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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: nullity on June 30, 2015, 07:13:43 AM

Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: nullity on June 30, 2015, 07:13:43 AM
(http://screwthispc.com/random/gygax.jpg)
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on June 30, 2015, 07:28:41 AM
That's awesome!

This makes a good, optimistic  "before the game was cancelled" piece!

Gygax is very positive!
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Necromancer on June 30, 2015, 08:23:47 AM
Too bad this one never came to fruition, but why in the world did NEC approach them about making such a game in the first place?  They couldn't possibly believe it'd sell like hot cakes, and the cost was surely far more than what it would've cost to port a handful of great, existing PCE games.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Gentlegamer on June 30, 2015, 01:23:14 PM
My username was inspired by Gary Gygax.

I used to chat with him often at another forum right up until his passing in 2008.

You can tell that is an authentic interview, because Gary used the word milieu.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Gentlegamer on June 30, 2015, 02:03:53 PM
If you're an uber nerd, you can dig through Gary's Q&A thread at enworld.org: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?22566-Q-amp-A-with-Gary-Gygax&styleid=19

It's ten archived threads merged into one. I don't remember any discussion of the DJ video game, but it's been years. You may even come across the portions where Gary and I fought with nerds over the fact that video games are not and cannot be RPGs.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Gentlegamer on June 30, 2015, 02:30:16 PM
But when a nerd is wrong, particularly wrong on the internet, he must be rebuked.

Seriously, there were people arguing with the inventor of the role-playing game on what constitutes such a game.
Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 01, 2015, 12:38:19 AM
(http://www.archives.tg-16.com/images/9303_dangerous_blink.gif)

Here is a teaser I wrote for an incomplete article:

Quote
CAUSE OF DEATH: Have we finally determined the truth? Did TTi abort Dangerous Journeys: Necropolis in response to TSR's agressive legal tactics? Should TG-16 fans blame TSR for the premature death of a promising RPG set in a mystical Egyptian setting? Jump to the discussion below to learn more details from Gary Gygax himself...


http://www.archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1993_03.htm#gygax_was_betrayed_by_NEC

Well, last year I started writing this article...(it is not finished!!!!) but basically Gygax claims that TSR's corporate  tactics squashed Gygax's new business venture (Dangerous Journeys)...litigation and legal battles cost too much and take too long, so Gygax sold ALL his DJ IP to TSR, who just wanted to remove DJ from market.

Basically, the Dangerous Journeys TG-CD project was a victim of this larger corporate battle.

 (http://www.archives.tg-16.com/images/9303_dangerous_blink.gif)

THE QUOTED EXCERPT (block quote, powder blue box) is from a much longer Gygax interview where he discusses lots of interesting things, but only briefly touched on DJ and video games.  The interview is easy to find online.

BOTTOM LINE: We really don't know how far into development Dangerous Journeys: Necropolis was until it was cancelled. I don't think it was far, despite the fact that the planned release date of DJ (April 1993) preceded/coincided with TSR lawsuits.

 (http://www.archives.tg-16.com/images/9303_dangerous_blink.gif)

I have a later draft of this article where I tried to establish a basic timeline, showing how TSR's legal challenges disrupted all of Gygax's business ventures...which is why TTi and JVC backed off.

TRIVIA: magazines initially listed the game as "Dangerous Dimensions", which NEC/JVC chose from a list Gygax suggested...but "DD" was too similar to "D&D"...

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH $$$$ Gary accepted for the settlement with TSR...
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: DragonmasterDan on July 01, 2015, 01:05:39 AM
Too bad this one never came to fruition, but why in the world did NEC approach them about making such a game in the first place?  They couldn't possibly believe it'd sell like hot cakes, and the cost was surely far more than what it would've cost to port a handful of great, existing PCE games.

By the later part of the US TurboGrafx lifespan they were clearly aiming for a niche audience. I'm sure considering the popularity of Dungeons and Dragon's with the same type of niche audience they thought a game based on another Gygax property could be a selling point if that brand took off. I'm sure the licensing was considerably cheaper than it was for licensing the Dungeons and Dragons name for Order of the Griffon being that D&D was already established at that point.

There may have been some thought that if the "Dangerous" brand took off having the first video game based off of it would be a system seller among a niche audience.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Black Tiger on July 01, 2015, 06:45:05 AM
We WILL see a prototype online someday. But it will be snatched up by proto hoarders who will keep it under wraps until they die.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: glazball on July 01, 2015, 07:36:42 AM
Not meaning to derail this thread, but...

@gentlegamer - did Gygax actually invent the term "role playing game"?  I'm no D&D expert so I'm honestly curious.  Because either way, I'd have to disagree with the both of you also - that video games are not and can't be RPGs.

In my limited D&D experience, I would say that pen & paper D&D is even less a "game" than any traditional video game RPG.  I would say it's more a "role-playing story" rather than a game.  I associate games (video or otherwise) with an ending (beat the evil main bad guy), an objective (high score, checkmate in chess, etc), or some sort of competition (sports).

Anyways, just hoping I won't have to reevaluate my whole life lol ...
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: seieienbu on July 01, 2015, 12:07:13 PM
Nulity, was magazine was that from?  I remember that specific layout for like, a CES special or something that came with an EGM or a Gamepro or something?  Do you have that whole book scanned?
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 01, 2015, 12:08:53 PM
FACT: the reason why I love nullity is because he is the only one who also attempts Kremlinology on the little pieces of information we dig up from TTi and company.

Nullity, I just got back from a trip to Massachusetts. I will respond to your comments/observations when I get a chance later.

I AM GLAD YOU SCANNED THAT page from TurboForce #4 because I had a super lossy version... Now we can do a proper comparison :)
Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 01, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
Nulity, was magazine was that from?  I remember that specific layout for like, a CES special or something that came with an EGM or a Gamepro or something?  Do you have that whole book scanned?

(http://archives.tg-16.com/archive-four/TF-04-28.jpg)

TurboForce #4
http://archives.tg-16.com/turbo_force_0004.htm
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: ParanoiaDragon on July 01, 2015, 05:54:24 PM
I could swear there was a 3rd picture of the game, in some sort of garden or forest like setting, am I crazy?  I any case, I found this link, "might" be some extra info there. http://archeogaming.blogspot.com/2012/07/dangerous-journeys-necropolis-crpg-that.html
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 02, 2015, 12:45:11 AM

I could swear there was a 3rd picture of the game, in some sort of garden or forest like setting, am I crazy?  I any case, I found this link, "might" be some extra info there. http://archeogaming.blogspot.com/2012/07/dangerous-journeys-necropolis-crpg-that.html


The author of the blog was overly harsh: he said that the "horribly pixelated" graphics indicated that the game was far from completion, but the graphics look decent, especially for a work-in-progress. The 4 character portraits (in-game) are clearly the work of a talented professional. I think he was focusing on the goofy title screen (from the photocopied flyer), and not the in-game screenshots. The first-person views look pretty sparse, but they are pat for the course and do not look any worse than actually released games.

I have one (both?) of those DJ ads (I bought the DJ books, hoping for some info in the forward/main text about video game aspirations...but there was nothing in the content of the books about any video games).

I am trying to find a later revision of my article, because I distinctly remember someone (Gygax?) stating that Dangerous Journeys: Necropolis video game was * promoted* at an industry convention, but he did not make it sound as if it were a playable demo. Of course, this is all speculation, hence my allusion to Kremlinology. :)

Still, this is common in development (you could have 80% of a game finished, but not be even close to offering a polished, playable demo).

Best case scenario: some of the game's assets were created (art, music), at least one level/stage/small map designed and implemented (perhaps not fully). Basic UI and battle system implemented.

MIRACLE: Dare we dream that a cinema (art + music + voice acting) was created?

REALITY:
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: DragonmasterDan on July 02, 2015, 02:00:46 AM

I am trying to find a later revision of my article, because I distinctly remember someone (Gygax?) stating that Dangerous Journeys: Necropolis video game was * promoted* at an industry convention, but he did not make it sound as if it were a playable demo. Of course, this is all speculation, hence my allusion to Kremlinology. :)


I was at the 1992 and 1993 Summer CES where TTI was an exhibitor and I don't recall seeing it at their booth either year.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Galder on July 02, 2015, 03:49:27 AM
God... awesome thread and information! Too bad that the game was never released. By checking the couple of screenies I have to admit that there was definitely something "new" going on with that game. I can hardly match its graphics and GUI with any other RPGs of its time. It would have been a bloody mess in the TE's screen though having the game's window, the characters faces, the map, the commands etc. :D
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 02, 2015, 04:40:05 AM

partial translation courtesy of xelement5x :D

(http://screwthispc.com/random/djj.jpg)

(10:12:35) xelement5x: null the blue part says dangerous journeys
(10:14:12) xelement5x: 1st line, i can only read "game"
(10:14:23) xelement5x: 2nd line "gary gygax"
(10:14:50) xelement5x: 3rd line "kusu no ???"..
(10:15:06) xelement5x: 4th line "fantasy RPG"


You guys didn't notice the caption under the pic? :)

http://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1993_03.htm#dangerous_journeys

It clearly says:

Quote
Dangerous Journeys: "A fantasy RPG based on a book by the esteemed game writer Gary Gygax."


Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 02, 2015, 04:52:57 AM
Quote

d'oh!

So, you have the Dangerous Journeys: Mythus book... what can you tell us about Necropolis?  If DJ is based on the book and given the subtitle "Necropolis", then we can hopefully get more of a feel for what the game would have been like.

Well, I bought them 10 years ago, so I'll have to refresh...because I haven't read them since.

However, it had pretty general rule sets, from what I can remember...let me read 'em again.

:)

I'll get back to you
Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 02, 2015, 05:06:07 AM
Ok, so I have some reading while I am playing with my kids this afternoon:

 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/dangerous_journeys_french_fries.jpg)
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Galder on July 02, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
Dat artwork!!! (... and dem french fries!)
Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 02, 2015, 06:35:36 AM
Dat artwork!!! (... and dem french fries!)

"Magickal Fryes from Aerth," according to the nomenclature of the Mythus universe. :)

Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Gentlegamer on July 02, 2015, 07:32:33 AM
As much as I loved Gygax, Dangerous Journeys was a game I couldn't get into, far too rules heavy.

If anyone knows RPGs, Gygax followed that game with a much more rules-lite game, Lejendary Adventure, which is far superior in my opinion.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Mathius on July 02, 2015, 12:51:46 PM
Yeowzer! Nice detective work guys!
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: SuperGrafx on July 02, 2015, 02:55:45 PM
So that's what he looked like?
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Gentlegamer on July 02, 2015, 03:01:25 PM
So that's what he looked like?



You never watched Futurama?

(http://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/0/0c/Gary_Gygax.jpg/225px-Gary_Gygax.jpg)
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: SuperGrafx on July 02, 2015, 04:08:35 PM
So that's what he looked like?



You never watched Futurama?

(http://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/0/0c/Gary_Gygax.jpg/225px-Gary_Gygax.jpg)


no
Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 03, 2015, 12:46:00 AM
Quote
...
now, if only esteban could give us insight into the world of necropolis!


I will keep updating this post, so all NOTES about Necropolis are in one place:

 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/dangerous_journeys_french_fries.jpg)

(01) Dangerous Journeys = the entire RPG system, intended to be "universal"...HP = Heroic Persona (instead of PC = Player Character).

(02) Mythus = the "fantasy" component of Dangerous Journeys, set on Aearth, thus, it is not surprising that magick (magic) is an important element of Mythus. In fact, the thick tome above—Mythus Magick—is really just a damn spell book, listing thousands* of incantations, spells, et f*cking cetera. *1,400

(2.5) HEKA (officially pronounced "hee kah", but I pronounce it "hay kah") is the "magical energy" that permeates Aearth, and is especially concentrated in AEGYPT.

(03) Necropolis = AEGYPT, the first fully "fleshed out" setting/scenario in the Mythus fantasy realm, based on an alternate version of Earth's Egypt (where Aegypt never crumbles and, instead, establishes itself as a permanent, ongoing empire, fending off foreign invaders—Romans, Persians—and remaining an incredibly powerful influence on the entire Mediterranean region. The Aegyptian empire of Aerth is on par with, if not more powerful than, the Roman and Persian empires we know from Earth).

NECROPOLIS SPECIFIC STORY:
(A) Set = evil entity/god
(B) Rahotep = Set's pawn/servant, but still a mighty antagonist/arch-enemy who executes Set's will. Rahotep is the power-hungry, ruthless bastard who wants take over Aearth, but first he has to take over AEGYPT. Rahotep has super-powerful control of HEKA and wants to become godlike...he transcends his human form and comes close to conquering AEGYPT, but, of course, his plans are thwarted (he doesn't fully transform to a god) and he is imprisoned in a tomb by "good guys"... where he remains trapped for millennia, until...
(C) Rahotep wants to (1) free himself, (2) complete his transformation to Demi-God, (3) conquer Aearth. NATURALLY HE NEEDS NINE EVAL OBJECTS (containing vast magical power) to aid him in this mission.
(D) Who should stumble upon these enchanted weapons? Our heroes, of course...who will inadvertently bring them to Rahotep...

(E) Our heroes could be motivated by  (1) righteousness and/or (2) greed.

(F) Here is a better summary of the entire Necropolis scenario, it would be interesting to see how much of this would have made it into the the TG-CD game.

NOTE: View/save original image (@ 1,000 pixels wide), I halved it here using "width=500" property of image tag!

 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/necropolis_overview_1.jpg) 

 (http://junk.tg-16.com/images/necropolis_overview_2.jpg) 
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Mathius on July 03, 2015, 06:33:55 AM
Confused Mathius here. In the above writings does "HP" in this instance mean "Human Players"? Forgive me as I don't play D&D.
Title: Re: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: Mathius on July 03, 2015, 06:57:04 AM
Heroic Persona. :D

esteban... thank you! Damn that story would make a great game. I wonder if the 9 icons in the lower left represent the 9 relics you mist find?

You have my eternal gratitude!
Title: A Dangerous Interview
Post by: esteban on July 03, 2015, 07:47:42 AM
Heroic Persona. :D

esteban... thank you! Damn that story would make a great game. I wonder if the 9 icons in the lower left represent the 9 relics you mist find?

Yeah, it is not a particularly novel story, but it certainly would be fun to work through all the different encounters (townsfolk, bandits, crocodile river, cult of priests, etc.) leading up to the Gorge of Osiris and the temples/tombs.

I thought the 9 icons might represent the UI...