.pce version download is HERE (http://www.pcenginefx.com/temp/Lorde_-_Team_(by_Windcharger).pce).
I'm also working on a PC app (seen below) where you will be able to preview dozens (if not hundreds) of combinations of waveforms & envelopes. Screenshot of WIP app below:
Our goal is to help spread the word about Squirrel, at the same time make it even easier for people to get into making MML music - more to come!
Title: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: esteban on June 17, 2015, 10:05:16 PM
Splendid :)
Also, image link is broken :(
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: touko on June 18, 2015, 01:03:33 AM
Excellent, it should help some guys like me . Thanks ..
Mooz on necstasy forum is finishing his deflemask vgm to pce converter ,it allow to convert deflemask vgm musics for pce which are too big, into native pce format .
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Pcenginefx on June 18, 2015, 03:25:36 AM
Image fixed!
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Arkhan on June 18, 2015, 06:55:24 AM
Well, this is a cute surprise!
VIVA LA SQUIRREL!
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Dicer on June 18, 2015, 07:34:34 AM
Do you take requests?
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: sunteam_paul on June 18, 2015, 07:44:34 AM
Any chance of a .pce download?
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on June 18, 2015, 05:48:51 PM
Hello everyone! I'm glad everyone seems to be enjoying my rendition of Team. :D
I would say that a .pce release is likely in the not too distant future, and it will be hosted on Pcenginefx.com, so stay tuned. :wink:
Also, unfortunately I'm not taking requests at this time as I barely have any time at all currently. (Well, that and I'm still learning how to better use Squirrel 3.0 <coughdrumscough> to maximize the PCE's audio capabilities.) In the future though, perhaps... :)
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Pcenginefx on June 18, 2015, 06:07:12 PM
Windcharger is for sure ahead of me in making a song, but I too am still trying to get a full song done (so far trying out a LoT song). Not sure what I'll do next....was thinking some Streets of Rage hehe....
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Dicer on June 19, 2015, 03:33:42 AM
Windcharger is for sure ahead of me in making a song, but I too am still trying to get a full song done (so far trying out a LoT song). Not sure what I'll do next....was thinking some Streets of Rage hehe....
Would love to hear this pumping outta my PCE
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on June 19, 2015, 08:05:59 AM
Oh wow, I forgot this existed! Been years since I had heard it...
That would actually be pretty cool. At least in the mean time we have this :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCSgMg7hQGM
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Dicer on June 19, 2015, 03:33:18 PM
Oh wow, I forgot this existed! Been years since I had heard it...
That would actually be pretty cool. At least in the mean time we have this :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCSgMg7hQGM
How in the f*ck did that pass under my radar this entire time?
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on June 19, 2015, 07:48:13 PM
Quote
How in the f*ck did that pass under my radar this entire time?
Probably because the Super Famicom version of this game has a completely different OST, and the USA Activision ROM is a lot less common. It's actually an interesting game (I rather like the "G.A.M." weapon system mechanic) that also unfortunately wastes some of its potential. I remember picking this one up back in the day, and have been quite pleased with it ever since being one of the somewhat few SNES shooters... and I gotta have my shooters. :)
I think I really would like to hear the PCE's take on this though. :-k
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Dicer on June 20, 2015, 03:11:44 PM
How in the f*ck did that pass under my radar this entire time?
Probably because the Super Famicom version of this game has a completely different OST, and the USA Activision ROM is a lot less common. It's actually an interesting game (I rather like the "G.A.M." weapon system mechanic) that also unfortunately wastes some of its potential. I remember picking this one up back in the day, and have been quite pleased with it ever since being one of the somewhat few SNES shooters... and I gotta have my shooters. :)
I think I really would like to hear the PCE's take on this though. :-k
Maybe I will get my request after all, woo...
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: BigusSchmuck on June 24, 2015, 10:02:57 AM
Rick Roll on the PCE? No way...
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Ninja Spirit on June 25, 2015, 03:24:39 AM
All these years I still want the PCE Salamander sound engine! Still unsuccessful at finding it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYBXAfFJ2BE
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on June 28, 2015, 05:23:29 PM
Wow, that version of An Empty Tome is pretty awesome! Definitely has the Salamander sampled drums going on. The rest of the channels shouldn't be terribly difficult to mimic by sounding them out though. Now if only I could figure out samples in Squirrel... :-k
My next project is actually game related, and is well underway! :D
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Pcenginefx on July 09, 2015, 06:19:10 PM
Presenting the .pce of Windcharger's Lorde "Team" MML composition (http://www.pcenginefx.com/temp/Lorde_-_Team_(by_Windcharger).pce). Enjoy.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Pcenginefx on July 21, 2015, 02:33:58 PM
Presenting the 2nd TG-16/PCE Arrangement from Windcharger!
"Cyclical Rampage" (Yo-yo Man level music) from Mega Man Unlimited MML composition by Jeremiah Kenworthy Converted to the PC Engine via Squirrel 3.0 (www.aetherbyte.com (http://www.aetherbyte.com/))
Music Video: https://youtu.be/8_6yEudEb5Y
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: esteban on July 21, 2015, 02:46:16 PM
Presenting the 2nd TG-16/PCE Arrangement from Windcharger!
"Cyclical Rampage" (Yo-yo Man level music) from Mega Man Unlimited MML composition by Jeremiah Kenworthy Converted to the PC Engine via Squirrel 3.0 (www.aetherbyte.com (http://www.aetherbyte.com/))
Music Video: https://youtu.be/8_6yEudEb5Y
Das Gud.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on July 21, 2015, 03:45:27 PM
Quote
Das Gud.
Thank you kindly! :D
I'm actually already at work on the next one... Also a game cover... Perhaps something very familiar...? :-"
Title: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: esteban on July 22, 2015, 02:45:47 AM
I'm also working on a PC app (seen below) where you will be able to preview dozens (if not hundreds) of combinations of waveforms & envelopes. Screenshot of WIP app below:
Our goal is to help spread the word about Squirrel, at the same time make it even easier for people to get into making MML music - more to come!
The guy who I am trying to help me make some music keeps complaining that he has a hard time knowing what instruments will sound like, and I told him I'd look for something exactly like this and if I can't find it I'll look into making one. I invisioned a ROM that controlled in a way that allowed you to change sound properties and then press a button to play them.
Maybe up/down changed octave, left right changed note, and then select cycles through the envelopes, and start cycles through the pitches, then II plays the sound, and I plays it on loop or for a set(able) duration. The currently selected sound will be displayed so the user knows what mml code sounds like what.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: elmer on January 27, 2016, 02:08:45 PM
Have you seen this ... http://www.delek.com.ar/forum/deflemask/pc-engine-instruments-and-wavetables-pack!!/
I have not, thank you so much!! I have terrible Google-fu apparently, but thank you for providing something new to investigate! As always elmer, you are the man!
I signed up for the forums and jumped in the chat, thanks elmer!
They are super cool over there, and I was able to get an answer to our question on the chat there,
gredler [28|Jan 09:44 PM]: I actually signed up because I had some questions about using this tool to generate music for a PCE homebrew we are working on gredler [29|Jan 12:00 AM]: I am wondering if DefleMask can export to MML - or if there's a way to use the music in the HuC development environment Delek [29|Jan 12:01 AM]: No, you could process the .vgm file (register writes dump) gredler [29|Jan 12:03 AM]: "process the .vgm" - I am the pixel artist trying to help the muscician, so that is greek to me :P Delek [29|Jan 12:05 AM]: The musician wouldn't understand neither :P , tell what I said to the programmer. gredler [29|Jan 12:05 AM]: Alright, will do ahahah gredler [29|Jan 12:06 AM]: Basically my friend uses renoise to make tunes, and someone on the pcefx forum pointed me here when I posted that we were having issues using renoise gredler [29|Jan 12:06 AM]: because whatever we make in renoise is very difficult to get into huc Delek [29|Jan 12:09 AM]: The thing is that I don't know what HuC development environment is, but you should be fine by writing a simple routine to playback the .vgm files that the tracker could export. gredler [29|Jan 12:11 AM]: is that what the "rom builder" does? gredler [29|Jan 12:11 AM]: so we would just add similar code to our game that the rom builder is using Delek [29|Jan 12:11 AM]: That's exactly what the rom builder is doing. gredler [29|Jan 12:12 AM]: makes sense gredler [29|Jan 12:13 AM]: well this has been bad ass educational, and I will download this when I get home and see if I can make rhyme and reason out of it gredler [29|Jan 12:13 AM]: and encourage my musician friend to do the same :D gredler [29|Jan 12:13 AM]: thanks again for the rad site, and tools! Delek [29|Jan 12:13 AM]: You're welcome, please remember to get the v11.1 pre-release, it is way better than v11.0 gredler [29|Jan 12:15 AM]: bad ass, will do
I will poke around in deflemask, and ask DK, but this might not work for us :/ Squirrel and HuC seem to be inseparable hahah
I need to figure out a way for my friend to get a proper midi out of renoise so he can process it into mml to pair with squirrel.
Cabbage had a good idea in the DoxPhile chat today, which I am going to suggest to my friend: (18:14:57) gredler: cabbage - is there a easy way to know what each note and variant of that (octave, pitch, envelope) sound like? (18:14:59) cabbage: gredler having trouble with squirrel? (18:15:02) gredler: yeah (18:16:59) cabbage: the way i do it is convert each channel one at a time, mute all the other existing channels, and tweak the instrument/envelope until that channel sounds good (enough)
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: elmer on January 29, 2016, 03:55:37 AM
Delek [29|Jan 12:01 AM]: No, you could process the .vgm file (register writes dump) Delek [29|Jan 12:09 AM]: The thing is that I don't know what HuC development environment is, but you should be fine by writing a simple routine to playback the .vgm files that the tracker could export. gredler [29|Jan 12:11 AM]: is that what the "rom builder" does? Delek [29|Jan 12:11 AM]: That's exactly what the rom builder is doing.
I wondered how Delek was doing deflemask's the "ROM Builder" function for the PCE.
That approach makes a lot of sense for quickly providing "ROM Builder" capability for all the platforms that deflemask supports, but it is horribly wasteful of memory in terms of actually using deflemask for a real game.
Mooz's work on a playback library for deflemask is the best approach ... but I don't know how long that's going to take.
IMHO ... you're going to end up using Squirrel.
I was only pointing out the instruments as a source, and as a way to actual preview them.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Gredler on January 29, 2016, 05:46:47 AM
That approach makes a lot of sense for quickly providing "ROM Builder" capability for all the platforms that deflemask supports, but it is horribly wasteful of memory in terms of actually using deflemask for a real game.
Mooz's work on a playback library for deflemask is the best approach ... but I don't know how long that's going to take.
That's not surprising to hear, but I really appreciate the feedback as I was considering asking my friend to learn deflemask and then we just use the output for that to make the music and sfx.
I agree and think squirrel unavoidable if my friend does the music as he only really knows renoise, and needs to use something with midi input to make the music with his keyboard. He really wants to write the song using keyboard, then convert the midi he exports to mml, and then use squirrel - I don't think he wants to try to learn deflemask.
I was only pointing out the instruments as a source, and as a way to actual preview them.
That completely flew over my head, and I think that makes sense; use the chip 32 VST to create an instrument while using deflemask as a point of reference for what the sound will be like in squirrel. I also referred him to this video, as the instruments here match the documentation's descriptions. He should be able to listen to this video, pick the instrument # and define that in the channel definition while assymbling the mml - and while defining his chip 32 instrument.
Thanks for all of the help, this educates me enough to where I can make some tests and then train my friend on them :)
The current hurdle for the musician right now is getting the drum sounds to work correctly.
I started poking around and found a few good resources, and I wonder if these are viable?
HuSIC - a mml music compiler for PCE? I haven not looked into this at all yet, but sounds promissing and the people over at MML share suggest it. http://battleofthebits.org/lyceum/View/HuSIC/
This link also popped up in my searches for help: http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/790/pc-engineturbografx16-music-for-beginners/
from the thread about HuSIC and that tutorial: "ignore this tutorial, more easy ways to write pc engine music have arrived since i wrote this. use deflemask"
LOL
Squirrel it is, can't be helped :P
But right now I am just trying to figure out how to get percussion sounds in squerrel. Researching what "proper enveloping" means for the channel 5 and 6 @m1 instruments
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: spenoza on January 29, 2016, 01:54:46 PM
Wait, didn't Chris Covell or Arhkan or someone write a utility to create waveforms and envelopes and then play them to see how they sound? I can't remember where around here it is, but I know it existed. Could help figure out just what you want each instrument to be.
Wait, didn't Chris Covell or Arhkan or someone write a utility to create waveforms and envelopes and then play them to see how they sound? I can't remember where around here it is, but I know it existed. Could help figure out just what you want each instrument to be.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 14, 2016, 04:26:32 AM
SONG #3
Ok, ok... It has been a while. I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place. So, this means more new TG16/PCE music! :D My 3rd song listed below is one that I have been sitting on for over a year at ~90% completion, so I finally had to get this out there. You can also look forward to some new songs popping up in the pretty near future as I have a number of projects currently under way...
Ok, ok... It has been a while. I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place. So, this means more new TG16/PCE music! :D My 3rd song listed below is one that I have been sitting on for over a year at ~90% completion, so I finally had to get this out there. You can also look forward to some new songs popping up in the pretty near future as I have a number of projects currently under way...
Why thank you kindly! ...and don't worry, more is on the way! :wink:
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Necromancer on December 14, 2016, 07:45:04 AM
Yes, very nice. This is probably a dumb question, but would the game actually run fine with such a tune playing, or is it using up too many resources (either CPU speed or no sound channels left for sound effects)? Either way, it sounds sexy.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 14, 2016, 08:50:18 AM
Yes, very nice. This is probably a dumb question, but would the game actually run fine with such a tune playing, or is it using up too many resources (either CPU speed or no sound channels left for sound effects)? Either way, it sounds sexy.
Thank you Necromancer... :D
Regarding sound channels for sound effects, this song is using all 6 sound channels simultaneously, however it wouldn't be difficult at all to have an effect channel dynamically cut over one of the music channels that wouldn't be noticeably missed (like the 2nd 'stereo' bass channel or the "string like" harmony in the background) while a sound effect was playing. Granted the MML isn't currently ready for that as you would typically want sound effects on channels 5 & 6 for more percussive freedom, but that could also be accommodated easily enough with just a little tweaking. Of course there's always the (7th?) ADPCM channel on CD hardware for SFX. lol
On the CPU resource front, I wouldn't think it would be a problem at all. I'd be surprised if it was up to 30%, but I would have to hand that question over to Arkhan as that is just my speculation. After all, these are native tones that the Hu6280 can produce and not 'real' samples with most of the overhead probably going to the playback driver. It also didn't seem to be an issue with Atlantean (which I really need to order). :wink:
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: elmer on December 14, 2016, 01:09:42 PM
Ok, ok... It has been a while. I managed to get pretty busy for a while there, but I am now at my new place. So, this means more new TG16/PCE music!
Cool stuff! :)
Thanks Elmer! :)
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Arkhan on December 15, 2016, 04:09:32 PM
Megaman 2 would run *perfectly* fine with this song running.
There's less happening on screen in Megaman 2 than there is in Atlantean, and it runs fine until there's too much shit on screen because of all the damn parallax...
Though, MM2 also gets some slowdown at times, so, it should all be good. :D
:)
Also, SFX would be no problem.
I'm going to put this on the FBs for all the people to see.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Bonknuts on December 15, 2016, 04:43:42 PM
No rom?
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 15, 2016, 05:08:04 PM
I like everything about this track except the percussion. I care not for the drum sound, but the rest of it is tits.
I think the drums are fine, but the problem is, they're not the Capcom drums, which aren't even drums lol.
Capcom's songs always had those like
"bweoooo booweoooo" percussion noises. They had hi-hats, and those like, turbotoms or whatever you even want to call them lol.
You can do them on PCE. I'm actually doing that for the kick drums I use, but the pitch is super low instead of super high, so you don't get much except a deep thwoomp.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 16, 2016, 03:16:07 PM
Yeppers, there will be a ROM. Eventually we plan on having all of my songs downloadable from pcenginefx.com. :dance: Probably in the not too distant future too (i.e. early-ish next year).
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 16, 2016, 03:20:53 PM
I like everything about this track except the percussion. I care not for the drum sound, but the rest of it is tits.
Thank you! ...and I agree. The drums were the primary reason I was sitting on this one for so long (well, that and moving and busy with work and stuffs). I do kinda like what I am using for the quick snare, but I'm also using the louder snare a bass drum, and... err... yeah...... :-"
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 16, 2016, 03:42:49 PM
I think the drums are fine, but the problem is, they're not the Capcom drums, which aren't even drums lol.
Capcom's songs always had those like
"bweoooo booweoooo" percussion noises. They had hi-hats, and those like, turbotoms or whatever you even want to call them lol.
You can do them on PCE. I'm actually doing that for the kick drums I use, but the pitch is super low instead of super high, so you don't get much except a deep thwoomp.
And thank you for finding those tonal based kicks! (I think I used them to good effect in my rendition of Cyclical Rampage). Unfortunately the kick wasn't really lending itself to my bass drum in Dr Wily's Castle because the song was too fast for it to have its full beat completely audible, and the tonal nature of it also got a little lost in the background. I needed a quick/short and deep audible impact. (Alas, bass has always been the PCE's audio Achilles' heal). I do feel that I have a pretty good grasp of the drums (still working on it), but it takes time to find good drums with trial and error.
One thing I would like to grasp better however is how to change the pitch of the white noise component as most of what I am getting is rather dull/flat mid range white noise. With a higher pitch white noise I think I could even reasonably replicate cymbals (sort-of). I've been meaning to ask you some question about that actually...
BTW, for the Capcom percussion noises you mentioned above, are you referring to the triangle wave channel from the NES version? I've found @13 to be a pretty descent triangle substitute at lower octaves. I really need to start shaping the waves and using ADSR (everything I've done so far, minus some drums, has been default Squirrel) but at the moment I'm doing all of this in notepad on a netbook. lol
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Gredler on December 16, 2016, 06:15:12 PM
Are you not using the midi to mml conversion process for this? Super impressive stuff dude thanks for sharing and being in the community - a welcome and much needed addition!!
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 16, 2016, 08:43:12 PM
Are you not using the midi to mml conversion process for this? Super impressive stuff dude thanks for sharing and being in the community - a welcome and much needed addition!!
Thank you very much Gredler! Very kind of you. :D
If by "midi to mml conversion process" you mean looking at a midi score and typing out all of the mml manually one note at a time into notepad, then yes. :P
But seriously, since I just moved and haven't setup all of my equipment yet I'm pretty much stuck with my netbook, notepad, and a cellphone that has a 1.5 octave piano roll (which sucks for chords) to tweak and find notes. So yeah, not really encouraging anyone else to take this exact approach. lol But I've been doing it this way for a while now and haven't invested in anything like Fruity Loops yet, though I likely will in the future.
Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me :wink:) from 1995! I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.
Title: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: esteban on December 16, 2016, 10:08:13 PM
Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me :wink:) from 1995! I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.
Ok, that makes everything even better. :)
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Gredler on December 17, 2016, 11:04:38 AM
If by "midi to mml conversion process" you mean looking at a midi score and typing out all of the mml manually one note at a time into notepad, then yes. :P
Ahhh thanks, the only usable result I've been able to muster has also been through notepad as well, which Arkhan insists is madness.
In his tutorials and suggested workflow he uses 3MLE to convert a midi to MML then you copy and paste the MML code from 3MLE to your squirrel code, and then compile that as a rom. I've yet to successfully complete this process, and have had to rely on creating the music in MML by hand.
If I am not mistaken, his intention is for the artist to make a song in a program and export it as a midi, convert that midi to mml, then put that mll into squirrel code for a useable result. My friends and I have failed miserably at this, and Cabbage is the only guy besides Arkhan who've I've heard success from.
I was hoping you had success and could give us more info, because what you have shown us is manicured and glorious, but it was not as simple as export>convert>compile from the sounds of it.
Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me :wink:) from 1995! I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.
All the more bad ass! Nice work, and dedication! I found my grandpa's NEC win 3.1.1 / dos 4.0 lappy in the garage not too long ago, maybe I should try to ressurect it to make my art on to be more true to the craft :P Nah, I'll stick to windows 10 and PhotoShop CC - I CANT GO BAAAAACK!
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 17, 2016, 12:45:52 PM
Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me :wink:) from 1995! I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.
Ok, that makes everything even better. :)
Doesn't it though? :dance: lol Oh boy...
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 17, 2016, 01:44:40 PM
Ahhh thanks, the only usable result I've been able to muster has also been through notepad as well, which Arkhan insists is madness.
You are most welcome, and it is indeed madness, I just have near limitless patience and a penchant for tedious tasks. lol
Quote
In his tutorials and suggested workflow he uses 3MLE to convert a midi to MML then you copy and paste the MML code from 3MLE to your squirrel code, and then compile that as a rom. I've yet to successfully complete this process, and have had to rely on creating the music in MML by hand.
Though I haven't tried that yet, I'm pretty sure I could get it to work reasonable easily (for me anyway as I can both read music and code) because I know what I would be looking for in the MML if things got wonky. I just like building songs from the ground up one measure or channel at a time because it allows you to address any issues as you find them instead of hunting for them later. Definitely not an approach I would recommend for everyone though. However, a lot of what I do really is needlessly tedious, so in the not so distant future I'm sure I will be using some additional software (I'm looking at you Fruity Loops) to assist with certain things, and depending on how that goes I may code up a little parser to fix any issues (if any) I find common with that conversion process.
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If I am not mistaken, his intention is for the artist to make a song in a program and export it as a midi, convert that midi to mml, then put that mll into squirrel code for a useable result. My friends and I have failed miserably at this, and Cabbage is the only guy besides Arkhan who've I've heard success from.
I'm pretty sure that was and still is Arkhan's intention, and I have some thoughts on this...
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I was hoping you had success and could give us more info, because what you have shown us is manicured and glorious, but it was not as simple as export>convert>compile from the sounds of it.
Aww, thanks again. :) I'm sure I could still give plenty of info on this and would be happy to help out. Though I haven't done it yet, it sounds like the biggest issue is that the songs fall apart due to timing. When this happens it is important to do an audit of each measure in each channel (unless you can tell what the affected channel is by listening) and confirm it has the correct number of beats per whatever the time signature you are working with is. So, for 4/4 time (probably most common time signature) every measure has to have 4 beat counts per measure regardless of what types of notes are used. The devil is usually (but not always) in the rests. I can't tell you how many times I've left something as small as a 1/16th rest out and everything starts to fall apart. Of course my recommendation would always be to complete the composition/conversion prior to shifting the timing of channels around with rests for effects like echoing and such as well.
Fun fact: My current MIDI program came bundled with my NEC Ready 9022 Multi Media PC (the "Turbo" runs deep in me :wink:) from 1995! I'm using the Midisoft Recording Session v1.22 software (which is 16-bit software) for my MIDI needs atm.
All the more bad ass! Nice work, and dedication! I found my grandpa's NEC win 3.1.1 / dos 4.0 lappy in the garage not too long ago, maybe I should try to ressurect it to make my art on to be more true to the craft :P Nah, I'll stick to windows 10 and PhotoShop CC - I CANT GO BAAAAACK!
lol Thanks and I understand... Yeah, I got that machine as a Socket 5 Pentium 100Mhz with 8MB RAM, 1MB onboard video, OPL3 onboard audio, quad speed CD drive, and a 1GB HD. It's now a K6-2 400Mhz with 128MB RAM, 32MB PCI Kyro (Power VR FTW!) video card, Sound Blaster Live!, Mitsumi 8x CD-R, and 13.6GB HD. :D I actually still playfully consider it my 'main machine' as I use it so often. I'm also still sporting Adobe Photoshop v5 (even on my Windows 7 machines) because I'm just so used to it. Yeah, getting that to work on Win 7 was fun... :roll:
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: TheOldMan on December 17, 2016, 06:50:07 PM
Just out of curiosity, windcharger...
Are you using the new HuC?. The old Huc? Building for CD, or building for card? Is this actually intended for a game, or just for learning how to do it?
I can't speak to arkhans intent...but I do know he prefers to create the songs via midi (he can actually play a keyboard fairly well); the rest of it it is just his workflow to get it into an acceptable pce format. Does anybody know it 3mle (or whatever it is) can output the midi as text? If so, it would be fairly easy to write a filter that converts it to pce format.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Windcharger on December 17, 2016, 07:44:11 PM
Are you using the new HuC?. The old Huc? Building for CD, or building for card? Is this actually intended for a game, or just for learning how to do it?
Good question... According to the Squirrel compiler I'm using HuC v3.21, so the old one I assume, and I'm building for card for the time being. Right now I'm just messing around to get familiar with the hardware from a coding perspective as I have a great many lofty goals in the future for this system. While I'm pretty intimate with the capabilities of this hardware I lack much experience coding for it. And while my songs are not currently optimized for use in games, they could be made to be rather easily.
Oh, and I'd like to take this opportunity to formally thank you for your contributions to Squirrel as well!! :D
I can't speak to arkhans intent...but I do know he prefers to create the songs via midi (he can actually play a keyboard fairly well); the rest of it it is just his workflow to get it into an acceptable pce format.
Gotcha... Pretty neat. I'm a professional software engineer (and graphic designer) in real life but mostly use modern languages (Ruby, SQL, etc...) My music experience is mostly from playing clarinet in junior high and high school in concert and symphonic band, which was exactly 3,748 years ago yesterday. :wink:
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: elmer on December 18, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
I was hoping you had success and could give us more info, because what you have shown us is manicured and glorious, but it was not as simple as export>convert>compile from the sounds of it.
Aww, thanks again. :) I'm sure I could still give plenty of info on this and would be happy to help out. Though I haven't done it yet, it sounds like the biggest issue is that the songs fall apart due to timing. When this happens it is important to do an audit of each measure in each channel (unless you can tell what the affected channel is by listening) and confirm it has the correct number of beats per whatever the time signature you are working with is. So, for 4/4 time (probably most common time signature) every measure has to have 4 beat counts per measure regardless of what types of notes are used. The devil is usually (but not always) in the rests. I can't tell you how many times I've left something as small as a 1/16th rest out and everything starts to fall apart. Of course my recommendation would always be to complete the composition/conversion prior to shifting the timing of channels around with rests for effects like echoing and such as well.
IMHO, this is one of the biggest practical problems with MML/Squirrel.
"Yes", BITD all the pro musicians had to do this careful accounting cumulative-note-lengths-per-measure, but it's a total PITA, and not at all user-friendly.
It's the kind of tedious drudgery that computers are supposed to have saved us from.
IIRC, 3MLE is supposed to make this process a little easier by outputing measure information into the MML file.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: elmer on December 18, 2016, 08:18:50 AM
I was hoping you had success and could give us more info, because what you have shown us is manicured and glorious, but it was not as simple as export>convert>compile from the sounds of it.
Aww, thanks again. :) I'm sure I could still give plenty of info on this and would be happy to help out. Though I haven't done it yet, it sounds like the biggest issue is that the songs fall apart due to timing. When this happens it is important to do an audit of each measure in each channel (unless you can tell what the affected channel is by listening) and confirm it has the correct number of beats per whatever the time signature you are working with is. So, for 4/4 time (probably most common time signature) every measure has to have 4 beat counts per measure regardless of what types of notes are used. The devil is usually (but not always) in the rests. I can't tell you how many times I've left something as small as a 1/16th rest out and everything starts to fall apart. Of course my recommendation would always be to complete the composition/conversion prior to shifting the timing of channels around with rests for effects like echoing and such as well.
IMHO, this is one of the biggest practical problems with MML/Squirrel.
"Yes", BITD all the pro musicians had to do this careful accounting cumulative-note-lengths-per-measure, but it's a total PITA, and not at all user-friendly.
It's the kind of tedious drudgery that computers are supposed to have saved us from.
IIRC, 3MLE is supposed to make this process a little easier by outputing measure information into the MML file.
It's only a problem if you aren't aware of it, and it's hardly as tedious as you imply.
It's standard "sheet music" fare. It's as user friendly as composing real sheet music. :-"
You have to finish a measure. Trackers avoid this by having the whole rigid column/step thing. Piano rolls treat all blankness as rests (3MLE is doing this). Step sequencers do this also. We don't have an interface to fill in the blanks for you, so you have to do it yourself. Some older sequencers require you to punch in rests yourself.
It's likely, as pointed out already, that trailing rests are not existing. So, your patterns end earlier than the measure actually ends. Then, they will loop early and everything loses sync. This is REALLY easy to fix once you do it one time and see what it is.
You really just need to spot check the measures in 3MLE, and see if the white indicator marker lines up with ends of measures. If not, add some rests until it does. You just move the cursor in the text editor left to right from note to note and watch the indicator. The visual piano roll thing makes it really easy to look and notice "hey there's a gap between the last note, and the measure end. I need a rest here!"
Gredler, if you give me an example of your stuff *not* working, I can show you how to fix it.
You probably need something as simple as an R8 or R16 to finish off a measure and have it stay lined up.
It would be nice if 3MLE put the rests in for you, but it doesn't, because the players/etc. are a little more sophisticated due to having the built in concept of a measure. It fixes it for you behind the scenes.
Title: Re: PC Engine/TG-16 Music (MIDI to MML to SQUIRREL)
Post by: Arkhan on December 23, 2016, 03:15:47 PM
Man this tapatalk program blows. Quote button is dumb.
I was referring to the triangles, yeah. You can use them with some envelopes and sweeping and get those weird ass tom noises. I still havent really figured out what to call them.
Captoms.
I had a utility that yanked waves out of roms but i cant find it lol