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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Anthony1 on January 11, 2015, 05:20:05 PM
Title: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 11, 2015, 05:20:05 PM
I'm very interested in trying to find an accurate list of TG-16 USA releases, in chronological order.
Does anybody know if somebody did any research into this and came up with a list ? I've seen a website where one guy claims that 9 games were available at launch, and he had a list of games, but I need to see some more convincing evidence.
Also, is there any other specific information about the actual launch of the TG-16 in the USA ? Reason I ask, is because I know there was this one Sega Genesis newspaper article that confirmed the exact Genesis launch games. Maybe something like that is out there for TG-16 and I just have seen it yet.
If anybody knows of anything, please reply with a link... Thanks.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Black Tiger on January 12, 2015, 02:22:16 AM
The Genesis launch line-up isn't solid either unless you're talking about a window of time. Even then, you blur into other release dates. Launches weren't anywhere near as organized back then and even if some titles were available somewhere technically, it took a while for everything to become available everywhere.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Necromancer on January 12, 2015, 02:43:17 AM
You will never EVER get a solid list of launch titles and exact dates; the information simply does not exist. Even that newspaper article is 'proof' of nothing more than what the paper was fed as expected release dates, which were often incorrect when deadlines were missed and games got delayed.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: NightWolve on January 12, 2015, 02:47:03 AM
Mortal Kombat.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: MrFulci on January 12, 2015, 02:48:19 AM
A lot of information, is long gone by now. Clif notes example; I recall ordering from TZD, their original warehouse. I ask about Turbo Force, lalalal, OK, they throw in a few issues in some orders. I think twice the same issue.
They move warehouse, late 90s, I ask again, "Oh, we threw all that stuff out when we moved". "WHAT??!?!??!" "Hey, did you want to pay shipping for all of them? Sorry, they went in the dumpster.".
I think after that I asked, why they didn't just put an issue in each order they put out, and I was told, "PHHHH, sure, and have to deal with complaints about bent magazines, do you have more, etc".
I understand, and still have good memories of TZD to this day. Good folks. Makes more sense, 15+ years later.
I imagine a number of TG-16 things, at least paper related, went that way.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 12, 2015, 05:58:21 AM
The Genesis launch line-up isn't solid either unless you're talking about a window of time.
The Genesis launch lineup is pretty much set in stone as far as I'm concerned. There is a VERY convincing USA Today newspaper article from August of 1989 that features children playing the full batch of launch games for the Sega Genesis. You combine that with more evidence from usenet posts of the time, and it's pretty much about as confirmed as you can get, without having a time machine and recording videos of the whole thing.
These two pieces of information, pretty much confirms that there were 6 games launched for the Genesis on August 14th, 1989 (New York & Los Angeles areas)
1. Altered Beast - pack in 2. Tommy Lasorda Baseball 3. Last Battle 4. Space Harrier II 5. Super Thunderblade 6. Thunder Force II
There are a number of other sources, that help confirm this information, but I'd have to look through my notes to find all of the particular info. Bottom line, I feel really, really good about the Genesis launch list.
When it comes to the TG-16 however, I'm starting at square one. I've search usenet repeatedly looking for any mentions of TurboGrafx in August and September and October of 1989, and there just aren't that many posts about it. No conclusive list as far as I can remember.
Also, I don't know of any USA Today article regarding the TG-16 or early store advertisement scans or anything like that. I have most of the video game magazines sold during that time period, but magazines are very, very unreliable with their dates and lists. In fact, I've found that magazines more often than not give mis-information . Sometimes in the letters section, and the tips and tricks section, you can get valuable clues as to when something was released, but for the most part, I don't think magazines provide very compelling evidence. Usenet posts are probably the most valuable information, because it's time stamped. Newspaper articles are also quite valuable, if you know the exact date of the newspaper. It's also time stamped in a way.
That USA Today article that I linked to, we don't have an exact date for that. Supposedly it is sometime in August of 1989. There might be a way to use USA Today archives, to trace the exact date of that article, but you probably have to pay some kind of fee to access their archives. I've thought about searching the microfilm of my local newspaper, to see if there were any articles in the business section around the time of release, or maybe Toys R Us or Montgomery Wards ads or something...
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 12, 2015, 06:07:39 AM
Just went over to the USA Today website, and I was able to search their archives and the date of that Genesis article is August 24th, 1989. You have to pay money to get the full article.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: MrFulci on January 12, 2015, 06:19:20 AM
Anthony1, my advice, knock yourself out, but why not take a break, and enjoy the games and system(s)?!?!??!?
Otherwise, nullity has that hose.....
I got it, also, to keep things tame;
That there, hose....
.....
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 12, 2015, 06:41:03 AM
So are you looking for the first release of a title, in the major, first-release market? That's kinda what it sounds like.
Also, that USA Today article is from Aug. 24th, 1989, according to Factiva (a perk of working at a university).
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: MrFulci on January 12, 2015, 06:42:32 AM
Anthony1, my advice, knock yourself out, but why not take a break, and enjoy the games and system(s)?!?!??!?
Oh, trust me... I love the games and the systems. No question about it. I just wish the history of these systems was a little better preserved.
I've been playing TG-16 lately, and for whatever reason, I've had this hankering to play all the TG-16 launch games. I went to find a list of the TG-16 launch games, hoping there was some rock solid list of launch titles, but apparently not.
I still want to know the actual launch list. So, I'll continue to try to research this, and come up with the most accurate list possible.
Is this a life or death matter ? Of course not...
Is it that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things ? absolutely not
It's just something I want to know.
I was a very early adopter of the TG-16, and I want to retrace my original journey with the TG-16. I bought certain games in a specific order, and if I could find a reasonably accurate chronological list, it would help me determine what order I specifically played the games in. I'm pretty sure I bought my TG-16 in December of 1989, and I'm pretty sure the only game I bought with the machine was World Class Baseball. I only had World Class Baseball and Keith Courage in Alpha Zones for a few weeks, and then I think I went back to Toys R Us and picked up Legendary Axe and Dungeon Explorer.
I've been playing all of those games lately, but also want to play all the other early TG-16 games that were on store shelves in the USA at the time. Basically, like the first 20 or so USA Hu Cards.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: MrFulci on January 12, 2015, 06:48:55 AM
Anthony1, my advice, knock yourself out, but why not take a break, and enjoy the games and system(s)?!?!??!?
Oh, trust me... I love the games and the systems. No question about it. I just wish the history of these systems was a little better preserved.
I've been playing TG-16 lately, and for whatever reason, I've had this hankering to play all the TG-16 launch games. I went to find a list of the TG-16 launch games, hoping there was some rock solid list of launch titles, but apparently not.
I still want to know the actual launch list. So, I'll continue to try to research this, and come up with the most accurate list possible.
Is this a life or death matter ? Of course not...
Is it that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things ? absolutely not
It's just something I want to know.
I was a very .....................
Anthony, STOP IT! I am f*cking with ya. Only, not about the hose.... Here is another video, to refresh you, (comma)
(Carriage return).
.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 12, 2015, 06:59:43 AM
I am poking around in Factiva and LexisNexis right now (snow day from work) just to see what I can find out. There are some interesting news articles forecasting the release, including one from Toronto with a test panel of kids comparing the TG to an NES, side-by-side.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: MrFulci on January 12, 2015, 07:00:16 AM
I'm very interested in trying to find an accurate list of TG-16 USA releases, in chronological order.
Does anybody know if somebody did any research into this and came up with a list ? I've seen a website where one guy claims that 9 games were available at launch, and he had a list of games, but I need to see some more convincing evidence.
Also, is there any other specific information about the actual launch of the TG-16 in the USA ? Reason I ask, is because I know there was this one Sega Genesis newspaper article that confirmed the exact Genesis launch games. Maybe something like that is out there for TG-16 and I just have seen it yet.
If anybody knows of anything, please reply with a link... Thanks.
If Sparky can't see the, "sailtboat" yet,. you gotta take the this on your own! Sparky makes counterfeit TG-16 game boxes, and can't see, "Magic Eye" yet, he has good eyeball stuff, going on.... Surprise us, Anthony1. Relax your eyes, when searching microfilm...
...........
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 12, 2015, 07:09:01 AM
WTF, Sega has dates everywhere. Shipments of the Genesis began Aug. 15, 1989. All I can find for the TG is that there were units purportedly "on shelves" by the beginning of October. Seems Ken Wirt of NEC HE is a lot tighter-lipped than Al Nilson of SOA.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 12, 2015, 07:15:02 AM
" As for NEC, the company started shipping products in September, beginning in the New York and L.A. markets, and while they're not releasing sales projections, the company expects that industrywide demand for 16-bit products should exceed one million units by Christmas. NEC hopes to have 20 titles on the shelves by the holidays.
NEC'S PROMOTIONAL PLANS for the second half of 1989 include the "Play Tour Challenge," in which TurboVans decked out like moving billboards tour nine major markets, allowing kids to try TurboGrafx-16 games; and "Play Tour Turbo Expos," which NEC's VP/home entertainment Ken Wirt likens to "a big rock 'n roll concert for video games," featuring free gameplay, skateboard and BMX demonstrations and live DJs. The company is said to be close to an agreement for a tie-in with a major national package goods company.
Unlike competitor Sega, NEC is betting that the future of CD-ROM technology begins now, and its TurboGrafx-CD player should be available sometime this month. In addition to its use as a CD-ROM video game player, the unit can serve as a conventional audio CD player, since it's capable of playing three- and five-inch music CDs and CD-Graphics-encoded programming. Expected retail is $399.
Despite its initial high cost, Wirt is high on CD-ROM's potential in the video game marketplace. "One of the interesting trends emerging as we head into the '90s is that games are coming out in higher megabits; those chips are expensive, and therefore games are more expensive. One economical way to deal with that is with CD-ROM, which contains 2,000 times the memory of conventional cartridges. The CD is a way to deliver increased storage."
Wirt mentions that as long as the volume for video game CDs remains low, software costs for CD-ROM-based games will have to be higher than for audio CDs because manufacturers have to amortize research and development expenses. "Ultimately, if you could sell as many copies of a video game gas you do with music CDs, pricing could be comparable," Wirt says. As to when CD-ROM might gain mass market acceptance, Wirt says that depends on "when a breakthrough game {in terms of sales} comes out and when hardware costs come down significantly"; he predicts that this could happen sometime in 1991. "
From: LOOKING PAST CHRISTMAS. (VIDEO GAMES) (INCLUDES RELATED ARTICLE ON NINTENDO'S PLANS FOR 1990) By James K. Willcox 2593 words 1 October 1989 Consumer Electronics CNEL 48 English Copyright International Thomson Business Press 1989
Still no titles. I've seen mention a few times of 8 launch titles, but no newspaper source is willing to verify those titles.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Necromancer on January 12, 2015, 07:50:13 AM
This stuff sounds like 'proof of weapons of mass destruction'. :lol:
I'm not saying the six launch titles are wrong, but an article and review saying what was available weeks after the release date doesn't prove a dang thing. It's still better numbers than what we're ever gonna have for the Turbob, though, and an educated guess is better than nothing.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 12, 2015, 08:29:03 AM
So, after reviewing a few articles, the only launch titles confirmed by various news articles are KC (duh), China Warrior, World Class Baseball, and Blazing Lazers. I could not find mention of any other titles by name to confirm their launch release status.
Title: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 12, 2015, 08:33:41 AM
I still want to know the actual launch list. So, I'll continue to try to research this, and come up with the most accurate list possible.
Is this a life or death matter ? Of course not...
Is it that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things ? absolutely not
It's just something I want to know.
I was a very early adopter of the TG-16, and I want to retrace my original journey with the TG-16. I bought certain games in a specific order, and if I could find a reasonably accurate chronological list, it would help me determine what order I specifically played the games in. I'm pretty sure I bought my TG-16 in December of 1989, and I'm pretty sure the only game I bought with the machine was World Class Baseball. I only had World Class Baseball and Keith Courage in Alpha Zones for a few weeks, and then I think I went back to Toys R Us and picked up Legendary Axe and Dungeon Explorer.
Comrade, many of us have wanted an accurate list of release dates, but we have struggled just to determine the *year* certain games were released.
I have an old thread ("Sloppy Release Dates for North America") that can help. UPDATE:
(You'll note that I defer to DragonMasterDan because he is a fellow stickler for precision and details. He doesn't carelessly compile lists. Over the years, using his lists as a reference has suggested, to me at least, that most of the games are accurate. Many are still debatable, of course.)
Otherwise, all we have is our collective memory form first-hand experiences.
I *absolutely* purchased TG-16 in December of 1989. Probably a day or two after Christmas. My brothers and I pooled all of our birthday + holiday money.
We *absolutely* purchased: (Toys-R-Us, Totowa, NJ):
Other games that Toys-R-Us had cards for (does not guarantee they were in stock):
Deep Blue? Dungeon Explorer? World Class Baseball? R-Type?
This is where my memory blurs and I can't say for certain. This sucks, because my brothers and I talked about this in the mid-/late-90's, and at that time, we remembered a lot of the games that we decided NOT to get in the first batch.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: jelloslug on January 12, 2015, 09:49:20 AM
One thing that I have noticed is that the earlier orange label games have a slightly different box than the later orange label games. With that knowledge someone with all the orange label boxes could at least narrow it down a bit.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on January 12, 2015, 10:04:57 AM
The problem with this list is that it might simply have used the old TG-16 pamphlets as a source, which listed these games. However, as many have already stated, there is a difference between *intensions* and *actual availability*.
For example, Deep Blue should be on that list of launch titles.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 12, 2015, 10:25:02 AM
A couple different articles referred to there being 8 launch titles. In addition to the pack-in, that's 9 titles. One even mentioned that additional games would be released on a week leading up to Christmas. No idea how well that panned out, however. And since one article lists shipments beginning in September and another consoles being on store shelves beginning of October, where does the one-a-week release period even begin?
That said, I imagine if you were in NY or LA and went into a store the first week of October, chances are if they had the system, they probably had 8 additional titles to choose from.
I, too, am relatively certain the Wikipedia article is incorrect, because World Class Baseball was mentioned in more than one article. It was apparently being shown prior to the market release of the system.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 13, 2015, 05:19:38 AM
This stuff sounds like 'proof of weapons of mass destruction'. :lol:
I'm not saying the six launch titles are wrong, but an article and review saying what was available weeks after the release date doesn't prove a dang thing. It's still better numbers than what we're ever gonna have for the Turbob, though, and an educated guess is better than nothing.
I think the Usenet post is particularly convincing evidence. The guy bought a Sega Genesis, and was giving his thoughts on every available game. He said there were 5 individually released games, and the pack-in, Altered Beast. The date of his post is August 29th, 1989. That can't be faked. That was the day he posted it. If you read the entire thing he wrote, it's pretty obvious that this dude is incredibly thorough. He knows his shizz, if you know what I'm sayin...
Also, there is other corroborating evidence that also goes along with it.
In fact, we know for certain that the 7th Genesis game released was Ghouls and Ghosts. We don't know for sure what the 8th game released is, but we definitely know the 7th, and we know the first 6.
I still feel like usenet is some of the best evidence possible, because it's time stamped, and usually the posts are by hardcore fans of videogaming (from that time period), who try to really keep up on things. These are the guys that are calling Babbages and Software ETC every day to find out if such n such game just arrived.
(Sure, there is plenty of mis-information on usenet as well (console wars were very real back then), but if you read enough posts, you can pretty easily know which information carries weight, and which info is suspect at best)
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Necromancer on January 13, 2015, 06:04:02 AM
The date of his post is August 29th, 1989. That can't be faked. That was the day he posted it.
That's two weeks after launch, meaning it's possible (though not likely) that at least one of those games could have came out a week after launch.
Well, he did say that he'd been playing the games for 6 days when he wrote that. But it is certainly possible that one or more of those games wasn't available until later in the week (although I doubt it.)
I've been working on this with Anthony for a while now, and while you guys can certainly try to poke holes in the Genesis launch line up that we (mostly he) came up with, the bottom line is that there is enough supporting evidence for it that we can at least say that it is probably an accurate launch line-up, and that there certainly doesn't seem to be any contrary evidence out there to suggest anything different.
This thread is supposed to be about the Turbo's launch line-up. I think what we would like would be to come up with a list of games that we can, though the possession of at least some supporting evidence, feel similarly confident about. A lot of you are just being dismissive and saying "it can't be done" or "your Genesis line up is wrong" and it just isn't helpful. If nothing else, this is at least something interesting to talk about...
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Gentlegamer on January 13, 2015, 08:06:46 AM
I started a thread asking about release dates last summer and found that it seems like an impossible task at this point in time.
Newspapers seem to be dismissed, but surely something like sales flyers would be a good way to find the ballpark time frame a game was available at retail.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 13, 2015, 08:47:19 AM
I started a thread asking about release dates last summer and found that it seems like an impossible task at this point in time.
Newspapers seem to be dismissed, but surely something like sales flyers would be a good way to find the ballpark time frame a game was available at retail.
Right. Newspaper articles, sales fliers, usenet posts, and the memories of people who were a little bit older when the system came out (if they bought it at launch) can all be used to piece together a list that at least has some citable sources. The lists of launch games I see on Wikipedia seem largely pulled out of someone's backside.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Necromancer on January 13, 2015, 09:05:42 AM
So you two are pulling an aycehole and want the forum to do your research for you? :P
The July '89 issue of VG&CE says that at least ten titles were planned and listed Alien Crush, JJ & Jeff, Legendary Axe, Power Golf, World Class Baseball, R-Type, Victory Run, and Vigilante as those confirmed for launch. With Keith Courage, that makes nine and it shall for here on out be considered fact because it was printed in an infallible gaming magazine.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Gentlegamer on January 13, 2015, 09:29:42 AM
Right. Newspaper articles, sales fliers, usenet posts, and the memories of people who were a little bit older when the system came out (if they bought it at launch) can all be used to piece together a list that at least has some citable sources. The lists of launch games I see on Wikipedia seem largely pulled out of someone's backside.
I recently bought a Sega Master System game that still had the original Toys R Us receipt in it, pinpointing when the the game was originally purchased. Have any of the more extensive boxed collectors ever come across original receipts that can be used to date retail availability?
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 13, 2015, 09:29:59 AM
So you two are pulling an aycehole and want the forum to do your research for you? :P
The July '89 issue of VG&CE says that at least ten titles were planned and listed Alien Crush, JJ & Jeff, Legendary Axe, Power Golf, World Class Baseball, R-Type, Victory Run, and Vigilante as those confirmed for launch. With Keith Courage, that makes nine and it shall for here on out be considered fact because it was printed in an infallible gaming magazine.
I don't think he was doing that at all. Just seeing what kind of information people might have here. I mean, this is the de facto Turbo forum on the web, so why wouldn't he ask here first?
Gaming mags are unfortunately not a good source. They are written well ahead of time and therefore often have incorrect information. Like the July 89 issue was probably written in late April and early May, so that it could hit the news stands at the beginning of June. Since the launch wasn't until late August, the information is not trustworthy because it's based on what NEC was hoping to have available at launch, not what was actually available.
Unfortunately there was not a lot of scuttlebutt on Usenet about the Turbo so it's hard to find remarks from people at the time of launch.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Necromancer on January 13, 2015, 10:09:57 AM
You're mistaken if you think a filler piece like that was written just a day or two before post, especially at a rag like USA Today. They say flat out that the Genesis wasn't out yet (even though it was) so how could they not be similarly relying on what Sega fed them? I won't try to say it's the same thing, as plans given weeks in advance are surely better than those given months in advance, but it's probably as good as you're going to get.
But don't let me stop you from whining that "nobody will help". I guess you believe we're all sitting on piles of launch day receipts that we didn't want to share the last eight times this topic was covered.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Bernie on January 13, 2015, 10:32:58 AM
Wuh whoa!
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 13, 2015, 10:39:00 AM
Hahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 13, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
But don't let me stop you from whining that "nobody will help". I guess you believe we're all sitting on piles of launch day receipts that we didn't want to share the last eight times this topic was covered.
Whoa dude. Maybe you and I got our signals crossed? I don't think I'm whining at all, I never said that "nobody will help", and I really don't understand your aggressive posture on this.
I think that this is a interesting topic of conversation, I'm glad Anthony started this thread, and I am a little bit disappointed by the people saying that we should just give up because it can't be done. If some people think that this is silly then that's fine, but I think it's a topic worthy of conversation. Nothing wrong with pooling together information, comparing notes, and seeing what we can come up with.
Title: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 13, 2015, 11:39:21 AM
We need someone who videotaped (with accurate time stamp) a ToysRUs stockroom and retail space in September 1989 . That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Bernie on January 13, 2015, 11:58:37 AM
I find it sad that NEC of America did not do better than this. Hell, even music CDs have a freaking release date documented somewhere. Nintendo, Sega, ect... It would be cool to see something, but a better bet would be a fan based time line.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 13, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
LOL, that would definitely settle the issue!
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 13, 2015, 02:12:44 PM
See? This man is thinking.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 13, 2015, 03:14:19 PM
Newspaper articles is awesome, but most of the places require you to go somewhere to view the microfiche. I haven't really looked into it here locally. I need to call the Newspaper, and ask them what their policy is.
One thing about looking through actual newspapers... the sales scans would be invaluable. Ads from Toys R Us and Kay Bee toys and stuff like that. Some of them would be wildly inaccurate, but again, the more information that could weigh in on it, the merrier.
Also, have you guys seen that one video on YouTube where somebody actually is walking through a Toys R Us aisle, filming the price tags of Genesis games ? It was the Arden way Toys R Us in Sacramento, CA, a place I've been to plenty of times. (Unfortunately, I was in San Diego at the time of the TG-16 and went to a Toys R Us in the San Diego area to get my games and stuff. Bought my TG-16 system at Montgomery Wards.
Seeing that video, does definitely bring back memories.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: HailingTheThings on January 13, 2015, 04:08:23 PM
We need someone who videotaped (with accurate time stamp) a ToysRUs stockroom and retail space in September 1989 . That would be awesome. http://youtu.be/CsG47Jbf6CM
I didn't think I could watch the whole thing, I tried to resist, but I was charmed enough. :)
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 13, 2015, 07:28:30 PM
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: BigusSchmuck on January 14, 2015, 01:48:08 AM
Isn't there some sort of archive of interviews from former NEC employees that could elaborate further on this?
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 16, 2015, 04:31:16 AM
So, I recently bought some more issues of Game Players magazine, from 1989 and 1990. I was looking through one of the issues last night, to possibly get more clues on the TurboGrafx-16 launch library, but I actually ran into some interesting Sega Genesis info.
The issue in question, is the November 1989 issue of Game Players. This is what the cover looks like:
Sorry, couldn't find a smaller image of the cover.
Anyways, as you can see on the front cover of the magazine it says "Sega Genesis: First 5 Games!"
When I first saw this, I was like.... "Oh shit... 5 games ? 5 games ? What... I thought it was six launch games... hmmmm".
So, I get to page 30, where there is a Sega Genesis article written by Tom R. Halfhill. It's a 3 page article, and it talks all about the first batch of launch software.
Here is the important part:
" Last Month we covered Altered Beast , the cartridge that comes with every Genesis. This month, let's take a look at the other five titles initially available: Space Harrier II, Tommy Lasorda Baseball, Thunder Force II, Super Thunder Blade and Last Battle.
The key phrase of course is "other five titles initially available".
So, this Game Players article, in the November 1989 issue, is another valuable piece of evidence, that strengthens the claim that the Genesis had exactly six launch games. The pack-in Altered Beast, along with 5 other games.
The USA Today article claims the same thing, and the Usenet review from a gamer in late August claims the same thing as well. I think that this pretty much puts the Genesis launch game debate thing to bed, because the evidence is clearly pointing in one specific direction, and everything is supporting the theory of those 6 games being the actual launch games.
Anyways, this is the kind of info that I'm looking for in regards to the TG-16 launch. Basically, as many pieces of evidence as possible, that points to a certain number of launch games. This November 1989 issue doesn't really have much of anything in it regarding the TG-16. There is a strategy guide for Keith Courage, but that's basically it.
Anyways, I'll start checking the other issues I just got to see if there are any interesting tidbits of information, but just thought that I would post this Genesis info.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 16, 2015, 04:36:58 AM
That's an awesome find. Since it's the November issue, the article was most likely based on actual fact instead of a press release from Sega. I wonder if I have that issue, but I don't think so.
Title: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 16, 2015, 08:39:37 AM
Anyways, this is the kind of info that I'm looking for in regards to the TG-16 launch. Basically, as many pieces of evidence as possible, that points to a certain number of launch games. This November 1989 issue doesn't really have much of anything in it regarding the TG-16. There is a strategy guide for Keith Courage, but that's basically...
Kool :)
Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)
I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7
I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 16, 2015, 11:33:16 AM
Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)
I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7
I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.
Specifically, which of the 3 pieces of evidence do you think is the weakest ? The USA Today article, the Usenet post or the magazine article ? Did you actually read them fully ?
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: spenoza on January 16, 2015, 05:12:23 PM
Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)
I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7
I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.
Specifically, which of the 3 pieces of evidence do you think is the weakest ? The USA Today article, the Usenet post or the magazine article ? Did you actually read them fully ?
YI don't think he's crying foul on any of your sources for the Genesis launch list. He's just pointed out some of the facts of journalism: reporters love press releases because they can embellish them and Boom! they have an article and it took very little time and no independent reporting.
For example, if USA Today, the NY Times, and EGM all had articles running down the launch titles for a system and the lists match, that's better than nothing, but because they are all news/journalist sources, their information on launch titles could have come from the exact same press release from Sega or NEC or Nintendo, meaning they're all just parroting a single information point. So you'll need to balance those against first-hand reports, if you can get them. The Usenet source is a good example of helping to flesh this out.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Jibbajaba on January 16, 2015, 05:47:44 PM
I think that in this particular case, the Usenet post confirms the USA Today and Game Players articles. Otherwise I would agree that they could both be based on the same bad information. For that reason I don't trust game magazine articles talking about the Turbo's launch line-up, because we haven't found any boots-on-the-ground confirmation from back in the day.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 17, 2015, 02:00:46 AM
Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)
I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7
I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.
Specifically, which of the 3 pieces of evidence do you think is the weakest ? The USA Today article, the Usenet post or the magazine article ? Did you actually read them fully ?
YI don't think he's crying foul on any of your sources for the Genesis launch list. He's just pointed out some of the facts of journalism: reporters love press releases because they can embellish them and Boom! they have an article and it took very little time and no independent reporting.
For example, if USA Today, the NY Times, and EGM all had articles running down the launch titles for a system and the lists match, that's better than nothing, but because they are all news/journalist sources, their information on launch titles could have come from the exact same press release from Sega or NEC or Nintendo, meaning they're all just parroting a single information point. So you'll need to balance those against first-hand reports, if you can get them. The Usenet source is a good example of helping to flesh this out.
Exactly. Thank you.
:)
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: jelloslug on January 18, 2015, 07:12:58 AM
I took a look at all the orange label boxes that I have (I'm missing 5 of them) and I noticed that only Victory Run and The Legendary Axe are a totally different style on the rear. I wonder if those two games are the actual first launch games.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 31, 2015, 04:10:20 AM
I took a look at all the orange label boxes that I have (I'm missing 5 of them) and I noticed that only Victory Run and The Legendary Axe are a totally different style on the rear. I wonder if those two games are the actual first launch games.
It's interesting that you mention that, because there is three pieces of information that would suggest that there was actually two waves of launch games. The first wave included just 3 games. The pack in (Keith Courage of course), Legendary Axe and Victory Run.
1. I think it was a Game Players magazine that I was reading (would have to go back and double check), but they were talking about how there was two waves of TG-16 games. They explained that they already covered the first batch of games (Keith, Legendary and Victory), and that they were going to talk about the second batch of software.
2. There was a Usenet post from a guy that mentioned that he was looking at TG-16 stuff in the stores but only saw 3 different games. He specifically mentioned Legendary Axe as one of the 3 games.
3. In the earliest advertising for the TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August and September of 1989, the 3 games featured in the ads, always seems to be Keith, Legendary and Victory Run.
Obviously, none of this is any kind of slam dunk evidence, but it is something interesting to ponder. It's possible that when the system was first launched in New York and Los Angeles that only 3 games initially appeared, and then after it was rolled out to the rest of the USA, another batch of 6 or 7 games arrived.
Title: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 31, 2015, 06:02:59 AM
I took a look at all the orange label boxes that I have (I'm missing 5 of them) and I noticed that only Victory Run and The Legendary Axe are a totally different style on the rear. I wonder if those two games are the actual first launch games.
It's interesting that you mention that, because there is three pieces of information that would suggest that there was actually two waves of launch games. The first wave included just 3 games. The pack in (Keith Courage of course), Legendary Axe and Victory Run.
1. I think it was a Game Players magazine that I was reading (would have to go back and double check), but they were talking about how there was two waves of TG-16 games. They explained that they already covered the first batch of games (Keith, Legendary and Victory), and that they were going to talk about the second batch of software.
2. There was a Usenet post from a guy that mentioned that he was looking at TG-16 stuff in the stores but only saw 3 different games. He specifically mentioned Legendary Axe as one of the 3 games.
3. In the earliest advertising for the TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August and September of 1989, the 3 games featured in the ads, always seems to be Keith, Legendary and Victory Run.
Obviously, none of this is any kind of slam dunk evidence, but it is something interesting to ponder. It's possible that when the system was first launched in New York and Los Angeles that only 3 games initially appeared, and then after it was rolled out to the rest of the USA, another batch of 6 or 7 games arrived.
Interesting.
I was working on an old advertisement years ago (thanks for reminding me, yet another project to finish)....
...and Legendary Axe and Victory Run were definitely given a big push.
Now, this reveals a lot about NEC's marketing (the games they wanted to focus on initially), but it might have also been tied to availability (NEC knew both LA and VR were launching nationally).
Anthony1, I love that you are still here trying to piece this damn puzzle together. :)
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on January 31, 2015, 06:22:05 AM
The good news, is that once you get a bit further out from launch, the games tended to "trickle" out more slowly, and I think a more accurate arrival time frame is possible.
For example, it seems that Military Madness likely arrived in very early March, or very late February 1990.
On March 6th, 1990, this one guy on Usenet mentions that he bought Military Madness the night previously for $55. Assuming the guy has no reason to lie, he bought the game on March 5th, 1990. There isn't any post prior to this time that mentions Military Madness.
Another guy on Usenet, started doing a bi-monthly video game poll, around late January 1990. He would have a list of all the Genesis games, Turbo games, NES games, etc, etc and would list the games out about every two weeks. On his lists in February, Military Madness is nowhere to be found, but on his March list, it shows up.
Again, this isn't rock solid info, but it's better than nothing. I just think once I get outside the launch window, the games probably arrived a few per month. Maybe some months were totally dry. A game would trickle out here and there. In this type of case, I think the Usenet posts will be very helpful, because Turbo fans back then were waiting for each release with baited breath.
Lots of people back in that time would call Software Etc, Electronics Boutique, Babbages and Kay Bee Toys daily trying to see if such and such game arrived yet, or if anything arrived yet. These guys would rush to the store as soon as possible to grab the newest arriving game, and usually somebody would post something about.... "I just got "blank" from Toys R Us..." on Usenet, and that information is very helpful.
Also, I look at people selling games on Usenet. Lots of people would try to sell games there, or trade games, and by seeing what they actually had on hand, on the specific date they posted the ad, you know for sure that the game was in the hands of the public.
I'll also be going through all my old gaming mags, seeing which months games were previewed, reviewed, etc, etc. When did the tips and tricks from readers end up printed in the mag ? or questions in the leters section. ( Certainly, it's a bit tricky to nail down when the info in the mag was written, but typical lead times back then was 3 months )
Anyways, it's like researching UFO's or Bigfoot. Every little bit of information is helpful, and could eventually unravel the puzzle.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on January 31, 2015, 06:32:12 AM
Anthony, thanks for mentioning that interesting summary about Usenet...sounds like a very good source of chronological info (more precise than anything else we roll ever find!)
...if only we knew what city these folks were in! It would help us pinpoint geographic availability.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on February 02, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
Anthony, thanks for mentioning that interesting summary about Usenet...sounds like a very good source of chronological info (more precise than anything else we roll ever find!)
...if only we knew what city these folks were in! It would help us pinpoint geographic availability.
Actually, I might be hyping up Usenet a little too much. Reason being... Google only has so much of Usenet that you can search. They might only have like 20 percent of the posts that were going on, so sometimes info is hard to find, because they actually have a small sample size.
Just go to Google, and search for Google Groups, then search for rec.games.video I think it is. Then search for a keyword like "bonk", then have it sorted by date. It can be a bit time consuming to sift through the stuff, but there are some very good tidbits of info to discover.
I just wish they had the other 80 percent of all the posts, cause there is tons of stuff missing.
Also, sometimes, you can determine what cities people are in. Most of these guys (and some gals I'm sure), were in college at the time, and they will have something about their University. Or they worked for a company and would have their location.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on February 07, 2015, 06:03:21 AM
Anthony, thanks for mentioning that interesting summary about Usenet...sounds like a very good source of chronological info (more precise than anything else we roll ever find!)
...if only we knew what city these folks were in! It would help us pinpoint geographic availability.
Actually, I might be hyping up Usenet a little too much. Reason being... Google only has so much of Usenet that you can search. They might only have like 20 percent of the posts that were going on, so sometimes info is hard to find, because they actually have a small sample size.
Just go to Google, and search for Google Groups, then search for rec.games.video I think it is. Then search for a keyword like "bonk", then have it sorted by date. It can be a bit time consuming to sift through the stuff, but there are some very good tidbits of info to discover.
I just wish they had the other 80 percent of all the posts, cause there is tons of stuff missing.
Also, sometimes, you can determine what cities people are in. Most of these guys (and some gals I'm sure), were in college at the time, and they will have something about their University. Or they worked for a company and would have their location.
Yeah, I've searched Usenet before (years ago) but I remember getting to a point of "diminishing returns" where I was not finding anything too useful...
The sad thing is that I can't remember if I saved my findings or not.
Anyway, here's a teaser of that old project I mentioned...this thread inspired me to go back and continue working on it! Ha! It was from years ago...
The TG-16 launch advertising had this style...it didn't last long... and I think you were referring to ads similar to this in one of you prior posts...that's the connection I made, anyway. Ha! :)
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: Anthony1 on February 08, 2015, 08:04:30 AM
Yeah, that's one of the earliest ads for TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August 1989. As you can see, Legendary Axe, Victory Run and Keith Courage were the main three games featured.
I'm starting to think that with the first test launch, there was only 3 games. Then, when people around the country could start to get Turbo's, I think there was a second wave of software that arrived then.
Kinda like two different launches. Maybe if you were in New York, initially, you could only buy Legendary Axe and Victory Run individually. Then, when the TG-16 launched Nationwide, that's perhaps when games like China Warrior and R-Type and Dungeon Explorer, Power Golf, etc, etc also arrived.
Of course, this is just a theory right now, and there is a wee bit of evidence pointing to this theory being plausible. but I need some better corroborating evidence to really lock down this possibility.
Title: Re: Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?
Post by: esteban on February 09, 2015, 08:44:25 AM
Yeah, that's one of the earliest ads for TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August 1989. As you can see, Legendary Axe, Victory Run and Keith Courage were the main three games featured.
I'm starting to think that with the first test launch, there was only 3 games. Then, when people around the country could start to get Turbo's, I think there was a second wave of software that arrived then.
Kinda like two different launches. Maybe if you were in New York, initially, you could only buy Legendary Axe and Victory Run individually. Then, when the TG-16 launched Nationwide, that's perhaps when games like China Warrior and R-Type and Dungeon Explorer, Power Golf, etc, etc also arrived.
Of course, this is just a theory right now, and there is a wee bit of evidence pointing to this theory being plausible. but I need some better corroborating evidence to really lock down this possibility.
If you haven't seen this page, I'm slowly piecing together stuff from the July/August 1989 issue of EGM #02...
http://archives.tg-16.com/EGM_1989_07.htm
Jump here and read the fine print at the bottom of the page: