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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: SignOfZeta on August 10, 2015, 10:40:00 AM
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So apparently when I was away from the forum a bit the TG-16 turned into the damned Neo f*cking Geo and pirate shit is everywhere and noobs are getting owned. f*ck.
So I'm starting this thread as a place to examine where we are at with fakes and whatever in 2015. We can talk about specific scams but I'm more interested in prognostication.
A while back there was the big blow up over US Aero Fighters 3 for AES. A nearly iron clad source for a case of this never released game fooled a great number of guys out of many thousands of dollars. When this was going on, when the game was thought by many to be real and by many to be fake, it occurred to me that in the case of many of these things we will eventually get to the point where spotting fakes will be impossible because there will be very few differences that don't require a professional archivist and a scanning electron microscope.
So what happens then?
Well, luckily there is some precedence for this. Collectards have been with us for centuries at least since the time of the dawn of the USA if not much earlier. There are even some historical parallels to what we are seeing now where the game is mostly real (ie: the CD) but the case and whatever is fake and how collectors and the market react to this.
A while back I read a book called Banvard's Folly. In this book there is a chapter about This guy:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Ireland
Long story short, he faked a lot of Shakespere collectible junk like hotel receipts, signed plays, etc. Skepticism was much less common in those days and he got away with a lot. It's a long story and a very good one but if you want to know more, just read the book. It's terrific. What I want to mention what I found most interesting is that his fakes are actually worth money now too. This is because there are other things that can make something valuable to a collectards. Even if its fake, it's a fascinating fake because of how many dudes this guy fooled. He was more significant in the world of collectable Shakespere shit than Shakespear was for a time just because of the volume this guy produced.
So compare that to something like the bootleg Sapphires dickface made. Obviously they aren't worth hundreds like a legit copy, but what *are* they worth? Well, it's a stamped CD with Sapphire on it. That's worth something. It looks %99.9 identical to a real one and unless you have one to compare it to or somebody tells you, you'll never know. So the value is between $1 and $600 (or whatever a real one costs) but where, exactly? At one point I said "$37" and paid that, but now I'm sure it's more. A fake does a better job than a CD-R does after all. If you can fool someone into believing it's fake, then it's worth $600, but what if it's known to be a fake?
Those fakes are easy to get, but what about 10 years from now, 20 years from now? The real copies will be as hard to find as ever before, the fakes will then be well known as fakes, but still coveted because of how fun they are to play and also because of the weird cultural significance.
What about when we get to the point where even the copies of Monster Maker are fake and represent the majority of TG-16 games?
The only way to know will be to wait and see, but I still find it interesting to talk about.
There are so many different moving targets when trying to pin down something like this. As time goes by, everything is changing. As we become more of a download-only society, the appeal of anything that exists on a physical format is constant changing and the "noob market" is always growing, never shrinking. Soon the people who actually have memories of playing TG-16 in-period will be a tiny minority. I often get pissed when collectards get into a scene I'm involved in who didn't even the shit exist a year or two earlier. It's hard to hear someone tell you what your collection is worth when it's older than they are! However, some day us old timers will be all dead and EVERYONE who collects TG-16 will be one of those noobs who never say the stuff in its prime. The definition of "expert" will have to change...and what's he going to consider valuable?
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As we become more of a download-only society, the appeal of anything that exists on a physical format is constant changing and the "noob market" is always growing, never shrinking. Soon the people who actually have memories of playing TG-16 in-period will be a tiny minority. I often get pissed when collectards get into a scene I'm involved in who didn't even the shit exist a year or two earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL26qAQobp0
Reminds me of that thread we had on that ugly grease hair Metal Jesus guy.
However, some of the noobs joining this forum are "good guys" too. As in, they had a Turbografx as a kid and didn't know much about it until now, and now they want to buy all the games for their childhood system.
But hell, what do I know. I'm only 17. I got into the system via the Virtual Console and have beaten dozens of fantastic games that I would have never know about had I stuck with Nintendo stuff. I guess I'm a noob as well.
EDIT: Also, the price bubble is growing for PC Engine games, but not nearly at the extent of Turbografx games. But can you really blame the market? There weren't even 1 million Turbografxs, and less than 50,000 Duos.
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Another thing I thought of...
So what if you have a legit game CD but the rest is fake?
This reminds me of the collectable car world, particularly sports racing cars from the mid 50s to late 60s, which is a really high dollar world these days. Cars are going for over $20M.
What's interesting is that these are the sorts of cars with racing pedigree. In fact, that's pretty much why they are valuable. We aren't taking about rare Mustangs with some really unpopular option packages (ie that Barret Jackson bullshit) we're talking about cars that can only be described as "unique". Only one car can will overall at Le Mans in 1958. That's it. They were raced without pity and probably took quite a bit of damage. Some of these cars have been raced constantly since they were made and have been in dozens of wrecks. Because these cars are what they are (and because their owners are billionaires) they usually get brought back to racing condition. But how much is original? Obviously the tires have been thrown away hundreds of times. You can only hammer the dents out of 60 year old sheet metal so many times so many have no original sheet metal. Engines are sometimes blown beyond repair so those get swapped out with an identical (but still not original) replacement.
The few people on earth that are trusted with keeping this kind of machine run in are fully capable of building and entire copy from scratch if they wanted to, and sometimes do. Sometimes the car is considered a "replica" and "real" at the same time. For example, maybe you have a Fetrari 250 TR and it was written off in a massive wreck. While restoring it you make it into a copy of the TR58, Ferrari's own special works variet of the 250TR that won Le Mans in 1958. It's a REAL 250TR (in itself a very valuable car) but a FAKE TR58 at the same time?
So what if you have a TG-16 game with a fake insert and a legit CD? Well, the CD to me is like the ID tag that gets put on these old cars. Sometimes they'll build the entire car from nothing more than an ID tag and an engine block. You can only make as many "legit" cars as you have number plates.
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I got a chance to check out one of the fabled US AF3 carts. It looked pretty damn real to me. I am no authority on AES carts but it looked perfect .
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Well, I assume that some games will remain relatively lame/boring/common, so there will never be a need to pirate them.
However, we can look to Nintendo DS ....hasn't that market been flooded with countless pirated games?
One of the roles of this community, then, is to document the differences...not that we want to nurture collectardism, but because we want to educate folks.
Black_Tiger's "How to identify a bootleg Sapphire" is the model to follow.
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This may be common sense and moot as technology rolls on, but if you can wipe the ink off a dry manual or insert it's probably fake.
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I've got a bootleg mickey mouse magical quest for gba. I can't imagine that being popular enough to warrant it, but it exists. Boxed, manual everything.
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I've got a bootleg mickey mouse magical quest for gba. I can't imagine that being popular enough to warrant it, but it exists. Boxed, manual everything.
I own a bootleg Doom II, so I get your confusion. Who would want to play pixellated, choppy, non WASD Doom II?
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I got a chance to check out one of the fabled US AF3 carts. It looked pretty damn real to me. I am no authority on AES carts but it looked perfect .
I never saw one in person, but once the shit hit the fan and the differences were well known it was obvious why the buyers weren't allowed to bring a flatbed scanner with them when they purchased it. It could have been a better fake...I'm sure the next one will be.
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As we become more of a download-only society, the appeal of anything that exists on a physical format is constant changing and the "noob market" is always growing, never shrinking. Soon the people who actually have memories of playing TG-16 in-period will be a tiny minority. I often get pissed when collectards get into a scene I'm involved in who didn't even the shit exist a year or two earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL26qAQobp0
Reminds me of that thread we had on that ugly grease hair Metal Jesus guy.
However, some of the noobs joining this forum are "good guys" too. As in, they had a Turbografx as a kid and didn't know much about it until now, and now they want to buy all the games for their childhood system.
But hell, what do I know. I'm only 17. I got into the system via the Virtual Console and have beaten dozens of fantastic games that I would have never know about had I stuck with Nintendo stuff. I guess I'm a noob as well.
EDIT: Also, the price bubble is growing for PC Engine games, but not nearly at the extent of Turbografx games. But can you really blame the market? There weren't even 1 million Turbografxs, and less than 50,000 Duos.
There were more than enough made originally. TZD having NOS for 20 years is proof of that. The expanding population of Earth is the reason the stuff is "rare" today. That and the fact that few new games capture people's attention in the same way. A most fanciest deluxist version of Halo is still less cool than a loose copy of Keith Courage.
I didn't mean to make it sound like I hate all noobs, I was just trying to explain this weird thing that happens to me where people who collect TG-16 or laserdisc or any of the things I'm into tell me what's what, what stuff is worth, how rare something is, etc, when everything they know about TG-16/PCE comes from Wikipedia, eBay, and fat pieces of hairy shit with YouTube channels. That's really frustrating. They are often correct, many times they DO have a better idea of an item's "worth" than I do because I haven't checked eBay since this guy started collecting a year ago, however they can't tell you about the ending of Y's IV or how to beat Dracula because they've never even play the shit.
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Bootleggers are f*cking scum, period.
Carriage Return. I don't mind "repros" if they're clearly labeled as such and isn't sold by ridiculous prices (and if they don't screw over the community like tobias. Why can't everyone be like Sparky)... it's too bad people are all trying to make bank on old games with pirated goods.
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I agree with what Punch said above. In the Famicom proto world (mostly out of Japan), fake protos, lavished with care and attention to detail -- such as "weathering" to make the label look like it really was printed in 1988 -- have come into the market, meaning you can't trust any prototype to be real anymore.
Well, at least that's made it easier on my wallet, but jeez, such dishonesty. If it's a repro, print it in BOLD on the game and case. Otherwise, if you make it as authentic-looking as possible, you're a counterfeiter who's in it for the $$$$$$$.
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I look forward to the counterfeiters making bootlegs so hard to distinguish from the original that the whole market crashes.
Scorched earth, reset to zero.
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I look forward to the counterfeiters making bootlegs so hard to distinguish from the original that the whole market crashes.
Scorched earth, reset to zero.
I agree. I've long wished someone would flood the market with cheap near indistinguishable bootlegs of earthbound. There just really is no reason why that game should cost so much. Back when I was looking for a copy there was almost always at least 30 copies on ebay. Most loose with poor labels and people still asking $100 or more. There is just no reason for that.
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I look forward to the counterfeiters making bootlegs so hard to distinguish from the original that the whole market crashes.
Scorched earth, reset to zero.
Depending on the thing you want to pirate, this is very likely to take place.
Which leads us to the question of the future: in a Bladerunner sort of future, where fake owls are cheaper than real ones, if the game was COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH FROM REAL could you enjoy your games? Again, you are NOT able to tell them apart. Still want to pay $400 for Might and Magic?
I pretty much can't wait for it.
The thing is, I'm not sure it will happen like that. In the future, kids born after the advent of Netflix and The Pirate Bay are less and less likely to have respect for originals. This may lead them to just not care if something is real or not. Only old men will even be able to explain that distinction. To them real/pirate will not mean anything. There are plenty of places in the world where this already the case. Only people with relatively huge amounts of disposable income can drop $60 on a game. That's a month's pay in some of the emerging markets that will eventually dominate the global economies.
If you are Russian, do you want a Famicom, a NES, or a Dendy? A Dendy, of course, that's what you played as a kid.
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I look forward to the counterfeiters making bootlegs so hard to distinguish from the original that the whole market crashes.
Scorched earth, reset to zero.
I agree. I've long wished someone would flood the market with cheap near indistinguishable bootlegs of earthbound. There just really is no reason why that game should cost so much. Back when I was looking for a copy there was almost always at least 30 copies on ebay. Most loose with poor labels and people still asking $100 or more. There is just no reason for that.
They are out there, it's just that most people are trying to pass them off as $200 Earthboud copies ;)
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Which leads us to the question of the future: in a Bladerunner sort of future, where fake owls are cheaper than real ones, if the game was COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH FROM REAL could you enjoy your games? Again, you are NOT able to tell them apart. Still want to pay $400 for Might and Magic?
For example, I wouldn't pay more than $10 for a copy of Sega CD Snatcher. There's no way to tell if it's authentic anymore. So it's worth very little to me, and should be worth little to buyers out there.
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Which leads us to the question of the future: in a Bladerunner sort of future, where fake owls are cheaper than real ones, if the game was COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH FROM REAL could you enjoy your games? Again, you are NOT able to tell them apart. Still want to pay $400 for Might and Magic?
For example, I wouldn't pay more than $10 for a copy of Sega CD Snatcher. There's no way to tell if it's authentic anymore. So it's worth very little to me, and should be worth little to buyers out there.
That isn't true. Use the mint marks to compare. Honestly I wasn't even aware there was pressed repros of this floating around anyway.
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This topic is an interesting one. Glad to see it being discussed like adults unlike the jaguar scene, as a great example. Anyway, the questions and hypothesis being posed here are quite interesting. The idea of a society of new gamers not caring about original copies or such, it's already here. Want proof of it? Go into any Gamestop and look at the walls and walls of loose discs without case artwork or instructions. Check the scratched and such on said discs as well. I don't know how many times I have bough something from there and been in a hurry and didn't check the disc...
That alone is another reason these little punks like Download only stuff, you don't need to take care of it like I do with my games, Records and Laserdiscs. These things you have to really take care of or they are ruined...why would anyone want to do that, right? I went into my Sons room once and there it was, the Leaning Tower of Pisa made out of CD's stacked on top of each other recklessly. In the years since, he has outgrown that habit, but he learned a hard lesson. I refused to replace anything that git scratched. He had to learn. Most kids nowadays just don't give a rat's ass. And one might argue about semantics like some kid wouldn't play this game, it's too mature for them...yeah, keep thinking that.
In the end, I am a "Collector" in the fact that I have a bunch of games and such, but I like to play them. I like to flip through the books and I actually like to know my stuff is real. I won't lie and say I have never bought a repro, and to a degree, I think there is a market for it. I collect Comic Books and enjoy 2nd and 3rd printings when the 1st prints are too expensive because I want to read the stories. The sad thing I see are Pirates making illegal copies and ass-raping the gaming community. That is where I get upset. There's just no need for this crap. Hell, truth be told, take something like Beyond Shadowgate for example, taking the legalities out of it...there is a big enough demand for the game in people's collection that you could, theoretically make a pretty nice repro of it on a burnt CD with a case and instructions and everything else and sell it for let's say a fair amount of $40.00 and make money off of it. Is that what would happen? hell no. It would get sold for $200.00 plus or even be copied to the "T" and sold as a legit copy on evilbay for a stupid amount of money. It's sad. Thank God they can't fake something like magical Chase easily yet. When that happens, the floodgates are open, and I fear we are VERY close to that day.
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For example, I wouldn't pay more than $10 for a copy of Sega CD Snatcher. There's no way to tell if it's authentic anymore. So it's worth very little to me, and should be worth little to buyers out there.
That isn't true. Use the mint marks to compare. Honestly I wasn't even aware there was pressed repros of this floating around anyway.
Yea I agree, this seems pretty far-fetched.
Somewhat on topic - there was an art forger named Elmyr de Hory who was featured in the documentary F For Fake. He faked tons of paintings of famous artists and sold them through agents worldwide for years making mega-rupees. Similar to what Zeta mentioned- even though many of those paintings are now proven to be forgeries by de Hory, even THOSE KNOWN FORGERIES are becoming sought-after and have substantial values of their own as collectables. On top of that, there are even known forged de Hory forgeries! f*cking wacky, eh?
To quote Wikipedia:
In Welles' film [F For Fake], Elmyr de Hory questioned what it was that made his forgeries inferior to the actual paintings created by the artists he imitated, particularly since they had fooled so many experts, and were always appreciated when it was believed that they were genuine.
Sadly, I would imagine some dumb f*ck with too much money would buy a faked Aero Fighters 3 cart for thousands of rupees if they could, simply because for better or worse, it is now part of Neo history.
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If you are Russian, do you want a Famicom, a NES, or a Dendy? A Dendy, of course, that's what you played as a kid.
Hard to believe anyone would prefer a Dendy...
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I can't believe we are talking about F For Fake. That movie gets shit on by Wells fans but f*ck THAT because that movie blew my motherf*cking MIND. It will redefine your entire idea of what "legit" is and quite possibly cause you to question if such a concept even exists in the real world.
Yet for some reason I neglected to bring it up myself.
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An interesting topic to be sure.
As the original IP holders no longer see a dime from sales of original games I don't see that I'm doing anyone any particular favors by not burning a game or playing something on an everdrive. Entering a realm of slight hypocrisy however, the thought of paying a bootlegger doesn't sit well with me due to the knowledge that someone who Isn't the IP holder is making money. Meanwhile, if I were to acquire a bootleg of Sapphire from somebody who'd already owned it, I don't think I'd think twice about it. To me, the difference is who is getting the money.
Someone actively producing and profiting from piracy is a scumbag in my mind. Someone who is just passing along a disk however? I don't see the harm in that. Obviously at some point someone had to purchase it from the original bootlegger so how I can think one is okay and the other isn't is where I feel my personal hypocrisy lies.
What's keeping me from having all the games that I would like to play is merely the price on the ones I did not have the money/foresight to purchase when they were cheaper. If I truly couldn't tell the difference between a legit copy and a bootleg and prices bottomed out to reflect this I would be perfectly happy playing a bootleg and not knowing for sure whether or not any game not purchased in the past was real.
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For older consoles I can use Everdrive or other flash carts but not everything is available that way such as PCE CD games. I am not a collector but a gamer so often times boxes and manuals aren't important although I'd prefer it's complete.
Still I would be pissed if I paid a lot for a good game only to find out it's a fake and won't be worth much if I resell it knowing it's fake. If I tried to feign ignorance, it may still fail anyway. This is of course assuming the actual game ROM are done right and not cheaply like common Chinese junk that fails in a few days.
Last year I was burned by a fake GBA cart that looked very good. No typo on label like common counterfeit GBA games, label didn't look fuzzy, etc. But it only worked once then it died. When I opened it to check, the PCB and parts looked like they were put together by 4 year old and using glue paste (the elementary school kind that Ralph loved to eat on Simpsons) to hold the chips in. Even my very first soldering project wasn't this bad. Fortunately I was still within Paypal window for claims so I got refunded.
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For older consoles I can use Everdrive or other flash carts but not everything is available that way such as PCE CD games. I am not a collector but a gamer so often times boxes and manuals aren't important although I'd prefer it's complete.
Still I would be pissed if I paid a lot for a good game only to find out it's a fake and won't be worth much if I resell it knowing it's fake. If I tried to feign ignorance, it may still fail anyway. This is of course assuming the actual game ROM are done right and not cheaply like common Chinese junk that fails in a few days.
Last year I was burned by a fake GBA cart that looked very good. No typo on label like common counterfeit GBA games, label didn't look fuzzy, etc. But it only worked once then it died. When I opened it to check, the PCB and parts looked like they were put together by 4 year old and using glue paste (the elementary school kind that Ralph loved to eat on Simpsons) to hold the chips in. Even my very first soldering project wasn't this bad. Fortunately I was still within Paypal window for claims so I got refunded.
Was it a pokemon game?
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Last year i came upon a Sapphire CD complete with spine and all for around 60$. :D
i thought it was too good to be true and i heard about repros of this one.
i dont know what make it appart form an original.....except that i can see where the data
are stopping on the cd, i guess this gives a big hint. everything else seems fine
is there more hint on the cd or case for those who came upon it ? :-k
i dont mind a repros if its well done :) (But i'm not paying the price of an original...¬_¬ no way)
i mean....in the end i just want to play the damn game :wink:
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Last year i came upon a Sapphire CD complete with spine and all for around 60$. :D
i thought it was too good to be true and i heard about repros of this one.
i dont know what make it appart form an original.....except that i can see where the data
are stopping on the cd, i guess this gives a big hint. everything else seems fine
is there more hint on the cd or case for those who came upon it ? :-k
i dont mind a repros if its well done :) (But i'm not paying the price of an original...¬_¬ no way)
i mean....in the end i just want to play the damn game :wink:
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/sapcomp1.html
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Last year i came upon a Sapphire CD complete with spine and all for around 60$. :D
i thought it was too good to be true and i heard about repros of this one.
i dont know what make it appart form an original.....except that i can see where the data
are stopping on the cd, i guess this gives a big hint. everything else seems fine
is there more hint on the cd or case for those who came upon it ? :-k
i dont mind a repros if its well done :) (But i'm not paying the price of an original...¬_¬ no way)
i mean....in the end i just want to play the damn game :wink:
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/sapcomp1.html
Thank you ! :) that's exactly what i wanted ! :pray:
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Was it a pokemon game?
Zelda ALttP for GBA. The only pre-disc era Zelda game not available or playable on 3DS.
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Which leads us to the question of the future: in a Bladerunner sort of future, where fake owls are cheaper than real ones, if the game was COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH FROM REAL could you enjoy your games?
Yep. If someone offered me a Madou for $10 with a 50/50 chance that it's a boot but I'll never know, I'd buy the f*cker and play it. Hell, I'd buy it for $10 even if I knew for certain it was a boot.
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But would you buy it for $200?
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Nope, but I can't see prices staying as high as they are currently if the market were flooded with indistinguishable booties (or NOS games found hidden in some warehouse).
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Yeah, the only reason bootlegs get made and sold is because the original are really highly priced. There's a reason you never see booties of like $10 games, since the original is cheap there is no demand for a "cheaper alternative."
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Yeah, the only reason bootlegs get made and sold is because the original are really highly priced. There's a reason you never see booties of like $10 games, since the original is cheap there is no demand for a "cheaper alternative."
That only counts more for these days, back in the day bootlegs were made of cheap and common games http://www.videogameden.com/vgden_pi.htm
Also consoles like the Gameboy Advance had loads of games bootlegged.
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A friend of mine had a GBA copy of FF6 that was made by "Nintondo." It worked fine: booted every time, saved, loaded, and was beatable. It even came with all of the packaging. GBA piracy must have been pretty much out of control and everywhere, I guess.
Last year i came upon a Sapphire CD complete with spine and all for around 60$. :D
i thought it was too good to be true and i heard about repros of this one.
i dont know what make it appart form an original.....except that i can see where the data
are stopping on the cd, i guess this gives a big hint. everything else seems fine
is there more hint on the cd or case for those who came upon it ? :-k
i dont mind a repros if its well done :) (But i'm not paying the price of an original...¬_¬ no way)
i mean....in the end i just want to play the damn game :wink:
If I could get a good working copy of a bootleg Sapphire for $50/$60 I'd buy it without hesitation. I'd like to own the game but have no interest in paying the $900 that ebay seems to think it goes for now. What's hilarious is that the ebay copies are quite likely bootlegs to begin with and that's where stuff gets terrible.
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I'd like to own the game but have no interest in paying the $900 that ebay seems to think it goes for now. What's hilarious is that the ebay copies are quite likely bootlegs to begin with and that's where stuff gets terrible.
Woah !? its that much pricey ?
damn everytime i breath some air everything goes up on ebay ... :-k
... i should stop breathing :mrgreen:
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Was it a pokemon game?
Zelda ALttP for GBA. The only pre-disc era Zelda game not available or playable on 3DS.
That would have been my next guess.
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I have a Nintondo Kirby game for GBA. Last I check it worked perfectly.
I doubt it's related, but back in the day some FC Disk games were also from "Nintondo", molded right into the cassette.
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Then we have shit like PCEworks. I know its not looked upon kindly hear, as it shouldn't be. But there are people (collectards) out there that are actually supporting this work, and like you stated Zeta, this work might someday also be sought after as a collectible. I don't agree with what Tobias does, but the packages are nice, i mean minus the buttplug in his latest works. So because they are nicely put together, they may someday hold some value to some people out there.
https://pceworks.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/belmont-survival-kit/
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Then we have shit like PCEworks. I know its not looked upon kindly hear, as it shouldn't be. But there are people (collectards) out there that are actually supporting this work, and like you stated Zeta, this work might someday also be sought after as a collectible. I don't agree with what Tobias does, but the packages are nice, i mean minus the buttplug in his latest works. So because they are nicely put together, they may someday hold some value to some people out there.
https://pceworks.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/belmont-survival-kit/
Rondo bootlegs are stupid, but honestly I think a release of Force Gear is pretty cool.
Does Force Gear even have a Konami logo? Or does it just load a save state from Tokimeki Memorial.
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Dracula X butt plugs are to protect you from Dracula butt rape.
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they may someday hold some value to some people out there.
They already do. The day for that to come has already passed.
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they may someday hold some value to some people out there.
They already do. The day for that to come has already passed.
:( Yeah, someone posted a link to the PCEworks site in a group i'm in on facebook. Had to explain how stupid this shit is
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I have given up on the whole situation. As a whole, Tobias is going to make his money. Konami of all people I would think would have cared, but they don't, so I am done on that front. I'm tired of telling people what to do with their money. We already have our own internal issues here anyway with members passing off Sparky goods as legit, so I'm just at the point where I say f*ck it towards all of it. I'm done. Whatever happens, happens.
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:( Yeah, someone posted a link to the PCEworks site in a group i'm in on facebook. Had to explain how stupid this shit is
same thing happened to me