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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: bartre on December 14, 2014, 02:13:45 PM
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 14, 2014, 02:13:45 PM
So, Tobias has started with this whole PC engine boxset business. conveniently enough, Google helped me find several places online that can do commercial pressings of CDs, along with many packaging options. I know this has been discussed before (almost endlessly so), but who would be interested in getting some repros pressed? What games?
I'd be willing to take the duty of dealing with whatever company, as well as all the money handling.
here's the guidelines I'm thinking 1. If using some kind of patch (Ys IV dub, for example), we must get permission from the patch creator, and follow whatever terms they wish. 2. I'm not looking to make much money, if at all. These would be essentially cost + shipping + ~$1-2 for my time.
So my ideas for games- Ys IV w/ patch(my big pick) Dracula X w/ patch pretty much any of the crazy high $$$ games (DEII, for example)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: slinkyturd on December 14, 2014, 04:16:58 PM
Finances permitting and if it were cost efficient, I'd be interested.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Nemo on December 14, 2014, 06:39:19 PM
I'd definitely go for stuff like Ys IV and Beyond Shadowgate, something about Drac X just doesn't sit well with me though. Maybe it's because Konami actually still releases games in the US, actually cares about the Castlevania series, and has re-released this game in the US already (PSP).
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Duo_R on December 14, 2014, 07:02:27 PM
Like to see what the translators say, if they are good I am game!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: seieienbu on December 14, 2014, 07:30:13 PM
If you're going to do this, you should make them distinguishable at a glance from the originals.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Black Tiger on December 15, 2014, 01:19:02 AM
Like to see what the translators say, if they are good I am game!
The key member of the Drac X translation and Ys IV dub portion has made it very clear that he is not game and will never do another PC Engine project if you guys do this.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 15, 2014, 01:37:49 AM
Like to see what the translators say, if they are good I am game!
The key member of the Drac X translation and Ys IV dub portion has made it very clear that he is not game and will never do another PC Engine project if you guys do this.
Is that burnt lasagna? or nightwolve? I had not heard that.....
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 15, 2014, 01:47:43 AM
hmm... if that is indeed the case, i might leave the dub alone. the text patch was entirely a separate project though, correct? was that nightwolve?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Necromancer on December 15, 2014, 01:54:31 AM
I'm pro booties for cheaps. One of these days I'll get Motteke Tamago done, then Space Fantasy Zone if someone makes tunes for it, but dealing with a certain pressing house is like getting a root canal - slow and painful.
I recall Nightwolve being okay with booties of his work for non-profit. He even said he'd be willing to help with a separate dub using peeps that aren't anti-booty.
I think the best way to go about it would be to have the high-res print-ready graphic files freely available for download, and accompany it with a list of good print shops for the paper wares and discs.
Discs too? Nobody will do one off pressed discs for cheap (the test discs are $250 and I doubt they'd do them without a full order), and ordering bulk discs doesn't save much money. It's maybe half the cost, but that works out to $1 per copy, which is less than the cost of a jewel case, ink, and glossy paper to do it yourself and a tenth the cost of having it printed at a pro shop.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: KingDrool on December 15, 2014, 03:30:53 AM
It's the translations that are most appealing to me. Or the hard-to-find Japanese stuff. But if we did group-buys for translations, yes, we should get permission from those who did it.
Although, and maybe I'm crazy here, but if we did this for non-profit...what's the objection? I mean, I guess some a-hole could turn around and try to re-sell it for stupid cash on eBay. But, I don't see how a small group of fans wanting a physical copy of the game is any different than making a CDR of it.
I'm just curious to know what the big issue is.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Necromancer on December 15, 2014, 03:48:26 AM
If I recall correctly, BL was worried about pissing off the original IP owners and having his name attached to it, which honestly doesn't make much sense to me. If they even give a shit at all, they're gonna be pissed about the copying itself and not the patch, and the translator peeps don't have to be involved at all with the copying.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 15, 2014, 03:52:15 AM
okay, i sent PMs to nightwolve and burntlasagna; so we'll wait for their word before getting too deep there. with Ys IV, i know that there is already a translated artset out there, does anyone happen to have it or know who made it?
and again, does anyone have experience with any CD pressing companies?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: KingDrool on December 15, 2014, 05:15:54 AM
If another dub was to be made, and Nightwolve and the voice actors gave their blessing, this would be awesome. In fact, re-doing the voice acting probably would be a good idea. haha, nothing against the original actors... i couldn't do better, but, the US dub for Ys IV is closer to Ys III than it is to I & II. Also, I'd still like to see the art / image released free for download so there will be competition in the boot seller marketplace.
Or just subtitle the thing and be done with it.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on December 15, 2014, 05:57:35 AM
okay, i sent PMs to nightwolve and burntlasagna; so we'll wait for their word before getting too deep there.
Hey, got your pm. Not exactly sure what else to say, but I believe I've stated what I feel about pressing discs with the dub on it.
I don't like them.
I get allot of flack for that stance, but I simply don't like hobby projects that I worked on being put out on bootleg discs. I understand people want something "official-esque" to hold onto, however, I believe that's what the Japanese copy should be for.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: BigusSchmuck on December 15, 2014, 06:23:36 AM
If another dub was to be made, and Nightwolve and the voice actors gave their blessing, this would be awesome. In fact, re-doing the voice acting probably would be a good idea. haha, nothing against the original actors... i couldn't do better, but, the US dub for Ys IV is closer to Ys III than it is to I & II. Also, I'd still like to see the art / image released free for download so there will be competition in the boot seller marketplace.
Or just subtitle the thing and be done with it.
I thought due to memory restraints this wasn't possible?
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 15, 2014, 08:17:57 AM
Q: Does anyone here want to see future Japanese-to-English language dubs?
A: I do.
If you do, too, you will listen to Burnt Lasagna when HE PLAINLY STATES HE IS OPPOSED TO REPRODUCTIONS (pressed CDs) for fan projects he is involved in.
Q: Have you ever heard the expression "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"?
Q: Have you ever heard the corollary—"Don't sh¡t on the folks who create awesome stuff"?
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: It is short-sighted to sacrifice future projects because you are TOO DAMN LAZY to LightScribe an Ys IV CD-R and print out a CD tray insert and/or booklet at Kinko's.
okay, i sent PMs to nightwolve and burntlasagna; so we'll wait for their word before getting too deep there.
Hey, got your pm. Not exactly sure what else to say, but I believe I've stated what I feel about pressing discs with the dub on it.
I don't like them.
I get allot of flack for that stance, but I simply don't like hobby projects that I worked on being put out on bootleg discs. I understand people want something "official-esque" to hold onto, however, I believe that's what the Japanese copy should be for.
Thank you for all your hard work.
I respect your wishes.
I hope others will have the same respect.
:)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: jtucci31 on December 15, 2014, 08:25:21 AM
Q: Does anyone here want to see future Japanese-to-English language dubs?
A: I do.
If you do, too, you will listen to Burnt Lasagna when HE PLAINLY STATES HE IS OPPOSED TO REPRODUCTIONS (pressed CDs) for fan projects he is involved in.
Q: Have you ever heard the expression "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"?
Q: Have you ever heard the corollary—"Don't sh¡t on the folks who create awesome stuff"?
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: It is short-sighted to sacrifice future projects because you are TOO DAMN LAZY to LightScribe an Ys IV CD-R and print out a CD tray insert and/or booklet at Kinko's.
Yeah, if these awesome translators can go through the daunting task of making games English-friendly and then releasing their patches for free, the least I can do is create a copy myself. The work to create one's own copy of the game is probably not nearly as hard the main translating of the game.
Solid points. I want to continue to see translation projects in the future. I will comply to whatever is necessary to make this happen. :)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: johnnykonami on December 15, 2014, 09:05:54 AM
I don't care about the translations myself, it's easy enough to patch Ys IV if you wanted to, and there's so little dialogue in Rondo so as not to matter one bit. I would love a $15ish boot of DEII to hold me over until I can maybe get a real one.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: EvilEvoIX on December 15, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
This would be great for the community as a whole. I feel the more people that get into these games the better it is for the longevity and popularity of the system. Maybe a Mult-Disc with many games on one disc or even games that were once Hu-Card only Brought on the CD.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Desh on December 15, 2014, 10:10:41 AM
There's not a Snatcher translation out there is there?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Arjak on December 15, 2014, 10:23:29 AM
I would love for this to happen AS LONG AS no one steps on anyone's toes. If BL doesn't want his dub put into bootleg form, then we should respect his wishes. I am intrigued by the idea of doing a new dub for the purpose, though.
I would also love to see other games get a community pressing/translation. Random thought: Why not try Double Dragon 2? IIRC, most of, if not all of the in-game text is already in English, so mostly, we would just have to create and insert an English dub. (Correct me if my memory is wrong.)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Bernie on December 15, 2014, 11:00:23 AM
Just tell me where to send my monies....
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 15, 2014, 11:13:30 AM
Grab a CDR, some paper and...
PRINT YOUR OWN STUFF
http://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm
(http://tg-16.com/images/Ys_IV_cascade.png)
BONUS: It is fun just to see the "history" of these homemade designs evolve here at pcefx.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: seieienbu on December 15, 2014, 01:36:20 PM
It's funny, the games most talked about here are also the ones that I think are the worst ideas to be used. Dracula X and Snatcher are owned by Konami who still releases games over here. Ys 4 was recently remade on Vita and that came out what, a year ago?
If you're going to straight up try to create semi-authentic CD reproductions I feel that you should only use properties like Beyond Shadowgate, Bonk 3, Dynastic Hero, Lords of Thunder, or other games that will likely never see the light of day over here and don't have a parent company that's still active that would potentially take legal action against people.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: spenoza on December 15, 2014, 02:10:10 PM
Thing is, Hudson is owned by Konami now, so ANY Hudson game is now a Konami game. So that logic knocks out a huge portion of the library.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: slinkyturd on December 15, 2014, 03:37:51 PM
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SamIAm on December 15, 2014, 04:14:37 PM
Dracula X is the one game on the whole system that I think could really attract a cease and desist/lawsuit from the company that owns it. Konami used to aggressively hunt down the ISO not so long ago, especially lossless copies, and Castlevania is one of their most valuable IPs today.
Old Hudson IPs, on the other hand, I don't think would raise too much of a fuss.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: HailingTheThings on December 15, 2014, 04:53:03 PM
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I'm all for more ports, but it's one hell of a lot more work (of which relatively few are capable) than making simple copies of something that already exists.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: KingDrool on December 16, 2014, 02:19:58 AM
Just for the record: I agree with Esteban's post. My query was more out of curiosity. If BL or other translators/developers don't want their work included in something like this, we should totally respect that. I was just curious, that's all.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Black Tiger on December 16, 2014, 05:40:36 AM
Just for the record: I agree with Esteban's post. My query was more out of curiosity. If BL or other translators/developers don't want their work included in something like this, we should totally respect that. I was just curious, that's all.
Why don't we do Xak III, Startling Odyssey 2, etc if the translation teams are cool with it?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Sadler on December 16, 2014, 05:46:01 AM
Because Xak III sucks? :wink:
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: toymachine78 on December 16, 2014, 06:01:21 AM
I like the idea of Shadowgate, DEII, and YsIV.
I don't get the big deal of using a translation patch. I understand its a lot of work to create these projects, but if you are doing it for the community and the love of the system, then once you turn it over to the community you have to let it go. Let the community do what it wants with it. Its community property at that point, much like my cock. As long as others are not profiteering from your gift, I don't see the big deal.
I see this mentality here at work as well. Someone writes an app from scratch, then clings to it like its their child. If someone else comes along and wants to modify it, or incorporate it into a new process, they get all pissy. You can't do that... It wasn't designed to be used like that.... I wrote it....
So what, you created it. Its now a part of the company code library, and we will use it and leverage it as we see fit. Let it go!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: KingDrool on December 16, 2014, 06:19:44 AM
Frankly, I don't get it either and for most of the reasons you've mentioned. But I'm willing to respect his wishes. So, if we do a community pressing of a translation, I'm cool with getting the translator's permission before doing so.
Why don't we do Xak III, Startling Odyssey 2, etc if the translation teams are cool with it?
I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 16, 2014, 01:09:34 PM
So, BL said no. no Ys IV with a dub, simple as that.
still no response from nightwolve though, so what do you all say to putting Ys IV on hold?
I must say, I had completely forgotten about beyond shadowgate, and I'm good to go ahead with that one. does anyone know where some high quality scans are?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Punch on December 16, 2014, 01:40:52 PM
So, BL said no. no Ys IV with a dub, simple as that.
still no response from nightwolve though, so what do you all say to putting Ys IV on hold?
I must say, I had completely forgotten about beyond shadowgate, and I'm good to go ahead with that one. does anyone know where some high quality scans are?
I second Beyond Shawdowgate.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 16, 2014, 04:37:12 PM
I think all of the hentai games should be the first ones tackled. I'll even do the translation. Though I don't know japanese, I'd do a good job.
There's always Lady Sword if you can get Arkhan to produce more custom AbCards :3
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SamIAm on December 17, 2014, 04:14:08 PM
Hi Leg Fantasy apparently isn't half bad.
I'd like to try it, but it apparently deletes other save files. Screw that.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 17, 2014, 05:45:58 PM
I would be interested in contributing. I do not understand Lasagna's reasoning for not wanting the Y's translation pressed for the die-hard turbo fans to enjoy. Emulators are shitty, and not a ideal way to play a game. I would think he would understand that is why people want it done. A shitty CDR pressing from a home PC just isn't the same. I wouldn't see the harm if it was just for the people here to enjoy, and not flip on eBay. But I do respect the guys wishes and am against it if he is.
Is he currently working on a project? Or have a project page? I would like to see what he's working on right now.
As for the other games. Basically any game that commands over $150.00 I would be down for, because that is the point I really decide not to throw down the cash unless a game is damn near perfect. There are a lot of average games that are way too expensive to justify a purchase.
I highly doubt anyone will ever give 2 shits about any of these games, especially if it is just for forum members here and there is not a mass website funneling these making profit off of these. I actually don't know if they could even prosecute if there is no intent to distribute for profit. My girlfriend is a lawyer, I will ask her about this.
No one is going to care about these games, or us, the fans for that matter. If they did care they would find a way to get these re-released. I guess Dynastic Hero is the exception there. But it's getting ridiculous on eBay.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on December 17, 2014, 06:13:30 PM
Sylphia would be sweet, though I'd prefer the hard rock version that Bonknuts n' I set up, though I know Bonknuts is more partial to the original soundtrack. If Sylphia was done with the original music, I definitely think the volume of the music should be adjusted before pressing! IIRC, the sound effects were way to loud in comparison to the music!
Beyond Shadowgate, Dynastic Hero, etc. would be nice to have pressed copies as backup's. Man, with Dynastic Hero, I'd almost be tempted to make my own version of the Wonderboy in Monsterworld soundtrack as a replacement for Dynastic Hero, though I personally love the Dynastic Hero ost....& I have no time for that right now anyways. Motteke Tomago, Fantasy Star Soldier, etc. would be great. If any Hucard games that have been translated could be ported over to cd, that'd be cool, but tons of work!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 17, 2014, 09:57:06 PM
Sylphia would be sweet, though I'd prefer the hard rock version that Bonknuts n' I set up, though I know Bonknuts is more partial to the original soundtrack. If Sylphia was done with the original music, I definitely think the volume of the music should be adjusted before pressing! IIRC, the sound effects were way to loud in comparison to the music!
Beyond Shadowgate, Dynastic Hero, etc. would be nice to have pressed copies as backup's. Man, with Dynastic Hero, I'd almost be tempted to make my own version of the Wonderboy in Monsterworld soundtrack as a replacement for Dynastic Hero, though I personally love the Dynastic Hero ost....& I have no time for that right now anyways. Motteke Tomago, Fantasy Star Soldier, etc. would be great. If any Hucard games that have been translated could be ported over to cd, that'd be cool, but tons of work!
YOU CRAZY. Sylphia's original soundtrack is nice.
You crazy! I would personally sabotage and destroy anyone who changed the music for a pressed cd
;)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Necromancer on December 18, 2014, 02:16:46 AM
Why not both versions? A second disc would add less than $2 per unit.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 18, 2014, 03:56:27 AM
yeah, i'd be down for a remixed soundtrack of most games.
again, I ask anyone who's dealt with it. do we know of any competent/reliable cd printers?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Necromancer on December 18, 2014, 04:06:34 AM
Nationwide (the place that did Mysterious Song, Insanity, and Pyramid Plunder) is capable, but I don't know if I'd go so far as saying they're competent. I don't know how vigilant they are in vetting ownership, but they make you fill out a form saying you own everything being copied; I'm sure all companies do this, but who knows if it's just a formality or if they actually check.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: BlueBMW on December 18, 2014, 04:06:54 AM
I happen to love the Sylphia hard rock remix that you guys put together... I'd love to have a pressed disc of that!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: cjameslv on December 18, 2014, 04:41:36 AM
Why not both versions? A second disc would add less than $2 per unit.
That's a damn good idea!
I really I wish we could get a Far East of Eden 2, translation. It was voted as one of Famitsu's top games of all time. It has to be awesome.
So is this lasagna fella currently working on a project? It seems like since he's so again pressing his translation with threat of never doing another one again, that maybe he is up to something. I would be curious what he's doing now, or has planned for the future.
##Edit
Found his translation project page located conveniently in his signature. Springgan translation = pretty awesome
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: EvilEvoIX on December 18, 2014, 05:37:32 AM
We need a full Mega Man 1-6 Translation as well. This would make me extremely Happy.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on December 18, 2014, 06:33:41 AM
Sylphia would be sweet, though I'd prefer the hard rock version that Bonknuts n' I set up, though I know Bonknuts is more partial to the original soundtrack. If Sylphia was done with the original music, I definitely think the volume of the music should be adjusted before pressing! IIRC, the sound effects were way to loud in comparison to the music!
Beyond Shadowgate, Dynastic Hero, etc. would be nice to have pressed copies as backup's. Man, with Dynastic Hero, I'd almost be tempted to make my own version of the Wonderboy in Monsterworld soundtrack as a replacement for Dynastic Hero, though I personally love the Dynastic Hero ost....& I have no time for that right now anyways. Motteke Tomago, Fantasy Star Soldier, etc. would be great. If any Hucard games that have been translated could be ported over to cd, that'd be cool, but tons of work!
YOU CRAZY. Sylphia's original soundtrack is nice.
You crazy! I would personally sabotage and destroy anyone who changed the music for a pressed cd
;)
Indeed it is nice, but I meant in addition to the original, rather then just the hard rock version. :) And like I said, for the original, I definitely think the volume of the music should be adjusted for a pressing.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: bartre on December 18, 2014, 04:27:19 PM
I'm sure all companies do this, but who knows if it's just a formality or if they actually check.
same; i'm sure some do and some don't. upon looking at my copy of Mysterious Song, I can say that the quality would be fine for me.
does anyone here happen to have a copy of the game that they wouldn't mind scanning for me?
additionally, how should we go about differentiating these 'reprints' from the originals? I was thinking adding a mark on the top of the disc, and packaging in a standard jewel case vs. the double case that the original came in.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on December 19, 2014, 01:59:47 PM
I'm pro booties for cheaps. One of these days I'll get Motteke Tamago done, then Space Fantasy Zone if someone makes tunes for it, but dealing with a certain pressing house is like getting a root canal - slow and painful.
Yeah, for Space Fantasy Zone, I gotta look around again to see if I can find some Fantasy Zone remixes that I can mash up & make them sound of the same basic caliber as the SFZ soundtrack. Seeing how long it's taking me to do Mega Man, SFZ would probably take me a year to do the soundtrack. I have a hard time getting myself to commit to that much time invested in that game. Also, at least 1 song would probably have to be done from scratch. I recall the high score or game over tune being cutoff in the middle of the tune! I'll try to take some time & do more searching on youtube & various Fantasy Zone midi's, etc., & see if I could come up with some kind of mashup.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: slinkyturd on December 19, 2014, 02:12:27 PM
I think it would be fun to create more titles like mega man for obey. I'd kill for an arcade perfect version or the fm towns version of splatterhouse on my duo. Or why not some RPGs off SNES?
I'm all for more ports, but it's one hell of a lot more work (of which relatively few are capable) than making simple copies of something that already exists.
Very true :/ One can dream though...
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Bernie on December 19, 2014, 08:46:47 PM
So, BL said no. no Ys IV with a dub, simple as that.
still no response from nightwolve though, so what do you all say to putting Ys IV on hold?
I must say, I had completely forgotten about beyond shadowgate, and I'm good to go ahead with that one. does anyone know where some high quality scans are?
NIghtWolve has already stated he was fine with using his translations for a pressing here in the community.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: NightWolve on December 20, 2014, 12:48:46 AM
I have a long post coming up in this thread to respond when I get a chance, I've got to lay some things out regarding Ys IV (dub included) and so forth and what I'd like to do in the future, I just haven't had a chance and it will be negative regarding Mr. BurntLasagna...
In short, I never should've worked with him on co-producing the dub, but just cause I did, doesn't mean he's going to get total Barack Obama presidential veto power over the idea, over all the voice actors who would like a pressed CD (as do I) - that is suppression... They have a voice too, so to speak, and if they vote yes, their voice acting can and shall be used. If anybody owns their own voice acting, it's gonna be Arjak, Duo_R, PananoiaDragon, etc. themselves, not BL and they did vote in the past in favor. I believe I can get a majority to vote yes, so that's how it should be done. BL's Dracula X project is all his, he can speak entirely for that, but not in the case of Ys IV. Anyway, I'll go in details when time permits.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 20, 2014, 01:49:29 AM
I have a long post coming up in this thread to respond when I get a chance, I've got to lay some things out regarding Ys IV (dub included) and so forth and what I'd like to do in the future, I just haven't had a chance and it will be negative regarding Mr. BurntLasagna...
In short, I never should've worked with him on co-producing the dub, but just cause I did, doesn't mean he's going to get total Barack Obama presidential veto power over the idea, over all the voice actors who would like a pressed CD (as do I) - that is suppression... They have a voice too, so to speak, and if they vote yes, their voice acting can and shall be used. If anybody owns their own voice acting, it's gonna be Arjak, Duo_R, PananoiaDragon, etc. themselves, not BL and they did vote in the past in favor. I believe I can get a majority to vote yes, so that's how it should be done. BL's Dracula X project is all his, he can speak entirely for that, but not in the case of Ys IV. Anyway, I'll go in details when time permits.
I think this is short-sighted. Let's hold off on Ys IV for now. Why not proceed with projects that have ZERO CONTROVERSY?
We have all been quite capable of waiting. I don't understand why we are unable to enjoy other projects and games. NOBODY *NEEDS* a pressed CD of Ys IV right now.
LOOK HOW GORGEOUS A HOMEMADE YS IV PACKAGE CAN BE.
Also, I do not agree that a mere voice actor has the same "voting power" as Burnt Lasagna, who helped manage and organize the project with you. Burnt Lasagna's wishes *CERTAINLY* have more weight than someone who simply read a few lines into a microphone, sent off the files, and whose responsibilities and obligations were "over" (unless something needed to be re-recorded).
The voice actors have a voice, sure, but you made an agreement with Burnt Lasagna, you AGREED TO WORK TOGETHER, I think you should honor that agreement. If you don't, you basically telling future collaborators: I cannot be trusted.
I love you. :)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: NightWolve on December 20, 2014, 02:35:21 AM
Yeah, that's why I have to point things out about that "collaboration" - he blurred it, and one of those ways was by downgrading me to "technical support" in the ReadMe like I'm a f--king hotline... I am no longer on speaking terms with him; it ended with "motherf--ker" early this year and that's NOT because of this idea, it's because of an old lying post of his here, finding things out over time, and what he did with Psycho John from HG101 in relation to me. If one allows his vote to suppress all votes of the voice actors who want a disc, I will have to assert my vote which carries more than his based on what I did to get the dubbing project to the point where it was left off... Yeah, it's like that...
If he wants total veto power, then he needs to recruit his own translator and redo all the voice acting lines. Next he needs to code his own TurboRip and TocFixer, which he used in the DraculaX project as well. Several of the actors were recruited by my dub manager recruit, Justus, who would also like a CD. He recruited the actor for Dogi, Chris, and others like Arjak, PD, PD's wife, etc. - lines were recorded even from back then. The opening battle dub is also by Justus, so BL should redo that as well and recruit new actors. Next, he should delete my Get and Put ADPCM batch files that extract and insert all voice acting, etc., redo all that with his own work hours or get a capable programmer like Bonknuts...
If he did all that, THEN he can have his precious veto power of suppression. He only ever had it because I didn't assert my co-production stake for this dub. I did him a solid, let him write the ReadMe, didn't force the dubs to go right into a fully finished patch right from the start, and in return I got a bunch of bullshit, and that's why I regret ever working with him. You speak of trust, that's exactly why he lost all of my respect, you see, he never wanted to work with me, in 2010 he was sneaking around my website exploiting everything I had released publicly trying to do it without me, that's all before I met him and released the Ys IV Dub Kit (originally meant to be given internally to Arjak), but I'm getting ahead of what I wanna say about him and this.
Trust, loyalty, respect, those are lacking qualities as I have found with people that I worked with. As I never knew he was a fan credo fanatic and would go buckwild against the idea of a CD before working with him, and as I never thought about a pressed CD, I didn't "betray" anyone by liking the idea when it was brought up and wanting to press it myself down the road. So yes, his no vote counts, but like Bernie told him, he ain't the only one in the project and the major work to make the dub happen began with me and my team, prior to him, thus my vote in fact gets to veto his or I pull out all the work hours and software that went to his benefit... Fanatics need to learn to compromise; he got his separatist dub patch off my back, he gets to keep that, and I reserve open the idea down the road for a pressed CD with voice actors who also want one. Fair tradeoff if you ask me versus giving him total veto power and under his logic having to fully wait out the 75 years for the IP Rights to expire... CD Pressing plants are going out of style with the format, so it's not like the option will be available indefinitely.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Desh on December 20, 2014, 05:47:11 AM
Senior Nightwolf, off topic but, thank you for the programs. TurboRip has come in handy to make mixed CD'S of my favorite CD game tunes to listen to while driving. TOCfixer has come in handy for the shady ISO files I've downloaded to try a game before buying.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: toymachine78 on December 20, 2014, 06:19:40 AM
I have a long post coming up in this thread to respond when I get a chance, I've got to lay some things out regarding Ys IV (dub included) and so forth and what I'd like to do in the future, I just haven't had a chance and it will be negative regarding Mr. BurntLasagna...
In short, I never should've worked with him on co-producing the dub, but just cause I did, doesn't mean he's going to get total Barack Obama presidential veto power over the idea, over all the voice actors who would like a pressed CD (as do I) - that is suppression... They have a voice too, so to speak, and if they vote yes, their voice acting can and shall be used. If anybody owns their own voice acting, it's gonna be Arjak, Duo_R, PananoiaDragon, etc. themselves, not BL and they did vote in the past in favor. I believe I can get a majority to vote yes, so that's how it should be done. BL's Dracula X project is all his, he can speak entirely for that, but not in the case of Ys IV. Anyway, I'll go in details when time permits.
I think this is short-sighted. Let's hold off on Ys IV for now. Why not proceed with projects that have ZERO CONTROVERSY?
We have all been quite capable of waiting. I don't understand why we are unable to enjoy other projects and games. NOBODY *NEEDS* a pressed CD of Ys IV right now.
LOOK HOW GORGEOUS A HOMEMADE YS IV PACKAGE CAN BE.
Also, I do not agree that a mere voice actor has the same "voting power" as Burnt Lasagna, who helped manage and organize the project with you. Burnt Lasagna's wishes *CERTAINLY* have more weight than someone who simply read a few lines into a microphone, sent off the files, and whose responsibilities and obligations were "over" (unless something needed to be re-recorded).
The voice actors have a voice, sure, but you made an agreement with Burnt Lasagna, you AGREED TO WORK TOGETHER, I think you should honor that agreement. If you don't, you basically telling future collaborators: I cannot be trusted.
I love you. :)
No... I NEED a copy right now. Now damn it!!! Right now!!!
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 20, 2014, 09:40:13 AM
Yeah, that's why I have to point things out about that "collaboration" - he blurred it, and one of those ways was by downgrading me to "technical support" in the ReadMe like I'm a f--king hotline... I am no longer on speaking terms with him; it ended with "motherf--ker" early this year and that's NOT because of this idea, it's because of an old lying post of his here, finding things out over time, and what he did with Psycho John from HG101 in relation to me. If one allows his vote to suppress all votes of the voice actors who want a disc, I will have to assert my vote which carries more than his based on what I did to get the dubbing project to the point where it was left off... Yeah, it's like that...
If he wants total veto power, then he needs to recruit his own translator and redo all the voice acting lines. Next he needs to code his own TurboRip and TocFixer, which he used in the DraculaX project as well. Several of the actors were recruited by my dub manager recruit, Justus, who would also like a CD. He recruited the actor for Dogi, Chris, and others like Arjak, PD, PD's wife, etc. - lines were recorded even from back then. The opening battle dub is also by Justus, so BL should redo that as well and recruit new actors. Next, he should delete my Get and Put ADPCM batch files that extract and insert all voice acting, etc., redo all that with his own work hours or get a capable programmer like Bonknuts...
If he did all that, THEN he can have his precious veto power of suppression. He only ever had it because I didn't assert my co-production stake for this dub. I did him a solid, let him write the ReadMe, didn't force the dubs to go right into a fully finished patch right from the start, and in return I got a bunch of bullshit, and that's why I regret ever working with him. You speak of trust, that's exactly why he lost all of my respect, you see, he never wanted to work with me, in 2010 he was sneaking around my website exploiting everything I had released publicly trying to do it without me, that's all before I met him and released the Ys IV Dub Kit (originally meant to be given internally to Arjak), but I'm getting ahead of what I wanna say about him and this.
Trust, loyalty, respect, those are lacking qualities as I have found with people that I worked with. As I never knew he was a fan credo fanatic and would go buckwild against the idea of a CD before working with him, and as I never thought about a pressed CD, I didn't "betray" anyone by liking the idea when it was brought up and wanting to press it myself down the road. So yes, his no vote counts, but like Bernie told him, he ain't the only one in the project and the major work to make the dub happen began with me and my team, prior to him, thus my vote in fact gets to veto his or I pull out all the work hours and software that went to his benefit... Fanatics need to learn to compromise; he got his separatist dub patch off my back, he gets to keep that, and I reserve open the idea down the road for a pressed CD with voice actors who also want one. Fair tradeoff if you ask me versus giving him total veto power and under his logic having to fully wait out the 75 years for the IP Rights to expire... CD Pressing plants are going out of style with the format, so it's not like the option will be available indefinitely.
Hey, I don't know anything about Burnt Lasagna's douchbaggery. :(
If what you shared with us is true, then it certainly changes how I feel about him.
Basically, I assumed that he was sincere/trustworthy and not involved in any shady and/or douchebag business.
ASIDE: What an ugly mess lurks Ys IV and other projects!
BOTTOM LINE: I still don't think we need to rush out and press Ys IV. People can wait, dammit! :)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Arjak on December 20, 2014, 03:57:51 PM
NightWolve, I've sent you an email. :twisted:
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 20, 2014, 05:13:28 PM
This is a huge mess for sure. I guess we just need to respect Lasanga's request, and let you all settle your differences in a fair manner before moving forward. It would be nice if Lasagna would chime in and explain his stance on the situation. Hopefully he doesn't just come in with a one liner and provides some information.
I still however do not see what his deal is with the pressings. First, he is against something he has already done. That is taking someone's product, and doing something with it that is not what the original author would have wanted most likely. I mean, I doubt he got written consent from Falcom. Now I do respect the work Lasagna, and the others put forth in making the translation, but it seems kind of hypocritical to be against using the work he done, in a manner not intended, when he is guilty himself. It also seems completely ignorant that he never saw this coming. I mean it sounds like he is a game collector, and would understand people don't want crappy CDR's with black sharpie text on them.
I am not sure if he is afraid of being tied to the project if they were mass produced, in fear of getting into trouble. But that really seems like a unlikely occurrence that he would ever be sued. We are talking about creating a pressing of a never released in America CD for personal use without intent to distribute. And even if it was distributed he would not be at fault just because he made a translation. Besides, it is no worse then burning your own copy even if you do own the original. It is a myth that if you make a backup of a game you own it is not illegal. It most certainly is. Falcom will never pursue a case against anyone even if they did mass distribute this patch online in a professional pressed form. Look at all the reproduction copies of Square Enix games for Super Nintendo on eBay, and the dozens of sites that are dedicated to selling reproductions. It's been going on for years. If Square Enix isn't going to do anything, neither is Falcom.
In all honesty his concerns seem more like paranoia. We are talking about the equivalent of jay-walking in digital form. I understand his stance on owning the actual game and making a personal copy, but it is still illegal and not any better than pressing one up right. People should buy classic games, but still that stance makes little sense. These companies are still not making any money off of these games, and the bottom line is that they do not care about the American audience, so we take it into our own hands.
What's going to happen in 50 years or so when other generations want to enjoy these games? They will be disc-rotted, and non-functional. This is simply the way these classic games are going because it is inevitable that one day they will no longer work. We are simply the pioneers of an era coming in the next 50-100 years. People will look back and be grateful people like you guys did stuff like this, and make Everdrives, and clone consoles, and design custom reproduction boards for snes games.
If these companies are not going to give us what we want, then we will do it ourselves, and keep these games alive for future generations to enjoy.
OK, I got a bit off topic there. But you all know what I mean.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: grache on December 20, 2014, 08:23:43 PM
I'm in awe of the back and forth mary kate & ashley bullshit that happens on all these projects.
Why doesn't any license their work? Or at a minimum communicate their wishes to each other during production and to the rest of the world at release.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: slinkyturd on December 21, 2014, 12:50:37 AM
I still however do not see what his deal is with the pressings. First, he is against something he has already done. That is taking someone's product, and doing something with it that is not what the original author would have wanted most likely. I mean, I doubt he got written consent from Falcom. Now I do respect the work Lasagna, and the others put forth in making the translation, but it seems kind of hypocritical to be against using the work he done, in a manner not intended, when he is guilty himself. It also seems completely ignorant that he never saw this coming. I mean it sounds like he is a game collector, and would understand people don't want crappy CDR's with black sharpie text on them.
My thoughts exactly!
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 21, 2014, 12:54:00 AM
This is a huge mess for sure. I guess we just need to respect Lasanga's request, and let you all settle your differences in a fair manner before moving forward. It would be nice if Lasagna would chime in and explain his stance on the situation. Hopefully he doesn't just come in with a one liner and provides some information.
I still however do not see what his deal is with the pressings. First, he is against something he has already done. That is taking someone's product, and doing something with it that is not what the original author would have wanted most likely. I mean, I doubt he got written consent from Falcom. Now I do respect the work Lasagna, and the others put forth in making the translation, but it seems kind of hypocritical to be against using the work he done, in a manner not intended, when he is guilty himself. It also seems completely ignorant that he never saw this coming. I mean it sounds like he is a game collector, and would understand people don't want crappy CDR's with black sharpie text on them.
I am not sure if he is afraid of being tied to the project if they were mass produced, in fear of getting into trouble. But that really seems like a unlikely occurrence that he would ever be sued. We are talking about creating a pressing of a never released in America CD for personal use without intent to distribute. And even if it was distributed he would not be at fault just because he made a translation. Besides, it is no worse then burning your own copy even if you do own the original. It is a myth that if you make a backup of a game you own it is not illegal. It most certainly is. Falcom will never pursue a case against anyone even if they did mass distribute this patch online in a professional pressed form. Look at all the reproduction copies of Square Enix games for Super Nintendo on eBay, and the dozens of sites that are dedicated to selling reproductions. It's been going on for years. If Square Enix isn't going to do anything, neither is Falcom.
In all honesty his concerns seem more like paranoia. We are talking about the equivalent of jay-walking in digital form. I understand his stance on owning the actual game and making a personal copy, but it is still illegal and not any better than pressing one up right. People should buy classic games, but still that stance makes little sense. These companies are still not making any money off of these games, and the bottom line is that they do not care about the American audience, so we take it into our own hands.
What's going to happen in 50 years or so when other generations want to enjoy these games? They will be disc-rotted, and non-functional. This is simply the way these classic games are going because it is inevitable that one day they will no longer work. We are simply the pioneers of an era coming in the next 50-100 years. People will look back and be grateful people like you guys did stuff like this, and make Everdrives, and clone consoles, and design custom reproduction boards for snes games.
If these companies are not going to give us what we want, then we will do it ourselves, and keep these games alive for future generations to enjoy.
OK, I got a bit off topic there. But you all know what I mean.
Comrade: if you want to enjoy a fan translation/dub, you can. But you don't need a pressed CD to do so.
And if you *really* can't deal with a "sharpie marker" (oh the great injustice!):
http://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm
(http://www.tg-16.com/images/Ys_IV_cascade.png)
Personally, I am grateful for any translation/dub that simply *exists*...using a sharpie on a CD-R hardly seems the "great injustice" in comparison.
If you *insist* that you *must* have a pressed CD, then you are missing the entire spirit of the project
I still love you :)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Duo_R on December 21, 2014, 03:02:34 AM
I want to respect the wishes of BL.
Honestly, let's pick another release for a game. Maybe another thread should be started with a poll for the top most expensive Turbo or PCE games that we would like to see pressed?
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 21, 2014, 03:19:12 AM
Honestly, let's pick another release for a game. Maybe another thread should be started with a poll for the top most expensive Turbo or PCE games that we would like to see pressed?
I know, right?!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: slinkyturd on December 21, 2014, 03:51:38 AM
My vote is for local girls of hawaii...the nudie ones. lol
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 21, 2014, 04:19:56 AM
This is a huge mess for sure. I guess we just need to respect Lasanga's request, and let you all settle your differences in a fair manner before moving forward. It would be nice if Lasagna would chime in and explain his stance on the situation. Hopefully he doesn't just come in with a one liner and provides some information.
I still however do not see what his deal is with the pressings. First, he is against something he has already done. That is taking someone's product, and doing something with it that is not what the original author would have wanted most likely. I mean, I doubt he got written consent from Falcom. Now I do respect the work Lasagna, and the others put forth in making the translation, but it seems kind of hypocritical to be against using the work he done, in a manner not intended, when he is guilty himself. It also seems completely ignorant that he never saw this coming. I mean it sounds like he is a game collector, and would understand people don't want crappy CDR's with black sharpie text on them.
I am not sure if he is afraid of being tied to the project if they were mass produced, in fear of getting into trouble. But that really seems like a unlikely occurrence that he would ever be sued. We are talking about creating a pressing of a never released in America CD for personal use without intent to distribute. And even if it was distributed he would not be at fault just because he made a translation. Besides, it is no worse then burning your own copy even if you do own the original. It is a myth that if you make a backup of a game you own it is not illegal. It most certainly is. Falcom will never pursue a case against anyone even if they did mass distribute this patch online in a professional pressed form. Look at all the reproduction copies of Square Enix games for Super Nintendo on eBay, and the dozens of sites that are dedicated to selling reproductions. It's been going on for years. If Square Enix isn't going to do anything, neither is Falcom.
In all honesty his concerns seem more like paranoia. We are talking about the equivalent of jay-walking in digital form. I understand his stance on owning the actual game and making a personal copy, but it is still illegal and not any better than pressing one up right. People should buy classic games, but still that stance makes little sense. These companies are still not making any money off of these games, and the bottom line is that they do not care about the American audience, so we take it into our own hands.
What's going to happen in 50 years or so when other generations want to enjoy these games? They will be disc-rotted, and non-functional. This is simply the way these classic games are going because it is inevitable that one day they will no longer work. We are simply the pioneers of an era coming in the next 50-100 years. People will look back and be grateful people like you guys did stuff like this, and make Everdrives, and clone consoles, and design custom reproduction boards for snes games.
If these companies are not going to give us what we want, then we will do it ourselves, and keep these games alive for future generations to enjoy.
OK, I got a bit off topic there. But you all know what I mean.
Comrade: if you want to enjoy a fan translation/dub, you can. But you don't need a pressed CD to do so.
And if you *really* can't deal with a "sharpie marker" (oh the great injustice!):
http://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm
(http://www.tg-16.com/images/Ys_IV_cascade.png)
Personally, I am grateful for any translation/dub that simply *exists*...using a sharpie on a CD-R hardly seems the "great injustice" in comparison.
If you *insist* that you *must* have a pressed CD, then you are missing the entire spirit of the project
I still love you :)
I don't care either way. I merely stating why people want professional looking copies. It would be cool to have one, but if it never happens I wouldn't mind.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SephirothTNH on December 21, 2014, 04:39:03 AM
Just want to say I would love to see some community driven pressed CDs. Especially of Ys IV. Since Nightwolve already gave his consent at the very least the non dubbed translated version would be fair game.
Not to sound rude or ungrateful but what exactly did Burnt lasagna do for the project? If all he did was coordinate with the voice actors and use Nightwolve's tools to extract/re insert adpcm samples then I would say Nightwolve has the lions share of the voting power on this subject.
Most repros on other consoles get produced without any consent from the hackers, and translators that made the game possible. I think it speaks volumes to the integrity of the members here that this being considered.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 21, 2014, 04:59:21 AM
Just want to say I would love to see some community driven pressed CDs. Especially of Ys IV. Since Nightwolve already gave his consent at the very least the non dubbed translated version would be fair game.
Not to sound rude or ungrateful but what exactly did Burnt lasagna do for the project? If all he did was coordinate with the voice actors and use Nightwolve's tools to extract/re insert adpcm samples then I would say Nightwolve has the lions share of the voting power on this subject.
Most repros on other consoles get produced without any consent from the hackers, and translators that made the game possible. I think it speaks volumes to the integrity of the members here that this being considered.
OMG! SRSLY!
You're totally correct.
P.S. I have pressed CD of Atlantean to sell you.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SephirothTNH on December 21, 2014, 05:28:13 AM
No thanks I would rather buy a legit copy from aetherbyte on hucard.
Seriously though I was just wondering how much of the work is really burnt lasangna's. If it is indeed how I suspect it then it should be a simple matter to do a fresh dub patch without him. The original voice actors can re submit their samples if they want to be a part of a community pressing; those that don't can be re recorded. Someone else can handle editing the audio and reinserting it. Well maybe it wont be simple but certainly doable and avoids going against Lasagna's wishes regarding his part of the dub.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: spenoza on December 21, 2014, 05:56:32 AM
Honestly, if we're talking about whether something should be pressed or not, I think a "No" answer should always carry more weight than a "Yes" answer. If even one person on a team thinks "No, this is inappropriate," then it shouldn't happen. Period. Every member of that team should have veto power. Something should only happen if everyone is on board, unless there is some kind of contract stating who specifically has decision-making power.
We know that translation work is relatively safe territory, but when you move up to a formal, pressed release, that exposes all parties involved to greater risk, and any individual should have the right to shut that down and opt out of being exposed to that greater risk.
I realize it makes things a lot more difficult to accomplish that way, but I think safe is better than sorry.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 21, 2014, 06:03:21 AM
Honestly, if we're talking about whether something should be pressed or not, I think a "No" answer should always carry more weight than a "Yes" answer. If even one person on a team thinks "No, this is inappropriate," then it shouldn't happen. Period. Every member of that team should have veto power. Something should only happen if everyone is on board, unless there is some kind of contract stating who specifically has decision-making power.
We know that translation work is relatively safe territory, but when you move up to a formal, pressed release, that exposes all parties involved to greater risk, and any individual should have the right to shut that down and opt out of being exposed to that greater risk.
I realize it makes things a lot more difficult to accomplish that way, but I think safe is better than sorry.
Making a translation is not illegal. Just frowned upon by game dev companies. There is zero percent chance of persecution in any way, shape, or form, unless you are the one selling the Cdr's for profit. That is why there is confusion. Because it makes no sense why one would be paranoid regarding the issue. I could manufacture thousand of copies and start selling them tomorrow through a website. Do you think Falcom would file a case against me or lasagna? They would not care what they did, because I would be the one making profit.
If lasagna is scared to be on a pressed copy, then his concerns are mute, because the distributor would be at fault. But again, these are for non-profit. Not much that could be done.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Dicer on December 21, 2014, 06:48:56 AM
TBH it's not some mega corp trying to do this, it's a bunch of passionate people trying to carry on the legacy of what they enjoy. No one is trying to do this for profit, but for the enjoyment of the hobby, and if the voices of the many are in agreement, then I think it should happen. No one is talking about mass producing these and making them widely available.
People do dubs/translations because I would assume, they want people to enjoy something they otherwise could not, so stifling this in any way shape or form, it just seems counter productive to the whole reason for doing it in the first place.
Just my .02 on the matter...
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: wolfman on December 21, 2014, 10:41:23 AM
Do a combined run of a C.O.M.P.L.E.T.E.
Beyond Shadowgate Might & Magic 3 Bonk 3
and I am sure not only me but half of our community will be more than grateful for your time and energy involved in this.
Count me in on this as well.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: HailingTheThings on December 21, 2014, 11:33:58 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/V9wC5gT.png)
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 21, 2014, 12:49:37 PM
and I am sure not only me but half of our community will be more than grateful for your time and energy involved in this.
Count me in on this as well.
And Dynastic Hero. We could do them in groups of 3 or 4. We could do a rpg lot, then a shmup lot, etc.. I for one would be grateful, and would he more than willing to donate some cash for time spent getting things in order.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Duo_R on December 21, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
The Latest Turbo Duo Memories collection has Dynastic Hero, Dungeon Exp II, Bonk 3 and Godzilla. Maybe something else? Those collections may seem pricey but they are really nice.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 21, 2014, 02:04:34 PM
The Latest Turbo Duo Memories collection has Dynastic Hero, Dungeon Exp II, Bonk 3 and Godzilla. Maybe something else? Those collections may seem pricey but they are really nice.
Yeah the thing is they are far too expensive to justify purchasing, especially when factoring in I am forced to buy godzilla, which I don't want, and dungeon Explorer 2, which I already own. Plus they seem to sell out fast.
I think the appeal of a project like this, is that people are tired of being dicked over by some guy banking 500% profit.
I do appreciate you looking out though, I just don't think that set is for me. I only collect games I feel are worth owning, and don't want to feel like I am being forced to buy, and shelve games I will never play.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Bonknuts on December 21, 2014, 02:21:48 PM
I thought this was a Sonic and Friends free-zone? It's bad enough that stuff drifts over to sega-16, but here? -smh :P
tl;dr (nothing important)
greedostick: Actually, it is illegal. You are not allowed to translate someone else's copyrighted work and redistribute it in another language (patch or no patch). The ONLY reason why the hacking and translation community hasn't come under fire, is because this is done for non-profit AND the target audience is small enough. That hasn't stopped some companies from producing a C&D though, once a hack got waaaay to much attention (ChronoTrigger comes to mind).
I do agree that everyone involved in a project gets veto power for their own work - period. SamIam and I are working on the translation of Spriggan, so I would definitely like it if permission was asked of both of us. I can't speak on behalf of Sam, and he can't for me.
No one said stated that any of these hacks were made with the idea that they were to be pressed on CDs. It's not the hackers or translators problem, if you don't like CD-Rs or PC emulators (or the up and comming SDcard CD emulator for PCE that the GDEMU guy is working on).
About the YsIV dub thing: just redub the damn thing. It's not that hard and anyone has the right to do it (there's no claim that you can't rehack or redub something just because someone else did it first). That would solve both issues for BL and NW.
To the new comers here, you're not entitled to something just because someone else released it for public use. It doesn't make it public property. You need to learn some damn respect: you can't always get what you want (I want a pressed copy of YsIV as much as any of you, even before this dub was made). Trying to justify it 3 ways around be stating they didn't have permission for this and that, doesn't negate anything. I swear some people have little to no scruples. But go ahead and do it, and see what happens to the community that wants to actually continue this type of work.
I'm in no way against community pressings, but getting permission is the right thing to do. I feel like a broken record...
As for Dracula X, there are like 5-6 people that worked on that (myself included). BL isn't the only one, but he made clear that he doesn't want this part used in a pressing. If you want to make your own version, you can use my tools (or rather, code) - I don't care what you do with it. But I didn't do everything in the game, and there are artists (like Fragmare) that did work too. You'd have to replace that as well. You got your work cut out for you; let's see what you're made of.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 21, 2014, 02:37:57 PM
You sure about that? I just asked my girlfriend (a lawyer), and although she States it's not her expertise, a English patch she said sounds like reverse engineering, and something about fair copyright act.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Duo_R on December 21, 2014, 02:46:24 PM
I hear ya man! Just heads up he might also sell these individually.
The Latest Turbo Duo Memories collection has Dynastic Hero, Dungeon Exp II, Bonk 3 and Godzilla. Maybe something else? Those collections may seem pricey but they are really nice.
Yeah the thing is they are far too expensive to justify purchasing, especially when factoring in I am forced to buy godzilla, which I don't want, and dungeon Explorer 2, which I already own. Plus they seem to sell out fast.
I think the appeal of a project like this, is that people are tired of being dicked over by some guy banking 500% profit.
I do appreciate you looking out though, I just don't think that set is for me. I only collect games I feel are worth owning, and don't want to feel like I am being forced to buy, and shelve games I will never play.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: vestcoat on December 21, 2014, 03:16:56 PM
+1 to everything Bonknuts said. All of you people who've only been here for a few years need to listen up because this topic has been discussed before and it's not going to work. There should be a sticky or something.
Unlike most naysayers, I'm all against non-profit repressing. That said, don't come around here trying to get a "community blessing" or something. Quietly sound out your supporters and do it off-forum like Fudoh or whatever did or just scrape up a few hundred dollars and do it yourself. It's not that hard.
Public discussion is a bad idea. Consider: 1) talking about ROMs and ISOs is a ban-able offense, you idiots. For better or worse this forum isn't public space. Aaron owns it and pays the fees. So... if talking about ISO's is against the rules, then you can bet your ass he doesn't want you pirating and selling physical discs via the forum. (Yeah, I know swearing is discouraged too. Sue me).
2) PCEFX has official industry connections. In 2007, PCEFX was Hudson's OFFICIAL home of TurboGrafx news for the VirtualConsole. These forums are something of an institution that has attracted official attention in the past and Aaron may want to make such agreements again in the future. Don't shit in the pool. Move all pirating talk over to the chatbox on that other site or something.
3) the internet is filled with petty, bean-counting tattletales that will rat you out. Strangely, they don't bat an eyelash if someone starts selling nice repros like the overpriced PCE boxset, but if anyone dares open up a discussion about a business venture, then there's hell to pay. Several years ago a guy posted here that he bought the TG16 Marble Madness prototype and might consider sharing it. There was some interest, but then the Forgotten-IP-Corporation-Protection Trolls showed up and ran the guy out of town because they just could live with the thought of someone paying money for an unlicensed ROM. Also remember the independent release of Faceball on the Virtualboy was shitcanned because of forum pussies threatening to alert the IP holder.
4) while I'm not concerned with a tiny, non-profit release of an extinct corporation's thirty-year-old IP, we have to respect the handful of our peers who take the time out of their days to bring us new ports and translations for free. If the Ys IV team doesn't want their shit being pressed, that's the end of the argument. Suck it up and play a burned disc on a hacked Xbox or something. I can't believe people are still whining about this.
Making a translation is not illegal. Just frowned upon by game dev companies. There is zero percent chance of persecution in any way, shape, or form, unless you are the one selling the Cdr's for profit.
It's totally illegal, but I'm so sick of arguing copyright law with idiots on the internet that I'm not even going to start.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Duo_R on December 21, 2014, 03:24:21 PM
Let's move the convo to that other PCE site then, good call!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 21, 2014, 03:32:43 PM
+1 to everything Bonknuts said. All of you people who've only been here for a few years need to listen up because this topic has been discussed before and it's not going to work. There should be a sticky or something.
Unlike most naysayers, I'm all against non-profit repressing. That said, don't come around here trying to get a "community blessing" or something. Quietly sound out your supporters and do it off-forum like Fudoh or whatever did or just scrape up a few hundred dollars and do it yourself. It's not that hard.
Public discussion is a bad idea. Consider: 1) talking about ROMs and ISOs is a ban-able offense, you idiots. For better or worse this forum isn't public space. Aaron owns it and pays the fees. So... if talking about ISO's is against the rules, then you can bet your ass he doesn't want you pirating and selling physical discs via the forum. (Yeah, I know swearing is discouraged too. Sue me).
2) PCEFX has official industry connections. In 2007, PCEFX was Hudson's OFFICIAL home of TurboGrafx news for the VirtualConsole. These forums are something of an institution that has attracted official attention in the past and Aaron may want to make such agreements again in the future. Don't shit in the pool. Move all pirating talk over to the chatbox on that other site or something.
3) the internet is filled with petty, bean-counting tattletales that will rat you out. Strangely, they don't bat an eyelash if someone starts selling nice repros like the overpriced PCE boxset, but if anyone dares open up a discussion about a business venture, then there's hell to pay. Several years ago a guy posted here that he bought the TG16 Marble Madness prototype and might consider sharing it. There was some interest, but then the Forgotten-IP-Corporation-Protection Trolls showed up and ran the guy out of town because they just could live with the thought of someone paying money for an unlicensed ROM. Also remember the independent release of Faceball on the Virtualboy was shitcanned because of forum pussies threatening to alert the IP holder.
4) while I'm not concerned with a tiny, non-profit release of an extinct corporation's thirty-year-old IP, we have to respect the handful of our peers who take the time out of their days to bring us new ports and translations for free. If the Ys IV team doesn't want their shit being pressed, that's the end of the argument. Suck it up and play a burned disc on a hacked Xbox or something. I can't believe people are still whining about this.
Making a translation is not illegal. Just frowned upon by game dev companies. There is zero percent chance of persecution in any way, shape, or form, unless you are the one selling the Cdr's for profit.
It's totally illegal, but I'm so sick of arguing copyright law with idiots on the internet that I'm not even going to start.
Please, show me a statute that states making a English patch for a video game is illegal. It's not the same as translating a novel. A patch is not a copy of the actual game, like a book would be. I would love to see proof. Like I said before I am not 100% certain of the real law, but from my advice from a real lawyer, is that it is probably not. There's a huge difference between ys iv, and some patch someone is creating for a game just released last month in Japan. Those C&D's are issued because a English translation is on the way
Also for the record, I said I don't care either way what happens. I may not be a lawyer but I am far from an idiot. I have 5.5 years college under my belt. I've taken differential equations, thermodynamics, and and many other high level math/physics/ health care courses. So take your attitude and stick it up your rear end. This is a discussion, no reason to get all pissy. So just calm down.
Thanks.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Gentlegamer on December 21, 2014, 04:20:03 PM
There's no such thing as "intellectual property," it's a legal fiction.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 22, 2014, 04:12:23 AM
Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.
Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.
That's a good idea. But I think lots of people would mess up their burns. But still, I would be for that. But I imagine people here will freak that it says ys. It's going to happen one way or another, it's a matter of when some random guy takes it into his own hands and starts selling them on eBay without anyone's consent.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Nemo on December 22, 2014, 04:59:21 AM
Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.
Someone is already ahead of the curve using the scans that Steve linked to:
I'd laugh, but the only thing worth laughing about is anyone who thinks they can control the internet. There are companies that copyright music, movies, etc. and can't stop people from pirating and profiting from it, but some random guys who didn't copyright their work, illegally altered it in the first place, and distributed for free on the interent, are going to stop people from profiting from it. How silly are we?? Like someone else mentioned, the fact it's even being brought up, discussed, and looked at it in a respectable way is a testament that there is at least some honor amongst this community.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: greedostick on December 22, 2014, 05:11:22 AM
I'm going to email that douche-tard right now.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Black Tiger on December 22, 2014, 05:29:50 AM
That blank cdr seller is old news. His discs are hideous and the crappy photos are misleading. The labels use a scanned image of the original disc, reflection and all.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: DarkKobold on December 22, 2014, 07:24:46 AM
Now, translation patches are untested in US courts, and they typically don't pose a threat to foreign game companies (barring release of an HD version of a game in the US or a new, translated edition of an older game). I think it would be very rare indeed that a company would care about a translation patch. That's why there are so many out there. Just because something is technically illegal doesn't mean there's actually any legal risk. Look how many people jaywalk every day in most cities.
Granted, the only result I can find is about Squeenix. That said, Final Fantasy is a multimillion dollar franchise, so they have to protect it.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Dicer on December 22, 2014, 08:03:07 AM
Has anyone ever considered contacting the IP holders and see what they say, I know Konami would be a no go most likely, but in the case of Ys, it really can't hurt.
Just a thought...
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Necromancer on December 22, 2014, 08:13:51 AM
Has anyone ever considered contacting the IP holders and see what they say, I know Konami would be a no go most likely, but in the case of Ys, it really can't hurt.
Just a thought...
Ys IV was a Hudson developed game, so getting Falcom's permission would be meaningless.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Dicer on December 22, 2014, 08:54:47 AM
Has anyone ever considered contacting the IP holders and see what they say, I know Konami would be a no go most likely, but in the case of Ys, it really can't hurt.
Just a thought...
Ys IV was a Hudson developed game, so getting Falcom's permission would be meaningless.
Well, shit...
lol
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: KingDrool on December 22, 2014, 09:40:58 AM
Well, considering Falcom regularly releases new - and sometimes translated - versions of their old games (See Ys 3 and the countless versions of Ys 1&2), I don't think they'd be quick to approve anything like this.
I say take Ys IV off the table completely since it's obviously a pretty controversial topic. There are many other good candidates in this thread.
EDIT: And what Necro said.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Bonknuts on December 22, 2014, 11:34:10 AM
If this were an SNES forum there would already be overpriced repros for sale without getting anyone's consent.
On Nintendo Age, probably.
Bingo.
I asked a person, who I've known on forums over the years, why he was selling a repro of his SMW hack (he was even advertizing about it on other forums - taking pre-orders). His answer, because someone else threatened to do it if he didn't.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SephirothTNH on December 22, 2014, 12:03:34 PM
Wow that is pretty low. I've never been a member there but every time I've had the misfortune of landing there after a google search I've left with a bad taste in my mouth.
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on December 22, 2014, 11:32:34 PM
I thought this was a Sonic and Friends free-zone? It's bad enough that stuff drifts over to sega-16, but here? -smh :P
tl;dr (nothing important)
greedostick: Actually, it is illegal. You are not allowed to translate someone else's copyrighted work and redistribute it in another language (patch or no patch). The ONLY reason why the hacking and translation community hasn't come under fire, is because this is done for non-profit AND the target audience is small enough. That hasn't stopped some companies from producing a C&D though, once a hack got waaaay to much attention (ChronoTrigger comes to mind).
I do agree that everyone involved in a project gets veto power for their own work - period. SamIam and I are working on the translation of Spriggan, so I would definitely like it if permission was asked of both of us. I can't speak on behalf of Sam, and he can't for me.
No one said stated that any of these hacks were made with the idea that they were to be pressed on CDs. It's not the hackers or translators problem, if you don't like CD-Rs or PC emulators (or the up and comming SDcard CD emulator for PCE that the GDEMU guy is working on).
About the YsIV dub thing: just redub the damn thing. It's not that hard and anyone has the right to do it (there's no claim that you can't rehack or redub something just because someone else did it first). That would solve both issues for BL and NW.
To the new comers here, you're not entitled to something just because someone else released it for public use. It doesn't make it public property. You need to learn some damn respect: you can't always get what you want (I want a pressed copy of YsIV as much as any of you, even before this dub was made). Trying to justify it 3 ways around be stating they didn't have permission for this and that, doesn't negate anything. I swear some people have little to no scruples. But go ahead and do it, and see what happens to the community that wants to actually continue this type of work.
I'm in no way against community pressings, but getting permission is the right thing to do. I feel like a broken record...
As for Dracula X, there are like 5-6 people that worked on that (myself included). BL isn't the only one, but he made clear that he doesn't want this part used in a pressing. If you want to make your own version, you can use my tools (or rather, code) - I don't care what you do with it. But I didn't do everything in the game, and there are artists (like Fragmare) that did work too. You'd have to replace that as well. You got your work cut out for you; let's see what you're made of.
Thank you.
I honestly believe that some folks here have not actually been reading posts in their entirety. Or, if they have, they have poor comprehension skills.
Otherwise, sadly, they really are as selfish and as short-sighted as they present themselves.
It is mind-boggling.
What part of, "Do you want to see more fan hacks/translations/dubs in the future?" is too difficult to understand?
It is a simple matter of respect/civility for each other and towards the folks who create the hacks/translations/dubs.
It is a sad day.
UPDATE: Ok, so I am late to the party.
+1 to everything vestcoat said.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: EvilEvoIX on December 23, 2014, 12:23:30 AM
It's a shame that this is so complicated and convoluted but that is just the way with IP's. Maybe there is a way to just purchase the Pressed disc and not actually sell the IP but give it away like in "Dallas Buyers Club" where here gives away the AIDS medication but you pay a member ship? Some sort of a loop hole IDK.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Opethian on December 23, 2014, 01:30:58 AM
It's a shame that this is so complicated and convoluted but that is just the way with IP's. Maybe there is a way to just purchase the Pressed disc and not actually sell the IP but give it away like in "Dallas Buyers Club" where here gives away the AIDS medication but you pay a member ship? Some sort of a loop hole IDK.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Gentlegamer on December 23, 2014, 02:45:48 AM
It's a shame that this is so complicated and convoluted but that is just the way with IP's. Maybe there is a way to just purchase the Pressed disc and not actually sell the IP but give it away like in "Dallas Buyers Club" where here gives away the AIDS medication but you pay a member ship? Some sort of a loop hole IDK.
The copyright holder still owns the distribution rights, so even free give a way is technically a violation.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Daria on January 18, 2015, 11:57:27 AM
here's the guidelines I'm thinking 1. If using some kind of patch (Ys IV dub, for example), we must get permission from the patch creator, and follow whatever terms they wish.
I didn't read the whole 9 page thread... but I just wanted to say that this is already my favorite retro gaming forum. For this sentence alone: thank you.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on January 18, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
DoxPhileLite.com
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: HailingTheThings on January 18, 2015, 01:57:13 PM
You're a "DoxPhileLite.com" By that I mean, gosh darn it all, you're handsome! Can you please make a new TurboDoodle episode? Preferably one in which you're wearing those cute army pants as previously featured in the Alien Crush video? I am most certainly 100% straight, I promise.
:3
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on January 19, 2015, 06:03:40 AM
You're a "DoxPhileLite.com" By that I mean, gosh darn it all, you're handsome! Can you please make a new TurboDoodle episode? Preferably one in which you're wearing those cute army pants as previously featured in the Alien Crush video? I am most certainly 100% straight, I promise.
:3
Of course I still have those pajamas. Camouflage LeUglie @OldNavy
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: HailingTheThings on January 19, 2015, 02:45:48 PM
You're a "DoxPhileLite.com" By that I mean, gosh darn it all, you're handsome! Can you please make a new TurboDoodle episode? Preferably one in which you're wearing those cute army pants as previously featured in the Alien Crush video? I am most certainly 100% straight, I promise.
:3
Of course I still have those pajamas. Camouflage LeUglie @OldNavy
Yesssss!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Greg2600 on February 02, 2015, 08:32:08 AM
There'd be a LONG, long list of those who would gladly pay for a translated Dracula X CD pressed, including ME!!!!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Punch on February 02, 2015, 08:49:04 AM
Nullity, make us a site called kickstartophile.com to make this model of community funded CD pressings a reality. Do something good for once.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 03, 2015, 03:31:56 AM
My stance on this whole bootlegging others ip for profit is this. People from the community doing it openly would be a permanent stain on this forum. If you're going to do it, do it at cost, not profit, sell only to forum members, and keep it low key and on need to know. As far as I am concerned otherwise it is the IP holders job to protect their own IP. If they want to protect it, they need to be proactive about it.
Most don't try to unless profits are being made, and half these old companies don't even exist anymore due to mergers or closing shop and selling assets, so the IP ends up in the hands of companies that could care less for the stuff outside of squeezing some profits from the Nintendo Virtual console.....
Outside of all the other mess involved with this, the only thing that irks me in a major way is people are still buying shit from that lying scamming cunt stain Tobias/Fudoh, after his spending years lying about his source of the Sapphires being old stock from Japan, and insisting his Sapphires were probably legit because of some fake letter from Hudson he concocted and presented to the forum. He took advantage of people's trust, of this community giving him the benefit of doubt.
The guy doesn't deserve one f*cking penny from anyone, he makes hundred percent profit off of others hard work, but he does pretty bootleg boxsets and people toss hundreds his way like all is good. If you guys are going to do this kind of shit, at least keep it low priced and in the community and stop bastards like this from exploiting the Turbo scene even more then it already is.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Sarumaru on February 03, 2015, 12:39:55 PM
I think the only way to really approach this is by starting new projects from the ground up with the intention of making repros. However, a couple things should be kept in mind such as;
1. Active copyrights. Obviously translating and making repros of Dracula X might pose an issue since Konami has already released this game twice on two different formats.
2. Repro projects should probably consist of old IP's who's copyrights are no longer active or come from a now defunct developer like Masaya (who was bought by xtreme and they probably don't give a sh!t).
So it may be best to put together a team with the mere purpose of "localizing" these old games. I'd be game and can help out with a number of things, we have many other talented folks on the forum as well who could help and whatever comes out of this should stay within the forum and its members.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 03, 2015, 02:06:47 PM
Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?
Does this make sense to anyone?
If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.
As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Sarumaru on February 03, 2015, 02:13:56 PM
Good, let's get started then. We're gonna dub High-leg Fantasy together. Just me and you nully, we GOT dis. I've been practicing my Japanese-girl moans for just such an occasion. U READY??
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 03, 2015, 02:14:47 PM
Honestly, that's a much better idea than a Castlevania game everyone already has.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Sarumaru on February 03, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
Or maybe, start with a project that's small and will take less time to make like a platformer and do a test run? Maybe something like Shubibinman 3? Would require mostly voice dubbing and like little to no text at all. We press it, see how it goes. I'd help fund this as well as create any manual/case designs for the project.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Greg2600 on February 03, 2015, 04:15:29 PM
If it costs say $30 a pop to press the CD and make the inserts/manual, plus shipping, and the person doing this charges say a $10 fee for their time spent, what's the harm in that? As long as they aren't versions which were released at retail.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Sarumaru on February 03, 2015, 05:35:58 PM
This is true, people want things at cost but time is money too.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 03, 2015, 05:36:05 PM
If it costs say $30 a pop to press the CD and make the inserts/manual, plus shipping, and the person doing this charges say a $10 fee for their time spent, what's the harm in that? As long as they aren't versions which were released at retail.
Did you create the game yourself? Is it your IP? Are you going to reimburse the creators of said work if it is not yours, per a legal agreement worked out between you and the original owners of said IP? If your answer is no to all the above, then you already know what the harm in it is. As stated prior, don't publicly involve this forum in that activity. If you plan to do this kind of crap, keep it to yourself and behind the scenes. This forum does not need to be attached to open bootlegging, especially for profit, no matter how low those profits may be.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 03, 2015, 09:12:14 PM
Never mind that, who the f*ck is charging $30 to press a CD? Is it filled with human blood?
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SephirothTNH on February 04, 2015, 12:52:29 AM
Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator)..... Does this make sense to anyone?
Isn't it obvious? If you spit in the face of the few guys that are actively doing translations, don't be surprised if they walk away and you never get another one.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Black Tiger on February 04, 2015, 04:01:39 AM
Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator)..... Does this make sense to anyone?
Isn't it obvious? If you spit in the face of the few guys that are actively doing translations, don't be surprised if they walk away and you never get another one.
This is a specific case of one person who has already been a key member of two completed translation projects, who has actually stated that if his projects get pressed he's done with the PCE scene.
Bootlegging commercial publishers' PCE games from decades ago isn't going to make them stop producing new PCE games, because they aren't making any more anyway. Pressing projects involving the work of someone against it will effectively cancel any future projects they would have done.
People blindly jumping into threads like this and boldly making blind claims has likely already done enough damage to discourage at least Burnt Lasagna from starting any new PCE translation projects.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: tbone3969 on February 04, 2015, 05:23:31 AM
Sign me up for 2 orders if this project ever comes to fruition. This sounds awesome!!!
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 04, 2015, 08:06:49 AM
And there's another one.
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on February 04, 2015, 08:08:27 AM
Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?
Does this make sense to anyone?
If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.
As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".
The debate was never about the original/current IP owners.
The "debate" was how THE FOLKS WHO CREATE THE TRANSLATIONS/patches/dubs specifically requested only personal copies be created. NO PROFITEERS SELLING BOOTLEGS.
Why does this matter? Because the folks who actually code/hack will DROP PROJECTS (tobias selling bootleg PCE MegaMan caused Bonknut's to lose enthusiasm the project...Burnt Lasagna, before and after Dracula X dub, requested folks make *personal* copies).
It's honestly the simplest request a person can make.
It's about supporting the folks who (1) spend time/money/energy (2) hacking/translating/recording/managing/creating/etc.
--> fan projects.
It is short-sighted and selfish (and just plain douchebaggery) to cause needless problems in our little PCE scene.
In an effort to make it easy....just print your own stuff/burn your own stuff...
http://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm
:)
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 04, 2015, 11:12:51 AM
There are really at least three different mechanisms at play here:
1) conventional IP respect 2) respect for the fan translators 3) basic fairness and decency.
As elsewhere in life, I prefer the third one, but most people seem to need a law or a rule or a personal interaction to help them behave like human beings because anarchism is for monkeys, right? You can't just hold someone accountable for human empathy when they don't f*cking have it, right? Right?
The company that owns the software doesn't want you to pirate it, but they're in Japan and worth $4B so f*ck them.
The guy that directed the game probably wants you to not pirate it too, but f*ck him because I never met him.
The guy that translated it doesn't care about the director or the owner, but he also doesn't want you to pirate it because that opens up a Pandora's box of who knows what the f*ck in his personal life. This is totally understandable. His name on a patch is legal. The file that the patch is applied to is illegal.
The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!
And then there are everyone's own personally formed opinions on piracy, which I'm sure that's just fascinating...
One does not pirate shit by going to the most high profile web forum for that shit and announcing plans to hire a plant for significant serial production of said shit in retail worthy packaging. That's how you f*ck everything. That's how you get forums with draconian censorship. That's how you lose translators. Sure, it's a chance to make a small amount of money, but it's also a chance to cause invaluable damage to a scene built by thousands of people world wide over decades.
If I were at a convention and some guy had a cake of pressed and translated Monster Makers that just said "MM" in screen printed Impact font, I would buy one for $1. That's how you do this shit. That's how records have been bootlegged for 50 years and it works pretty well. Making fancy cases, "small profit margins", announcing as publicly as possible, all that is a bad idea.
I'm sure someone has considered locking this thread, but I think it would be a credit to the forum if the idea was simply poo-pooed into oblivion.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Dicer on February 04, 2015, 01:26:56 PM
The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!
Basically sums a lot of this up. Community leeches looking for new ways to turn a nickle into a quarter. We get people coming here all the time to leech off the tech support so they can sell mods on ebay and other forums. Then we have noobs come around here singing up for raffles so they can win shit to flip. Then we have those other noobs that try to suck the sales threads dry so they can complete their Turbografx collection they just started last tuesday, because they have been long time Turbo fans, since sometime last 2014 when they saw it on a youtube video.
Given all of this, the fact that we have noobs on this thread now posting why they think all of this is perfectly fine is no surprise. Basically a bunch of cum buckets with a heightened sense of self-entitlement, with no respect for the TG scene, the community here, the translation/dev scene, or any original IP owners.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: technozombie on February 04, 2015, 02:47:05 PM
My personal opinion(and yes I know my opinion is meaningless) is that no one should press these CD's if they don't own the original IP. If someone wants to make repro boxes/manuals/cases, I don't see a problem with that as long as they put the files up on the net so that anyone could print/make them. Those who want too print their own, can and those who would rather pay someone to do it, could.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: BigusSchmuck on February 04, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
When you see something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dragon-Quest-VI-6-English-SNES-Super-Nintendo-/321657427945?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae446d7e9 I can totally understand why any fan translator would be reluctant to have their translation pressed in any way...
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Necromancer on February 05, 2015, 01:52:25 AM
This thread is chock full of giggles. What I've learned:
- It's okay to buy a half-assed booty for $1, but you're a piece of shit if you pay a whole $2 for a full-assed one in a case.
- If anyone makes a booty today, they will destroy this forum. Ignore the fact that the sky didn't fall when Sapphire booties were distributed, when peeps post manual/case/box scans or even sell prints of them, when hacked NES roms are shared, when guys have offered reproduction SNES/Genny carts, or when ripped music is posted.
- Only noobs have interest in booties. Every single person that's been around for a couple years or more would rather punch their own mother in the face than buy a booty.... unless it's only a buck.
- It's wrong to infringe on data IP rights, but it's okay to steal the artwork.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 05, 2015, 03:33:23 AM
- If anyone makes a booty today, they will destroy this forum. Ignore the fact that the sky didn't fall when Sapphire booties were distributed, when peeps post manual/case/box scans or even sell prints of them, when hacked NES roms are shared, when guys have offered reproduction SNES/Genny carts, or when ripped music is posted.
Fudoh lied to this forum concerning the Sapphire mess, and that shit had consequences that took some time to sort out, both here, in import shops in Japan that had to start checking over stock, on ebay, etc.
As far as anyone else doing it now besides cunt faced Fudoh, as long as they don't publicly associate it with Aaron's forum and website, and I mean this IS Aaron's site and forum, I don't see anything destroyed. Even then if it did happen, it would be more or less a stain on this place, much like it is on other forums. Honestly I don't see Aaron allowing his site to be associated with any of it. If it happened I don't see him letting his forum be used as an open market place for new repros, so I imagine he will come in with the ban hammer.
- Only noobs have interest in booties. Every single person that's been around for a couple years or more would rather punch their own mother in the face than buy a booty.... unless it's only a buck.
Wish that was true, but its not. We even had people from here buying cd-r shit from Fudoh at one point......
- It's wrong to infringe on data IP rights, but it's okay to steal the artwork.
Ehh.... Reprinting doesn't really affect the sales of IP when it is re-released on stuff like Xbox Live Arcade, Virtual Console, PSN, or collection disc released at retail. I don't think anyone is going to be like "Oh I reprinted this insert for R-Type to stick in a blank empty case, so I don't need to buy the game on Virtual Console now.". Most people I would think that are buying inserts actually already own original legal copies of the game. Just loose is all, and they want to make their legit copy of the game presentable on a shelf. Unless said game companies start offering their own reprints again for customers to buy, this is a non-issue.
Outside of maybe a very ambitious SNK Playmore filing subpenas on April Fools, I don't see any company coming after anyone over reprinted inserts being purchased and used for legit copies of their games. They care about the software because it can and does still make them revenue. 20 year old boxes and manuals don't. It's a gray area that just no game company is going to care about because it affects nothing they are doing now or would plan to do with their software in the future, and it would be too difficult to prove it harmed their revenue in court if they no longer offered sales of replacement boxes and manuals through their company, let alone physical copies of the games, since almost everything is a digital re-release anymore.
Also, I cant imagine anyone ordering anything like Sparky's sets just to slap them with cd-rs in an act of promoting bootlegging or selling their bootlegs either. Its not even remotely economically viable to do that anyway.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: toymachine78 on February 05, 2015, 05:43:34 AM
Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?
Does this make sense to anyone?
If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.
As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".
Amen!
Title: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 05, 2015, 07:07:00 AM
This thread is chock full of giggles. What I've learned:
- It's okay to buy a half-assed booty for $1, but you're a piece of shit if you pay a whole $2 for a full-assed one in a case.
- If anyone makes a booty today, they will destroy this forum. Ignore the fact that the sky didn't fall when Sapphire booties were distributed, when peeps post manual/case/box scans or even sell prints of them, when hacked NES roms are shared, when guys have offered reproduction SNES/Genny carts, or when ripped music is posted.
- Only noobs have interest in booties. Every single person that's been around for a couple years or more would rather punch their own mother in the face than buy a booty.... unless it's only a buck.
- It's wrong to infringe on data IP rights, but it's okay to steal the artwork.
Like I said, some people just need rules to function. I'm afraid there is no GUT that unifies human behavior in the realms of morality, legality, practicality, and table manners. People have tried, I don't know if it's ever coming.
The point I was trying to make is that different situations require different behaviors. People don't like it when you swear in church. So, don't swear, or don't go to church, or make your own church where you can swear all you want.
I'll pirate shit all day all night, most likely EVERYONE here has multiple bootlegs, regardless of how many originals they have, including the same people who don't want this project to have a home/presence at PCEFX, but PCEFX is not the place for organizing these things.
Now this certainly puts us way behind the trends seen in other software scenes, where protos and hacks are bootlegged onto non-volatile media left and right and nobody cares at all, but it's a request from people who currently contribute way more than average to this scene so I feel it's more than worth it. When the noobs are bringing more to the table than the vets, and this will happen eventually, then the scene will have changed and we won't be having this conversation.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: esteban on February 05, 2015, 11:03:15 AM
NOTE: Stop getting lost in the old debates (pirating vs reproductions vs preservation)...
...and acknowledge that we only have a few folks actively (or even semi-actively) working on fan translations/hacks/ports/dubs etc.
I, for one, do not want to demoralize and disrupt our tiny group of creators because of the petty, selfish and short-sighted actions of others.
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. f*ck EVERYTHING ELSE.
It really is that simple. You either support the creators, or you are a selfish douchebag.
It really is that simple.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: vestcoat on February 06, 2015, 07:33:32 PM
The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!
Basically sums a lot of this up. Community leeches looking for new ways to turn a nickle into a quarter. We get people coming here all the time to leech off the tech support so they can sell mods on ebay and other forums. Then we have noobs come around here singing up for raffles so they can win shit to flip. Then we have those other noobs that try to suck the sales threads dry so they can complete their Turbografx collection they just started last tuesday, because they have been long time Turbo fans, since sometime last 2014 when they saw it on a youtube video.
Given all of this, the fact that we have noobs on this thread now posting why they think all of this is perfectly fine is no surprise. Basically a bunch of cum buckets with a heightened sense of self-entitlement, with no respect for the TG scene, the community here, the translation/dev scene, or any original IP owners.
Posts like these are why I'm still a member here.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Greg2600 on February 07, 2015, 12:32:39 PM
NOTE: Stop getting lost in the old debates (pirating vs reproductions vs preservation)...
...and acknowledge that we only have a few folks actively (or even semi-actively) working on fan translations/hacks/ports/dubs etc.
I, for one, do not want to demoralize and disrupt our tiny group of creators because of the petty, selfish and short-sighted actions of others.
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. f*ck EVERYTHING ELSE.
It really is that simple. You either support the creators, or you are a selfish douchebag.
It really is that simple.
I respect that. If the translators don't want a pressing, I wouldn't go around their wishes. I wasn't even asking for a translated version, the original version is fine with me (just patched to run on non-modded systems). My point was that beyond emulation, the only way to play the original disc (without paying $200 for PCE-CD copy) is by burning it to a blank CD-R. Many people like having this kind of thing in their collection.
Did you create the game yourself? Is it your IP? Are you going to reimburse the creators of said work if it is not yours, per a legal agreement worked out between you and the original owners of said IP? If your answer is no to all the above, then you already know what the harm in it is. As stated prior, don't publicly involve this forum in that activity. If you plan to do this kind of crap, keep it to yourself and behind the scenes. This forum does not need to be attached to open bootlegging, especially for profit, no matter how low those profits may be.
There's a MASSIVE reproduction community for cart-based systems on retail games that didn't make it to North America. Again, my point was how is this any different? Konami says NOTHING about all it's games patched to NTSC and sold as complete repros on NES, Genesis or SNES. There are folks doing Dreamcast reproduction, albeit usually without pressing the discs with an OEM-looking label. Shoot, I'd take a North American looking CD insert/manual, and a CD-R with a printed label on it (doesn't even have to be clear). Konami won't care, the translators aren't involved, etc. If someone does it, I'll order one. Then come here, and say my penance and 10 Hail Mary's, etc. and ask for forgiveness....
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 07, 2015, 06:17:43 PM
Odds are Konami of America simply doesn't know. I know that sounds ridiculous, but if you actually try to drop Konami of America emails you'll find out really quick that the main US email address is actually some global sales one for orders. The only other posted email on their site if I remember right goes to their US office that handles slot machines. I had to deal with this before when inquiring about patches for MGS Revengence for PC. You actually have to go to their live chat and speak with someone directly in order to get contact info for other offices and support.
Also, depending on where the carts are being manufactured, Konami would need a office with a legal team in that part of the world to take action. If the carts were being made and sold in the United States, and someone dropped them a email to the correct office that deals with that kind of stuff for them, and directly linked to the seller's website, I don't think Konami would sit on their hands for very long.
What ever you do with your cash is your business. I could care less. The only issue here for me at this point would be someone trying to publicly link this forum with his bootlegging business. The moment I see some stupid noob entrepreneur thinking he is entitled enough that he can use this forum to promote his budding new illegal business, popping up with some new sales thread stating "$$$$$$$ LIMITED PRESS RUN 500 COPIES BONK 3 SCD and GODZILLA TWO PACK $$$$$$$"...... Well then yeah I am going to seriously rethink my involvement at that point and probably have someone I know order something cheap get their address, and then drop docs on the seller and drop Toho and Konami a email with said info, if nothing else then to just annoy and chase them off the forum.
I don't care if its SFC, MD, PCE or whatever. You start actively bootlegging someone else's software and publicly use this forum as a mouthpiece for your sales and advertising your product, then yeah there will be consequences. I mean after all, you did flat out ignore Nanto's rules at that point, and for me, that means you get to become a target of teh lulz. If you're a self-entitled noob prick around here thinking he should be able to do what he wants, you have been warned.
" No warez/ISO/ROM/P2P links Posting or asking for warez/ISOs/ROMs & P2P links is prohibited on the forums and is grounds for a permanent ban. " The owners of this forum also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or any other related information collected on this service) in the event of a formal complaint or legal action arising from any situation caused by your use of this forum.
Please note that with each post, your IP address is recorded, in the event that you need to be banned from this forum or your ISP contacted. This will only happen in the event of a major violation of this agreement.
Those rules are in place for a reason. You wanna ignore them, fine, roll that dice, see what happens.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: Black Tiger on February 08, 2015, 01:59:39 AM
Here's another one for tbone:
Language Sexual, racial, or ethnic slurs will not be tolerated in any form and are bannable on the first offense. We also recommend that cursing be held to a minimum, as it does not promote civil conversation. Foul language in the form of insults directed towards other forum members may result in a ban. > Example violations (including, but not limited to): Referring Japanese people as "Japs". If you want to talk about the Japanese, then spell it out completely.
Title: Re: A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 08, 2015, 03:20:42 AM
Language Sexual, racial, or ethnic slurs will not be tolerated in any form and are bannable on the first offense. We also recommend that cursing be held to a minimum, as it does not promote civil conversation. Foul language in the form of insults directed towards other forum members may result in a ban. > Example violations (including, but not limited to): Referring Japanese people as "Japs". If you want to talk about the Japanese, then spell it out completely.
Thankfully I keep my cursing down to a minimum. This way Nanto wont have to worry about Capcom or Konami dragging his site into a lawsuit over our foul language. God forbid Capcom comes in here claiming copyright/trademark over phrases like dick licker, cunt muncher, or ass to mouth. Boy if they did we'd be in some real trouble if that happened.