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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: grendelrt on June 11, 2006, 06:59:30 AM
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My save games are starting to randomly dissapear on my Duo. If it is left off for a while everythign goes. This week though I started a new game of neo nectaris and saved, then 2 days later it is gone. My Dracula X save is still there from 2 days ago though. I am assuming the DUO has a battery back up inside it. I am ordering a security bit (unless someone can tell me a trick or other tool to use). I was wondering if anyone knew if this was likely the cause, the battery dying, or if it was something else. Also if it is the battery, does anyone know the size I will need to replace it. Thanks for the help :)
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I think it helps if you leave the unit plugged into the mains, but I don't know exactly how effective that is.
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Yeah it was plugged in the whole time.
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The Turbo uses a capacitor to maintain saves, not a battery IIRC. That's why keeping the unit plugged in helps maintain your saves (charges the capacitor up). Your capacitor could be going bad.
If you have to replace that capacitor...I don't know where it is on the motherboard or what kind you could use to replace it. I'm sure it can be done, but I've never heard of anyone doing it.
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There's no battery in the Duo unfortunately, and I don't know what/where the save "unit" is.
I suggest getting a Tennokoe Bank... it is also 4X bigger than the internal Duo memory.
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Ah gotcha, thanks for the info guys. I looked up the bank, since it is a japanese hu card, I would need teh converter to use it, correct? I have a US Duo BTW.
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Yes, you would need a convertor. They are so expensive though, its more cost effective (and much neater) to just modify your duo. If your not capable of soldering small wires, you can have someone else modify it for you. Most people on this board recommend D-Lite www.multimods.com (http://www.multimods.com/)
Not only can you use the tennokoe bank to save your files, but your opening up a HUGE library of great games. Worth it for sure.
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You'd be opening up a huge library of games all right.......japanese games! :lol: :wink:
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How reliable are Tennokoe Banks? I seem to remember reading a post somewhere from someone went through like 4 of them. Hopefully he just had a lot of game saves...
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How reliable are Tennokoe Banks? I seem to remember reading a post somewhere from someone went through like 4 of them. Hopefully he just had a lot of game saves...
Well, this is a question I raised a long time ago, but we never resolved it: How long will the batteries in the TB cards last? Will it be possible to replace the batteries on them (even if this is possible, your HuCard would get JACKED UP)?
I have several TB Hucards and they all work fine. But at least two people here at the forums have had duds (for one the battery was simply dead, the other was more obvious battery leakage / corrosion).
Over the years, I've heard a few stories about dead batteries (one was for the Populous HuCard, which is the only game to feature a battery save). Thankfully, dead battery stories have been pretty infrequent, thus far.
At this point, I would still strongly encourage folks to use TB. Just don't expect them to have all of your save states intact ten years from now.
IDEA: We should ask members here (and big ebay sellers, if they are willing to be honest and share info... like westexit) how many bad TB's they encounter...
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the battery can 100% be replaced. Taking the case apart and back together is another story.. Should be possible to get it apart cleanly with a little heat. The battery is almost definitly available from an electronics supply place. If not the exact same battery, then one of the same voltage.
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the battery can 100% be replaced. Taking the case apart and back together is another story.. Should be possible to get it apart cleanly with a little heat. The battery is almost definitly available from an electronics supply place. If not the exact same battery, then one of the same voltage.
Indeed, the one advantage of cartridges is that you can open and re-seal them relatively easily. Not so with the HuCard.
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I have two Tennokoe Banks, one I bought new and one I got mint from someone who took care of his games.
Both are buggy when using a Kisado convertor(mine's orange) and I'm pretty sure that they didn't work perfectly with my Duo RX either.
The first thing I'd recommend before using a TB is to make sure that you fully understand how to use the menus. Then plan out before hand how you want to b/u(I recommended straight uploads, no swaps) and finally save to 2 banks on the TB just to be safe.
I'd also fire up your TB's regularly to recharge them. The Turbo-CD's manual recommends turning your system on at least once every two weeks to avoid losing save files.
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So does turning the system on charge the TB (when inserted) up as well as the internal memory?
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So does turning the system on charge the TB (when inserted) up as well as the internal memory?
As I understand it, you need to keep the capacitor in the DUO charged to retain your game saves. So, every two weeks or so, you power-up your DUO.
The Tennokoe Bank uses a lithium battery and is completely independent of the process described above. The battery in the TB HuCard is not rechargeable.
Here is a short article that will soon appear on my new website (it may or may not be useful :) ):
VOICES FROM HEAVEN & ROMRAM HuCARDS
Ten No Koe Bank was another "oddity" profiled by Mr. Ireland in this issue. In modern parlance, Ten No Koe Bank is an 8K RAM "memory card" for backing up save files from the console's internal memory. The PCE CD-ROM peripheral contained 2K RAM internally (as did the later DUO console). Believe it or not, prior to the Ten No Koe Bank, players had no means of backing-up their save files. Once the 2K of internal RAM was filled, folks were forced to permanently delete existing files in order to make room for newer games. While the thought of deleting your high scores for Wonderboy III: Monster Lair might not have been too upsetting, the prospect of erasing your save files for Ys Book I & II would have been downright heart-wrenching. Now you could avoid the heartache:
"Ten No Koe means "voice from heaven," and this card is truly heaven-sent for PC-Engine CD owners ... This battery-backed HuCard (the first) contains 8K of RAM, allowing the user to store the entire 2K of backup RAM in one of four "boxes" on the card. The card allows you to store, retrieve or swap data between the CD unit and the card. This is also an excellent way to transport saved game locations to a friend's CD unit without bringing over your whole system."
In the excerpt above, Mr. Ireland states that Ten No Koe Bank (released on 09.06.1991) was the first HuCard to feature battery back-up (Hudson referred to this as a "ROMRAM HuCARD"). He was mistaken: Populous -- which appeared five months earlier on 04.05.1991 -- was in fact the first ROMRAM HuCARD. Populous contained a lithium battery for storing files directly on the HuCard itself, but files could also be stored the traditional way -- via the console's 2K internal RAM -- if it was available.
As it turns out, Ten No Koe Bank was the second -- and ultimately the final -- ROMRAM HuCARD ever to be released. It is not known how long the lithium batteries used in the ROMRAM HuCARDs will remain viable, but here we are, 15 years later, and they seem to be functioning as well as ever. When these batteries do fail, it will be interesting to see if they can be replaced without damaging the HuCard itself.
TRIVIA: Since Ten No Koe Bank is a file management utility, Populous bears the unique distinction of being the only HuCard game to ever feature battery back-up. Also, on 10.25.1991 Hudson released Populous: The Promised Lands (CD) -- an expanded follow-up to the Populous HuCard which offered five new worlds to conquer.
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Not to long ago my RX lost all of its saves, but luckily I had them all backed up on my TB. I don't know if it was just some sorta freak incident or if the capacitor is starting to fade, it does make me curious. I wonder how hard would it be to pop open the Duo and replace it. I wouldn't think it would be much more than a soldering job after you figured out which one was bad and what would be a suitable replacement. Of course I could be wrong and would appreciate a little insight into how easy it would be to fix. If someone took the time to take a few pictures and point out what to change and specs of the parts needed it would be a boon.
On another note the TB is an awsome accessory. Knowing that you have a back up or two is certainly reassuring. I wouldn't mind opening a dead one if I come across it. Maybe after fiddling with it I can find a way to separate the card without causing irreversible damage to it. I wouldn't be surprised if it used a CR2032 battery seeing as how every system I've had to open up and replace a battery too uses them. The Saturn does, the Dreamcast memory cards do, I believe the Sega CD does as well as SNES carts. I haven't opened an NES cart but they probably use them as well. It would be nice if they did since the battery can be gotten at virtually any place that deals in electronics.
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Not to long ago my RX lost all of its saves, but luckily I had them all backed up on my TB. I don't know if it was just some sorta freak incident or if the capacitor is starting to fade, it does make me curious. I wonder how hard would it be to pop open the Duo and replace it. I wouldn't think it would be much more than a soldering job after you figured out which one was bad and what would be a suitable replacement. Of course I could be wrong and would appreciate a little insight into how easy it would be to fix. If someone took the time to take a few pictures and point out what to change and specs of the parts needed it would be a boon.
On another note the TB is an awsome accessory. Knowing that you have a back up or two is certainly reassuring. I wouldn't mind opening a dead one if I come across it. Maybe after fiddling with it I can find a way to separate the card without causing irreversible damage to it. I wouldn't be surprised if it used a CR2032 battery seeing as how every system I've had to open up and replace a battery too uses them. The Saturn does, the Dreamcast memory cards do, I believe the Sega CD does as well as SNES carts. I haven't opened an NES cart but they probably use them as well. It would be nice if they did since the battery can be gotten at virtually any place that deals in electronics.
My friend, you're in luck:
1. Search for an old thread by D-Lite. He discusses the capacitor issue (in his experience, the quality of the capacitors used in the DUO is suspect, as many of them have been failing over the years). IIRC, replacing the capacitor is pretty easy. He has photos and step-by-step instructions. His website is www.multimods.com (http://www.multimods.com/) .
2. A fellow member here posted some pics of a TB (or a Populous) HuCard autopsy. I don't think he determined the exact type / size of battery used, but I'm sure he kept everything and we can get that info from him. Unfortuantely, it seems that there is no easy way to crack open the HuCard, but then again, I've never done any of this stuff myself.
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I've lost saves on my Duo too, I think a while back we had a thread on here mentioning how my Sega CD has kept saves for around a decade while being rarely plugged in while my Duo loses saves or corrupts them after a few months.
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You guys will want to see this site:
http://www.geocities.jp/hiropong_7650/pc_engine/pc_engine.html
Its in Japanese, but you can Babblefish it, or Sherlock it, or whatever.
There is a photo of the condenser that needs to be replaced in the Duo R if memory fails you, and he says its the same one that is in the original Duo. Also he shows the guts of a TB (its a CR2320)
http://www.geocities.jp/hiropong_7650/pc_engine/DUO_03.jpg
For the record, my US Duo keeps its saves just fine as long as you leave it plugged in. You might need to turn it on every other week or so, but I don't think so.
My TB still works fine, but realistically that battery has to go soon.
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My Duo and PCECDROM2 have kept saves for long periods of time without being turned on, though they are usually plugged into an outlet.
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You guys will want to see this site:
http://www.geocities.jp/hiropong_7650/pc_engine/pc_engine.html
Its in Japanese, but you can Babblefish it, or Sherlock it, or whatever.
There is a photo of the condenser that needs to be replaced in the Duo R if memory fails you, and also the guts of a TB (its a CR2320), and he says its the same one that is in the original Duo.
http://www.geocities.jp/hiropong_7650/pc_engine/DUO_03.jpg
For the record, my US Duo keeps its saves just fine as long as you leave it plugged in. You might need to turn it on every other week or so, but I don't think so.
My TB still works fine, but realistically that battery has to go soon.
Damn, what a great page. It's funny, actually: on that one page there are answers / insights to a whole bunch of things we have discussed in the forums. Replacing the Tennokoe Bank's battery (and identifying what type it is), the capacitor used for game saves in the DUO *and* the suitcase consoles, some info on the motors / gears of the CD assembly, the types of wrenches needed to open up consoles, etc. etc.
It was interesting to see that the PCE "suitcase" originally had IFU-30, only to be replaced with the more common "CD-ROM2 SYSTEM" logo.
QUESTION: I didn't understand the discussion concerning the "expansion ports" of the suitcase. I noticed very slight differences in the photos, but what's the main point of the discussion?
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Awesome page. Correct me if I am wrong, but according to that page, does that mean there are two versions of the PCE CDROM2 briefcase system; one that says IFU-30 and one that says CDROM2? If that's the case, I have the IFU-30 version.
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Damn, it says the TB battery may be electrically welded and near impossible to replace. It also confirms that opening it was really hard.
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Damn, it says the TB battery may be electrically welded and near impossible to replace. It also confirms that opening it was really hard.
I've got a feeling it isn't really that hard.
What's hard is trying to weld a new fuse into a PC Engine without melting the fuse itself.
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QUESTION: I didn't understand the discussion concerning the "expansion ports" of the suitcase. I noticed very slight differences in the photos, but what's the main point of the discussion?
I think he's saying that the "CD ROM System" version is the later type, and it seems to hold the PCE, and CDROM is place better. This reduces what he calls "noise" (in kana), and I'm not sure what he means by that.
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My IFU-30 briefcase unit seems to hold the PCE and CD in place just fine and I don't recall hear any sounds when plugging it in or anything :-k .
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I think the page refers to electrical noise/interference. The newer of the interface units have two metal contacts on the CDROM side that match up on the underside of the CDROM unit. At first I thought this was for power (maybe it is in some way), but the first revision doesn't have them. This is probably what the page referred to when it mentioned "noise".
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I just got done looking down through that page. It was pretty cool; I love looking at stuff like that. Seeing and hearing how something works is always interesting to me. It also gives me some confidence should I ever need to preform some emergency surgery on my Duo or my TB cards. Hopefully info like this will revive some systems.