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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Sales & Trades => Topic started by: Brraap on November 25, 2014, 02:50:44 AM
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I was hesitant about posting this here, but for those that like this sort of thing here it is
I have made ENGLISH manuals for Rondo of Blood and Ys IV
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I like that they don't look anything like the originals. I could see picking these up just for fun! :)
Thanks for the share.
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i would be in on the drac x manual and that cd label if you offered them. i dont see any issues with these since they were never released in english
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I really like the look of that Ys IV. I'd buy the complete game if you're selling that and depending on the price. I'm also curious as to what kind of CDs you used for these.
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They are Taiyo Yuden silver reflective, images are printed directly onto disc, not labels
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I would certainly be interested in some of these .. assuming reasonable pricing. By any chance are you supplying these to Toy Ratt in Milton, Ontario ? as he is selling what looked like the same for $45 each which just seems expensive for what they are.
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I would certainly be interested in some of these .. assuming reasonable pricing. By any chance are you supplying these to Toy Ratt in Milton, Ontario ? as he is selling what looked like the same for $45 each which just seems expensive for what they are.
Yes he is a friend of mine, His prices are a bit higher because its a retail store. But i sell them for close to the same price if they are being shipped to USA. I only ship with tracked shipping and that isn't very cheap these days
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I'd be down for complete packages of both if you would sell them that way.
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I'd be down for complete packages of both if you would sell them that way.
Yes i sell them complete. pm me
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prices ? where are you located ?
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Another question: Have you contacted the people who did the translations of the games like Ys IV and Rondo?
Not sure how much you're charging but if you haven't contacted any of the translators and whatnot I'm not sure how they would feel on you making a profit off of it. I'm not speaking on their behalf obviously but that's just my concern with it.
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Im interested in a complete Ys IV.
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BurntLasagna was pretty adamantly against it. :(
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There is next to no profit in this for me, i will sell the manuals with inserts and cases for the same amount as i will sell it complete, I have countless hours into the manuals and inserts alone. I did this so people could have something nice to put on their shelves instead of plain looking cd-r with some black marker scribbles
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If it's costing you anywhere near $45 to make a manual and insert, you're doing it VERY wrong.
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If it's costing you anywhere near $45 to make a manual and insert, you're doing it VERY wrong.
Didn't you know, printer ink cost like $2700 a gallon! :3
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If it's costing you anywhere near $45 to make a manual and insert, you're doing it VERY wrong.
Tracked Shipping is almost 20$ for 1 game or 4 games, thats where the biggest cost is. If i sell more than 1 game to someone the price drops drastically.
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Tracked Shipping is almost 20$ for 1 game or 4 games, thats where the biggest cost is. If i sell more than 1 game to someone the price drops drastically.
If it's costing you anywhere near $25 to make a manual and insert, you're still doing it VERY wrong.
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Using facebook is doing it very wrong, too.
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just an fyi if you want a cheaper option, i still offer the YS IV English Manuals for $4.
I have not bumped the thread in awhile but i still have them.
Full manuals are more of a pain to make i give you that Brraap.
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=9393.0
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the manuals I had copied for a few friends were 8.00 each and that was through a commercial company that did it with a profit margin. I think your full of shit.
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In before the flame war starts. :twisted:
In all seriousness, though, I like the concept, but I'm a little skeptical about the execution. I have questions:
Did you get ANY sort of permission from the creators of the translations?
Why are you doing this through a Facebook page, and not a website?
Why do your manuals and inserts cost so much? Is that the price for a complete game, or just the paper goods? If it's just for the paper goods, I really doubt that you're doing this non-profit. :-k
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STOP FLATTERING THIS GUY.
ALSO, STOP PRETENDING THIS IS JUST ABOUT THE PRINTED MANUALS/INSERTS.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE.
PROFITEERING.
Look, I like the idea of translated manuals. Yes, it takes time to translate (but who did the translation, exactly?) and it takes time to recreate a manual in English. It takes to design things that are aesthetically pleasing.
However, that doesn't excuse PLAIN-AS-BALLS profiteering.
Nobody should profit from the work of Bonknuts/tomeithous/BurntLasagna/etc.
P.S. Can someone screenshot Facebook. I don't do that sh!te so I haven't seen the page in question.
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Nobody should profit from the work of Bonknuts/tomeithous/BurntLasagna/etc.
He should probably contact them first, unless they've explicitly stated that anyone can use it for any end.
Assuming those translations are under a GPL-like license, the way I see it, there's no problem with him selling these manuals/inserts for any price, even $500 a piece. So long as he provides the pdfs (or whatever the format they're stored in) online.
That way people can print their own, and even print them and sell them to others. If he sold them for too much, someone would come in with a fairer price et voila.
If he wants to profiteer and not provide the pdfs, then he needs to use all of his own original work, that way he can license it however he wants.
Of course this depends on the license that the translators have on their work, they might say anyone can do anything with it (even what he's doing) or any projects using their translations must also be provided for free.
Nevermind the original game's licenses, because both the translation and manuals are almost certainly violating them.
P.S.
Regarding the Megaman PCE Memories release, does anyone know what license, if any, the Megaman code was released under?
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Ok im going to explain some things, for you guys that think im making a huge
profit on this stuff, The manuals are printed in a print shop, not at home,
and I only get 5 at time, if I was getting 100+ at a time i could get them a little
bit cheaper, but thats not going to happen. All the inserts are printed by me on glossy
photo style paper, It probably is overkill, but it looks really nice, and when i started
doing this it was for myself, and thats what I wanted. All the text for the manuals was
inserted by me. I used all original manual scans, erased all the text, rebuilt the pages
and then inserted the text. And then added or removed some pages as i went. As for
contacting the guys that had worked on the game translations, I tried to contact Nightwovle
but did not get a response. I thought about sending these out and let the buyer burn the
game, but some people dont have the proper knowledge, or the proper hardware to do
it themselves, and really in the end, it wouldnt be any cheaper for me or the buyer. And
the buyer could end up with a coaster. I test every game before i send it out. I have also
traded away more than i have sold, with members here on this site. A few months ago
I had a game on ebay that a member ended up buying, and when i realized it was a
member here i offered him a game of his choice, no charge. And he gladly chose one.
I also offered up a really rare game for trade a few weeks back. I could have thrown it
up on ebay and profited from it, but instead i decided to offer it for trade to a member.
And that member also chose a free game.
So im sorry if some of you are not happy about me selling a few games here and there
on my spare time. More people are happy about than upset with it.
Any members here that have gotten a game from me, feel free to post on this topic
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BurntLasagna was pretty adamantly against it. :(
I'm sure Falcom and Konami are fine with it. :lol: Nightwolve is also probably stoked to see the translated Ys selling for so cheap. He didnt put anywhere near as much time into it as was put into the manual and whatnots.
Heh-heh. Well, I was gonna tell him since he never contacted anyone in the translation projects beforehand to sell those CD-Rs close to cost, etc. Sounds like he says he's doing that unlike Tobias and his Megaman CDs, etc. Then again, here he's only offering the manuals.
You're Jodi, braap ? Yeah, I didn't get around to replying to you, I was gonna accept your offer for some discs and just tell ya to sell at cost cause if it's at profit the ethical way to do it is I gotta then contact project members and work out business with them and you, either flat fee, royalty split, or to donate and yield any take, etc... That's a hassle I don't need at this time.
I'd love to press a real CD-ROM of Ys IV some day, but I realize I can't stop someone from beating me to it and that person like Tobias assuming cause it's a free translation patch, it's free for him/her to slap on a disc and not bother to contact anyone that made it... It's understadable about not reaching someone inside the publisher for a license or paying $5k+ if you do, but fan translation teams are easily reached... I'd guess Tobias was more scared of Bonknuts asking for a royalty split of profits then yelling at him for doing it when it came to that Megaman CD... So what did the guy do instead ? Just pretended not to know where the Megaman hack/port came from... That's how it goes, 99% looking out for number one when you get down to it...
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Ok im going to explain some things, for you guys that think im making a huge
profit on this stuff, The manuals are printed in a print shop, not at home,
and I only get 5 at time, if I was getting 100+ at a time i could get them a little
bit cheaper, but thats not going to happen. All the inserts are printed by me on glossy
photo style paper, It probably is overkill, but it looks really nice, and when i started
doing this it was for myself, and thats what I wanted. All the text for the manuals was
inserted by me. I used all original manual scans, erased all the text, rebuilt the pages
and then inserted the text. And then added or removed some pages as i went. As for
contacting the guys that had worked on the game translations, I tried to contact Nightwovle
but did not get a response. I thought about sending these out and let the buyer burn the
game, but some people dont have the proper knowledge, or the proper hardware to do
it themselves, and really in the end, it wouldnt be any cheaper for me or the buyer. And
the buyer could end up with a coaster. I test every game before i send it out.
There I edited out the tail end, this is all you needed to say man.
I support doing these things to help the community but the right price point is key. I appreciate you explaining yourself as what you are doing is more costly, a lot more, there are other inexpensive print options out there that look just as good but if your happy with the results and others are as well then so be it.
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BurntLasagna was pretty adamantly against it. :(
I'm sure Falcom and Konami are fine with it. :lol: Nightwolve is also probably stoked to see the translated Ys selling for so cheap. He didnt put anywhere near as much time into it as was put into the manual and whatnots.
Heh-heh. Well, I was gonna tell him since he never contacted anyone in the translation projects beforehand to sell those etcRs close to cost, etc. Sounds like he says he's doing that unlike Tobias and his Megaman CDs, etc. Then again, here he's only offering the manuals.
You're Jodi, braap ? Yeah, I didn't get around to replying to you, I was gonna accept your offer for some discs and just tell ya to sell at cost cause if it's at profit the ethical way to do it is I gotta then contact project members and work out business with them and you, either flat fee or royalty split, etc...
The only profit I make is MAYBE my gas money to drive to the nearest post office when i need to ship a game. Another cost i never factor into things. Living in the boonies, and a 25-30 min drive to the post office
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Don't over sell it man, Christ.. Look at my prices? You want to get into details and time I spend and not charge for. Sigh. I have a couple glasses of wine in me, happy thanksgiving I should just go to bed.
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Ok im going to explain some things, for you guys that think im making a huge
profit on this stuff, The manuals are printed in a print shop, not at home,
and I only get 5 at time, if I was getting 100+ at a time i could get them a little
bit cheaper, but thats not going to happen. All the inserts are printed by me on glossy
photo style paper, It probably is overkill, but it looks really nice, and when i started
doing this it was for myself, and thats what I wanted. All the text for the manuals was
inserted by me. I used all original manual scans, erased all the text, rebuilt the pages
and then inserted the text. And then added or removed some pages as i went. As for
contacting the guys that had worked on the game translations, I tried to contact Nightwovle
but did not get a response. I thought about sending these out and let the buyer burn the
game, but some people dont have the proper knowledge, or the proper hardware to do
it themselves, and really in the end, it wouldnt be any cheaper for me or the buyer. And
the buyer could end up with a coaster. I test every game before i send it out.
There I edited out the tail end, this is all you needed to say man.
I support doing these things to help the community but the right price point is key. I appreciate you explaining yourself as what you are doing is more costly, a lot more, there are other inexpensive print options out there that look just as good but if your happy with the results and others are as well then so be it.
I agree with Sparky.
I will be more precise in my misgivings, though. Below, I explain my fears/my suspicions....
Please believe me when I say I that I hope you stay with us and possibly even collaborate on future non-profit projects (see very bottom). Our community needs talented people who want to create stuff and share it. When $$$ is involved...well, it becomes a touchy subject...as this thread is a testament to.
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR POST:
I hear you and I want to believe you. Assuming you are sincere, let me start by saying that I fear your good intentions have still led you down the wrong path, IMHO.
Why?
Including the CD-ROM as part of the package— That's a major sticking point. There is no way I can excuse this.
Remove the CD-ROM and then I am much more comfortable with the idea.
I would still criticize you for the prices, of course, but people would LITERALLY only be paying for the specific services YOU provided (YOUR ACTUAL LABOR: scanning/modifying the items, printing them, assembling them, packing, shipping). If folks felt your labor was worth $___, so be it.
See?
My fear, comrade, is that you anticipated that only a handful of people would find the printed items ALONE (the fruit of your labor) to be worth what you are asking, so....you include the CD-ROM (the fruit of others' labor) to ensure you can charge a premium price for the overall package.
My fear, you see, is that the CD-ROM itself is what many folks want (it helps justify the overall price you are charging).
As Necro stated earlier, if you need $45+ dollars to simply cover all your expenses...just don't do it as a "service"....
DISCLAIMER: I am not saying you are a evil. I don't know your true intentions. I don't know if you see DOLLAH SIGNS when you rest your head on your scanner....
WHAT I AM SAYING IS that however sincere your intentions, your execution was flawed and led to very predictable condemnations (from a few of us).
To put it another way: dump the CD-ROM from your offerings.
Sorry to ruin your day.....BUT.....
Also, maybe you (we) should work on some additional PCE manual translations. But we won't charge for it. And we won't choose HIGHLY PROFITABLE titles like Dracula X. Instead, we could choose games that are lots of fun (Son Son II) especially with a manual that provides valuable info...our mission would be to broaden the appeal/accessibility of these games by offering an English manual.
I'm serious. :)
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm move comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
That said. I thought it was a really cool idea and if I had the money I'd be a buyer. Kudos for actually doing it.
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.
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For the people that havent seen the disc's. These are not just stick on labels.
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.
Well, there is *more* to my argument.
For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).
I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.
Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).
slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.
:)
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
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[/quote]
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
[/quote]
I understand your perspective on it, but my perspective is, give people what they want, if they want
just the manual and inserts and cd tray, cool. If they want the disc along with it, cool. If they want the disc blank (with no data) and want to burn it themselves, cool. I cant make everyone happy, but I dont see any harm in giving them a nice disc to go along with the rest of it.
looks like i need a lesson on quotes...... :dance:
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TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical
Exactly.
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For the people that havent seen the disc's. These are not just stick on labels.
R@R3! L@@K! UNRELEASED ENGLISH PROTOTYPE OF DRACULA X!!
This is the version that Konami was going to release in North America if the Turbo Duo had sold better. It was eventually released as part of the PSP Dracula X Chronicles. Now you can own this rare prototype, never released at retail! Only three known to exist! BIN $5,000.00
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TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical
Heh, that's gotta be your most clever burn yet around here to my knowledge. ;)
Tangent: Just posted this on my new Windows 8.1 10" tablet (Black Friday score) and I can't believe how fast it is, fast enough to handle a damn browser at the very least. Yay, I'm happy with it! My 7" cheap Android tablet was driving me insane with its bugs, slowdowns, etc. None of the damn browsers ever worked properly on it. None, bugs everywhere and turtle operating speeds so much so I wanted to break the thing in half! Never have I been so happy to get rid of a computing device, sorry to say! /end tangent
Well, esteban means well and the history of bootleggers continues to be shady, so it's understandable... I had a bit of a negative reaction admittedly when I randomly ran into brraap on Facebook, but I didn't really feel like starting a fight over it. If Ys IV is sold at cost then I guess that's that.
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.
Well, there is *more* to my argument.
For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).
I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.
Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).
slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.
:)
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.
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TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical
Heh, that's gotta be your most clever burn yet around here to my knowledge. ;)
Well, esteban means well and the history of bootleggers continues to be shady, so it's understandable... I had a bit of a negative reaction admittedly when I randomly ran into brraap on Facebook, but I didn't really feel like starting a fight over it. If Ys IV is sold at cost then I guess that's that.
If it's at cost I'm ok with it. And of course if the translators are ok with it. Nice to hear from you (don't know about burnt lasagna or others). Not that i know every person involved with the translation process, but of the few i know you're the only one I've heard speak about it (unless I'm wrong).
The thing i still don't understand is why shipping costs so much. Are you located in Canada or something? It seems like the actual cost of say the entire Ys IV cd/manual/inserts/etc. would be around $25-30 which doesn't seem too bad. But $45 just seems high and if i recall correctly, you said shipping costs like $15 with tracking. Am i just not that knowledgeable about shipping costs or is that high...? :-k
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.
Well, there is *more* to my argument.
For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).
I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.
Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).
slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.
:)
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.
Re-read my post.
If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.
I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.
DAMN, SON.
Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan
I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.
YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from their artwork and IP.
I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.
I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.
Well, there is *more* to my argument.
For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).
I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.
Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).
slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.
:)
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.
Re-read my post.
If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.
I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.
DAMN, SON.
Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan
I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.
YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from their artwork and IP.
I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.
I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).
If I can be frank, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I've not been paying attention to this community but for a couple of short months. Please assume that the intricate happenings of it are not general knowledge just because I have a TG-16. I don't know the happenstance of Megaman and Tobias. Therefore I have had no knowledge of how it relates to our current situation. The only thing I can assume is that the fruits of someone else's labor refers to an English translation of the game by them that is now being created and sold by another. Is that correct? I offer a resolution. If it is their work, I submit that they should make an attempt to protect it. Copyright? Or is it that that is not possible because it is still the legal property of Konomi? If that is the case then I say legally speaking the claim to their work is Konomi's and not their own anyway. I'd also offer that if they wanted to retain the ability to claim "rights" to their work then maybe make it so some guy can't just download and burn it. Copy protection exists now. We aren't NEC making CD games in 1990. Claiming rights and protecting rights goes hand in hand. There is also the assumption that he is cleaning up on profits from this. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says that cost is cost, and he's not making much if anything. Perhaps he'll indulge us with a photo of a receipt for his materials and if cost is indeed his claimed cost, then I'd say regardless which argument one chooses between ours, it doesn't matter because he'll have proved that he's not making profit from other's labor. Is that fair?
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I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.
Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.
:)
Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.
Well, there is *more* to my argument.
For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).
I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.
Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).
slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.
:)
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.
Re-read my post.
If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.
I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.
DAMN, SON.
Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan
I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.
YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from their artwork and IP.
I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.
I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).
If I can be frank, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I've not been paying attention to this community but for a couple of short months. Please assume that the intricate happenings of it are not general knowledge just because I have a TG-16. I don't know the happenstance of Megaman and Tobias. Therefore I have had no knowledge of how it relates to our current situation. The only thing I can assume is that the fruits of someone else's labor refers to an English translation of the game by them that is now being created and sold by another. Is that correct? I offer a resolution. If it is their work, I submit that they should make an attempt to protect it. Copyright? Or is it that that is not possible because it is still the legal property of Konomi? If that is the case then I say legally speaking the claim to their work is Konomi's and not their own anyway. I'd also offer that if they wanted to retain the ability to claim "rights" to their work then maybe make it so some guy can't just download and burn it. Copy protection exists now. We aren't NEC making CD games in 1990. Claiming rights and protecting rights goes hand in hand. There is also the assumption that he is cleaning up on profits from this. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says that cost is cost, and he's not making much if anything. Perhaps he'll indulge us with a photo of a receipt for his materials and if cost is indeed his claimed cost, then I'd say regardless which argument one chooses between ours, it doesn't matter because he'll have proved that he's not making profit from other's labor. Is that fair?
As I said, it's about ethics.
I didn't mention copyright or IP or legal ownership of anything.
Ethics:
(1) I proposed that it is unethical to overcharge (gouge) for products/services.
(2) I proposed that it is unethical to profit from a fan-created product/service.
That's it. :)
Legally, folks are allowed to do lots of things.
That's why I made it an issue of ethics.
Because a douche move is a douche move, regardless of legality. :)
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I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.
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I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.
:)
Like I said, I love you, slinky, for being the only one brave enough to keep the dialogue going.
But, yeah, I've wasted enough of our time.
Here is the thread about PCE MegaMan (you might not have known this exists...)
(1) Bonknuts PCE MegaMan
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11230.msg212640#msg212640
(2) Tobias took fan port, burned CD-R's and sold them for profit:
http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/
Tobias is still very active (you may have seen the recent threads about the PCE / DUO bootleg boxsets)
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Any more of those megaman copies circulating around? That looks like something I'd be interested in purchasing at some point.
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Click este's 2nd link: sold out.
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I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.
:)
Like I said, I love you, slinky, for being the only one brave enough to keep the dialogue going.
But, yeah, I've wasted enough of our time.
Here is the thread about PCE MegaMan (you might not have known this exists...)
(1) Bonknuts PCE MegaMan
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11230.msg212640#msg212640
(2) Tobias took fan port, burned CD-R's and sold them for profit:
http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/
Tobias is still very active (you may have seen the recent threads about the PCE / DUO bootleg boxsets)
Now I'm not sure how much Tobias sold the PCE MegaMan's for, but Brrraaapp is now selling his own version as well....I uhhh..... :-k
The whole price thing is still an issue with me though, I agree. I'm very confused why one game costs $45 and with the lack of information I have about this, it steers me away.
But esteban, awhile ago in this thread you said that if he were to sell everything but the burned CD, that would be ok. Why exactly? I'm just curious.
Hypothetically, if $45 really is at cost (which i doubt) AND (hypothetically again) he got the consent from the translators for say, Ys IV, would that be ok? Does the issue lie with the fact that it's someone's translation-work being "manufactured", hence taking away their efforts to provide a free English patch? Or does the issue arise when you throw in the aspect of this price debacle (charging too much) which has not been sorted out?
Hope I'm not beating a dead horse, I just want to understand this. I guess if anything I'll get sparky's Ys IV manual when i get the MC box. :)
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Oh, I thought the second link was to Tobias' copies for sale. I didn't want to buy from him.
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I have actually been talking with this guy for a bit now, and although I have not seen receipts, I have to believe him when he says he is not making much if anything off of these. The manuals aren't being done in house, but at a shop, so there is a lot of cost right there. By the time you get say 5 or 10 done, and pick them up you have spent a bit in time, gasoline, and material. Ink for a decent printer for inserts and the discs is freaking high as well, we all know that. To top it off, the discs he are using are some high quality blanks, not the crappy ones you find in an everyday Wal-Fart. I even spoke to him about just printing the labels on blank discs, and allowing the buyer to burn their own game. We all know, that is NOT the best idea. It will happen, someone will attempt to burn a game and create a coaster, and now we have a wasted beautiful piece of shit that won't do anything. Anyone here that has burned one ( see what I done there :) ), knows it happens. Basically, you are't paying for the game itself, but the art and inserts along with the physical media. The burned game is actually a service to the buyer. Not only are they burned, but are tested in an actual Duo before he prints the labels on them. I for one think this is an excellent idea. I myself am fairly good at burning the games, and playing them in my own hardware....but do I want to buy the package, along with a blank CD-R with a nice looking label, and take the chance on fudging it? :-k Not really..
I guess I am trying to say, I don't see an issue with paying guy A, for creating something that guy B cannot, even it is does mean Mr. A makes a few bucks off it. This guy is pretty down to Earth, and I truly believe what he is saying. Some people don't give two shits if their CD-R has sharpie on it, or a printed sticker label, and to be honest with you all I don't either, but these really do look good. For those folks, they don't have to actually get the disc. I am willing to bet, the price would reflect that.
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But esteban, awhile ago in this thread you said that if he were to sell everything but the burned CD, that would be ok. Why exactly? I'm just curious.
Hypothetically, if $45 really is at cost (which i doubt) AND (hypothetically again) he got the consent from the translators for say, Ys IV, would that be ok? Does the issue lie with the fact that it's someone's translation-work being "manufactured", hence taking away their efforts to provide a free English patch? Or does the issue arise when you throw in the aspect of this price debacle (charging too much) which has not been sorted out?
Hope I'm not beating a dead horse, I just want to understand this. I guess if anything I'll get sparky's Ys IV manual when i get the MC box. :)
Oh, it's simple.
If he removes the CD-R, then $45 is for the printed paper manual/insert materials only—folks can decide for themselves if $45 is worth it.
Now, upon doing this, I told Brasppppp I would still have issue with his price.
But I feel a lot better with folks paying $_____ for the work Braaap actually completed himself (manual+insert).
I always had two grievances against Brraapp:
(1) including the CD-R
(2) his price
He can make my first grievance disappear immediately.
He can see if folks are willing to pay $45 without the game.
I have suggested that he knows $45 for paper alone is a tough sell, which is why I suspect he includes the CD-R.
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I guess I am trying to say, I don't see an issue with paying guy A, for creating something that guy B cannot, even it is does mean Mr. A makes a few bucks off it. This guy is pretty down to Earth, and I truly believe what he is saying. Some people don't give two shits if their CD-R has sharpie on it, or a printed sticker label, and to be honest with you all I don't either, but these really do look good. For those folks, they don't have to actually get the disc. I am willing to bet, the price would reflect that.
I love you Bernie :)
I agree about the design/quality. I have stated that everything looks nice.
Also, I agree about the impractical nature of selling blank media with design on it (except I wouldn't use a bad burn as a coaster, I'd put it in a frame).
However, Brraaaapp can avoid all of this by simply following what Sparky does: Sparky doesn't deal with the games themselves (HuCARD or CD). People pay Sparky for Sparky's design and workmanship and labor.
Read my response to NightWolve above.
HONESTLY, if Brrraaap is not motivated by the money, this should not be an issue AT ALL.
Let some folks cry about not having a fancy disc.
Morality and ethics—sometimes they require you to forgo indulgences like cute artwork on a CD-R.
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I concur, null. :)
Also, I was trying to be subtle, but some folks need help with the obvious: these forums are not for selling ISO's/CDR's of Ys IV, Dracula X, and/or __________.
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As we all know, the PCE Drac X is still available on the Wii Virtual Console. I guess Konami frowns on seeing bootlegs being sold.
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I kind of take issue with the worry of the feelings of the folks working the translations. Either sell them yourself and don't post them up for free, or post them for free and expect someone to finish the complete package and sell it. One or the other.
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Also to clarify the mention of $45 was from me. And that was the price that a local retail store (Toy Ratt) in Milton, Ontario, Canada is selling them for (so they get them from Brraap and have their markup to make some profit .. I won't comment on my opinion of seeing these in a retail store). So that is $45 CDN, and not from Brraap. I'm not sure I actually saw him post his prices (maybe I missed it). He can't help shipping costs (and yes, appears he's in Canada), so they are what they are. I might be considering a Y's IV and Fantasy Star Soldier if he does them in the new year depending on the cost directly to me.
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I feel this guy is exaggerating shipping costs. Also, everything else.
I shipped an extra copy of Street Fighter II CE in the original fat ass jewel case dual that it came in to a friendo in teh Canadadada not that long ago. was like $16-ish. And yes that was with tracking and blah blah blah.
Also, Taiyoyeryota discs < Mitusi/Mam-A. For serious. Bam. Done. Print. Sex.
(http://i.imgur.com/3kaUa31.png)
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I have actually been talking with this guy for a bit now, and although I have not seen receipts, I have to believe him when he says he is not making much if anything off of these. The manuals aren't being done in house, but at a shop, so there is a lot of cost right there. By the time you get say 5 or 10 done.....
I repeat: if it's costing him anywhere near that much he's doing it wrong. A professional CD place will do up 50 with full color manuals/insert/disc (quality thermal print not comparatively fragile and shitty inkjet print) and with a jewel case for $150. While that may be more quantity than is desired or needed, at his prices you'd only have to sell six to break even; you could then toss the rest in the trash and you'd still have a better product for the six that were sold.
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Im going to try and clarify the pricing for you guys, i DO NOT charge 45$ for one of these. If someone wants 1 complete, its 45$ with tracked shipping to the USA. If they want 2, 65$, 3 85$, 4 100$. Shipping for 1 or up to 4 is not that much difference in price. I didn't think i was going to have to do this, but to try and make some of you feel better about this, picture 1 is 1 game sent to Utah. That does not include packaging. Picture 2 is 4 sent to Rhode Island. I cannot control the shipping prices, It is what it is. Shipping across Canada is pretty well the same prices too.
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Good GOD, why is it so damn high to ship in and out of Canada? ugh...
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Good GOD, why is it so damn high to ship in and out of Canada? ugh...
I don't know .. and it sucks. But at least if we get it via USPS it seems to be duty free. When it comes Fedex, UPS, DHL or similar we also get hit for duty, taxes, customs/brokerage fees. But please don't blame us friendly Canadians. I keep offering all at turns (in raffles) to cover any delta in shipping costs so I can be included. But it's rather ridiculous lately.
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Damn Canadians..... :)
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Damn Canadians..... :)
Sorry!
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Sled Dogs Gotta Eat.
Good GOD, why is it so damn high to ship in and out of Canada? ugh...
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Damn Canadians..... :)
LOL.
I have to admit that my 6 months spent in Virginia proved me that shipping charges where preventing me to get nice game at fair price in Canada.
Look at shipping prices on ebay you will often see: Free for lower 48 states and 14.99$ to Canada ! So don't expect Canadian to be able to ship for 3$ when you can't do it under 10$ the other way around.
We used to have great price on shipping to USA but i guess they saw an opportunity to make profits.
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The last time I mailed a game up north it was ~$7, but I don't have a hard-on for tracking.
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I'm mostly interested in the booklet and cd tray. It shouldn't be a lot to do that.
By the way, I got Tobias latest PC Engine Memories collection, and he did an outstanding job on the booklets, plus the CDs are pressed not burns.
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Ethics be damned. I'm opposed to anything that jeapordizes future translations. If the people that do the work give it away freely, and if profit is not a motive, then the pdf/tiff/whatevers should be freely available, too.
What about Sparky? SPARKY DOESN'T GIVE OUT HIS PRINT TEMPLATES!
That is different. He does repros of original stuffs that involved 0 blood, sweat, or tears from the community. He offers them for a fraction of the cost Braaaaaaap is asking.
If it really is costing $45 to print these suckers, maybe Braaaap should consider teaming up with Sparky to have them printed affordably. And stop with the burned discs. Sell em blank. If someone doesn't know how to burn a disc, there are plenty here who would do it out of the kindness of their heart for the cost of shipping or offer tutelage for free.
brought to you by DoxPhile
Way ahead of you Nully, i messaged this guy and offered advice on stock and told him with my many years of shipping stuff out from inserts to spine labels to the USA from Canada, every package has arrived and everyone has been happy with what they have received throw regular mail. Cost is anywhere form $3-$5 for paper, add a cd or 2 and it should be about $10. I Have not been screwed over once! <<knock on wood>>
He seems like I good guy but Its up to him now on what he wants to do on costs.
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I thought the manuals for Ys and Rondo looked great so I ordered some from the guy! Can't wait to see them!!
Thanks!
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They look pretty cool. I talked to him about trimming them down a little more, just a tad. Other than that, he done a really good job at creating the manuals.
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I thought the manuals for Ys and Rondo looked great so I ordered some from the guy! Can't wait to see them!!
Thanks!
Did you just buy the manuals then? Do ya plan on making your own version of the package for yourself? Just curious. Still deciding what i would like to do.
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refresh my memory, the YS IV manual was already translated and available online. Same for Rondo too? Or did he do that?
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I don't think Rondo's manual was translated. I scanned it for someone (pemdawg maybe?) to translate a few years ago, but it fell through. I think fragmare did the rear insert and maybe the lightscribe artwork? It's been a few years, I've forgotten. :)
The Ys manual has been translated for some time and I think it's available from Sparky. The cover still retains the PC Engine artwork IIRC. I did make a new cover, I think if you dig around in the forums you can find a link to the TG-16-ified version. I also had the rear insert for Ys IV translated and the english text inserted over the original artwork. My buddy faustie and his wife did this and honestly I think it looks great. PM me and I can probably dig up hires versions of this (and the naughty verson!).
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Yes, he had the Dracula X manual translated, and it looks really nice. Also, the Ys IV manual translation braap has, is different than the one that Sparky has, so it's not the exact one that m1savage had translated and shared a few years back.
Sadler, I remember the naughty version of the rear insert!! I think I may have it still....but just in case...link me again. :)
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What kind of naughty "rear insert" are you talking about?
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Boobs exposed on one of the women on the rear insert. :)
EDIT: Here you go, NSFW (http://oi60.tinypic.com/33xzlfk.jpg)
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Boobs exposed on one of the women on the rear insert. :)
EDIT: Here you go, NSFW (http://oi60.tinypic.com/33xzlfk.jpg)
lol that one is way cooler than mine, also the side tabs are in english. :(
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Boobs exposed on one of the women on the rear insert. :)
EDIT: Here you go, NSFW (http://oi60.tinypic.com/33xzlfk.jpg)
lol that one is way cooler than mine, also the side tabs are in english. :(
:D Honestly I'm having a hard time finding the the kid-friendly version now. Anyway, here's small versions of the inner and outer manual cover I did. I have higher resolutions if anyone is curious.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2mexssy.png)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ibntd3.jpg)
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Heh, nice. They're not Babbette nips, but they'll do nicely. :mrgreen:
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Boobs exposed on one of the women on the rear insert. :)
EDIT: Here you go, NSFW (http://oi60.tinypic.com/33xzlfk.jpg)
lol that one is way cooler than mine, also the side tabs are in english. :(
:D Honestly I'm having a hard time finding the the kid-friendly version now. Anyway, here's small versions of the inner and outer manual cover I did. I have higher resolutions if anyone is curious.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2mexssy.png)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ibntd3.jpg)
Awesome! If only I had what it took to print these. What is a printer? Would I get in trouble for bringing a flash containing these pics to a place of print? Hmm... lol
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Boobs exposed on one of the women on the rear insert. :)
EDIT: Here you go, NSFW (http://oi60.tinypic.com/33xzlfk.jpg)
lol that one is way cooler than mine, also the side tabs are in english. :(
:D Honestly I'm having a hard time finding the the kid-friendly version now. Anyway, here's small versions of the inner and outer manual cover I did. I have higher resolutions if anyone is curious.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2mexssy.png)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ibntd3.jpg)
Sadler, I'd be happy to host the files if you find them all.
Actually, I think I should make a page for all of these DIY manuals/inserts.
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Thanks este! Should I just send them to the same email address as last time?
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Thanks este! Should I just send them to the same email address as last time?
Yup
Aliso, I love that "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" is listed in the manual. L'awesome.
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Well, seeing as how that one is completely in English already, I guess it fit right in. :)
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Thanks este! Should I just send them to the same email address as last time?
Yup
Aliso, I love that "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" is listed in the manual. L'awesome.
Cool, sent them your way! :D And yeah, that list of games is also sort of my wish list. I know Carmen Sandiego is mostly english, but man I'd love to see Manjimaru and Snatcher translated!
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Thanks este! Should I just send them to the same email address as last time?
Yup
Aliso, I love that "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" is listed in the manual. L'awesome.
Cool, sent them your way! :D And yeah, that list of games is also sort of my wish list. I know Carmen Sandiego is mostly english, but man I'd love to see Manjimaru and Snatcher translated!
Sadler, I'm not promising anything, but Snatcher translated is in the works. But thats all I can say about it right now.
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Awesome to hear! Please keep us posted! :)
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Sadler, I'm not promising anything, but Snatcher translated is in the works. But thats all I can say about it right now.
Whoa, now thats something thread-worthy there ^^^