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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: Dicer on August 28, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
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We all know that packing in Kieth Courage was dumb, it's fact...
Personally I would have packed in either Legendary Axe, or made a package that had included the Turbo Tap 2nd Turbopad and Dungeon Explorer.
What would you have packed in there?!!?!
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Ninja Spirit. it's a near-perfect arcade port. it would have really demonstrated the capability of the system at a time when graphics and system specs really mattered to consumers. this was a marketing tactic used with the original genesis pack-in, altered beast. it was far from a good port, but it had great graphics for its time and sold a lot of systems early on in the genesis life-cycle which was what it needed to gain a foothold in the us.
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Alien Crush
China Warrior
Dungeon Explorer
Keith Courage in Alpha Zones
Legendary Axe
Power Golf
R-Type
Victory Run
Vigilante
These are the games that were available at launch. I think Keith Courage was a fair choice when you look at just this bunch. It does just enough to show case some things the system can do and is kind of right there in the middle as far as quality of what was available.
Thank god they didn't go with China Warrior because "oohh, super huge sprites". Ugh.
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Alien Crush
China Warrior
Dungeon Explorer
Keith Courage in Alpha Zones
Legendary Axe
Power Golf
R-Type
Victory Run
Vigilante
These are the games that were available at launch. I think Keith Courage was a fair choice when you look at just this bunch. It does just enough to show case some things the system can do and is kind of right there in the middle as far as quality of what was available.
Thank god they didn't go with China Warrior because "oohh, super huge sprites". Ugh.
out of that list? legendary axe easily
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R-Type. /thread
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I like the idea of Dungeon Explorer, but it is NOT a game with "ARCADE GRAFX" and you want a bit of superficial "wow!"
Final Answer: Legendary Axe
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Platformers were all the rage at the time, and Legendary Axe was not only seen as a Rastan killer, but also won Turbografx GOTY from EGM and GOTY from another magazine.
Legendary Axe is the best choice, despite being a 3rd party game.
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Keith Courage had better colors, bigger sprites and more variety than The Legendary Axe, so you can see why NEC chose to go with that one as their pack-in. The system was supposed to compete with the NES, so NEC was obviously thinking platformer and something that would rival Mario. SEGA thought more about the US market and gave them a darker, more adult port of an arcade game and the rest is history there. Knowing what we know now, The Legendary Axe would have been the better choice, since it felt more "American" in that Conan/Golden Axe sort of way. Axe was a good showcase for the system in terms of music, gameplay and to a lesser extent, graphics and would have stood up very well against Altered Beast. History is 20/20 though, and I'm sure had NEC known Axe would be a GOTY winner (it was even on the cover of an early EGM) that would have been the game they rallied behind.
When you look at how crappy most console launches have been post-Dreamcast, the Turbo's opening day lineup is pretty damn impressive. Alien Crush, Axe, R-Type and Dungeon Explorer are all top tier games for the system.
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They should have just made Keith Courage better.
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They should have just made Keith Courage better.
Or just not deceived buyers by putting the most epic, Aryan-looking guy on the cover only to have the game load up with some spikey-haired Anime kid kicking birds.
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As I post each time some makes this thread again: R-Type.
(http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/tg-16gbox.png)
Some people like to say that R-Type was on SMS and therefore that somehow ruins it as a pack-in and how the TurboGrafx-16 really needed an exclusive arcade port pack-in like Altered Beast...
-which was alson on SMS. :roll:
Platformers were all the rage at the time, and Legendary Axe was not only seen as a Rastan killer, but also won Turbografx GOTY from EGM and GOTY from another magazine.
Legendary Axe is the best choice, despite being a 3rd party game.
Except that nobody had even heard of Rastan.
And the NES would receive a version of Legendary Axe within months.
Keith Courage had better colors, bigger sprites and more variety than The Legendary Axe, so you can see why NEC chose to go with that one as their pack-in. The system was supposed to compete with the NES, so NEC was obviously thinking platformer and something that would rival Mario. SEGA thought more about the US market and gave them a darker, more adult port of an arcade game and the rest is history there. Knowing what we know now, The Legendary Axe would have been the better choice, since it felt more "American" in that Conan/Golden Axe sort of way. Axe was a good showcase for the system in terms of music, gameplay and to a lesser extent, graphics and would have stood up very well against Altered Beast. History is 20/20 though, and I'm sure had NEC known Axe would be a GOTY winner (it was even on the cover of an early EGM) that would have been the game they rallied behind.
When you look at how crappy most console launches have been post-Dreamcast, the Turbo's opening day lineup is pretty damn impressive. Alien Crush, Axe, R-Type and Dungeon Explorer are all top tier games for the system.
If you play through or watch video playthroughs of both games, you'll see that Legendary Axe has bigger sprites and much more variety.
Ninja Spirit. it's a near-perfect arcade port. it would have really demonstrated the capability of the system at a time when graphics and system specs really mattered to consumers. this was a marketing tactic used with the original genesis pack-in, altered beast. it was far from a good port, but it had great graphics for its time and sold a lot of systems early on in the genesis life-cycle which was what it needed to gain a foothold in the us.
Ninja Spirit is a game from years into the future. Wouldn't SFII' have been a much better pack-in?
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Some people like to say that R-Type was on SMS and therefore that somehow ruins it as a pack-in and how the TurboGrafx-16 really needed an exclusive arcade port pack-in like Altered Beast...
-which was alson on SMS. :roll:
Apples and oranges there. Altered Beast is a SEGA property and had brand exclusivity - it wasn't on any competing consoles (in the US). R-Type was previously released (in a pretty solid port, nonetheless) on an older, less powerful SEGA console. In addition, Altered Beast on the SMS is a severely handcuffed game - it is missing multiple levels, single-player only and a huge step down in graphics. If anything, having a far inferior version of Altered Beast on an older console only helped SEGA to tout the power of their new system. Looking at R-Type, many praise Compile's work in porting the game to the SMS - it's the complete game (which the PC Engine can't even claim, at least on a HuCard) and even adds in a bonus level not found in the arcade or the TG-16 port. There's no question the TG-16 version is graphically superior, but it's far less impressive of a jump than Altered Beast SMS to Genesis, and many would argue the SMS's FM sound is more appealing than the sound on the TG-16 version. In my opinion, even if R-Type were a far better game on the TG-16 (which it is not), launching with a game found on the competition's system (that's 5 years older than your current flagship) just cannot happen.
Ignoring the entire Altered Beast/R-Type port debate, shooters, especially at that time, were far more niche than platformers or action games. There's a higher barrier for entry, since those games are generally more difficult (and in R-Type's case, definitely) than your typical platformer or hack and slash game. Plop a kid in front of Keith Courage and s/he could do okay, but R-Type would be over in a matter of seconds. Even though it's an inferior game, Keith Courage would have more appeal to a broader audience than R-Type, which I'm sure weighed on NEC's decision.
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Ignoring the entire Altered Beast/R-Type port debate, shooters, especially at that time, were far more niche than platformers or action games. There's a higher barrier for entry, since those games are generally more difficult (and in R-Type's case, definitely) than your typical platformer or hack and slash game. Plop a kid in front of Keith Courage and s/he could do okay, but R-Type would be over in a matter of seconds. Even though it's an inferior game, Keith Courage would have more appeal to a broader audience than R-Type, which I'm sure weighed on NEC's decision.
R-Type would still be a better choice. Better game, awesome graphics. Keith Courage is so bland and dinky looking.
As difficult as R-Type is, it's not cheap like Keith Courage is. That just sucks.
R-Type was also ported by Hudson, so at least it's a 1st party game.
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They should have packed in Bonk's Adventure once it became available, it's a good game and I've always considered Bonk to be the TG16 mascot.
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(1) I have never been a huge fan of Keith Courage (it is an average game), but it had very nice graphics. It was NOT the worst choice for a pack-in. Like B_T said: it lacked variety and became tedious/repetitive.
(2) R-Type = too niche in its appeal. Yes, it had brand recognition, but it was too difficult for average player. NEC DID NOT WANT KIDS COMPLAINING TO PARENTS ABOUT PACK-IN GAME. I love R-Type. I would have loved it as a pack-in. I could 1CC Gradius (NES) because I was obsessed with shootemups and I only got a few games a year. So, milk all value from a game :) Of course, I was NOT typical. Keith Courage and Legendary Axe had a much more forgiving ramp in difficulty...and a much broader "genre appeal."
(3) Pinball, sadly, is another niche genre that would not have had as broad an appeal as Keith, Legendary...
(4) R-Type was a more expensive 4mB HuCARD to manufacture at time of TG-16 launch, meaning NEC would have been taking a greater economic hit (needlessly, since R-Type would NEVER have been a "killer app" that would sell the system to mainstream demographic).
They should have packed in Bonk's Adventure once it became available, it's a good game and I've always considered Bonk to be the TG16 mascot.
They did, and he was.
(1) TG-16 + Bonk's Adventure + Keith Courage (Early 1991)
http://archives.tg-16.com/turbo_play_0005.htm#p06
(2) TG-16 + Bonk's Revenge + Keith Courage = $99.99 (early 1992?)
http://archives.tg-16.com/EB/EB_1992_03_021.jpg
NOTE: Do you mail away for free Bonk's Adventure? Or is it actually included at point-of-sale? Same question for Bonk's Revenge...
ALSO: I am not sure these dates represent when the offer was first introduced, but we know it couldn't have been later...my own thoughts: these might have been offers originally presented immediately AFTER the holidays, but, perhaps, they are offers presented DURING THE HOLIDAYS to boost sales. I'm not sure.
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Ya know thinking about it... I know it was far more important in the TG16's case but as far as pack-ins they absolutely killed it with the Duo didn't they?
Specifically the one with Ninja Spirit as the pack-in hucard. Ninja Spirit, Ys 1/2, Bonk 1/2, and Gate of Thunder... Wow. Maybe it was desperation and too late but that might just be the best pack-in game set that I can think of.
Honorable mentions:
Genesis w/ Sonic 1/2
Super Nintendo w/ All Stars / World (bonus points if Wal Mart strapped a Super Games Boy to it.
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Ya know thinking about it... I know it was far more important in the TG16's case but as far as pack-ins they absolutely killed it with the Duo didn't they?
Specifically the one with Ninja Spirit as the pack-in hucard. Ninja Spirit, Ys 1/2, Bonk 1/2, and Gate of Thunder... Wow. Maybe it was desperation and too late but that might just be the best pack-in game set that I can think of.
Honorable mentions:
Genesis w/ Sonic 1/2
Super Nintendo w/ All Stars / World (bonus points if Wal Mart strapped a Super Games Boy to it.
The NA TurboDUO pack-ins destroy all other pack-ins, but I feel like it was not the same as a the launch of a brand-new platform, so it wasn't exactly the same as the initial launch pack-ins for NES, TG-16, Genesis, Sega-CD, etc. that literally introduced a platform to North America.
That is, I am making a distinction between the huge category of "pack-in games in general" vs. "pack-in for initial-launch-only"
Both categories are interesting to discuss :)
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Black Tiger, even when I agree with you on some things, you always say I'm wrong. It's getting old.
Keith Courage was a terrible pack in, I agree. But R-Type isn't necessarily the best choice. As Grolt said, R-Type is not an accessible game for the average person.
Please don't act like Astayanax is a good nes game. It's absolute trash and certainly doesn't deserve its underrated status it has been receiving lately. Legendary Axe is a very different, and much better game in every aspect. An A class game.
By that same logic, why do you think R-Type is a good choice when you already know it came out on the master system.
The people who gave Legendary Axe such glowing reviews compared the game to Rastan. That's something you can't disprove.
People wanted platformers more than shooters in the Anerican market. Mario, mega man and castlevania were all very popular. So was Gradius, but it didn't create a wave of copycats like Mario did.
Let's not forget that R-Type actually received some negative complaints. NEC was getting a large amount of calls from people upset about the flicker in the game. Legendary Axe didn't have any technical problems.
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The short answer is that until Bonk's Adventure came out there was no "perfect" Pack-in.
I think the four best launch window games, R-Type, Blazing Lazers, Alien Crush and Legendary Axe are too niche in appeal.
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They did, and he was.
(1) TG-16 + Bonk's Adventure + Keith Courage (I'm looking for ad...)
(2) TG-16 + Bonk's Revenge + Keith Courage = $99.99 (early 1992?)
http://archives.tg-16.com/EB/EB_1992_03_021.jpg
Nice! I remember being a bit disappointed that I got Keith Courage in Alpha Zones with mine and had to buy Bonk's Adventure separately.
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People wanted platformers more than shooters in the Anerican market. Mario, mega man and castlevania were all very popular. So was Gradius, but it didn't create a wave of copycats like Mario did.
I guess technically you're right. It was Scramble that created the wave of copycats, and Gradius was riding high. Gradius, Twinbee, and Xevious all sold over a million NES carts.
Granted that's not system-selling numbers compared to the Mario sequels, Tetris, or Metroid, but it's respectable.
I think were I running NEC with hindsight for my benefit, I'd release just a console, no pack-in title, but give out a coupon for one of three choices: Power Golf, Keith Courage, or Legendary Axe. As soon as Bonk hit the shelves, that would be the pack-in game, not unlike how Sega switched out Altered Beast for Sonic the Hedgehog.
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...
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They did, and he was.
(1) TG-16 + Bonk's Adventure + Keith Courage (I'm looking for ad...)
(2) TG-16 + Bonk's Revenge + Keith Courage = $99.99 (early 1992?)
http://archives.tg-16.com/EB/EB_1992_03_021.jpg
Nice! I remember being a bit disappointed that I got Keith Courage in Alpha Zones with mine and had to buy Bonk's Adventure separately.
^ gheebee! I updated that post with a link to 1991? Bonk's Adventure free w/ system
NOTE: Sadly, sending away for a free game is NOT the same as a pack-in...I'm not sure the items I linked to are actual "pack-ins" vs. "wait several weeks/months for mail delivery"
People wanted platformers more than shooters in the Anerican market. Mario, mega man and castlevania were all very popular. So was Gradius, but it didn't create a wave of copycats like Mario did.
I guess technically you're right. It was Scramble that created the wave of copycats, and Gradius was riding high. Gradius, Twinbee, and Xevious all sold over a million NES carts.
Granted that's not system-selling numbers compared to the Mario sequels, Tetris, or Metroid, but it's respectable.
I think were I running NEC with hindsight for my benefit, I'd release just a console, no pack-in title, but give out a coupon for one of three choices: Power Golf, Keith Courage, or Legendary Axe. As soon as Bonk hit the shelves, that would be the pack-in game, not unlike how Sega switched out Altered Beast for Sonic the Hedgehog.
You want a person to be able to play the console immediately!
You can still have a free game giveaway (based on person's preferences), but IT IS SO MUCH MORE FUN TO PLAY IMMEDIATELY!
:)
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Personally, if we're only talking about Turbo games, then I would have to go with Legendary Axe. They needed a good platformer to start off with, and Axe is unanimously better than KC. I think it definitely has the biggest "wow" factor of all the launch games, and the Conan-esque theme would have vibed better with US audiences than the somewhat whacky Japanese theme of Keith Courage.
If time weren't a factor, I think Genji Tsuushin Agedama would have made for a much better localization for a U.S. Pack-in than KC. It's based on an equally-relevant anime/manga series, but is probably about twice as fun. It's also way less unforgiving difficulty-wise (some might say too easy) and better graphically.
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I feel like we just talked about this not a week or two ago, but I think KC was a pretty perfect fit. It's what sold me on the TG-16 from the TV commercials, so it at least worked on my young gullible ass. And I had a reasonably good time playing through it despite some overworld tedium.
R-type, on the other hand I remember getting pretty pissed at, even though I eventually beat it through sheer determination. I feel like it would have made a lot of unhappy kids because of it's difficulty.
Dungeon Explorer would have been a great choice, but as someone pointed out, a little on the graphically unimpressive side. Still, a title I enjoyed playing a lot. In retrospect, this is the game I would have liked to get with the system given the choice.
I personally got Alien Crush right away as my extra game when I got the TG-16, so I loved it, but a pinball pack-in just wasn't right for the overall gaming populace at that point. I think it had to be a platformer considering the competition at the time. And Legendary Axe would have been a great alternative to Keith, can't deny that.
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Some people like to say that R-Type was on SMS and therefore that somehow ruins it as a pack-in and how the TurboGrafx-16 really needed an exclusive arcade port pack-in like Altered Beast...
-which was alson on SMS. :roll:
Apples and oranges there. Altered Beast is a SEGA property and had brand exclusivity - it wasn't on any competing consoles (in the US). R-Type was previously released (in a pretty solid port, nonetheless) on an older, less powerful SEGA console. In addition, Altered Beast on the SMS is a severely handcuffed game - it is missing multiple levels, single-player only and a huge step down in graphics. If anything, having a far inferior version of Altered Beast on an older console only helped SEGA to tout the power of their new system. Looking at R-Type, many praise Compile's work in porting the game to the SMS - it's the complete game (which the PC Engine can't even claim, at least on a HuCard) and even adds in a bonus level not found in the arcade or the TG-16 port. There's no question the TG-16 version is graphically superior, but it's far less impressive of a jump than Altered Beast SMS to Genesis, and many would argue the SMS's FM sound is more appealing than the sound on the TG-16 version. In my opinion, even if R-Type were a far better game on the TG-16 (which it is not), launching with a game found on the competition's system (that's 5 years older than your current flagship) just cannot happen.
Ignoring the entire Altered Beast/R-Type port debate, shooters, especially at that time, were far more niche than platformers or action games. There's a higher barrier for entry, since those games are generally more difficult (and in R-Type's case, definitely) than your typical platformer or hack and slash game. Plop a kid in front of Keith Courage and s/he could do okay, but R-Type would be over in a matter of seconds. Even though it's an inferior game, Keith Courage would have more appeal to a broader audience than R-Type, which I'm sure weighed on NEC's decision.
The topic is about what pack-in the TurboGrafx-16 should have launched with. The PC Engine versions have nothing to do with this discussion, aside from the impact the game had for the PCE.
Most people in North America did not know that the Sega Master System even existed. The SMS also does not have FM sound. Altered Beast is a slow clunky game in any form. R-Type TG-16 is at least as much of an improvement over the SMS version and delivers much more of an arcade experience.
I rented a Genesis with Altered Beast at launch and got one by the end of the year. Altered Beast looked poor in color and shading and created the impression for me that the Genesis was like the NES and had weird unique color limitations. Altered Beast was a newer arcade, but was just gimmicky and not the kind of long lasting hit that R-Type was, nor was it as influential (or at all). R-Type has a major place in gaming hostory. Altered Beast is only remembered for being the initial pack-in of a console that eventually became successful, right around the time they dropped Altered Beast as the pack-in.
Shooters weren't niche until late in the 16-bit generation. When the Genesis and TG-16 launched, shooters were just considered normal games. R-Type is only really difficult for people used to loose games and refuse to pay attention. At the time, R-Type was easier than many NES games.
I'm one of the few people who appreciate Keith Courage and it was part of what converted me from Genesis as it had the things I had really wanted in next gen games that I wasn't getting on Genesis. I totally get why they picked it and think it's much better as a game and pack-in than Altered Beast. From a business perspective, R-Type makes the most sense as a pack-in from what was available. Altered Beast got tired quick. It didn't work out well for the consumer. It's impact was simply luring in people to buy the console. R-Type was at least as attractive. The fact that the end user would get more value out of it isn't as important.
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Some people like to say that R-Type was on SMS and therefore that somehow ruins it as a pack-in and how the TurboGrafx-16 really needed an exclusive arcade port pack-in like Altered Beast...
-which was alson on SMS. :roll:
Apples and oranges there. Altered Beast is a SEGA property and had brand exclusivity - it wasn't on any competing consoles (in the US). R-Type was previously released (in a pretty solid port, nonetheless) on an older, less powerful SEGA console. In addition, Altered Beast on the SMS is a severely handcuffed game - it is missing multiple levels, single-player only and a huge step down in graphics. If anything, having a far inferior version of Altered Beast on an older console only helped SEGA to tout the power of their new system. Looking at R-Type, many praise Compile's work in porting the game to the SMS - it's the complete game (which the PC Engine can't even claim, at least on a HuCard) and even adds in a bonus level not found in the arcade or the TG-16 port. There's no question the TG-16 version is graphically superior, but it's far less impressive of a jump than Altered Beast SMS to Genesis, and many would argue the SMS's FM sound is more appealing than the sound on the TG-16 version. In my opinion, even if R-Type were a far better game on the TG-16 (which it is not), launching with a game found on the competition's system (that's 5 years older than your current flagship) just cannot happen.
Ignoring the entire Altered Beast/R-Type port debate, shooters, especially at that time, were far more niche than platformers or action games. There's a higher barrier for entry, since those games are generally more difficult (and in R-Type's case, definitely) than your typical platformer or hack and slash game. Plop a kid in front of Keith Courage and s/he could do okay, but R-Type would be over in a matter of seconds. Even though it's an inferior game, Keith Courage would have more appeal to a broader audience than R-Type, which I'm sure weighed on NEC's decision.
The topic is about what pack-in the TurboGrafx-16 should have launched with. The PC Engine versions have nothing to do with this discussion, aside from the impact the game had for the PCE.
Most people in North America did not know that the Sega Master System even existed. The SMS also does not have FM sound. Altered Beast is a slow clunky game in any form. R-Type TG-16 is at least as much of an improvement over the SMS version and delivers much more of an arcade experience.
I rented a Genesis with Altered Beast at launch and got one by the end of the year. Altered Beast looked poor in color and shading and created the impression for me that the Genesis was like the NES and had weird unique color limitations. Altered Beast was a newer arcade, but was just gimmicky and not the kind of long lasting hit that R-Type was, nor was it as influential (or at all). R-Type has a major place in gaming hostory. Altered Beast is only remembered for being the initial pack-in of a console that eventually became successful, right around the time they dropped Altered Beast as the pack-in.
Shooters weren't niche until late in the 16-bit generation. When the Genesis and TG-16 launched, shooters were just considered normal games. R-Type is only really difficult for people used to loose games and refuse to pay attention. At the time, R-Type was easier than many NES games.
I'm one of the few people who appreciate Keith Courage and it was part of what converted me from Genesis as it had the things I had really wanted in next gen games that I wasn't getting on Genesis. I totally get why they picked it and think it's much better as a game and pack-in than Altered Beast. From a business perspective, R-Type makes the most sense as a pack-in from what was available. Altered Beast got tired quick. It didn't work out well for the consumer. It's impact was simply luring in people to buy the console. R-Type was at least as attractive. The fact that the end user would get more value out of it isn't as important.
The SMS was a distant second compared to the NES, but people still knew of it. Certainly SEGA as a brand through its successful arcade division had a lot more cache with US buyers at the time than NEC or Hudson, and if someone is buying a system other than an NES in 1989, they'd likely be informed enough to know what games are on the systems, since early adopters tend to be more savvy. Someone who knew what R-Type was would very likely know it was not an NEC exclusive.
Technically, yes, the US SMS could not play FM, but Japanese SMS's and MarkIII's (with the FM adapter) could play them, and even the US carts of R-Type do contain the FM tracks. I play the FM tracks on my US R-Type all the time on my SMS. I was more mentioning the FM music to support my claim that the SMS R-Type is no slouch and in ways just as impressive as the TG-16 version. If you've played both versions of Altered Beast and R-Type between the 8-bit and 16-bit consoles, there is no question that Altered Beast is a much bigger leap on the Genesis than R-Type was to the TG-16. The SMS version of Altered Beast isn't even close to the full game! There's virtually nothing missing from the SMS R-Type.
If you look at the best selling games of the previous generation, they are dominated by platformers or action games. Mario, Ghosts n' Goblins, Metroid, Castlevania, DuckTales, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mega Man, Kirby's Adventure, Blaster Master, Commando, Adventure Island. You have to go a long ways down best-selling lists to find your Xeviouses, 1942s or Gradiuses.
From a business sense platformers or action games are perfect for a new console. They can be enjoyed by novice gamers and advanced gamers, and in Altered Beast's case, I'd argue that it getting tired quick is exactly what SEGA wanted. People would appreciate the arcade port and the power of the system, but quickly finish or grow tired with the game and look to buy a new one, increasing software sales. R-Type would have alienated younger gamers and would have kept hardcore gamers out of Toys R Us longer as they'd work their way through the game and its nuances.
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^ gheebee! I updated that post with a link to 1991? Bonk's Adventure free w/ system
NOTE: Sadly, sending away for a free game is NOT the same as a pack-in...I'm not sure the items I linked to are actual "pack-ins" vs. "wait several weeks/months for mail delivery"
Now that I see it I think I remember that free Bonk's Adventure ad from comic books ages ago, as well as others; I'll probably be trying to find the others on that site later on now. Sounds like neither was actually packed in but Bonk's Adventure seems as good as pack in since you didn't have to mail away for it; I wonder if it was in the regular retail box or just the hu card case like Keith Courage if you got it that way.
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Some good stuff in here, and I picked a pack with DE simply for the fact it would have solved the 1 controller port issue...yes it's not a graphical powerhouse, but it's still a fantastic multiplayer game.
Bomberman wasn't readily available at the time (or was it) that would have been my other go to for a multiplayer pack in.
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Bonk was probably the best overall choice, but the mail in portion wasnt a great move. I was sold on the system with blazing lazers in my youth, nice graphics, sound, and music, and the difficulty wasnt over the top. Keith courage was good for what it was, but something more like neutopia may have been a better game to promote. The biggest challenge for the system was games that had good play length. In an age when most games could be cleared in an hour or two, a game that offered a long playthrough was seen as progress from the slew of arcade ports.
Btw, who hasnt heard of rastan? I restore arcade games, and almost half of the conversions from that time period are rastan kits. It was an extremely popular title, and bizarre that it didnt see a home port.
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Rastan was on the master system, and got a Taito developed version on the msx as well.
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Yup yup, totally forgot that. Seems like it should have seen a few more systems.
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NOTE: there was another thread recently about this topic.
(1) In the other thread, Blazing Lazers came up a few times as a good pack-in because the difficulty ramps up nicely and the music/graphics really do look "ARCADE QUALITY". Personally, this was the game that convinced me to get TG-16.
(2) Rastan was very popular and in every arcade and lots of smaller venues (ice rink, roller rink, pizza parlors, bowling alleys, etc.) here in NJ/NYC back in the day.
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I played Rastan at a campground I went to as a kid. (in MD) That first stage music is seared into my brain forever, it's that great. The 1st sequel is really disappointing, though. Part 3 is pretty cool but feels completely different than part 1 as it's just a Golden Axe copy at that point.
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Call me crazy, but I think Aliens Crush would have been a nice pack in. Why? Well it's got Aliens in it! :P Now as far as the Duo launch, I would have bundled it with a 6 button controller and put Street Fighter 2 along with Dracula X but considering we didn't get those (and they came out mid 93) here what was included was more than enough IMHO.
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Call me crazy, but I think Aliens Crush would have been a nice pack in. Why? Well it's got Aliens in it! :P Now as far as the Duo launch, I would have bundled it with a 6 button controller and put Street Fighter 2 along with Dracula X but considering we didn't get those (and they came out mid 93) here what was included was more than enough IMHO.
Alien Crush is awesome. I just think pinball, even with awesome music + Aliens, was too niche for average kid. :(
Appealing to a wide audience is tough.
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Ninja Spirit. it's a near-perfect arcade port. it would have really demonstrated the capability of the system at a time when graphics and system specs really mattered to consumers. this was a marketing tactic used with the original genesis pack-in, altered beast. it was far from a good port, but it had great graphics for its time and sold a lot of systems early on in the genesis life-cycle which was what it needed to gain a foothold in the us.
Ninja Spirit is a game from years into the future. Wouldn't SFII' have been a much better pack-in?
Well, I thought this was a hypothetical exercise (ideal world, etc..). I tend to believe system exclusives should be the pack-in, but SFII would have sold a lot of consoles had it been the pack-in for the Duo.
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Keith Courage isn't that bad of a pack-in choice, but JJ & Jeff or Son Son II would've been better.
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Of the games available at launch, The Legendary Axe would have been the best choice as a pack-in.
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Call me crazy, but I think Aliens Crush would have been a nice pack in. Why? Well it's got Aliens in it! :P Now as far as the Duo launch, I would have bundled it with a 6 button controller and put Street Fighter 2 along with Dracula X but considering we didn't get those (and they came out mid 93) here what was included was more than enough IMHO.
This is part of why I think that R-Type would have been best at convincing people to buy the system. The film Aliens was still fresh in people's minds and a hot video rental. People too young to remember likely don't realize the impact the film had. R-Type had the coolest alien designs, eerie yet heavy and motivational music (backed by good use of the sound chip) , faithful visuals and gameplay of a popular arcade and was more appealing to older players.
Looking at what made the Genesis stand out at the time, something more like R-Type and less like something aimed at younger children was what was needed. Of course, the marketing was most important. The TG-16 should have had side-by-side arcade footage comparisons like the Genesis used in commercials. Being able to show R-Type looking much more like the arcade than Genesis' arcade ports and having the voice over exclaim how it comes packed in with every TG-16 system would have been very effective.
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I could definitely see R-Type as the pack-in game, as well. The point of a pack-in game (to me) is to show off the capabilities of the system, to be an attractant to motivate people to purchase the system, and to give the consumer something that reinforces their purchasing decision once they get home. R-Type fills those needs while KC fails on all three, in my opinion.
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I wonder if they tried running the game at 256 pixel-wide resolution.
I also wonder if millions of copies of early SNES games were returned because they didn't run at normal or consistent speeds.
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I wonder if they tried running the game at 256 pixel-wide resolution.
I also wonder if millions of copies of early SNES games were returned because they didn't run at normal or consistent speeds.
I hear you.
I actually like Gradius III on SNES, but that game was soooooo sloooow at times that I honestly wondered if it was about to eject itself from my SNES!
How many returns did Gradius III have?
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I wonder if they tried running the game at 256 pixel-wide resolution.
I also wonder if millions of copies of early SNES games were returned because they didn't run at normal or consistent speeds.
I hear you.
I actually like Gradius III on SNES, but that game was soooooo sloooow at times that I honestly wondered if it was about to eject itself from my SNES!
How many returns did Gradius III have?
Instead of returns, the SNES only spawned the first generation of Nintendo zealots like A Black Falcon, who reverse engineer reality to claim that Super Gradius III is the best and definitive version and that when slowdown happens frequently enough, it becomes the new standard and is in fact creating new and superior gameplay experiences. I really wish that was sarcasm and not literally a sampling of ABF's cross-forum preaching over the years.
If the SMS had been about as successful as the NES in North America, we would have had these guys a generation earlier. But the SNES not only being the first Nintendo console with real competition, but coming in late to the party and underperforming out of the gate, led to the first generation of console fanboys since perhaps the pre-8-bit generation. The Nintendo 64 following right after under similar circumstances but lacking the quality library of the previous Nintendo consoles, only hardened their resolve.
It's unfortunate, because I find that most blind fanboys don't really appreciate the SNES library and spend most of their time defending its lackluster games or praising the typical top game list entries, instead of discovering all the great games that receive little fanfare, which they are completely oblivious to.
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I wonder if they tried running the game at 256 pixel-wide resolution.
I also wonder if millions of copies of early SNES games were returned because they didn't run at normal or consistent speeds.
I hear you.
I actually like Gradius III on SNES, but that game was soooooo sloooow at times that I honestly wondered if it was about to eject itself from my SNES!
How many returns did Gradius III have?
Instead of returns, the SNES only spawned the first generation of Nintendo zealots like A Black Falcon, who reverse engineer reality to claim that Super Gradius III is the best and definitive version and that when slowdown happens frequently enough, it becomes the new standard and is in fact creating new and superior gameplay experiences. I really wish that was sarcasm and not literally a sampling of ABF's cross-forum preaching over the years.
If the SMS had been about as successful as the NES in North America, we would have had these guys a generation earlier. But the SNES not only being the first Nintendo console with real competition, but coming in late to the party and underperforming out of the gate, led to the first generation of console fanboys since perhaps the pre-8-bit generation. The Nintendo 64 following right after under similar circumstances but lacking the quality library of the previous Nintendo consoles, only hardened their resolve.
It's unfortunate, because I find that most blind fanboys don't really appreciate the SNES library and spend most of their time defending its lackluster games or praising the typical top game list entries, instead of discovering all the great games that receive little fanfare, which they are completely oblivious to.
It's amazing how true this is, especially the last part. My best friend would fawn endlessly over LttP, Secret of Mana, and Crono Trigger, but didn't bat an eye at Brain Lord, Alcahest, or even Terranigma. I'll never understand the closed-mindedness of gamers.
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I wonder if they tried running the game at 256 pixel-wide resolution.
I also wonder if millions of copies of early SNES games were returned because they didn't run at normal or consistent speeds.
I hear you.
I actually like Gradius III on SNES, but that game was soooooo sloooow at times that I honestly wondered if it was about to eject itself from my SNES!
How many returns did Gradius III have?
Instead of returns, the SNES only spawned the first generation of Nintendo zealots like A Black Falcon, who reverse engineer reality to claim that Super Gradius III is the best and definitive version and that when slowdown happens frequently enough, it becomes the new standard and is in fact creating new and superior gameplay experiences. I really wish that was sarcasm and not literally a sampling of ABF's cross-forum preaching over the years.
If the SMS had been about as successful as the NES in North America, we would have had these guys a generation earlier. But the SNES not only being the first Nintendo console with real competition, but coming in late to the party and underperforming out of the gate, led to the first generation of console fanboys since perhaps the pre-8-bit generation. The Nintendo 64 following right after under similar circumstances but lacking the quality library of the previous Nintendo consoles, only hardened their resolve.
It's unfortunate, because I find that most blind fanboys don't really appreciate the SNES library and spend most of their time defending its lackluster games or praising the typical top game list entries, instead of discovering all the great games that receive little fanfare, which they are completely oblivious to.
I hear you :)
However, I want to go on the record to state that, IMHO, Gradius III is not broken by slowdown/flicker, I actually enjoy playing it.
My reasoning is simple: the presence of flicker/slowdown, in and of itself, does not ruin a game. Some of the best NES games have moments of flicker/slowdown that do not cause any real harm. If slowdown/flicker creates an inherently unfair situation, then I can't excuse it. But I have never had this problem with, say, Konami's games.
It's true: I fantasized that Konami would have revisited Gradius III and released a "remixed" version that included the + "original" SNES version in a new "improved" form (optimizing/streamlining code to reduced flicker/slowdown)...but that was nothing but a daydream.
HOWEVER, none of the aforementioned should be used to Fan the Flames of Fanbois.
:)
ASIDE: I do find it amusing that we (PCE community) are probably seen/labeled as fanbois for simply suggesting that PCE games are not inherently weaker than SNES/MegaDrive libraries.
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Don't let the spirit of Sega-16 seep into this forum, where any discussion that mentions any technical thing turns into a fanboy dig at SNES accompanied by the usual strawman attacks.
Don't be like the Sega Babies.
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On the topic of Rastan, the PCE should have gotten a port of the first not the second which is abysmal, and even worse still is the third, WTF happened...
Also sorry for repeating a topic, didn't know it was discussed recently.
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Nothing is worse than Rastan II, nothing. III is a decent beatemup with great sprites. Not bad at all. Apparently no one who worked on Rastan had anything to do with the sequel, which is kinda funny.
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Totally agree. Rastan 2 was the worst. But is it worse than china warrior?
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Some people like the slowdown as it makes games easier.
Over the weekend I had some friends over, one of whom wanted to try the PAL TurboGrafx to see if it made playing a particularly tough game easier.
I think this is why I don't mind it in Gradius III, ha!
So, did PAL make the TG-16 games easier?
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I think this is why I don't mind it in Gradius III, ha!
So, did PAL make the TG-16 games easier?
See for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXshF5NFfto
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I think this is why I don't mind it in Gradius III, ha!
So, did PAL make the TG-16 games easier?
See for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXshF5NFfto
Tatsujin is still challenging, even @PAL, ha!
THOUGHTS
(1) I'm good at the "tunnels" in AeroBlasters, but dodging in those mazes of tunnels would probably be much easier @PAL.
(2) •••••• Anyway: the shootemups that work "best" with @PAL are ones that allow you to adjust speed and/or collect tons of speed-ups...you could probably crush games by achieving a "normal" speed for your fighter, but with all opponents and projectiles slowed down by __% @PAL (I forget, is @PAL 10-15% slower?). ••••••••
(3)?However, even the music is slowed down @PAL, correct? That would probably irk me.
NOTE: I was going to use "@" gratuitously throughout this post.
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(3)?However, even the music is slowed down @PAL, correct? That would probably irk me.
NOTE: I was going to use "@" gratuitously through this post.
Yeah, the music is slowed down on all the games we tried which were entirely limited to shooters. But we noticed that with Tatsujin, Raiden, R-Type, etc.
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In response to the original post - I'd say R-Type or Ninja Spirit. Shows off the parallax and proves that the system is just as good (or superior) to the Genesis' releases of '89. Then they'd pick up Legendary Axe or whatever other type of games at launch to complete a nice launch day.
On a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.
Second side note - Keith Courage is a better game than Altered Beast, but nobody knew what it was.. If Keith had an arcade release in 1988 or early 1989 it's possible that it would have generated some interest....
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On a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.
With the black and orange color scheme the system always reminded me of Halloween in the first place.
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On a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.
With the black and orange color scheme the system always reminded me of Halloween in the first place.
Yes, Every year, a different free game with lots of merchandise give-aways and themed promotions would have been great:
1989 XMAS = Legendary Axe (Jagu magnifying glass)
1990 Holiday = Splatterhouse (Rick Masks + wristbands)
1991 Holidaze = Bonk's Adventure (headbands + aspirin bottles)
1992 Hollandaise = Bonk's Revenge (switchblade mustache comb)
1993 Haul-n-Day = Bonk 3 (Raspberry Beret, fanny pack)
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On a side note, I've always thought NEC should've released a set with Splatterhouse to coincide with the 1990 Halloween to holiday season to grab the older crowd.
With the black and orange color scheme the system always reminded me of Halloween in the first place.
Yes, Every year, a different free game with lots of merchandise give-aways and themed promotions would have been great:
1989 XMAS = Legendary Axe (Jagu magnifying glass)
1990 Holiday = Splatterhouse (Rick Masks + wristbands)
1991 Holidaze = Bonk's Adventure (headbands + aspirin bottles)
1992 Hollandaise = Bonk's Revenge (switchblade mustache comb)
1993 Haul-n-Day = Bonk 3 (Raspberry Beret, fanny pack)
1994 U-Haul Day = Magical Chase (Magicoal pack in, Broomstick)
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I've always thought Altered Beasts was a very mediocre game. I've never exactly understood why websites make statements like "Altered Beasts is a triumph of programming compared to Kieth Courage." I always thought it was boring and bad. That being said, Kieth Courage isn't the greatest game either. Of the initial offerings, I think Legendary Axe would probably be the best as a platformer was clearly the way to go in that time period. That being said, Blazing Lazers was the game that sold me on the turbo.
In magical fantasy land, if you really wanted to compete against Sega in a bid to capture slightly older audiences with an arcade game with some maturity, it would have been cool if Splatterhouse had come out a year earlier and had been included. Splatterhouse blows Altered Beasts out of the water on just about every conceivable level.
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I first played Altered Beast in the arcade when I was a kid, and it was decidedly cool but not that deep of a game really so it wasn't exciting as a Genesis pack-in to me. My older cousin got the Genny when it first came out, and got a bunch of the release (or close to release) titles that I remember so much more fondly like Thunderforce 2, Last Battle (I might be the only one who likes this game), Ghouls n' Ghosts, and Space Harrier II. (Admittedly not as good as I had hoped being a huge Space Harrier fan at the time)
Given the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me. KC had the anime vibe (and mecha vibe) I was completely into at the time, it also had the underdog appeal and was the least common and most unique among my friends, and that mentality has always worked for me. (I also liked the music and underworld stages a ton, it wasn't all elitist appeal, I honestly liked the game) I think the last cool Mario platformer to me was SMB3, I just always felt SMW is where everything got washed out and since then, Mario games have just been getting more and more infantile.
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Given the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me.
What the f*ck...
Even Altered Beast is better.
I never thought the day would come where someone thought a 3rd rate Wonder Boy clone was better than one of the highest rated platformers of all time.
I'm not much of an SNES person, but Mario World is in a league of its own. Few platformers on any of the three systems reach its level.
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Given the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me.
What the f*ck...
Even Altered Beast is better.
I disagree, what can I say? Most beat em' up type games get pretty old after a few plays, and I think KC is an alright game, even if it's not a masterpiece. Or.... is it?
(http://www.sauceauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/IMG_1970-1016x1024.jpeg)
The sauce doesn't lie, friend.
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Altered beast was a good show-off title that looked good and was modestly fun. Thats a good pack in. Keith courage just didnt look impressive. I can still remember the kiosk in toys r us. The game looked dorky and the packaging for the turbo grafx looked dumb. It reminds me of the side art for the nintendo super system (just awful)! I agree that r-type is an impressive looking title with the large boss for the money shot, but the game is hard, and would have easily turned away new players. Despite my misgivings on keith courage, im not sure if there was anything else at the time worth pairing with it.
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Given the choice between Super Mario World, Keith Courage, and Altered Beast, I think Keith was still the best pack-in out of the 3 for me.
What the f*ck...
Even Altered Beast is better.
I never thought the day would come where someone thought a 3rd rate Wonder Boy clone was better than one of the highest rated platformers of all time.
I'm not much of an SNES person, but Mario World is in a league of its own. Few platformers on any of the three systems reach its level.
Missed your edit! I never said KC was better than SMW without adding "for me." I just feel it's a bland looking and feeling entry especially after SMB2 and SMB3 which I think had a lot of character in comparison. I recognize SMW's pedigree but personally it just doesn't excite me. I wouldn't call KC a Wonder Boy clone, either.
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Altered beast was a good show-off title that looked good and was modestly fun. Thats a good pack in. Keith courage just didnt look impressive. I can still remember the kiosk in toys r us. The game looked dorky and the packaging for the turbo grafx looked dumb. It reminds me of the side art for the nintendo super system (just awful)! I agree that r-type is an impressive looking title with the large boss for the money shot, but the game is hard, and would have easily turned away new players. Despite my misgivings on keith courage, im not sure if there was anything else at the time worth pairing with it.
I remember being 8 years old, seeing the rainbow colors lift Keith Courage into the air, followed by the ever growing larger sprite of the mech suit. Then seeing the mech levels and being blown away. Then hearing the mech stage music, seeing the detailed graphics and how fast it moved. It was clear this was a generation ahead of the industry standard NES.
I think it was a good showpiece game. Yes, the overworld segments aren't great looking but once the surprise of the robot suit transformation happens all of a sudden it had peoples complete attention at least for a little while.
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Yeah, the correct answer really is Legendary Axe. I don't care for the game too much -- I probably actually like Keith Courage more -- but Legendary Axe was popular and got awards, while Keith Courage has been hated on for decades, so the correct choice is clear. Legendary Axe has better graphics too, certainly.
I'd like to say that the best answer is R-Type -- it's clearly the best game of the three (and those three are the obvious top choices for packin games) and it looks absolutely amazing (clearly a generation ahead of stuff like the SMS version) -- but as incredible as R-Type is, it is more of a love-or-hate game thanks to its difficulty level, so I can understand the reasons to go for a platformer instead. But R-Type as the pack in would have been an interesting thing to see...
Don't let the spirit of Sega-16 seep into this forum, where any discussion that mentions any technical thing turns into a fanboy dig at SNES accompanied by the usual strawman attacks.
Agreed.
Instead of returns, the SNES only spawned the first generation of Nintendo zealots like A Black Falcon, who reverse engineer reality to claim that Super Gradius III is the best and definitive version and that when slowdown happens frequently enough, it becomes the new standard and is in fact creating new and superior gameplay experiences. I really wish that was sarcasm and not literally a sampling of ABF's cross-forum preaching over the years.
Seriously, stop it with the personal attacks, as Gentlegamer said there's far too much of that at Sega-16.
But to talk about Gradius games in general, I love the whole Gradius series, it's amazing and my favorite shmup franchise by a mile! Gradius is my favorite shmup on the NES, Gradius II is my favorite shmup on the Turbo CD, Gradius III is my favorite shmup on the SNES, Gradius: The Interstellar Assault is my favorite shmup on the Game Boy, Gradius V is my favorite shmup on the PS2, Gradius Gaiden is at least one of the best shmups on PS1, Gradius ReBirth is my favorite shmup on the Wii (not including Virtual Console)... the series in general is amazing and has been my favorite series in the genre ever since I played, and loved, the original Gradius back probably in the late '80s.
For Gradius III in particular if you can't handle the slowdown that's too bad, but it's as great a game as any other game in the series.
Oh yeah, and I know that I've said that Gradius III is my favorite 4th-gen shmup, but actually, that's not entirely true; if we include the nostalgia factor, there's only one possible answer to that question:" Gradius: The Interstellar Assault for the Game Boy! I didn't own a SNES until 2005, remember. Gradius III isn't a game I had played much of until the '00s. I loved the original Gradius for the NES when I'd played it, but the first Gradius game I owned myself was Interstellar Assault, and I'd still rank it as one of my favorites in the genre. Probably the main reason I mention Gradius III as better is because the SNES game has probably twice as many levels and is many times harder than the short and fairly easy Interstellar Assault; as incredible a game as it is, it is pretty short and easy, or maybe it's just easy because I've beaten it so many times; I've probably finished that game more than almost any other game I've ever played, I absolutely love it. Gradius III, though? Haven't played it much in some years now, since beating it back in the late '00s. So yeah, Gradius: The Interstellar Assault is one of my favorite shmups ever made. Exceptional game. I love everything about it other than its small number of levels. It has better boss variety than Gradius III, the levels connect and flow in a way not seen anywhere else in the series other than maybe Gradius V, it doesn't have much slowdown, etc.
And on a related note, it really wasn't until I got the Turbo CD version last year that I'd played much of Gradius II; I didn't see it in arcades, and in emulation and such hadn't really played it past that first level. I'd always wrongly overlooked it in favor of the newer Gradius III. And yeah, Gradius II is amazing. I don't know if I like it more than Gradius III, it's hard to say when looking at two games that are so incredibly great! Gradius II is a fantastic, fantastic game, and certainly is worth considering for best shmup of the generation. It might just be my new favorite shmup of the generation, in fact... though The Interstellar Assault is hard to beat, for me. :)
It's unfortunate, because I find that most blind fanboys don't really appreciate the SNES library and spend most of their time defending its lackluster games or praising the typical top game list entries, instead of discovering all the great games that receive little fanfare, which they are completely oblivious to.
Every successful console ever has its popular classics as well as its less popular great games that people don't know as much about despite their quality. There is nothing special about nay Nintendo platform in this regard, everything is like that.
Totally agree. Rastan 2 was the worst. But is it worse than china warrior?
I think that China Warrior is pretty bad... but no, it's not as bad as Rastan Saga II, no way. That game is so horrible, it's kind of bizarre that somehow they thought that would be an okay sequel to a great classic like Rastan...
(Oh, and on the TG16, I dislike Battle Royale and Takin' it to the Hoop even more than I do China Warrior. Maybe those are okay games if you learn how to play them, but on first impression I hate both of them and haven't really gone back. Jinmu Denshou (PCE) also is pretty horrendous.)
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Bloody Wolf or Blazing Lazers would have been great pack-in games.
Ninja spirit is just way too awesome to be just thrown in with the system for free.
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Bloody Wolf or Blazing Lazers would have been great pack-in games.
Ninja spirit is just way too awesome to be just thrown in with the system for free.
Blazing Lazers could have been an early pack-in, but Bloody Wolf and Ninja Spirit were released later (of course, they could have been pack-ins...just later in TG-16's lifespan).
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Blazing Lazers is one of the system's best games and would be a fantastic packin, yeah, but it wasn't one of the first games out... though it was a July '89 release in japan, so maybe a launch release could have been possible? It'd be close, though.
Anyway, what the TG16 needed the most was a Christmas '88 US release (with actual marketing) and a European release within a year or two, so Blazing Lazers is not ideal because it wasn't out yet in '88. :p (Legendary Axe and Keith Courage are both '88 releases in Japan. R-Type as well, but only the two-part Japanese release and not the combined US one; that larger cart size probably wouldn't be great as a packin anyway even if an earlier release was possible, it would release costs and Legendary Axe is probably better for the mass market since it's a sidescroller.
But yeah, if you're sticking with an '89 release, Blazing Lazers almost certainly is the best game the system had that year, in my opinion at least, so it'd be a fantastic packin.
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Esteban, nailed 'er bud.
Throw a jar of Marmite in there for an extra happy kid
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Blazing Lazers, R-Type woul've been excellent choices. Great graphics, sounds, and shooters were still more or less popular at the time. As for R-Type specifically, it was the best looking port and was a popular game with wide appeal. It doesn't matter that it was difficult, back then no one cared, you just played whatever you had as much as humanly possible!