk, it will begin to spin at full speed, but obviusly you aren't getting to that point.
The lens is either dirty, or junked (scratched, won't focus well, or something else you can't possibly fix). Try cleaning it with alcohol and a q-tip...carefully...but thoroughly...such a balance! If that doesn't work then you need a new CDROM drive mechanism. I supose if its come to this then you might try messing with the mini-pots, but only move them slightly, and mark the original position so you can put them back when you are done realizing it won't help.
If you are using nothing but CD-Rs, try a real CD, even an audio CD, before you can be sure the thing failed. Usually a CDROM2 will play CD-Rs no problem, but they weren't designed to, so you can't realistically expect it.
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I haven't tried playing any CD-Rs in it.
Tried playing a handful of audio CDs in it-- no dice.
Tried cleaning the lens with alcohol and a Q-tip as per your suggestion-- still no dice; nothing but "PLEASE SET DISC!".
When you say I need to replace the drive mechanism, do you mean I need to find another CD unit? I should also note that I can hear something rattling inside the unit.
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I haven't tried playing any CD-Rs in it.
Tried playing a handful of audio CDs in it-- no dice.
Tried cleaning the lens with alcohol and a Q-tip as per your suggestion-- still no dice; nothing but "PLEASE SET DISC!".
When you say I need to replace the drive mechanism, do you mean I need to find another CD unit? I should also note that I can hear something rattling inside the unit.
Rattling> Meaning you shake it and it rattles, or the disc spins and it rattles? You need to be specific when it comes to stuff like that as it could be two totally different things. Rattling while spinning usually is dust in the drive causing it to skip gears. This can be fixed with caned ait=r. If you go this route, BE VERY CAREFUL!!! DO NOT hit the laser or the laser mount with this as it is very easy to kill it, the air will break it if you are not careful.
If youare getting rattling by shaking the unit, you broke something dude, plain and simple, and that is not good at all.
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I haven't tried playing any CD-Rs in it.
Tried playing a handful of audio CDs in it-- no dice.
Tried cleaning the lens with alcohol and a Q-tip as per your suggestion-- still no dice; nothing but "PLEASE SET DISC!".
When you say I need to replace the drive mechanism, do you mean I need to find another CD unit? I should also note that I can hear something rattling inside the unit.
Rattling> Meaning you shake it and it rattles, or the disc spins and it rattles? You need to be specific when it comes to stuff like that as it could be two totally different things. Rattling while spinning usually is dust in the drive causing it to skip gears. This can be fixed with caned ait=r. If you go this route, BE VERY CAREFUL!!! DO NOT hit the laser or the laser mount with this as it is very easy to kill it, the air will break it if you are not careful.
If youare getting rattling by shaking the unit, you broke something dude, plain and simple, and that is not good at all.
When I lift the unit, I hear something rattling inside it. I bought this from someone else and it's been like this since I got it, so I figured maybe that had something to do with it.
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I've had a lot of electronics develop rattles for one reason or another. Its not always bad, or even relevent. Many times its just a piece of flash plastic that broke lose one day, or something like that.
There is a pretty good chance though I'd say from your story that someone, one day, probably had this thing apart trying to fix it. He may have left a screw in there or something, but it was probably broke when he got to it, and obviously its still broke.
The drive mechanism is a HOP-M3, which I think is from...Hitachi? I forget. Its faily self contained, and is replaceable if you can find one. Since the thing seems to "do the twitch" I think it's fair to say that its hooked up right, and the door switch works, so you just need a new drive. All game systems eventually do this, although it probably happens less with PCE stuff than any other hardware.
You need to get a hold of someone like D-Lite if replacing the drive is beyond your skills.
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When you say "replace the drive", are you referring to this:
http://www.teamfremont.com/features/TurboDuoRepair.shtml
or something more involved?
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Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
They refer to it as being "incredibly easy". Well, for me it is, but I'm used to working with this stuff. Its pretty delicate, and not made to ever be messed with by non-technicians. The little micro-molexes (or whatever) are pretty hard to remove without ripping the wires out of them unless you have the nack for it.
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Hmm... I did email D-Lite, but in reading some other threads it seems he may be swamped with real-life business for some time. I wonder if there's anyone else that would be willing to take this job... If that lens part is the only part that's needed, I can certainly supply it.
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Well I'm not the local legend that D-Lite is around here, but if nobody else wants the job I'll be glad to take it.
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They refer to it as being "incredibly easy". Well, for me it is, but I'm used to working with this stuff. Its pretty delicate, and not made to ever be messed with by non-technicians.
I'm a complete electronics dunce (never did anything like that before), and I found it to be an amazingly simple procedure. However, you are correct when you state that those little wires are incredibly delicate. However, with a little patience and careful use of a needle-nose pliers, it shouldn't be a problem.
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I saw about this transport replacement before. Does the one that guys uses for the Turbo Duo work on the TG16CD unit? If so I'd gladly get one and try it out.
F.Y.I. - not sure about the power supplys, I've tested a bunch and some come out perfect right on the money, others are several volts off.... its jsut weird... i pretty sure i have it set up right.
Thanks again guys for all your help!
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I saw about this transport replacement before. Does the one that guys uses for the Turbo Duo work on the TG16CD unit? If so I'd gladly get one and try it out.
F.Y.I. - not sure about the power supplys, I've tested a bunch and some come out perfect right on the money, others are several volts off.... its jsut weird... i pretty sure i have it set up right.
Thanks again guys for all your help!
I wish that I could say yes, but as far as I have always known, no, the two systems have different mounting for the lasers, although this may end up being open for discussion as it has been years since I have had to do Jack with anything laser related to the Turbo Grafx/Duo.
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D-Lite never responded to my request, so I took it to a local fellow who works on game consoles. He's never worked on a TG16CD unit before but otherwise has quite a bit more experience with this sort of thing than I do. We've been working on it for awhile and here's what we've got so far...
The TG16CD does not use a HOP-M3 laser, it uses a Sony KSS-220A. When we opened the unit up we discovered that the previous owner had severed the laser's ribbon cable for some reason, so I had to order a replacement lens anyway. Mr. Installer has been excitedly tinkering with the CD unit, trying to get it to work, but so far, no dice.
He installed the replacement KSS-220A today and resoldered another wire that had separated. Nothing. Cleaned out the entire unit, still nothing. In the hopes that someone here could offer some suggestions on other things to check, I'm bringing along all the information I've got so far, though I freely admit that for much of what he told me, I have no idea what he was talking about.
First of all he asked me to check and see if anyone knew whether there was an ESD on the KSS-220A, an ESD apparently being some small bit that must be removed from the unit before it can be used. He said he looked over it and couldn't find one, but that it's possible he missed it somewhere because it was too small or something. Myself being a cynical sort, I personally fear that the reason he couldn't find one is because the store where I got the replacement part may have given me a worn-out unit even though they said it was brand new... but I've got nothing to support this aside from my own cynicism and the fact that the machine still doesn't work.
Second, he sent me a bunch of pictures that he took of the unit while he was in the process of replacing the lens assembly. I don't really know what to make of these, and the quality is pretty terrible, but I nevertheless uploaded all of them to my site; you can see them all here (http://www.broadcastgamer.com/images/turbo/). A note: He said something about a "pot screw" (?) which I think he said was missing, and he said these pictures would illustrate that.
If anyone has any advice, any questions, and/or any suggestions on how to proceed-- adjustment settings for the laser, other things to check, etc.-- please let me know; we're open to anything at this point. Thanks again!
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Man, those pics are really blury and dark. I can't see jack! I have no idea if even the best pics would help though.
If its missing a pot screw, then is it like...broken off from the pot itself? If that's the case then I would say that needs to be replaced for sure.
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If its missing a pot screw, then is it like...broken off from the pot itself? If that's the case then I would say that needs to be replaced for sure.
Could you elaborate? I'm sorry, it's just that I really don't know what he's referring to, or how I could get a replacement for that; and he's about as good at explaining this stuff as he is at taking photos.
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A bump for hope...
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This is a stab in the dark, but I've been tinkering with mine lately. You said it rattled as if there were something loose inside right? This may be too obvious but there is a screw that holds the circuit board to the top part of the housing, if that screw isn't screwed in, it might not work, cause I think it's a ground or something. Another possibility: there is a tiny plastic piece where the orange and yellow (power) wires connect to the motor that spins the spindle. That has to be screwed in perfectly (as I found out) or the motor will not have power. You can screw it in wrong very easily if you don't pay attention. If the motor has no power, no spinny. No spinny, lens movey all the way outsidey looking for data. I hope this helps.
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If its missing a pot screw, then is it like...broken off from the pot itself? If that's the case then I would say that needs to be replaced for sure.
Could you elaborate? I'm sorry, it's just that I really don't know what he's referring to, or how I could get a replacement for that; and he's about as good at explaining this stuff as he is at taking photos.
"Pot" is short for potentiometer. Its basically the same thing as the volume knob on a stereo only the ones inside a game system are really super small and need to be turned with a tiny screwdriver. If a person turns them too far they break. CDROMs often have little adjustments that can be made to fine tune the laser. It usually won't fix a problem, but someone must have thought it would and broke the thing.
If yours is broke you need to replace it because whoever broke it probably also messed with the adjustment a lot as well before they broke it, and its probably not in the original setting.
As for a replacement, I really don't know. Possibly Radio Shack, but they are stocking less and less of that sort of thing nowadays. You could get one from some broken thing laying around the house. A PS1 might work, and at least half of those are broken.
Just for you, I opened my Duo R and took a picture. I've never owned a standard CDROM2 unit, so I have no idea if the pots in your system are like mine, or if they are even broken in the first place.
(http://dutchie.trouble-free.net/~midlandc/c_files/images/minipot_pceduor_small.jpg)
For a higher res version, click HERE (http://dutchie.trouble-free.net/~midlandc/c_files/images/minipot_pceduor.jpg)
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Thanks a ton for the info! I passed it along and here's what I got:
The potentiometer isn't broken, the screw isn't broken-- I was confused as to what he was asking. He wanted to know if the pot screw is supposed to turn clockwise or counter-clockwise in order to increase power to the laser for this particular unit. He also said there was no screw securing the circuit board so that could be an issue. I'll know more later in the week, methinks.
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'Zeta, what is the thing hold back the wires!?
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'Zeta, what is the thing hold back the wires!?
Its Nipper from Starriors an ancient toy line from Tomy. Sort of like a spin-off from Zoids from about...1984 I think.
(http://www.starriors.com/images/cast/Trashor_-_NIPPER.gif)
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Thanks a ton for the info! I passed it along and here's what I got:
The potentiometer isn't broken, the screw isn't broken-- I was confused as to what he was asking. He wanted to know if the pot screw is supposed to turn clockwise or counter-clockwise in order to increase power to the laser for this particular unit.
I have no idea. The range is pretty small though, so I'd just try it in several positions.
He also said there was no screw securing the circuit board so that could be an issue. I'll know more later in the week, methinks.
Well, I don't know much about the insides of individual CDROM2 units, but a lack of a case ground is more likely to cause some sort of erratic operation than a serious failure like you have since the circuit is still grounded through the DC input. It does seem like the PCB should be screwed down to some shielding or something though.
Going back...didn't you say that the drive was parked all the way to the outside at one point? From a purely forensic standpoint that would lead me to think that the drive was working up until the point when it parked there, and never worked again, and whatever is wrong with it now might have been caused by people messing with it.
Its pretty hard to do this over the internet though. Even if I had the thing right in front of me there is a good chance I could never fix it. Looking at webcam pics on a forum makes it even harder :)
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Forget that, the lens is out because the cd isn't spinning making it impossible for the lens to read it so it works its way out looking for data. Your problem is either the circuit board ground (if that's what that is) or the main ground which is a black wire that should be soldered to a metal plate in the bottom of the unit. I don't know if the unit would turn on without that, but check it just in case, as it is easy to break if you take the unit apart enough times. also make sure that the motor is connected properly like I mentioned before. :wink: