To be clear, I was not contacted in any way, shape or form about Xak III... SO II is Tru's project mainly by agreement, though I helped him start it ages ago, and is outside of my concern. Xak III is my issue and the fact that this f--k is likely getting ready to press Ys IV down the road, and so my hopes of eventually doing it myself someday, the right way (partly), by contacting members that can be, taking votes, working out deals, redubbing any voice actor who refused inclusion (e.g. like BurntLasagna's brother for a soldier character I'd definitely have to redub), etc. that's all dashed as I don't think I could ever catch up to this guy's expertise in doing this and I'm far too busy to even try this year! He definitely thinks he should get to do it and pocket 100% of the earnings!
As many know, I'm not a fan credo fanatic and against the concept in principle, but sneaking around and doing it in secret when you COULD contact the people's fan translation work you are using, is where there's an issue for me! Avoiding the company which would want $5k-$10k-$15k in licensing fees is understandable and would mean no bootlegs/repros would ever happen, so escaping that, I understand.
The other thing, this m0therf--ker never donated a single penny, a single f--king penny ever, the f--king prick that he is! If you're in this forum, Tobias, f--k you a$$hole! F--k you, you piece of f--king scum!!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 20, 2015, 02:04:08 AM
*sigh*
It was just a matter of time before this happened. First he stole Tom's stuff, now he's going for translated goodies; any bets that he'll again claim ignorance of who did the work?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on February 20, 2015, 03:09:49 AM
That f*cking sucks. I'm quite sorry that some scumbag is profiting off of your hard work.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on February 20, 2015, 03:18:39 AM
Just a thought, but on your Emerald Dragon translation, I would make sure to include a new title screen with something like "This is a fan translation provided for free. If you purchased this then you ripped off by cretinous scum" or something
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on February 20, 2015, 03:20:48 AM
HOOOOOLYYYYYY SHIT.
I am sorry to hear this man. First the Deucebag shit with XSEED and now this, I honestly don't blame you for being so friggin pissed off. I really hope he does not steal the YsIV translation because if he does there is going to be a shitstorm coming.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Dicer on February 20, 2015, 03:22:50 AM
He does it because as we have seen, there is a demand for these...https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=17720.0
I think it's sad but it's come down to this, if you care about profits then whatever project you are working on needs to be kept under wraps until such time as you can create your own pressed discs before someone else does. But, if you are doing it for the love of it and for the fan base, then f*ck this guy he shouldn't bother you one bit.
Not everyone can recreate a disc like this, and sure he is making a tidy profit, but that's only because people are paying.
I'm sure Y's IV is in the sights meanwhile we bicker back and forth because of one guy that pretty much put the kabosh on a community version happening with out a bunch of reworking.
I love this system and I am eager to see the coming translations...however either they need to be done in secret or done without worrying about one shitty profiteer.
Only good thing that came out of this I was unaware of SO translation, going to have to give that a go.
As always just my .02 on the matter, sorry if I offended anyone...well not really lol
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: jtucci31 on February 20, 2015, 03:31:21 AM
It was just a matter of time before this happened. First he stole Tom's stuff, now he's going for translated goodies; any bets that he'll again claim ignorance of who did the work?
But how in the hell can he even begin to claim ignorance? That's just ludicrous.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 20, 2015, 04:44:48 AM
It was just a matter of time before this happened. First he stole Tom's stuff, now he's going for translated goodies; any bets that he'll again claim ignorance of who did the work?
But how in the hell can he even begin to claim ignorance? That's just ludicrous.
Why engage in a debate when you (as bootlegger) can claim ignorance and avoid incriminating yourself further?
TOBIAS has nothing to gain by arguing. He knows he is a douchebag and he is happy to sell his wares to knowing and unknowing PCE fans.
I think his designs are very nice, but that doesn't excuse his douchebaggery.
TOBIAS is purely motivated by money. Sadly, too many folks buy from him, so he knows he will profit (increasingly so, it seems).
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on February 20, 2015, 04:59:42 AM
It seems maybe he has heard some of this negative response.... apparently now you can buy loose discs of Xak 3 and SO2 for like 11 euros... I dunno, still rubs me the wrong way though.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 20, 2015, 05:01:29 AM
I don't really care for the goofy booklet packaging. What's wrong with a nice jewel case?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on February 20, 2015, 05:23:40 AM
It seems maybe he has heard some of this negative response.... apparently now you can buy loose discs of Xak 3 and SO2 for like 11 euros... I dunno, still rubs me the wrong way though.
That's still a hefty markup in my opinon, though I guess if he's getting them pressed over in Europe maybe 11 euro plus international shipping is pretty close to cost.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on February 20, 2015, 06:07:45 AM
Just found the email about the new bootlegs. Who are the French, German, American and Ukrainians who helped him rip everyone off, or is he simply referencing all the people he ripped off with this round?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on February 20, 2015, 06:24:43 AM
I sent him this email to both of these addresses: inquiries@pceworks.net info@pceworks.net
Quote from: This is NightWolve - Do I need to introduce myself to you, prick ?
Hey a$$holes,
I go by the alias NightWolve - do you know who I am ? I led the translation project for Xak III, Ys IV and even helped Tru get the SO II project off the ground as well.
I bet you didn't know you should've contacted me (or Tru), morally/ethically, right ??
I bet you don't understand that public distribution of fan translation software for non-profit/fan-purposes is not just to avoid problems, but that is how you can ethically get free work hours from all parties involved in the project, from the programmer, me, to the translator, Paul England. You see, if I make it a business by commercializing/selling the work, I gotta talk business with everyone in the project, otherwise it's not fair to them that I take 100% of the earnings per commercial sale if I do what you're doing!!!!
Why then, a$$hole, do you think you should get to pocket 100% of the earnings for Xak III when I sacrificed thousands of work hours to make that game in English, when I damaged my career as a Software Engineer, losing $100,000+ in wages when I should've been working a real job, but was instead working on fan translation projects like Xak III ?? I did ALL that work for free, so a butthole like you could come along in the end, claim it, package it up in a pretty plastic, and pocket all the earnings $$$$ ???
Tell me, you cheating f--k, WHY ??? That the patches are freely distributed under non-profit terms is precisely to avoid the situation of unfairness when one guy makes and pockets 100% of the earnings, while others who actually worked on the project, don't!
That makes you a f--king cheat, do you understand that ?
Burn in hell you sorry, cheating m0therf--cker!
We know you already did this to Bonknuts and his Megaman hackulation. You pocketed 100% of the earnings for that, you spent not a single work hour developing it, and you never contacted him for permission, let alone to negotiate a royalty split agreement because, in principle, you think you should get to pocket 100% of the earnings, the sorry f--k that you are!!
A$$hole! F--k you, prick!!!!
I don't care if that makes me look bad or whatever, but that's what I feel about it!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Desh on February 20, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
I sent him this email to both of these addresses: inquiries@pceworks.net info@pceworks.net
Quote from: This is NightWolve - Do I need to introduce myself to you, prick ?
Hey a$$holes,
I go by the alias NightWolve - do you know who I am ? I led the translation project for Xak III, Ys IV and even helped Tru get the SO II project off the ground as well.
I bet you didn't know you should've contacted me (or Tru), morally/ethically, right ??
I bet you don't understand that public distribution of fan translation software for non-profit/fan-purposes is not just to avoid problems, but that is how you can ethically get free work hours from all parties involved in the project, from the programmer, me, to the translator, Paul England. You see, if I make it a business by commercializing/selling the work, I gotta talk business with everyone in the project, otherwise it's not fair to them that I take 100% of the earnings per commercial sale if I do what you're doing!!!!
Why then, a$$hole, do you think you should get to pocket 100% of the earnings for Xak III when I sacrificed thousands of work hours to make that game in English, when I damaged my career as a Software Engineer, losing $100,000+ in wages when I should've been working a real job, but was instead working on fan translation projects like Xak III ?? I did ALL that work for free, so a butthole like you could come along in the end, claim it, package it up in a pretty plastic, and pocket all the earnings $$$$ ???
Tell me, you cheating f--k, WHY ??? That the patches are freely distributed under non-profit terms is precisely to avoid the situation of unfairness when one guy makes and pockets 100% of the earnings, while others who actually worked on the project, don't!
That makes you a f--king cheat, do you understand that ?
Burn in hell you sorry, cheating m0therf--cker!
We know you already did this to Bonknuts and his Megaman hackulation. You pocketed 100% of the earnings for that, you spent not a single work hour developing it, and you never contacted him for permission, let alone to negotiate a royalty split agreement because, in principle, you think you should get to pocket 100% of the earnings, the sorry f--k that you are!!
A$$hole! F--k you, prick!!!!
I don't care if that makes me look bad or whatever, but that's what I feel about it!
Meh... I actually think you toned it down more than I would have if I were in your shoes. I wonder if you'll ever get a response.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 20, 2015, 07:10:13 AM
You should've told him how you really feel. Don't sugar coat it like that. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on February 20, 2015, 07:53:23 AM
Only way to avoid this, is to just do it ourselves. Just a matter of time before Ys IV and Dracula X get this done. Don't think for one moment its not on the back burner. I know the argument, I know it well. But lets face it, it WILL get done. Question is whether it will be done for profit, or done by us at cost.At least if we do it, some funds can go back to the folks that worked on it. Thats just my opinion.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 20, 2015, 10:31:09 AM
Only way to avoid this, is to just do it ourselves. Just a matter of time before Ys IV and Dracula X get this done. Don't think for one moment its not on the back burner. I know the argument, I know it well. But lets face it, it WILL get done. Question is whether it will be done for profit, or done by us at cost.At least if we do it, some funds can go back to the folks that worked on it. Thats just my opinion.
The only way to avoid this is to stop giving the cunt more money. Any of you that bought that Rockman, Space Fantasy Zone, or PCE Memories shit basically made it possible for him to continue this nonsense and f*ck more people over, so that is on you, whether you like it or not. The guy was already busted for being a lying scamming fraud over the Sapphire incident. People here still chose to do business with him anyway knowing the additional harm he would eventually cause to the scene, or feigning ignorance of it. Some of you still are doing business with him now as I post this. This isn't his IP to sell, nor are you entitled to it just because you think you have to have it in some pressed form.
I like some of you guys a lot, but lets be honest here, some of you bought shit from him knowing it wasn't right. I don't need to name names, you know who you f*cking are. You got what you wanted because it suited your "oooh pressed disc box sets, gimmie gimmie me me me I have to have this game on my collection shelf too" mentality. f*ck all to everyone else it may have affected or will eventually affect.
The only recourse now is to heavily put the word out, including contacting people who have been promoting his warez, like the Happy Console Gamer guy on youtube, and inform them of the situation to try to get them to stop promoting his shit. That and turn him over to the IP owners so they can take legal action if they want to do so.
Outside of that, nothing else can be done. In all honesty, half the time this place creates its own problems and 9 years later the shit has gotten old and I'm glad i dont care to f*ck with any of it anymore. Seeing a thread like this doesn't surprise me in the least. It was obviously going to happen the moment a bunch of you kliked that order button for the Memories box sets and spread the word around that he was selling them.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: poponon on February 20, 2015, 11:03:01 AM
From a n00bs perspective - This does really suck, but I agree it is unavoidable - someone will eventually do it for all fan translated projects. Personally I would never buy a reproduction game copy, and barely "collect" myself - I just play games. I think if you guys don't want to see this happen in the future, you need to include plans to sell/distribute reproductions as part of the entire project. If ethics is an issue, like Bernie said, sell them at cost (maybe include development in the cost).
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SephirothTNH on February 20, 2015, 11:12:39 AM
You should've told him how you really feel. Don't sugar coat it like that. :mrgreen:
Agreed. Message seems pretty tame all things considered. I'm really sorry this has happened to you.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: WoodyXP on February 20, 2015, 11:13:36 AM
I hope Tobias gets herpes.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on February 20, 2015, 11:15:32 AM
That really sucks, I feel for you. For projects still in the making or future projects, is there a way to cover the patches with some sort of license that forbids commercial use?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: VenomMacbeth on February 20, 2015, 11:16:02 AM
I've gotten wiser about repros recently, and after making my own Metal Warriors cart, I can honestly say that DIY is the way to go. That way, nobody gets screwed but yourself...but not as screwed as you'd be buying an original copy & paying out the earholes for it.
Come to think of it, I might repro a couple more SNES games & raffle one off here. Any suggestions for games? Drac X, right? ;)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 20, 2015, 11:21:02 AM
Just a thought, but on your Emerald Dragon translation, I would make sure to include a new title screen with something like "This is a fan translation provided for free. If you purchased this then you ripped off by cretinous scum" or something
Seriously, I think this should be done. Something like, don't buy or sell this translation out of respect for the people who made it. It could appear before the title screen, for a couple of seconds, like an FBI warning in movies.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: quoth09 on February 20, 2015, 11:35:48 AM
I haven't posted here in a long time, and it's mainly due to the mentality that most of you people have over here, including the mentality that what this worthless f*ck is doing, is ok in any regard. It's not. A lot of stuff you people do over here is NOT ok with me, or others, and no one speaks up. I barely visit any gaming forum for anything anymore because I want damn near nothing to do with half the things going on in the gaming community as a whole, especially another forum that I won't bother speaking the name of here. Your behavior makes me want to sell all my games, but that's just a side note to what is going on here. Everyone always talks about preservation and collecting, but in reality all most of you care about is money and your ego, Tobias included. I think the whole Sapphire stunt and the letter should have been a clue about that a long time ago and he should have been shunned after, but most of you through it was great. -barf-
Funny how all of you are bitching now that he put out translated discs without permission, but you had no qualms about him ripping off Toei with Godzilla (including the music stolen/pirated), or any of the other games that he re-issued under his crappy label.
You didn't care because it wasn't something you worked at, wasn't something you owned the IP to or copyright, and was nothing more to you people than games that you could now 'get cheaper'. I'm not focusing on the translator that did whatever he did (that really sucks that this happened to him), I'm talking about all of you. None of you did anything to report him to whomever owns Bonk (Konami?), Dungeon Explorer II (Atlus), or any of the other games, which all have still valid copyrights, and now he's gone off and done it to something that some of you had a hand in. You claim you care about the games and the system, but really, you don't. Even worse are the passive 'I just play games' people. It's equivalent to someone saying, 'oh I just don't like people', all the while stabbing people in the face with a large knife, and no one calls the cops.
With that being said, what's done is done. No company is going to give a shit about a measly 100 or even 200 something copies of an almost 30 year old game that they have no plans to do anything with ever. That's why he won't get busted and why nothing will happen to him, short of a petty cease and desist on one or two titles at most, if even. It's the same reason why Nintendo hasn't taken any action against anything going on with all the repros on the NES/FC or SNES/SFC, or Sega on the Genesis/Megadrive. Cost of legal action versus lost profits.
This is what happens when you don't get rid of a growing weed in a lawn. I'm sure all of you will be looking forward to PCE Works future releases, and he will likely do Ys IV since you mentioned it now as well. Will you contact Nihon Falcom when that happens? Nah, probably not.
Also, all you people saying, he should put a new title or maybe put something:
before the title screen, for a couple of seconds, like an FBI warning in movies.
Learn the difference between translations and coding, and come back to that thought.
Back to your normal conversations amongst yourselves, about 'wow that sucks dude, I have ideas and things, and hey I got this but you don't'.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 20, 2015, 11:47:30 AM
He doesn't even know wtf that is. I'm fairly positive he is referring to the worthless f*cking Neo forums. You know, the one that's basking in the $30,000 Aero Fighters 3 scam and whatever other garbage they have going on on any given Thursday.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 20, 2015, 12:00:48 PM
Wow, this really sucks that someone is making presses of all of these translations and hacks without any consent to your team, Nightwolve.
I agree with the other comments that were suggested before such as setting up an operation to press these discs yourself or from a few groups willing to do it in the community that would be sold under a store/community label and to include a disclaimer for the patches that are released going forward that state that if you paid any money for this game, you have been cheated out of your money by a repro-seller.
What I meant by community label, I guess I should explain more on. As I am really into the MSX Computer hobby, as a community of MSXers there are really only a handful of trusted online shops that produce new MSX games. They will write the roms to cartridges, and produce nice looking boxes and manuals. The biggest online shops are the MSX Cartridge Shop (http://msxcartridgeshop.com/), Matra/Bitwise (http://msx-universe.com/), and Repro Factory MSX Shop (http://www.ebsoft.fr/shop/) and one called Sunrise, which is now defunct after probably roughly 15 years of activity. Everyone in the community knows and trusts these operations as the folks that run these places are known members of the community and reproduce these with permission from the original authors.
But even the MSX community will still see repros on eBay or the Dutch auction site called Marketplaats.nl. Stuff like Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake will be sold as a Repro and the community does everything they can to report it in a thread and contact the site that is allowing them to sell this.
Now that this is happening in your community more frequently, I personally feel that perhaps it's time you all had a system similar to what the MSX guys are doing, a club where everyone knows your name and knows when something pops up that is not legitimate. I guess the main difference is that the MSX guys are not selling patched software and new software or ports to the system, but I'm sure a similar concept could be done.
Another angle that would make it pretty legal... I think.. would be to simply sell the discs, artwork and case along with a patch that is not the one floating out on the internet, but rather a complete one that perhaps replaces that disclaimer with one that states a different disclaimer such as your release group or pressing label group and logo.
Hmm, I guess an example for Xak III would be something like this. This Repro guy Tobias currently has an unfinished patch that could be made finished with the inclusion of some script adjustments, voice acting for the cutscenes and ending of the game, and distributed in two versions:
Version 1, for free use and distributed over the internet with a big fat disclaimer that says all the stuff you want about this not being something that should be reproduced and sold for money and if you bought it, you are a sucker.
And, Version 2, which is nothing more than a nice disc press, artwork and case without the game burned on the disc and sold through a community label and site with instructions for how to patch the game and an official non-internet version of the patch included along with it either on a separate disc, or emailed directly from your community label/website contact through an invoice number that removes the free internet disclaimer in lieu of "Nightwolve Productions" and a logo. The user who then bought this can follow these instructions and write the rom to the disc themselves. The invoice thing might be important for collecting their contact info and name so that you have a record of their purchase order with you and if say their disc messes up or doesn't write correctly, perhaps an arrangement can be made to have a new disc mailed out with or without the game pre-patched and installed.
I'm know I'm kind of rambling here, but I think if your community worked together on this, these could lead to some definite methods of fighting back against these Repro guys who are using stuff without your consent and permission.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bob on February 20, 2015, 12:06:23 PM
I haven't posted here in a long time, and it's mainly due to the mentality that most of you people have over here, including the mentality that what this worthless f*ck is doing, is ok in any regard. It's not. A lot of stuff you people do over here is NOT ok with me, or others, and no one speaks up. I barely visit any gaming forum for anything anymore because I want damn near nothing to do with half the things going on in the gaming community as a whole, especially another forum that I won't bother speaking the name of here. Your behavior makes me want to sell all my games, but that's just a side note to what is going on here. Everyone always talks about preservation and collecting, but in reality all most of you care about is money and your ego, Tobias included. I think the whole Sapphire stunt and the letter should have been a clue about that a long time ago and he should have been shunned after, but most of you through it was great. -barf-
Funny how all of you are bitching now that he put out translated discs without permission, but you had no qualms about him ripping off Toei with Godzilla (including the music stolen/pirated), or any of the other games that he re-issued under his crappy label.
You didn't care because it wasn't something you worked at, wasn't something you owned the IP to or copyright, and was nothing more to you people than games that you could now 'get cheaper'. I'm not focusing on the translator that did whatever he did (that really sucks that this happened to him), I'm talking about all of you. None of you did anything to report him to whomever owns Bonk (Konami?), Dungeon Explorer II (Atlus), or any of the other games, which all have still valid copyrights, and now he's gone off and done it to something that some of you had a hand in. You claim you care about the games and the system, but really, you don't. Even worse are the passive 'I just play games' people. It's equivalent to someone saying, 'oh I just don't like people', all the while stabbing people in the face with a large knife, and no one calls the cops.
With that being said, what's done is done. No company is going to give a shit about a measly 100 or even 200 something copies of an almost 30 year old game that they have no plans to do anything with ever. That's why he won't get busted and why nothing will happen to him, short of a petty cease and desist on one or two titles at most, if even. It's the same reason why Nintendo hasn't taken any action against anything going on with all the repros on the NES/FC or SNES/SFC, or Sega on the Genesis/Megadrive. Cost of legal action versus lost profits.
This is what happens when you don't get rid of a growing weed in a lawn. I'm sure all of you will be looking forward to PCE Works future releases, and he will likely do Ys IV since you mentioned it now as well. Will you contact Nihon Falcom when that happens? Nah, probably not.
Also, all you people saying, he should put a new title or maybe put something:
And Xak III's translation is wrong in places, too, and it doesn't have the spoken parts translated.
NightWolve, man, I'll translate the spoken parts in Xak III. We could spruce up Paul England's script a bit and do a re-release.
Hey if you guys do that, sign me up for LE autographed copy pre-order for sure. I'm pretty sure my friend from the MSX community and the original translator of Xak I for MSX would want a copy too.
I can probably help with beta testing it on real hardware as well since you might say I'm a pretty big Xak fan. (http://retro-type.com/xyz/xak.htm)
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Desh on February 20, 2015, 01:07:40 PM
Only way to avoid this, is to just do it ourselves. Just a matter of time before Ys IV and Dracula X get this done. Don't think for one moment its not on the back burner. I know the argument, I know it well. But lets face it, it WILL get done. Question is whether it will be done for profit, or done by us at cost.At least if we do it, some funds can go back to the folks that worked on it. Thats just my opinion.
The only way to avoid this is to stop giving the cunt more money. Any of you that bought that Rockman, Space Fantasy Zone, or PCE Memories shit basically made it possible for him to continue this nonsense and f*ck more people over, so that is on you, whether you like it or not. The guy was already busted for being a lying scamming fraud over the Sapphire incident. People here still chose to do business with him anyway knowing the additional harm he would eventually cause to the scene, or feigning ignorance of it. Some of you still are doing business with him now as I post this. This isn't his IP to sell, nor are you entitled to it just because you think you have to have it in some pressed form.
I like some of you guys a lot, but lets be honest here, some of you bought shit from him knowing it wasn't right. I don't need to name names, you know who you f*cking are. You got what you wanted because it suited your "oooh pressed disc box sets, gimmie gimmie me me me I have to have this game on my collection shelf too" mentality. f*ck all to everyone else it may have affected or will eventually affect.
The only recourse now is to heavily put the word out, including contacting people who have been promoting his warez, like the Happy Console Gamer guy on youtube, and inform them of the situation to try to get them to stop promoting his shit. That and turn him over to the IP owners so they can take legal action if they want to do so.
Outside of that, nothing else can be done. In all honesty, half the time this place creates its own problems and 9 years later the shit has gotten old and I'm glad i dont care to f*ck with any of it anymore. Seeing a thread like this doesn't surprise me in the least. It was obviously going to happen the moment a bunch of you kliked that order button for the Memories box sets and spread the word around that he was selling them.
THIS! I can't believe there wasn't a big shit storm when the threads were made announcing these boxed sets. There were quite a few peeps on here excited to purchase them and even give ideas on what games should have been included. However, I would also be lying to myself if I said I never played a "boot leg". I've made many translated titles for NES and some of the Uber expensive titles for TGCD. I made these for my own personal use though, until that day comes that a I can afford $500 or whatever the hell Dynastic Hero sells for these days.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 20, 2015, 01:32:06 PM
And Xak III's translation is wrong in places, too, and it doesn't have the spoken parts translated.
NightWolve, man, I'll translate the spoken parts in Xak III. We could spruce up Paul England's script a bit and do a re-release.
Hey if you guys do that, sign me up for LE autographed copy pre-order for sure. I'm pretty sure my friend from the MSX community and the original translator of Xak I for MSX would want a copy too.
I can probably help with beta testing it on real hardware as well since you might say I'm a pretty big Xak fan. (http://retro-type.com/xyz/xak.htm)
-Thomas
I appreciate your enthusiasm and your offer to help, but personally, I don't want any of my translations to be pressed at all. If the hackers want it, I might be flexible, but if it were up to me, I wouldn't allow it, period.
You know, I do want people to enjoy the games in every way possible. That's why I've also translated manuals, and even some promotional materials. But when money and questionable ethics enter the picture, things stop being fun for me. My own ideal for the community is people playing sharpied CD-Rs and appreciating them for what they are, as well as what they aren't.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 20, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
He doesn't even know wtf that is. I'm fairly positive he is referring to the worthless f*cking Neo forums. You know, the one that's basking in the $30,000 Aero Fighters 3 scam and whatever other garbage they have going on on any given Thursday.
LOL :-({|=
You forgot to mention Waseem Daker in your whining about the place :lol:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 20, 2015, 02:33:55 PM
My beef is mainly with Tobias making a profit off anybody. Whether it be Godzilla or Xak 3. If he sold these for a few doll hairs, that'd be different. But he's selling these for what, something like $70 IIRC? He's making dough on these things, & that sucks. If he made an original game of his own, more power to him, but he didn't.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 20, 2015, 02:37:48 PM
And Xak III's translation is wrong in places, too, and it doesn't have the spoken parts translated.
NightWolve, man, I'll translate the spoken parts in Xak III. We could spruce up Paul England's script a bit and do a re-release.
Hey if you guys do that, sign me up for LE autographed copy pre-order for sure. I'm pretty sure my friend from the MSX community and the original translator of Xak I for MSX would want a copy too.
I can probably help with beta testing it on real hardware as well since you might say I'm a pretty big Xak fan. (http://retro-type.com/xyz/xak.htm)
-Thomas
I appreciate your enthusiasm and your offer to help, but personally, I don't want any of my translations to be pressed at all. If the hackers want it, I might be flexible, but if it were up to me, I wouldn't allow it, period.
You know, I do want people to enjoy the games in every way possible. That's why I've also translated manuals, and even some promotional materials. But when money and questionable ethics enter the picture, things stop being fun for me. My own ideal for the community is people playing sharpied CD-Rs and appreciating them for what they are, as well as what they aren't.
I definitely understand your position on this. I guess I just think there could be some alternatives so that you can have both the sharpie marker written title on a freshly baked cd-r experience, yet also a collectible experience for those that really want them that is fully supported by the community and translation/hacking team, even if it's only sold to cover the costs of production and a few bucks for a sandwich and a coke. I guess my vision is to have it both ways and an effective model that could easily counteract the moves of a non-ethical reproduction house.
In any case, my offer to help as a beta tester stands regardless of what happens release-wise. I've already played it through once through an emulator, and I'd love to play a version 2.0 final on real hardware.
Also, I wrote to PCE Works asking them to discontinue their projects that they have not received permission to distribute and explained to them that if they really did love PCE and wanted to become a legitimate distribution house, they should consider turning a new leaf and actually working with the original translation teams. I pretty much explained to them that the ball is in their court, but if they did not stop distributing Xak III, I would be making an announcement at my Xak website as well as at other forum communities that I frequent regarding what they are doing and to not support them.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: geise on February 20, 2015, 02:55:03 PM
To be clear, I was not contacted in any way, shape or form about Xak III... SO II is Tru's project mainly by agreement, though I helped him start it ages ago, and is outside of my concern. Xak III is my issue and the fact that this f*ck is likely getting ready to press Ys IV down the road, and so my hopes of eventually doing it myself someday, the right way (partly), by contacting members that can be, taking votes, working out deals, redubbing any voice actor who refused inclusion (e.g. like BurntLasagna's brother for a soldier character I'd definitely have to redub), etc. that's all dashed as I don't think I could ever catch up to this guy's expertise in doing this and I'm far too busy to even try this year! He definitely thinks he should get to do it and pocket 100% of the earnings!
As many know, I'm not a fan credo fanatic and against the concept in principle, but sneaking around and doing it in secret when you COULD contact the people's fan translation work you are using, is where there's an issue for me! Avoiding the company which would want $5k-$10k-$15k in licensing fees is understandable and would mean no bootlegs/repros would ever happen, so escaping that, I understand.
The other thing, this MOTHER f*ckER never donated a single penny, a single f*ckING penny ever, the f*ckING prick that he is! If you're in this forum, Tobias, f*ck you a$$hole! f*ck you, you piece of f*ckING scum!!
What a piece of f*cking shit.
I also have to add I agree 100% with what the Prof said. I was surprised to read certain forum members that were even considering purchasing any of this shit.
Oh and Quoth09 welcome back. We missed you! It seems like forever! Thanks for thinking that the forum as a whole is based off your ideas of a few people posting their thoughts. Again welcome back.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on February 20, 2015, 03:17:59 PM
I'm so glad I haven't bought anything from him. What a low blow. I guess that's a lesson everyone on PCEFX learned, while people here were arguing if we should fund bootleg pressings or not, Tobias just went and did it without asking for authorization to anyone... Now that his latest scheme has hit closer to home no one can ignore the damage this causes for our community. Myself included.
EDIT: Prof you're a respected old member and with good reason. Could not agree more with everything you said.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: roflmao on February 20, 2015, 04:53:27 PM
The only way to avoid this is to stop giving the cunt more money. Any of you that bought that Rockman, Space Fantasy Zone, or PCE Memories shit basically made it possible for him to continue this nonsense and f*ck more people over, so that is on you, whether you like it or not. The guy was already busted for being a lying scamming fraud over the Sapphire incident. People here still chose to do business with him anyway knowing the additional harm he would eventually cause to the scene, or feigning ignorance of it. Some of you still are doing business with him now as I post this. This isn't his IP to sell, nor are you entitled to it just because you think you have to have it in some pressed form.
I like some of you guys a lot, but lets be honest here, some of you bought shit from him knowing it wasn't right. I don't need to name names, you know who you f*cking are. You got what you wanted because it suited your "oooh pressed disc box sets, gimmie gimmie me me me I have to have this game on my collection shelf too" mentality. f*ck all to everyone else it may have affected or will eventually affect.
The only recourse now is to heavily put the word out, including contacting people who have been promoting his warez, like the Happy Console Gamer guy on youtube, and inform them of the situation to try to get them to stop promoting his shit. That and turn him over to the IP owners so they can take legal action if they want to do so.
Outside of that, nothing else can be done. In all honesty, half the time this place creates its own problems and 9 years later the shit has gotten old and I'm glad i dont care to f*ck with any of it anymore. Seeing a thread like this doesn't surprise me in the least. It was obviously going to happen the moment a bunch of you kliked that order button for the Memories box sets and spread the word around that he was selling them.
This. 100%.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on February 20, 2015, 05:49:00 PM
NOTE:
All future translations should have a warning disclaimer in the code that says IF YOU PAID FOR THIS DISC, YOU GOT f*ckED.
etc.
f*ck this guy. I hope he gets his dick caught in a car door.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 20, 2015, 05:50:10 PM
He doesn't even know wtf that is. I'm fairly positive he is referring to the worthless f*cking Neo forums. You know, the one that's basking in the $30,000 Aero Fighters 3 scam and whatever other garbage they have going on on any given Thursday.
LOL :-({|=
You forgot to mention Waseem Daker in your whining about the place :lol:
Its not whining, its stating the f*cking obvious. The place is a shit hole. Always has been, always will be.
Also, I wrote to PCE Works asking them to discontinue their projects that they have not received permission to distribute....
Never going to happen. The stupid cunt probably needs another hundred XRGB and Extron units or something, so the presses shall never stop... Oh yeah, you guys probably don't know about that.
http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
Because when one upscaling setup is not enough, you have to buy them all....
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: mackdanger on February 20, 2015, 07:07:17 PM
Wait, so the guy doing those PCE pressings is Fudoh? Or is he just running ads for the guy doing the pressings on his site?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 20, 2015, 08:15:56 PM
Wait, so the guy doing those PCE pressings is Fudoh? Or is he just running ads for the guy doing the pressings on his site?
Its the same guy. Tobias "Fudoh" Reich is the name he goes by. Don't know if its actually his real name given he also attaches said name to his illegal activities. He may just toss it out there on all his sites as an alias.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SuperDeadite on February 20, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Yes this is the same guy that does all that scanline and video processor stuff.
Also I love how on the page's upcoming list Bonk 3 CD is going to be 49 Euros, while Godzilla will be 29 Euros. Why the hell would Bonk be more expensive to produce? ROLF, he just knows Bonk will sell more, hence may as well charge more. Never bought anything from him myself either.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 21, 2015, 12:21:17 AM
FATIGUE: I am glad Prof posted because I was too exhausted to post anything here after the last thread.
I was going to copy and paste from the other thread, but why bother?
Prof said it.
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
(sorry if this hurts your feelings)
You bought from Tobias/Fudoh, knowing his only motive was profit. Knowing that it frustrated our small band of indie developers/hackers/coder and threatened current/future hacking/translation projects.
You are literally providing Tobias/Fudoh his lifeblood. He will continue as long as it is profitable.
A Poem (As subtle as a punch in the face)
it looks nice so very, very nice on the shelf
gimmee superficial packaging (now) instead of PCE hacks/translations/subs/dubs (in the future)
short-sighted, but it looks nice so very, very nice on the shelf
suck my left one
GENUINE PROBLEM: When Tobias/Fudoh receives "mainstream" coverage from "retro gamers" who have a large audience...
YOU KNOW THAT ANY MAINSTREAM ATTENTION FROM, say, HAPPYSHITEGAMER and other "YubeTube personalities" must have increased sales. We are small community here, but Happyshitegamer has a huge audience. Even if only a fraction of folks in his audience have a passing interest in PCE/TG-16 and have a few $$$ to spare, it is a much bigger pool of potential customers than the handful of folks here.
I HAVE SURVIVED WITHOUT PLAYING MANY GAMES, EVER:
For the folks who "JUST GOTTA HAVE IT"...well, I can't convince you otherwise.
There are games I haven't played since launch...and somehow I have managed to survive.
One day, if I really become infatuated with a title, I'll burn a CD-R...otherwise, I have plenty of other games to enjoy.
Yes this is the same guy that does all that scanline and video processor stuff.
Also I love how on the page's upcoming list Bonk 3 CD is going to be 49 Euros, while Godzilla will be 29 Euros. Why the hell would Bonk be more expensive to produce? ROLF, he just knows Bonk will sell more, hence may as well charge more. Never bought anything from him myself either.
I know :) There is no subtletity to it...
His motive is profit, and it punches you in the face.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 21, 2015, 02:26:54 AM
He doesn't even know wtf that is. I'm fairly positive he is referring to the worthless f*cking Neo forums. You know, the one that's basking in the $30,000 Aero Fighters 3 scam and whatever other garbage they have going on on any given Thursday.
LOL :-({|=
You forgot to mention Waseem Daker in your whining about the place :lol:
Its not whining, its stating the f*cking obvious. The place is a shit hole. Always has been, always will be.
No.
You may not like a few members there but to say the whole forums is a shit hole makes you look childish. It would be like saying because Evil EvoIX posts here the whole forum is full of dicks.
Grow up.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sadler on February 21, 2015, 02:37:45 AM
I'm somewhat hesistant to post this, but I emailed him too.
Quote
Tobias,
You know I'm a big fan of your work. I've been an unapologetic defender of SFZ, Sapphire and your box sets. Having said that, this set of disks is unforgivable. I'm pretty pissed you'd do this again. It was wrong when you appropriated Bonknuts' work, and it's just as wrong to steal Nightwolve's work. There are very few people that both care enough about the system and have the skillset necessary to provide translations. Why wouldn't you at least contact the guys that made these possible? You are alienating a lot of people with this and I won't be buying. If you honestly give a shit about "PCE memories" I hope you take a step back and reach out to fix this situation.
Sadler
He wrote back:
Quote
Hi Sadler,
thanks for your email (honestly!) and your concerns.
Eventually it's a balancing act. We're talking to NightWolve already.
In the meantime we're offering the translated discs for free to everybody.
Best Tobias
Nightwolve, can you confirm he's spoken to you and is trying to make things right?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bob on February 21, 2015, 02:43:37 AM
He doesn't even know wtf that is. I'm fairly positive he is referring to the worthless f*cking Neo forums. You know, the one that's basking in the $30,000 Aero Fighters 3 scam and whatever other garbage they have going on on any given Thursday.
LOL :-({|=
You forgot to mention Waseem Daker in your whining about the place :lol:
Its not whining, its stating the f*cking obvious. The place is a shit hole.
+100
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 21, 2015, 02:49:07 AM
Since there are a number of people here who have contributed to the site (not me, I haven't been here long enough :wink:) and are members there, what's that say about this place.
If you want to post individuals who are a$$holes, fine but to say the site is a shit hole is laughable.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: richc on February 21, 2015, 02:58:12 AM
Saw this posted in a PC engine group on FB. Reading back I've got to say this is eye opening. I always thought he translated and made those games himself. I can totally see how that guy would have a huge chilling effect on the people/teams that put the effort into translating /patching/ect on them.
I think it was said before, but if this guy doesn't know much about coding, best thing to do is to put some kind of disclaimer in the rom.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bonknuts on February 21, 2015, 05:19:19 AM
I think it was said before, but if this guy doesn't know much about coding, best thing to do is to put some kind of disclaimer in the rom.
He'd just probably hire someone to hack it out. I mean, he hires someone to do the cover art and such.
Wait, he doesn't even do the art/layout design himself?
I thought he at least did that.
Damn.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: technozombie on February 21, 2015, 07:25:22 AM
Quote
(C) Tobias "Fudoh" Reich, 2006~2013
Does anyone find that that little copyright C to be extremely hilarious?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gentlegamer on February 21, 2015, 08:08:58 AM
Since Xak III and Startling Odyssey II have been available as fan translations for some while, we want to give everybody the chance to obtain these discs for free. You can get a set with the two CD-Rom² discs (no packaging, no manuals). The discs will get packaged in sturdy carboard envelopes to ensure safe travel around the globe. While stock lasts (100 bundles available).
So now he's going to give the discs away?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 21, 2015, 09:07:55 AM
Since there are a number of people here who have contributed to the site (not me, I haven't been here long enough :wink:) and are members there, what's that say about this place.
If you want to post individuals who are a$$holes, fine but to say the site is a shit hole is laughable.
You may not like a few members there but to say the whole forums is a shit hole makes you look childish. It would be like saying because Evil EvoIX posts here the whole forum is full of dicks.
Grow up.
You like it so much, keep those blinders on and get the f*ck out of here and go hang out there full time. The place is a shit hole. It has a bad rep for a reason. It spent like what, 14 years earning it? The few good members there have been far outweighed by the bad ones and their actions on a consistent basis. Most of the admins there over the years have been involved in scams or in one particular case, open about their drug dealing at one time or another.
And then there are the normal scammers lurking the sales threads. Then you have all the infighting, far worse then it is here. I have been on that forum before. I have known others there who left and went over to Klov/Vaps, or are still there but mainly lurk now because the place has gotten so shitty. I also know most of the long timers here who post there. They are solid guys, and a credit to this forum.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bartre on February 21, 2015, 09:48:58 AM
so..................... why get our own printed? I figure you can get these printed and shipped for 11 euro with a buck or two in your pocket.
NightWolve - You want to make this happen? I just need your ok and I'll make it happen.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on February 21, 2015, 10:41:01 AM
According to Denic.de (http://denic.de/), Hazard-city.de is registered to:
Quote
Domaininhaber: Tobias William Reich Adresse: Ysenburgstrasse 3 PLZ: 80634 Ort: München Land: DE
You can report complaints about the website to the host:
However, since PCE Works/Memories is hosted on a wordpress.com subdomain, the host in question would be wordpress.com or automattic.com for copyright complaints, etc.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 21, 2015, 10:42:11 AM
Tobias also wrote back to my email as well. It's not much different from the one that was posted earlier by Sadler:
Quote
Hi Thomas,
thanks for your email and your concerns.
It's a balancing act. We're talking to NightWolve already.
In the meantime we're offering the translated discs for free to everybody.
Best Tobias
At least he claims to be working to try and make this right... I think? But I guess we'll find out when Nightwolve fills us in on the details.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on February 21, 2015, 10:57:54 AM
Tobias also wrote back to my email as well. It's not much different from the one that was posted earlier by Sadler:
Quote
Hi Thomas,
thanks for your email and your concerns.
It's a balancing act. We're talking to NightWolve already.
In the meantime we're offering the translated discs for free to everybody.
Best Tobias
At least he claims to be working to try and make this right... I think? But I guess we'll find out when Nightwolve fills us in on the details.
-Thomas
He has claimed all kinds of random things over the years.
Did you know that the copies of Sapphire he has for sale are actually the second official pressing done by Hudson Soft themselves? He confirmed this true fact himself by walking into Hudson HQ in Japan and asking their 2006 PC Engine publishing team.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 21, 2015, 11:28:53 AM
You like it so much, keep those blinders on and get the f*ck out of here and go hang out there full time.
Get the f*ck out...you know who you sound like don't you :lol:
I do hang out there (since '09), here and many forums. When you have social skills you can do that. :wink:
Why are you trying to run off new people with a different opinion than yours? Again, you know who you sound like don't you.
As you just proved there are jerks on every forum not just that site.
Did you use the same username there? I'd like to see what you did to be treated so poorly.
No one here asked you to white knight the Neo forums. You love it there, we get it, so stfu about it already. This is PCEFX, not the f*cking Neo forums. You want to talk up the Neo forums, go there and do it. No one here gives a flying f*ck. Most of us old timers here were members there way way before you considered joining that joint.
And for the record, a few from that forum, including a couple of its admins, did come over to try to attack this forum once years back, and a couple of its other respected members have tried to troll this forum before. Its all old history no one cares to regurgitate.
To put it bluntly, you're a noob. You simply don't know, and no one here owes you any detailed explanations about anything, because in the scheme of things, who the f*ck are you? Nobody, that's who. You've been here barely a year, and only on the Neo forum since like 2009. Try putting in 8-10 years here of decent to solid contributions, and then maybe your opinion will carry some weight with me.
As for me trying to run people off for differing opinions, you fired first shots kiddo. You responded to my post first. I'm just telling you how it is. Stay, go, I give no f*cks about which you choose to do. But you want to keep white knighting and derailing this thread, and I will stay all over your ass for it.
EDIT: And yes, I have been here longer then 2011, so don't bother bringing that up in your soon to be typed retort. I took some time off. Ive been here long time. Now back to Dark Souls 2. I have xp waiting to be grinded. GG.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: toymachine78 on February 21, 2015, 12:07:30 PM
Y'all ho's got drama!!!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 21, 2015, 12:09:28 PM
When I want information about a specific system, I like to go to the source. These forums have a ton of knowledge and until these last few posts, helpful people. I've used Turbokon and I support the homebrew scene.
Reading up on the Tobias bs and then your comments about another forum reminded me of what's wrong with the net.
I'm not trying to white knight anything and apologize for derailing the thread and ruffling feathers (that's what Fighting Street is for).
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on February 21, 2015, 02:57:17 PM
Hi Sadler, thanks for your email (honestly!) and your concerns. Eventually it's a balancing act. We're talking to NightWolve already. In the meantime we're offering the translated discs for free to everybody.
Nightwolve, can you confirm he's spoken to you and is trying to make things right?
Yeah, I got this response:
Quote from: Tobias
Hi,
thanks for your email (honestly!) and sorry to hear that you feel like this. Of course there's little we can say to remedy the situation as is, still let me tell you little more about our point of view and - hey - maybe there's some common ground we can find.
Let me first comment on the general availability of a game like this.
For years (literally, I think first at least 6 or 7 years ago) I have been approached to do a packaging concept along with manual for the game. Obviously to go along with your work on the game. Over the years this piled up to dozens of requests - with Xak topping the list above everything else (which I don't really get, but ok).
It never happened, mainly due to the very reasons you've listed yourself last night. When last year we teamed up to do a line of PCE repros we created a list of titles based on popularity and especially on past and recent feedback. Again Xak ended up on the list (obviously), not without at least a few concerns left.
But what dramatically changed over the past years is the general market and availability of translated repros for all kinds of systems. And with that definitely the perception and standards of the users changed as well. I doubt that there's a single SNES RPG, which has been translated at some point, that you cannot purchase on a repro cart within a heartbeat. Moral scruples aside, if one repro maker won't offer it, a dozen others will.
What does anybody gain if you (not you personally, but generally speaking) keep telling people that a game isn't available, while it is available everywhere on the web? You're segregating users. You grant emu users access to your work, but deny it to users who don't emulate, don't download, don't burn CDs, no matter how much they admire your work.
This is what we think - as a team - not about your work in particular, but in general about all the translations, rom hacks, alternations and everything else that the community creates. Every user should be able to choose for himself. Download it for free or buy a nice looking package to put it on a shelf.
Second there's of course the monetization.
And let me assure you, I hear you on this. And I would certainly agree to we should (morally) have contacted you beforehand. But as unethical as it might sound, I have seen too many licensing negotiations and deals gone wrong - eventually just endangering a project from the start.
You're easy to say that we should have contacted you, but to tell you what ? To present you with a fait accompli ? This wouldn't have made a difference to your standpoint. We honestly believe that it's easier to have a product to show that people really love first. For the very reasons outlined before.
Usually when you start paying people or agree on royalties, repros end up being so expensive that only the elitists can afford them. If you have a look on sites like Nintendoage or Atariage where single game repros end up being $100+ just because they need to recover the costs of a proto purchase. This doesn't help anybody.
Obviously you have an idea on what money we are making with a repro release like this, but I can do the math for you (if needed) and you will see there's practically no money in a limited run like this. This changes when a game's selling well and you end up a doing another run, but we're far from this.
We're not against sharing, but I hardly see a way to keep it fair for both sides, while not endangering a release at all. The margin for negotiation is thin and the problems start when one party isn't able to see that.
>From what I gather you had your share of bad experiences before with XSeed using one of your translations for a commercial release (sorry if I got that wrong, I just skimmed the google hits). That's bad - but you make it sound as if this (Xak) was the same. I guess you agree that you cannot compare a 50,000 pcs run to a 100 pcs run.
We would very much like to come to an agreement, but when you lament about a $100,000 loss for doing a (free) translation like this, that's a non-starter. On a commercial release with 100,000 copies $1 a pop would be fair, but what does a $1 a pop accomplish on a 100 piece edition ? But please prove us wrong. Tell us what your idea of a fair agreement would look like or would have looked like.
When we announced the project yesterday, we got two emails in the same tone - out of a several dozens not giving a f**k and admiring the product instead. Still these two emails (along with yours) are the ones that hurt and the ones you want to make it right for.
So, let's find a common ground. Don't fight the users.
For a start we will make the games available for everybody for free. Free discs, free shipping as stock lasts. Allow users to enjoy YOUR work on their classic hardware and allow users (who wish to) to pay a premium to get our packaging and print work.
Please let us continue to talk about this! A little less emotion maybe compared to yesterday's email would be nice though.
With good faith and best regards Tobias, Shlomo, Vasyl, Hubert.
I haven't decided how to respond yet. If I take a cut, I have to track down Paul England (Xak III translator) and offer him a %, so I gotta represent him too. If I tell him [Tobias] to f--k off, he pockets 100% as planned and obviously preferred by the way he's already lowballing it to a $1 a pop... As we know from his past, he's a known liar that pressed Sapphire bootlegs/counterfeits and lyingly tried to pass them off as originals, both to survive eBay's standards/regulations and to maximize profit, etc. Already this response doesn't come off as honest to me, so not a totally positive sign, but I understand he's totally giving away the loose CDs for free now as a result of my "charming" nastygram, so eh, there's some conciliatory action at least. :P I expected him to either ignore me or flip me the bird, so I am somewhat surprised!
Ya know, if I had to do it over again, back then when I was younger and had more energy (Xak III got going about 13 years ago, project started in ~December 2001), I'd try like a GoFundMe or Kickstarter fundraising pitch and what not - those sites weren't around back then, but yeah. So the pitch would be something like, "Hey, do you wanna see Dragon Slayer II translated?" Level 1 Fundraising Goal say $5000 to pay for me and any needed co-programmers and a translator to produce an unlicensed English translation software patch. Level 2 an additional $x,xxx ($5k-$15k) to fundraise for an official license if possible to be able to distribute it with the full game itself, either digital download as well or fancy plastic, etc.
I didn't even have a Paypal icon for donations most of that early period, I added it in 2004, and the first donation came a year later on February 2005 from France! Heh, so viva la France I say even with some sarcasm. ;) I still know the guy (adol1976), too.
Anyway, I did get messaged with a show of concern about Emerald Dragon. I wouldn't sort of rage quit over something like this. In fact, I'm used to it, as well as other forms of abuse by Ys F.A.N.s like libeling/demonizing on 4chan/GameFAQs/Romhackinghacks.net/Ancient Land of Ys/etc., extortion threats, a creepy sort of monitoring over the years with "cyber-shadowboxing" (e.g. omgfloofy/Kirsten Miller, Spinner8, Kitsune Sniper, Psycho John Schizomaniak of HG101 who caught a libel lawsuit for such behavior with people who weren't gonna stand for it!), etc.!
Here's the thing, we all got baggage, myself included, even Tru who was mentioned regarding SO II. Here's a list of similar things by people I knew, unlike Tobias:
1) In October 2002, someone caught Tru selling a CD-R of Xak III on eBay for $5 bucks and messaged me about it. That damaged our friendship, and we stopped speaking to each other for years. He used to run a CD-R backup business after all like Ninja was offering to do not that long ago. Tru had all the popular games ready for $5 each, and he had customers back then because in an era of 56 kbps modems and buggy burner software and hardware, there was plenty demand!
Some good came later though, he apologized, we made up for the most part, and at some point, he voiced interest in becoming like me in terms of translation projects, so I gave up SO II as apart of my umbrella. I gave him a script extraction in my translation software, taught him the principles behind things and so forth and sent him on his way. He eventually produced a patch, although the font is 16x16 and he never recruited a real human translator, so I can't speak to the quality of the work. SignOfZeta said it was good, I recall. Well, a bit of irony in that Tobias is now selling Tru's SO II work without prior communication/consent. ;) At least it's a pressed CD-ROM instead of a shitty CD-R, right ? Heh-heh.
2) A friend of mine caught Shimarisu, the main Ys IV translator, selling CD-Rs of Ys IV with original copies. She had moved to Japan, had an eBay store and would find lots of original PC Engine copies, so she'd make a pre-patched CD-R to complement the sale of an original and boost the price. If she had shown respect and mentioned it, I would not have objected nor bothered to negotiate a "cut," but it's the sneaking around that bothered me most and then someone else catching it and reporting it to me. As with Tru, that ended our friendship. Down the road she apologized, but I just sort of moved on and our many chats on AIM never resumed. Lost touch with her totally. Unlike Tobias and Tru, at least she had SOME work hours into the English translation of it, as opposed to nothing to do with the project! I guess you can say that... Her defense was, "Hey, it IS my translation!!"
3) I randomly ran into a website once trying to sell Ys IV pre-patched CD-Rs for $30 bucks. It was hard to believe people would pay that much, but that was the price I would see there for a long time. I don't remember if I sent the ahole a nastygram, but I do remember seeing the sales ad. I don't respond to everything on the Internet somehow involving me, if I did I'd be a pretty busy man...
4) I guess this biggest backstab of them all with sheer criminality was Jeff Nussbaum (main Ys translator) and Thomas Lipschultz (Ys Typing Tutor translator and the Felghana manuals) after he was hired by an outfit called XSEED Games... (http://www.xseedgames.com/) I don't need to rehash all that here, I can just refer to this link...
So with all that over many years, why would I quit Emerald Dragon ? Sure, I mostly hate Ys F.A.N.s, I hate plenty of people involved in this stuff, but unfortunately, fan translating videogames is too much a part of me and I can't totally excise it out of my list of interests in life, no matter how hard I tried. I took a break from it for many years, I had to for offline reasons even if a well-known incident with the Felghana patch being leaked never happened, I still had to break from such work, but yeah, I don't mind picking up a project here and there again. It's something I still find myself enjoying to do. :/ I do find it hilarious though that Tobias wound up being yet another one of my f--king freeloaders in the 99% column! With him, you gotta open your wallet upfront, of course!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 21, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
Whatever cut you think you'd get, you'd never get. Only Tobias is going to know how many copies he has sold, and he is never going to be honest about that, and odds are he wont stop selling these with trumped up "premium packaging" as long as they keep selling. Once a lying scamming piece of shit, always a lying scamming piece of shit. That being said, I doubt Nanto would appreciate whatever deal you would cut with Tobias being posted about and negotiated in his forum. So if you plan to make a deal with Tobias, probably best you just keep it to yourself.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 21, 2015, 04:55:44 PM
Nightwolve, you and I have known each other for a long time and had it not been for your work on Xak III, I would likely never have gotten into the Xak series and built a website for it. If I hadn't built that site, there would be far less information out there on the series floating on the internet I think. Even the Wikipedia articles were touched up in a lot more detail by me and my passion for this series over the years. You know that I am a huge Falcom and Xak collector and I would love to see support for Xak III being pressed and made available as a nice display copy, so on a personal level I hope that such a possibility can present itself in the future for your releases, whether you end up with an agreement with Tobias or not.
In any case, whatever decision you make on this I will support. If you manage to work out a negotiation with Tobias, great, if you don't then I can post a message on the Xak series site at XyZ that states what Tobias is doing is being done without your permission if he continues to press and sell these.
I will say though that I'm rather surprised that he contacted both of us, and has at the very least offered some type of wish to find a solution that can benefit both parties. I do agree with the previous poster that you really would have no record or way to tell if he is filling more orders than what he claims. However, it would benefit him the most if he did agree to have an approved arrangement with you since then he would then be able to place orders for these free and clear and without the PCE scene boycotting his site. So in all honestly, I'd say the ball is really in your court on this because it only benefits him more to have your support, especially if what he is saying is true regarding this being the most desired game to have made into a set.
If it were me, and if I decided to do any type of business with their group, I would make an arrangement that orders go directly through yourself and Paul England, and then the customers who have requested copies are then sent to Tobias for him to run a batch print to fill a complete order of say 100 pieces each time. You could even tell him that you wish for him to discontinue these inferior version discs (or give them away for free) for the time being until you can release a final version of the patch. Of course that would be up to you and SamIAm who just mentioned to me that goes against his ideals for this hobby, so I'm not sure how that would all work out. But if you did end up working with him on these and reached an agreement, going through you and Paul England directly for order placement would be the way to go.
Back to what I was mentioning earlier about how the MSX community does things, say for new hardware peripherals, typically a thread is made by the developer where they ask a headcount of how many people want the device and members will drop in to say "I want this! Gimme one too!" and they fill a select number of slots for a batch to be sent off and made. This was done with the NoWind Disk Interface device, as well as the Korean-based 1-Chip MSX developed back in 2013 called the Zemmix Neo, and more recently with a guy that a friend and I placed an order with to have a batch of replacement MSX Turbo R Keyboard Membranes made. The orders and slots being filled were made public on a public forum community as well to show and keep track of the orders. And once those slots were filled, they are gone until another large batch list can be filled and sent off.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SephirothTNH on February 21, 2015, 05:19:56 PM
Well at least he replied to you I guess. What I read from his response though is basically "I'm going to do this no matter what, but I'm willing to work something out to make you drop the issue."
His middle ground is a buck a pop? I realize that isn't officially negotiations being started yet but it seems like that is his unofficial opening offer. On an item he is selling for 109 Euros he is offering you and your team "a buck a pop." I wonder if he's going to go ahead and handle the exchange rate for you so it really is 1 USD.
IMHO Repros should be sold at cost. Maybe a small "profit" to cover time spent making them. But these PCEworks sets cost a bit more than buying say 3 copies of Mysterious Song. The difference is the Mysterious Song team deserves to make some profit.
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on February 21, 2015, 05:25:05 PM
Quote
Second there's of course the monetization.
And let me assure you, I hear you on this. And I would certainly agree to we should (morally) have contacted you beforehand. But as unethical as it might sound, I have seen too many licensing negotiations and deals gone wrong - eventually just endangering a project from the start.
What a jerk. "Endangering a project from the start" -- so wrong, wrong, wrong. He tries to talk like a professional -- which is a laugh, considering he's a bootlegger -- but any professional knows that you sort this stuff out at the beginning to avoid problems! And if you can't sort it out, then you change plans! This jerk is basically saying that he already knew he was going to sell the (illegal) games no matter what, so he couldn't be bothered with the formalities (i.e. contacting you).
Quote
Usually when you start paying people or agree on royalties, repros end up being so expensive that only the elitists can afford them.
This Tobias goon is the elitist here, thinking he's so entitled that he can step on the backs of others to further his cause* without even the courtesy of an advance notification. And isn't the whole concept of buying bootlegs with pretty packaging an "elitist" concept in the first place? With his sob story about segregation and elitism, this dude acts like he's Robin Hood to the poor Xak-deprived masses... but Microcabin isn't the Sheriff of Nottingham, and Robin Hood sure as hell didn't stuff 5 shillings into a bag and then sell it for 49 shillings (citing the cost of the bag as reason for the markup).
I'll still consider you a righteous dude no matter how you respond to this goon, but yeah, as Professor said, best to keep anything sketchy off these forums.
* No matter how he dresses it up, we know that his cause is "making money" because of the pricing structure of his repros. If the demand for Xak III is so high as he claims, you can bet he's planning to make more than 100 of these things.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on February 21, 2015, 05:50:50 PM
Sorry to derail, but, did I miss something? Someone is giving NW grief for working on Emerald Dragon??
Back to Tobias, does he really think he's offering these games with little to no profit?? While I don't know the numbers, I can't rationalize that these cd games are costing that much! If they were Huey's, then sure, the prices make more sense, but.....cd's??
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on February 21, 2015, 05:54:27 PM
PD, someone thought that I might be upset enough to quit the Emerald Dragon project because of this. As I explained in my long-winded response, I've dealt with much, much worse. So no, no need for anyone to worry I would quit the project over this, etc.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 21, 2015, 06:22:32 PM
His middle ground is a buck a pop? I realize that isn't officially negotiations being started yet but it seems like that is his unofficial opening offer. On an item he is selling for 109 Euros he is offering you and your team "a buck a pop." I wonder if he's going to go ahead and handle the exchange rate for you so it really is 1 USD.
IMHO Repros should be sold at cost. Maybe a small "profit" to cover time spent making them. But these PCEworks sets cost a bit more than buying say 3 copies of Mysterious Song. The difference is the Mysterious Song team deserves to make some profit.
Just my 2 cents.
I guess I didn't realize that he was asking for that amount of money. That's a lot and it doesn't seem right that it would cost that much to produce these disks and printed materials. Even if shipping is included, it still seems a bit high. I've ordered plenty of MSX (there's that word again) goodies from Europe in the states. Games, books, fdd drive belts, cartridge peripherals, soundtracks, from many different countries. Spain, Germany, Netherlands, France, England, and while it sure isn't what I would call "cheap", you would probably pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 Euros for the smallest of items, 10-12 Euros for a medium item, and probably up to $25 Euros maximum for something fairly bulky or heavy (Up to 5 pounds or so) shipped to the U.S.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on February 21, 2015, 07:43:33 PM
I haven't posted here in a long time, and it's mainly due to the mentality that most of you people have over here, including the mentality that what this worthless f*ck is doing, is ok in any regard. It's not. A lot of stuff you people do over here is NOT ok with me, or others, and no one speaks up. I barely visit any gaming forum for anything anymore because I want damn near nothing to do with half the things going on in the gaming community as a whole, especially another forum that I won't bother speaking the name of here. Your behavior makes me want to sell all my games, but that's just a side note to what is going on here. Everyone always talks about preservation and collecting, but in reality all most of you care about is money and your ego, Tobias included. I think the whole Sapphire stunt and the letter should have been a clue about that a long time ago and he should have been shunned after, but most of you through it was great. -barf-
lol, what?
Most of the people here are *pissed* about this. You should really figure out how blanket statements work, because you've f*cked it up completely.
Quote
Funny how all of you are bitching now that he put out translated discs without permission, but you had no qualms about him ripping off Toei with Godzilla (including the music stolen/pirated), or any of the other games that he re-issued under his crappy label.
Says who?
Quote
Also, all you people saying, he should put a new title or maybe put something:
before the title screen, for a couple of seconds, like an FBI warning in movies.
Learn the difference between translations and coding, and come back to that thought.
You realize, coding is required for these translations to happen, right? The two go hand in hand.
So, maybe you should learn how a translation project for a game works before you start rubbing your dicktip while you get off to being condescending.
anyway, like ProfProf said, the reason chucklef*ck keeps doing this is because other chucklef*cks keep giving him money and supporting it.
Most of the retards who support that are not here. Some of you are. If you're reading this and you've bought from him, pat yourself on the back. You're a retard.
There's tons of retards on Facebook too. Bunch of tryhard wannabes that piss their panties and press the report button and cry off into the sunset whenever you try explaining how stupid they are.
Facebook's easy-access retrogaming bullshit is helping to perpetuate this stupidity. THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OF US ON THERE CALLING PEOPLE OUT.
Also: f*ck the Neo Geo forums.
I also didn't realize until this thread that Fudoh, the scanline guy, is the same idiot behind all of this. What a cunt.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: eldritch on February 21, 2015, 08:32:08 PM
I hope his dog still likes this Tobias guy, although it's unlikely.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SuperDeadite on February 21, 2015, 08:45:24 PM
So he claims to make no money off this, and yet charges very different prices depending on the title. Does not compute.
Personally I think NightW should give him the finger. Don't let this f*ck buy you off. Also Paul England is very easy to find. Send me a PM if you need help.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 23, 2015, 05:01:08 AM
As a member of this forum, I love Tobias and everything he does. It the law. :lol:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: toymachine78 on February 23, 2015, 07:17:26 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on February 23, 2015, 07:20:10 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 23, 2015, 07:22:39 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
The translators would need the ip owners permission for it to be legal too..
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: toymachine78 on February 23, 2015, 07:24:02 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
But how many companies do you think really care about these old games? Especially if the IP is no longer being used. Half of these companies are defunct. The worst case scenario these days is you will receive a Cease and Desist.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on February 23, 2015, 07:26:14 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
But how many companies do you think really care about these old games? Especially if the IP is no longer being used. Half of these companies are defunct. The worst case scenario these days is you will receive a Cease and Desist.
Until they realize you sold 1000 copies and made a bit of money, and send a law suit up your ass, dry. lol
and then they repackage it and put it on the virtual console or something and you cry yourself to sleep.
aw yeah.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: toymachine78 on February 23, 2015, 07:29:12 AM
I dunno. I'm just tired of hearing about this shit.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Medic_wheat on February 23, 2015, 07:49:33 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
The translators would need the ip owners permission for it to be legal too..
Then how is his guy pressing and selling these fan translates games? Did he go out and get permission from the IP holders?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 23, 2015, 07:52:14 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
The translators would need the ip owners permission for it to be legal too..
Then how is his guy pressing and selling these fan translates games? Did he go out and get permission from the IP holders?
He's dumb enough to risk it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Medic_wheat on February 23, 2015, 07:59:28 AM
I don't understand why translators don't press and sell their work themselves. With scaled down packaging you could easily undercut him in price and put him out of business. Especially considering there is a currency conversion and overseas shipping. Create a translators guild and unite against him.
probably because it's actually illegal and this guy's just being a knob gobbler.
The translators would need the ip owners permission for it to be legal too..
Then how is his guy pressing and selling these fan translates games? Did he go out and get permission from the IP holders?
He's dumb enough to risk it.
Ok that was my thinking.
Second thought.
Apart from making the general public aware of using fan translated work to make money without prior notice or request for April to use their work.
Why not just alert whom ever still owns the IP of these games of what he is doing to shut it down?
Kind of iceberg meets titanic situation. Sure everyone loses but it keeps the fan work kept from wing abiused which seems to be the main issue that NW has with his work on this and any other project?
Side note. Never heard of this guy by do remember some people posting here that thing called PCE memories with copies of Fasut Armor Godzilla and one or two other super CD games.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: 420GOAT on February 23, 2015, 08:37:38 AM
cant you send some one? easy.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on February 23, 2015, 09:00:09 AM
Why not just alert whom ever still owns the IP of these games of what he is doing to shut it down?
Depending upon the size of the original IP holder ... [ul][li]is the legal dept on-staff or external?[/li][li]how busy are they?[/li][li]how far up the management chain does a decision on how to respond go?[/li][li]how many meetings and man hours is it going to take to get that decision?[/li][/ul]... then it will cost them hundreds (rare) to many thousands (more likely) of dollars to respond.
That's what bootleggers and small-scale-thieves count on ... it's often easier for companies to ignore (and pretend that they have never heard of) the issue than confront it.
If the issue gets enough public visibility, then they'll have to respond in order to protect their IP ... but if not, then they can ignore it.
That's probably why Tobias actually started to talk to NightWolve, it calms things down a bit and probably stops it from getting the escalating publicity of a good fight, that would inevitably lead to the IP owners having to respond.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 23, 2015, 09:18:48 AM
Why not just alert whom ever still owns the IP of these games of what he is doing to shut it down?
Like elmer said, they most likely won't give a f*ck. If they do, where does it end? If they shut down Tobias, don't be surprised if they went after everyone else, like those making repro manuals, hosting scans of manuals/magazines/etc., hosting pre-patched isos, or even those that made the patches themselves.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: DarkKobold on February 23, 2015, 09:24:19 AM
Why not just alert whom ever still owns the IP of these games of what he is doing to shut it down?
Depending upon the size of the original IP holder ... [ul][li]is the legal dept on-staff or external?[/li][li]how busy are they?[/li][li]how far up the management chain does a decision on how to respond go?[/li][li]how many meetings and man hours is it going to take to get that decision?[/li][/ul]
Sometimes, the reality is that no one knows who actually owns the IP. That, in and of itself, becomes problematic. Xak III was developed and published by Microcabin and NEC. It isn't always clear which retained intellectual property rights. Hell, they may not even know if they own it.
Assuming it was NEC, they got out of the video game business 20+ years ago. They would have zero financial interest to pursue anyone violating a copyright on game software they hold. You could end up emailing everyone from the CEO to their legal department to their janitorial staff, and not find a party even interested enough to send a basic C&D.
If it was Microcabin... the situation is even more messy. They were bought by AQ interactive, and then AQ sold 85% of their stake of Microcabin to "Fields Corporation." Who owns the actual IP at that point? And once again, would you find anyone at the company even remotely interested in protecting IP that is from a defunct subsidiary? Maybe.
Victor Ireland talked at length about the difficulties in bringing over and securing IP in an old Retronauts podcast:
Unfortunately, thanks to the destruction of 1up, that link won't take you to the actual podcast. However, its a great episode, and worth a listen. He had a helluva time trying to figure out who owned IP, and that was for a legitimate purpose, his day job. Trying to track down a defunct IP owner to cause hell over a small repro run is going to be more difficult.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: toymachine78 on February 23, 2015, 10:02:48 AM
Why not just alert whom ever still owns the IP of these games of what he is doing to shut it down?
Like elmer said, they most likely won't give a f*ck. If they do, where does it end? If they shut down Tobias, don't be surprised if they went after everyone else, like those making repro manuals, hosting scans of manuals/magazines/etc., hosting pre-patched isos, or even those that made the patches themselves.
Exactly. Most likely they don't give a f*ck. If they do and you report it, you bring unwanted attention to everyone. That's why the original translators should do this, undercut his ass or stfu.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: VenomMacbeth on February 23, 2015, 10:07:28 AM
Your respect meter has just went up! About time you grew some balls and picked a side and said something that didn't require your nose being shoved directly into their ass. :dance: If i was there with you i would be there with a hug :oops:
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: VenomMacbeth on February 23, 2015, 11:29:03 AM
I dunno. I'm just tired of hearing about this shit.
Click a different thread?
Troll
You're the one complaining about being "tired of hearing" about a topic that you obviously voluntarily entered this thread to read about, yet I'm the troll.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: toymachine78 on February 23, 2015, 11:30:48 AM
I dunno. I'm just tired of hearing about this shit.
Click a different thread?
Troll
You're the one complaining about being "tired of hearing" about a topic that you obviously voluntarily entered this thread to read about, yet I'm the troll.
Dude its sarcasm. Relax. This isn't the first time this bitch fest has raised its head.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on February 23, 2015, 11:32:24 AM
Y'all stop fighting. Lol
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sarumaru on February 23, 2015, 11:54:15 AM
Dude its sarcasm. Relax. This isn't the first time this bitch fest has raised its head.
Ain't nobody unrelaxed. :) I was just busting your chops.
And I understand, I've heard of this Tobias character before, but his antics before seemed more detrimental to collectards and, potentially, the IP holders. The fact that he is screwing over the fans themselves this time around definitely shows that he's clearly not doing this "for the love of it."
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bartre on February 23, 2015, 02:01:23 PM
Y'all stop fighting and praise the goddamned sun already.
Hail Satan! >:D
Yes, my son, what is it?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on February 23, 2015, 04:37:14 PM
Wow, what a monster of a thread. I'm sorry this happened, but really it was only a matter of time before some schmuck saw a opportunity to make some cash off of someone elses work. Free pressed discs of Xak 3 and SO2 are tempting, but I feel it would only be enabling the guy to continue this shady business. I'll definitely pass.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 24, 2015, 09:26:46 AM
This sort of shit has passed the point where I can keep track of it all. I don't remember who Tobias is. Is he the a$$hole that made the RGB upscaler site funded by massively overpriced pirate copies of Sapphire, the Megaman port, etc? If so, f*ck that a$$hole.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 24, 2015, 09:45:14 AM
This sort of shit has passed the point where I can keep track of it all. I don't remember who Tobias is. Is he the a$$hole that made the RGB upscaler site funded by massively overpriced pirate copies of Sapphire, the Megaman port, etc? If so, f*ck that a$$hole.
Yes.
Space Fantasy Zone, Memories Box Set, Gilded Coin, etc.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 24, 2015, 10:26:07 AM
f*ck that guy.
EDIT: €109 for three pirate games!? WTF? That's basically the original retail cost, possibly more depending on how you calculate it. This guy didn't make or translate the games, just pirated them, and wants the same price, with much higher margin since there are no taxes, distributor margins, store margins, etc.
When Rayforce was still in business they answered my dumb gaijin non-kanji-reading-ass questions, over the phone, to get me unstuck in SOII. Will this a$$hole do the same?
What shocks me is...where do you get a wheelbarrow large enough to carry balls that big? There is a line there that refers to "most requested titles", like they were the next Working Designs or some shit. Requested by whom?
"For the love of it", and also a profit margin 16x bigger than any legit content creator could ever dream of seeing. What a cock.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on February 24, 2015, 10:31:13 AM
This sort of shit has passed the point where I can keep track of it all. I don't remember who Tobias is. Is he the a$$hole that made the RGB upscaler site funded by massively overpriced pirate copies of Sapphire, the Megaman port, etc? If so, f*ck that a$$hole.
Yes.
Space Fantasy Zone, Memories Box Set, Gilded Coin, etc.
Lol, for some reason "Tobias of the Gilded Coin" seems like a fitting moniker.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on February 24, 2015, 11:04:05 AM
EDIT: €109 for three pirate games!? WTF? That's basically the original retail cost, possibly more depending on how you calculate it. This guy didn't make or translate the games, just pirated them, and wants the same price, with much higher margin since there are no taxes, distributor margins, store margins, etc.
When Rayforce was still in business they answered my dumb gaijin non-kanji-reading-ass questions, over the phone, to get me unstuck in SOII. Will this a$$hole do the same?
What shocks me is...where do you get a wheelbarrow large enough to carry balls that big? There is a line there that refers to "most requested titles", like they were the next Working Designs or some shit. Requested by whom?
"For the love of it", and also a profit margin 16x bigger than any legit content creator could ever dream of seeing. What a cock.
Speaking of wheelbarrows to hold balls.
You don't need one. You just need the mouths of all the retards that gave this guy money for stuff.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on February 24, 2015, 11:17:35 AM
When Rayforce was still in business they answered my dumb gaijin non-kanji-reading-ass questions, over the phone, to get me unstuck in SOII. Will this a$$hole do the same?
Huh, no kidding. Nice history tidbit.
Quote
€109 for three pirate games!? WTF? That's basically the original retail cost, possibly more depending on how you calculate it. This guy didn't make or translate the games, just pirated them, and wants the same price, with much higher margin since there are no taxes, distributor margins, store margins, etc.
Agreed, he's apart of what creates a zero tolerance sentiment in a % of people because there's no sense of a reasonable mark-up, it's total price jacking/exploiting, and yet, not a single work hour spent in development of the game, or localizing to English, plus he escaped/evaded license fees to the producers, and also to NEC (since the platform is a closed model like most game consoles, you're supposed to technically talk business with the console manufacturer just for the privilege to produce software for it - Microsoft Windows is an open-model, I/anyone can produce Windows software and not have to buy a license from Microsoft each and every time). The rates he's charging, it's like he did pay $5k-$10k in license fees! Even before that, his first choice in Sapphire was all about exploiting the eBay madness as that was one of the first games selling in the hundreds.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 24, 2015, 12:50:40 PM
Yeah, NightWolve, I think his offer to you is all about preventing a wave of bad press, not about honest goodwill. I suggest that you don't give him any legitimacy.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on February 24, 2015, 01:05:27 PM
Haven't even replied back - needed a break from the drama anyway. :/ I'm not sure what to do.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 24, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Haven't even replied back - needed a break from the drama anyway. :/ I'm not sure what to do.
Its pretty simple to be honest. If you value your pride you will turn him down. He is trying to pay you off to get you to stfu. You take cash from him, you're his bitch. He owns you basically while only making you think he gave in to you in some manner. Whatever money he gives you, it wont represent any fare share you'd feel due, nor will it represent actual total sales. And to be honest, I hate to say this, but you're not due any of it anyway. Its all illegal profits from bootlegging. Yeah, you did the translation work sure. But you did this originally knowing full well this wasn't for monetary gain, because it was never going to be used by the original IP holders for any kind of re-release.
You need to chalk it up to lessons learned. As stated prior, you can hit up youtube and post around the net and just let people know of the situation. He used your fan translation for his illegal business. He did not ask for your permission. You are not associated with said business. You are a legit not for profit type when it comes to this fan translation stuff. People are going to learn Tobias is a scum bucket eventually, and you'd do yourself infinite amounts of favors by just not taking his cash and distancing yourself from his profiteering machine.
There is always this too. If the shit by chance did hit the fan, even a super slim chance, you'd be brought down with him too as an accomplice if you did work out an agreement and start taking cash. I'm sure he would keep records of any agreement you'd come to and just rat you out as leverage for a plea if things got bad. Honestly I cant imagine that a few hundred bucks to a couple grand at the most would be worth the consequences. Granted they don't go after software copyright infringement as much as they used to here in the US. But the few they do go after they throw the book at anymore and issue out prison terms and fines. These days ICE and HSI gets involved in this stuff, especially when money is exchanging hands, even more so if it involves over seas activity.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: synbiosfan on February 24, 2015, 01:52:33 PM
I know it's a big if that Tobias would actually face litigation but if he did, accepting money would probably make you a target too you'd think.
I hate that you're in this position.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 24, 2015, 02:20:51 PM
Listen to the Professor, NightWolve.
Don't forget, fan translators distribute patches that are in theory to be applied to legally made backups. Sure, there's a taciturn acknowledgement that that's not how it works in reality, and patches themselves are perhaps not at the very whitest part of the legal-ethical spectrum. However, the fan translation scene is functionally legit and legally unchallenged. So you can take the high road here in more ways than one.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on February 24, 2015, 03:12:14 PM
I haven't been here long enough for you to know me, but ...
Please take the Professor's advice! You'll regret it later if you don't ... not because you or he will probably get sued ... that's fairly unlikely. But because you'll know that you've compromised yourself for a few bucks and got in bed with known criminal that you hate. That won't wash away.
You know that he's doing this as a money-making enterprise ... there are no if's/but's/or any other rationalization that you can tell yourself about it being for the love of the original games or the platform.
It's out-and-out theft.
I suspect that you won't be happy waking up knowing that you've been a part of that.
You'd certainly never, ever, ever be able to take the high moral ground again if someone steals your IP.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on February 24, 2015, 03:58:17 PM
Quote
But because you'll know that you've compromised yourself for a few bucks and got in bed with known criminal that you hate
I've heard that Tobias is lousy in bed. According to internet legend, he gouges people with high-priced bootlegs to pay for his "supplements".
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 25, 2015, 02:06:03 AM
Haven't even replied back - needed a break from the drama anyway. :/ I'm not sure what to do.
I'd tell him to pound salt. Whatever meager sloppy seconds he's offering isn't worth it, and he could use your donate button if he really wanted to show appreciation for the patches anyway. Even if he did offer the lion's share of the profits, that'd just make you the gouger by proxy, and who'd want that?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on February 25, 2015, 02:49:46 AM
I agree with others about turning down the payment.
Maybe asking him to just put a notice about origin of the translation patch in/on case? Maybe something as small as a sticker that says "Based on Xak III Fan Translation by NightWolve" would not be that hard to do I would think.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: dingsbums on February 25, 2015, 04:11:28 AM
You guys are aware that he is a member here :?: and it's likely that he also reads this thread. So a open discussion how NightWolve should handle this situation is in my opinion not the smartest move - just sayin' :wink:.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 25, 2015, 04:39:43 AM
What difference does it make that Tobias is a member? I don't have a problem telling him to his face (so to speak) that his prices generally suck, that he's a liar, and that stealing work from active peeps is absolute shit.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: dingsbums on February 25, 2015, 05:30:17 AM
That was not what I meant. It's not the smartest idea to let the enemy know your steps in advance.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 25, 2015, 06:07:50 AM
f*ck him. He can rot. Don't care what he knows or doesn't know. I doubt he'd let a little thing like this forum stand in the way of his funding the purchase of multiple rgb encoders so he can upscale all his gay porn anyway. Whats the worst he can do to us? Nothing. Nothing at all.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cr8zykuban0 on February 25, 2015, 06:47:23 AM
sorry im late to the party
I think its better to post something like this up so the community can be aware of tobias' s shady actions thats hes been doing. sarumaru told me about this and I thought that was f*cked up of him to do what he did. profiting off someone eles work to make a quick buck. what a shady ass bitch!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 25, 2015, 07:56:13 AM
The more I think on this I agree with the points that Professor brought up as well. After you mentioned that he is charging so much money for producing these, it became pretty apparent that he is not interested in selling these at slightly over cost giving you a fair deal. But let's say that even if he was being fair to you in your cut of each print/sale, you risk your name as being an accomplice should anything go down about his operation being illegal to the IP holders. There's just no good way to go about this unless say the print/cd pressing house you decided to do business with was only selling fan-developed manuals and fan-developed pressed discs that could still be written to in a CD-Rom burning software program, as then you would not be selling illegal bootlegs of software.
In any case I retract any statements that I may have made previously about it being something to even consider, especially in light of what he has been known to be doing in the past as far as illegal operations go and other games that he is selling pressed discs of, and the sheer amount of money that he is charging for some of these games. Also as one poster pointed out, how come there is a such a vast price difference between certain games if the process for printing and pressing the disc is the same?
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 25, 2015, 04:07:08 PM
Make up your own mind, Nightwolve. Don't let these guys make up your mind for you. Keep in mind what kind of community this is. If you want to make a little bit of money then that's 100% up to you. Granted it probably won't be a lot of money. And you're under no obligation to let anyone know what decision you make. To me a patch like an English translation is something that should be bought for a flat fee. That is unless that translation was made with the purpose of selling, then I'd recommend a % of each sale. I've noticed that you tend to have lots of problems with people not paying you or giving you your due. Are you burning any bridges that we're not aware of and that makes people distance themselves from you? I don't mean to imply anything, but it often seems like you're extremely upset at the world. Personally I think it'd be great if you guys could work something out as I'd love to see a pressed Ys 4 disc. Tobias does his repros pretty well and I wouldn't want to see a gimpy-looking repro in a card-stock sleeve with no manual. But if you can do a good job yourself then that'd be great as well. Not sure how much luck you'd have trying to press copyrighted CDs in the US, though.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 26, 2015, 02:29:33 AM
Don't listen to Joe. He could never beat Samurai Shodown II. He once raged about it being too hard on this very forum. You can never take seriously the word of a man who was never manly enough to beat SS II. Here remains some proof of Joe not being of sound mind. Behold this sad wretch of a man and his pitiful girly complaints about the god of fighting games.
Don't listen to Joe. He could never beat Samurai Shodown II. He once raged about it being too hard on this very forum. You can never take seriously the word of a man who was never manly enough to beat SS II. Here remains some proof of Joe not being of sound mind. Behold this sad wretch of a man and his pitiful girly complaints about the god of fighting games.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 26, 2015, 07:47:35 AM
That brings up an interesting point. Since we know this guy is really just a crook I never really considered the economic breakdown of the price structure.
If his version of Startling Odessey II is worth $60...and the original game is only worth $10, and his bare-bones version is even cheaper than that, then that means the translation and whatever gilded bullshit adds at least $50 per copy to the game. The translators made this whole project possible, unfortunately.
Tobias would probably love to pay somebody somewhere something because as it is his costs are extremely small and margins super huge. He's transparently corrupt to anyone who isn't an idiot. He would love to "cover costs" so he could have some explanation for this carpet bagging bullshit price tag.
I really think it's a very very bad idea to take any money from this jerk. Furthermore, it's evidently time to do what anime fansubbers started doing in the early 90s when they realized con slugs were selling 10th gen copies of their efforts for $20 per tape: hardcode a message in the intro or title screen that says "This translation was a non-profit effort by fans. If you payed anything for it you were ripped off. To learn more email gundambob@compuserve.com". Something like that. Most of the time the pirates are way too stupid and helpless to remove the message. If you thread it deeply enough into the game there is no way he'll be able to figure the shit out.
The more I think on this I agree with the points that Professor brought up as well. After you mentioned that he is charging so much money for producing these, it became pretty apparent that he is not interested in selling these at slightly over cost giving you a fair deal. But let's say that even if he was being fair to you in your cut of each print/sale, you risk your name as being an accomplice should anything go down about his operation being illegal to the IP holders. There's just no good way to go about this unless say the print/cd pressing house you decided to do business with was only selling fan-developed manuals and fan-developed pressed discs that could still be written to in a CD-Rom burning software program, as then you would not be selling illegal bootlegs of software.
In any case I retract any statements that I may have made previously about it being something to even consider, especially in light of what he has been known to be doing in the past as far as illegal operations go and other games that he is selling pressed discs of, and the sheer amount of money that he is charging for some of these games. Also as one poster pointed out, how come there is a such a vast price difference between certain games if the process for printing and pressing the disc is the same?
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 26, 2015, 08:14:46 AM
The thing is that the repro scene is FULL of this shit. This isn't the first time someone's translation was taken and sold without consent and you can damn well bet it won't be the last. Any of you who have ever been to any kind of game convention knows this. I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that this guy isn't the only problem here.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 26, 2015, 08:49:20 AM
I don't see a warning message doing anything, as everyone that buys these things knows exactly what they're getting and its history. It'd be like the annoying FBI and Interpol messages on DVDs.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Medic_wheat on February 26, 2015, 09:47:56 AM
The thing is that the repro scene is FULL of this shit. This isn't the first time someone's translation was taken and sold without consent and you can damn well bet it won't be the last. Any of you who have ever been to any kind of game convention knows this. I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that this guy isn't the only problem here.
It is one of those situations where. Honestly?
Someone is always going to try and capitalize on readidly available free shit
Do you think all of those people who spent time ripping roms from video games and arcades are pissed that someone goes out and makes cartd that allow you to play entire back log of games on old systems?
Or that Retron5 used coding from various people like you to run their clone system.
Yes people made a shint but you don't see the Retron5 decreasing in sales or availability.
You need to make your own choice. Even if that choice is to do nothing other then voice your concerns or displeasure.
You are under no obligation to tell anyone if you should accept rembursment for your work or what have you.
But to me. Making it known that your work was used without prior notification or consent to the person making the money was a good move. Maybe better if it was worded more professionally instead of with such heated emotion.
The pro they guy contacted you and is willing to come to some form of terms because you made yourself known
All that is left is to decide if you accept counter with your own terms or say no.
Say what you will but a good faith effort was made on the part of this Tobias guy. Sure it is to save face but at lest the effort was made.
For all he knew he was unable to find the people involved in this patch so he went on his marry way. Played the dumb card until it was point out other wise.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2015, 09:52:25 AM
The thing is that the repro scene is FULL of this shit. This isn't the first time someone's translation was taken and sold without consent and you can damn well bet it won't be the last. Any of you who have ever been to any kind of game convention knows this. I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that this guy isn't the only problem here.
It is one of those situations where. Honestly?
Someone is always going to try and capitalize on readidly available free shit
Do you think all of those people who spent time ripping roms from video games and arcades are pissed that someone goes out and makes cartd that allow you to play entire back log of games on old systems?
Or that Retron5 used coding from various people like you to run their clone system.
Yes people made a shint but you don't see the Retron5 decreasing in sales or availability.
You need to make your own choice. Even if that choice is to do nothing other then voice your concerns or displeasure.
You are under no obligation to tell anyone if you should accept rembursment for your work or what have you.
But to me. Making it known that your work was used without prior notification or consent to the person making the money was a good move. Maybe better if it was worded more professionally instead of with such heated emotion.
The pro they guy contacted you and is willing to come to some form of terms because you made yourself known
All that is left is to decide if you accept counter with your own terms or say no.
Say what you will but a good faith effort was made on the part of this Tobias guy. Sure it is to save face but at lest the effort was made.
For all he knew he was unable to find the people involved in this patch so he went on his marry way. Played the dumb card until it was point out other wise.
Please don't post unless you read this thread. Or the other threads related to this. Thank you.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: geise on February 26, 2015, 10:08:47 AM
The thing is that the repro scene is FULL of this shit. This isn't the first time someone's translation was taken and sold without consent and you can damn well bet it won't be the last. Any of you who have ever been to any kind of game convention knows this. I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that this guy isn't the only problem here.
Why would you want Nightwolv to associate himself with a douchebag that will probably lie and give him pennies. Once that money is taken Nightwolv has already associated himself. Nightwolv I know the money can be tempting but he is going to short change you anyways and pocket most of it. I will not judge if this is what you do, but I hope you tell him to just go be the main event at a donkey show.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on February 26, 2015, 10:51:13 AM
The thing is that the repro scene is FULL of this shit. This isn't the first time someone's translation was taken and sold without consent and you can damn well bet it won't be the last. Any of you who have ever been to any kind of game convention knows this. I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that this guy isn't the only problem here.
Yeah look at the Dragon Quest 6 repro for one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dragon-Quest-Warrior-VI-6-Game-Cartridge-SNES-Super-Nintendo-ENGLISH-Version-/291385767171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d7f1f503 I'm sure there are countless others but I'm sure the guys who created the english patch for it aren't amused.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 26, 2015, 11:14:41 AM
First of all I don't think we should presume what decision Nightwolve should or should not make. That's 100% up to him and nobody else's bidness.
Secondly, it's easy to spew hatred for this kind of thing in the safety of an online forum. But do any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU go up to the countless dealers selling repros at game conventions and give them any sort of shit at all about selling stuff that doesn't belong to them? Do you ask them if they procured permission to use the particular English patch they're using? Why not? When I was at Retropalooza I was blown away by the sheer amount of repros for sale. It almost made wandering around the dealer floor less exciting so I generally just stayed put at my booth.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 26, 2015, 11:26:27 AM
I don't see a warning message doing anything, as everyone that buys these things knows exactly what they're getting and its history. It'd be like the annoying FBI and Interpol messages on DVDs.
I don't know who buys these things, honestly, I really don't. However I don't think every single person who buys them realizes that this is a game you can buy off YAJ for $1 and patch yourself for free, and that Tobias is taking freely available files that cost him nothing, applying a patch some hippie coder spent five years on, and then pocketing $0.95 of every dollar. I really don't think EVERYONE knows EXACTLY that, but then I have to admit I don't know WTF goes through the minds of these idiots.
And the FBI warning reference is completely off base. For starters, pirate copies of things usually have that warning removed. Only paying customers see that shit most of the time, which is why those warnings are counterproductive. (Additionally, threatening your customers with jail time is rarely a smart move). Also, ever since the DVD era those warnings have been mostly unskipable, which isn't something I'm talking about. I'm just suggesting that the title screen, which is probably going to be edited anyway, could have a statement like the one I described. Back in the days of VHS anime fansubs these techniques certainly did work. "If you paid money for this you got ripped off." is actually a pretty powerful message for a person who did in fact just go through that transaction. Some kid would buy the tape at a show for whatever price, sees the thing, and then learns he can get the shit for free or the price of a tape. Those comic convention bootleggers probably drove more people to the actual fansub scene than anyone.
The one thing that has no analog to the 90s fansub scene is the fact that people are making and paying real money for extra special deluxe editions of pirate material. I'm pretty sure that's a new thing.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2015, 11:30:01 AM
First of all I don't think we should presume what decision Nightwolve should or should not make. That's 100% up to him and nobody else's bidness.
Secondly, it's easy to spew hatred for this kind of thing in the safety of an online forum. But do any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU go up to the countless dealers selling repros at game conventions and give them any sort of shit at all about selling stuff that doesn't belong to them? Do you ask them if they procured permission to use the particular English patch they're using? Why not? When I was at Retropalooza I was blown away by the sheer amount of repros for sale. It almost made wandering around the dealer floor less exciting so I generally just stayed put at my booth.
????
We have a small TG-16/PCE community (I like to think we have a lot of the "DIY ethic" that characterized punk movement, see anecdote in next post). Tobias is a known entity who has a history with us.
We already have 2+ other threads explaining how profiteering, from Tobias, has negatively affected the folks who actually create indie/homebrew/hack/dub/sub/translation/etc. projects.
Our specific situation with Tobias is just that—our specific situation with Tobias.
Thank you. :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 26, 2015, 11:48:11 AM
I don't see a warning message doing anything, as everyone that buys these things knows exactly what they're getting and its history. It'd be like the annoying FBI and Interpol messages on DVDs.
I don't know who buys these things, honestly, I really don't. However I don't think every single person who buys them realizes that this is a game you can buy off YAJ for $1 and patch yourself for free, and that Tobias is taking freely available files that cost him nothing, applying a patch some hippie coder spent five years on, and then pocketing $0.95 of every dollar. I really don't think EVERYONE knows EXACTLY that, but then I have to admit I don't know WTF goes through the minds of these idiots.
And the FBI warning reference is completely off base. For starters, pirate copies of things usually have that warning removed. Only paying customers see that shit most of the time, which is why those warnings are counterproductive. (Additionally, threatening your customers with jail time is rarely a smart move). Also, ever since the DVD era those warnings have been mostly unskipable, which isn't something I'm talking about. I'm just suggesting that the title screen, which is probably going to be edited anyway, could have a statement like the one I described. Back in the days of VHS anime fansubs these techniques certainly did work. "If you paid money for this you got ripped off." is actually a pretty powerful message for a person who did in fact just go through that transaction. Some kid would buy the tape at a show for whatever price, sees the thing, and then learns he can get the shit for free or the price of a tape. Those comic convention bootleggers probably drove more people to the actual fansub scene than anyone.
The one thing that has no analog to the 90s fansub scene is the fact that people are making and paying real money for extra special deluxe editions of pirate material. I'm pretty sure that's a new thing.
I agree that a notice on the title screen is actually a good idea for actually *educating* folks.
Let me share a history lesson with everyone here:
Back in the day, lots of DIY punk bands wanted to get their music into as many hands as possible for a fair price. So they charged a fair price via mail order and trusted independent distributors. HOWEVER, lots of greedy bastards (record shops) sold the records at "regular" price, which allowed the record shop to make more profit from ignorant customers.
SO, the bands would put disclaimers on the actual record art "This EP IS AVAILABLE FOR $3.00 from" or "Pay no more than $3.00 for this EP"
This seemingly futile disclaimer actually worked for *some* customers. Many customers are ignorant and remain ignorant. Other customers don't care. But, I guarantee, at least a handful of customers *did care*, and *educated themselves* and stopped filling the pockets of the profiteers.
I was one of those ignorant customers.
Not for long, Thankfully.
Because of a stupid disclaimer.
I started buying records from honest folks instead of price-gougers.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 26, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
Another option might be to make a disclaimer warning screen that says "don't buy this blah blah blah", but make it very easy to hack out....
...then have the game check to see if it's been hacked out halfway through a play, and freeze up if it is. If we're really diabolical, we could even have it jack up the difficulty, then delete the save file 3/4 through.
This is actually what Earthbound did to prevent people from using copiers BITD. That game is the most heavily protected I have ever seen. Even today, I fear playing it via any means other than a real cart.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on February 26, 2015, 01:48:09 PM
Another option might be to make a disclaimer warning screen that says "don't buy this blah blah blah", but make it very easy to hack out....
...then have the game check to see if it's been hacked out halfway through a play, and freeze up if it is. If we're really diabolical, we could even have it jack up the difficulty, then delete the save file 3/4 through.
This is actually what Earthbound did to prevent people from using copiers BITD. That game is the most heavily protected I have ever seen. Even today, I fear playing it via any means other than a real cart.
That would require collectards to take their extremely Limited Edition Collector's Sets off their shelves, being carefully not to drop the Limited Edition PC Engine coin, tear open their sealed TurboDuo and actually play through the games.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 26, 2015, 01:56:48 PM
Even the worst collector isn't so stupid as to want a game that doesn't work. If word got out that this guy shipped hundreds of discs that can't actually be played, sales of that particular game would essentially stop, and his reputation would take a big hit.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: technozombie on February 26, 2015, 02:24:34 PM
First of all I don't think we should presume what decision Nightwolve should or should not make. That's 100% up to him and nobody else's bidness.
Secondly, it's easy to spew hatred for this kind of thing in the safety of an online forum. But do any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU go up to the countless dealers selling repros at game conventions and give them any sort of shit at all about selling stuff that doesn't belong to them? Do you ask them if they procured permission to use the particular English patch they're using? Why not? When I was at Retropalooza I was blown away by the sheer amount of repros for sale. It almost made wandering around the dealer floor less exciting so I generally just stayed put at my booth.
I was also surprised by how prevalent the repros were at Retropalooza. Oddly enough there were no flash carts anywhere. It was really eye opening as to how this hobby has become more about showing off than playing games. If you were interested in playing games you'd get an everdrive, if you want to show off on Facebook and to your friends you buy a repro.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 26, 2015, 02:45:12 PM
Man I LOVE stuff like the Everdrive. I really wish there were options for CD based systems that didn't require you to gut out or otherwise molest the system. That said I'd be happy to buy a secondary Dreamcast with a non-working drive once that SD card thingy is ready to go (not the one that attaches on the serial port). But I don't want to lose the ability to play real CDs. That mans I'd have to find an extra Turbo CD and lots of other systems if solutions to those were found.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Medic_wheat on February 26, 2015, 03:26:16 PM
Man I LOVE stuff like the Everdrive. I really wish there were options for CD based systems that didn't require you to gut out or otherwise molest the system. That said I'd be happy to buy a secondary Dreamcast with a non-working drive once that SD card thingy is ready to go (not the one that attaches on the serial port). But I don't want to lose the ability to play real CDs. That mans I'd have to find an extra Turbo CD and lots of other systems if solutions to those were found.
Must imagine if you will a Frankienstiens Monster Cd system.
The mangled body of a Sega Saturn/DC with RGB port drilled into one end. And the guts stuffed with a SD card reader.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 26, 2015, 05:48:21 PM
A model one Sega CD with a tray that opens and out slides an SD card slot would be pretty rad, though.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on February 26, 2015, 10:22:46 PM
But do any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU go up to the countless dealers selling repros at game conventions and give them any sort of shit at all about selling stuff that doesn't belong to them? Do you ask them if they procured permission to use the particular English patch they're using?
Actually yes. I've only been to one "game" convention -- never seen repros being sold by the videogame dealers at anime conventions -- and I saw a dude selling some NES ROMs. The way they were presented was as though the dealer was responsible for creating the repro's*, so I got belligerent right to his face.
He thought I was an ass and he was clearly upset. That pleased me.
* If someone just happens to be selling a repro that they bought from someone else, I wouldn't give them a hard time. But when someone appears to be taking responsibility for the product existing, they had damn well better be responsible for the product existing.
EDIT: Also, I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of the upfront disclaimers. I once bought an anime bootleg in my youth from the local comic shop, saw the disclaimer, and that opened my eyes to what was really going on. Whether or not it's removable is irrelevant -- it's an easy inclusion that harms no one except the profiteer.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on February 26, 2015, 10:34:16 PM
* accidental double post *
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on February 27, 2015, 02:22:21 AM
Secondly, it's easy to spew hatred for this kind of thing in the safety of an online forum. But do any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU go up to the countless dealers selling repros at game conventions and give them any sort of shit at all about selling stuff that doesn't belong to them? Do you ask them if they procured permission to use the particular English patch they're using? Why not?
That's two very different things. I wouldn't seek out confrontation with sellers, but I'd say they suck in discussions with other convention goers; similarly, I'll say Tobias sucks in a discussion forum, but I'm not sending him daily emails, calling him on the phone, or driving over to Germany to kick him in the lederhosen.
For you guys arguing that warnings work, you're citing examples that are mostly irrelevant. Some guy buying stuff at a anime con or in a record store probably didn't know any better, but nobody is stumbling upon Tobias's shit unawares; to find and order this crap, you have to know what you're looking for. Such warnings might help a handful of people have a change of heart, but most buyers won't care.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: DragonmasterDan on February 27, 2015, 02:25:04 AM
But do any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU go up to the countless dealers selling repros at game conventions and give them any sort of shit at all about selling stuff that doesn't belong to them? Do you ask them if they procured permission to use the particular English patch they're using?
Actually yes. I've only been to one "game" convention -- never seen repros being sold by the videogame dealers at anime conventions -- and I saw a dude selling some NES ROMs. The way they were presented was as though the dealer was responsible for creating the repro's*, so I got belligerent right to his face.
He thought I was an ass and he was clearly upset. That pleased me.
* If someone just happens to be selling a repro that they bought from someone else, I wouldn't give them a hard time. But when someone appears to be taking responsibility for the product existing, they had damn well better be responsible for the product existing.
EDIT: Also, I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of the upfront disclaimers. I once bought an anime bootleg in my youth from the local comic shop, saw the disclaimer, and that opened my eyes to what was really going on. Whether or not it's removable is irrelevant -- it's an easy inclusion that harms no one except the profiteer.
I know the Midwest Gaming Classic for example apparently passed a rule in recent years banning the sale of repros. But a few years back there were 3 or 4 vendors selling mostly or primarily repro carts. A lot of them had the same common popular cartridges quite a few of which were fan translations and hacks of existing games.
As Joe mentioned, I doubt these vendors or the original makers of these carts are asking NeoDemiforce and what not for permission to repro old Square or Enix games with their translations.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on February 27, 2015, 04:26:07 AM
I really, really, like what SamIAm suggested. It does remind me of the Earthbound situation as well as with a game called "Game Dev Tycoon" which had a pretty hilarious anti-piracy (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/29/the-best-anti-piracy-measure-ever) measure.
Hell, if you guys are skilled enough to insert a check for disclaimer that gets removed, that sounds like a great idea! Also the same could apply to the disclaimer if say the disc actually was released as a pressed disc through a production house that was authorized to do business with the developer/romhacker where the message could say something like:
"This translation was created by INSERT NAME and distributed through INSERT NAME only. If you have purchased this disc from anyone other than INSERT NAME, you have been been ripped off and quite possibly the this version will break at some point during play."
Also, I just had a friend explain to me how pressed discs work versus CD-Rs and how pressed discs tend to be easier on the laser to read the data, so I guess you can throw out my suggestion for an operation of selling only the nice looking CD/Case/Manual that requires the game to be written to it like a CD-R. I guess in my mind I originally thought that these pressed discs were just fancier Lightscribed CD-Rs, but apparently I had no idea what I was talking about. I'll just chalk that up as a learned lesson in recordable media technology.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 27, 2015, 08:06:47 AM
I think the time bomb code is only a good idea if there was some way to get the game working again later, like a decade later. I'd hate to think of a great game being pressed onto real CDs permanently self destructing. Quite a waste.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esadajr on February 27, 2015, 09:31:15 AM
I think the time bomb code is only a good idea if there was some way to get the game working again later, like a decade later. I'd hate to think of a great game being pressed onto real CDs permanently self destructing. Quite a waste.
No because that would only happen to unauthorized copies.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on February 27, 2015, 12:09:23 PM
I think the time bomb code is only a good idea if there was some way to get the game working again later, like a decade later. I'd hate to think of a great game being pressed onto real CDs permanently self destructing. Quite a waste.
I think the time bomb code is only a good idea if there was some way to get the game working again later, like a decade later. I'd hate to think of a great game being pressed onto real CDs permanently self destructing. Quite a waste.
No because that would only happen to unauthorized copies.
Please, please, please tell me that you guys are joking around here! :pray:
There is no time bomb.
If Tobias hired someone to remove/alter the disclaimer on title screen, this douchebaggery would be repaid with an amusing consequence (take your pick).
The game would work fine unless someone tried to remove the disclaimer.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on February 27, 2015, 12:26:36 PM
It doesn't matter if the disc has a anti modification measure or not since most of the buyers won't bother opening the actual box with the game...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on February 27, 2015, 12:31:49 PM
You know that those first-generation CD lasers were so powerful that developers often flipped the wrong bit in code and melted the entire console ... very expensive!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 27, 2015, 01:25:11 PM
Someone named tobias.albrecht.hh just registered here on the 25th. That's him, isn't it? Should this guy be allowed to be a member?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on February 27, 2015, 01:59:22 PM
Sounds like its him. He has a old id here also from way back when he was lying about the Sapphire shit also.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on February 28, 2015, 02:21:24 AM
Someone named tobias.albrecht.hh just registered here on the 25th. That's him, isn't it? Should this guy be allowed to be a member?
My personal feeling is "yes" ... at least for a while.
There's a lot of negative talk about him here and in other threads.
I think that anyone, Tobias included, should have the chance to be able to respond to online trash-talk and defend themselves. I don't think that it is good to hide the discussion behind closed doors when people years from now can still come in and find it ... and not to see his side (if he wants to expound it).
Now, if he acts like a total dick and doesn't obey the forum rules ... then it's perfectly right to ban him, just like anyone else would be banned.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 28, 2015, 03:32:17 AM
I think the time bomb code is only a good idea if there was some way to get the game working again later, like a decade later. I'd hate to think of a great game being pressed onto real CDs permanently self destructing. Quite a waste.
No because that would only happen to unauthorized copies.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN AUTHORIZED COPY!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: vestcoat on February 28, 2015, 08:42:49 AM
There's a lot of negative talk about him here and in other threads.
I think that anyone, Tobias included, should have the chance to be able to respond to online trash-talk and defend themselves. I don't think that it is good to hide the discussion behind closed doors when people years from now can still come in and find it ... and not to see his side (if he wants to expound it).
God, this place never f*cking changes.
I appreciate a good devil's advocate, but don't be an idiot. The old "two sides" argument kind of breaks down when the evidence is absolutely irrefutable, as in the case of... oh, I don't know, Tobias/Fudoh or the Holocaust.
Calling a spade a spade isn't trash talking. No one is wildly accusing Tobias of being a profiteering piece of shit, HE IS A PROFITEERING PIECE OF SHIT. He feigned ignorance regarding the authenticity of the Sapphire bootlegs THAT HE REPLICATED so he could charge premium prices. Don't believe me? His lying posts are still on the forum, unmodified. Look it up. He profited on Bonknut's free Megaman hack without permission, motivating Bonknuts to stop distributing ISO releases. Don't believe me? Find an archive of his webstore. He stole Xak III.
Now we can debate the morality and ownership of physical pirating, digital pirating, unauthorized fan translations and hacks until we're blue in the face and I'm content if we agree to disagree. Unfortunately, the handful of people with the skills and interest to hack and translate NES and PCE games (i.e., Nightwolve and Bonknuts) are getting pissed off, and that's bad news for everyone on these forums. So, don't defend Foduh, you f*cking idiot. Also, he already has an account here and is free to post at any time. No one is silencing him.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on February 28, 2015, 09:07:25 AM
What Vestcoat said.
To spare people the effort of looking it up, here's what Tobias/Fudoh said about the Sapphire copies that he himself created:
Quote
Please let me make clear that I sell them as what they are: Sapphire reprints of unknown origin. Back a few years Hudson mentioned that these could be "waste", something like pre-production samples or a production run rejected due to sub-par quality - not illegal, but not meant for sale either. I simply don't know.
In other words, he is a proven liar.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on February 28, 2015, 11:17:36 AM
So, don't defend Foduh, you f*cking idiot. Also, he already has an account here and is free to post at any time. No one is silencing him.
If you don't agree with my use of the phrase "trash talk", and you believe that it only means "stuff that isn't true" ... then I understand your comment ... but you misunderstood mine.
If you think that I was defending Fudoh, then ... [uldecimal][li]You don't understand English.[/li][li]You haven't bothered to read my posts in the other sections, and so have no clue what my job is.[/li][/ul] And if he's already got an active and unbanned account here, then "no", he doesn't need a new one.
Have a nice day.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on February 28, 2015, 11:50:08 AM
Never understood why certain peeps resort to calling people names round here. But whatever.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on February 28, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
It doesn't matter if the disc has a anti modification measure or not since most of the buyers won't bother opening the actual box with the game...
Like I said, all that's necessary is for the word to get out. Even if it's a trophy, nobody wants a broken game.
That doesn't explain people paying ridiculous prices for Exile WP. What's more important is that is has a cardboard sleeve.
off topic... but if anyone has a sleeve in good shape I'll pay $35 for it OR trade you a PCE Memories Repro Repro (burned em and used my own inkjet)
You can have the sleeve to my okidata 390 turbo that has your name all over it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on February 28, 2015, 06:02:52 PM
To all the title-screen/time bomb people here: If there was something on the title screen saying something to the effect of "Translated by so and so" and it was removed, the translation itself would still be HUGE evidence of who translated it. It's not like two different people/groups are going to translate it separately and have them be word-for-word exact.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on February 28, 2015, 07:22:41 PM
To all the title-screen/time bomb people here: If there was something on the title screen saying something to the effect of "Translated by so and so" and it was removed, the translation itself would still be HUGE evidence of who translated it. It's not like two different people/groups are going to translate it separately and have them be word-for-word exact.
No, the disclaimer would say "If you paid for this, you are a fool because it is freely available at blank.com ... ... and a DIY version of physical media should only cost a few Dollahs."
The point of the disclaimer would be to educate folks about the DIY/fan ethic...and how to enjoy the fruits of the DIY/fan ethic/process.
Joe, in your world, it would akin to a PSA. :)
ALSO NOTE: There was never any timebomb. Ever. A person was skimming the thread and did not read carefully. Sadly, an all-too-common problem in threads like this.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on February 28, 2015, 07:29:42 PM
To all the title-screen/time bomb people here: If there was something on the title screen saying something to the effect of "Translated by so and so" and it was removed, the translation itself would still be HUGE evidence of who translated it. It's not like two different people/groups are going to translate it separately and have them be word-for-word exact.
I don't know why you are mentioning this.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on February 28, 2015, 07:52:19 PM
To all the title-screen/time bomb people here: If there was something on the title screen saying something to the effect of "Translated by so and so" and it was removed, the translation itself would still be HUGE evidence of who translated it. It's not like two different people/groups are going to translate it separately and have them be word-for-word exact.
"Time-bomb" gives an inaccurate idea of what the concept is. It's something a bit different, and it has two parts.
First is to add a piece of code to the game's startup sequence that causes a message to be displayed, and to design this message to harsh the buzz of anyone who paid for a reproduction as much as possible. Something like:
"This is a non-profit fan-translation. The people who made it do not wish to see it bought or sold, and have not and will not ever accept money for it.
If you buy or sell a copy of this translation, you are disrespecting and damaging the entire community of translators and hackers who work hard to release fan-translations like these.
If you purchased this copy unknowingly, please return it, download a patch from romhacking.net, and use it to make your own CD-R."
Second is to add another piece of code to some loading sequence that occurs midway through the game. Say, a load before a major boss fight. This code will check to make sure that the first piece of code with the message has not been tampered with or bypassed. If it has been tampered with or bypassed, this second piece of code will go ahead and crash the game and delete the player's save file, possibly after making the player fight a boss with two-to-ten times his normal HP.
That doesn't explain people paying ridiculous prices for Exile WP. What's more important is that is has a cardboard sleeve.
I'm not talking about a couple of harder enemies. I'm talking about having the game freeze and nuke your save file halfway through a play if our anti-reproduction message is tampered with. Harder enemies could be added before the crash just to make people all the more frustrated. It's kind of a dick move, but hey, if it turns more people against bootleggers, I think it's all right.
Some people might buy a reproduction, see that message, and totally ignore it anyway. That's all right. There's nothing we can do about them. But I believe that some people have enough conscience to not want to give money to an obvious bootlegger.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on March 01, 2015, 02:27:01 AM
To all the title-screen/time bomb people here: If there was something on the title screen saying something to the effect of "Translated by so and so" and it was removed, the translation itself would still be HUGE evidence of who translated it. It's not like two different people/groups are going to translate it separately and have them be word-for-word exact.
Joe Redifer is right. Translators should not consider placing their names anywhere in the game code. Also, authors should stop putting their names on book covers and film credits should be abolished. By analyzing the work itself, it's OBVIOUS who created it!
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 01, 2015, 03:03:32 AM
To all the title-screen/time bomb people here: If there was something on the title screen saying something to the effect of "Translated by so and so" and it was removed, the translation itself would still be HUGE evidence of who translated it. It's not like two different people/groups are going to translate it separately and have them be word-for-word exact.
Joe Redifer is right. Translators should not consider placing their names anywhere in the game code. Also, authors should stop putting their names on book covers and film credits should be abolished. By analyzing the work itself, it's OBVIOUS who created it!
Dude, please read this thread.
Joe's comment was misinformed, and did not actually represent the proposal.
Please read my post, or SamIAm's post, just prior to yours.
I am beginning to question the reading comprehension of everyone.
READING IS FUNDAMENTAL.
ASIDE: I can't excuse long-time members for their ignorance. They clearly have not been reading this thread. They just hop on a a runaway, ill-informed tangent.
I love Emerald and Joe, but...DAMN.
R.I.F.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gentlegamer on March 01, 2015, 04:20:52 AM
I see Joe's bootleg Dungeon Explorer II showed up in the latest Game Sack...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 04:29:46 AM
I see Joe's bootleg Dungeon Explorer II showed up in the latest Game Sack...
Yeah, I think him and Bernie are somewhat current customers of Tobias. Bernie showed off his two Memories boxsets in a youtube video also. They are not the only ones here though that buy from Tobias...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on March 01, 2015, 04:33:13 AM
I bought some Sapphire discs from him... :|
One positive maybe... when I did the sapphire disc giveaway thing, I asked tobias if I could get a copy of the case artwork files etc so I could make a not for resale version of them and then he sent me case insert artwork complete with a NO EBAY logo on it... Nice gesture I thought.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on March 01, 2015, 04:45:22 AM
Joe's comment was misinformed, and did not actually represent the proposal.
...blah blah...
READING IS FUNDAMENTAL
My post was a joke at Joe's expense, but let's get SeRiOuS -- there's not much difference between a disclaimer that says "translated by so-and-so" and a disclaimer that says "<the translation> is freely available at blank.com".
Please re-read what you yourself wrote.
I love you Esteban, but... DAMN
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 01, 2015, 07:39:30 AM
I seriously don't even know what you guys are talking about. I'm not joking. I think you might be missing the whole f*cking point of all of this.
Anyway,
While I'm not a coder, a hacker, a translator, a bootlegger, or a customer, I think SamIAm's strategy is far too scorched earth.
The idea is to educate noob fans that there is a world outside of eBay, and that nonprofit motives made this translation. The universe doesn't exist so that every single minute thing in it can be commodified and flipped for as large of a profit as possible. Tobias is not a content creator, an artist, or anything respectable as far as I know. (It would be pretty funny to find out that he cures cancer in babies for a living, but I'll take that risk. I assume he's a bank teller or a used car salesman or some other blood sucking parasite.) Rayforce took the money make from SO1 and used it to make SO2. Tobias will take all the money he makes from SO2, much more per copy that Rayfoce did, and buy a series of new televisions and XRGBs, each larger than the one before. He won't make SO3, he mainly just makes a cardboard jacket and a bullshit hype story for the games and makes far more money off of them than the original publishers could have dreamed of. He is the bad guy, not the 19 year old lawyer children that buy this crap. Punishing the dumbass that bought the thing shouldn't be on the agenda. Making them fight jacked up bosses or deleting their save isn't going to do anything but piss them off. They aren't going to plow half way through the game, get completely f*cked by malicious code, then suddenly be converted by the experience of having wasted 20 hours and $60 and then start all over again by locating the patch, appying it, and then playing through the first half of the game again.
It's like someone said, "We need to help the homeless!" and proposed the idea of just going to the local soup kitchen with a flamethrower and burning the whole place and everyone in it to the ground.
The idea, at least as I see it, would be to educate the noob as to where these things come from. The youth of today are so totally bought into a reality of everything being manufactured and for sale but at the same time also possessing nearly zero understanding of how it's made or where it comes from. It's highly unlikely that they make or create much of anything in their own lives. They don't know how how games are made or modified or bootlegged. They just know glossy cardboard hype and gilded coin bullshit. Why would it be any different? Run amok Capitalism has completely obliterated the connection between the value of work and their own lives since it's likely they don't even undertand WTF they do for a living. "Value" is something they only understand when its applied from amorphous external forces. eBay decides what things are worth. If these things are $60 on eBay (soon to be $600 on eBay) then they have value. A fan translation has no dollar value and therefore is worthless. Cardboard and gilded coins can't be dowloaded from The Pirate Bay so they have value. The idea would be to do whatever possible to tank this perspective, or lack thereof, at least to the extent that it applies to old-ass games.
WHEN IT COMES TO XAK III OR SO2 THERE COULD BE NOTHING MORE LEGIT THAN AN ORIGINAL JP COPY AND A CDR WITH THE ENG PATCH APPLIED. THERE IS EVEN SPACE FOR A CD-R IN THE GAME CASE ALREADY! THERE COULD BE NOTHING MORE FAKE THAN TOBIAS'S BULLSHIT CARDBOARD.
To make the message as non-counterproductive as possible I would suggest:
The message should be short, it should fit on a screen that already exists in the game, maybe a sub menu (thats a good one), maybe a title screen. No new screens, no new delays or pestering bullshit. Other areas of "not making the game worse" would be to not Vic with the gameplay and ruin what will likely be the only pressed English copies of this game that will ever exist. Keep in mind that the fan scene is far more important and long lasting than a revenge scheme you'll never even be able to experience first hand. If the game blows up the noobs will not get the window into the fan world I'm suggesting, they'll just be pissed off at it and the divide will grow. 10 years from now copies of these games will still be trading hands, do you want them to be worthless even after they are on their 14th owner and Tobias has been in jail for bond fraud for years? What would be the point of that?
I suggest: put them message in, put the kill switch in, if you have to. Every copy Tobias sells will be an ad for the actual translated ROM scene, pointing them away from him. If the pirate scum gets someone to remove the visual aspects of the code, have the code display a Donkey Kong Country-esque piracy notification at some point in the game freezing it in place.
And then, after Tobias has 1000 pissed off customers, after he stops selling the game, then release a fix. Keep in mind that these are pressed copies of cool games previously only available in Japanese. Wasting them all would pretty pretty uncool. No big deal to the guy that writes the code, but devastating to the schmucks that payed money for the stuff and were maybe really into the game before it had a temper tantrum and blew the f*ck up.
Possible ways to bring the broke games back to life could include; a downloadable ISO of a small program that patches the save file to skip past the blockage once loaded by the game, or a code that can be input with a controller.
Then, after Tobias gets all his money, you know, money, the most important thing in the world, and a thing that preferably a person would rather scheme and swindle to get instead of work because work is for idiots, after he gets that, he basically just took out an ad for the ROM hacking scene. If he hacked it, the fans will be rather put out that the game doesn't work and he won't be able to sell that exact CD for very long.
So in the end, the translation sees more use that it already has, the value of the game is highly unstable, and Tobias can go piss up a rope. Everyone wins.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 01, 2015, 08:03:53 AM
My comment was not misinformed, it's right on the money. You guys are saying "Put your name or a disclaimer on the title screen so people won't rip off your translation." I'm saying that if someone DOES rip off your translation and removes your name from the title screen, the translation on said rip-off could still be proven as yours. It would be uploaded to Rom-hacking.net under your name, for example, and the translations would be the same. You guys read into my comment with things that I wasn't even remotely saying. Not surprised with the people in this thread, though.
I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 01, 2015, 08:09:37 AM
I see Joe's bootleg Dungeon Explorer II showed up in the latest Game Sack...
Yeah, I think him and Bernie are somewhat current customers of Tobias. Bernie showed off his two Memories boxsets in a youtube video also. They are not the only ones here though that buy from Tobias...
I missed this post. No, those were sent for free. We got the Godzilla set with the games that came in that as well as this latest Xak III set. He sends 10 press release sets out.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 08:18:44 AM
I see Joe's bootleg Dungeon Explorer II showed up in the latest Game Sack...
Yeah, I think him and Bernie are somewhat current customers of Tobias. Bernie showed off his two Memories boxsets in a youtube video also. They are not the only ones here though that buy from Tobias...
I missed this post. No, those were sent for free. We got the Godzilla set with the games that came in that as well as this latest Xak III set. He sends 10 press release sets out.
And you gave him some "free advertising" in your video by showing off his product. Hooray for you.
I didn't show em off, least I don't think I did. They just were on my game shelf in my game room video.
You may not have, at least in depth. I just remember seeing them when I glimpsed your game room video and was kinda disgusted with seeing them on the shelf there when you worked your way over to the PCE stuff. To be honest I tuned out at that point. I don't think it really matters. Point being, they were there, you supported him. Doesn't matter if someone is advertising for him in any sorta way, or buying from him. Both are equally bad. Both are helping him make money and fund his activity.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 01, 2015, 09:41:48 AM
As long as you're putting together a list of people who possess these sets, I have both of them as well. If there's going to be a witch hunt, I wouldn't want to be left out while Bernie and Joe are being burned at the stake.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on March 01, 2015, 09:49:39 AM
Cool, I knew I had planted a third stake in the ground for a reason.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on March 01, 2015, 09:50:15 AM
:(
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 09:54:50 AM
I'm going to put it bluntly. Tobias went out of his way to f*ck this community about 10 years back. He put his Sapphires out on the market and fabricated a lot of bullshit to fool people in this community. He also wreaked a small amount of havoc on import shops and unsuspecting ebay buyers who ended up with copies of his game, thinking they were legit. He is an enemy of the Turbografx/PCE community. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. He isn't doing this as a favor to any of you. His only goal making scratch, profiting from your foolishness.
Supporting this guy in any sort of way, shape, or form makes you an accomplice of sorts in my eyes. It doesn't matter if he is making it clear said wares are repros now. He is still a cunt and you are financing him and his ventures in one fashion or another. He is still selling IP that isn't his. You are still buying it knowing as much. You are still advertising his shit in some form. Doesn't matter if its as a glimpse on a shelf in a youtube video, a full review, or even at the end of one in some stupid skit. You simply don't care if its right or not. All you care about is that your got your magical f*cking pressed copy box sets.
You supporting him is giving us, the ones he screwed or tried to screw over at one point or another, the finger.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: vestcoat on March 01, 2015, 09:56:11 AM
As long as you're putting together a list of people who possess these sets, I have both of them as well. If there's going to be a witch hunt, I wouldn't want to be left out while Bernie and Joe are being burned at the stake.
Witch hunt or no, supporting Foduh is retarded. Don't let your dislike for a few members' strong words turn it into a source of pride. You, Bernie, and Joe are good guys, but PCEFX members that support/own this stuff should be called out and get your heads checked.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 10:02:03 AM
As long as you're putting together a list of people who possess these sets, I have both of them as well. If there's going to be a witch hunt, I wouldn't want to be left out while Bernie and Joe are being burned at the stake.
Just stating it like it is. No need for a witch hunt, because in the end it will work itself out, and honestly its pretty obvious you guys don't give one f*cking iota about the outcome anyway. Its you guys that have to live with the ramifications now of all of this, whether you want to accept responsibility for it or not. If translators decide to stop translating PCE games for fear that Tobias will just sell their work, its you that is going to suffer in the end. Tobias will have already made his scratch and moved on to the next system to plunder and left you f*cking behind to wallow in the filth of it all.
EDIT: Oh yeah, reminds me, didn't Fudoh try to do a large sale of bootleg SFC Nightmare Busters at one point, before he got his shit shut down by the current IP owners?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on March 01, 2015, 10:22:23 AM
Well, thats where you have me wrong. I do take issue with his recent stealing of translations, so yes I guess I do have to share in part of the blame of enabling. I don't know why he did what he did, I don't know why he lied about Sapphire boots back then. I wasn't even here then. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't buy em...but I did. Some of you guys are friends of mine, and maybe I take things a little too much to heart. But, I do care about folks not translating future projects. I doubt that happens, although it may change how things are released in the future.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 10:48:52 AM
But you knew you were buying high priced illegal boots. It didn't take much to figure out what it was going to lead to. Only the naive would have thought no harm, no foul. And Bernie, you don't strike me as the naive type... I like you, I honestly do, but I'm calling it like I see it. May come off as harsh, but this topic came up plenty before, and the possible outcomes were mentioned prior of what would happen if this kind of shit was supported.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bob on March 01, 2015, 11:02:42 AM
Prof, im really not up on the whole backstory, but were you a part of any of the actual work that was stolen? I didnt know if your efforts were exploited along with NW?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 11:13:28 AM
Prof, im really not up on the whole backstory, but were you a part of any of the actual work that was stolen? I didnt know if your efforts were exploited along with NW?
No, but I was part of one of the original parties he worked to dupe on the Sapphire thing, as was Quoth09 and a lot of others. I should go into detail on this, but needless to say you can see me and others posting in really old threads about it from back in 2005. I used my original account in that thread, which goes by my actual name. Tobias went as far as to fake a letter from Hudson Soft to convince us his copies were legit. He was dropping a few of us pm's too showing us his "evidence" of the such and his reassurances that he obtained the Sapphires by legit means and was basically just trying to share the wealth.
I actually went out of my way to try to confirm one way or the next whether they were legit or not by contacting Care4Data and Hudson soft, but it didn't yield much results that were totally helpful, so in the end gave Fudoh the benefit of the doubt. In the end Fudoh busted himself by suddenly having more way more copies to sell, and some of which that had defects. Between that and his Mega Man and Space Fantasy Zone shit, it became pretty obvious at that point that he had went out of his way to scam the PCE scene.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 01, 2015, 11:39:34 AM
Yep I'm sure he's gotten tons of orders now as I clearly specified where to get 'em. Actually we've been planning on doing a show about repros sometime as we each have a couple of others from other people. I have Alien Soldier. I think that's it. Oh wait no I also have Sapphire (and I have ZERO SHAME in owning a bootleg of that). Dave has more than I do. Tobias said there's no obligation to cover 'em. He sent the Xak 3 set without even telling me what they were. So I see this thread fire up and I'm like "Hmm. Well shit." Then the package arrives. But if some of you wanna witch hunt, whatevs. I'm glad I can provide you with things to do with your free time.
Here's a still of some video I shot weeks ago illustrating the difference between real and fake. No clue when we'll do the episode proper. (http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/bonk3.png)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on March 01, 2015, 11:41:41 AM
I believe Bernie.
Prof: I missed the whole Space Fantasy Zone story. Is this related to the sealed SFZ's that were "discovered" around the same time as the Sapphire bootlegs, or is this something more recent?
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 01, 2015, 11:58:14 AM
Joe's comment was misinformed, and did not actually represent the proposal.
...blah blah...
READING IS FUNDAMENTAL
My post was a joke at Joe's expense, but let's get SeRiOuS -- there's not much difference between a disclaimer that says "translated by so-and-so" and a disclaimer that says "<the translation> is freely available at blank.com".
Oh, heck, I'll just repost it (emphasis added for the wayward reader)...
Quote
I agree that a notice on the title screen is actually a good idea for actually *educating* folks.
Let me share a history lesson with everyone here:
Back in the day, lots of DIY punk bands wanted to get their music into as many hands as possible for a fair price. So they charged a fair price via mail order and trusted independent distributors. HOWEVER, lots of greedy bastards (record shops) sold the records at "regular" price, which allowed the record shop to make more profit from ignorant customers.
SO, the bands would put disclaimers on the actual record art "This EP IS AVAILABLE FOR $3.00 from" or "Pay no more than $3.00 for this EP"
This seemingly futile disclaimer actually worked for *some* customers. Many customers are ignorant and remain ignorant. Other customers don't care. But, I guarantee, at least a handful of customers *did care*, and *educated themselves* and stopped filling the pockets of the profiteers.
I was one of those ignorant customers.
Not for long, Thankfully.
Because of a stupid disclaimer.
The point is—even if we only reach a handful of folks, it will prove to be worthwhile.
:)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 01, 2015, 12:12:57 PM
Prof: I missed the whole Space Fantasy Zone story. Is this related to the sealed SFZ's that were "discovered" around the same time as the Sapphire bootlegs, or is this something more recent?
Those dumb things just started popping up on ebay and what not a couple years after Sapphire, 2007-2008 or so I think. I think Tobias was using proxy sellers of some sort to get them listed under different accounts on ebay outside of selling them directly from his own website. I know a couple peeps from here ordered them as time went on. For the life of me I cant remember who though. I think the things were professional labeled short strategy cd-rs with a fancy package. I dont recall either SFZ or Rockman being a pressed disc like Sapphire was. Honestly not worth the asking price.
I also don't think he advertised that they were cd-r's on his normal sales page either. It's something a forum member ended up telling me. Maybe it was Nat. I honestly cant recall who for sure. Fudohs original sale page is still archived for viewing.
My comment was not misinformed, it's right on the money. You guys are saying "Put your name or a disclaimer on the title screen so people won't rip off your translation." I'm saying that if someone DOES rip off your translation and removes your name from the title screen, the translation on said rip-off could still be proven as yours. It would be uploaded to Rom-hacking.net under your name, for example, and the translations would be the same. You guys read into my comment with things that I wasn't even remotely saying. Not surprised with the people in this thread, though.
I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not.
I don't care about him pressing copies with or without my name attached. I care about him selling copies of our translations. I don't want him to do that, period. That's the point. I don't care about my name. I might not even add it to the credit scroll at the end.
While I'm not a coder, a hacker, a translator, a bootlegger, or a customer, I think SamIAm's strategy is far too scorched earth.
I like your idea of not nuking a save, but rather disabling it somehow and re-enabling it with a proper version. I don't know how easy that is to do, however.
I also like adding another message to the forced crash screen.
As for the initial warning message, the one that we would make to cause a crash if it's ever erased by Tobias, I don't think there's any harm to adding a 5 second message to the startup-loading sequence when most games need a few seconds to load anyway. This could be displayed while it is loading.
Quote
Making them fight jacked up bosses or deleting their save isn't going to do anything but piss them off. They aren't going to plow half way through the game, get completely f*cked by malicious code, then suddenly be converted by the experience of having wasted 20 hours and $60 and then start all over again by locating the patch, appying it, and then playing through the first half of the game again.
No need to waste 20 hours; how about having the crash happen after one or two?
Anyway, pissing them off so they don't buy from Tobias is the point. It's just a matter of striking the best balance. We want to piss off as many people who buy his bootlegs of fan-translations as possible, while minimizing the number of them who would completely give up on playing the game via other means.
Remember, the whole crash idea only happens on the off chance that Tobias goes in and actually tries to remove our message saying not to buy from him. The idea of him doing that really pisses me off.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Dicer on March 01, 2015, 03:01:20 PM
Also: Folks, the point of this thread is to EDUCATE.
If you bought stuff from Tobias, don't get your moist panties in a bunch.
We simply hope that you THINK TWICE before buying from him...we honestly feel that you should not support him and we have explained why.
The rest is up to you.
Knowing is half the battle.
You gotta know when to hold 'em...
Who put the bop in the bop-shoo-wop-dee-bop?
I got the free CD's, so I did my part to bring the machine down...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 01, 2015, 03:03:17 PM
So if the goal is to get him to NOT use your translations period, why have a time bomb? Why not just have it not work right away? Or rename the save file to "HOPE_U_DIDNT_PAY_4_DIS_1 or XAK3_ENG_IS_FREE_01 or something.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 01, 2015, 03:24:08 PM
My comment was not misinformed, it's right on the money. You guys are saying "Put your name or a disclaimer on the title screen so people won't rip off your translation." I'm saying that if someone DOES rip off your translation and removes your name from the title screen, the translation on said rip-off could still be proven as yours. It would be uploaded to Rom-hacking.net under your name, for example, and the translations would be the same. You guys read into my comment with things that I wasn't even remotely saying. Not surprised with the people in this thread, though.
I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not.
What are you talking about? Nobody is trying to hide their identity here. Yes, it can be easily learned, nobody cares.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 01, 2015, 03:33:59 PM
Btw, in reference to the Sapphire bootlegs; by the time I caught on to them it seemed, at least to me, that as accurate as they were there was no way they were real. I bought one because they were only $35 at the time. As I said before, I have zero problem with bootlegs. I would go so far as to say they are essential. Organized piracy that disguises itself as legit just to screw noobs is a problem though. $35 ...that's not the greatest price, but it's a lot better than what he eventually started selling them for. More importantly, several eBay auctions passed for legit but we're really these bootlegs. We're talking about $300 or more, because noobs didn't know. Back then seeing any copy of Sapphire was not a common site so when something really accurate looking showed up they had no reason to be suspicious.
It's amazing how much more greedy and brave he has become. He sends out "press review" copies of f*cking PIRATE shit? That's some guts right there. Amazing.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 01, 2015, 04:01:43 PM
So if the goal is to get him to NOT use your translations period, why have a time bomb? Why not just have it not work right away? Or rename the save file to "HOPE_U_DIDNT_PAY_4_DIS_1 or XAK3_ENG_IS_FREE_01 or something.
Think about a logical series of events.
NOTE: This may never happen.
(1) Let us assume that Tobias hired someone to hack out the DIY/fan disclaimer on the title screen.
(2) Let us assume that Tobias would check the game (by briefly playing it) to ensure that altering the title screen did not break the game.
(3) A few of us think that it would be MARVELOUS if Tobias then proceeded to spend his hard-earned Euros to press the disc.
(4) Tobias would have to deal with the ensuing drama, should any arise, if his commissioned version of the game was broken.
PLEASE NOTE: This should answer your question. If not, look at step #2 and #3...Tobias probably wouldn't press a disc if it was immediately obvious that it was broken.
(5) We can never really stop profiteers, but that doesn't mean we can't have fun!!! If you honestly did not understand the humor and sweet comeuppance of the "Anti-Tobias Checksum" ...well, try to smile and/or laugh once in a while. I thought it was a creative, amusing way to thwart Tobias. :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on March 01, 2015, 05:53:09 PM
So if the goal is to get him to NOT use your translations period, why have a time bomb? Why not just have it not work right away? Or rename the save file to "HOPE_U_DIDNT_PAY_4_DIS_1 or XAK3_ENG_IS_FREE_01 or something.
There is no way to stop him from using the same version of the patch that we are going to distribute freely, which will actually work. It has to actually work, or there is no point in making it.
esteban summarized the rest of the idea pretty well. Tobias or whoever can alter a warning message, whether it's before the title screen or the name of the save file or whatever. The idea is to make the game check to see if he has done this, and if he has, to break at a point deep enough in the game that Tobias will not notice until he's already pressed and shipped lots of copies.
If he notices the forced crash before he presses his bootlegs, he has a shot at hacking that out, too. We don't want that.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 01, 2015, 08:16:52 PM
Do you seriously think he doesn't keep an eye on this thread?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on March 01, 2015, 09:26:03 PM
Do you seriously think he doesn't keep an eye on this thread?
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. It's possible to rig up the patch pretty heavily, though, and it's only really important that he doesn't know the fine details. After all, it's one thing to hack out a bit of text at the game's first loading screen; it's quite another to isolate and neutralize multiple cross checks within the game itself. If he's afraid of ruining his bootleg of our translation and doesn't touch our message that says he's a funky buttlover, we win anyway. That's actually preferable to screwing over wayward gamers. Not to mention deterring/screwing over other bootleggers in the future.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on March 02, 2015, 03:38:46 AM
Let me get this straight: Tobias could find a hacker competent enough to remove whatever warning notes you'd add but he'd never find one good enough to disable the time bomb? Such hubris.
As for ol' Sapphire, the only people that heard his story and believed it were fooling themselves. None of Tobias's story ever made a lick of sense.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 02, 2015, 04:07:48 AM
Let me get this straight: Tobias could find a hacker competent enough to remove whatever warning notes you'd add but he'd never find one good enough to disable the time bomb? Such hubris.
I don't think this is unrealistic at all. The warning message could be easy as hell to find, especially if it was just text written with an existing font. The other stuff could be made much much harder to find. In fact, even after reading this stuff, there is no real way he could know for sure the game wasn't rigged to explode. If three or four booby traps were installed and he found them all, there is no way of knowing for sure that there isn't a fifth one.
At this point, as far as I've seen, he has yet to alter code at all. He'd have to join up with someone who is a good PCE hacker, one with loose morals, which could be tough to find. The PCE hacker scene isn't exactly enormous.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Opethian on March 02, 2015, 06:14:13 AM
don't you think he played these games to the end before getting them pressed to disc? lol
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 02, 2015, 06:48:53 AM
Keep in mind that the hack would have to check for the COLOR of the font as well. For example let's say the text is white on a black background and he just changed the text to black. So it's still there, ya just can't see it. There'd have to be a lot of redundancy checks and whatnot. Like: Check in level 1 to see if text code is still there. Then check in level 3. Because you'd only translate level-based games, obviously. But you get my drift. It'd be a lot of hacks to remove. They should all be written differently so he couldn't find 'em by searching via hex. Also hack in an ADPCM voice that sez "Dis translation iz 4 free kna mean my nig?"
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 02, 2015, 07:54:03 AM
It would not be hard. It seriously would not be hard. You just run a hash check on whatever section of code you want to stay put. The entire intro sequence, for example.
The message itself doesn't have to actually be in the check, that only needs to be on the CD once. If you write the check in a number of significantly different ways then they won't stand out significantly when some bag is looking for the code in the ISO. Put one right before the first boss fight, one at the end, one in the save screen, etc. The only way to find them all would be to basically have a really good programmer play all the way through the game and debug the entire thing for ages until he's thwarted by every check and fixes them all one at a time. This is certainly possible, but it's way beyond the normal Tobias way of doing things (file the numbers off, make up a story, octuple the price, profit). At the very least it would require this sponge to do some work.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on March 02, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
I know the Midwest Gaming Classic for example apparently passed a rule in recent years banning the sale of repros. But a few years back there were 3 or 4 vendors selling mostly or primarily repro carts. A lot of them had the same common popular cartridges quite a few of which were fan translations and hacks of existing games.
2014 was the first year that we banned the sales of repros. I think it was mostly due to a fear of lawsuits since Nintendo had their Pokemon booth about 50 feet away from some bootleggers trying to sell NES fantranslations and SNES Earthbound booties for $65 a pop. lol
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on March 02, 2015, 08:26:36 AM
It's like a lock on a door... even a very small deterrent will prevent most thieves from bothering
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 08:49:22 AM
Are there any of these fan translations where the original game is unusually expensive? Xak III is about a $20 game, and Startling Odyssey II is even cheaper. Why can't someone use some contacts in Japan to buy up as many copies of the game as they can find and ship them over here. Then Nightwolve or whoever can have pressed & patched "backups" of the game made complete with custom disc label art. Then they sell the original game to people, and it includes a back-up for "free" (charge people for the cost of the pressed disc, plus your time for performing the service if you see fit). This way they are not providing a pressed repro copy of the game to anyone who does not have the right to a backup copy, and they are offering consumers the option of both buying a legitimate copy of the game and a patched disc directly from the people who did the translation (or an approved third-party.)
It just seems to me that as long as some of these people who do the translations are completely unwilling to make some type of physical product available to those who want something other than a CD-R, there are going to be people like Tobias who are happy to fulfill that need.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
Accidental double post.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on March 02, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
It would not be hard. It seriously would not be hard. You just run a hash check on whatever section of code you want to stay put. The entire intro sequence, for example.
The message itself doesn't have to actually be in the check, that only needs to be on the CD once. If you write the check in a number of significantly different ways then they won't stand out significantly when some bag is looking for the code in the ISO. Put one right before the first boss fight, one at the end, one in the save screen, etc. The only way to find them all would be to basically have a really good programmer play all the way through the game and debug the entire thing for ages until he's thwarted by every check and fixes them all one at a time. This is certainly possible, but it's way beyond the normal Tobias way of doing things (file the numbers off, make up a story, octuple the price, profit). At the very least it would require this sponge to do some work.
This. Joe talks as if this is something from another world, but in fact it's relatively easy, just make a function to check the areas with the warning text, the nametable and custom palette for the special screen in ROM, and that's it. You could even add hidden, compressed routines to check the integrity of the checksum code itself, triggered by something random like a particular enemy being spawned, a sample scheduled to play, etc. See: Mr. Gimmick's BLACK HOLE, Earthbound. It's literally a JMP/JSR $ChecksumRoutine thing to start the verification, what, 3 bytes? And the code itself is likely to be small and will definitely run independently from the "original program"...
Of course it would be even better if Tobias didn't knew at all about this but there's no way that someone like him would bother hunting for all the anti modification routines, he would either half ass it or not press the game at all.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on March 02, 2015, 10:22:25 AM
I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 10:50:23 AM
I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this.
I agree. The fact that he so quickly changed his plans and offered the discs up for free when it certainly looks like he had everything already printed up and ready to go suggests that he is wary of pissing off the community (although not wary enough to avoid selling those translations in the first place). I would bet that he sticks to repros from now on.
I really don't understand the guy. The attention to detail and little extras that he includes with his boxed sets (and the completely redone artwork and manuals) would lead you to believe that this is someone who REALLY loves the Turbo/PC Engine. But the same guy pressed copies of Sapphire and tried to pass them off as real, sold the Rockman translation without permission, and was about to sell two more translations without permission? I don't get it. If the guy is a total scumbag then why isn't he just making straight-up bootlegs and selling those? The little bookmark things, the commemorative coin. Those aren't selling the set. They're just little extras. So why is he doing stuff like that if he's just a bootlegging thief? But then if he isn't a bootlegging thief, then why is he stealing people's work? His behavior totally contradicts itself.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gentlegamer on March 02, 2015, 10:57:42 AM
I had wondered that myself, he obviously has the ability to make very professional looking product and has shown to have few scruples, why not just straight up counterfeit and sell on ebay?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 02, 2015, 11:17:55 AM
I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this.
I agree. The fact that he so quickly changed his plans and offered the discs up for free when it certainly looks like he had everything already printed up and ready to go suggests that he is wary of pissing off the community (although not wary enough to avoid selling those translations in the first place). I would bet that he sticks to repros from now on.
I really don't understand the guy. The attention to detail and little extras that he includes with his boxed sets (and the completely redone artwork and manuals) would lead you to believe that this is someone who REALLY loves the Turbo/PC Engine. But the same guy pressed copies of Sapphire and tried to pass them off as real, sold the Rockman translation without permission, and was about to sell two more translations without permission? I don't get it. If the guy is a total scumbag then why isn't he just making straight-up bootlegs and selling those? The little bookmark things, the commemorative coin. Those aren't selling the set. They're just little extras. So why is he doing stuff like that if he's just a bootlegging thief? But then if he isn't a bootlegging thief, then why is he stealing people's work? His behavior totally contradicts itself.
He is clearly a bootlegger who takes pride in the product...mostly because it allows him to charge a premium price. You gotta hand it to him, he knows his customers (be they collectors or PCE fiends): finicky bastards who love attention to detail, the concept of a "deluxe edition", the occasional unique item (PCE coin) and an overall pleasing aesthetic.
He knows that this will appeal to us (fanatic PCE fans, collectors in general).
...BUT THERE IS ALSO PART OF ME THAT FEELS THAT HE WOULD LOVE FOR SOME CUSTOMERS TO THINK THAT THESE RELEASES were legitimate, "special editions"....legitimate products that are licensed.
I think the overall aesthetics of his offerings are quite nice, actually. I thought he was the designer behind them, but someone has suggested that he actually commissions the design work. Either way, he chooses excellent design work.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on March 02, 2015, 11:22:38 AM
He can probably unload bootlegs faster if he sells them directly from his own site, and so he has to create some sort of facade about doing it out of pure love for the games.
It would not be hard. It seriously would not be hard. You just run a hash check on whatever section of code you want to stay put. The entire intro sequence, for example.
The message itself doesn't have to actually be in the check, that only needs to be on the CD once. If you write the check in a number of significantly different ways then they won't stand out significantly when some bag is looking for the code in the ISO. Put one right before the first boss fight, one at the end, one in the save screen, etc. The only way to find them all would be to basically have a really good programmer play all the way through the game and debug the entire thing for ages until he's thwarted by every check and fixes them all one at a time. This is certainly possible, but it's way beyond the normal Tobias way of doing things (file the numbers off, make up a story, octuple the price, profit). At the very least it would require this sponge to do some work.
This is exactly right.
As the saying goes in encryption, any knot that can be tied can be untied. But it would not take much time for one of our better hackers to load this thing up with several checks that would be enormously time consuming to deal with and would require a really skilled programmer.
And there are a couple of other sneaky tactics that I won't even bring up here.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 02, 2015, 11:25:02 AM
I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this.
I agree. The fact that he so quickly changed his plans and offered the discs up for free when it certainly looks like he had everything already printed up and ready to go suggests that he is wary of pissing off the community (although not wary enough to avoid selling those translations in the first place). I would bet that he sticks to repros from now on.
I really don't understand the guy. The attention to detail and little extras that he includes with his boxed sets (and the completely redone artwork and manuals) would lead you to believe that this is someone who REALLY loves the Turbo/PC Engine. But the same guy pressed copies of Sapphire and tried to pass them off as real, sold the Rockman translation without permission, and was about to sell two more translations without permission? I don't get it. If the guy is a total scumbag then why isn't he just making straight-up bootlegs and selling those? The little bookmark things, the commemorative coin. Those aren't selling the set. They're just little extras. So why is he doing stuff like that if he's just a bootlegging thief? But then if he isn't a bootlegging thief, then why is he stealing people's work? His behavior totally contradicts itself.
I've run into bootlegs of 3DO and Neo Cd stuff that was of pretty decent quality. It really just depends on who is doing it. Even in the bootleg world there are people who take pride in their presentations. Also, it helps their products sell better.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gentlegamer on March 02, 2015, 12:04:22 PM
We need to invent a single use encryption key that is distributed by the translation makers that can patch a single disc. Let the translators distribute it on an individual basis to the community and keep out leachers and bootleggers.
But then again, I'm sure that would get cracked like everything else.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arjak on March 02, 2015, 12:28:34 PM
I don't know what good it will do (probably none), but I have just sent the following e-mail to Tobias:
Quote
Tobias,
I am writing this email as a result of a controversy that has arisen regarding your latest releases through PCEWorks. There has been a lot of bad blood going around about your recent releases of fan translations of Xak III and Startling Odyssey II because, from what I've heard from the translators and hackers themselves, you had no permission from or previous discussion with them before you created a product based on their work.
I really enjoyed your Turbo Duo box set, as I do not wish to have to take out a bank loan to own and enjoy even just ONE of these four games, and seeing how the only alternative was to burn some CD-Rs and hope for the best, I was very willing to buy your product.
However, the fact that you apparently made no attempt to contact the people responsible for these translation patches before attempting to profit from their work (Let's be honest here; the fact that your individual releases have different prices, seemingly based on the desirability of the game, is a pretty clear indicator that you hope to profit from this. I'm pretty sure that CDs don't cost more to create depending on the data put on them.) is something that I find disgustingly dishonest.
I know that this is not the first time something like this has occurred with you. I understand that you also attempted in the past to sell a port of the original Mega Man to PCE-CD that was made by a friend of mine without permission as well. Before that, I heard that you initially tried to pass off your first reproduction, Sapphire, as legit unsold stock.
These actions have caused you to have a very bad reputation with parts of the PCE community, especially those whose work you have attempted to profit from, including friends of mine whom I have great respect for. I was willing to look the other way for your Turbo Duo repro set, but after this, I wish to inform you that I will NOT be purchasing your reproductions of the Xak III and SO2 fan translations, and unless you make a serious attempt to make amends and change your strategies for dealing with the PCE fan and hobbyist programming communities, and attempt to work with them, and not just profit from them, I will not be purchasing ANY of your future products.
You make great repros, Tobias, but I cannot purchase them in good conscience, and I won't, until you stop hurting my friends and the PCE community at large, whether intentionally or not.
Sincerely,
Collin
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 12:56:50 PM
Damn 'jak, that's a good e-mail. I was thinking of e-mailing him myself, but you spoke much more eloquently than I could have.
I have absolutely no problem with his bootlegs nor with the price he charges. He's going after those of us who have collectardy tendencies. Those without them can just play burned CD-Rs. But there is just no excuse for his other behavior. Like the Sapphire thing. He should have just printed up nice manuals and inserts with vastly different artwork, like he's doing now, and sold them as high-end repros. He would have made plenty of money. And as far as the translations go? He could have and should have reached out to the guys who did the translations to try to work out a business arrangement. And when that didn't work out, he should have gone back to making repros of other high-dollar games.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 02, 2015, 01:10:36 PM
Why he does it:
I don't know the guy, but I've seen this kind of behavior before, most famously from ChrisR and Crazy Dion of Neo Geo Freak USA.
When you love something so much (PCE and Neo being the two coolest systems of all time) there is a certain part of many fans that makes them want to be in on the action. They want to be part of it. They want some of that awesomeness to somehow rub off on them. This kind of shit happens all the time in many scenes in many weird and f*cked up ways, but with Tobias and NGF it resulted in them pretending to be publishers of shit when in fact they just took some existing shit, f*cked it up, and sold it as their own. Obviously NGF wanted to be SNK, Tobias wants to be...Working Designs, aparently. WDs contrived tat being the closest to a gilded coin and cardboard that is way way too glossy.
The way he refered to certain games as "requested" makes him seem like...awesome and popular. He can't actually make anything himself that would honestly earn praise, so he's trying to sell other people's awesome shit and get on that bandwagon. That's why he's not selling pirate Avatar Blurays at the pub for $1, there is no hype to vampire off of. He needs to feel like he's a part of the creation.
And it works. Personally, I'll collect anything I feel like, but any PCE game that was not manufactured with the approval of Hudson back in the day will never be real*, and since that door is long closed, I'll not be buying any "new release" or "special edition" PCE stuff from him or anyone. However, younger generations have no respect for "legitimate authority". A genuine game and a bootleg are the same thing to them, games. This is why he'll have customers. That guilder coin just BLOWS PEOPLE'S MINDS, but to me its and terrific as Sparky's carbon fibber fuel filler flap. **
And he will have his defenders, I'm sure, forever. People still defend NGF, astoundingly, usually people that are even more mentally ill than NGF are.
*homebrew is obviously excluded **fake as f*ck
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on March 02, 2015, 01:28:54 PM
I really enjoyed your Turbo Duo box set, as I do not wish to have to take out a bank loan to own and enjoy even just ONE of these four games, and seeing how the only alternative was to burn some CD-Rs and hope for the best, I was very willing to buy your product.
Damn 'jak, that's a good e-mail. I was thinking of e-mailing him myself, but you spoke much more eloquently than I could have.
I have absolutely no problem with his bootlegs nor with the price he charges.
Sometimes I just shake my head and die a little inside when I see pure self-interested moral indignation like that.
To paraphrase that argument ...
Quote
Dear Tobias, I'm more than happy to buy the TV that you stole from the guy 2 streets over, it was such a good price and I don't know him. But damn you to hell for stealing my neighbor's TV, I would never, ever buy that from you, you dirty thief!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 03:13:54 PM
Meh. I had a whole response typed out, but to be honest I think it's just going to piss everyone off, RoyVegas style.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arjak on March 02, 2015, 03:30:02 PM
I really enjoyed your Turbo Duo box set, as I do not wish to have to take out a bank loan to own and enjoy even just ONE of these four games, and seeing how the only alternative was to burn some CD-Rs and hope for the best, I was very willing to buy your product.
To paraphrase that argument ...
Quote
Dear Tobias, I'm more than happy to buy the TV that you stole from the guy 2 streets over, it was such a good price and I don't know him. But damn you to hell for stealing my neighbor's TV, I would never, ever buy that from you, you dirty thief!
:-k
#-o
](*,)
I cannot argue with the logic of your accusation, because you are absolutely 100% correct to call me out on this...
*Sigh*
I suppose this is the part where I'm supposed to make excuses and/or try to tear you down by pointing out your own failings in order to draw attention away from myself and how you made me look like a complete hypocritical jackass...
Uh...Um...
I plead Temporary Insanity! The eBay resellers! They MADE me do it! :lol:
In all seriousness, though, you are absolutely right to call me out on the carpet here. Stealing from NEC/Hudson Soft should be no different from stealing from someone like Nightwolve or SamIAm. For some illogical reason, it just felt different. More personal.
I humbly apologize for my folly. :oops:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 02, 2015, 03:36:57 PM
Sometimes I just shake my head and die a little inside when I see pure self-interested moral indignation like that.
To paraphrase that argument ...
Quote
Dear Tobias, I'm more than happy to buy the TV that you stole from the guy 2 streets over, it was such a good price and I don't know him. But damn you to hell for stealing my neighbor's TV, I would never, ever buy that from you, you dirty thief!
For some people things like this don't hit home unless it actually happens to them on some level. Until then it's pretty easy to stay detached and just enjoy those pretty box sets sitting on the shelf and pretend it's all victimless crime. It reminds me of Richard Stanley getting f*cked over by all the Hardware bootleggers.
At one point there was multiple people bootlegging his film and tossing it up on ebay and on different sites for sale on DVD, because other then VHS and Laserdisc, there was no current legit retail copy available outside of a German dvd release. Rights on that version were even somewhat in question, but it was released by a legit business that had rights to a lot of movies, and the transfer they sold was fairly superior to the Laserdisc visually, so it was pretty obvious they had access to superior source material to use for the transfer.
Anyway, Stanley was kind of powerless to stop it all. The rights to Hardware were sold to a lot of different studios over the years in behind the scenes deals, so you had MGM, Miramax, Disney etc fighting over the rights to his film, while bootleggers were making good profits off it, etc, and it clearly bothered him as he would mention it in interviews. Eventually it got officially re-released here in the US on dvd and bluray, kinda like with his other film Dust Devil. Not sure how much he made off the official release. The thunder was kinda stolen from it due to all the bootlegging over the years. I know the retail price of it dropped down pretty fast after release.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on March 02, 2015, 03:53:23 PM
In all seriousness, though, you are absolutely right to call me out on the carpet here. Stealing from NEC/Hudson Soft should be no different from stealing from someone like Nightwolve or SamIAm. For some illogical reason, it just felt different. More personal.
Sometimes people pleasantly surprise me, and make me feel that there's some hope for the human race.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on March 02, 2015, 04:05:10 PM
The following is not directed at anyone in particular.
This whole world of retro games is full of moral ambiguities. I can't deny that making a translation patch might actually go against the wishes of the people who made the games, regardless of whether people using the patch own a legit copy of the game.
But the reason why I really want translate a lot of these games is because I want to share experiences and deepen understandings of what to me is a beautiful cultural phenomenon. I'm pretty sure that that's what most fan translators and hackers hope for as well. By my way of thinking, this intention itself is noble enough to override even the hypothetical wish of a creator for a game not to be translated.
You may not agree with that, but bear with me for a minute anyway.
So, is having a physical manual and image-printed disc a necessary component of the "experience" I want to share? Maybe it is. For me, it isn't, and that probably makes me biased. But I'm afraid that when people buy repros of translations or anything else, there's something else going on that has little to do with "experience" or "understanding". I honestly think it's more about satisfying some kind of greed. Even if the guy selling it is only just breaking even, I think that for too many users, when limited physical copies for sale enter the picture, the entire reason for getting the translation morphs away from the reason I had for making it.
That's why any talk of repro sales makes me uncomfortable, never mind the actual legal danger of making such things. If one of the hackers I work with wants to get behind a run of repros for one of our translations, then I'm open to compromise, but frankly I just don't like any of it. I'd like to share translations of the manuals, and I get a kick out of seeing photoshopped English versions of all the materials, but the simple act of selling at any price crosses a line for me. I can no longer look a hypothetical creator in the face and tell him my actions were for the greater good, because I'm afraid that real result was profit and trophies. There's nothing noble about that to me.
Tobias/Fudoh is an a$$hole. I think we can all agree on that. But I hope that this episode can make people reflect on what the best roles for both fan translations and reproductions are within our crazy little community.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 04:21:35 PM
Dear Tobias, I'm more than happy to buy the TV that you stole from the guy 2 streets over, it was such a good price and I don't know him. But damn you to hell for stealing my neighbor's TV, I would never, ever buy that from you, you dirty thief!
That's a fallacious analogy. I'm not saying that piracy is not illegal, but that's just straw-man bullshit.
What this whole argument comes down to is really simple. There's what we want (and what we will do to get it) versus what we can legitimately have.
Do you guys not see the similarities between these situations?
Situation A: I want to play Dungeon Explorer II. I don't have $400 (or don't want to spend it) so I skirt the law and buy a bootleg for $40.
Situation B: You guys want to play Xak III, but you don't know how to read Japanese (and don't want to spend the time to learn.) So you download a patch that someone made that makes unauthorized changes to someone else's intellectual property so that it is now in a form that you can digest. Nevermind the fact that probably 95%+ of the people using said patch are patching an ISO of the game that they downloaded, since they don't actually own the game.
Both situations are showing a lack of respect to the IP owners. You want to play Xak III? Petition the IP owners to get it translated and released here, on the Virtual Console or something. Or take your translation patch to them and show them that the work has already been done. They say no? Tough shit, that doesn't give you the right to do it yourself. I want to play Dungeon Explorer II? I can petition Hudson to release the game on the US Virtual Console. They say no? Tough shit, that doesn't give me the right to pirate the game, or buy it from a bootlegger.
Edit: I just read SamIAm's response, and am glad to see what he said. The only thing I would say to that is that I didn't buy Tobias' sets because I needed pretty shelf shit, but because I want to play PRESSED copies of the games. I would have been fine with disc-only presses at a fraction of the price. I would also be more than fine with buying official presses directly from Hudson. If Tobias can do it, then so can Hudson, on a mail order-only basis. Movie and television studios have done the same thing, releasing DVD sets of low-demand movies and TV shows. The game companies choose not to do it.
And just to make myself absolutely clear, I have NO PROBLEM with people making translation patches. I think it's f*cking awesome that people do it. But please don't act like it's a completely legitimate activity while bootlegging isn't. You can't have it both ways, and say that "game company X doesn't care what we do to this old game" and then also say "you are stealing from game company X by pirating or bootlegging that game."
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: tknjin on March 02, 2015, 04:51:43 PM
I love the PC engine, and I love the new experiences with each of the games that I add on to my collection whenever I purchase these originals. I did not know that that XAK III was a translation done by one of the memebers. It is fantastic to keep on seeing these games being translated. Not only that, but then seeing the picture that NightWolve responded to Kisaku about those pressed discs being bought from that Tobias guy really is a sad one. I knew I saw those, but I never knew it was the same guy who made the PCEworks stuff. It is very unfortunate to see that these games are being bootlegged for profit off of the PCE/TG16 community. It is good that I know of this now because I know now that I will not refer anyone to this guy.
I myself have wanted to do translation projects for saturn and pc engine stuff, but its always things like this that I am afraid of. I am always on the fence of something like this happening, and it makes one feel as all that work that was meant for the community out of the kindness of our hearts is just being pushed aside. Unfortunately, I do not have as much time as I used to, but to those people that do dedicate their time and patience. I salute ya because I know how it is like to translate something you love for people. It is very rewarding
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on March 02, 2015, 04:59:37 PM
Quote
But the reason why I really want translate a lot of these games is because I want to share experiences and deepen understandings of what to me is a beautiful cultural phenomenon. I'm pretty sure that that's what most fan translators and hackers hope for as well. By my way of thinking, this intention itself is noble enough to override even the hypothetical wish of a creator for a game not to be translated.
From my own POV, I suspect that you'd find that most of the actual creative side of the industry wouldn't mind at all ... as long as it's not taking money (or potential money) out of their children's mouths.
From the business side of the industry, that usually means, as long as it's done outside the territories in which there are officially licensed sales.
There are some prima-donna types that need personal control over everything, but fewer than you might think.
It's kind of nice when someone has fond enough memories of the work that you've done that they'll spend considerable amount of their own time and energy to make it meaningfully available to other people ... as long as, once again, money isn't involved.
If money is involved ... then it's a business transaction, and everyone that's had a part in the creation deserves a slice ... anything else is blatantly unfair.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on March 02, 2015, 05:10:41 PM
So since everyone pirates something in some fashion, therefore everyone is a pirate and nobody has any right to try and make distinctions between different levels of sleeziness. Since nobody is morally perfect, nobody should even try to be decent.
Its like...you try to teach someone table manners and after 30 seconds they accidentally drop their fork, say "f*ck it" and just eat the whole damn meal with their hands.
Its not about the act of pirating in itself. Piracy of 20 year old games is a victimless crime. There is no way me buying an $1000 eBay copy of DEII is going to generate more money for Hudson than me pirating it. Neither one will steer me towards or away from a Virtual Console version since that's a completely different thing. Legally speaking, the company that made that shit doesn't exist anymore and half the creative staff have died or left the industry. If you actually did manage to arrange an agreement for a physical reprint of a PCE game, the parent company would probably lose money on the deal just from legal costs associated with creating the license. DEII is an artifact of history. Its not for sale anymore. When that game came out Bill Clinton was early in his first term. Nobody had cel phones and the internet was all text. Cars mostly still didn't have airbags. Playing "Smear the Queer" on school playgrounds was still totally cool. There were only three Star Wars movies with no others in site. Anime was still good. Gilbert Gottfried was on USA Network every Saturday night. It was another time, almost another planet. You can't go back and give money to those people. They aren't f*cking there anymore.
Its about who you give the money to. What kind of garbage you're enriching. What you paid for, who got the money, who deserved the money, that kind of shit. Its subtle, but that's what being a grown up is about. This isn't a f*cking GI Joe cartoon.
I can't explain it, I guess.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on March 02, 2015, 05:37:36 PM
Quote
Do you guys not see the similarities between these situations?
Situation A: I want to play Dungeon Explorer II. I don't have $400 (or don't want to spend it) so I skirt the law and buy a bootleg for $40.
Situation B: You guys want to play Xak III, but you don't know how to read Japanese (and don't want to spend the time to learn.) So you download a patch that someone made..........
Both situations are showing a lack of respect to the IP owners. Petition the IP owners to get it translated and released here, on the Virtual Console or something.
I disagree with the "lack of respect" comment. Fan translations are an expression of love for the game, whereas selling illegal bootlegs for profit is an expression of love for money. The part about petitioning the IP owners is irrelevant. We don't show respect to an artist by imposing on them to alter or further commodify their work; we show respect by appreciating their work.
Japan has very tolerant attitudes regarding unauthorized derivative works, to the extent that there are actually enormous conventions to showcase those unauthorized derivative works. This is important because it demonstrates an understanding of how people -- for better or worse -- naturally display their love, admiration, and respect towards artistic works.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 02, 2015, 05:57:01 PM
Zeta: Some of us give money to Tobias because no one else is stepping up and filling the void. You guys constantly talk about how cheap and easy it is to get pressed CDs made. So why does it take a "sleaze" like him to get it done?
I TOTALLY get what you're saying, although I don't think that the fact that I've bought stuff from Tobias and am not apologizing for it now makes me less of an adult. My thing is that at least he just saw the desire and demand for something and just f*cking did it. Here, we have some long ass thread about "hey maybe we should press some games" and nothing to show for it. But if anyone followed through with it, then you'd be stealing business from Tobias. Same thing goes for the translations. People want to buy copies of the translations, but guys like SamIAm don't want to go down that road. I already made what I thought was a good suggestion for handling that, but it would take organization and the fronting of money, and it would never happen. So in the absence of an option that pays the proper respect to the guys who made the translation, people will buy what's available.*
Emerald, I also get what you're saying but it kind of sounds like you're using a cultural loophole. And a translation does not in my opinion count as a "derivative work". You are directly altering the original work. Again, I don't care. I'm just saying that both scenarios involve using unauthorized and morally questionable means to knock down the barriers stopping us from playing certain games.
I guess to a certain extent I am just playing Devil's Advocate here, but I am just trying to point out that really we are just talking about different levels of "morally questionable activity" based on what we wrongly perceive as our "right" to play whatever game we want.
* Just on a personal note I will go on record as saying that I will NEVER buy one of these translations from Tobias or anyone else unless they are sanctioned by the people who did the translation.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 02, 2015, 06:48:13 PM
INTERMISSION:
I honestly do not understand anyone who equates "non-profit fan translation project" with "selling reproductions for significant profit"...for an IP that has little to no chance of ever being translated.
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT MAKES DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN MAJOR AND MINOR ETHICAL TRANSGRESSIONS.
You can guess where I would categorize (1) a non-profit fan-translation of a dead IP that will never be localized VS. (2) a business that sells reproductions for maximum profit.
Just to be clear: I EVALUATE BOTH THE (a) GREED AND THE (b) HARM OF A ONE'S DEEDS before I support or condemn his/her actions.
Others have already spoken eloquently on the moral/ethical distinctions between #1 and #2, so I won't rehash what has already been said.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: IvanBeavkov on March 03, 2015, 04:55:55 AM
So, is having a physical manual and image-printed disc a necessary component of the "experience" I want to share? Maybe it is. For me, it isn't, and that probably makes me biased.
I'm new here but I feel I can offer a reason that some people would have for having a manual and nice packaging as an important part of the experience. Not a justification just a reason.
Now I'm not really a fan of repos but, I was really tempted by the Dungeon Explorer II repo. Though due to the fact that it was only part of a 4 disc package, and the shadyness of the seller, that I discovered as I looked into it more, turned me off of it.
Here is why I would like to have a nice manufactured version over a burned cd.
When I got my turbo the first Dungeon Explorer wes the third game I got for the system. Loved the game and played it to death. Beat it with I think 5 of the characters got stuck on the 10th boss with most of the rest. Really just a great game. So when I heard that a sequal was comming I was super excited. Well I didn't get it but a friend of mine did. We were the only 2 people I knew of that had turbos. I remember borrowing it off him over Christmas break. I beat it in one sitting, started after dinner finished between 3 & 4 in the morning. I then proceeded to beat it with as many other characters as I could before I returned it.
Well I didn't get my own copy then because my friend had it and we didn't have a lot of overlap of games. Well the game has since shot up in price and my buddy has sold his turbo games, not to me the bastard, and it looks like I won't be able to ever get a copy of that game. Now I've played a burned copy but its not quite the same. I mean the game is the same and still fun but the memories are not attached to a cdr. Sometimes I like to pick up some of my old games and look at the art and flip through the book just for the memories. So seeing a nice looking repro, even if not exactly the same, for a good enough price was very tempting.
Well that is my 2 cents on why some people would be interested in a nice version over a cdr or a flash drive. This reason also dosen't directly apply to translations but hopefully gives a tiny bit of insight into some of the demand.
If you made it this far thanks for reading. :D
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: DarkKobold on March 03, 2015, 05:12:48 AM
Arrived, by pceworks. (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z34/RANCE6/DSC_0415_1.jpg)
Congrats on your purchase from a known lying scam artist who perpetrated fraud against the public by claiming his Sapphire bootlegs were authentic when he first starting doing this, even going as far as fabricating a document by Hudson Soft to back his claims up, and who slapped my Xak III fan translation on to these CDs without permission, not because he feared I would say no, but because of greed and the desire to pocket 100% of whatever net profit he would make minus cost of production per CD, etc. Also add Tru/John and his SO II translation who also was not contacted (I have yet to report this to Tru, but I will time permitting), etc. So yes, congrats! Supporting scam artists is brag worthy!
Oh come on.... What did you really hope to achieve with this post?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esadajr on March 03, 2015, 06:54:23 AM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on March 03, 2015, 06:58:25 AM
Lightscribe + decent printer > Tobias.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on March 03, 2015, 07:02:16 AM
Quote from: DarkKobold
Oh come on.... What did you really hope to achieve with this post?
What do you hope to achieve with your perpetual troll presence here ? You let me name your description ("The Defiant") and your choice of avatar is also in response to my situation with Xseed Games which shares similar behavior actually with Tobias. And you want what now, a serious debate ? Is that even a serious question of yours ? Weird that you quoted my post from the other thread, pasted it here and now demand an answer to one particular sarcastic post in a sea of them that occur here on a regular damn basis...
Your creepy lurking ass isn't worth the time of day for anything serious so my response to you is the Necro approved one of go f--k yourself. There's your answer. Can't figure out what I "hoped to achieve" with that or any other post of mine, I guess I'll just have to leave you wondering, won't I ??
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 03, 2015, 07:16:29 AM
Arrived, by pceworks. (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z34/RANCE6/DSC_0415_1.jpg)
Congrats on your purchase from a known lying scam artist who perpetrated fraud against the public by claiming his Sapphire bootlegs were authentic when he first starting doing this, even going as far as fabricating a document by Hudson Soft to back his claims up, and who slapped my Xak III fan translation on to these CDs without permission, not because he feared I would say no, but because of greed and the desire to pocket 100% of whatever net profit he would make minus cost of production per CD, etc. Also add Tru/John and his SO II translation who also was not contacted (I have yet to report this to Tru, but I will time permitting), etc. So yes, congrats! Supporting scam artists is brag worthy!
Oh come on.... What did you really hope to achieve with this post?
Oh come on.... What did you really hope to achieve with this post?
What do you hope to achieve with your perpetual troll presence here ? You let me name your description ("The Defiant") and your choice of avatar is also in response to my situation with Xseed Games which shares similar behavior actually with Tobias. And you want what now, a serious debate ? Is that even a serious question of yours ? Weird that you quoted my post from the other thread, pasted it here and now demand an answer to one particular sarcastic post in a sea of them that occur here on a regular damn basis...
Your creepy lurking ass isn't worth the time of day for anything serious so my response to you is the Necro approved one of go f--k yourself. There's your answer. Can't figure out what I "hoped to achieve" with that or any other post of mine, I guess I'll just have to leave you wondering, won't I ??
Creep is my name for you. Do we really need to bring that thread back?
Also, I brought it here, as it is more relevant.
I ask again, what did you hope to achieve?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 03, 2015, 07:37:46 AM
Oh come on.... What did you really hope to achieve with this post?
What do you hope to achieve with your perpetual troll presence here ? You let me name your description ("The Defiant") and your choice of avatar is also in response to my situation with Xseed Games which shares similar behavior actually with Tobias. And you want what now, a serious debate ? Is that even a serious question of yours ? Weird that you quoted my post from the other thread, pasted it here and now demand an answer to one particular sarcastic post in a sea of them that occur here on a regular damn basis...
Your creepy lurking ass isn't worth the time of day for anything serious so my response to you is the Necro approved one of go f--k yourself. There's your answer. Can't figure out what I "hoped to achieve" with that or any other post of mine, I guess I'll just have to leave you wondering, won't I ??
Creep is my name for you. Do we really need to bring that thread back?
Also, I brought it here, as it is more relevant.
I ask again, what did you hope to achieve?
A better question is, what do you hope to achieve? Outside of Nintega, I cant think of many others being so unwanted on this forum as much as you are.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on March 03, 2015, 07:43:34 AM
If you really have to ask what he hoped to achieve, you might be retarded.
It's obvious the point was to drive the point into the person that they inadvertently supported a f*ckup.
They will likely feel bad about this, and seeing their purchase will now be a constant reminder to be more informed about purchasing decisions like this in the future.
You're the worst defiant ever.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on March 03, 2015, 07:50:39 AM
Zeta: Some of us give money to Tobias because no one else is stepping up and filling the void. You guys constantly talk about how cheap and easy it is to get pressed CDs made. So why does it take a "sleaze" like him to get it done?
I TOTALLY get what you're saying, although I don't think that the fact that I've bought stuff from Tobias and am not apologizing for it now makes me less of an adult. My thing is that at least he just saw the desire and demand for something and just f*cking did it. Here, we have some long ass thread about "hey maybe we should press some games" and nothing to show for it. But if anyone followed through with it, then you'd be stealing business from Tobias. Same thing goes for the translations. People want to buy copies of the translations, but guys like SamIAm don't want to go down that road. I already made what I thought was a good suggestion for handling that, but it would take organization and the fronting of money, and it would never happen. So in the absence of an option that pays the proper respect to the guys who made the translation, people will buy what's available.*
* Just on a personal note I will go on record as saying that I will NEVER buy one of these translations from Tobias or anyone else unless they are sanctioned by the people who did the translation.
Good points.
First order of business: ruin Tobias.
Next on agenda: find a translator, hacker, or forum member willing to grow a pair and meet demand by pressing some nice facsimiles without gouging anyone. (This will never happen.)
Solution: chill out. Let the urge for shiny collectable things die... along with hopes for happiness, true love, and escaping poverty. Never be complete. Make spine labels with Sharpie. Burn shitty ink-jet printables. Play patched games in modified XBOX to preserve Duo laser.
Happy ending: Aaron gets rid of Habboland theme. DarkKobold crawls in hole and dies. Pizza party! Fap fest!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gentlegamer on March 03, 2015, 08:20:33 AM
b-but I like Habboland
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: vestcoat on March 03, 2015, 01:29:11 PM
As for ol' Sapphire, the only people that heard his story and believed it were fooling themselves. None of Tobias's story ever made a lick of sense.
Fudoh's yarn reads like a house of lies today, but it was somewhat believable in 2005. No one had ever seen a posthumously-pirated PCE game before. Reproductions were in their infancy even on popular consoles. Mindrec had literally scoured the Earth (albeit not very thoroughly) and couldn't find anyone willing to replicate a PCE game. The official word from the tech people at the time (TZD, MindRec, etc.) was that the disc format was extinct. Cheap printers weren't as good, PCEFX didn't have a repair forum, Sparky wasn't making fancy labels, D-Lite was ruining the right headphone channel in brand-new TE's with his mono sound fix, and no one knew how to repair a Duo yet.
Admittedly, I WANTED to believe I was buying a real Sapphire, but whatever. The scene was ignorant about a lot of things back then.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on March 04, 2015, 04:11:40 AM
As soon as it was known that it was made by care4data in europe, it was OBVIOUS that it wasn't made by Hudson.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 04, 2015, 07:57:10 AM
Play patched games in modified XBOX to preserve Duo laser.
Eff that! The Xbox laser is worse than the Duo. Mine has a very difficult time reading pressed games. It reads DVD-Rs much easier. And you can't just replace the drive with another. Each drive is married to the console. That sucks. f*ckin' Xbox, man.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 04, 2015, 08:08:01 AM
As soon as it was known that it was made by care4data in europe, it was OBVIOUS that it wasn't made by Hudson.
To be honest half the people I knew who purchased a Fudoh copy had no idea it was pressed by Care4Data. That knowledge wasn't made available until people actually got their copies in hand, opened them, and started posting about it. And there were plenty of buyers out there who did not frequent this forum, who had no idea to look at the company stamp on the disc.
And as for Hudson themselves, getting them to confirm or deny production of the things was a mess. Their email responses were mostly about feigning ignorance of the situation. In retrospect I suspect they had probably already been annoyed by used game shops in Japan about the very same thing, since these were popping up over there too. My personal stance on the issue back then was to give Fudoh benefit of doubt, concerning how he was saying he originally obtained them, and to remain neutral on the disc legitimacy until Hudson would confirm otherwise.
Fudoh went out of his way to make these look legit, even faking boxes from Hudson to hold the games in to make it look like he obtained a lot of new old stock. Then you had him posting that supposed letter from Hudson. Basically all his proof they may be legit was not just to boost sales, which it did do, but to also take attention off of him as the potential bootlegger. I think at some point he just decided he didn't care anymore if people knew it was him or not when he saw the chance to make more money though. Basically around the time he started bootlegging Rockman and Space Fantasy Zone.
Its kinda funny, my view of things way back then. Back then I used to not mind buying boots, if I knew what they were and they looked interesting. I used to grab those Famicom multi carts when I'd see them cheap, and I'd nab any funny looking pressed 3DO boots I'd come across that were cheap too. I'd go out of my way to buy the stuff, not really to save money, but just because the stuff was kind of a novelty to me. Seeing the harm Fudoh did though with the Sapphire mess, not just to this community, but normal pce collectors and fans elsewhere in the world, used game shops etc., it just really changed how I felt about this stuff.
The fact is Fudoh had no love for the PCE/TG ever at any given point. He didn't care about its fans, its forum driven communities, or the dealers and import shops still taking the time and giving the shelf space to make sure this stuff could still be bought and sold 10 years later. He had no concern about how his actions would impact any of it. His only concern was if something was affecting his cash flow. When it was he would take action to keep the cash coming in, like he did with faking the Sapphire evidence.
If he really was just doing it for the community, he would never had lied about the Sapphire mess to begin with. He would have come clean and went out of his way to make sure people knew they were repros, and sold them cheaper. As it stands now, if he cared about the community and just wanted to spread the PCE love, he would be selling ALL his current warez at cost, at the same low price, not at the inflated 1990s new retail prices he is asking for now.
Lets be clear on this. Fudoh doesn't care about you playing and owning a pressed disc, and preserving said games legacy in any sort of way. If he thought he could get away with selling cd-rs of the stuff at the same stupid inflated price, he would do that instead to save a few pennies. But he knows people want pressed disc. He is using that as an angle to get his current warez sold at said very unreasonably high prices.
The only reason he is willing to take a loss on the Xak and Startling Odyssey II disc is because he got busted by the translators and he wants to calm the situation. He is making a lot of money off of everything else, so this is chump change for him, plus he will still have suckers buying the packaged copies for the inflated mark ups. In the end he has no real intention to make legitimate amends for what he has done to the PCE community prior, or to do it any real favors or selfless acts of generosity. Everything he does has a motive or angle and it all revolves around $$$.
While I'm not the greatest supporter of the idea, what has been mentioned prior of just pressing the stuff here and giving them out at cost behind the scenes to forum members here specifically would be a worlds better alternative then to continue to give this a$$hole money. At least then it would be you guys doing it for yourself, for your own community.
No money will be made, and at that point the attention that would be generated would be minimal so you wouldn't have to sweat some company sending cease and desist notices. No one take credit for it. Attach no names to the shipping address. In fact, when you mail them out, just mail them out with a fake mailing address or something for the sender.
Consider it a community action. The motive would be out of love of said games and this community, not for lining said pockets with cash. You keep it low key, not for profit, and not on ebay or in the sales threads, and don't do it with crap like Dracula X, which too common a title. Handle it all behind the scenes, via pm and email. And don't let members with below 500 post jump in trying to buy it all up.
Outside of that, just buy the f*cking PCE versions of said games or save up and buy legit copies, or play burns. As is, anyone who wanted something like Godzilla or Dungeon Explorer II could have gotten Japanese copies for decent prices easily.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on March 04, 2015, 08:56:44 AM
Quote
While I'm not the greatest supporter of the idea, what has been mentioned prior of just pressing the stuff here and giving them out at cost behind the scenes to forum members here specifically would be a worlds better alternative then to continue to give this a$$hole money. At least then it would be you guys doing it for yourself, for your own community.
No money will be made, and at that point the attention that would be generated would be minimal so you wouldn't have to sweat some company sending cease and desist notices. No one take credit for it. Attach no names to the shipping address. In fact, when you mail them out, just mail them out with a fake mailing address or something for the sender.
Consider it a community action. The motive would be out of love of said games and this community, not for lining said pockets with cash. You keep it low key, not for profit, and not on ebay or in the sales threads, and don't do it with crap like Dracula X, which too common a title. Handle it all behind the scenes, via pm and email. And don't let members with below 500 post jump in trying to buy it all up.
:lol: You have read my mind sir.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on March 04, 2015, 10:03:15 AM
To be honest half the people I knew who purchased a Fudoh copy had no idea it was pressed by Care4Data. That knowledge wasn't made available until people actually got their copies in hand, opened them, and started posting about it.
I should've said that I meant that in the context of the discussion HERE. People were arguing that they were real even after it was known where they were made and Tobias had posted his illogical stories about them being reprints done by Hudson in '99 (more than three years after Hudson had made anything for PCE or even PC-FX), reprints that were supposedly 'not good enough' yet they sold them anyway. Just the fact that he was selling them for pennies on the dollar should've made it pretty clear that they were boots, really.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 04, 2015, 12:15:48 PM
To be honest half the people I knew who purchased a Fudoh copy had no idea it was pressed by Care4Data. That knowledge wasn't made available until people actually got their copies in hand, opened them, and started posting about it.
I should've said that I meant that in the context of the discussion HERE. People were arguing that they were real even after it was known where they were made and Tobias had posted his illogical stories about them being reprints done by Hudson in '99 (more than three years after Hudson had made anything for PCE or even PC-FX), reprints that were supposedly 'not good enough' yet they sold them anyway. Just the fact that he was selling them for pennies on the dollar should've made it pretty clear that they were boots, really.
I wouldn't really say pennies on the dollar. I think what I paid for mine was around $77 or so. But yeah when Tobias came here posting his proof I did kinda just want to give him the benefit of doubt, as least concerning his evidence. For me back then it wasn't cool coming out with guns blazing flat out accusing someone of being a bootlegger. Accusing someone of illegal bootlegging back then would have carried a worse stigma then it does now in gaming forums. That and back then companies were more sue happy then they are now. Since some of the copies had popped up in Japanese game shops that gave him something to prop his story up on too.
I did my best to try to get Care4Data and Hudson to confirm if the disc were legit or fake. I just couldn't get any solid proof one way or the next. Neither wanted to confirm, or deny the such via email, and I'm the type that really does want the most solid proof possible, which for me would have been a confirmation from Hudson one way or the other. Until then, my stance was more neutral, with some devil's advocate tossed in for good measure, not accusing them of being 100 percent legit, or flat out fake. Personally, in my gut, I leaned on them being fake/repro, and when I got rid of mine I listed it as being such.
That whole Tobias ordeal though kind of busted my sense of trust when it came to sellers on here, and partly why I started jumping down sellers throats so much when shenanigans were being pulled by them. Sadly sometimes you just simply cant afford to give anyone the benefit of doubt. In the past when its been done it ended up with not just Tobias and his Sapphire boots, but also TZD not honoring orders before selling out to Red Frog, Dean not finishing mod work after a years worth of time has gone by, the Risingstuff cunts etc. The shit just seems to exacerbate when left to sort itself out on this forum because people are afraid to ruffle someone's feathers.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cjameslv on March 06, 2015, 05:44:05 AM
He is giving the games away for free and including free shipping, so everyone could just order that and he will make alot less off this run.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on March 06, 2015, 03:32:34 PM
Or everyone could snub his useless effort at "good will". I'm too cool to take Tobias's ratty boots, even for free.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on March 07, 2015, 03:22:48 PM
Or everyone could snub his useless effort at "good will". I'm too cool to take Tobias's ratty boots, even for free.
That's how I feel about it too. While he offering it for free, if it isn't something that Nightwolve was a part of, then it doesn't belong in the Xak collection (http://retro-type.com/skyewelse/xak-series-collection.jpg) because to me, that's a fake unauthorized bootleg, no matter how good the quality may actually seem on the surface. There is an actual Xak series bootleg that I would love to have in my collection, but the difference is, it was a big-boxed MSX style bootleg of Xak I sold at a few dutch MSX fairs by the actual romhackers and translators that worked on it to bring it to the fans. Now something like that... that is treasure worth having, not this stuff that Tobias is pushing.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on March 18, 2015, 05:02:32 PM
Yeah I saw those too. He had 3 auctions going. I imagine he is doing this via a friend/proxy seller. Thats what he used to do before with Sapphire and SFZ on jacked up ebay listings.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sarumaru on March 18, 2015, 07:41:42 PM
Yeah I saw those too. He had 3 auctions going. I imagine he is doing this via a friend/proxy seller. Thats what he used to do before with Sapphire and SFZ on jacked up ebay listings.
Not the only place they're showing up, too. And check out that price tag.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on March 19, 2015, 02:22:58 AM
Those auctions aren't necessarily by Tobias. There's plenty of opportunist d-bags that'll buy his shit for flipping - buy three and sell two to get their own for 'free'.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Lost Monkey on March 19, 2015, 02:31:50 AM
...and please don't just look at those auctions and whine about them... report them.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gentlegamer on March 19, 2015, 03:13:19 AM
Report all counterfeit items on ebay... but they rarely do anything about it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on March 19, 2015, 04:51:58 AM
Those auctions aren't necessarily by Tobias. There's plenty of opportunist d-bags that'll buy his shit for flipping - buy three and sell two to get their own for 'free'.
That was the first thing that came to mind when I saw them. Not saying that it couldn't be him selling his own stuff, but it makes a lot more sense that it's a flipper.
The only thing I could see him doing is putting those up on eBay to give people the impression that they are selling for above "retail" (lol) on the secondary market, thus driving more people to buy them from him thinking that they are an "investment". Like if people see that auction and then Google the product to see what it's all about, then go to his website and see how much cheaper they are there, they might be more inclined to jump on them, thinking that they are getting a great deal.
Or maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on March 19, 2015, 05:05:50 AM
The eBay seller with multiple copies of Tobias' newer products for sale is located in Germany. Just like the seller who had an endless supply of Sapphires several years ago.
BIN price on the box sets is $350.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Lost Monkey on March 19, 2015, 06:42:07 AM
Well 2 of the three current auctions have been removed... Didn't see the third earlier... just reported it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on March 24, 2015, 07:36:30 PM
Good work reporting his auctions. Yeah, I wondered who it was and saw that the seller is located in Germany, so it's either him, a proxy buddy, or one hell of a coincidence...
Anyhow, I have 2 updates:
1) I'm Facebook friends with Tru/John and I finally reported the incident to him the other night. Linked him this thread as well. He emailed Tobias to deal with it - I asked what he said, and his answer was pretty much what I said, only with not as much "f--ks" and in hopes of finding an agreement. ;) Up to him.
2) I did finally reply back to him myself right before telling Tru.
Quote
Quite honestly, I still haven't decided on how to resolve this with you, but while letting myself cool down and avoid the issue, there are points that need to made right now:
1) Wanna make sure you're made aware that I plan to eventually press Ys IV myself, and that you need to keep your hands off of it!!! I'm sure you've had your "eye on the prize" when it comes to Ys IV, no question about that... I've been made aware that you're pressing most of the NEC library and there was quite a bit of fear that you may have already snuck and done it, but yeah, keep your hands off of it!! I have invalidated the public patch with some enhancements and script edits, and I'll have to keep that private to prevent someone like you from accessing it - I guess I'll save the update until I can get needed votes/deals with everyone in the project to go forward.
2) Your $109 EUR price for the 3 pack is pretty ridiculous and that would need to be brought down to something sane with fair mark-up principles. Your shameless profiteering is something I don't wish to be associated with on any level, not to mention the big problem with you, your criminal baggage of the fraud you perpetrated against the public by forging a document purported to be by Hudson Soft to falsely convince the public you obtained the last real and new batch of Sapphire, CDs which you had in fact pressed yourself and thus were fakes all along... You caused a lot of financial damage to buyers and resellers alike who were tricked into believing that batch was real, you made out like a bandit and got away with it all... Hard to believe those Youtube channel personalities forgave you for all of that mess!
3) I notified Tru about SO II the other day, so that's out of the way. How he deals with you is entirely up to him. He said he already emailed you so you will have seen that by now.
That's all for now.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: tknjin on March 24, 2015, 10:44:52 PM
When you do ever get the time to press these CDs I will definitely be purchasing them through you man. I think it would be cool to see them done by the fansubbers who put the time and effort to let the masses enjoy.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: DarkKobold on March 25, 2015, 01:45:50 PM
1) Wanna make sure you're made aware that I plan to eventually press Ys IV myself, and that you need to keep your hands off of it!!! I'm sure you've had your "eye on the prize" when it comes to Ys IV, no question about that... I've been made aware that you're pressing most of the NEC library and there was quite a bit of fear that you may have already snuck and done it, but yeah, keep your hands off of it!! I have invalidated the public patch with some enhancements and script edits, and I'll have to keep that private to prevent someone like you from accessing it - I guess I'll save the update until I can get needed votes/deals with everyone in the project to go forward.
I hope, for your sake, you didn't actually send this to Tobias. He's clearly demonstrated, by trying to pass off a bootleg Sapphire as a legit game, that he has zero care for the community or ethical lines in reproductions. You can say hands off as much as you want, but I seriously doubt he'll listen. Given the past behavior, I'd say that it is pretty likely he'll ignore you. On top of that, you've told him you are planning on pressing Ys IV 'sometime in the future' and a better version. Which, I'm pretty sure, to some one like Tobias, means that he needs to press it sooner, rather than later, to maximize his profits, while you "take votes."
Even given the number of problems we've had, I'd rather support you than Tobias. (Not saying I'd actually buy Tobias's version, just that given the choice between two, I'd pick you.) That said, I think you just put a timer bomb over your head to getting this pressing done. I'm fairly certain you inspired Tobias to speed up his next pressing.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on March 25, 2015, 02:15:47 PM
I hope, for your sake, you didn't actually send this to Tobias. He's clearly demonstrated, by trying to pass off a bootleg Sapphire as a legit game, that he has zero care for the community or ethical lines in reproductions. You can say hands off as much as you want, but I seriously doubt he'll listen. Given the past behavior, I'd say that it is pretty likely he'll ignore you. On top of that, you've told him you are planning on pressing Ys IV 'sometime in the future' and a better version. Which, I'm pretty sure, to some one like Tobias, means that he needs to press it sooner, rather than later, to maximize his profits, while you "take votes."
Even given the number of problems we've had, I'd rather support you than Tobias. (Not saying I'd actually buy Tobias's version, just that given the choice between two, I'd pick you.) That said, I think you just put a timer bomb over your head to getting this pressing done. I'm fairly certain you inspired Tobias to speed up his next pressing.
Well, funny you should pop in here again for that... He already responded back to me, and well, no surprise, he already pressed Ys IV and given his batch orders, we're talking about 500 CDs or more, etc. It's too late, it's been revealed that the guy is gonna be doing a significant part of the NEC library, and yeah, Ys IV made his production list as many predicted. He probably already did Dracula X as well... He added that in light of the situation, he won't be selling them, they will be given out.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: DarkKobold on March 25, 2015, 02:26:20 PM
Well, funny you should pop in here again for that... He already responded back to me, and well, no surprise, he already pressed Ys IV and given his batch orders, we're talking about 500 CDs or more, etc. It's too late, it's been revealed that the guy is gonna be doing a significant part of the NEC library, and yeah, Ys IV made his production list as many predicted. He probably already did Dracula X as well... He added that in light of the situation, he won't be selling them, they will be given out.
Interesting. I don't believe him. He doesn't seem like the type to pass up on profits.
Actually, TBH, I don't believe he's already pressed Ys IV. Seems like another lie to try and delay your pressing. Why would he not be selling it, if it were already pressed? Something just "off" about that.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on March 25, 2015, 02:38:44 PM
I believe him. From what I've gathered, he did a bunch of batch orders of many games on his list, and that's the easy part, send CD label artwork and a CD-R off to the pressing plant that he uses. So he's pressed a whole bunch of games in the NEC library including fan-translated games, and those are sitting in his stock, and he does the slow part which is manuals and maybe box art as he goes along, etc. You will be seeing many releases come out this year.
I also know this to likely be true because of other developments, but I was asked not to disclose them at this time (not by him!)... But yeah, suffice to say, I won't be bothering with my desire to press it... If he didn't have criminal baggage and chose not to sneak around, the newer font and spelling fixes could've been on these, but he is who he is and he used the old public patches currently available, just like he did with Xak III, so...
Quote
You might be happy to hear (no sarcasm intended!) that the free discs of Xak and SOII are extremely popular. We shipped way over 600 pairs to users all over the world (with all costs on us).
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: geise on March 25, 2015, 02:59:15 PM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: DarkKobold on March 25, 2015, 03:11:05 PM
I... I don't get it. He did one of the most deplorable possible things you can do, as far as reproductions go, by trying to pass off a bootleg as the real deal. That, to me, means he had zero conscience from the get-go. He'll do whatever he wants, to maximize profit.
However, from the dealings with Nightwolve, he seems like a somewhat morally defunct, but trying to-do-right guy. I can't align the two in my head. They say a tiger can't change his stripes... but it sounds like Tobias has.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: spenoza on March 25, 2015, 03:28:45 PM
Well, if BurntLasagna wasn't already gun shy enough, a release of his Dracula X work will certainly be the end of any further involvement he'd be likely to have in the community.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on March 26, 2015, 09:57:41 AM
Well, if BurntLasagna wasn't already gun shy enough, a release of his Dracula X work will certainly be the end of any further involvement he'd be likely to have in the community.
Good riddance to him.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 26, 2015, 10:15:14 AM
Well, funny you should pop in here again for that... He already responded back to me, and well, no surprise, he already pressed Ys IV and given his batch orders, we're talking about 500 CDs or more, etc. It's too late, it's been revealed that the guy is gonna be doing a significant part of the NEC library, and yeah, Ys IV made his production list as many predicted. He probably already did Dracula X as well... He added that in light of the situation, he won't be selling them, they will be given out.
How significant? Did he actually elaborate? I mean there is hundreds of games available, and most normal games could be purchased legitimately for used prices that would probably beat his prices for new repros.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sarumaru on March 26, 2015, 11:31:02 AM
NightWolve, if Tobias wasn't going to press them and you had the opportunity to, would you really have pressed Ys4?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on March 26, 2015, 12:41:52 PM
However, from the dealings with Nightwolve, he seems like a somewhat morally defunct, but trying to-do-right guy. I can't align the two in my head. They say a tiger can't change his stripes... but it sounds like Tobias has.
Seriously? He's making a big mockery out of the Copyright laws by pressing other companies' work for profit in plain view, which is funny because he isn't in Vietnam or China but in a place that actually cares about intellectual property. Want to bet how much that if his work went "mainstream" with sites like Kotaku and others bringing his work to light in various articles, he would be screwed and jailed for at least a quarter of his life? He's making bootlegs at will, and I bet he has to at least claim ownership of IP so the factory can press these games. Not to mention translators getting f*cked in the ass XSEED style.
For me what he's doing now and what he has done with Sapphire has equal relevance.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on March 26, 2015, 12:49:39 PM
Honestly I wish that smaller, still existing companies from the PCE era would sell their older games by mail order to their niche audience. Maybe even now-big companies like KONAMI+Hudson, with a tiny two man staff to handle this kind of stuff which honestly can't cost much. It's basically pick up a retail copy of game X at archives/super overpriced potato, make 1:1 digital copy, send to replicator for 10 or more copies to be done, ship to mail order waiting line, collect cash, enforce IP rights automatically, receive the praise of press and hardcore fans. RIP 16 bit era disc bootleggers.
This was a double post. Thank you.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on March 26, 2015, 01:14:46 PM
1. So Tobias is planning to press Ys IV and has possibly already started? And he's going to give them away for free just like he said he would do with Xak III? I wish that were true and not being sold for profit, but I guess we'll just have to see if these popup for sale. There's also the risk that some people might jump at an opportunity to get the pressed discs for free and resell them anyway, which would be difficult to tell if it is truly Tobias / PCE Memories' operation.
2. I got pretty excited when you said that you planned to make your own pressing of Ys IV. If you ended up doing that, I'd definitely want to buy it from you directly.
3. I guess by from what I read by Bernie's post, Burnt Lasagna isn't liked by everyone here. He seemed like a pretty cool guy to me at least when I was working on the Ys IV Dub project with him.
-Thomas
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 26, 2015, 03:02:53 PM
1. So Tobias is planning to press Ys IV and has possibly already started? And he's going to give them away for free just like he said he would do with Xak III? I wish that were true and not being sold for profit, but I guess we'll just have to see if these popup for sale. There's also the risk that some people might jump at an opportunity to get the pressed discs for free and resell them anyway, which would be difficult to tell if it is truly Tobias / PCE Memories' operation.
2. I got pretty excited when you said that you planned to make your own pressing of Ys IV. If you ended up doing that, I'd definitely want to buy it from you directly.
3. I guess by from what I read by Bernie's post, Burnt Lasagna isn't liked by everyone here. He seemed like a pretty cool guy to me at least when I was working on the Ys IV Dub project with him.
-Thomas
Tobias is a douchebag profiteer. Don't support him. He is not a friend of this community
BurntLasagna is someone who didn't want folks to make a profit by selling reproductions (in other words, Tobias). He said: PCE fans, make your own personal copies, enjoy the English-language dub!
I support BurntLasagna's wishes.
I will always support the folks who hack/modify/translate/dub/create games. These folks, and the fruits of their labor, are far more important than some collectard fetish for a f*cking mass-produced reproduction.
LightScribe your own disc and print your own manual/insert. It really isn't that difficult.
1. So Tobias is planning to press Ys IV and has possibly already started? And he's going to give them away for free just like he said he would do with Xak III? I wish that were true and not being sold for profit, but I guess we'll just have to see if these popup for sale. There's also the risk that some people might jump at an opportunity to get the pressed discs for free and resell them anyway, which would be difficult to tell if it is truly Tobias / PCE Memories' operation. -Thomas
Tobias is a douchebag profiteer. Don't support him. He is not a friend of this community
BurntLasagna is someone who didn't want folks to make a profit by selling reproductions (in other words, Tobias). He said: PCE fans, make your own personal copies, enjoy the English-language dub!
I support BurntLasagna's wishes.
I will always support the folks who hack/modify/translate/dub/create games. These folks, and the fruits of their labor, are far more important than some collectard fetish for a f*cking mass-produced reproduction.
LightScribe your own disc and print your own manual/insert. It really isn't that difficult.
Oh I definitely want to make it clear that I do not personally want Tobia's pressed discs. I wasn't suggesting that. I have just about every Xak series release out there (http://retro-type.com/skyewelse/xak-series-collection.jpg), but I don't want what Tobias is pushing. It has no value from a collector's standpoint, only a functional one of being a pressed disc. I was simply stating that I hope that Tobias keeps his word about not selling these. But I have my doubts, just as I have my doubts that some other person who gets one of these discs for free would be decent enough to not turn around and try to make a profit on it. It's just a bad situation no matter how you view it, with the only positive being that if Tobias did keep his word, at least he discs he's pressing for these would end after all the free copies are distributed.
I've made a lightscribe disc before for personal use for Ys IV shortly after the English Dub project was completed. But having learned that playing cd-rs on the actual system can damage the laser much quicker and that a laser for a Turbo Duo RX machine may be rare/expensive to replace, I've been reluctant to play too many cd-rs lately until I can figure out a plan B of how to replace that laser.
So if NightWolve were to make a pressed disc, I'd be all over that, for one because it would be a pressed disc, and second because it would be something of value to me from a collector's standpoint because in my eyes, it came from an original source that made the translation possible and a friend. Kind of hard to put a price on that.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on March 27, 2015, 08:07:03 AM
Good work reporting his auctions. Yeah, I wondered who it was and saw that the seller is located in Germany, so it's either him, a proxy buddy, or one hell of a coincidence...
It should be noted that the ip address linked to emails from Tobias that I have been able to obtain, along with the one linked to his "SCANLINES DEMYSTIFIED" website come out of Germany, so odds are good that the ebay account is his or a close friend of his.
Also worth noting, Nick, you could probably sign up with Wordpress and file a copyright compliant in regards to the translation being used to sell the Xak software. As long as the translation is not exactly literal you could probably claim copyright on it, or call a bluff on it as far as WordPress goes to get Tobias blog/sales page kicked from their servers.
https://wordpress.com/abuse/
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 27, 2015, 09:54:29 AM
1. So Tobias is planning to press Ys IV and has possibly already started? And he's going to give them away for free just like he said he would do with Xak III? I wish that were true and not being sold for profit, but I guess we'll just have to see if these popup for sale. There's also the risk that some people might jump at an opportunity to get the pressed discs for free and resell them anyway, which would be difficult to tell if it is truly Tobias / PCE Memories' operation. -Thomas
Tobias is a douchebag profiteer. Don't support him. He is not a friend of this community
BurntLasagna is someone who didn't want folks to make a profit by selling reproductions (in other words, Tobias). He said: PCE fans, make your own personal copies, enjoy the English-language dub!
I support BurntLasagna's wishes.
I will always support the folks who hack/modify/translate/dub/create games. These folks, and the fruits of their labor, are far more important than some collectard fetish for a f*cking mass-produced reproduction.
LightScribe your own disc and print your own manual/insert. It really isn't that difficult.
Oh I definitely want to make it clear that I do not personally want Tobia's pressed discs. I wasn't suggesting that. I have just about every Xak series release out there (http://retro-type.com/skyewelse/xak-series-collection.jpg), but I don't want what Tobias is pushing. It has no value from a collector's standpoint, only a functional one of being a pressed disc. I was simply stating that I hope that Tobias keeps his word about not selling these. But I have my doubts, just as I have my doubts that some other person who gets one of these discs for free would be decent enough to not turn around and try to make a profit on it. It's just a bad situation no matter how you view it, with the only positive being that if Tobias did keep his word, at least he discs he's pressing for these would end after all the free copies are distributed.
I've made a lightscribe disc before for personal use for Ys IV shortly after the English Dub project was completed. But having learned that playing cd-rs on the actual system can damage the laser much quicker and that a laser for a Turbo Duo RX machine may be rare/expensive to replace, I've been reluctant to play too many cd-rs lately until I can figure out a plan B of how to replace that laser.
So if NightWolve were to make a pressed disc, I'd be all over that, for one because it would be a pressed disc, and second because it would be something of value to me from a collector's standpoint because in my eyes, it came from an original source that made the translation possible and a friend. Kind of hard to put a price on that.
-Thomas
Comrade, I'm sorry. When I re-read my post, it sounded pretty abrasive. Sorry. I was really just venting, I did not mean to direct it at you (100%). Maybe 30% was intended for you, ha!!!
:(
Anyway, hugs and kisses :)
As for the CDR and track sled issue....I can never remember if we came to a consensus on that one...if there is anyone I would trust, it would be thesteve. I don't know if it causes damage or is simply a nuisance.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on March 27, 2015, 04:28:29 PM
Comrade, I'm sorry. When I re-read my post, it sounded pretty abrasive. Sorry. I was really just venting, I did not mean to direct it at you (100%). Maybe 30% was intended for you, ha!!!
Hey no issues here, I didn't take offense or anything like that, I just wanted to make sure I was clear about what I said since it looked like I might have thrown some people off. I just wanted to explain that I'm a pretty serious Xak fan and collector, and I do not see value in what Tobias has because it's fake. For something like a pressing of Xak III to have real value to me as a hardcore collector, it needs to be from a project that has the original team's blessing...
Hmm, that could make a funny "Obey"picture actually. A Pope or Archbishop giving a pressed PC-Engine disk a sign of benediction / blessing it...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on March 28, 2015, 02:06:31 AM
ASIDE: ^ you have to add that image to this thread started years ago...you might jumpstart the creative energy and get more folks contributing to it.
Back on topic: Whatever...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gredler on May 09, 2015, 10:10:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYUV1rIkL3I
Great sales pitch
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 09, 2015, 10:22:49 AM
It is impressive his PR marketing effort to push his wares beyond that website of his... Wonder how he did it besides hitting them up and shipping them a bunch of free copies. May have actually hired a professional PR rep or something.
EDIT: Oh, interesting, he actually addressed this forum, my response to Tobias, etc. albeit briefly. Surprised... Of course, looks like he cares far more about the packaging not living up to previous standards set by Tobias in the past. ;) Heh.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gredler on May 09, 2015, 10:32:02 AM
It is impressive his PR marketing effort to push his wares beyond that website of his... Wonder how he did it besides hitting them up and shipping them a bunch of free copies. May have actually hired a professional PR rep or something.
EDIT: Oh, interesting, he actually addressed this forum, my response to Tobias, etc. albeit briefly. Surprised... Of course, looks like he cares far more about the packaging not living up to previous standards set by Tobias in the past. ;) Heh.
Thanks for touching on it, I was curious as to your opinion as he mentions it as being amicable and in the process of being resolved.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 09, 2015, 10:41:37 AM
Well, for Tru, I guess it got resolved somewhat to his satisfaction, Tobias sent him a copy of all multi pack releases (all the memories packs, etc.) and a phony promise down the road that "when there's net profit, he'll see a cut..." I stopped at his last email and didn't act on anything further given his revelation that he already pressed Ys IV - that really threw me off... I'm just not thinking about it anymore. And man, getting an idea of his numbers and with past work/releases, this mofo can actually live off his bootleg business... You'd be surprised the money that he's managed to pull in.
Anyhow, it wasn't resolved with me cause I didn't reply back to his last email which offered the same as Tru, copies of all his wares and a possible idea on what to do with the Ys IV CDs he already pressed (we've already seen his $1/pop cut BS). I'm just pretty pissed and already had XSEED issues on my mind, so I sort of postponed any attention to him/it... :/
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: HailingTheThings on May 09, 2015, 11:50:13 AM
if you can't beat em, join em! Lets translate the entire library, repro it, and get rich! :D I've always wanted toalready snort(ed) cocain(e) off a hooker's ass, this might be the only way I'll ever realize this dream.Now I want to snort cocaine off two hookers' asses! At the same time!!!
seriously.
let's start with lady phantom and move on to the dragon knight games after that.
$$$$$$$!
Fixed.
I love you.
Hold me.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: sirhcman on May 09, 2015, 12:47:10 PM
if you can't beat em, join em! Lets translate the entire library, repro it, and get rich! :D I've always wanted toalready snort(ed) cocain(e) off a hooker's ass, this might be the only way I'll ever realize this dream.Now I want to snort cocaine off two hookers' asses! At the same time!!!
seriously.
let's start with lady phantom and move on to the dragon knight games after that.
$$$$$$$!
Fixed.
I love you.
Hold me.
You two, get a room.. oh here ya GO (http://www.doxphile/chat)!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: HailingTheThings on May 09, 2015, 03:47:50 PM
True! The good lord gave us two nostrils for a reason, no? :lol:
and fuxk off with the spelling. You try typing on a phone woth massive sausage fingers and a liter of rum kamikazeing your liver. (You complete me.)
Fuxking off is my middle midriff name. While I have tried typing on a phone "woth" massive sausage fingers*, never have I done so whilst allowing rum to kamikaze my liver. (You complicate me.)
DISCLAIMER: I don't have energy to hate on Tobias right now. If anyone reading this is unaware, suffice it to say that Tobias = a selfish parasite (a louse, in every sense of the term).
"On Carlson's Video"
(1) I agree with Gredler, this video will help Tobias sell more units than he would have, otherwise. It's the best sort of promotion.
(2) OCD is NOT the basis for a valid CRITIQUE: I watched the whole video. I can't believe Carlson's major criticism of the cardboard packaging was that it didn't match the size of a jewel case, thus ruining his row of PCE games from being perfectly uniform.
If there is one thing you can say about Tobias, he has a skilled designer working for him...the aesthetic details of the disc/packaging are always excellent.
LITTLE DETAILS: I couldn't help but smile at the "PROMO" stickers on the items in the video...that sticker is such a nice little detail, even the text/layout of the damn sticker was well done. Tobias has OCD. I can't fault him for that.
Back to important things: at least Carlson briefly discussed the actual games. My opinion of the video changed significantly when I realized it wasn't going to be 10+ minutes analyzing the packaging alone.
I don't have the energy to hate on the reviewer. Overall, it was a nicely-produced video. I would never expect this goofball Carslon to openly attack profiteering, so the fact he addressed the "controversy" at all was refreshing (Carlson narrowly framed the debate as "asking permission of translators", but I understand why he framed it this way...Carlson himself probably has no problem with profiteering/Tobias's history....nor does he care).
BOTTM LINE: I gotta give Carlson credit for making a solid video (I don't have to agree with his editorial to acknowledge production values and informative content).
QUESTION: Is Carlson the goofball who was banning people from his Facebook PCE group? Not that it matters. Just curious.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Otaking on May 10, 2015, 03:23:25 AM
A saw a video the other day that reviewed this set. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxOGaIpsRlA
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 10, 2015, 03:44:04 AM
Hah, that's funny, he highlighted my old RIGG forum plug and political joke...
It's funny, there's really maybe only one donation I can associate with the Xak III project. Most of them are due to Felghana for obvious reasons. Then Tobias comes along showing all you had to do was make a pretty piece of plastic and those wallets would open right up... Granted, I didn't have a Paypal Donate icon when I started Xak III, I didn't care or ever consider some kind of monetization those early years when I started the fan translation gig, let alone unlicensed bootlegs, but yeah, it does grind you that a f*cker who had nothing to do with the projects just snuck around the way that he did and made out like a bandit so many years later, especially when I felt mostly nobody gave a shit about something like Xak III... Ys IV, sure... :/
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on May 10, 2015, 03:58:45 AM
A saw a video the other day that reviewed this set. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxOGaIpsRlA
Wow, the guy didn't even own a PC Engine and he went asking for "review copies".
It's sad that these voluntarily ignorant generic youtube stars inform more people than those who have any idea of the background of these bootlegs and now have several times as many people cheering on the heroic "group of fans" that formed PCE Works, than there are people who have any idea of the scams that Tobias has pulled, or even anything about the PCE published homebrew scene.
I saw another video suggested by youtube of yet another sell-out reviewer that I don't want to link to. It's amazing how these professional youtubers literally do zero research on the games or publisher of bootlegs before gushing over their latest freebees... and then have the balls to ask for cash donations or sell lame merchandise.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 10, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
I did a little informing for him. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxOGaIpsRlA
A saw a video the other day that reviewed this set. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxOGaIpsRlA
Wow, the guy didn't even own a PC Engine and he went asking for "review copies".
It's sad that these voluntarily ignorant generic youtube stars inform more people than those who have any idea of the background of these bootlegs and now have several times as many people cheering on the heroic "group of fans" that formed PCE Works, than there are people who have any idea of the scams that Tobias has pulled, or even anything about the PCE published homebrew scene.
I saw another video suggested by youtube of yet another sell-out reviewer that I don't want to link to. It's amazing how these professional youtubers literally do zero research on the games or publisher of bootlegs before gushing over their latest freebees... and then have the balls to ask for cash donations or sell lame merchandise.
Agreed 1000%.
The uninformed are educating the clueless.
As you said, ALL IT TOOK WAS A PROMO...and did you notice? To satisfy the collectard lust/ego of the reviewer, a PERSONALIZED + numbered PROMO STICKER for the "review copies!
Tobias, truly, is a brilliant motherf@cker.
What better way to win over YouTube sluts than providing them with a collectard's wet dream of an exclusive numbered edition!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 10, 2015, 05:21:01 AM
As you said, ALL IT TOOK WAS A PROMO...and did you notice? To satisfy the collectard lust/ego of the reviewer, a PERSONALIZED + numbered PROMO STICKER for the "review copies!
Tobias, truly, is a brilliant motherf@cker.
Yeah, I noticed that tailored-made sticker too... He sure is something, gotta give 'im that...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Raizen1984 on May 10, 2015, 06:34:08 AM
Game Sack and Happy Console Gamer released videos today advertising these bootlegs as well. HCG didn't even acknowledge the controversy. Very disappointing.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MrBroadway on May 10, 2015, 06:46:28 AM
Game Sack and Happy Console Gamer released videos today advertising these bootlegs as well. HCG didn't even acknowledge the controversy. Very disappointing.
I wish Joe and Dave were a little more against it, but at least they did acknowledge this thread, so that's a plus.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on May 10, 2015, 06:55:27 AM
A saw a video the other day that reviewed this set. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxOGaIpsRlA
Wow, the guy didn't even own a PC Engine and he went asking for "review copies".
It's sad that these voluntarily ignorant generic youtube stars inform more people than those who have any idea of the background of these bootlegs and now have several times as many people cheering on the heroic "group of fans" that formed PCE Works, than there are people who have any idea of the scams that Tobias has pulled, or even anything about the PCE published homebrew scene.
I saw another video suggested by youtube of yet another sell-out reviewer that I don't want to link to. It's amazing how these professional youtubers literally do zero research on the games or publisher of bootlegs before gushing over their latest freebees... and then have the balls to ask for cash donations or sell lame merchandise.
Agreed 1000%.
The uninformed are educating the clueless.
As you said, ALL IT TOOK WAS A PROMO...and did you notice? To satisfy the collectard lust/ego of the reviewer, a PERSONALIZED + numbered PROMO STICKER for the "review copies!
Tobias, truly, is a brilliant motherf@cker.
What better way to win over YouTube sluts than providing them with a collectard's wet dream of an exclusive numbered edition!
His story to NightWolve, about how he is just doing it at a loss for the fans and if he is lucky enough to makes a few dollars, then he might toss a few his way... is further discredited by his aggressive marketing which includes giving away complete sets to anyone with a youtube channel. If he was barely making any profit, then those "promo" copies would put him in the red by thousands of dollars. But common sense shows that all of the promo copies and marketing really means that he is continuing not only to make a large profit off of each copy, but that the "limited edition" runs are also b.s.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2015, 07:28:17 AM
Nightwolve gets screwed (again) out of his translation rights and the only thing he gets is a brief mention in an episode that is 50% of the time a showcase for Tobias' repros about what happened. "But whatever because the original developers don't get any money from it and every other repro maker does the same thing am I right?"
Come on Joe, regardless of your opinion on the matter is sending the disks back to Tobias and not "reviewing" anything so hard? That video must have been like a punch in the gut for Nightwolve...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: VenomMacbeth on May 10, 2015, 07:58:58 AM
I think the views expressed in that episode I think echo the views of an average
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on May 10, 2015, 08:33:53 AM
Punch, it wasn't like a punch in the gut to Nightwolve and he was made very aware that we were making the video and what we were saying about it well before it was released. Please don't jump to conclusions.
Also Johnny (Happy Console Gamer) was informed about all of this several weeks ago by me and he was upset. He had already made his video and he said he was going to "cut that part out". I'm not sure what part he was referring to exactly.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 10, 2015, 08:43:15 AM
Come on Joe, regardless of your opinion on the matter is sending the disks back to Tobias and not "reviewing" anything so hard? That video must have been like a punch in the gut for Nightwolve...
Nah, it's cool Punch, Joe's awesome for one reason, and one reason alone:
(Timed to jump right to the relevant point) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrt27X2frjI&t=25m54s (https://s5.postimg.cc/khnqvx753/Game_Sack_XSEEDDeuce_Bag.png)
The zooming in screenshots he took captured "DeuceBag" and XSEED in a sentence, "First the DeuceBag shit with XSEED and now this!!!!!" :) (Thanks for that BTW, xelementx!) THAT really made my day and on a 20,000 hit video so far!!!!! Like I say, Joe is the coolest dude that I know, GameSack4ever!!
But on a serious note, Joe PM'ed me 2 weeks ago to give me a chance to provide my input on XakIII/Tobias, but my mind was just too focused on other things. I wanted to rewrite or summarize my key thoughts about it, see if I could contribute something useful to him, but I just procrastinated and I wouldn't have expected him to keep on waiting for me. The last PM he sent me provided a summary that sounded OK to me, so it's all good! Regardless, all is forgiven for getting that DeuceBag/XSEED comment shown in his video!! Heh-heh.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on May 10, 2015, 08:44:27 AM
Punch, it wasn't like a punch in the gut to Nightwolve and he was made very aware that we were making the video and what we were saying about it well before it was released. Please don't jump to conclusions.
Also Johnny (Happy Console Gamer) was informed about all of this several weeks ago by me and he was upset. He had already made his video and he said he was going to "cut that part out". I'm not sure what part he was referring to exactly.
I believe that he was one of the people who really drove home the point that these bootlegs were made by reputable fans who would never try to pass off bootlegs as the real deal. I think he actually said some like "people who try to sell bootlegs online as authentic copies are scum... which is why I love PCE Works because they would never do that and you can trust them".
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on May 10, 2015, 03:28:52 PM
Joe addressed the issue in a solid fashion, so I can't fault him for that. I like how he stated the flaws of the packaging/presentation too for Xak and SO II also in the video.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on May 11, 2015, 06:21:08 AM
(2) OCD is NOT the basis for a valid CRITIQUE: I watched the whole video. I can't believe Carlson's major criticism of the cardboard packaging was that it didn't match the size of a jewel case, thus ruining his row of PCE games from being perfectly uniform.
I like how he prefers the 'traditional packaging' of Cychorider, showing his complete ignorance of the game and how it was originally distributed in a book!. Stupid youtubers. :lol:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on May 11, 2015, 10:34:55 AM
f*ck yeah the packaging of Cycho Rider was cool. Screw that weird ass Xak 3 and Startling Odyssey shit. I wish that Cycho Rider's instructions weren't just in Japanese though... not like it needs English instructions or anything. Anyway I gave SO2 and Xak 3 to Dave. He says he'll probably never play them.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 11, 2015, 10:41:29 AM
Hard to believe he went for SO II with that unhacked, native 16x16 System Card 3 font, and given that it was technically a Babelfish translation that Tru hacked around into something meaningful... Xak III is rough/dry/boring/literal, but I got human translators involved at least and minor post-editing on my part that I could tolerate to do... Doesn't matter much though, you make some pretty plastic and packaging, throw freebies around, the wallets still open up all the same, etc.
Like how you got all the gruesome stuff showcased/highlighted in the video. ;) That was one of the things that really struck me about the game as well, I never encountered one with beheadings and other slicing'n'dicing on full display and very early on to boot! Heh.
(2) OCD is NOT the basis for a valid CRITIQUE: I watched the whole video. I can't believe Carlson's major criticism of the cardboard packaging was that it didn't match the size of a jewel case, thus ruining his row of PCE games from being perfectly uniform.
I like how he prefers the 'traditional packaging' of Cychorider, showing his complete ignorance of the game and how it was originally distributed in a book!. Stupid youtubers. :lol:
Although that guy seems fairly clueless about PCE, it is fair to take it that he just meant the usual CD game packaging. Joe was actually the one who said that Cychorider was included on one of the versions of Anearth Fantasy Stories. If that video increased sales of repros of the commonly known Sweet Home, it will likely be harder finding a copy of AFS for a while as collectards enjoy the thrill of hunting down the correct 'revision' of the game.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: tknjin on May 12, 2015, 11:14:19 AM
I thought Cycho Rider was only available for the Anearth Fantasy Stories Demo, unless I am mistaken because I know it isn't on the real retail ver. of it. Unless I am mistaken again XD
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Otaking on May 12, 2015, 11:32:13 AM
I thought Cycho Rider was only available for the Anearth Fantasy Stories Demo, unless I am mistaken because I know it isn't on the real retail ver. of it. Unless I am mistaken again XD
It's included on the CD with this Seiya Monogatari / Anearth Fantasy Stories Taikenban book. http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/28/628/1/Seiya-Monogatari-CD-Guidebook-jp.htm
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jimmy Hapa on May 14, 2015, 01:08:02 AM
Just wanted to chime in since I was mentioned here and put out a video about the PCE Works XSC set. Now that I am more aware/informed of the situation thanks to NightWolve and several viewers regarding use of the Xak III/SOII English fan translation patches, I would have approached the video I made much differently and would have made talk about the controversy behind the set and PCE Works a priority of the video. That, or I would have just passed on making it completely.
I'm not a professional YouTuber by any means, and I've not received a single dime (or less) from doing what I do. I put a lot of effort into my content so I can share my love of this thing we all have in common called gaming, and in my case, I like to let people know about great games (IMO) that remained Japan-only. So when I am regarded as someone "uninformed educating the clueless," I don't take it lightly.
Two months ago when I began working on the video, I tried to do some research into PCE Works, but all I really had were other YouTube videos to go by and very little in the way of text or webpages mentioning them. I wasn't a member of this forum until today, and as it's not a public one, I had no idea about just how deep "the rabbithole" went, you might say. I'm not trying to blame him at all for my misunderstanding of repros/PCE Works, but I really respect Johnny Millennium/Happy Console Gamer, and when I first saw him talk about the Best of Japan set and how "great" the folks were behind them, I took that to heart and that's really what formed my initial impression of them.
Since I knew I was getting a PC Engine, something I've wanted for over two decades, I was excited to play all the great games I missed out on over the years, and thought it was worth a shot reaching out to a company that I thought was really a positive force in the PC Engine gaming scene. But reading this thread and receiving feedback from others through comments, I understand that's not the case. So yes, I was ignorant, but I feel my intentions were good, misguided as they may have been. And my god, I had no idea about Xseed!
Anyway, my apologies for the long post, I just wanted to address this issue here where it felt most appropriate. For what it's worth, I updated my video description a couple of days ago to address the situation of the English patches (I may update it again to make it more detailed), added an annotation, and have provided links to places where they can be downloaded without monetary commitment. And my apologies if it seemed I was purposely misleading anyone with my video. That being said, I don't think I will or really can receive/cover another set from PCE Works in the future. I'll stick to what I know best, legit, Japan-only releases. I've gone on long enough, so to end this post, I want to say thanks to NightWolve for his excellent work translating an excellent game, and I look forward to becoming more engaged in the world of PC Engine gaming. Take care.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Otaking on May 14, 2015, 02:24:44 AM
For what it's worth I've watched a couple of your videos and I enjoyed them. At some point I'll go through your back catalogue of videos and watch more. Anything good that's related to Japanese import gaming gets a thumbs up from me. 8)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: HailingTheThings on May 14, 2015, 06:56:12 PM
For what it's worth I've watched a couple of your videos and I enjoyed them. At some point I'll go through your back catalogue of videos and watch more. Anything good that's related to Japanese import gaming gets a thumbs up from me. 8)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on May 19, 2015, 10:50:10 AM
Hey Jimmy, thanks for stopping by and for the updates to your video! I linked Jimmy to that Tobias/Sapphire thread a week ago or so and told him he'd have to register as he wanted to see where Tobias was using that fake/forged Hudson document to fool people into believing his Sapphire bootlegs were legit. That thread's kinda long, dunno if it helped beyond reasonable doubt, but yeah.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gredler on June 01, 2015, 09:25:27 AM
Another review of the PC-E Memories Turbo Duo Edition has been posted and popped up in my feed. I watched most of it, but it's more of the same.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on June 01, 2015, 12:48:29 PM
What a freaking goober. He has over 3k subs? What the f*ck?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on June 01, 2015, 01:03:29 PM
What a freaking goober. He has over 3k subs? What the f*ck?
There has never been any rhyme or reason in the universe.
:)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: tknjin on June 01, 2015, 08:59:02 PM
oh jeezus this video lol. You can clearly see he is not really all that much of PCE/TG16 guy. He just picked one of these up, and just was like "oooh look at me...wheeeeeeeeeeeee"
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on June 02, 2015, 04:27:42 AM
I couldn't watch it all and abandoned ship when he got to the "proof of purchase" coin.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on June 02, 2015, 05:55:00 AM
I couldn't watch it all and abandoned ship when he got to the "proof of purchase" coin.
You must have made it a lot farther than I did.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on June 03, 2015, 04:55:30 AM
He wasn't shiny and chrome. The video was rather mediocre.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MotherGunner on June 03, 2015, 04:59:37 AM
He acknowledges the controversy very briefly in comments but then does nothing else. Maybe someone should point him to this page.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cjameslv on June 03, 2015, 05:19:30 AM
He doesn't know shit about pc engine. I love how he doesn't know what spine cards are and calls them "..ooby strip type things.." at 3:36 sigh i stopped watching there.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on June 03, 2015, 06:36:48 AM
He doesn't know shit about pc engine. I love how he doesn't know what spine cards are and calls them "..ooby strip type things.." at 3:36 sigh i stopped watching there.
Ha! Now I'm going to watch the whole damn video. I had to stop it after 30 seconds last time.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on June 18, 2015, 06:40:31 AM
Looks like bootlegging PCE games is now his full time job. Next set includes Beyond Shadowgate, M&MIII and "Twinbee Returns". I guess his hacker is going to be carving out every mini-game they can to sell as stand-alone games. I'm guessing that the only reason they didn't go with Force Gear is that the hacker hasn't been able to isolate it yet. Either that or the next release has a couple less desirable full games that Tobias wants to balance out with a game that shump fans who shun the PCE will clamor to buy.
Another review of the PC-E Memories Turbo Duo Edition has been posted and popped up in my feed. I watched most of it, but it's more of the same.
http://youtu.be/eKq8E3qfi4Q
BTW - this guy's on the PCFX forum. his handle is Elder. he's been on the forum since Oct 2013 so he's mos def been around long enough to know about the controversy around PCE Memories.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on June 18, 2015, 07:27:15 AM
Another review of the PC-E Memories Turbo Duo Edition has been posted and popped up in my feed. I watched most of it, but it's more of the same.
http://youtu.be/eKq8E3qfi4Q
BTW - this guy's on the PCFX forum. his handle is Elder. he's been on the forum since Oct 2013 so he's mos def been around long enough to know about the controversy around PCE Memories.
I just sampled a few sections of the video. I liked the art strip reveal.
"There's Godzilla, there's Wonderboy or The Dynastic Hero as it's known, there's Bonk and there's...... -Dungeon Explorer II". :P
It reminded me of the Dracula parody episode of the Simpsons when vampire Mr Burns confronts Bart and says "Well, if it isn't little, uh...... boy!"
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on June 18, 2015, 07:29:12 AM
Looks like bootlegging PCE games is now his full time job. Next set includes Beyond Shadowgate, M&MIII and "Twinbee Returns". I guess his hacker is going to be carving out every mini-game they can to sell as stand-alone games. I'm guessing that the only reason they didn't go with Force Gear is that the hacker hasn't been able to isolate it yet. Either that or the next release has a couple less desirable full games that Tobias wants to balance out with a game that shump fans who shun the PCE will clamor to buy.
Yeah I saw that e-mail this morning. Those Beyond Shadowgate and M&MIII packages look really cool, but of course he has to balance it out with something shitty. Can't release too many AAA titles at once, or you'll run out of bundles too quickly, I guess. I'd pay $50 each for the two good games, but I have no interest in that Twinbee deal, and he's charging about $150 for the set of 3.
I wonder how his sales are doing. I can't be the only one who has cooled off on the guy.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on June 18, 2015, 08:29:53 AM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on June 18, 2015, 05:10:25 PM
In spite of who they are coming from, again, looks like more quality work. Too bad no one else is trying to do the same. Price kinda sucks though, but given what you get versus what you'd pay for real copies of these games, I am not sure how I feel about it. At least these actually are pretty good games, unlike something like Kaza Kiri or Renny Blaster which are C+ titles at best.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Mathius on June 19, 2015, 04:03:10 PM
I think I'm done with Tobias. To be honest the dude gave me a way to play Dynastic Hero on real hardware and that's awesome. But if I want to be true to myself I need to restrain my inner gamer and start rooting for the fine fellows trying to right the wrongs that Tobias has made against some dear friends here on PCFX.
I'll be very interested to see what we as a community can do as far as making a cheap alternative to Tobias' product. I gotta admit the M&MIII is hugely tempting but I am gonna wait for PCFX to crap out something better. And more ethical.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Mathius on June 19, 2015, 04:33:13 PM
PS- I'm a big enough man to admit my failings. I'm only human. Those shiny packages willed me to do something that, in the end, hurt some of my friends and possibly changed the future landscape of possible releases by those that put their souls into their work.
Nightwolve and co.....I'm sorry. Mathius loves ya.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on June 19, 2015, 05:36:37 PM
PS- I'm a big enough man to admit my failings. I'm only human. Those shiny packages willed me to do something that, in the end, hurt some of my friends and possibly changed the future landscape of possible releases by those that put their souls into their work.
Nightwolve and co.....I'm sorry. Mathius loves ya.
I was seriously tempted to get one of those boxsets until I heard Nightwolve's story. It would be great if someone else was more realistic and started doing booties of these "rare" and expensive games. Whether that be the folks on these forums or some outside force anything is better than Tobias's Bloated BS.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on June 19, 2015, 09:18:43 PM
Yeah, if only someone would make cheap booties to put these expensive ones to shame for their price gouging. You would think someone would do it eventually.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on June 20, 2015, 10:48:44 AM
It's alright Matt, he started his offenses with Bonknuts anyway, or if you wanna go further back than that, with all of you that were suckered into buying his Sapphire bootlegs under the false pretense that they were authentic, some last batch from Hudson, etc. I was just telling Joe that was the one forgotten thing that would've been good to mention in his Xak III bootleg GameSack episode, to have informed the public how Tobias started off as a lying fraudster. Episode was still good and I cared far more about seeing that XSEED comment (heh-heh), but yeah, that would've been something I would've added.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: True Puffer on July 23, 2015, 04:43:10 PM
I was seriously tempted to get one of those boxsets until I heard Nightwolve's story. It would be great if someone else was more realistic and started doing booties of these "rare" and expensive games. Whether that be the folks on these forums or some outside force anything is better than Tobias's Bloated BS.
I agree. Someone has to do it!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 24, 2015, 01:00:42 AM
I was seriously tempted to get one of those boxsets until I heard Nightwolve's story. It would be great if someone else was more realistic and started doing booties of these "rare" and expensive games. Whether that be the folks on these forums or some outside force anything is better than Tobias's Bloated BS.
I agree. Someone has to do it!
TruePuffer....please support the homebrew TG-16 releases.
If you want to spend your money, support folks who create new stuff, not bootleggers.
http://www.tg-16.com (http://www.tg-16.com/) (there is even a fanzine you can read...and if you like it enough, Paul might still have a printed edition available).
THESE ARE THE "TRUE COLLECTOR'S ITEMS" anyway (see, I resorted to that tactic, knowing that the collectard force is strong in you).
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on July 24, 2015, 02:22:55 AM
Why is it always someone else that needs to do something? Pull on your big girl panties and do it your damn self.
I wouldn't mind one of you guys doing that for me.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 07:22:51 AM
Ive been meaning to post an update to this thread for a long time now, but basically as it were I had to remain quiet concerning what was going on because I wanted to see how much of a embarrassing blow could be dealt to Tobias. Because Tobias, I hold a grudge, and I will get pay back if I can, even if it takes years. You owed me, my friend Eric, the entire PCE community.
You owe big, and it is time to pay up. You didn't want to apologize about the Sapphire mess and own up to it, and you pulled this shit on Nightwolve, and you still insist on overpriced repro copies, so this is how you pay up instead.
After coming across the Tobias PCE memories in a local trade prior and getting his address and email info, I concocted a plan to see if Tobias could be tricked into sending me a package to promo, so I could double check the shipper address and actually get registered tracking so I would have legit proof of where his stuff was coming from when I handed the info over to Konami in Europe, because honestly I knew where Tobias was going with all of this, and if you are not smart enough to figure it out, I will lay it out for you, high priced Dracula X bootlegs.
I know Tobias has a snitch here, I aint gonna say names, but I can tell you I suspect its a German member who has offered Tobias stuff here prior. Due to that there was concern if I just contacted Tobias using my IRL name "Mike" that he would know or suspect who I am and the ruse would probably be up. I set up a alias email under the name of Mark Castor, contacted him concerning an imaginary fake PCE/TG booth at a current Classic Game Fest convention that was to happen this month in Texas, and he could send a couple of things for promo if he liked.
I said we would be showing a beta copy of Pit-Fighter for TG-CD of all things at this show, given to us by a prior unnamed Tengen employee, just to see if maybe he would bite, and if nothing else maybe ask me for a copy of it and give me a mailing address I could compare to the one I got from the prior trade if he didn't want to mail anything. I even created some fake Pit-Fighter footage made to look the game was playing off a cd-r on my Duo in case he asked for proof.
Amazingly I guess Germans think Pit-Fighter is so bad that he did not ask or even inquire about it AT ALL lol. But he did take the bait at a chance to show off his wares. And when I say he took the bait, I mean he really took the bait. He sent multiple copies of both the PCE and Turbo Duo Memory box sets and the RPG titles, Xak and the other one. Also copies of a caravan shooter called Force Gear and Cycho Rider. Doubles of these were given out to my friends Eric and also Herc here.
I kept in touch with him under the Mark alias and kept in friendly contact, stoked his ego on his encoder knowledge some on the iScan stuff, etc, in hopes I could get him to admit to what future titles he had planned, because I really wanted hard evidence on the whole Ys 4 thing too for Nightwolve (which ultimately Tobias never mentioned or admits to have pressed or had plans to do so. He in fact stated he planned to stop doing RPG releases and get back into the other genres.).
Ends up Tobias sends me more packages. They include the Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III games along with Twin Bee One has a secret game he doesn't want mentioned until he reveals it on his website. Its so secret he wont even tell me the name of it. Any guess what it is? Yes, Dracula X. The f*cker made a boxset for Dracula X.
After his last packages arrived and I got my proof collected, I cut off any contact with him and went dark. So here we are now, its time for the convention, and good ole Tobias promoting a fake booth for his own wares at a real convention. The irony of it all.
So yeah info has all been collected and will be forwarded to Konami Europe in good time.
Tobias. You pulled the Sapphire shit. You lied and cheated your way into high profits with Sapphire fakes. You came back again with more overpriced wares, not willing to even come down to reasonable repro prices. Just typical Tobias behavior, trying to milk the PCE/TG community for what its worth. You caused many including myself and people I know a large amount of stress, especially with this shit you have done to Nightwolve. You thought you were irreproachable and untouchable in all of this. Just some wanna be Victor Ireland all nice and safe hiding in Europe funding your upscaler purchases off the PCE community.
So here we are now. And the fact of the matter is if you'd come here and apologized for all the Sapphire shit you pulled on us, gave Nightwolve a fair shake instead of going behind his back and taking advantage of a situation, and you actually priced your shit according to reasonable repro value, much of this could have been avoided. You make great quality repros, but you're an self serving a$$hole, 100 percent through and through.
So yeah, you did it your way, so now I did it mine. You paid some of us back in what will now be both embarrassment and freebee merchandise, and a few of your own bucks spent to send said stuff, which I guess makes up for ripping me and Eric off on Sapphire. Konami can do what they will with said info. It will be up to them to decide what to do with you since it is Konami Europe that would be tasked with doing anything about Dracula X, etc.
GG Tobias, GG.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 07:29:32 AM
I loled so hard, I peed myself.
f*ck that guy. and f*ck anyone who buys his stuff. Can't wait to see the ignorant ass collectards on FB spreading this shit like wildfire.
Maybe Aetherbyte should do a PSA about this crap.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 28, 2015, 07:42:00 AM
Damn.
Damn. :)
And to think, I thought Prof was going I stop playing everything but tank simulations.
Ha!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Opethian on July 28, 2015, 07:48:53 AM
If anything, post the fake Pit Fighter footage. I want to see that.
Me too! :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 08:04:52 AM
I will try to find where I put that. What I did was a initial Duo start screen mixed in little photoshopping of fake load screens and a title screen with animated "Push run to Start", mixed in with the Genesis game as far as actual gameplay goes. I fed the video playback from my xp computer onto my crt tv via svideo, set up by my Duo. Recording it on my Samsung mini tablet while trying to show myself putting in a blank cd-r and turn the power button on the Duo while recording my hands, system, etc, and making it look convincing enough and timing it right was all a pain.
This was back in early April or so I think. It would have been funny if he took the bait, asked for video proof and would have thought it was real, but as is the fact that he didn't made me laugh too, because I mean, Pit Fighter and all....
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Opethian on July 28, 2015, 08:05:04 AM
You should have told in that David Hasslehoff was a unlockable character in the TG port. That would have been your ticket!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 28, 2015, 08:09:21 AM
I will try to find where I put that. What I did was a initial Duo start screen mixed in little photoshopping of fake load screens and a title screen with animated "Push run to Start", mixed in with the Genesis game as far as actual gameplay goes. I fed the video playback from my xp computer onto my crt tv via svideo, set up by my Duo. Recording it on my Samsung mini tablet while trying to show myself putting in a blank cd-r and turn the power button on the Duo while recording my hands, system, etc, and making it look convincing enough and timing it right was all a pain.
This was back in early April or so I think. It would have been funny if he took the bait, asked for video proof and would have thought it was real, but as is the fact that he didn't made me laugh too, because I mean, Pit Fighter and all....
That's awesome. I will make a video with that footage, if you allow me :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: T2KFreeker on July 28, 2015, 08:11:15 AM
You go Mike. I can see where this was headed. Good Lord.
I also would like to see the said fake pit Fighter footage, actually. Would be quite interesting.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 08:14:58 AM
I will look and see if I still have it, but dont hold your breath waiting for it. It was one of those things that got stuffed in a folder and forgotten about after I pulled the final video off my Samsung Galaxy Player and realized he wasnt interested, so I don't know if I saved it ot not.
I have to archive about 30-60 gbs a month of stuff I come across, content Ive worked on, or wish to save like archived drivers for pc parts, so I will have to check through some disc and my secondary drives and see what I can find. I cant save everything on here because shit just piles up over time and I cant keep track of it all, and I have to clean house hard drive wise once a month.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on July 28, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
I absolutely love how he puts things like "(c) 1986 1993 KONAMI" on the discs ... at exactly the same time that he's violating that same copyright.
Nice package though ... he really does have some sense of style.
Having a bunch of those confiscated will probably cost him a pretty penny if Konami get off there asses and stomps all over him. :wink:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 08:38:26 AM
I should mention, Tobias seemed very secretive about the whole Dracula X thing. He refused to even name it in the emails and did not want me to tell anyone about it until it was announced on his website. I dont know how many of this set he made, nor if he sent any out yet to anyone else. I think the German postal worker strike f*cked up his release plans some. It is possible other people have a copy of it also, but if not then I may be the only one, depending on if Tobias continues forward with plans to sell it after seeing what has transpired here today.
If anyone is curious about the contents, the disc are both pressed. One is the Japanese release, the other is the English translated copy with the New german audio intro. The extras inside are collectors buttons, a leather cross of some type, flyer, cards, a fake wooden stake, etc. Like I said prior, guy does awesome work, and in this case he seems to have done the game more justice then Konami would have.
Its just that he is a f*cking a$$hole. After pulling the Sapphire shit, he takes most of the negatives about the repro market, combines them with all the shit people loved and hated about Victor Ireland and Xseed and similar, and presents it in one way overpriced package.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 08:44:29 AM
I absolutely love how he puts things like "(c) 1986 1993 KONAMI" on the discs ... at exactly the same time that he's violating that same copyright.
Nice package though ... he really does have some sense of style.
Having a bunch of those confiscated will probably cost him a pretty penny if Konami get off there asses and stomps all over him. :wink:
The thing is, Konami probably will not do anything. Their current state of affairs is pretty sad. I dont think they really care for or respect their classic IP anymore, and the only side of Konami that can even legally go after Tobias is the division in Europe, and I imagine they would have even less interest in doing so.
But the fact is, they will have a heads up. I dont think they will go after him unless he actually post this Dracula X set for sale, and as of now he has not done so. Him sending me a copy for free is still him just giving something away. They are only going to pursue something if money is involved on their side of the world.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 08:49:12 AM
That is the worst part, I think.
The products look nice, but are marketed to profit off of collectard cunts that just blindly throw money at shelf pieces that they then stand in front of while using their collectors edition pocket pussies they all bought.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Lost Monkey on July 28, 2015, 09:04:28 AM
The products look nice, but are marketed to profit off of collectard cunts that just blindly throw money at shelf pieces that they then stand in front of while using their collectors edition pocket pussies they all bought.
..and don't even have the decency to use a JO crystal...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on July 28, 2015, 09:06:08 AM
Great googly moogly, that's some over the top packaging. And it's of another stolen translation, so his whole "I didn't know!" routine was obviously complete horse shit, not that anyone was buying it anyway.
As for whether or not Konami will do anything, I can see them doing a cease and desist. It wouldn't take much time or billable hours, as you're not actually going to court or have to prove anything yet.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 09:10:53 AM
I think we should plaster it all over Konami's facebook and go "WHERE CAN WE BUY THIS, KONAMI? ITS A NEW RELEASE? WE NEED IT. THIS GUY IS SELLING IT"
*post address/etc.*
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 09:12:46 AM
Lol that would be pretty funny. If someone wants Tobias address they can drop me a PM.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 09:13:46 AM
I am up for it. Social Media is hilarious about this sort of thing. It'll probably be shared into oblivion.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 09:17:37 AM
PM sent.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 09:25:17 AM
Sent you a pic of the shipping label that you can post too. Better then just typing his address out. It makes it more real seeing the whole label with the "PROMO" part listed on it lol!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MotherGunner on July 28, 2015, 09:29:08 AM
Holy Shit...Wow!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 09:35:11 AM
I also want to add, on all my current raffles going on, including the Tobias repros, anyone who would be willing to make a $3-5 donation to Nightwolve will get two entries into the randomizer instead of one in the randomizer drawing. If you donate like $10 to him, that will get you three entires instead of two. This extra entry can be applied to only one raffle, so keep that in mind and choose wisely on how you would want them applied. All you have to do is send me proof via pm of making said donation, in thanks of Nightwolve and his years of service to our community.
Please be aware that Nightwolve did not ask me to do this, I just wanted to try to get him some of his due for everything he has done for the community.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Opethian on July 28, 2015, 10:02:02 AM
whats his paypal?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 10:03:34 AM
Crap I was thinking it is on his website. You may want to drop him a PM to make sure.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on July 28, 2015, 10:40:39 AM
Wow, Prof. That's some high-level long-game shit you played. Well done, sir.
Am I the only one who thinks that Drac X package is ugly as shit? I mean, I can see the time and detail that went into it, but ew.
And Konami may very well cease-and-desist that shit. If you don't protect your IPs, you risk losing control over them. From what little I understand about such things...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on July 28, 2015, 11:08:02 AM
I would be stunned if Konami didn't do something about that. Castlevania is one of its biggest IPs, and it's still active. I seem to remember a period of time 10-15 years ago when Konami was trying to suppress online availability of the ISO, especially lossless rips. Seriously, that is the single most dangerous looking PCE game to bootleg.
Nice work, Professor. I hope they nail him.
God, he stole another translation, too? That's infuriating.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on July 28, 2015, 11:08:16 AM
That's above and beyond of anything I was going to do. Nightwolve will get some donations tonight for sure. :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: turboswimbz on July 28, 2015, 11:21:57 AM
http://www.ysutopia.net/index.php
DONATE button is down on left side if the page . 8)
not sure if Night doesn't have another preferred method though.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bartre on July 28, 2015, 12:15:11 PM
Dang Prof. that's way beyond anything I think i could pull off. kudos, chap.
KUDOS.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on July 28, 2015, 01:16:53 PM
Well played, Prof. Here's hoping Konami cares enough to do something about it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on July 28, 2015, 02:21:07 PM
I donated $5 to NightWolve. It's a small amount but at least it will pay him a beer or two.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 02:35:33 PM
I donated $5 to NightWolve. It's a small amount but at least it will pay him a beer or two.
Do me a favor and on the raffle you want to enter your extra entry on state you donated and want to apply it on said raffle. That will help me keep track of things on that.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on July 28, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
Its like made of foam rubber, so you cant even use it on the homeless. He goes to the trouble of providing a wooden box, but yes, a rubber stake. Has any of the Belmonts ever even used wooden stakes in any of the games? I always thought they used daggers, axe, holy water, bible and boomerang cross thing as an optional weapon. I cant recall a wooden stake ever being used. Its just strange to me, but whatever.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SephirothTNH on July 28, 2015, 02:46:47 PM
Wasn't there a wooden stake in Castlevania II? I think it was an event item or maybe just took up space in your inventory? Or maybe I'm thinking about Dracula's rib.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 02:50:41 PM
Hell you'd think I would know this since I loved all the older games, SOTN and prior, and esp Castlevania 2, but I cant recall that. I planned to pick up part 2 again on Nes soon, so I will see soon enough I guess.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on July 28, 2015, 02:56:00 PM
Its like made of foam rubber, so you cant even use it on the homeless.
What? Why does it even exist? It should have come with a Bible instead. That would have been hilarious. It'd be easier to get across customs than a dagger or a holy axe. And you can tie it to a rope to get the spin action to use on homeless people.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SephirothTNH on July 28, 2015, 03:02:37 PM
Found it. http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Oak_Stake
It was the oak stake and you used it to destroy an orb or something in one of the mansions. CV II was my favorite as a kid. I played it again several years ago and couldn't help feeling that it could have been so much better. Still love it though.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cabbage on July 28, 2015, 04:10:54 PM
I think we should plaster it all over Konami's facebook and go "WHERE CAN WE BUY THIS, KONAMI? ITS A NEW RELEASE? WE NEED IT. THIS GUY IS SELLING IT"
*post address/etc.*
This is a good idea! Count me in
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 04:26:39 PM
When you guys post on the Konami FB page please post links. I need my lulz. This may go better then me contacting Konami Europe, due to the possible exposure you guys could generate.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on July 28, 2015, 04:47:02 PM
Found it. http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Oak_Stake
It was the oak stake and you used it to destroy an orb or something in one of the mansions. CV II was my favorite as a kid. I played it again several years ago and couldn't help feeling that it could have been so much better. Still love it though.
I wonder how many kids try to bring stakes to school back in the day..
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 06:17:16 PM
Lol man, so clueless:
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/just dumb as rocks_zpsbj8incd0.png) (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/Amakusa666/media/just dumb as rocks_zpsbj8incd0.png.html)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 06:42:58 PM
I posted to Konami's FB page, but I can't link to it. You'll have to check it on the left side where they list that shit.
I didn't post his address yet though. saving that for when shit hits the fan.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: csgx1 on July 28, 2015, 06:43:23 PM
Wow, absolutely hilarious! Well played scheme Professor. Perfect timing with him just making the Dracula X repro. :clap:
Its like made of foam rubber, so you cant even use it on the homeless.
What? Why does it even exist? It should have come with a Bible instead. That would have been hilarious. It'd be easier to get across customs than a dagger or a holy axe. And you can tie it to a rope to get the spin action to use on homeless people.
Or maybe a tasty piece of wall meat on a bone. A nice snack during a play-through or it could be shared with the homeless.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 06:45:41 PM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 06:48:31 PM
Yep it shows. I can see it on the far left side of their FB page too lol!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on July 28, 2015, 07:05:11 PM
Prof, who is awesome? You're awesome.
By the way, you cab double check Tobias' postal adress by feeding the web adress of his .de website into http://www.denic.de (http://www.denic.de/) as I mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 28, 2015, 07:14:51 PM
I just did what I said I was going to do. I wanted to devalue his shit as much as possible on here if I could to get it down to a "reasonable price" or going rate anyway for sales and trades among us, and give him hell in general. Paybacks a bitch, and he had it coming long time. There is still more work to do on devaluing his stuff, but we can handle that here internally when ever the stuff pops up for sale or trade.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 28, 2015, 08:01:27 PM
I really hope people start responding on the FB page.
Maybe Twatter usage is in order.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Desh on July 29, 2015, 01:31:31 AM
This is great. Epic job prof!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on July 29, 2015, 01:51:38 AM
Wow Professor! I guess that's why they call you... "Professor" as you really dished out a valuable lesson here... "Tobias, open your book to 'Chapter 11'. "
I hope anyway!
I was wondering though, after reading the comments about whether Konami will do anything and I was thinking, why stop there? Create a situation where Konami can't ignore it because it's gone viral and out in the public. Right now Konami is trending pretty low, and they are an easy target to make fun of for their recent business decisions. I can't imagine they wouldn't react or try to do something if word got out that "Look how stupid they are! Konami doesn't even care about copyright issues for their own past works! Free Konami games for everyone!"
This could also be re-enforced by sending a letter to the copyright holders for all of the software titles that Tobias as released. Every last one of them. And the same letter too, which states that Tobias is profiteering off of the copyrighted works from this company, this company, this company, this one, this one too" and have that be in the same letter that you send out to each copyright holder. It might take some work tracking all that information down, but I think it would be worth it in the end.
If not only the public knows, but other companies as well, it should create an appropriate shut down hammer with Konami leading the charge.
Not sure if many of you knew this, but in the MSX communities, there was a place called Konamito, which was cited by Konami for having copyrighted material and they decided to shut down and reopen under a slightly different name and different content. There was a whole forum discussion about it here. (http://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/general-discussion/konamitoes-unreachable-msx-blue-limited-one-page)
And then there is this too:
Metal Gear Remake gets the okay from Konami... Not! (http://www.msx.org/news/en/original-metal-gear-remake-gets-okay-konami)
So I think they will react accordingly, especially if there is some fuel to add to the fire. As this been sent through Twitter? I know myself and Nightwolve are on Twitter and I'd be happy to send a tweet about this. I just need to lock and load. It would be more effective if we had an official tweet setup that we could copy and paste with who we want to send it to, i.e. @konami #KonamiCopyrights, et cetera.
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 03:22:04 AM
I had to coax him into admitting he knew by saying the convention date had changed, but at least he is confirming he has snitches here. at any rate, told him I know he is a punk and all, but least he could do is grow some balls and confront the whole thing here. But of course he wont. f*cking pussy. So, as I said in my reply, I will say again to you Tobias:
You are going to get everything you deserve, and it is for the right reason. You f*cked with us with the whole Sapphire thing. Now we f*ck you back. Lay back and enjoy it. I hope it hurts.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on July 29, 2015, 04:24:53 AM
I can't stand blink-smileys used in a converstation that should be taken seriously. They are the equivalent of saying "a$$hole".
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 05:04:59 AM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sadler on July 29, 2015, 05:20:30 AM
Prediction: Konami does nothing and Tobias makes more sales due to people seeing it on Konami's facebook page. Hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 05:24:09 AM
Sadly probably right, but we will see. It's worth a shot. I mean hell, I notified them months back at their EU division and they seemed to do nothing. That Hudson stuff, Konami owns the rights to a lot of it, so they could have gone after him. Now they have been notified again via email and FB, so we will see what happens.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esadajr on July 29, 2015, 05:29:17 AM
I guess since Konami is not actively protecting their IPs, this means Iga doesn't have to settle for an "spiritual successor" to Castlevania.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 05:32:01 AM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 05:41:47 AM
Hey, after giving him 99 EUR, he figures your are probably going to need something to wash the cum down with after he face raped your wallet.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SkyeWelse on July 29, 2015, 05:47:32 AM
Wow, I can't believe they made an energy drink to enjoy while they laugh at Konami and all the collector's who pay top dollar for their warez in pretty packaging.
Well, your move Konami. But I guess I'll start something on Twitter to see where it goes. :)
-Thomas
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 05:51:48 AM
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on July 29, 2015, 06:15:59 AM
I'm hoping that someone rips the hacked Force Gear disc and spreads it around the internets so that everyone can play it without having to wade through Tokimeki or give Tobias money.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 06:34:54 AM
The best, and most hilarious aspect of this for me is how he goes from the decked out full on double disc box set for Dracula X that he sent to me for free, to just a single disc thing in a case with f*cking no name/unbranded, probably dangerous to consume energy drinks, and ask for $100 basically. Who the f*ck would even be stupid enough to buy this?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on July 29, 2015, 06:51:35 AM
The best, and most hilarious aspect of this for me is how he goes from the decked out full on double disc box set for Dracula X that he sent to me for free, to just a single disc thing in a case with f*cking no name/unbranded, probably dangerous to consume energy drinks, and ask for $100 basically. Who the f*ck would even be stupid enough to buy this?
The majority of "retro game collectors" unfortunately.
Companies like Konami could start making decent money off of overpriced limited edition sets of old games.
EDIT: I just got the PCEWorks email. The big box set for Drac X is also available for 220 Euros.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on July 29, 2015, 06:58:38 AM
The best, and most hilarious aspect of this for me is how he goes from the decked out full on double disc box set for Dracula X that he sent to me for free, to just a single disc thing in a case with f*cking no name/unbranded, probably dangerous to consume energy drinks, and ask for $100 basically. Who the f*ck would even be stupid enough to buy this?
He's still selling the full "limited edition" boxed set ... for 219EU ... ouch!
Funny that he's dropped the translation patch ... guess that he's trying to avoid any controversy ... hahaha! :roll:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 07:02:14 AM
Yeah I see that now. LOL at that price....
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on July 29, 2015, 07:17:41 AM
I find it funny that a fake Drac X is supposed to cost more than a genuine one.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on July 29, 2015, 07:22:05 AM
Man, this shit just gets stupider and stupider.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 07:22:21 AM
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/Amakusa666/konami golden shower_zpsy4tyqdih.png) (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/Amakusa666/media/konami golden shower_zpsy4tyqdih.png.html)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on July 29, 2015, 07:26:26 AM
It really is impressive how %100 shameless the guy is. He just keep boosting the hype on his ratchety-ass bootlegs and does not give two f*cks for anything. He is absolutely unrepentant. It kinda reminds me of the GWB years when literally every single day you'd read the news and find out how some grotesque abuse of power had taken place while you were asleep but it was legit hard to stay mad at him for it because before you could even do some reading on the subject some other nasty thing would come to light. Sometimes the best way to have people forget about your past bad deeds is to just do so many more bad deeds that people can't even keep them straight.
I guess we needed a new Crazy Dion anyway, it gives people something to talk about.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 29, 2015, 07:30:55 AM
I'd like to know who the rat is on the forum here.
Basically, who's the biggest cunt on this forum?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bernie on July 29, 2015, 07:37:21 AM
I'm hoping that someone rips the hacked Force Gear disc and spreads it around the internets so that everyone can play it without having to wade through Tokimeki or give Tobias money.
That's easy enough to do.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on July 29, 2015, 07:39:15 AM
At this point either way I am inclined to not trust anyone from Germany or Sweden unless I have known him long time. But I am sure we have a North American member or two here too that are die hard Tobias cultist. Tobias confirmed what I knew, he has snitches. That is enough for me.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on July 29, 2015, 07:48:18 AM
It really is impressive how %100 shameless the guy is. He just keep boosting the hype on his ratchety-ass bootlegs and does not give two f*cks for anything. He is absolutely unrepentant. It kinda reminds me of the GWB years when literally every single day you'd read the news and find out how some grotesque abuse of power had taken place while you were asleep but it was legit hard to stay mad at him for it because before you could even do some reading on the subject some other nasty thing would come to light. Sometimes the best way to have people forget about your past bad deeds is to just do so many more bad deeds that people can't even keep them straight.
I guess we needed a new Crazy Dion anyway, it gives people something to talk about.
GTFO and STFO of my thread, go watch some anime or somethin'! And if you wanna talk presidential power abuses, take a good look at who's in the WhiteHouse now...
GTFO and STFO of my thread, go watch some anime or somethin'! And if you wanna talk presidential power abuses, take a good look at who's in the WhiteHouse now...
His post was about Tobias and this isn't Fighting Street. You two don't need to f*ck up another perfectly good thread, do you?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on July 29, 2015, 08:07:49 AM
Hmmm, you consider my thread here a perfectly good one ?? I wouldn't quite say that myself to be honest. ;)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on July 29, 2015, 08:11:40 AM
Lets keep the political arguments to facebook nightwolve. No need to ruin a perfectly good thread.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on July 29, 2015, 08:13:09 AM
Yeah, that's my line, and tell it to SignOfZealotry who brought George W. Bush into my thread!
So a second guy referring to my thread as a "perfectly good one." I mean, just look at the title (and my OP)! Makes me chuckle. :P
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 29, 2015, 08:14:28 AM
It became good on page 26. :wink:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on July 29, 2015, 08:14:53 AM
Oh we live for this kind of drama man!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on July 29, 2015, 08:23:33 AM
Hmmm, you consider my thread here a perfectly good one ?? I wouldn't quite say that myself to be honest. ;)
How is exposing and documenting the shittiness of Tobias not a good thing, not to mention all the tasty lulz?
It still makes me chuckle to see the thread characterized as a "perfectly good one" given some of the excesses, if you will. ;) I wouldn't characterize it this way, my feeling would be more along the lines of say "necessary evil." I like to think I'm justified enough when I do take excesses, but it's subjective and people's opinions will vary on what's going too far or not.
Quote
He did, but it was as a comparison to Tobias and not out of the blue.
Yeah, he shoehorned it in. Wonder if he'll find a way to work in Fox News later.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on July 29, 2015, 08:37:22 AM
Had he made the exact same point but instead used Obama, would you still be pissed off and ready to bitch? I'm also a republican and have little use for Obama, but that doesn't make me blind to all the shit Bush pulled.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 29, 2015, 08:38:32 AM
GTFO and STFO of my thread, go watch some anime or somethin'! And if you wanna talk presidential power abuses, take a good look at who's in the WhiteHouse now...
NightWolve, we will have to agree to disagree because we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.
Ha!
Let's talks bout something safer:
I still love the Typing of Ys... So awesome. :)
Hugs. :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on July 29, 2015, 08:49:07 AM
This forum is getting more neo-geo.com like, we even have our own Dion Dakis. lol
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on July 29, 2015, 09:05:17 AM
I like the people on FB who are oblivious to the snarky tone of the posts.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on July 29, 2015, 09:13:17 AM
Had he made the exact same point but instead used Obama, would you still be pissed off and ready to bitch? I'm also a republican and have little use for Obama, but that doesn't make me blind to all the shit Bush pulled.
Yeah, I would've, he's only gonna get troll responses from me now and in the future - I did exactly what I told him in the Anime thread (you know, where he point-blank called me a psychopath and went to ridiculous lengths to defend it) that if he posts in my threads or replies back to me in the future, he'll only get back uncivil responses. You mistakenly thought my post was about his politics - it wasn't (only caused he shoehorned Bush did I refer to the current president).
I made the mistake of defending him once to someone here, but I had no idea how irrational he could become over his precious unimpeachable masterpiece of an anime (Grave of the Fireflies) not being thought of as anything other than 10/10 or 4 stars out of 4. For this, because I only would give it a "C+" or 2 stars rating (my word was not good or bad, just "alright"), he brought "articles of impeachment" against me and branded me a psychopath... He could've apologized, just like Tobias could've, but pride always prevents people from admitting wrongdoing even when they're 100% in the wrong! So no, that's why I'm pissed at him and why he's just DarkKobold to me now.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on July 29, 2015, 11:29:14 AM
Gentlemen, gentlemen. Can't we just all agree that every politician is terrible? Left, right, center, whatever. The important thing here is that if I were to wager who a Tobias proxy is, I'd guess it's True Puffer. That guy is like a bizarre parody of everything that I hate about having old video games as a hobby.
Either way, I'm looking forward to a response from Konami.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on July 29, 2015, 12:07:05 PM
The nice thing is Nightwolve, you can I can for the most part discuss things in a civil manner despite the fact that we are total polar opposites politically. I'll discuss anything with anyone as long as it remains civil. Passion is good but once things breakdown into insults and insinuations I exit stage right, err left in my case.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Duo_R on July 29, 2015, 01:19:21 PM
Why do we care about Konami doing something about this? I don't think they care about consoles anymore and have pissed off most of their loyal fans already.
And posting the info about Tobias on their page seems to have sparked interest in future purchases from Tobias. Lol
PS - I can't believe the price on the Dracula X limited edition. Damn!!!!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on July 29, 2015, 01:32:08 PM
Grave of the Fireflies was okay -- I'd give it a marginal thumbs up -- but I'd choose One Piece: Strong World over it any day. Now there's a damn fun film. (seriously people, if you've skipped One Piece because it's "kiddie", then you're missing out)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on July 29, 2015, 01:59:36 PM
I saw Pom Poko the other night, so I'm almost done in completing my run of seeing every Studio Ghibli release ever made, but I'll refrain on revealing my opinion on it... I forgot some things I learned anecdotally about some anime fans so I shouldn't have ever bothered with that Anime thread. Just gonna leave it for facebook... ;)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: bartre on July 29, 2015, 02:02:24 PM
I am a communist and my diet consists purely of aborted fetii. When I'm not reading the satanic bible or posting about spaghetti monsters, I enjoy bullshitting with Nightwolve. I am living proof that political/religious divides are not unbridgable. :D
Why do we care about Konami doing something about this? I don't think they care about consoles anymore and have pissed off most of their loyal fans already.
And posting the info about Tobias on their page seems to have sparked interest in future purchases from Tobias. Lol
PS - I can't believe the price on the Dracula X limited edition. Damn!!!!
It's the principle, it's is not f*cking fair, that Tobias profits this big or nightwolve gets shunned for his translation. Even if it is a slim chance at least it has been stated.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: technozombie on July 29, 2015, 04:26:06 PM
Well that Shadowhawk guy sued those repro people. I doubt there was very much money in that. Perhaps there is a chance Konami will do something.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on July 29, 2015, 08:29:22 PM
Erotic Violence, now that sounds like a successor to Fifty Shades.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on July 29, 2015, 09:43:33 PM
It's a pachinko game? Sigh.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 29, 2015, 11:31:44 PM
It's the principle, it's is not f*cking fair, that Tobias profits this big or nightwolve gets shunned for his translation. Even if it is a slim chance at least it has been stated.
Just a minor correction, but it'd be Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc. on the Dracula X fan translation team, and me and my team for Xak III, plus I did actually do the script extraction for Tru way back for SO II, but yeah... No offense meant, Craig, but I have hate-obsessed hounding trolls from my Ys projects that'll claim I'm lyingly taking credit for projects I never worked on if little details like this get mixed up, so I'm made to be responsible for claims I had no part in if that makes sense to you... In other words, on 4chan or GameFAQs (or even Ancient Land of Ys), they'll say NightWolve is falsely taking credit for the Dracula X project because they saw a statement like yours! Somebody else gets something wrong, I'll get the blame for it, I have that level of hack trolls defending XSEED, lying about me, using fudged info to attack my credibility, etc.
I realize in context you mean for everybody in a fan project, but just making it more accurate since Tobias' Dracula X repro/bootleg now came up.
I guess when I get a chance I'll read Professor's whole post and comment more. But for now, just really wanted to say thanks to him for the raffle donation incentive he added to his raffles! All of a sudden I start seeing a string of donations, some of which came from a few who had just donated a little while ago, and was wondering what was going on. Nobody ever did something like that for me and the PR on my website does not help since I worked with and was surrounded by bad people and was left with bad outcomes, so my site is not, shall we say, a "happy" place like say DoxPhile and what not... ;) But yeah, I didn't really know what to say to Mike about it, it was surprising he planned all this out and did a string of raffles like that!
I've had fights here, but I've met many good people and though you mostly remember the negative, PCEFX still has something I never saw elsewhere with its raffles, a generosity that you don't see too often! By and large, there's far more positive here it's just that we tend to focus on negative and it becomes more memorable than all the boring/average ~98% positive or neutral threads on gaming, tech support, buying/selling, etc.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: wildfruit on July 30, 2015, 08:13:57 AM
All of a sudden I start seeing a string of donations, some of which came from a few who had just donated a little while ago, and was wondering what was going on. Nobody ever did something like that for me and the PR on my website does not help since I worked with and was surrounded by bad people and was left with bad outcomes, so my site is not, shall we say, a "happy" place like say DoxPhile and what not... ;) But yeah, I didn't really know what to say to Mike about it, it was surprising he planned all this out and did a string of raffles like that!
...
Professor is Professor: he knew that folks were intrigued by his Adventures With Tobias *and* he knew folks were drooling over the bootlegs. He was going to give away the bootlegs no matter what (he actually tried to do this once in the past, with another bootleg, but somebody got upset with him and he gave the bootleg away locally, instead...I thought that might happen again—thankfully it didn't).
*** Anyway, the supreme moment of brilliance is when Professor realized that folks would be more encouraged to "donate" if it increased odds in a raffle. ***
Nothing like a little bit of self-interest to motivate people to make a donation. :)
I am honestly not trying to be cynical—I think many folks would have donated without any raffles—but I can't help but feel that the total sum of donations would have amounted to significantly less.
This, of course, is why we love Professor :) —he single-handedly created a "pledge drive" and knew how to nurture it, manage it, and keep inertia going.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sparky on July 31, 2015, 02:28:26 AM
It's the principle, it's is not f*cking fair, that Tobias profits this big or nightwolve gets shunned for his translation. Even if it is a slim chance at least it has been stated.
Just a minor correction, but it'd be Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc. on the Dracula X fan translation team, and me and my team for Xak III, plus I did actually do the script extraction for Tru way back for SO II, but yeah... No offense meant, Craig, but I have hate-obsessed hounding trolls from my Ys projects that'll claim I'm lyingly taking credit for projects I never worked on if little details like this get mixed up, so I'm made to be responsible for claims I had no part in if that makes sense to you... In other words, on 4chan or GameFAQs (or even Ancient Land of Ys), they'll say NightWolve is falsely taking credit for the Dracula X project because they saw a statement like yours! Somebody else gets something wrong, I'll get the blame for it, I have that level of hack trolls defending XSEED, lying about me, using fudged info to attack my credibility, etc.
Got ya man 100%, i was way to general in my comment i should have been specific, sorry man. Best you do clarify but i meant well which you know.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 31, 2015, 12:35:12 PM
All of a sudden I start seeing a string of donations, some of which came from a few who had just donated a little while ago, and was wondering what was going on. Nobody ever did something like that for me and the PR on my website does not help since I worked with and was surrounded by bad people and was left with bad outcomes, so my site is not, shall we say, a "happy" place like say DoxPhile and what not... ;) But yeah, I didn't really know what to say to Mike about it, it was surprising he planned all this out and did a string of raffles like that!
...
Professor is Professor: he knew that folks were intrigued by his Adventures With Tobias *and* he knew folks were drooling over the bootlegs. He was going to give away the bootlegs no matter what (he actually tried to do this once in the past, with another bootleg, but somebody got upset with him and he gave the bootleg away locally, instead...I thought that might happen again—thankfully it didn't).
*** Anyway, the supreme moment of brilliance is when Professor realized that folks would be more encouraged to "donate" if it increased odds in a raffle. ***
Nothing like a little bit of self-interest to motivate people to make a donation. :)
I am honestly not trying to be cynical—I think many folks would have donated without any raffles—but I can't help but feel that the total sum of donations would have amounted to significantly less.
This, of course, is why we love Professor :) —he single-handedly created a "pledge drive" and knew how to nurture it, manage it, and keep inertia going.
Something like that. The initial ones I got were not a set Tobias sent to me, those were loose copies from a trade I made because the guy had Tobias mailing address included with them. I did not care for those titles much and really just wanted Tobias mailing address and the other few games I got in the trade also. The mailing address perplexed me because I thought Tobias was still moving stuff out of Sweden, at least through a proxy or something, and not Germany.
Those initial copies I offered here for trade at really low value went to a long time friend here in a small low value trade (I give and trade with friends all the time, got plenty who can vouch for that). Evidently cjameslv just felt that I should just give stuff away for free all the time to whomever or something though, even if its at my expense, because Tobias or because he gives plastic trays away all the time in private...whatever. Don't really give a flying f*ck what his reasoning was.
Basically cjameslv was having a rather stupid moment thread crapping on someone who has probably held more raffles and give aways over the years then he will ever dream of doing. So yeah, thread locked. Should be pointed out though that said thread crapper WAS NOT thread crapping over gbaplayer's high price Tobias proxy sale thread, so yeah...
I mean look, I am a fairly generous person, within reason. If I feel the need to be compensated for something I paid out for in some way, then that may just need to be how it will play out so I can feel right about it. I don't care if its a Tobias boot, a Famicom boot, a 3DO boot, or some normal non-repro copy of something.
If I have something here and I don't want it and feel like I can eat the cost and not stress over it, then cool too, which I have done often here giving away game systems and system hardware and games, or like over at Digital Press when I gave away a fully working Rastan jamma board.
If someone gives me something I don't want or need, then odds are I'm just going to flat out give it away as long as someone pays shipping also. Thats just how it is. How I handle things though, I am not going to let anyone, especially cjameslv, dictate how I do it.
Anyway, moving on, after contacting Tobias and him sending packages, my extras from him went to Herc and Quoth other then the spare Force Gear I set aside, which was CIB. I planned to raffle it for awhile now and try to work an angle that would get Nick some extra donations, but had to sit on it and wait till the Tobias stuff played out near the end of this month because it was one of the games Tobias had not sold yet on his site.
So raffling it would have tipped him off to what I was doing. Ended up with the spare Splatterhouse too to raffle, then out of nowhere Bernie sent me the extra Tobias Godzilla, Sylphia, and Renny Blaster... so yeah, 5 games to raffle, perfect timing! Bernie is a super generous guy, so people should be sending him thanks too!
It all worked out great. People win stuff, Nightwolve gets some extra donations, lulz were had at Tobias expense, and me and Quoth got some compensation back off Tobias, and Herc got an excuse to drag his Duo-R out again so he can play that TurboDuo Memories box set and those Xak and Startling Odyssey II rpgs. And mother f*cking cjameslv is still on my shit list. All's well that ends well.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 31, 2015, 12:56:54 PM
Ha! :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gypsy on July 31, 2015, 02:07:36 PM
The best, and most hilarious aspect of this for me is how he goes from the decked out full on double disc box set for Dracula X that he sent to me for free, to just a single disc thing in a case with f*cking no name/unbranded, probably dangerous to consume energy drinks, and ask for $100 basically. Who the f*ck would even be stupid enough to buy this?
The majority of "retro game collectors" unfortunately.
Companies like Konami could start making decent money off of overpriced limited edition sets of old games.
EDIT: I just got the PCEWorks email. The big box set for Drac X is also available for 220 Euros.
This is a disturbing thought that mirrored my own when I saw this linked to on another site. I will never touch this shit but I bet there are enough idiots for him to "sell out". I mean jfc just buy a REAL copy of the game for less money.
@Prof: Good shit. This thread has been pretty great since you posted about your Tobias trolling.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cjameslv on July 31, 2015, 04:06:22 PM
Lol prof glad to see you still think of me :oops: i told you in the first place and give the games away...took you long enough. Charging shipping is normal so not sure why you would think otherwise? So cry all you want about me dictating to you and you not doing it....then going ahead and doing exactly that lol. Good game!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ShadowKitty777 on July 31, 2015, 04:30:15 PM
Holy shit this is super interesting, but it's a lot to take in. Is there a cliff's note's version?
I did notice that Drac-X thing. I actually had it shared to me, which is why I popped on the forums to see what you guys were saying about it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 31, 2015, 05:24:46 PM
Lol prof glad to see you still think of me :oops: i told you in the first place and give the games away...took you long enough. Charging shipping is normal so not sure why you would think otherwise? So cry all you want about me dictating to you and you not doing it....then going ahead and doing exactly that lol. Good game!
God you're f*cking stupid. I have stated multiple times Bernie sent me the current Godzilla, Renny, and Sylphia, and I am paying it forward by raffling them with my other two items up for raffle. Nothing from that locked thread is up for raffle right now. f*cking noobs, I swear....
I didn't do what you wanted with the games in that thread. I already had a Neutopia raffle going on, and as stated prior, really would rather been compensated for something I traded something for unless no other options were available and interest was low. I wont do anything I don't feel right about it, and I don't let f*ckwits dictate what I do with my stuff.
I give when I want, I trade when I want. When I sit around going hmmm, I should do a new trade or raffle, the name cjameslv doesn't f*cking come to mind or play a factor in any of it.
All you did was f*ck some interested parties out of it when I locked the thread prior, and you had a melt down making a mock thread and crying in FS when I told said interested parties to thank you for being a dick.
Per above, go back and read. Said games were traded away to a friend here who is a long time member, Mother Gunner, so your stupidity was his gain.
Your thread crapping only made me lock the thread, tell everyone no, and set the stuff aside until someone I knew decided they wanted it. MG had stuff he didn't want, I had stuff I didn't want, we did a swap. In addition to that you got your self perma banned from any raffle I do, and any sales/trade threads I may hold.
I tell you what though cjameslv, since you want to see others give their games away so bad, why don't you jump in on that action do some major giving away of your own you self-righteous f*ck? And do something more then just 2 dollar soccer titles when you do. Give a few games away that actually f*cking matter, or game systems, or system add ons. Can you do that, and do it on a consistent basis? Because all I see here from you is minimal activity, a few post a month, and you trying to sell junk from your 3d printer when I do actually see you doing something more then one liner post.
I mean who the f*ck do you even think you are that you can just go around telling people they have to give their shit away just because you don't like the source of said items, when you don't do similar yourself constantly? You have been around here less then a year and you think you carry enough weight with people here that you can go around telling others what they have to do with their stuff? Thats f*cking ridiculous. You're a f*cking nobody selling cheap junk ran off a 3d printer.
And also, where the f*ck were you during the gbaplayer thread? Oh yeah, thats right, no where. If there was a time to thread crap, that was it, but you were nowhere to be found. What the f*ck is up with that shit?
Wanna know what the really funny thing is about this though cjameslv? The fact is I dont think I can even recall you prior to that one thread. I mean seriously, thats what I mean when I say youre a nobody that doesnt carry any weight. I mean I recognize quite a few names of new people here from last year, even though I may not be friends with them. But you, yeah, got no f*cking clue where you came from.
You basically had to thread crap to get really noticed outside of your 3D printer shit. I don't know if you just wanted extra attention, or you thought you were building some kinda rep by doing that, but all it did was blow up in your face and have me take a dump on your cheap crap you sell, and you still look stupid over it. So here I am, still doing what I have been doing all these years here for this community. WTF are you doing? Selling cheap plastics and posting a few times a month, but acting like some key player in this scene, someone with weight. f*cking despicable.
I probably wont even remember who the f*ck you are by the time Sep. or Oct. rolls around, especially after you're put on ignore, something I forgot to do the other day when I started the new raffles. Thats basically the only long term way I can make sure you stay out of my raffles, since you stay so under the radar and post so little as is. I had to go back and check that original thread as is so I could copy paste your name for the post above, because I forgot what it was, and was like "who the f*ck was that guy, I forget?".
Who the f*ck is cjameslv? Nobody, that's who. GG.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cjameslv on July 31, 2015, 06:08:13 PM
Wow, I love you too prof. This "nobody" sure has you worked up, you need to calm down man and relax. Lol your way too serious, but hey its good reads and enjoyment for the community!
As for my work towards the community: i believe my first raffle was splatterhouse then followed by many other games, created a the first write up of its kind creating a 2 port tg-16, designed some cd inserts for esteban's site, helped out quite a few with different tech issues, test over 120+ pce games to help contribute for the pce games that you dont need moon runes to play, modded alot of duos/tg-16s/even a few non obey goodies, drove 1/2 across the USA and drank margaritas with another member, sold a ton of good games for cheap until i ran out of duplicates then yeah cheapies were all that was left, and chatted up with a handful about 3d printing & design, man...
whew this list is looong! well guess main thing is im a pretty normal guy and your a f_ckin nut case so yeah, there's that BUT that is what makes our lil chats so intriguing!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MotherGunner on July 31, 2015, 06:47:07 PM
I can confirm Mike sent me the games and to my surprise, he gave me all of them which I was thankful for. Prior to me knowing I would get all of them, I offered him free pick of a lot I had and as a friend, he could have taken the whole lot but he only wanted a couple of titles. It goes to show he doesn't care to profit and saved me from giving Tobias any money. To date, I have only paid for Sapphire like many of us early on and before Blue gave them away too!
Having said that, I have no beef with cjames and he's shown me nothing but respect. We live to Obey even as Roddy Piper died today. Moment of silence....
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: HailingTheThings on July 31, 2015, 07:50:55 PM
Holy shit this is super interesting, but it's a lot to take in. Is there a cliff's note's version?
I did notice that Drac-X thing. I actually had it shared to me, which is why I popped on the forums to see what you guys were saying about it.
Prof tricked the German repro maker into giving him promo copies of his shit, so he could get his confirmed addy. In the process he was given drac x, which wasn't released yet.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on July 31, 2015, 11:57:10 PM
Damn, Roddy Piper is gone?
And I learned of it in this thread?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 01, 2015, 12:15:55 AM
A bunch of pussy bullshit in an attempt to evade the above and "sold a ton of good games..."
Outside of the fact that you are having to remember and post about your own good deeds here because no one else seems to, I have to say:
WTF did you do, a month worth of usefulness, then fade away to 3d crap sales??? I mean shit, I can look at your initial post here and all I see is you doing a 2 player console mod no one seems to use, and you posting you want to buy shit in the market place, and you signing up for raffles before you even had 100 f*cking post to your name from what it looks like (this kind of shit I despise). So how long did it take you to get generous, and when did you decide it was time to stop, and to start making money off this forum with the 3d crap?
I mean WTF do you do now? You are evading the main issue here, you expecting others to give away shit when you cant be bothered to do it yourself on a frequent occasion, let alone even be bothered to post more then a few times enough. You are not a key player or long time member around here, but you think you're in the position to go make demands of others like you are or something.
So again, since you want others to give away their shit all the time, why don't you f*cking do it yourself. If you cant be bothered to do what you expect others to do, then you can just f*ck off already. You don't have any clout around here to be going around expecting people to do what you say. Its f*cking retarded, and it gets you on shit list. Stop being a f*cking noob already and stfu.
Doing that search, something anyone here can do easily, I see you entering many a raffle, two pages worth of search entries of you doing so in less then a years time. But as far as holding them yourself, yeah, not so much at all really, I think two, though I could be wrong on that. Only the Splatterhouse one caught my attention. All else I really kept seeing was you entering others raffles.
Kinda doesn't balance out there guy, so again, you got some raffling to do of your own. Either way, stay out of others FT/FS unless welcomed, and personally, given how little you have given, but how much you have tried to take via raffles, Id feel a little guilty if I was you. You may want to do something about that. This isn't the kind of activity you should want pointed out about yourself. It's really rather pathetic and screams of "market place freebee leech".
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cjameslv on August 01, 2015, 03:23:31 PM
I feel your obsessed with me by the way you post about me, don't you have family or a girl? Whats really funny is the only reason i found this post of yours was because i got a txt from a member while at work lol but i appreciate you claiming you had to look up my name for your post. In terms of giving...hmm that weird..i sure didn't see your self righteous giving to all ass for secret santa 2014. Guess you were to busy being "generous" with the community.
I'm so glad you have forum "clout", holy sh!t..oh god... wow, my sides hurt, i was laughing so hard when i just read that! What a f_cking psycho loser you are! Isn't it time for you to disapear again for another 2 years? That way when you come back you will have even more "clout" cause you been an cough (active) giving member for so long! Thank god your giving away shit you got for free from others, what a f_cking hero you are!
Well i know i'm keeping you from earning more "clout" so i'll let you get back to it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 01, 2015, 03:59:20 PM
I feel your obsessed with me by the way you post about me, don't you have family or a girl? Whats really funny is the only reason i found this post of yours was because i got a txt from a member while at work lol but i appreciate you claiming you had to look up my name for your post. In terms of giving...hmm that weird..i sure didn't see your self righteous giving to all ass for secret santa 2014. Guess you were to busy being "generous" with the community.
No, I was busy being a single parent of two older kids who doesn't get f*cking child support. GJ there moron. My kids come first at Xmas, not the PCE forums. You should really think these things through before you open your f*cking cunt mouth.
I'm so glad you have forum "clout", holy sh!t..oh god... wow, my sides hurt, i was laughing so hard when i just read that! What a f_cking psycho loser you are! Isn't it time for you to disapear again for another 2 years? That way when you come back you will have even more "clout" cause you been an cough (active) giving member for so long! Thank god your giving away shit you got for free from others, what a f_cking hero you are!
Well i know i'm keeping you from earning more "clout" so i'll let you get back to it.
Yeah, I can be gone for two years and still do more then you ever have for people here, and that includes busting scammers and settling disputes when asked, minor tech support, getting donations going for valued members here in need, giving away systems and games (paid for or not, I have done plenty of that, more paid for then just random stuff given to me). Arcade hardware, game systems (Genesis, TG16 dock station and carry case, Xbox, Nes, etc), lots of games over the years, blah blah blah, oh yeah, also lots of lulz. And it isn't like how you make it to be anyway if I'm giving something away I got for free. It's really stupid to insinuate that.
I could have just as easily kept the games Bernie sent me, or anything else I have gotten for free from soneone over the years and did whatever with them. I am raffling Bernies Tobias stuff with my other two games to pay it forward. I try to pay it forward as often as possible. Bernie is generous, I am generous, and Nightwolve is getting extra donations due to all the generosity from the other members sending him money. Where are you in all this? Nowhere to be exact.
So again guy, instead of sticking your nose up others business on their FA/FS threads, and entering another two pages worth of raffles, why not actually f*cking do some good ones yourself and take a break from others raffles for a bit. Is it that f*cking hard for you? Are you only good for selling shit and asking for free stuff around here now? What the f*ck is your deal?
The whole point is you have no history here like this, and shouldn't be trying to dictate to others how you think things like transactions and sales threads or trade threads should play out, because it can all be thrown right back into your face ten fold. You're a f*cking nobody in the grand scheme of things, so until you really start to matter around here like most of us old timers do, you should simply sit back and stfu and stay out of our business, because we can dish it our five times as bad as you can. We have a history here, you don't.
And btw, you come off sounding really bitter and jealous. Its kinda f*cked up. Seriously. I mean I expose you for entering like two pages of raffles, and your whole retort for that is "Professor is a total a$$hole because he didn't do secret Santa". Most long term members here know I am a single parent, so I don't think something like that is really going to matter to anyone here. I don't think when I gave a xbox to Bernie a couple months back he was all like "Man, f*ck that Mike guy, I remember he didn't do Secret Santa!". I don't think anyone else was thinking this all through the years either with my issue with my kids being pretty common knowledge and all.
No, I was busy being a single parent of two older kids who doesn't get f*cking child support. GJ there moron. My kids come first at Xmas, not the PCE forums. You should really think these things through before you open your f*cking cunt mouth.
Ok, so your a broke loser, grats! No real man needs child support, your f_cking failure at life, and before you can even spout any more nonsense i have 4 kids i raise so suck my left one. Man up and quit crying your raising 2 kids, what a poor f_cking baby you are.
It's so sad you seem to think your something but in reality your a broke piece of worthless sh!t that only has excuses about every thing and no real answers to anything. If im such a nobody to you, feel free to stop responding to prove it (we know you won't)... Good game, but i'll leave you some advice: stop being a lil b!tch crying because you don't get child support and get a real f*cking job collecting cash not and forum "clout".
And please don't reply with some lame ass excuse why you have no money or about your job or any other lame ass excuse you can think of (cancer, family issues, hemorrhoids, peg leg, kid issues etc. Your obviously delusional thinking anybody would be jealous of a broke piece of sh!t with no life and only forum rep to brag about.
Get real, your comments are probably one of the saddest things i have read and i almost, just almost, feel sad about rubbing your sad state of affairs into the ground farther, but since your a piece of sh!t, i mean you must be used to getting stepped on, wiped away and forgotten. BUT don't worry, you wont be forgotten if you keep replying, i'm here for you and the entertainment you provide this forum brings joy to many (especially during slow drama times), keep it up and earn that "clout"! :lol:
Oh yes my jo bro, i am a giver! The best thing is how angry he gets (must be super angry, he called me a cunt wahahaha..oh sides hurting again) well i'm sure i will have another novel to read about how i'm a nobody and how great he is. If i run out of things to say i apologize but he's basically just repeating himself now sigh.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 02, 2015, 07:43:32 PM
No, I was busy being a single parent of two older kids who doesn't get f*cking child support. GJ there moron. My kids come first at Xmas, not the PCE forums. You should really think these things through before you open your f*cking cunt mouth.
Ok, so your a broke loser, grats! No real man needs child support, your f_cking failure at life, and before you can even spout any more nonsense i have 4 kids i raise so suck my left one. Man up and quit crying your raising 2 kids, what a poor f_cking baby you are.
It's so sad you seem to think your something but in reality your a broke piece of worthless sh!t that only has excuses about every thing and no real answers to anything. If im such a nobody to you, feel free to stop responding to prove it (we know you won't)... Good game, but i'll leave you some advice: stop being a lil b!tch crying because you don't get child support and get a real f*cking job collecting cash not and forum "clout".
And please don't reply with some lame ass excuse why you have no money or about your job or any other lame ass excuse you can think of (cancer, family issues, hemorrhoids, peg leg, kid issues etc. Your obviously delusional thinking anybody would be jealous of a broke piece of sh!t with no life and only forum rep to brag about.
Get real, your comments are probably one of the saddest things i have read and i almost, just almost, feel sad about rubbing your sad state of affairs into the ground farther, but since your a piece of sh!t, i mean you must be used to getting stepped on, wiped away and forgotten. BUT don't worry, you wont be forgotten if you keep replying, i'm here for you and the entertainment you provide this forum brings joy to many (especially during slow drama times), keep it up and earn that "clout"! :lol:
Oh yes my jo bro, i am a giver! The best thing is how angry he gets (must be super angry, he called me a cunt wahahaha..oh sides hurting again) well i'm sure i will have another novel to read about how i'm a nobody and how great he is. If i run out of things to say i apologize but he's basically just repeating himself now sigh.
Touched a nerve ehh Scrooge McJames? Seriously, you do sound bitter and jealous, lashing out the way you just did.
Yeah, so I'm a terrible guy because during the holidays I prefer to put all my money towards my kids and family. Yeah. :roll: That doesn't make me broke or needing CS, it just means I have priorities. My extra money went to those priorities. If I needed CS from my ex I'd not have made it all this time without it, going on 10 years now.
Nothing you can say here is going to make me feel like a fail. I raised my kids on my own. My son graduated this past year and is becoming a responsible young adult, working, saving money, and getting ready for college. My daughter will next year. She is already ahead in her credits so she is set to be on the same path my son currently is on. My situation is a success story.
Evidently you don't have any priorities when it comes to your kids? Are you a single parent, or are they living with your ex (or are you married and having the spouse raise your kids for you while you go travel and hang out with long distance JO buds???).
My kids wants and needs come first. They had certain things they wanted/needed, and I wanted them to have it. When they have everything they want or need, then I do what I want for myself. You can give away all the gifts you want at xmas, but as is, I doubt you gave more then a couple here anyway for all your bravado, and it doesn't make up for entering two pages worth of raffles.
At this point anything you say about you having kids, let alone raising or supporting them on your own is doubtful, especially when you are traveling around the country hanging out with other forum members. And honestly, nothing about your parenting situation will compare to mine here, and plenty here who know me personally will tell you that.
And, I mean, there are quite a few people here on this forum who are parents that are married with two incomes coming in who run into financial issues still at one point or another. Are you saying they are f*cking failures and broke losers also? It seems you may have a lot of disdain for people who don't have a lot of money when you want them to..... All this stress you have over other peoples stuff and money...is your pool running dry by chance?
Anyone willing to make the comments you made above just shows how far you are willing to go to save face after being stomped on, and I didnt even have to take it to a personal level to do it to you. Trying to make fun of someone else's personal situation however, based on your assumptions you have made off of one comment, because you have nothing else to use in this argument is a desperate, truly despicable tactic.
So honestly at this point I seriously doubt your integrity. You just proved to me how pathetic a human being and total cunt you are. Good job. Still waiting to see those awesome raffles and hell, maybe even a donation drive or two of yours to appear.
And btw, you're only on ignore so on the off chance you go dark for months on end, and try to come back and enter something of mine, I will remember who you are. I don't mind reading your post. They don't annoy me or anything like that. They are pretty humorous. Its like watching a train wreck happen in stages.
It's just that noobs like you go dark all the time and become hard to keep track of. Your JO crystals burn out or something. I don't know what it is, but you guys fade out and I honestly just don't care to have to stress trying to remember who I don't want in my sales or raffles. But I mean, feel free to keep replying here, I will keep reading as long as you stay funny, posting in your butt hurt, insanely hilarious, totally desperate manner. This isn't my thread, and personally, you have been rather amusing the past day or so. A nice cherry added to the top of the delicious chocolate sundae that was Tobias.
So whats your next move Scrooge McJames? You going to resort to calling my kids names or something because I hurt your feelings by feeding you doses of your own bullshit? You took it to a fairly personal level there, so just curious how low you plan to go here? Please, do tell? And also, don't blame me if you end up offending others and it hurts sales with the kind of shit you said above. That one is all on you. Own it baby.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on August 02, 2015, 07:58:58 PM
I have a lot of respect for single parents who raise their children without assistance from the other parent.
While I do think PP brought this argument on himself (check the length of cjameslv's first post versus the length of PP's reply), PP's long posts basically amounted to "butt out and stop judging others until you've proven yourself". It's good advice that cjameslv should follow.
My first exposure to cjameslv was the time that he spewed a holier-than-thou tirade at me in some sales thread. This is the second time I've noticed him and he's (nastily) lecturing a single father about what it means to be "a real man". I'm not impressed.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Dicer on August 02, 2015, 08:21:58 PM
I think this turd burglar is safe from them for now, they have far too many fires going already...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 02, 2015, 08:28:24 PM
Yeah it is crazy and a bit sad how hard Konami has fallen. The Japanese gaming companies still around from the 8-16 bit generation have just in general gone sour in order to squeeze dollars, or are struggling really hard to stay relevant because they are out of fresh content.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on August 02, 2015, 08:39:47 PM
We should all band together to buy the rights to Nanobreaker when Konami goes bankrupt and sells off their IPs.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on August 02, 2015, 09:38:08 PM
Ok, so your a broke loser, grats! No real man needs child support, your f_cking failure at life, and before you can even spout any more nonsense i have 4 kids i raise so suck my left one. Man up and quit crying your raising 2 kids, what a poor f_cking baby you are.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/family?s=t
Let's just read that and turn off the dumb, please. A family is a functional unit consisting of the mom and dad. In most normal circumstances, both parents earn money to support the kids. Shitting on someone for something like this just makes you look like a giant tool.
Quote
It's so sad you seem to think your something but in reality your a broke piece of worthless sh!t that only has excuses about every thing and no real answers to anything. If im such a nobody to you, feel free to stop responding to prove it (we know you won't)... Good game, but i'll leave you some advice: stop being a lil b!tch crying because you don't get child support and get a real f*cking job collecting cash not and forum "clout".
ProfProf collects both money and forum clout. He's been around here for a long. ass. time. You must not know diddly-doo-dick about the dude if you think he's some broke ass scrub. Do you think he'd be handing out freebs if he needed money, retard?
Also why do you censor the words bitch and shit, but make no attempt to censor the word f*cking. This makes you look like you fell off the AOL train and landed at ForumTown.
Quote
And please don't reply with some lame ass excuse why you have no money or about your job or any other lame ass excuse you can think of (cancer, family issues, hemorrhoids, peg leg, kid issues etc. Your obviously delusional thinking anybody would be jealous of a broke piece of sh!t with no life and only forum rep to brag about.
I like how you think family issues and cancer are lame ass excuses for having financial issues. What other excuses are lame? I imagine you think these are lame too:
Losing both legs in a car accident. Having house burn down. Tornado destroyed everything. House was robbed. Kids kidnapped by ninjas. Getting shot in the face. Shark bit arm off. Identity stolen by terrorists.
Quote
Get real, your comments are probably one of the saddest things i have read and i almost, just almost, feel sad about rubbing your sad state of affairs into the ground farther, but since your a piece of sh!t, i mean you must be used to getting stepped on, wiped away and forgotten. BUT don't worry, you wont be forgotten if you keep replying, i'm here for you and the entertainment you provide this forum brings joy to many (especially during slow drama times), keep it up and earn that "clout"! :lol:
It's funny, your comments are pretty sad. I cringed after reading the post I am replying to here.
You are demonstrating your noob status extremely hard when you strut into a forum and start slinging shit at someone like ProfProf, who's been around here since before you probably even knew what a PC Engine was.
It's also excessively hilarious that you're doing all of this in a thread where he literally went out of his way to trap a douchebag and stick it to him, all for taking advantage of, and screwing over forum members.
This would be kind of like if you were one of the POWs at the end of Rambo 2, and when he shows up, you call him a giant sack of shit as he flies your stupid ass to safety.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on August 02, 2015, 11:57:26 PM
This bickering is pointless.
Tobias is stealing another translation from Tom. That's what you should be focused on. Not this he said/she said crap, and not even Konami's fall from grace.
It may be a PC-FX game, but elmer and I are a week away from giving this community the biggest original translation patch it has seen in a long time. No promises, but if things go well, there might be another before too much more time goes by.
However, how do you think we like the thought of going through all this trouble just to line a counterfeiter's pockets?
I've dreamed of doing translations of many PCE-CD games for years now, but if Tobias starts printing "Special Editions" of every translation that might turn a profit, and actually succeeds because not enough people grasp what he's really doing, I'm out. You might think that that's just an empty threat, but I'll tell you this: I'd rather the Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy Stories translations be hacked so that they can only run on emulators than see Tobias make repros of them.
Exposing Tobias to Konami before he could get his product out was clever. Now, is there anything else we can do? Have all the hosts of youtube gaming shows that have shown his stuff been made aware of the truth behind Sapphire, Mega Man, and Xak III/Startling Odyssey? I don't mean through youtube comment flaming, either.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on August 03, 2015, 02:58:14 AM
"I'm out" was a bit melodramatic, but I hope you guys understand how poisonous this is. It looks like anything anybody makes is going to be targeted by this guy, probably because CDs are easy to make.
Unauthorized reproductions are illegal and profiteering is unethical. I want nothing to do with any of that whatsoever. It's really that simple.
If elmer, Tom, Nightwolve or Esperknight ever find the time, I would love to do more games. Did you know that Tenshi no Uta 1 is a wonderful RPG and its script is uncompressed SHIFT-JIS text? Did you know that Xanadu I would be massively easier to hack if the TED2 works as a RAM expansion?
But by the looks of it, we can either watch our stuff get bootlegged, which sucks, or we can force things to work in emulators only, which also sucks. Or we can just not bother.
I feel so sorry for Tom. First Mega Man, and now this? He and I finished everything for Spriggan Mark 2 except for subbing/dubbing the cutscenes (the script is ready). I wonder how he feels about finishing that now?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: escarioth on August 03, 2015, 03:06:05 AM
Holy freaking shit. 8-[ i knew something was weird with those repros... :-k
if people wants special edition that bad... should'nt we produce them ourselves here ? :dance: even if box made of cheap paper in the most rustic way.. id gladly buy products translated by the real person who made it
at least i could help that person for more of his/her works in the future
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 03, 2015, 03:35:23 AM
Exposing Tobias to Konami before he could get his product out was clever. Now, is there anything else we can do? Have all the hosts of youtube gaming shows that have shown his stuff been made aware of the truth behind Sapphire, Mega Man, and Xak III/Startling Odyssey? I don't mean through youtube comment flaming, either.
From the sounds of it, some have and just had reactions like, "aw, man!" and then left their videos up praising the boots continue to generate ad revenue and couldn't be bothered to at least milk the situation with a provocative exposé video.*
But more small-time youtube wannabe-celebrities than influential ones got free samples and they all cater to the worst kind of collectards. The kind that would find the bootlegged translations all the more attractive after learning the potential consequences for future projects. It would only make the few currently bootlegged translations all the more "rare" and profitable as an investment.
I'm pretty sure that HappyConsoleGamer is one of the people that Joe named specifically, that he informed of the history of Tobias, Sapphire through translations.
Here's the description of his video praising the Turbo set:
Quote
http://pceworks.wordpress.com/ SUBSCRIBE! and add us on Twitter!https://twitter.com/#!/HCGSHOW Facebook us! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Happy-...
Here's the description of his video praising the PCE Memories set:
Quote
I take a look at the PC Engine Memories Best Of Japan Boxset! Subscribe! and add us on Twitter!https://twitter.com/#!/HCGSHOW Facebook us! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Happy-...
http://pceworks.wordpress.com/categor...
So the videos remained and are up to 50,000 hits and he couldn't be bothered to soil them with a disclaimer or remove the link to buy them. And he seems like the nicer, more down to earth influential youtube personality covering these sets. I don't expect any others to do any different.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 03, 2015, 03:44:56 AM
Yup, the only way to *possibly* influence the YouTube folks is if someone like Joe used his status/respect/popularity to "push" the issue a little harder.
I AM NOT SAYING JOE MUST DO THIS.
All I am saying is that it would require someone like Joe to make a *concerted* effort...and I still think that a lot of folks, fully hearing the ethical issues, would still shrug it off.
So, even if Joe were to take up the cause, there is no guarantee that it would produce the desired effect.
At this point, the most ethical thing to do is sneak into Tobias's home and steal his chocolate. And his undershirts.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 03, 2015, 04:55:58 AM
So far Game Sack is the only channel I've heard of which actually acknowledged Tobias' history. But that's not going to discourage the kinds of collectards who are piecing together sets of CIB repros.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 05:34:28 AM
SamIAm, the best policy at this point is scorched earth. Just stop doing them. You and a few others can do a joint youtube video explaining why you will no longer be putting out translations, and see if Joe would be willing to host it so it gets more exposure.
It sucks, but not much at this point is going to slow down his sales. It's up to companies to protect their own IP, and if they cant be bothered to do that after being informed of whats going on, then what can you do? I don't think Tobias is sitting back making millions here, but maybe thousands, making enough that he is going to keep doing this, and nothing is going to be "hands off" to him. The current status of many older Japanese game companies is that they are in a weakened position.
What is worse is that many of them don't have divisions with legal departments located in Europe anyway, so Tobias is in a fairly good position to just keep doing what he is doing. He clearly feels entitled to do what he does, and I think some small part of him thinks, or wants to believe he is doing it for the scene, to justify what he is doing.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: deubeul on August 03, 2015, 05:54:30 AM
Did you know that Xanadu I would be massively easier to hack if the TED2 works as a RAM expansion?
Speaking of that, wouldn't it be possible to make translations working on real hardware but only with the Stupid Card 4.0?
>> I don't think it would be that easy for Tobias to retro-engineer it. >> Sales of the Stupid cards could be controlled by and for community members. >> every body owning the stupid card could burn CDRs, so no fancy pressed CDs for collectards.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on August 03, 2015, 06:02:03 AM
You could always leave a paper trail of how worthless Tobias is WITHIN the games, so people will slowly become aware.
We also have some other interesting ideas on how to stop Dickface McGee from doing this.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 06:16:49 AM
Would be funny, but Tobias would probably think it is neat 4th wall shit and leave it in, because he thinks he is Victor Ireland's second coming.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on August 03, 2015, 06:20:07 AM
I mean, does Tobias really even have the necessary brain-talents to figure out how to stop something as simple as a boot screen that says IF YOU GOT THIS FROM TOBIAS/PCEWORKS, YOU GOT f*ckED, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE.
or something to that effect.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on August 03, 2015, 06:24:54 AM
Also why do you censor the words bitch and shit, but make no attempt to censor the word f*cking. This makes you look like you fell off the AOL train and landed at ForumTown.
I also thought that was silly. Why even censor 'em at all? Jesus is not so easily fooled.
The rest of his bullshit is just that: bullshit. Prof. wanted to trade something he owned and didn't try to claim they're teh rarez, worth elebentytwentyhundreds. WHO GIVES A f*ck?
But by the looks of it, we can either watch our stuff get bootlegged, which sucks, or we can force things to work in emulators only, which also sucks. Or we can just not bother.
Or you can quit worrying so much about the select few that buy Tobias's shit. The majority of people are supportive of and thankful for the translation work, so why not focus on the positive? To be honest, you sound like the DRM software nazis that continually slap their honest paying customers in the face because of the actions of a select few.
I mean, does Tobias really even have the necessary brain-talents to figure out how to stop something as simple as a boot screen that says IF YOU GOT THIS FROM TOBIAS/PCEWORKS, YOU GOT f*ckED, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE.
or something to that effect.
Somebody figured out how to remove those shewties and make them stand alone games for him, so probably.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on August 03, 2015, 06:25:46 AM
You could always leave a paper trail of how worthless Tobias is WITHIN the games, so people will slowly become aware.
We also have some other interesting ideas on how to stop Dickface McGee from doing this.
Even better, create a mini game where you cut his freaking head of and make it a requirement in order to finish said game. :-) Or just place a disclaimer if you paid $$$ for this translation you got ripped off. Make it blinking red text and possibly insert it during the loading times. People will get the idea.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 06:26:03 AM
I mean, does Tobias really even have the necessary brain-talents to figure out how to stop something as simple as a boot screen that says IF YOU GOT THIS FROM TOBIAS/PCEWORKS, YOU GOT f*ckED, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE.
or something to that effect.
I dont think he does, but he may try to pay someone to do it. At this point he clearly has hired help of some sort to do his releases, so I don't think he would be opposed to hiring someone to remove those kind of disclaimers.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on August 03, 2015, 06:33:12 AM
I mean, does Tobias really even have the necessary brain-talents to figure out how to stop something as simple as a boot screen that says IF YOU GOT THIS FROM TOBIAS/PCEWORKS, YOU GOT f*ckED, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE.
or something to that effect.
I dont think he does, but he may try to pay someone to do it. At this point he clearly has hired help of some sort to do his releases, so I don't think he would be opposed to hiring someone to remove those kind of disclaimers.
Couldn't you corrupt the rom header so it would work only on emulators?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 06:46:05 AM
Or you can quit worrying so much about the select few that buy Tobias's shit. The majority of people are supportive of and thankful for the translation work, so why not focus on the positive?
Pretty much spot on. I'm sure Tobias is making good money, but I mean, the majority of it is clearly not coming from this forum, and its not like hundreds of thousands. Odds are good too he is making more money off the non-rpg content. His exact words to me when I asked about his future releases were:
Me: "Was kind of curious, since it looks like the past two releases you have done have been focused on the role playing stuff."
Tobias: "I'm with you on that and we'll be glad ourselves once we re-focus on the action and shooting titles.
Best Tobias"
I mean, you can worry about him making a few bucks off the translations you do and take up a scorched earth policy to stop him, or you can just move on as planned and rest assured the community here will still enjoy the work you did, and appreciate every bit of it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on August 03, 2015, 07:27:29 AM
I think the next PCE release from Aetherbyte will have a big "f*ck PCEWORKS" splash screen, of some variety.
"WINNERS DONT USE PCEWORKS", would be perfect.
We should make that a thing and vow to use it in all of our things ever from here on out, lol
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: TheOldMan on August 03, 2015, 07:36:07 AM
Find me that old arcade screen about copyrights. (You know the one, with the giant eagle in the middle). I'll load it from the ipl on our next project :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on August 03, 2015, 07:59:05 AM
Find me that old arcade screen about copyrights. (You know the one, with the giant eagle in the middle). I'll load it from the ipl on our next project :)
That's the one I am talking about basically.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SephirothTNH on August 03, 2015, 08:09:48 AM
But by the looks of it, we can either watch our stuff get bootlegged, which sucks, or we can force things to work in emulators only, which also sucks. Or we can just not bother.
Or you can quit worrying so much about the select few that buy Tobias's shit. The majority of people are supportive of and thankful for the translation work, so why not focus on the positive? To be honest, you sound like the DRM software nazis that continually slap their honest paying customers in the face because of the actions of a select few.
You dismiss things so easily, Necro.
Necro, please spend hundreds/thousands of hours working on something, a project you really care about, only to have it raped and pimped out before your very eyes.
It is hard not to become burnt out and frustrated.
So—please don't condescendingly dismiss genuine frustration from someone who is ACTIVELY HELPING US.
Didn't you just say we were a supportive community?
Well, f*ck, at least acknowledge the shitty situation SamIAm is in. He clearly has MIXED FEELINGS and the only way to ensure he doesn't become 100% sour is to actually be supportive.
I don't want DRM either, but I realize that it is better to be supportive and actually acknowledge another human beings feelings than to just be a douchebag and, essentially say:
"Your genuine frustration means nothing to me. Your tireless work for the benefit of all means nothing. Now, let's talk about how I, the selfish gamer, am pissed off. "
I mean, does Tobias really even have the necessary brain-talents to figure out how to stop something as simple as a boot screen that says IF YOU GOT THIS FROM TOBIAS/PCEWORKS, YOU GOT f*ckED, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE. or something to that.
A generic notice is best, because it will apply to all profiteers and eBay scum (past, present, future). I suggested this as a simple solution that goes back to (at least) DIY ethic from decades ago:
Necro, please spend hundreds/thousands of hours working on something, a project you really care about, only to have it raped and pimped out before your very eyes.
It is hard not to become burnt out and frustrated.
So—please don't condescendingly dismiss genuine frustration from someone who is ACTIVELY HELPING US.
Didn't you just say we were a supportive community?
Well, f*ck, at least acknowledge the shitty situation SamIAm is in. He clearly has MIXED FEELINGS and the only way to ensure he doesn't become 100% sour is to actually be supportive.
I don't want DRM either, but I realize that it is better to be supportive and actually acknowledge another human beings feelings than to just be a douchebag and, essentially say:
"Your genuine frustration means nothing to me. Your tireless work for the benefit of all means nothing. Now, let's talk about how I, the selfish gamer, am pissed off. "
Holy shit.
That's not even remotely close to what I was saying, so kindly get f*cked.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 08:48:43 AM
Necro, please spend hundreds/thousands of hours working on something, a project you really care about, only to have it raped and pimped out before your very eyes.
It is hard not to become burnt out and frustrated.
So—please don't condescendingly dismiss genuine frustration from someone who is ACTIVELY HELPING US.
Didn't you just say we were a supportive community?
I'm not taking what Necro said that way at all. It's basically him just putting out there that the majority of the PCE community shouldn't be punished for the actions of a few, those few not even being members here on this forum even for the most part.
It's getting to a point now where if the folks behind fan translations are going to let Tobias dictate what they do out of fear, then that is just more power put into his hands and taken away from us. Fan translators need to have faith in the PCE community, that as a majority we don't support what Tobias has done and wont be paying him for their hard work they intended to be freely shared and enjoyed.
I'm sure most of Tobias customers are youtube PCE/TG noobs, or collecttards from Digital Press and the like. Those types don't have anything to do with us, and we don't have anything to do with them. SamIAm, whatever you guys decide to do, I would understand and support that decision 100 percent, whether it is scorched earth, or you going forward with releases. In the end, you guys have to do what is right for you. I just don't think you should be letting Tobias scare you out of projects. Don't give him that kind of control over you. If you wanna do something, do it, is all I am saying.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on August 03, 2015, 08:49:30 AM
(http://abload.de/img/2632065-winners_dont_48uei.jpg) There you go gents.
Fix'd.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 09:01:03 AM
Whatever message would be put on the "winners" screen, it should probably include the key words like "PURCHASED FROM TOBIAS FUDOH REICH", "YOU LET HIM FACEf*ck YOU LONGTIME", and "PCEWORKS".
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: PunkicCyborg on August 03, 2015, 09:24:38 AM
There's lots of lulz on Instagram for the #pceworks tag https://instagram.com/explore/tags/pceworks/
It's very sad that I see people who post their new PCE collections consisting of a Duo-R, TED and PCE Works bootlegs and THAT'S IT. bih_retro_gaming is one of the few people who post pretty much primarily PCE stuff and he pimps the PCE Works shit all day. He's a member here BTW. He took the bait on one of the fake "Magical Chase Holy Grail" photos on ebay last month and thought they were real and was like "anyone have any info on when PCE Works will be selling these?" but deleted the post
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on August 03, 2015, 10:01:28 AM
That's not even remotely close to what I was saying, so kindly get f*cked.
You can claim that you did not intend to communicate a dismissive/condescending message, but your very words say otherwise.
Kindly don't dismiss genuine frustration so cavalierly, and kindly don't throw around a term like "DRM nazi" so cavalierly.
What is hilarious is that if someone treated you in the same manner, you would certainly have taken *some* offense to it.
You and I are actually ~100% agreement on the actual issues at hand (how to handle profiteering, DRM, etc), we just differ on whether or not to (1) *fully* acknowledge someone's legitimate concerns *and* (2) how to respectfully suggest that DRM is not a solution.
SamIAm has earned the right to vent his blarrrgghhhh.
The least we can do is to take an extra nanosecond when posting a response.
As for your final request: I am always fondling myself when reading this forum. Sometimes, I f*ck myself, too. I was thinking of you the entire time I composed this post. Then....SUBMIT.
Hugs and kisses, Necro :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on August 03, 2015, 10:42:19 AM
..... and kindly don't throw around a term like "DRM nazi" so cavalierly. What is hilarious is that if someone treated you in the same manner, you would certainly have taken *some* offense to it.
Yeah, that's real insulting. :roll:
Anyway, the DRM analogy is 100% fitting. A mocking splash screen, game breaking bug, or going emulation only WILL NOT stop Tobias and will only hurt (or at least annoy) the people that actually want to play the games, similar to all the onerous DRM crap that does nothing to stop piracy.
You and I are actually ~100% agreement on the actual issues at hand (how to handle profiteering, DRM, etc), we just differ on whether or not to (1) *fully* acknowledge someone's legitimate concerns.....
Yes, everyone should rant and rave about how horrible Tobias is in EVERY SINGLE POST, otherwise you're just some a$$hole ignoring Sam's pain.
*and* (2) how to respectfully suggest that DRM is not a solution.
Except some form of DRM is exactly what you advocated in the past. Try to keep your shit straight.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MrBroadway on August 03, 2015, 10:46:32 AM
I think he just means for you to lay out a case to SamIAm for why DRM is not OK, not that esteban thinks it's not. I think there's a bit of a conundrum if SamIAm doesn't want to make discs himself. Not everyone plays on emulators.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on August 03, 2015, 11:03:49 AM
I think he just means for you to lay out a case to SamIAm for why DRM is not OK, not that esteban thinks it's not.
I don't know, it's pretty hard to misinterpret 'you and I are in 100% agreement on DRM'.
And I did explain earlier why I think any DRM attempts would be a wasted effort: they'll only end in more frustration and disappointment when they're ignored or circumvented, hastening the day that Sam says f*ck it and gives up. I guess that's what esty wants.
I think there's a bit of a conundrum if SamIAm doesn't want to make discs himself. Not everyone plays on emulators.
Making your own booties and selling 'em for cheap would be my preferred way of removing Tobias's incentive to make his own overpriced crap, but I can honor Sam's wishes to not go that route.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 03, 2015, 11:51:12 AM
Necro: I understand that you must always have the last word. Always.
I stand by my claims: (1) Any good will you intended (think of the loyal PCE community!) was shown to be half-hearted—at best—with your smarmy condescension.
(2) If there was a way to sabotage Tobias, I would love it. I think it would be hilarious. However, I have my doubts that this can be achieved by *any* means. I feel that even mentioning him or PCEWORKS should be avoided, lest it advertise his wares. So...
(3) I thought that we had common ground, that we prefer not to have DRM (and I thought I was very clear that I thought you could make the case more *respectfully*). I also thought that you agreed to the general concept of educating folks with a disclaimer ("This is available for free from ____.") and a URL to a page explaining the issues in more detail. Am I correct?
(4) Historically, you have taken offense at *minor* to *insignificant* infractions, Necro...so I find it even more hilarious that you are so defensive that I am, essentially, saying you were "rude" to SamIAm. You were rude. Own it.
(5) Finally, you win. You don't even have to respond to this post. I was wrong. You were being very supportive in your post. You were very positive. You were not rude.
(6) I admit that I don't really have a #6, I just needed a little bit more time to cum. But, ALAS, I finally accomplished my mission. Jesus, when I was younger, it didn't take me this long to jerk-off while posting on the forum.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 03, 2015, 12:07:42 PM
(7) I was only thinking about one person, of course :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on August 03, 2015, 12:16:02 PM
Guys, guys, it's fine. (Esteban, you have work to do!)
I don't have time to write up a good reply.
Illegal bootlegs are dangerous. I might like to get back into professional translation someday. The last thing I need is for potential clients to be able to draw a link between me and a counterfeiting operation.
Profiteering without compensating the original creators (I mean the Japanese devs) is morally repugnant. I think games are art, and I think it's for the greater good if I make translation patches to share that which cannot otherwise be shared. This is how I rationalize making patches even without the permission of the original devs. Dare I say, most original devs would probably not find that such a bad thing. However, I also think they that probably would abhor repro profiteering.
I'm not going to lie, seeing someone make money off of something I spent so much time making would burn a little, too. But I don't want to get involved in repro making myself for the above two reasons.
-------
It's a matter of either learning to live with those risks, getting around them with emulator-only hacks, or moving on to something like Playstation and Saturn games which don't have any of this.
Right now, I'm thinking that if the TED2 (or Stupid Card 4.0) works as a memory expansion, it should be a requirement for all future translation patches. That would at least cut the user base down.
Gotta go.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 03, 2015, 12:16:56 PM
I must admit that it is fun getting into the drama. Especially with Necro, because I don't remember arguing with him (we must have at some point?, but it was fleeting, I am sure).
It is fun, though, every now and then :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Sparky on August 03, 2015, 12:58:37 PM
And please don't reply with some lame ass excuse why you have no money or about your job or any other lame ass excuse you can think of (cancer, family issues, hemorrhoids, peg leg, kid issues etc. Your obviously delusional thinking anybody would be jealous of a broke piece of sh!t with no life and only forum rep to brag about.
I like how you think family issues and cancer are lame ass excuses for having financial issues.
You can argue all day long but do not hit below the belt cjames, that cancer comment, are you kidding me? my god I have had a run in with it, Ya your up set but think before you reply. Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: VenomMacbeth on August 03, 2015, 01:03:28 PM
I must admit that it is fun getting into the drama. Especially with Necro, because I don't remember arguing with him (we must have at some point?, but it was fleeting, I am sure).
It is fun, though, every now and then :)
I have to agree, I enjoy the opportunities when they arise. I'm also not an OG member, so I feel none of my posts really carry much weight...which makes partaking of the drama ultimately safer. ^-^
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on August 03, 2015, 01:23:14 PM
You have cancer? Hah! What a lame excuse to be in debt.
:roll:
Jesus christ some people... [-X
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 01:39:57 PM
I think ole Cjameslv is taking a step back for a min or two. I don't think he realized what he said would cause him to take any flak from others. At any rate though, given everything he has said and done, I wont be having any second thoughts about un-blacklisting him from anything raffle or sale wise. The guy has a serious ego, seems to think he is above it all, and entitled to do what he wants and tell others what to do here, and doesn't handle confrontation well when he is called out on it.
In the end though, like I said, guy has entered two pages of raffles and has been entering them since basically right after he joined here. Where the f*ck are his own raffles to compensate?? If he doesn't want to do any, cool. But he needs to take a break from entering so many others then, and he def needs to stfu and stay out of others sale or trade threads unless he is an interested party to whatever is being offered. He has no foot to stand on, and no right to tell other people what to do with their stuff.
As for Venom, man I don't get what you are saying, or rather why you are saying that. Your activity and loyalty to the forum give you merit around here, and you have a fairly positive attitude. I don't get why you would think you, or your opinion, were not valued here.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 02:00:10 PM
To be fair, if your friend had stfu and minded his own business, he wouldn't even be in this mess to begin with. He dug that hole on his own. No one dug it for him. People sling shit at me, I sling twice as much back if they have it coming, and he really did have it coming.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: VenomMacbeth on August 03, 2015, 02:34:31 PM
As for Venom, man I don't get what you are saying, or rather why you are saying that. Your activity and loyalty to the forum give you merit around here, and you have a fairly positive attitude. I don't get why you would think you, or your opinion, were not valued here.
I dunno lol, I guess I feel I'm overly-active in the sales sections & raffles, and other than that I don't really post much other than my opinions about games...although I do suppose the latter is why most of us are here. Didn't mean to imply anything ^-^
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on August 03, 2015, 03:29:53 PM
If I were a person with my own web hosting and page design skills, one thing I might do to help this situation is make up a simple page that explains Tobias's dishonesty very thoroughly, with images and statements from people like Tom and Nightwolve. Present an easy narrative for people to follow that opens and closes with clear statements about why it's detrimental to the community that people buy his stuff.
It would be a very useful link to spread around.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on August 03, 2015, 04:10:44 PM
I'll be happy to take whatever you come up with and also post it on my site, if you like.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: HercTNT on August 03, 2015, 04:57:54 PM
When anyone resorts to the lowest of personal attacks, especially involving someones family, it speaks more to the quality of that person than the point they think they are trying to make. People who do this are used to getting their way and pushing others around. Its not "getting a little carried away", it's who they really are. Cjames bit off more than he could chew and is paying the price. Professor is a good friend and I appreciate the support you all have given on this matter. Obviously he does not need my cheerleading, but in my opinion Cjames was trying to take advantage of the tobias situation to benefit himself and was more than willing to step on another man and his family to do so. Knowing the Professor as I do I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 03, 2015, 05:44:55 PM
Everyone has their bad moments, I know I have, and things can get personal depending on the circumstance or how long the feud has been going on. The thing with James however, well, nothing said prior between him and I gave any justification to attack ones family status. He was a bit too quick to resort to that, especially considering there is very little of any history even involved between us.
It was, all things considered, a rather clean argument compared to some that have happened here, but James couldn't handle it I guess and wanted to make it personal. Desperate people do desperate things, and he didn't have much to work with on his side of the argument. Maybe James is just a very emotional person perhaps? Maybe its that time of the month for him? Maybe his JO crystal has burned out. Don't know, don't really care. Still waiting for the awesome cjameslv raffle 3.0 to happen though. Anyway, I gotta hit bed. Guess I will check back on this thread later, see if something new has happened. Till then...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MotherGunner on August 03, 2015, 05:50:40 PM
As a father of three and someone who calls Mike a friend, bringing his kids into it was totally unacceptable.
He is the epitome of manning up and dealing with the hand dealt.
Life is too short for this...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on August 03, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
Personally, I feel if Tobias steals my work, I'll be mad, but I'll keep doing my music. I've been working on a complimentary redbook soundtrack for Tom's Mega Man for a year & a half. I enjoy doing it(for the most part, as each song has its own challenges), so, whether Tobias rips it or not, ultimately, it's what I want to do regardless. I'm sure he'll come up with some sort of explanation for a second run of Mega Man. "SUPER DUPER updated beta of the PC Engine Mega Man, I purchased it from a former Capcom employee!" Then, when Fragmare finishes the gfx, he'll do a 3rd run!
To be sure, I'm not telling Sam what to do, just giving my own perspective. I enjoy doing this kind of stuff for the Turbob, whether my work gets ripped off or not. I suppose, if anything, I try to keep my music limited to a few, until the entire thing is done. I might share the soundtrack on youtube or something as well just for kicks. However, I like the sound of the Stupid Card limiting Tobias, so maybe Tom would consider recoding it with that in mind? The only bummer, is that those not a part of the community probably would never have access to the Stupid Card. Like Mega Ran/Random. I've told him about the soundtrack(as well as my contemplating doing a PCE Jackal soundtrack), & he's excited, but, I know he's an NES guy. Don't know if he's played the Turbo much. Still, I think I'd rather it be limited for Tobias sake.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MrBroadway on August 03, 2015, 06:57:02 PM
If your music is 100% your own, I will donate money to help cover lawyer fees to sue the f*ck out of him. I know a bit of German, too. Not that I think that'd help, but...still...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 04, 2015, 12:48:09 AM
If your music is 100% your own, I will donate money to help cover lawyer fees to sue the f*ck out of him. I know a bit of German, too. Not that I think that'd help, but...still...
Paranoia's songs are based upon known MegaMan tunes...which is what makes them awesome :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: cjameslv on August 04, 2015, 03:00:50 AM
Cjames did seem to take it a bit far. My guess is that it was booze fueled or intentionally hyperbolic. To be fair, prof prof takes things pretty far, too.
In closing, my popcorn grows cold. Back to flamewars and tobias bashing, please.
Meh some dvx was involved on my last one but glad to see this thread back on track!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: MrBroadway on August 04, 2015, 07:48:01 AM
Related FEKA: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?16539-Repro-Selling-on-Sega-16&p=723290&viewfull=1#post723290
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 04, 2015, 08:22:21 AM
I don't have any major issue with random repros being tossed around FS/FT threads as long as it is being done in a reasonable price range. Acting like you're Victor Ireland's second coming though, attempting to use the forum to prop your business up, and trying to sell the stuff off at $50-80 per game though just doesn't fly with me.
I don't care if the game is on cart or pressed cd, paying that much for a repro is retarded, and asking that much for one is criminal unless you have some amazing package set up with tons of extras, and even then just depends. A repro should never ever exceed the price of a legit copy, no matter what is included as an extra. It's that kind of shit that has made the situation as bad as it is, people making the stuff, throwing in small extras, and asking such ridiculous prices.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gredler on August 04, 2015, 09:23:19 AM
Guys, guys, it's fine. (Esteban, you have work to do!)
I don't have time to write up a good reply.
Illegal bootlegs are dangerous. I might like to get back into professional translation someday. The last thing I need is for potential clients to be able to draw a link between me and a counterfeiting operation.
Profiteering without compensating the original creators (I mean the Japanese devs) is morally repugnant. I think games are art, and I think it's for the greater good if I make translation patches to share that which cannot otherwise be shared. This is how I rationalize making patches even without the permission of the original devs. Dare I say, most original devs would probably not find that such a bad thing. However, I also think they that probably would abhor repro profiteering.
I'm not going to lie, seeing someone make money off of something I spent so much time making would burn a little, too. But I don't want to get involved in repro making myself for the above two reasons.
-------
It's a matter of either learning to live with those risks, getting around them with emulator-only hacks, or moving on to something like Playstation and Saturn games which don't have any of this.
Right now, I'm thinking that if the TED2 (or Stupid Card 4.0) works as a memory expansion, it should be a requirement for all future translation patches. That would at least cut the user base down.
Gotta go.
I have not read beyond this post. This has been a lot to read and I'm very busy starting a new job and having family visit, but I just wanted to bump this as I feel like it exposes the elphant in the room the best. Caught up :)
The original devs and publisher are not seeing a penny from these repros, which is wrong. The translations are done as personal projects, not for commercial purposes. The fact anyone is selling these repros in this manner is repulsive, and goes against a lot that I believe in. I have worked on highly pirated projects before, and it never bothered me because I know that it means people are playing it. I don't, however, approve of someone selling those pirated copies for profit. The translators are in the same boat as the Japanese devs, profits being made both someone not involved in the project. The translators contributions to the final product were for personal reasons - not for profit. This whole subject sickens me, and I feel for devs dearly and it really surprises me that this is so highly profiled and so lightly addressed by the IP holders.
Edit: I should say, I also do not think repros are a horrible thing, especially cart based reproductions. I think that the enjoyable mechanics of playing a cartridge game warrants having hard to find or never ported games on actual cart. Aside from paying the person for their time to craft the cart and the materials necessary to make it, I agree that the cost of repros should reflect the effort and cost to make the cart not the actual game on the cart. I could see him charging a little for the materials and time to create these special editions, but their pricing obviously puts him in a position to make hand over fist profit on a product that can easily be reproduces by a laymen.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on August 04, 2015, 12:44:02 PM
So far Game Sack is the only channel I've heard of which actually acknowledged Tobias' history. But that's not going to discourage the kinds of collectards who are piecing together sets of CIB repros.
Game Sack is also off the list of promo items. The last set that came out... the one with Might and Magic 3 or whatever... I know Happy Console Gamer automatically got a set and My Life in Gaming automatically got a set. We didn't get a set. I thought that was funny. He must have seen our video.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 04, 2015, 01:28:43 PM
So far Game Sack is the only channel I've heard of which actually acknowledged Tobias' history. But that's not going to discourage the kinds of collectards who are piecing together sets of CIB repros.
Game Sack is also off the list of promo items. The last set that came out... the one with Might and Magic 3 or whatever... I know Happy Console Gamer automatically got a set and My Life in Gaming automatically got a set. We didn't get a set. I thought that was funny. He must have seen our video.
And no f*cks were given by either of you @ Gamesack I'm sure, but in Tobias's mind he really punished you hardcore. Seriously though, if you do want a set, just follow my easy 7 step program for success:
1. Make fake email and new alias. 2. Contact Tobias and tell him you heard he does really awesome repros. 3. Tell Tobias about a new convention coming up and show him a link to a actual convention, and offer him a chance to promo his items at your exclusive Pc-Engine booth. 4. Tell him you will be showing Dino Force at said booth. 5. Provide an alternate mailing address so he knows it's not Game Sack. 6. ??? 7. PROFIT!!!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on August 11, 2015, 06:45:08 PM
Probably doesn't help much some of the Facebook folk are bragging about buying his crap. Real cute guys.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Tatsujin on August 11, 2015, 09:55:52 PM
So far Game Sack is the only channel I've heard of which actually acknowledged Tobias' history. But that's not going to discourage the kinds of collectards who are piecing together sets of CIB repros.
Game Sack is also off the list of promo items. The last set that came out... the one with Might and Magic 3 or whatever... I know Happy Console Gamer automatically got a set and My Life in Gaming automatically got a set. We didn't get a set. I thought that was funny. He must have seen our video.
HAHAHA. that must had hurt him really hard.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 11, 2015, 10:44:26 PM
So far Game Sack is the only channel I've heard of which actually acknowledged Tobias' history. But that's not going to discourage the kinds of collectards who are piecing together sets of CIB repros.
Game Sack is also off the list of promo items. The last set that came out... the one with Might and Magic 3 or whatever... I know Happy Console Gamer automatically got a set and My Life in Gaming automatically got a set. We didn't get a set. I thought that was funny. He must have seen our video.
HAHAHA. that must had hurt him really hard.
TATS! :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Tatsujin on August 11, 2015, 11:15:52 PM
So far Game Sack is the only channel I've heard of which actually acknowledged Tobias' history. But that's not going to discourage the kinds of collectards who are piecing together sets of CIB repros.
Game Sack is also off the list of promo items. The last set that came out... the one with Might and Magic 3 or whatever... I know Happy Console Gamer automatically got a set and My Life in Gaming automatically got a set. We didn't get a set. I thought that was funny. He must have seen our video.
HAHAHA. that must had hurt him really hard.
TATS! :)
ESTY! where have you been? :D
NO!
where have I been? :p
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Opethian on August 12, 2015, 02:19:37 AM
TATS! see what happens when you stray form the herd...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on August 27, 2015, 06:24:10 AM
So a post of mine back in May just got responded to by a Tobias-defending shill today. That was the result of when this all got started and we were informing a few of the Youtube video channel guys who Tobias was.
If you couldn't persuade them on just the issue of taking the fan translation work, you at least had Tobias' past to inform them of, that is, the fact that he is a lying, criminal fraudster who started his bootleg operation with Sapphire CDs and tricked the public into believing that they were real by using a forged HudsonSoft document to bolster his claims...
So Jimmy did come here and indicate he wouldn't promote Tobias bootlegs in the future, but yeah, one of my posts to Jimmy just got responded to by this guy.
It's the usual, "STFU, or make your own repros. Don't like it, don't criticize it! I had my work repro'ed, I don't care, therefore NOBODY ELSE SHOULD CARE TOO! FEEL AS I SAY, BOY!" I believe toymachine uttered the same attitude earlier in this thread or I think it was another one, but basically it's a way to shut down criticism, much like how resellers are defended, "Don't like the price, just don't buy it, The End AKA STFU!"
Anyway, thought I'd add this clown to the thread. I'm suspicious of his claims, I almost wanna look up his name to see if he actually did mod work that was repro'd, or was he just a troll making the false claim just for the sake of argument to persuade me to "feel" the same way when it comes to hundreds or thousands of my f--king work hours...
+Kyle Pittman Here's my problem with that, and there are many.
1) I don't need reminders that I have no legal rights or on legality here and even if I had a translation license, it's not like it would be respected all that much by you and others that think like this... Nothing must stand in the way of your pretty piece of "collectible" plastic, after all! You're simply exploiting technical facts and making false equivalency comparisons (no legal ownership of the game, no licensing, pirating=fan translating, etc.) to excuse his disgusting moral behavior.
If it's the product of my work hours, if it had something to do with me, and he violated my [moral] terms-of-use (which were in the ReadMe), I CAN and WILL say something about it! The world is not gonna work according to Kyle where only positive or supportive comments are allowed because he wants his pretty piece of plastic... Sorry!
2) Just as you shared your opinion in defense of a known lying, criminal, bootlegging eBay fraudster, I too will share/advance my opinion on his actions at a moral or ethical level, most especially if it had something to do with me... I expand on the details of this in point (5).
3) Your demands for conformity are useless, unconvincing and self-serving obviously. Just because you did fan hacks that got repro'ed without your permission and YOU don't care, doesn't mean I shouldn't care also and never criticize it which is what you're demanding! How silly! In other words, just because YOU feel that way, doesn't mean I and everybody else should *feel* that way! "HEY MAN, I don't care, therefore YOU shouldn't care either!!! RAWWWRRR!!! Feel as I say!!!!" It's not your work hours, brah! You don't have a say on how I am gonna feel about it, positive or negative! And if I only had positive things to say, you'd welcome it!!
4) You say, if you don't like it, do it yourself or never release the work to the Internet. You didn't finish your sentence though, what you're really saying in the end is STFU! That's almost the same technique greedy resellers use to shut down negative comments or criticism: Don't like the price, don't buy it, otherwise STFU! Don't like your work being repro'd, don't release it, STFU, OR, make your own repro! Blah blah blah!
No, I'll choose another option which is protest: I will inform the public that he's a lying, criminal sneak cheat that snuck around, put my work hours on his pressed CD releases so he could make them more valuable, and that he contacted nobody so that he could pocket every last penny for himself 100%!!! People SHOULD know who they're doing business with despite defenders like yourself that would try to protect, defend, obfuscate, basically tell parties whose work he took to, "STFU, look the other way, too bad, it's the Internet, get over it! It's GONNA happen, so don't bother criticizing it, ever!"
5) Seriously, before you get in the tank to defend somebody, you might want to get your facts straight. Tobias/PCEWorks perpetrated fraud against the public and cost people hundreds of dollars when he started his repro/bootleg operations... He did this by 2 ways: a) He pressed CD-ROMs of a game called Sapphire designed to look as close to the original as possible and claimed they were authentic, b) He forged a document purported to be by Hudson Soft to bolster his claims they were real, the notion that they were some last official batch that was made, but wasn't released because of slight quality issues (his CD pressing company/plant screwed them up in reality).
Having created bootlegs and selling them on eBay, he evaded anti-counterfeit policies for a time and hundreds of people bought his copies under the belief that they were real! Just recently, somebody paid $600 or so for a sealed copy of Sapphire that he thought was real, only to open it and find out it was one of Tobias'/PCEWorks fakes! Both sellers and buyers were tricked and honest buyers had to sell them at a loss when realizing what had happened by choosing to tell the truth!
So, Tobias/PCEWorks made out like a bandit, hundreds of people got screwed, both sellers/stores and buyers alike, and Tobias got away with it, only to come back stronger than ever, continue bootlegging other games, minus the lying since he was eventually caught! Many people are still angry and wanna see him fall!
This man should've had a something of a class action lawsuit brought against him for fraud by all his victims: These were honest people doing business on eBay looking to a buy a real copy of Sapphire, but were defrauded by him... Now we see him promoted on Youtube channels like it was all hunky dory as if it never happened... That is a problem and to the extent I can speak and remind people of his past doings, I can and shall, so DEAL WITH IT!
6) Instead of defending him and other repro makers, gosh golly, I dunno, maybe levying criticism that sneaking around and taking other people's work and using it against their terms isn't the best way to do things, maybe telling people like Tobias that contacting the parties involved is the better route to go, instead of telling the fan groups to just shut up, let the people have their pretty plastic at his greedy premium pricing structure when he escaped licensing fees from NEC, the game publisher, as well as leaving the fan group out of any % cut he's making from his profiteering... What a novel idea, to actually criticize him, the bootlegger, instead of the fan group!
7) I hate to break it to you, but some fan translators are boycotting in protest and ceasing to release work because of bootleggers like Tobias, so the community then pays a price because of him, less free fan translations, but yeah, at least you got your pretty piece of plastic, right ?? Yaaaaay!!!!!
Now, for the record, I'm not one of those fan credo anti-profit type ideologues. Some are well meaning in that mindset, but there are the fanatical types and it is what it is. Some of it could be bluffing threats, some serious, but it is a position a % are taking!
I myself would love to do an Ys I-IV set, if I could get consent with my team, but it's a hard thing to do when you try to do it the right way, or at the very least, the better way... If everyone in your team agreed to press a CD from the very beginning, that's the best point to have talked business. Much harder later on or if you never considered the idea to being with.
Conclusion: You can get in the tank for a lying, criminal, sneak cheat fraudster like Tobias/PCEWorks, but don't expect me to respect your opinion or you... You have revealed your character as someone who supports/defends these guys sneaking around and taking other people's work without any kind of inclusion, contact, permission, etc. And that's the same thing that happened to me with my former criminal translators (Jeff Nussbaum and Thomas Lipschultz) and a company called +XSEED Games! People like that are disgusting and so are those who get in the tank for them as far as I'm concerned!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 27, 2015, 07:00:39 AM
If Kyle isn't just a troll, I'd point out that Tobias has marketed the translated games as the work of the PCEWorks "team of super fans". He isn't just profiting off of various companies' games and various translation teams' work, he's also taking credit for the translations and (surprise!), once again purposefully being very misleading with the marketing of his "products".
Isn't taking credit for the work of others at least frowned upon within the translation/hacking community?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on August 27, 2015, 07:32:32 AM
If Kyle isn't just a troll, I'd point out that Tobias has marketed the translated games as the work of the PCEWorks "team of super fans". He isn't just profiting off of various companies' games and various translation teams' work, he's also taking credit for the translations and (surprise!), once again purposefully being very misleading with the marketing of his "products".
Hahaha ... if you're a fan-translator doing a translation "For The Love Of It" ... doesn't that automatically make you a part of PCEWorks "team"? :-k
Tobias says "For The Love Of It" right on their front page! :wink:
------------------------
Now ... just for the sake of argument. Let's consider the possibility that I take a look at helping out on one (or maybe two) PCE fan translations that people would love to see get finished.
I don't have any desire to see Tobias just turn everyone else's hard work into pretty, but expensive, "collectors" sets.
Is there anything that can seriously be done to avoid that?
A translation could easily be made to only work with a TED2 (or CD Stupid Card) ... but would that really change anything? :-k
Tobias seems to have gotten smart enough to just sell the original game in his boxed-sets, and then give away a matched looking "translated" CD to go in the same case.
WTF can I do to discourage that ... except to just not help with any PCE translations in the first-place? :roll:
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on August 27, 2015, 07:41:21 AM
You guys seriously need to grow some balls. Someone needs to just go to Tobias' house and beat him with a rubber hose. Or the old "phone book & baseball bat" routine.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on August 27, 2015, 07:56:47 AM
Tobias seems to have gotten smart enough to just sell the original game in his boxed-sets, and then give away a matched looking "translated" CD to go in the same case.
Yeah, you noticed his altered strategy - that's the beauty of how he can get away with it now, make a beautiful boxed set like he did with Dracula X which has a "special" 2nd empty CD spot and give out the fully patched version free (keep that open to everyone), and you still get sales on the boxed set while nobody can say he's directly profiting on the patched version per sale, etc. He neutralized that aspect.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: munchiaz on August 27, 2015, 08:44:41 AM
Tobias seems to have gotten smart enough to just sell the original game in his boxed-sets, and then give away a matched looking "translated" CD to go in the same case.
Yeah, you noticed his altered strategy - that's the beauty of how he can get away with it now, make a beautiful boxed set like he did with Dracula X which has a "special" 2nd empty CD spot and give out the fully patched version free (keep that open to everyone), and you still get sales on the boxed set while nobody can say he's directly profiting on the patched version per sale, etc. He neutralized that aspect.
Such a POS man. I make sure to let it be known whenever i see people post his stuff.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 27, 2015, 09:03:05 AM
You guys seriously need to grow some balls. Someone needs to just go to Tobias' house and beat him with a rubber hose. Or the old "phone book & baseball bat" routine.
I will ring bell, invite myself in and help myself to...
1) his computer (Dell laptop) 2) Sailor Moon lunchbox (aluminum) 3) 3 cases of Dracula-X energy drink 4) Full House (complete series on VHS)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ultrageranium on August 27, 2015, 09:15:35 AM
Now ... just for the sake of argument. Let's consider the possibility that I take a look at helping out on one (or maybe two) PCE fan translations that people would love to see get finished.
I don't have any desire to see Tobias just turn everyone else's hard work into pretty, but expensive, "collectors" sets.
Is there anything that can seriously be done to avoid that?
Not directly related but maybe helpful to the discussion:
Within free culture, that is to say the community of people who distribute their work under a free culture license (GPL for software, CC-BY-SA for media, etc, to simplify a bit), the question of commercial exploitation is even more problematic because there is unlike with fan translations, no grey zone at all. You use a license that provide unilateral permissions to anyone to do whatever they want with your work, as long as they follow the terms of the license. It means that the question of how to avoid being ripped off comes up fairly often. For instance if I release a music under CC-BY-SA and make it a free or paying download, whoever has it can resell it and not give me anything, as long as what is being sold still under the CC-BY-SA. Shit will happen and shit happens fairly often with such licensing. Recently Flickr started to sell printed version of the photos made by the users of the service: those who had chosen for a normal copyright protection when uploading would receive a fee (traditional commercial licensing of their intellectual property) but those who had chosen a free culture license like the CC-BY-SA when they uploaded their photo would not receive anything at all. Long story short, even though Flickr did not do anything illegal, it felt like a massive abuse given the pool of free culture licensed photos they have collected for years and could use to make an extra profit, a couple of days later, they stopped doing that because they felt public pressure.
However, similar situations happen all the time with such licensing, and with little consequences as it is done in a much smaller scale. Indeed, the last thing that Yahoo wants is to be perceived as some evil corporations ripping off the work of their users, but that's not the case when the abuse is done by smaller groups or commercial entities. So generally the ethos of free culture is to accept that no matter what you do and no matter how you protect yourself, you will get ripped off by someone, at some point. It is not a question if it can happen, but more when it will happen, and the reason why free culture licensing is chosen, so that for all the others with no unethical intentions, nothing will get in the way of both accessing, using and modifying the shared work.
Of course, this does not solve the problem of tracking ethics across the pool of all the people that might do something with your work. This is why an interesting experiment was done by Nina Paley, who when she released her free culture licensed animation "Sita sings the blues", and seeing the growing success of it, knew that even though she would get a lot of screenings in indie cinemas and art houses, she would not get anything at all in return, and as everyone knows here, donations/patron systems are rarely helping unless you are already a celebrity. So she decided to develop a program in which places who would give her a bit of money for showing her work would be allowed to use some sort of certification, or sponsoring label, like gold, silver and bronze. ON her website she would list only the screening where sponsoring existed, and via her project, the audience would be able to know, in a more transparent way if the ticket they would buy or had bought were only cashed by the venue or if some bit were sent in the direction of the animator.
All that to say, even if fan translations are in a grey area of intellectual property, there is some common struggle to be found here I think. Maybe a similar experiment could be done here.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Koop on August 27, 2015, 09:19:51 AM
Tobias seems to have gotten smart enough to just sell the original game in his boxed-sets, and then give away a matched looking "translated" CD to go in the same case.
Yeah, you noticed his altered strategy - that's the beauty of how he can get away with it now, make a beautiful boxed set like he did with Dracula X which has a "special" 2nd empty CD spot and give out the fully patched version free (keep that open to everyone), and you still get sales on the boxed set while nobody can say he's directly profiting on the patched version per sale, etc. He neutralized that aspect.
I assume the price of his boxset is still way more than the game itself sells for though?
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 27, 2015, 09:40:24 AM
Now ... just for the sake of argument. Let's consider the possibility that I take a look at helping out on one (or maybe two) PCE fan translations that people would love to see get finished.
I don't have any desire to see Tobias just turn everyone else's hard work into pretty, but expensive, "collectors" sets.
Is there anything that can seriously be done to avoid that?
Not directly related but maybe helpful to the discussion:
Within free culture, that is to say the community of people who distribute their work under a free culture license (GPL for software, CC-BY-SA for media, etc, to simplify a bit), the question of commercial exploitation is even more problematic because there is unlike with fan translations, no grey zone at all. You use a license that provide unilateral permissions to anyone to do whatever they want with your work, as long as they follow the terms of the license. It means that the question of how to avoid being ripped off comes up fairly often. For instance if I release a music under CC-BY-SA and make it a free or paying download, whoever has it can resell it and not give me anything, as long as what is being sold still under the CC-BY-SA. Shit will happen and shit happens fairly often with such licensing. Recently Flickr started to sell printed version of the photos made by the users of the service: those who had chosen for a normal copyright protection when uploading would receive a fee (traditional commercial licensing of their intellectual property) but those who had chosen a free culture license like the CC-BY-SA when they uploaded their photo would not receive anything at all. Long story short, even though Flickr did not do anything illegal, it felt like a massive abuse given the pool of free culture licensed photos they have collected for years and could use to make an extra profit, a couple of days later, they stopped doing that because they felt public pressure.
However, similar situations happen all the time with such licensing, and with little consequences as it is done in a much smaller scale. Indeed, the last thing that Yahoo wants is to be perceived as some evil corporations ripping off the work of their users, but that's not the case when the abuse is done by smaller groups or commercial entities. So generally the ethos of free culture is to accept that no matter what you do and no matter how you protect yourself, you will get ripped off by someone, at some point. It is not a question if it can happen, but more when it will happen, and the reason why free culture licensing is chosen, so that for all the others with no unethical intentions, nothing will get in the way of both accessing, using and modifying the shared work.
Of course, this does not solve the problem of tracking ethics across the pool of all the people that might do something with your work. This is why an interesting experiment was done by Nina Paley, who when she released her free culture licensed animation "Sita sings the blues", and seeing the growing success of it, knew that even though she would get a lot of screenings in indie cinemas and art houses, she would not get anything at all in return, and as everyone knows here, donations/patron systems are rarely helping unless you are already a celebrity. So she decided to develop a program in which places who would give her a bit of money for showing her work would be allowed to use some sort of certification, or sponsoring label, like gold, silver and bronze. ON her website she would list only the screening where sponsoring existed, and via her project, the audience would be able to know, in a more transparent way if the ticket they would buy or had bought were only cashed by the venue or if some bit were sent in the direction of the animator.
All that to say, even if fan translations are in a grey area of intellectual property, there is some common struggle to be found here I think. Maybe a similar experiment could be done here.
Interesting! I did not know about Nona Paley.
TANGENT: Well, it wouldn't solve our fan translation issue, but for most folks who create stuff...
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
...Allows folks to build and transform your stuff, but not for commercial profit, so, slimy websites with ads that just scrape content from others are technically/ethically wrong.
Not that it is easy to enforce this sort of thing. My friend is a photographer and he doesn't have the manpower to enforce everyone who takes his photos—he has to go after large orgs/companies that take his work.bod course, he doesn't offer his stuff under by-nc-sa
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Jibbajaba on August 27, 2015, 11:38:06 AM
At this point, I am more interested in this energy drink than I am anything else. What is it? Where did he get it? Was he able to somehow buy blank cans of something and have something new printed on them? Is there some kind of custom sleeve over the original can?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on August 27, 2015, 11:41:41 AM
At this point, I am more interested in this energy drink than I am anything else. What is it? Where did he get it? Was he able to somehow buy blank cans of something and have something new printed on them? Is there some kind of custom sleeve over the original can?
Like elmer was saying, he is a smart SOB. That really was a great idea to "sweeten" the deal.
I wondered about those (if HE had them made), but Mike says they were preexisting and the guy just got a hold of some.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 27, 2015, 12:54:56 PM
At this point, I am more interested in this energy drink than I am anything else. What is it? Where did he get it? Was he able to somehow buy blank cans of something and have something new printed on them? Is there some kind of custom sleeve over the original can?
A lot of products are available as "white labels" and, yes, you slap whatever you want on them.
I didn't think energy drinks were popular enough to warrant this, but, clearly, they must be popular enough.
:)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on August 27, 2015, 01:25:16 PM
Well, it wouldn't solve our fan translation issue, but for most folks who create stuff...
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
As I said in the Zeroigar thread ... I don't have a lot of faith in that Creative Commons license.
It looks like it was written by lawyers, for-the-benefit-of lawyers.
I've read enough contracts and licenses, and paid for enough "professsional" advice (which usually totally missed the really significant loopholes), to be very wary of a license that claims to protect the author from someone else's "intent" to make a profit.
Proving "intent" is something that would require an expensive argument in court. ](*,)
At this point I actually have a grudging respect and admiration for Tobias, he's a very, very good parasite.
He knows just how to attract his customers, and he learns from his mistakes.
I don't think that there's much that we can do to make him go away, he's found a nice warm host to feed off, and it's so docile that he's unlikely to do anything egregious enough to stir it into action.
At this point, I'm more curious if people think that making a translation dependent upon a 3rd-party card like the TED2 would actually deter his customers from buying a pretty box-set?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on August 27, 2015, 02:03:24 PM
Why the f*ck would anyone think that a can of energy drink with blank label straight from the movie Repo Man, with Dracula X art printed over it, would somehow justify paying hundreds for a bootleg of a 1990's video game.
Why has god abandoned us.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 27, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
Why the f*ck would anyone think that a can of energy drink with blank label straight from the movie Repo Man, with Dracula X art printed over it, would somehow justify paying hundreds for a bootleg of a 1990's video game.
Why has god abandoned us.
I like the novelty of ingesting a mysterious beverage.
Then again, I have a history of finding old stuff and eating it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on August 27, 2015, 03:19:56 PM
Why the f*ck would anyone think that a can of energy drink with blank label straight from the movie Repo Man, with Dracula X art printed over it, would somehow justify paying hundreds for a bootleg of a 1990's video game.
Why has god abandoned us.
It's just a little extra something - he really is trying to mimic Working Designs with the stakes, crosses, keychain cards, and the drinks he found, but even without all that, you look at just the whole boxed package below, it IS attractive as all f--k!!! With or without the extra "sweeteners" to the deal, he's gonna cash in bigtime with it!
I really don't think anyone would try to drink any of those, but whatever. ;)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 27, 2015, 03:23:55 PM
I will absolutely drink. Dracula-X beverage. Even if it is a few years from now, when I get one from you guys, I will make a video opening, savoring and finishing it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on August 27, 2015, 04:36:59 PM
Why the f*ck would anyone think that a can of energy drink with blank label straight from the movie Repo Man, with Dracula X art printed over it, would somehow justify paying hundreds for a bootleg of a 1990's video game.
Why has god abandoned us.
It's just a little extra something - he really is trying to mimic Working Designs with the stakes, crosses, keychain cards, and the drinks he found, but even without all that, you look at just the whole boxed package below, it IS attractive as all f--k!!! With or without the extra "sweeteners" to the deal, he's gonna cash in bigtime with it!
TANGENT: Well, it wouldn't solve our fan translation issue, but for most folks who create stuff...
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
...Allows folks to build and transform your stuff, but not for commercial profit, so, slimy websites with ads that just scrape content from others are technically/ethically wrong.
NC type licenses have a very bad reputation within free culture circles. Usually it can be summed up like: [ul][li]False sense of security, this is a license, not a contract, so it is much more difficult to track and enforce[/li][li]It is very difficult to define what is a commercial activity, there will be loopholes to be exploited for those willing to abuse it and there will be severe limitations put on the audience supposed to benefit from it when the work is used as part of an economic activity not directly related to the exploitation of the work but relying on it, making such audience avoiding using the work by precaution[/li][li]Going to court costs a lot of money and a lot of energy, it is not worth the trouble in most cases to test the license validity and its potential abuse on your own. In the rare cases where it was tested in the past against big corporations which were abusing NC licensed works from individuals, the outcome was quit disappointing, as even if successful the compensations from suing were symbolical and the process to get it long and tedious.[/li][/ul]
As I said in the Zeroigar thread ... I don't have a lot of faith in that Creative Commons license.
It looks like it was written by lawyers, for-the-benefit-of lawyers.
I've read enough contracts and licenses, and paid for enough "professsional" advice (which usually totally missed the really significant loopholes), to be very wary of a license that claims to protect the author from someone else's "intent" to make a profit.
CC has been founded by Lawrence Lessig, an open content activist, law scholar and constitutionalist. So yes, CC licenses are biased in the way that they try to respond to the problem of intellectual property in the network society from the perspective of the law. This is different from GPL or BSD licenses that, even though are also legal documents, are rooted in the practice of software development, and more particularly the idea of software freedom and so called hacker ethics to refer to collaborative practices within commercial and academic computational culture in the 60s and 70s.
But to come back to my initial comment on Nina Paley, I find it particularly inspiring because it bypasses the regular mechanism of terms-permissions-enforcement-punishment, it does not rely on intellectual property laws for that, and it does not try to implement such a disciplinary system in the medium used (like DRM or any other copy protection system). Instead it reaches out to the public and offers in a transparent way, a choice that they can make by informing on how the project has been put, that it costs time and money and that there are some ways to consume the final product in which a bit of financial compensation will flow back to the project initiator.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: escarioth on August 27, 2015, 11:10:18 PM
Why the f*ck would anyone think that a can of energy drink with blank label straight from the movie Repo Man, with Dracula X art printed over it, would somehow justify paying hundreds for a bootleg of a 1990's video game.
oooh i totally forgot about working designs and their nice bundles. there was a time when they were the only ones doing nice stuff like that. The design and all of Tobias is interesting.. but i'm being sour about him taking advantage of translations projects to make money even if little at all out of them. So if something ever interest me at some point ill simply donate to the right guys :wink:
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 28, 2015, 12:36:13 AM
Ultrageranium, I am intrigued with everything you have shared. As presented, I agree with your sentiments.
My post below is in the spirit of clarifying points/understanding full implications of of IP, compensation, licensing, contracts, etc. :)
I realize I have to investigate these issues more fully on my own, since there probably have been many developments in last decade that I am unaware of. :)
[ul][li]False sense of security, this is a license, not a contract, so it is much more difficult to track and enforce[/li][/ul]
I agree that an examination of license vs. contract probably reveals major shortcomings in CC. But, even more damning is how the mere *suspicion* that CC is problematic can taint the entire endeavor (artists/creators don't want to touch it).
But, to play Devil's Advocate:
I would counter that contracts are just as ineffectual at our level (that is, the level of an average person, who has no time/resources/expertise to enforce a license, contract, or handshake).
Everything you said (which I agree with) is applicable to all licenses/contracts: 1. The selfish/powerful will exploit opportunities (in this case, IP) 2. If it comes to litigation, the IP holder can't match resources (legal or otherwise) 3. Any penalties, if there are any, are a pittance 4. The offender knows that they will most likely gain a net positive, even in a worst-case scenario.
So, what I am asking is: is the real issue "license vs contract" or "powerful vs. weak"?
Sure, I know they all interact with each other and are not mutually exclusive. What I am sincerely wondering, though, is if the barrier to entry (into the legal system) is simply too high for common folks.
Correct me if I am wrong, but no license/contract is capable of actually addressing (b) below:
A) The political/philosophical crafting of a fair IP system that can protect all entities, weak and powerful B) Creating something that is enforceable by the "weak" / Acknowledging realities (how power/resources win out over "justice")
Quote
But to come back to my initial comment on Nina Paley, I find it particularly inspiring because it bypasses the regular mechanism of terms-permissions-enforcement-punishment, it does not rely on intellectual property laws for that, and it does not try to implement such a disciplinary system in the medium used (like DRM or any other copy protection system). Instead it reaches out to the public and offers in a transparent way, a choice that they can make by informing on how the project has been put, that it costs time and money and that there are some ways to consume the final product in which a bit of financial compensation will flow back to the project initiator.
I am so glad it worked for her. As I said in my earlier post, her case study intrigues me.
I give her (and anyone who helped her) full credit for a creative solution..I am sure it required a lot of work, skill, negotiation, perseverance.
Some random thoughts...
NOVELTY WILL WEAR OFF? How much of her success is due to the novelty of the situation? Will others replicate her success? I suspect that the challenge is to CONTINUALLY devise unique solutions to unique problems...which leads to...
EXISTING AUDIENCE WILLING TO PAY? How much of her success is due to the unique nature of the medium (screening an art film) where a niche audience exists who are willing to pay (art house culture)? Do we have an equivalent in software? Video games?
I'll stop.
:)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on August 28, 2015, 03:19:38 AM
At this point, I'm more curious if people think that making a translation dependent upon a 3rd-party card like the TED2 would actually deter his customers from buying a pretty box-set?
Not even a little bit. People that're buying his stuff are more interested in pretty dust collectors, so whether or not the game works isn't much of a factor. Besides, there's nothing stopping them from buying a TED.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 28, 2015, 07:10:43 AM
That clown who would rather pay over $100 to play a bootleg spine card than a free cdr game reminded me of one of Tobias' key offenses for which there is no excuse.
After my Saphire bootleg guide was used by eBay sellers of legit copies of the game, Tobias had another batch made, in an attempt to fix the most noticeable flaws (like her purple suit appearing blue), so that people wouldn't be able to tell from photos if they were fake.
This was after he'd given up on his previous stories of official 2nd print runs and confirmation of autheticity from current day Hudson Soft. He wasn't making a cheap functional copy for fans to play. He put extra effort to once again pass off his copies as authentic. This was after he'd already made tens of thousands of dollars from the first run.
I don't think he's stopped making or selling them either. I believe that he's returned to his original plan of low cost/time + high profit margin and is just slowly trickling them out on auction sites.
For the love of it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on August 28, 2015, 08:41:02 AM
That clown who would rather pay over $100 to play a bootleg spine card than a free cdr game reminded me of one of Tobias' key offenses for which there is no excuse.
After my Saphire bootleg guide was used by eBay sellers of legit copies of the game, Tobias had another batch made, in an attempt to fix the most noticeable flaws (like her purple suit appearing blue), so that people wouldn't be able to tell from photos if they were fake.
This was after he'd given up on his previous stories of official 2nd print runs and confirmation of autheticity from current day Hudson Soft. He wasn't making a cheap functional copy for fans to play. He put extra effort to once again pass off his copies as authentic. This was after he'd already made tens of thousands of dollars from the first run.
I don't think he's stopped making or selling them either. I believe that he's returned to his original plan of low cost/time + high profit margin and is just slowly trickling them out on auction sites.
For the love of it.
At least he can't fake the inner ring part....yet.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 28, 2015, 10:30:30 AM
Damn.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 28, 2015, 10:31:33 AM
It's official, we need to flood the market with thousands of Sapphire, Renny Blaster, Dracula X bootlegs made of chocolate.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 28, 2015, 10:31:46 AM
Bittersweet chocolate.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 28, 2015, 10:32:02 AM
Bitter. Bitter. Sweet.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BlueBMW on August 29, 2015, 04:08:08 AM
Om nom nom nom
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: shonenx on August 30, 2015, 05:01:31 AM
i can't imagine myself in the 90s ever thinking this hobby would become this crazy with bootlegs being remade using the very guides that were created to protect us or items like this Castlevainia box that is just a custom bootleg item sold as a Limited collectible. its nuts that Bootlegs can now be called Limited Editions. I've always loved my Famicom Bootlegs but part of that is the price tag of 1-3 bucks and its campiness. And btw I'm one of the original suckers that sadly bought the old sapphire fake years ago.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ultrageranium on August 31, 2015, 09:41:22 AM
I would counter that contracts are just as ineffectual at our level (that is, the level of an average person, who has no time/resources/expertise to enforce a license, contract, or handshake).
Everything you said (which I agree with) is applicable to all licenses/contracts: 1. The selfish/powerful will exploit opportunities (in this case, IP) 2. If it comes to litigation, the IP holder can't match resources (legal or otherwise) 3. Any penalties, if there are any, are a pittance 4. The offender knows that they will most likely gain a net positive, even in a worst-case scenario.
So, what I am asking is: is the real issue "license vs contract" or "powerful vs. weak"?
Sure, I know they all interact with each other and are not mutually exclusive. What I am sincerely wondering, though, is if the barrier to entry (into the legal system) is simply too high for common folks.
Of course, you are completely right. IP is something out of the reach of the people. These days these are essentially the tools of corporations, which are the only entities able to access and navigate this field at their advantage. This is also the reason why there was 10 years ago, so much hope put in the concept of free culture (or any new social movements related to cultural environmentalism) as it gave the impression of giving control back into the hand of the people. To some extent this is still perceived strongly in South America and Southern Europe where the idea of commons is still tightly linked to social empowerment.
But...
Quote
Correct me if I am wrong, but no license/contract is capable of actually addressing (b) below:
A) The political/philosophical crafting of a fair IP system that can protect all entities, weak and powerful B) Creating something that is enforceable by the "weak" / Acknowledging realities (how power/resources win out over "justice")
These are unsolvable issues, although there has been some attempts to make, in the case of licensing, a stronger link with some ideological intention. For instance there exists a so-called Peer Production License (PPL), which is a fork of the CC BY-NC-SA (if I remember correctly) that prevents commercial exploitation of the licensed work by corporations, unless it's a worker owned corporation or cooperative. Unfortunately these forms of IP hacks are so niche that they never take off.
As for your point B, and the notions of enforcement and access, most of the time, these institutions are only the reflection, implementations, and manifestation of a dominant ideology or a dominant set of neighbouring ideologies. So all these things only exist to reinforce whoever/whatever has access to power.
Quote
Quote
But to come back to my initial comment on Nina Paley, I find it particularly inspiring because it bypasses the regular mechanism of terms-permissions-enforcement-punishment, it does not rely on intellectual property laws for that, and it does not try to implement such a disciplinary system in the medium used (like DRM or any other copy protection system). Instead it reaches out to the public and offers in a transparent way, a choice that they can make by informing on how the project has been put, that it costs time and money and that there are some ways to consume the final product in which a bit of financial compensation will flow back to the project initiator.
I am so glad it worked for her. As I said in my earlier post, her case study intrigues me.
I give her (and anyone who helped her) full credit for a creative solution..I am sure it required a lot of work, skill, negotiation, perseverance.
Yes, and that's sadly enough the reason why she won't do it again for her next big project. The time and energy it took was way too much, and somehow demonstrating the reason why there are such things as collecting societies (the organisations which deals with artists' work exploitation, licensing and royalties). However, it showed that collecting societies do not have to be opaque and revolve around a celebrity system. Maybe something like what she did could scale up given some visible and already established artists would be up for operating differently, which might not happen given the fact that it would mean giving up on a well known scheme for easy incomes.
Quote
Some random thoughts...
NOVELTY WILL WEAR OFF? How much of her success is due to the novelty of the situation? Will others replicate her success? I suspect that the challenge is to CONTINUALLY devise unique solutions to unique problems
I don't think it will wear off, actually it is already in place in the form of consumer capitalism and the way the market is manipulated by the use of all sorts labels and classification of goods based on morales and ethics. For instance Fair-Trade, Organic, Green, etc. In a way her approach is similar in the sense that she sorted establishments based on a moral system (they gave me some money so they're nice) and let the customers decide whether they wanted to reward the nice people or be cheap. The difference is that her system was simple, transparent and singular, so the manipulation was limited (in my opinion).
Quote
...which leads to...
EXISTING AUDIENCE WILLING TO PAY? How much of her success is due to the unique nature of the medium (screening an art film) where a niche audience exists who are willing to pay (art house culture)? Do we have an equivalent in software? Video games?
That I don't know. I guess for the translation/repros issue, the best way to figure out if there is an audience for a more ethical approach would simply to try setting up such a list and agreement with a handful repro makers. Anyone up for it?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on August 31, 2015, 11:12:45 AM
NOVELTY WILL WEAR OFF? How much of her success is due to the novelty of the situation? Will others replicate her success? I suspect that the challenge is to CONTINUALLY devise unique solutions to unique problems
I don't think it will wear off, actually it is already in place in the form of consumer capitalism and the way the market is manipulated by the use of all sorts labels and classification of goods based on morales and ethics. For instance Fair-Trade, Organic, Green, etc. In a way her approach is similar in the sense that she sorted establishments based on a moral system (they gave me some money so they're nice) and let the customers decide whether they wanted to reward the nice people or be cheap. The difference is that her system was simple, transparent and singular, so the manipulation was limited (in my opinion).
Yes, I think limiting manipulation...or, rather, making any attempt to manipulate plainly visible—this is the key to building trust and credibility. As you said, a simple, clear path to support.
Quote
Quote
...which leads to...
EXISTING AUDIENCE WILLING TO PAY? How much of her success is due to the unique nature of the medium (screening an art film) where a niche audience exists who are willing to pay (art house culture)? Do we have an equivalent in software? Video games?
That I don't know. I guess for the translation/repros issue, the best way to figure out if there is an audience for a more ethical approach would simply to try setting up such a list and agreement with a handful repro makers. Anyone up for it?
This is the hard work. :)
Also, I simply don't trust (ha!) the existing repromakers.
Of course, I also feel that we need a multi-thronged approach:
(1) Public education/enlightenment about the issue (getting the word out there, using various tactics: PSAs, outreach to "opinion-shapers" (I hate this term, but, whatever...folks with clout on YouTube)
(2) Building relationships with repromakers (I can't help but feel that this is the weak link...how do I even trust these folks? What would it take, outside of personally befriending them on a local level and having access to financial records?)
(3) Generating our own data/projections (determining actual costs for repros—including economies of scale—versus profit margins).
(4) Some folks would not want certain projects to EVER be handled by a bootlegger/repromaker...so, we would have to help educate folks on good, old-fashioned D.I.Y. (Guides on how to easily create your own reproductions).
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on September 01, 2015, 04:58:27 AM
I think only way he will stop making them is if it's profitable anymore, so maybe community run cheap bootlegs are the best way to destroy his business model. If you can buy pressed copies for like $5 instead of $50 he will just be left sitting on stock that doesn't move and start taking losses.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: GreatBlueSwirlof99 on September 01, 2015, 05:24:36 AM
Wow, this guy sounds like a dirt bag!
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on September 01, 2015, 05:39:54 AM
I think only way he will stop making them is if it's profitable anymore, so maybe community run cheap bootlegs are the best way to destroy his business model. If you can buy pressed copies for like $5 instead of $50 he will just be left sitting on stock that doesn't move and start taking losses.
Even cheap booties are expensive to press, it would be around $15+ a disc (or less depending on the amount you get pressed). It would almost make more sense to purchase a couple of Tobias' spools from him and then sell them/give them out to compete with him... Which makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on September 01, 2015, 06:09:46 AM
It's not that expensive to get pressed discs made. It starts at about $1 each for bulk discs to $3 each in jewel cases with eight page booklets, and the price per unit goes down from there if you can peddle more than 300.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: geise on September 01, 2015, 06:20:32 AM
...if people stop buying the shit...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ultrageranium on September 01, 2015, 07:17:07 AM
(1) Public education/enlightenment about the issue (getting the word out there, using various tactics: PSAs, outreach to "opinion-shapers" (I hate this term, but, whatever...folks with clout on YouTube)
(2) Building relationships with repromakers (I can't help but feel that this is the weak link...how do I even trust these folks? What would it take, outside of personally befriending them on a local level and having access to financial records?)
(3) Generating our own data/projections (determining actual costs for repros—including economies of scale—versus profit margins).
(4) Some folks would not want certain projects to EVER be handled by a bootlegger/repromaker...so, we would have to help educate folks on good, old-fashioned D.I.Y. (Guides on how to easily create your own reproductions).
[uldecimal][li]A decent domain name (as in search friendly) serving a max 500 words explanation on repros should do the trick as a starter and handy URL to spread to have a crisp and simple explanation about the practice.[/li][li]That's the most difficult part, to find existing or repros makers to willing to work on or accept some code of conduct. As for the trust, it's something that has to be assumed without doubt, otherwise all the energy will be spent on tracking, controlling, certifying, enforcing, punishing, etc. In no time it will become yet another disciplinary society in a box.[/li][li]You can do that for your own repros making, but it's not something we can expect others to do and it would be a bit totalitarian to impose such a level of transparency.[/li][li]Great point, such code of conduct should respect the wishes of the groups that made the hack/translation. Quite similar to what batoto tries to be for scanlations. As for the guide it would be great to have a wiki and populate it with several howtos, but a bunch of links to existing guides could be a good start too.[/li][/ul]
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 01, 2015, 07:35:17 AM
I think only way he will stop making them is if it's profitable anymore, so maybe community run cheap bootlegs are the best way to destroy his business model. If you can buy pressed copies for like $5 instead of $50 he will just be left sitting on stock that doesn't move and start taking losses.
I've thought about doing this, but I now realize that if we keep it within the pcefx community, it will make no difference. If we sell them to anyone, most will flip them on eBay and they will instantly become another limited edition collectible, independant of Tobias' rare collectibles.
The problem now is collectards who don't play games, retain very little knowledge and learn what little they do retain exclusively from watching youtube videos full of misinformation, which also cater to collectardation.
Maybe if we bootleg every Turbo game ever made, they will become more valuable than the originals and we'll at least have that.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Lost Monkey on September 01, 2015, 01:46:02 PM
I think only way he will stop making them is if it's profitable anymore, so maybe community run cheap bootlegs are the best way to destroy his business model. If you can buy pressed copies for like $5 instead of $50 he will just be left sitting on stock that doesn't move and start taking losses.
I've thought about doing this, but I now realize that if we keep it within the pcefx community, it will make no difference. If we sell them to anyone, most will flip them on eBay and they will instantly become another limited edition collectible, independant of Tobias' rare collectibles.
Just keep a $5 supply at the ready and you are good to go.
I've been looking at the cost of getting CDs pressed and it appears to be under $2/pc with full booklets for about 500 and under $1.50/pc for 1000...
Copyright issues are a whole other ballgame though.. where is Tobias getting them pressed? I would be surprised if they are being done in Europe...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: crazydean on September 01, 2015, 01:58:06 PM
What if we just made a couple thousand and sold them on ebay for $10 each. That should cover all costs and flood the market, making them all effectively worthless.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on September 01, 2015, 06:05:55 PM
I thought they were being done in Europe? Or am I just thinking of his physical location? Normally I would guess they're made in China.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 01, 2015, 06:29:24 PM
Care4data in Switzerland made his bootleg Sapphires.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on September 02, 2015, 03:25:14 AM
It shouldn't matter if they're being made in China, if he's selling them in Europe he's still bound by EU copyright laws.
Yeah, cheap booties would probably bring it down fast but the problem would be like BT said possible creating another collectard collectible that winds up as a "neat variant" or some shit down the line.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on September 02, 2015, 03:54:11 AM
It shouldn't matter if they're being made in China, if he's selling them in Europe he's still bound by EU copyright laws.
Yeah, cheap booties would probably bring it down fast but the problem would be like BT said possible creating another collectard collectible that winds up as a "neat variant" or some shit down the line.
Just look at all the repro manuals, maps and boxes being paired up with games on eBay. This place is already a gold mine for resellers and Tobias has already established the market for collectible bootleg PCE games.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on September 02, 2015, 06:42:09 AM
It shouldn't matter if they're being made in China, if he's selling them in Europe he's still bound by EU copyright laws.
It matters in whether or not the pressing house will check copyright ownership. Do Chinese companies even ask?
In Brazil CD pressing factories usually ask for separate documentation for every single audio/data track on a CD-ROM, so I was surprised to learn that Tobias' "Sapphire 2nd Print" manufacturer was in Switzerland. I wonder if they didn't ask for proof of ownership or if Tobias just forged his documents.
If he could print the bootlegs in Switzerland he could print them in China too IMO.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 03, 2015, 02:45:51 PM
Considering how far Tobias has gone in various bootlegging projects, I wouldn't be surprised if he forged documents from various copyright holders.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on September 12, 2015, 03:20:51 PM
That clown who would rather pay over $100 to play a bootleg spine card than a free cdr game reminded me of one of Tobias' key offenses for which there is no excuse.
After my Sapphire bootleg guide was used by eBay sellers of legit copies of the game, Tobias had another batch made, in an attempt to fix the most noticeable flaws (like her purple suit appearing blue), so that people wouldn't be able to tell from photos if they were fake.
This was after he'd given up on his previous stories of official 2nd print runs and confirmation of authenticity from current day Hudson Soft. He wasn't making a cheap functional copy for fans to play. He put extra effort to once again pass off his copies as authentic. This was after he'd already made tens of thousands of dollars from the first run.
I don't think he's stopped making or selling them either. I believe that he's returned to his original plan of low cost/time + high profit margin and is just slowly trickling them out on auction sites.
For the love of it.
Ah, I didn't know about this secondary attempt... So, in other words, after he sold those imperfect copies to BlueBMW who resold them on the cheap, he went back to his bootlegging press and tried to make them better imitate the originals, etc. Interesting... If we look at the Youtube landscape and consider clowns such as the one I posted about who went full troll on me, the appearance is he's been entirely forgiven for all of this!
I can't think of her now, Ericka (?), but she gave me the old line in her Youtube video comments about, "I don't judge..." Hahaha! It's the selective usage of critics being, you know, "too judgmental..." ;)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: wildfruit on September 13, 2015, 07:38:59 AM
So I got hold of copies of xak 3 and so2 from this guy. And no I didn't pay for them. Curious, on xak 3 when a screen loads it flickers at the top of the screen, lines of colour jut out horizontally. I wonder if that's a quirk of the game or something to do with this copy?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 13, 2015, 09:29:27 AM
SamIam has a decent idea; put in an easy to hack disclaimer, and then check for alterations randomly through out the game.
I won't give details, but you can hide it pretty deep in the data track and make it very random and very difficult to find. Have it do something like hard lock the game, display an annoying/FU message, and then delete your save file (bye,bye progress). Or maybe something more evil like all of BRAM.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on September 13, 2015, 10:11:45 AM
As hilarious as all that sounds, I'm left wondering if the people who buy these even play any of the games?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on September 13, 2015, 10:16:22 AM
SamIam has a decent idea; put in an easy to hack disclaimer, and then check for alterations randomly through out the game.
I won't give details, but you can hide it pretty deep in the data track and make it very random and very difficult to find. Have it do something like hard lock the game, display an annoying/FU message, and then delete your save file (bye,bye progress). Or maybe something more evil like all of BRAM.
Sure, you could do that, and since I'm probably going to end up completely recompressing Xanadu 2 in a new format, I could easily hide boody-trap code like that in there, too.
But why-on-earth would I???
Just in case you missed it ... he beat us ... http://freeturbodiscs.com/
The translations are given out for free.
For gawd's sake, he's even giving away Sapphire discs too, now!
He's not directly making money off "our" translations anymore ... the cost of giving them away is now built into his "marketing" and "PR" budget (raising the cost of the "packaged" products).
Just what language are we going to put into in some hypotheical and intrusive "Winner's Say No To PCEWorks" screen that ... [uldecimal][li]Wouldn't just make the translators look like little children throwing a tantrum.[/li][li]Would make you think that Tobias would actually want to spend any time/effort trying to remove it.[/li][/ul]To most of the collectards out there, what he's doing is providing a huge benefit to the their enjoyment of pretty packaged "stuff". :roll:
We're getting to the point of arguing that we should just start acting just like all the music companies did when they tried to force DRM on everyone.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on September 13, 2015, 10:53:29 AM
Holy shit that free turbo discs site. What a morally bankrupt a$$hole.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on September 13, 2015, 11:03:30 AM
Weirdly complex scrolling of a site too... Tangent: I have to admit I long for the days of basic HTML that worked on every possible browser instead of the trend to over-complicate and the packing of a massive loading punch when you hit a page with fancy menus, popups, feedback or STOP-SIGN-UP-NOW requests, video ads, etc. (not him, I mean in general over the Internet; his is just unneeded complexity for what could be one simple page with a few links, etc.)... :/
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Dicer on September 13, 2015, 01:19:36 PM
Weirdly complex scrolling of a site too... Tangent: I have to admit I long for the days of basic HTML that worked on every possible browser instead of the trend to over-complicate and the packing of a massive loading punch when you hit a page with fancy menus, popups, feedback or STOP-SIGN-UP-NOW requests, video ads, etc. (not him, I mean in general over the Internet; his is just unneeded complexity for what could be one simple page with a few links, etc.)... :/
You need simplicity like this... http://wombatnipplechips.com/
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 13, 2015, 01:26:42 PM
SamIam has a decent idea; put in an easy to hack disclaimer, and then check for alterations randomly through out the game.
I won't give details, but you can hide it pretty deep in the data track and make it very random and very difficult to find. Have it do something like hard lock the game, display an annoying/FU message, and then delete your save file (bye,bye progress). Or maybe something more evil like all of BRAM.
Sure, you could do that, and since I'm probably going to end up completely recompressing Xanadu 2 in a new format, I could easily hide boody-trap code like that in there, too.
But why-on-earth would I???
Just in case you missed it ... he beat us ... http://freeturbodiscs.com/
The translations are given out for free.
For gawd's sake, he's even giving away Sapphire discs too, now!
He's not directly making money off "our" translations anymore ... the cost of giving them away is now built into his "marketing" and "PR" budget (raising the cost of the "packaged" products).
Just what language are we going to put into in some hypotheical and intrusive "Winner's Say No To PCEWorks" screen that ... [uldecimal][li]Wouldn't just make the translators look like little children throwing a tantrum.[/li][li]Would make you think that Tobias would actually want to spend any time/effort trying to remove it.[/li][/ul]To most of the collectards out there, what he's doing is providing a huge benefit to the their enjoyment of pretty packaged "stuff". :roll:
We're getting to the point of arguing that we should just start acting just like all the music companies did when they tried to force DRM on everyone.
Actually, not so much him. He doesn't seem to go after homebrew, and that's more what I had in mind with that post. There are people out there that have the mentality that if you don't sell your own stuff - someone else is free to (ethically). While this is more in the SNES, NES, and Genesis circles... it can happen with PCE. Homebrew, hacks, translation - they're one in the same for these guys.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on September 13, 2015, 02:02:53 PM
Actually, not so much him. He doesn't seem to go after homebrew, and that's more what I had in mind with that post. There are people out there that have the mentality that if you don't sell your own stuff - someone else is free to (ethically). While this is more in the SNES, NES, and Genesis circles... it can happen with PCE. Homebrew, hacks, translation - they're one in the same for these guys.
I am being a bit myopic, aren't I? :oops:
Yes, there are other smaller-scale and less balsy low-lifers, and even other gaming platforms, where such a tactic might be a discouragement.
I don't like the idea of grandifying those kind of folks by actually having to code booby-traps into games ... but I guess that would be up to individual development/translation teams.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on September 13, 2015, 06:57:35 PM
: I have to admit I long for the days of basic HTML that worked on every possible browser
Me too. That was the time when most people wrote their code themselves instead of using CMS and huge libraries of Javascript that freezes your phone and f*cks up your computer browser.
About the free discs: I won't give that motherf*cker my address. I'd rather get my Duo's laser pots fixed for CD-Rs.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on September 13, 2015, 08:58:13 PM
What Tobias did with the Sapphire bootlegs is not something anyone could rationalize away, and therefore I don't think we can ever really trust him. However, I do suspect that we've vilified this guy to the point that some of our fears are a little overblown.
Tobias started giving away Xak III and Startling Odyssey II when Nightwolve contacted him after he put them up on his site. The give-aways may have resulted in bigger sales of other products, but I think it's possible that they are not part of a scheme which he will continue to apply to all translations. For example, where is YsIV? We've heard that he pressed them and is supposedly sitting on them. However, that was a while ago. Could it be that Tobias's morals are not so totally black and white, and that being asked by the translator not to release a repro made him decide not to? If only for the bad press it might generate?
Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, here's a few points I'd like to make.
-Dracula X is pretty special, and it's no surprise that he went out on a limb for it. Nearly every other translate-able game on the system, however, including Xanadu I and II, is completely different. The originals are cheap, and most people don't know the franchises. Therefore, there's much less reward for any risk even if he gives away pressed copies for free.
-We should talk to him. Seriously. Before a release, let's just message him and say "Hi. We're about to release a translation, and we'd really appreciate it if you didn't make reproductions of it. We aren't accepting money for these because we believe it's wrong to do so, and it discourages us from doing what we do when we see people selling reproductions of our work. If you really love the PCE and would like to see more translations, please respect our wishes. Thank you."
-Like it or not, Tobias does love the PC Engine. He's posted on shmups.com for years, and I bet he knows more about PCE shooters than a lot of you do. Again, what he's done with Sapphire and other works is inexcusable, but I think he just might be more complex than the mustache-twirling villain we have been making him out to be. He might respond positively to positive engagement.
-The thing that makes the RIAA and the MPAA look so ridiculous is how threatening and patronizing they are. I think it's possible to craft a loading screen message that tactfully appeals to the player's maturity...a thing that IMHO people around this somewhat insular community are incorrectly convinced that too many outsiders have none of. Furthermore, if adding a loading screen message moves even a small fraction of the people who would pick up an unapproved repro, I think it's worth it.
Just my two cents.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 14, 2015, 06:00:41 AM
Actually, not so much him. He doesn't seem to go after homebrew, and that's more what I had in mind with that post. There are people out there that have the mentality that if you don't sell your own stuff - someone else is free to (ethically). While this is more in the SNES, NES, and Genesis circles... it can happen with PCE. Homebrew, hacks, translation - they're one in the same for these guys.
I am being a bit myopic, aren't I? :oops:
Yes, there are other smaller-scale and less balsy low-lifers, and even other gaming platforms, where such a tactic might be a discouragement.
I don't like the idea of grandifying those kind of folks by actually having to code booby-traps into games ... but I guess that would be up to individual development/translation teams.
And honestly, it's the risk we take when we do translations/hacks/homebrew. I've known this for years. I would probably never go as far as to implement such drastic anti-piracy measures, but it's nice to fantasize about it - lol.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on September 14, 2015, 09:33:15 AM
Actually, not so much him. He doesn't seem to go after homebrew, and that's more what I had in mind with that post. There are people out there that have the mentality that if you don't sell your own stuff - someone else is free to (ethically). While this is more in the SNES, NES, and Genesis circles... it can happen with PCE. Homebrew, hacks, translation - they're one in the same for these guys.
I am being a bit myopic, aren't I? :oops:
Yes, there are other smaller-scale and less balsy low-lifers, and even other gaming platforms, where such a tactic might be a discouragement.
I don't like the idea of grandifying those kind of folks by actually having to code booby-traps into games ... but I guess that would be up to individual development/translation teams.
And honestly, it's the risk we take when we do translations/hacks/homebrew. I've known this for years. I would probably never go as far as to implement such drastic anti-piracy measures, but it's nice to fantasize about it - lol.
How hard would it be to insert a HuVideo on the intro of a fan translated game? If it wasn't too difficult, put in a Rick Roll video and they have to put in a code to get into the actual game otherwise it loops over and over again reminding people that this translation was free and if they paid for the repro they have to stomach Rick Roll. :P
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on September 14, 2015, 02:34:36 PM
Seriously. Tobias is a f*cking a$$hole, period. LOL if you think that his free turbo disc site isn't to make people who call him out on his practices look like raving lunatics in the eyes of the general collect(ard) public.
He's actually an evil genious, with his whole 'for the love of it' campaign. It might get to the point that even straight up inserting a text in the intro of a game/translation calling out tobias might not be effective, in fact it might even backfire and make the guy who wrote the text look like an idiot. I would guess that the only thing we can do for now is ignore him.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on September 14, 2015, 04:22:23 PM
It might get to the point that even straight up inserting a text in the intro of a game/translation calling out tobias might not be effective, in fact it might even backfire and make the guy who wrote the text look like an idiot. I would guess that the only thing we can do for now is ignore him.
I'm not terribly concerned with how I look. If I'm going to stand by my conviction that unauthorized repros are bad, I'm going to have to be tougher than that.
Also, to me at least, there's a big difference between the RIAA making an over-the-top commercial shouting at you that downloading an mp3 is like stealing bread from a starving child and will land you behind bars FOR LIFE, and some upstart musician saying "If you like my stuff, please support me". I think it's possible to make a loading screen message that would get across the fact that we don't want to see repros, and also that would survive any test of time without becoming ridiculous.
We might see repros no matter what we do, but we should do what we can. A loading screen message does not take a lot of effort to make (I think), it does not deeply impact the player's experience of the game, and it guarantees that at least everyone will be informed. That WILL make at least some difference.
That's the email he wrote to Nightwolve back when the Xak III repros first appeared. Yes, it's a dizzying flurry of rationalization. Yes, it seems like he will print anything he can get away with printing. But it looks to me like he's transitioned from being a con-man selling fake Sapphires to being an established black market dealer who is concerned about his customers' perceptions of him. In another email, he describes a "balancing act". It's like the difference between selling knock-off Rolex watches advertised as such and selling stolen ones; he probably wants people to think he's a trustworthy knock-off seller. Most people have no qualms about buying a knock-off if the quality is good and the original company is faceless and rich. You know, like Konami.
It's not the best analogy, but the point is that in this day in age, he probably stands to earn more money as a "legit" black market dealer. He probably wants to avoid drama.
I think we should contact him by making a post in a public forum he visits...possibly shmups.com...and tell him that we want him to pledge not to make reproductions of the Xanadu translations for no reason other than that it goes against our wishes, and we're the ones providing translations.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: shonenx on September 14, 2015, 04:48:11 PM
A gentleman in the Neo Geo community worked to convert Ironclad from CD to MVS when bootlegs of his work popped up for sale he fought it by making more copies and offering it cheaper than the bootleggers , unfortunately at cost to himself I believe .
Not saying its a solution that works here (especially on CD formats) but maybe putting up a dedicated FAQ on the Facts of the situation and how individuals can make their own copies to play at home would stop the money from flowing into the wrong pockets.
Either way I mention this past case as an example that no solution will be easy or over night.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on September 14, 2015, 05:33:55 PM
Tobias started giving away Xak III and Startling Odyssey II when Nightwolve contacted him after he put them up on his site. The give-aways may have resulted in bigger sales of other products, but I think it's possible that they are not part of a scheme which he will continue to apply to all translations.
I think that he was truly surprised by the negative reaction, and then turned around and tried to make it all a positive by giving some away.
Remember ... he still kept on selling (and advertising) the rest of his stock of them.
Quote
For example, where is YsIV? We've heard that he pressed them and is supposedly sitting on them. However, that was a while ago. Could it be that Tobias's morals are not so totally black and white, and that being asked by the translator not to release a repro made him decide not to? If only for the bad press it might generate?
I doubt it. He's supposed to have a lot of product in his queue, all ready to go.
I just don't think that he wants to flood the market. It's a chance for his customers to refill their wallets ready for his next offer.
Quote
Dracula X is pretty special, and it's no surprise that he went out on a limb for it. Nearly every other translate-able game on the system, however, including Xanadu I and II, is completely different. The originals are cheap, and most people don't know the franchises. Therefore, there's much less reward for any risk even if he gives away pressed copies for free.
What risk? He's already neutered our complaints by giving the translations away.
You have to go to his "freebie" site and write a note explaining why you deserve to get one for free.
Want to bet that all of his customers that have bought DraculaX will somehow be deemed "worthy" of getting a free copy of the translation?
Sure, he won't be able to charge as much for other games as he's doing for DraculaX, but his profit margin is high, and don't forget that he's already released plenty of other games that don't have the profile of DraculaX.
His buying public will lap them up anyway. Particularly if there's a place in the CD case already pre-prepared for a free English-translated version. He does put together a beautiful product.
Quote
-We should talk to him. Seriously. Before a release, let's just message him and say "Hi. We're about to release a translation, and we'd really appreciate it if you didn't make reproductions of it. We aren't accepting money for these because we believe it's wrong to do so, and it discourages us from doing what we do when we see people selling reproductions of our work. If you really love the PCE and would like to see more translations, please respect our wishes. Thank you."
You're asking him to somehow have respect for our wishes, when it's already been shown that he has no respect for other people's property rights.
Somehow, I really just can't see that working. Doesn't hurt to try, though. :)
Quote
Like it or not, Tobias does love the PC Engine. He's posted on shmups.com for years, and I bet he knows more about PCE shooters than a lot of you do. Again, what he's done with Sapphire and other works is inexcusable, but I think he just might be more complex than the mustache-twirling villain we have been making him out to be. He might respond positively to positive engagement.
Errr ... I honestly suspect that he thinks that he's doing a good thing.
Quote
Furthermore, if adding a loading screen message moves even a small fraction of the people who would pick up an unapproved repro, I think it's worth it.
It can be done. It's just a bit of a PITA.
The thing is ... people aren't going to see it until they've already paid for the product.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on September 14, 2015, 06:29:41 PM
The logic of desperately begging Tobias not to produce more discs based on fan translations is the same as wearing a T-Shirt that says "please do not rape my ass" in public. Cause you know, just in case somebody wanted to do that to you, he'd now be informed that he shouldn't.
Tobias reads this forum anyway, so he knows exactly what kind of an immoral guy he is. There's no way he could be surprised at all about the reactions. From common sense, he should be the one asking for permission first instead of the other way around. And a morally intact person would refrain from making discs of other people's work if he isn't allowed to.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on September 14, 2015, 06:40:18 PM
I think the logic of putting in a loading screen message is more like "See this fake Rolex you bought? It's actually stolen."
I do believe that some people would be influenced by that.
I do not think Tobias is really a moral guy who is just a little misunderstood. He's basically a thief. But I do think we ought to give him the chance to do the right thing, and we should do it publicly. He just me surprise us, for one thing, and for another, even if he doesn't, I don't think we'll regret it.
Quote
You're asking him to somehow have respect for our wishes, when it's already been shown that he has no respect for other people's property rights.
Quote
I think that he was truly surprised by the negative reaction. . . . I honestly suspect that he thinks that he's doing a good thing.
He doesn't care about respecting the original IP holders*, and he doesn't care about ripping off collectors. However, he might care about ripping off people actively doing translations for a system he enjoys, and he might care about more widespread negative reactions.
*by releasing translations, some might say neither are we.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on September 14, 2015, 10:12:01 PM
A well-written disclaimer, that appears as a loading screen, can only help.
The disclaimer can inform ANYONE who plays the game, not simply the original owner of a physical copy.
As soon as the original owner sells/gifts the bootleg to a new person, the PSA has a chance to inform.
Likewise, anyone downloading/burning a copy of the game can be informed.
At the very least, we need folks to be informed.
Some folks will never bother reading the disclaimer—but that doesn't mean it is futile.
And we should never mention Tobias/PCE Works specifically in the disclaimer. It is the general principle we are imparting, applicable to all media across all platforms.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Koop on October 01, 2015, 12:33:03 PM
A well-written disclaimer, that appears as a loading screen, can only help.
The disclaimer can inform ANYONE who plays the game, not simply the original owner of a physical copy.
As soon as the original owner sells/gifts the bootleg to a new person, the PSA has a chance to inform.
Likewise, anyone downloading/burning a copy of the game can be informed.
At the very least, we need folks to be informed.
Some folks will never bother reading the disclaimer—but that doesn't mean it is futile.
And we should never mention Tobias/PCE Works specifically in the disclaimer. It is the general principle we are imparting, applicable to all media across all platforms.
I mean just look at the homebrew channel on wii. "If you paid for this you were duped" or whatever every time you boot it up.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Mathius on October 01, 2015, 04:52:13 PM
Way to go, me. I lost another bookmark and hadn't been keeping up with this thread. I got to page 43 before I was exhausted from 2 hours of reading posts.
Holy damn. Konami isn't Konami anymore (they sexed up my Castlevania! I puked in my mouth), Tobias sold his soul to the king of collectard hell, and Necro and Esty bicker. At each other! I don't ever want to see that again, you two. :-$ Oh and Tats comes home. Finally.
I love you all and I want this shit to cease for all our sake.
Can't we just buy a South Pacific island, invite the dudes from old NEC-HE to live with us there, set up manufacturing plants for CRT TVs, circuit boards, micro-processors and the like, and live happily ever after? This is all getting too crazy for me lately. Maybe it was because of my accident but I'm a lot more aware of just how blessed we are to have the hobby that we do and to have this particular community. It's all so fragile and I fear the collectards are ruining things for everybody.
All I know is I'm going to fight for it til my dying breath.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on October 02, 2015, 01:48:58 PM
Holy damn. Konami isn't Konami anymore (they sexed up my Castlevania! I puked in my mouth), Tobias sold his soul to the king of collectard hell, and Necro and Esty bicker. At each other! I don't ever want to see that again, you two. :-$ Oh and Tats comes home. Finally.
I love you all and I want this shit to cease for all our sake.
Mathius, I was going through menopause.
I don't ever want to argue with Necro or Professor again.
I probably will (ha!), but that's what happens during hot flashes.
:)
I really wish Necro, Prof and I could have hugged/spooned after our spat.
Luckily, we still can do that on an isle in the South Pacific.
Obviously, Mathius, you and I will play Monster Lair. A lot.
Just promise not to get sand in the CD drive. Or the HuCARD slot.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Mathius on October 02, 2015, 03:29:26 PM
Holy damn. Konami isn't Konami anymore (they sexed up my Castlevania! I puked in my mouth), Tobias sold his soul to the king of collectard hell, and Necro and Esty bicker. At each other! I don't ever want to see that again, you two. :-$ Oh and Tats comes home. Finally.
I love you all and I want this shit to cease for all our sake.
Mathius, I was going through menopause.
I don't ever want to argue with Necro or Professor again.
I probably will (ha!), but that's what happens during hot flashes.
:)
I really wish Necro, Prof and I could have hugged/spooned after our spat.
Luckily, we still can do that on an isle in the South Pacific.
Obviously, Mathius, you and I will play Monster Lair. A lot.
Just promise not to get sand in the CD drive. Or the HuCARD slot.
Sand and slots.... There is a joke in their somewhere. :-k
I missed prof jumping in on the action but my eyes were holding up white flags from trying to catch up with over 30 pages of drama so I'm not surprised I missed it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on October 02, 2015, 03:44:03 PM
^hahhahaa!
I remember the days when I would trudge through hundreds of posts...trying to catch up with things.
:)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gredler on October 04, 2015, 05:33:24 AM
I remember the days when I would trudge through hundreds of posts...trying to catch up with things.
:)
Hahaha glad to hear I am not the only one who can't keep up, or the only one going through manopause ;)
I agree with the idea of a difficult to remove informative splash screen. Granted it will only be seem by the people who not only purchase these boots but also - God forbid - open the game, it will at least inform that small group.
Judging by how many you tubers and bloggers do play and advertise these games, but are completely oblivious to their shady roots, perhaps they would second guess promoting the product, of at least relay the info to their audience.
I do think the media needs to play a larger role in this knowledge transmission. People are uninformed, and I fear our little voices come across as a foil hat rant.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on October 04, 2015, 04:15:37 PM
I think the logic of putting in a loading screen message is more like "See this fake Rolex you bought? It's actually stolen."
I do believe that some people would be influenced by that.
Maybe I'm just too cynical on this point, but I see two dumb flaws with this. First, the unknowing public quite likely won't find out about the disclaimer until after they have already bought and played the game.
The second flaw I see? I honestly don't believe that people buy these games to play them. They are merely shelf ornamentation to show how collectard-y the owners are. I would be super interested in statistics of how many people actually played the games they bought/were given by Tobias.
Dracula X potentially being the sole exception, here as it's a well known game with a good reputation and people actually want to play it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ClodBuster on October 04, 2015, 06:12:39 PM
Judging by how many you tubers and bloggers do play and advertise these games, but are completely oblivious to their shady roots, perhaps they would second guess promoting the product, of at least relay the info to their audience.
I do think the media needs to play a larger role in this knowledge transmission. People are uninformed, and I fear our little voices come across as a foil hat rant.
I think you made a good point.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: TheOldMan on October 04, 2015, 07:09:40 PM
Quote
Maybe I'm just too cynical on this point, but I see two dumb flaws with this. First, the unknowing public quite likely won't find out about the disclaimer until after they have already bought and played the game.
At which point, someone will post a video on you-tube, and everyone else will know. We hope.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: deubeul on October 05, 2015, 08:03:33 AM
I do think the media needs to play a larger role in this knowledge transmission. People are uninformed, and I fear our little voices come across as a foil hat rant.
Yes, but who are the media today? Professional journalists?
Or just gamers/collectards whom only deontology is to please and heighten their followers giving them what they want? And get free games in the process?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on October 05, 2015, 08:33:14 AM
I do think the media needs to play a larger role in this knowledge transmission. People are uninformed, and I fear our little voices come across as a foil hat rant.
Yes, but who are the media today? Professional journalists?
Or just gamers/collectards whom only deontology is to please and heighten their followers giving them what they want? And get free games in the process?
THEY BEEN BOUGHT IN FULL WITH PROMOTIONAL FREEBIES FROM BOOTLEGGERS!!!!! ZOMG GAMERGATE CORRUPTION!!!!!! :P
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on October 05, 2015, 10:10:46 AM
It's about ethics in obey game translations
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on October 23, 2015, 12:09:10 PM
Just two tidbits to add to this thread, for the sake of keeping it alive and updated with content.
One is this ironic quote from Tobias:
Quote
I'm not really a gamer anymore, I've been at that for 30 years now and my backlog is growing and growing. I haven't even finished (most of) the NES and PC Engine games yet which I bought back then.
Not bumping to stir up more drama or anything, but mainly just an effort to keep things chronicled concerning all things Tobias.
No, that's fine, I wanted this a while back actually since the links Tobias had posted with his account here had all but expired and some people wanted specific evidence of "Sapphire-Gate" - this was a piece of it and was previously unavailable until now.
Did you get this with the Wayback Internet archive perhaps?
Looking at it, I think I see what he did... Assuming he didn't fake it, he just falsely used it as cover to pretend the Sapphire CDs that he himself had just paid to press fell under Hudson's bad batches... So by contacting them, and somehow causing them to reveal this, he figured he could now use it as cover and tell people that the imperfections of his bootlegs were apart of Hudson's bad batches that he got a hold of that didn't get recalled, something like that. Bottomline, he used it to provide him cover for his fakes which he himself paid a CD plant to press.
So now, I'm not sure we can call that document a forgery. Could be legit. But we know for sure how he falsely manipulated/misled the public with it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on October 23, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
Nah its def a photoshop. Something I did not look at real close before, mainly because years back I had much lower res monitors, but the text and logos and stuff pop off the paper, as in they are not on it. None of the folds and creases effect them or their geometry or detail in any sort of way. Oddly enough I still had it from when I inquired about it to Hudson years back. A copy was in my Comcast sent mail from Oct. 2005. I don't have their reply back anymore though, nor the reply I got back from Care4Data..
I will speculate though that it is possible Tobias did try what you said, but that Hudson did not send him the response he needed, so he had to forge something.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on October 23, 2015, 02:54:17 PM
Nah its def a photoshop. Something I did not look at real close before, mainly because years back I had much lower res monitors, but the text and logos and stuff pop off the paper, as in they are not on it. None of the folds and creases effect them or their geometry or detail in any sort of way. Oddly enough I still had it from when I inquired about it to Hudson years back. A copy was in my Comcast sent mail from Oct. 2005. I don't have their reply back anymore though, nor the reply I got back from Care4Data..
I will speculate though that it is possible Tobias did try what you said, but that Hudson did not send him the response he needed, so he had to forge something.
I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty. :P
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on October 23, 2015, 03:04:08 PM
I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty. :P
You dont have to be, all you need to do is realize that none of the text or logos or anything bends in any sort of way, even though the paper has lots of bends and creases, and there is no crease marks going through any text that overlaps one of the crease marks.
EDIT: I should mention this too. He blurs out the supposed Hudson contacts name/info, as well as the number to the head office. I get why he did his own, but there would have been no reason to do this, unless he was concerned that someone would have checked up and confirmed this was an actual letter. In this case the name probably would have been confirmed as fake if someone who actually spoke Japanese called and made in inquire, so the lie would not have lasted so long. Blurring out the fake name bought him time.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: NightWolve on October 23, 2015, 03:13:38 PM
I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty. :P
You dont have to be, all you need to do is realize that none of the text or logos or anything bends in any sort of way, even though the paper has lots of bends and creases, and there is no crease marks going through any text.
Aaaah, you're right, I see it now!! I had to download the image so I could zoom in and look at it more closely/carefully. He tried to use a folded paper for authenticity, but things like that Hudson Bee logo on the upper left were added over where clearly the paper is crinkled a bit, yet the image is unaffacted which means it was added after this paper was scanned...
Wow, what a douchebag... So I think the charge of forgery stands in furtherance of his con job back then...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Mathius on October 23, 2015, 03:17:05 PM
Wow...very incriminating.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on October 23, 2015, 03:32:16 PM
I for one can't tell if it's fake or real. Then again, spotting forgeries isn't my specialty. :P
You dont have to be, all you need to do is realize that none of the text or logos or anything bends in any sort of way, even though the paper has lots of bends and creases, and there is no crease marks going through any text that overlaps one of the crease marks.
EDIT: I should mention this too. He blurs out the supposed Hudson contacts name/info, as well as the number to the head office. I get why he did his own, but there would have been no reason to do this, unless he was concerned that someone would have checked up and confirmed this was an actual letter. In this case the name probably would have been confirmed as fake if someone who actually spoke Japanese called and made in inquire, so the lie would not have lasted so long. Blurring out the fake name bought him time.
I could have my brother call that office up if it still existed. He lives over there in Japan and speaks almost flawless Japanese... Yeah I see what you mean now, had to download it myself to see these imperfections..
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on October 23, 2015, 04:35:57 PM
It wouldn't exist anymore. Hudson was bought out and dismantled by Konami. Moot anyway, obvious fake is obviously fake.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Joe Redifer on October 25, 2015, 09:00:45 AM
Also I would be surprised if Hudson would actually use the word "though". That just doesn't sound like something that fits in with the rest of the sentence structure which is struggling to be English. "Though" is too casual a word IMO. I think it would not have been in there at all and it would have fit better if it weren't.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: jtucci31 on October 25, 2015, 09:02:41 AM
Also I would be surprised if Hudson would actually use the word "though". That just doesn't sound like something that fits in with the rest of the sentence structure which is struggling to be English. "Though" is too casual a word IMO. I think it would not have been in there at all and it would have fit better if it weren't.
The word "weird" stuck out to me more. Seemed very informal for a company to use that word.
Title: Tobias [PCEWorks] and the making of "Sapphire-Gate..." ;)
Post by: NightWolve on October 25, 2015, 11:37:38 AM
Source: http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/ And also this, as I am not sure if it has been posted elsewhere (the letter from Hudson that Tobias faked): (https://s5.postimg.cc/6am9y1icn/Tobias_Forged_Hudson_Document.jpg)
Also I would be surprised if Hudson would actually use the word "though". That just doesn't sound like something that fits in with the rest of the sentence structure which is struggling to be English. "Though" is too casual a word IMO. I think it would not have been in there at all and it would have fit better if it weren't.
The word "weird" stuck out to me more. Seemed very informal for a company to use that word.
Yeah, that's another thing that sticks out. He tried to make it sound Engrishy, but then slips up by throwing a term like 'weird' in there... I'd be pretty upset if I got duped enough by something as shoddy as this years ago and bought his bootlegs thinking they were real as a result!
I can better see now how he set this con-job up - it went something like this: [uldecimal][li]He watched for years how Sapphire CDs went through the eBay madness of big-spending nuts throwing hundreds of dollars at it! Sapphire was one of the first PC Engine games to experience this. So naturally, he wanted to cash in and that's how he picked his first game to bootleg/press, eBay picked it for him! [/li][li]He decided he wanted to create matching counterfeits to pass as originals for 2 reasons: a) originals in principle fetch more money than admitted fakes/counterfeits/bootlegs/etc., and b) he wanted to be able to phish for suckers with eBay which is an effective instrument in finding big-spending nutjobs all around the world. However, to evade their anti-counterfeit policies and not see any sales or auction listings shut down, he'd need to sell his lie for that reason too! [/li][li]So the scheme is set, locked and loaded. He finds a CD pressing plant to make his counterfeits... but there's a snag in the plan. When his order arrives, he sees that the coloring on the CD labeling is off, mistakes were made, etc. and so they don't quite perfectly match... Somebody might discover there's quite a difference versus the originals (http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/sapcomp1.html)... What to do ?? [/li][li]Given points 1 to 3, he would need a believable cover story to sell the lie that this new batch of Sapphires were originals even despite imperfections/differences... So he decided to forge a letter by Hudson where he pretended to have sent one copy from this "newly discovered batch in some warehouse" of his for verification of authenticity by Hudson themselves.
This forged letter is written to sell a story that he actually mailed a copy from his batch to Hudson, they looked at it for him, saw nothing "weird" about it, mentioned how it could be apart of failed productions that were recalled at some point, etc. and they then mailed it back to him! With this, he floats the possibility that what he has are NOT bootlegs, but merely poorly produced authentic copies that were recalled until someone discovered them sitting somewhere and decided to sell rather than destroy them and what not and that Hudson actually looked at a copy for him and didn't find anything particularly wrong...[/li][/ul] And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen...
The making of "Sapphire-Gate..." :)
So, I think that pieces it together for clarity. Jimmy Hapa, one of the Youtube personalities, had asked me for links, evidence, something more verifiable to really prove the case that Tobias was a lying fraudster. I did provide links to the 'fudoh' account, but yeah, this forged document was unavailable at the time so it could be useful for others in the future.
You do sometimes need to provide rock-solid evidence for some people who'll treat the matter as a judicial session and demand you act as an organized prosecutor, have all your links, facts, source quotes, etc. on demand, and all in order, etc.! ;) Anywhere that doubt can be cast, they'll seize upon if they really don't want to believe or accept it.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SamIAm on October 25, 2015, 02:16:38 PM
I've been helping dozens...maybe hundreds...of Japanese adults of all levels try to render English for the past six years now. I've also worked as the only foreigner in a Japanese company for the past two, and I see business documents all the time.
If that letter was written by a Japanese person, I'll eat my hat.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on October 25, 2015, 05:34:28 PM
Yeah had I known people actually wanted to see the letter again I'd have looked for it and posted it prior. I didn't realize it was wiped off the net, but then again, reading that it was doesn't surprise me.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on May 18, 2017, 11:23:18 AM
Looks like Tobias has actually had the balls to restock the Xak III and SO II translations, and start selling them again ...
https://pceworks.wordpress.com/availability/
I guess this that this means that the leopard really hasn't changed his spots. [-X
Ahhhh ... fr*k! ](*,)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: geise on May 18, 2017, 03:02:19 PM
...but he gave away all those pressed discs...
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Punch on May 18, 2017, 04:25:17 PM
Pressed Disc giveaway round two is about to start. Tobias must offer tribute to his PCEFX overlords.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on May 18, 2017, 07:52:48 PM
Are you surprised? He's doing it for the love of it!
And by "it" he means "money".
Yes, actually, I am a bit surprised. Stupid me! #-o
Sure, he's an absolute money-grubbing bastidge, but I was dumb enough to think that he'd learned his lesson from the outcry over his last duplication of translations against the wishes of their authors ... and he even said that he wasn't going to repro (at least those) translations again.
He's already found the way to neuter translator's complaints ... just give away the translations for free, but charge for the original Japanese versions (with a nice space in the package for the translation).
But, he seems to have stopped his "free for shipping" disc-only giveaways, and games are now "free with purchase" ... i.e. not-free at all.
It's such an unnecessary thing for him to do. He's already making plenty of money from his collections and "specials" from idiots that want shelf-candy and who believe that spending money and having "stuff" makes them important.
Which is, I suppose, the point ... those are the kind of ass-hats that want the English translations inside the sealed package so the whole thing remains pure and pristine and can be "graded".
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on May 19, 2017, 12:03:36 PM
but I was dumb enough to think that he'd learned his lesson from the outcry over his last duplication of translations against the wishes of their authors ... and he even said that he wasn't going to repro (at least those) translations again.
At least you backpedaled on thinking he'd learned his lesson. Basically everyone else wants to touch him inappropriately and high five him now.
Quote
It's such an unnecessary thing for him to do. He's already making plenty of money from his collections and "specials" from idiots that want shelf-candy and who believe that spending money and having "stuff" makes them important.
You mean *dumbf*cks, maybe.
lol.
This is all a shitshow.
like 90 hippos doing that ass-spray thing all at once while we've got our mouths open.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: crazydean on May 20, 2017, 08:52:46 PM
So I finally decided to look up this MC bundle...huh...that's it? I'm gonna go to the print shop and see what I can put the Magical Chase cover art on. Mugs? Mouse pads? T-shirts? I can charge whatever I want and idiots still buy it! What are we all waiting for?
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on May 20, 2017, 09:17:47 PM
So I finally decided to look up this MC bundle...huh...that's it? I'm gonna go to the print shop and see what I can put the Magical Chase cover art on. Mugs? Mouse pads? T-shirts? I can charge whatever I want and idiots still buy it! What are we all waiting for?
initially, other people were going to do TobiasStuff(TM) and not be dicks about it...
but I guess it became easier to just supply/work with him.
If you do alternatives for not-moron prices, that'd be coo.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on May 25, 2017, 08:11:11 AM
Looks like Tobias has actually had the balls to restock the Xak III and SO II translations, and start selling them again ...
Ahhhh ... fr*k! ](*,)
I'm sure you've thought about it at least a bit so I'll go ahead and ask. Would reproductions for profit stop you from further translation works?
I didn't want to reply to this too quickly, and take some time to calm down.
I think that the answer has to be "yes".
I could either continue helping the homebrew scene here, or just move on and help with translations or development in the X68000 or PC98 communities.
I've had an unused X68000 sitting beside my desk for over a year now, waiting for some attention, because I've been busy with LoX and the PCE.
The LoX dubs have attracted the attention of professional VO talent, who I really wouldn't expect to touch this kind of non-paying work with a barge-pole.
Something about this project has drawn people out, and taken it far beyond the level that I would have expected possible from a "fan-dub".
Like me, they're expecting that they are giving away their time and skills for a good cause, in a charitable act, to help make something good ... and not for some greedy ass to make money off of. The dub itself will be released under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial-Use license.
If PCEWorks rips off their work, and Tobias starts selling it at his usual high prices, or pulls his other little trick of not-technically but definitely-practically selling it ... and then stupid YouTube "celebs" start praising those ripoffs (which they would), then how on earth could I look at those actors/actresses in the face afterwards, or ever ask them to participate in anything else ever again.
I love the PCE-CD, but if that happened, I'd just rather spend my time doing something else.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on May 25, 2017, 08:32:30 AM
Some of you translator peeps have odd priorities.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Tw3ek on May 25, 2017, 08:48:56 AM
I don't think it's odd priorities as much as it is you don't want to put all your time and effort into something only to have it immediately stolen and making someone else a boatload of money. Stuff like that, especially for things like RPGs takes an incredible amount of time, so for someone to rip it off right away is maddening.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on May 25, 2017, 09:13:38 AM
I believe necro was ribbing on Elmer for the pc98 and x68000 love. :lol:
That's definitely part of it, but it's also that they (elmer's not the first to say such things) are more worried about the few people that would buy/sell translations than the vast majority, those that truly appreciate the work that goes into them and will tell Tobias (et al) to get f*cked. So who exactly are they making the translations for? It can't be for themselves or the 'good guys', not primarily anyway.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on May 25, 2017, 09:25:39 AM
If people who translate 20 year old video games for free had normal priorities they wouldn't be doing that sort of thing in the first place.
I agree that it shouldn't matter what some a$$hole does with the patch, it has zero affect on those it was intended for, but it's hard to accept that when it's your work.
I suppose we could just produce decent bootlegs of it ourselves for like $6 a piece or whatever and...see what happens...see what excuses noobs come up with to keep buying Tobias's shit.
It wouldn't have to come with Adol's silver cock ring or whatever, just a CD in a case with art.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on May 25, 2017, 10:29:18 AM
I can't say that I would blame you if someone stealing your work and selling it for personal gain would dissuade you from continuing. The way I see it, it's less about everyone buying them and more about the one guy selling them.
Also, there are possibly more legal ramifications if something is being sold than something is merely available for free but I'm no lawyer so I wouldn't know anything about that.
Title: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on May 25, 2017, 10:32:15 AM
If people who translate 20 year old video games for free had normal priorities they wouldn't be doing that sort of thing in the first place.
I agree that it shouldn't matter what some a$$hole does with the patch, it has zero affect on those it was intended for, but it's hard to accept that when it's your work.
I suppose we could just produce decent bootlegs of it ourselves for like $6 a piece or whatever and...see what happens...see what excuses noobs come up with to keep buying Tobias's shit.
It wouldn't have to come with Adol's silver cock ring or whatever, just a CD in a case with art.
I have no interest in Adol's cock ring, but anal beads are a different story.
I think we could still hit the $6-8 price point for CD+case+inserts+anal beads (as long as folks don't object to me recycling my used anal beads).
Obviously, we'll claim that a string of Roda Nuts were the inspiration for the tchotchke.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: xelement5x on May 25, 2017, 10:37:46 AM
I can easily see the frustration though, you work years on something and pour your heart into it to share something you enjoy with others, and what happens except some tool turns around takes the whole thing slaps it in a shiny packages and starts making money off it.
If you release something intentionally with the hope that it not be distributed a certain way and it still happens then why shouldn't you be upset. The people who supposedly value your work apparently don't appreciate it enough to listen to your desire for how it should be distributed free of charge and without being printed.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: TheOldMan on May 25, 2017, 07:03:49 PM
Quote
The dub itself will be released under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial-Use license.
Talk to a lawyer. If he sells copies, that is against the licensing terms, and a cease and desist can be sent - both to him and wherever he's selling it. Also lock-down the terms of use for all the voice tracks; if everyone agrees to give you the rights, you can start a coyright suit for the audio (which he has no rights to)
Not that that will stop him.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on May 26, 2017, 05:41:04 AM
I suppose we could just produce decent bootlegs of it ourselves for like $6 a piece or whatever and...see what happens...see what excuses noobs come up with to keep buying Tobias's shit.
I believe that SamIAm and I have already talked about that in other threads, and are in agreement that it's something that we'd really prefer not happen ... and it wouldn't have any effect on what Tobias chooses to do, anyway.
Really, I shouldn't have brought this up now ... it's just a huge downer at a time when I should be concentrating on the dub.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Keith Courage on May 27, 2017, 07:55:42 AM
I'm not a programmer so completely understandable if this would be a pain in the ass. I've always wondered how difficult it would be to add a disclaimer screen to the intro of any fan translated game saying that if you've paid for this translation then you've been hosed.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: elmer on May 27, 2017, 09:17:12 AM
I'm not a programmer so completely understandable if this would be a pain in the ass. I've always wondered how difficult it would be to add a disclaimer screen to the intro of any fan translated game saying that if you've paid for this translation then you've been hosed.
It would be a huge technical PITA to do it in a way that would make it difficult to remove ... but it's possible.
The thing is, it would be not only ugly, but also rather pointless, since Tobias has already figured out how to neuter that strategy.
He just has to sell customers reproductions of the original Japanese games, and then optionally allow them to add a "free" copy of the English translation to their purchase, as an act of pure generosity on his part.
The end-result is the same ... he's basically charged people for English translation, but it's been done in a round about way that purchasers would feel good about ... probably even a lot of people here.
It would also technically get around any licensing restrictions for the dub ... or there would at-least be a good argument to make that it does, that would require expensive legal battles to litigate.
He knows this, and he already did it with Dracula X.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gypsy on May 27, 2017, 12:29:54 PM
The end-result is the same ... he's basically charged people for English translation, but it's been done in a round about way that purchasers would feel good about ... probably even a lot of people here.
It would also technically get around any licensing restrictions for the dub ... or there would at-least be a good argument to make that it does, that would require expensive legal battles to litigate.
He knows this, and he already did it with Dracula X.
I wouldn't feel good about giving Tobias one damn cent. Of course, I speak only for myself.
Anyway, I will also add, I totally appreciate the awesome work you, Sam and anyone else involved are doing here. I look forward to playing these games. \m/
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Johnpv on May 27, 2017, 06:05:02 PM
I will say this if you guys decided to have your own copies pressed I would gladly support it. I guess the point is that I would not have an issue with throwing money your guys way for what you've done. There's so many awesome games that did not come to our shores that I would love to play.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: esteban on May 27, 2017, 10:59:09 PM
I will say this if you guys decided to have your own copies pressed I would gladly support it. I guess the point is that I would not have an issue with throwing money your guys way for what you've done. There's so many awesome games that did not come to our shores that I would love to play.
It shouldn't surprise you that most of the folks who work on translations/dubs do *not* want to be involved in any scheme that prints/presses/mints physical copies, let alone charges any money for *anything* (even charging for shipping would soil the entire endeavor).
The motives must be unrelentingly non-profit, otherwise, they wouldn't have committed to the translation/dub in the first place.
This is why Tobias (and his ilk) are such opportunistic, parasitical douchebags—his actions only help collectards who want a trophy (now!), whilst demoralizing the few folks who have the skills, time and desire to pursue future PCE projects.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: seieienbu on May 28, 2017, 08:07:06 AM
This is why Tobias (and his ilk) are such opportunistic, parasitical douchebags—his actions only help collectards who want a trophy (now!), whilst demoralizing the few folks who have the skills, time and desire to pursue future PCE projects.
This is the crux of the matter imo. I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English. The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate. The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches. Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever. When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.
If Tobias wasn't self serving but was actually doing this for the love of PCE he would see that making a profit now means fewer translations later.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: sirhcman on May 28, 2017, 01:54:26 PM
This is the crux of the matter imo. I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English. The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate. The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches. Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever. When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.
What about all the SNES repros being sold on etsy, aliexpress, ebay, conventions with translations? Surely these sellers aren't kicking bucks back to the translators either.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gypsy on May 28, 2017, 02:54:49 PM
This is the crux of the matter imo. I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English. The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate. The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches. Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever. When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.
What about all the SNES repros being sold on etsy, aliexpress, ebay, conventions with translations? Surely these sellers aren't kicking bucks back to the translators either.
They are pieces of shit just like Tobias.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: sirhcman on May 28, 2017, 02:58:55 PM
This is the crux of the matter imo. I've had games for 20 years that I would like to one day see in English. The PC Engine isn't exactly the SNES over here with fan groups champing at the bit to find something new to translate. The top tier SNES stuff was finished ages ago and now random stuff gets English translation patches. Meanwhile fantastic PC Engine games go untranslated forever. When people do step up their works get marginalized by a profiteering jerk ending in people being potentially less interested in continuing work on the platform.
What about all the SNES repros being sold on etsy, aliexpress, ebay, conventions with translations? Surely these sellers aren't kicking bucks back to the translators either.
They are pieces of shit just like Tobias.
The point I was trying to make was that it hasn't stopped translators from continuing to translate SNES games
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Black Tiger on May 28, 2017, 04:36:51 PM
When the ratio of Nintendo game translation teams to PC Engine translation teams is 100 to 1, the fact that any have reconsidered new projects because of what some people done with them... it's the equivalent of the entire active PCE translation scene giving up.
We already know some of the damage PCEWorks has done.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Phase on November 14, 2017, 11:32:47 AM
Edit: Ignore
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: EmperorIng on November 14, 2017, 11:41:01 AM
You can point out bullshit and make fun of people who spend premium money for printed-discs with fan translations, but you're not going to stop those poor saps who have a fetish for plastic and cardboard. Sometimes it's better to laugh at the fool parting with his money - especially if it's a mega-swindle like the epic saga neo-geo's Aero Fighters 3 Debacle.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Phase on November 14, 2017, 11:51:47 AM
Thanks for the advise EmperorIng. :) Yeah I may just not bother with a response on there.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: turboswimbz on November 14, 2017, 12:30:05 PM
You can point out bullshit and make fun of people who spend premium money for printed-discs with fan translations, but you're not going to stop those poor saps who have a fetish for plastic and cardboard. Sometimes it's better to laugh at the fool parting with his money - especially if it's a mega-swindle like the epic saga neo-geo's Aero Fighters 3 Debacle.
I remember that. They even tricked international gaming mags into running the bogus story. I love my AES but I stay far away from that community. Every time I went to NG.com bitd it felt like I was walking into a seedy bar from any 80s action movie. You know the kind; full of eye patch wearing, cigar smoking martial arts thugs. :P
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: turboswimbz on November 14, 2017, 12:57:15 PM
Looks like inkjet covers and cdr discs. Makes Tobias' products seem like a good deal by comparison.
Yeah, but a few that he "updated" look better maybe, I can't tell much from my computer screen. I assume they are CDRs. and as far as value if your getting repo shit might as well get cheap shit. serves you right.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: SignOfZeta on November 14, 2017, 01:10:42 PM
You can point out bullshit and make fun of people who spend premium money for printed-discs with fan translations, but you're not going to stop those poor saps who have a fetish for plastic and cardboard. Sometimes it's better to laugh at the fool parting with his money - especially if it's a mega-swindle like the epic saga neo-geo's Aero Fighters 3 Debacle.
I remember that. They even tricked international gaming mags into running the bogus story. I love my AES but I stay far away from that community. Every time I went to NG.com bitd it felt like I was walking into a seedy bar from any 80s action movie. You know the kind; full of eye patch wearing, cigar smoking martial arts thugs. :P
If you think that’s bad, keep in mind that NG.com is (mostly) the good guys! It’s very rare for a massive scam like that to come from a trusted forum member (as it did with AF3). Usually they are setting the record straaight and busting suckers.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Mathius on November 14, 2017, 01:42:55 PM
You can point out bullshit and make fun of people who spend premium money for printed-discs with fan translations, but you're not going to stop those poor saps who have a fetish for plastic and cardboard. Sometimes it's better to laugh at the fool parting with his money - especially if it's a mega-swindle like the epic saga neo-geo's Aero Fighters 3 Debacle.
I remember that. They even tricked international gaming mags into running the bogus story. I love my AES but I stay far away from that community. Every time I went to NG.com bitd it felt like I was walking into a seedy bar from any 80s action movie. You know the kind; full of eye patch wearing, cigar smoking martial arts thugs. :P
If you think that’s bad, keep in mind that NG.com is (mostly) the good guys! It’s very rare for a massive scam like that to come from a trusted forum member (as it did with AF3). Usually they are setting the record straaight and busting suckers.
I hope your right. The more I spent there back then the more the vibe changed. Of course, it could've just been my over-sensitivity to that kind of stuff. :)
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Necromancer on November 15, 2017, 01:27:01 AM
I don't have any but I've seen the site before. $20 seems high for a full manual and good print quality, and I'm not sure he's delivering on either.
LOL i believe a bunch of them don't have manuals. But I've seen that Dynastic hero back reused to try to pass off a DH as real. only reason I was wondering about them and if they were actually any good.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on November 15, 2017, 12:38:46 PM
They're like any other repro. high price for low effort.
Used for shelf fodder collector's high placebo effects by people who don't know how to burn a CD, or use Kinko's Online services.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gredler on November 16, 2017, 04:41:16 AM
I'm pretty sure that he's talking about the manuals...
^^^^^^^^^^^^
The repros were currently talking about are some other dude making CD-Rs with corny print jobs.
AKA: Stuff you could do yourself for basically nothing.
Kinkos will print and cut a PDF of a manual for hardly anything. They'll even staple it.
I cringe when people pay 20$+ for someone else to burn a CD and jankily print stuff off. It's a little different when there's some sort of perk or something, like those Electrohaze remasters where he did SOMETHING aside from copy a disc.
Nobody in 2017 should be paying 20$ for someone else to burn a f*ckin CD-R and print like 1$ worth of stuff unless they like, don't own a CD-Burner (wtf), or have no way to get to Kinkos.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Keith Courage on November 20, 2017, 12:20:21 PM
I've just gotten used to the idea that we will most likely never see anymore CD game translations because of Tobias stealing translations. It sucks, but it is what it is. Doubt he will stop anytime soon unless there is some legal recourse that can be taken. I'm perfectly fine with him making and selling repros to whoever may want them but steeling translated works for money is just downright wrong.
I wonder if we will not be seeing future translated HU card games as well because of the repro Hu cards some other people are making now. I've seen a few translated ones floating around.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Arkhan on November 20, 2017, 03:23:03 PM
Yeah, he might stop if pieces of shit quit supporting him.
but, that ain't happening because people are stupid.
Title: Re: That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!
Post by: Gypsy on November 23, 2017, 04:07:48 AM