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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: grolt on September 16, 2015, 08:05:48 AM
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Working my way through the TG-16 library, I've seen a few patterns of late - there seem to be a lot of games where the difficulty goes from reasonable, even easy, to suddenly cripplingly difficult from one level to the next. I'll share a few examples below, what other ones am I missing?
YO, BRO: You go from a handful of stationary hubs you have to defeat in one level to the dreaded Amoeba stage in the next. Where to begin...the amoeba are EVERYWHERE and they split and multiply the longer they are around. Normally you're killing around 6-8 enemies per level, but on this stage you'll kill at least 20 if you're ignoring saving kids and just going for the enemies. Having a ton of enemies to kill is bad enough, but there are a bunch of other factors working against your favor as well. There are now two dogs that, err, hound you down throughout, really slowing down your takedown of the amoebas. What makes it worse is that the majority of amoeba are in the docks close to the water, where maneuvering is difficult without falling into the water and dying, and also you cannot kill them with a regular shot because they will be sheltered by the docks or posts. Thus, the only way to really destroy all the enemies is to use your powerup weapons like the bazooka and homing missles - but those weapons are finite. Realistically, you only have one shot to defeat the level. If you come in with 17 lives that's fine, but once your stock of specialty ammo runs out (and this is assuming you've hoarded all the ammo from every level prior without ever using a single bullet) it will be impossible to complete the level and you will have to start over. Lastly, you'll be making a dent on the amoeba and getting close to clearing the stage, but because of the sheer quantity of bad guys on this level your time will inevitably run out, causing the craters to start falling at a quick pace to the point where you'll be killed from above if not from all the other enemies on the ground before. I really like this game despite the awkward controls, but the unreasonable difficulty spike on this level is maddening - I still can't get past it. "You like pain?"
CYBER-CORE: Stages 1-6 are a breeze, possible to complete without dying even once. Stage 7 becomes a little more challenging but it is still very beatable after a try or two once you learn the layout of the enemies. Stage 8, though, is an all out struggle to survive as little homing blue stars come from every which direction to pulverize your ship. It's waves upon waves of attrition until you're down to your last life trying to hang on - and then the final boss arrives, which has probably 3 times the hit points of any of the other bosses before him (her?). Even when you learn the patterns of the blue stars and the way to dodge them, there's still a large element of luck and chance because of the sheer number of enemies. It's brutal!
WORLD COURT TENNIS: I love this game, it's one of my favorites. The quest mode is such a cool twist on the typical attack-based RPG. Yet, the end boss is such a momentous increase in skill over everyone else you've played to that point that it nearly breaks the game for me. The green king has this superhuman speed, both in movement on the court and the speed with which he serves the ball. Even with all the extra powerups to slow his serve and increase your base stats, it's still a real workout, and the way the game makes you switch sides between sets makes it very tough to master (for me, I can keep up playing on the bottom, but when I'm at the top of the screen my timing gets all messed up).
What about you guys?
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Blazing Lazers does this, the first levels are a cake walk then brains can be a bit tricky, then the bubble stage unless you are fully powered than just FU for the rest....The same can be said for lords IF you do it clockwise, Also the end of gate is considerably harder than the core game itself.
JJ and Jeff and New Adventure island on the platforming side, it just gets stupid later on.
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Hypernova Blast really ramps up the difficulty towards the end. I can run through the first 175 levels or so without breaking a sweat, but it goes downhill fast for the final 25.
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Exile Wicked Phenomenon. I can't remember the boss it was cause I haven't played it in ages, but holy crap it took FOREVER to beat him. Thank you WD for your code tweaks to make the game better for the player.
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Super Star Soldier. The damn 4th stage boss kicks my ass every single time and I lose my stride completely. Though I may just be a giant baby and not even try after I get my ass beat by him.
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Just recently 1cced super star soldier, the robot boss is tough but the difficulty also really spikes in the last few levels. I basically had to beat the game without dying because one death on the last few levels is really tough to recover from, and dying on one of the forms of the last boss makes the brain at the end super difficult with the basic weapon.
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Blazing Lazers does this, the first levels are a cake walk then brains can be a bit tricky, then the bubble stage unless you are fully powered than just FU for the rest....
God damn bubbles...
The brains stage IMO are somewhat easy. The 5th stage... (The pyramid) level has been tough for me to get past. But Screw those damn bubbles man.... Also stage 6. That is pretty hard too.
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GROLT: love the topic!
Yo Bro: there are HIDDEN stockpiles of weapons that might be useful in hoarding weapons for the tough stages. I wish Yo Bro was given a bit more play testing and tweaking because I really do think it could have been (half?) as fun as Zombies Are My Neighbors. This game made me cry back in the day. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PROGRESS, I thought. I have never beaten this game. I will, one day.
Cyber Core: I love the last stage. There is trick! You can actually dodge those tiny little bastards, even if you don't have a speed up, but you have to be "in the zone" and operating on pure nerve-reflex. My trick is that I DODGE BEFORE I THINK I NEED TO. WHICH MEANS THAT AS SOON AS ONE PIXEL OF ENEMY IS ON SCREEN, BE PREPARED FOR---> hard left or hard right, as needed. The music in that stage is glorious and I love it.
Blazing Lazers: The difficulty does ramp up (in the last stage or two?), but BL is easy for me, though I probably put a billion hours in the game. YOU DO NOT NEED FULL WEAPONS for last stage (or any stage). You just need to constantly adjust SPEED + strategize with your peashooter. I love that this game is brilliantly designed to allow you to continue with peashooter + skills. I posted my strategies on past oats, no need to repeat myself.
Super Star Soldier: definitely a bit more challenging than GunHed/Blazing Lazers, but not nearly as frustrating as Yo Bro!
New Adventure Island/JJ & Jeff: the final few boards get ridiculous with the platforming gymnastics! JJ&Jeff for example, has invisible blocks that you must kick (to make them appear, and hop on!) before the block below you disappears! Hudson allows you a few milliseconds to do this. Crazy stuff. Same for NAI: you have to pull off precise timing and expertly placed jumps to progress.
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GROLT: love the topic!
Yo Bro: there are HIDDEN stockpiles of weapons that might be useful in hoarding weapons for the tough stages. I wish Yo Bro was given a bit more play testing and tweaking because I really do think it could have been (half?) as fun as Zombies Are My Neighbors. This game made me cry back in the day. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PROGRESS, I thought. I have never beaten this game. I will, one day.
Cyber Core: I love the last stage. There is trick! You can actually dodge those tiny little bastards, even if you don't have a speed up, but you have to be "in the zone" and operating on pure nerve-reflex. My trick is that I DODGE BEFORE I THINK I NEED TO. WHICH MEANS THAT AS SOON AS ONE PIXEL OF ENEMY IS ON SCREEN, BE PREPARED FOR---> hard left or hard right, as needed. The music in that stage is glorious and I love it.
Was there ever any kind of guide back in the day, like in a TurboPlay or some kind of hint book, for the hidden Yo, Bro rooms with the items? I know where the first level one is and where the Amoeba one is because out of frustration and defeat I just through bombs all over the level hoping I'd be able to find a ton of loot to give me one more chance at them before having to reset (there's not nearly enough supply in that level's secret room to do much of anything, really). I've been too lazy to find the other hidden rooms across the game, but a guide or a list with all the locations would be super helpful, and if there isn't one it might be something I make in the future. I agree, it has the foundation for a fun game (and the chiptunes Beach Boys songs rule!), and even the clunky controls can be overlooked, but it shoots itself in the foot solely by being too difficult. I always hate that when a perfectly playable game is ruined by something that could have been tweaked with the simple switching of one or two binary values to make the level playable.
For Cyber-Core, my technique to pass the level was to stay on and shoot up one side, and then when the remainder of the stars come from the other side just banana upwards to the top corner and back to dodge them. I'm not good enough to do those tight little maneuvers when so much else is going on around me.
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exile:wp was a result of deadlines
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I agree with everything said about Blazing Lazers. Also, Legendary Axe gets noticeably tougher at level 5.
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I wouldn't say Blazing Lazers has a difficulty "spike" per se. I think it does a good job progressively integrating the difficulty increases over the course of the game.
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I wouldn't say Blazing Lazers has a difficulty "spike" per se. I think it does a good job progressively integrating the difficulty increases over the course of the game.
Idk... Level 8 is so damn hard... Maybe its just not be having ya know however long it takes me to get to that point often to devote to it daily, but damn is it tough. Maybe i am just butthurt or something from the unable to get past it. Because noob.
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Exile Wicked Phenomenon. I can't remember the boss it was cause I haven't played it in ages, but holy crap it took FOREVER to beat him. Thank you WD for your code tweaks to make the game better for the player.
Are you thinking about the boss in the Egyptian temple? I timed that one once and it took me a half an hour to beat him with Rumi. Same with the next to last boss who floated on a cloud.
I got the PC Engine version to compare difficulty. I beat the entire game in 2 hours.
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F u RType level 5. Just go to hell you piece of @!#?@.
Oh, yeah, and Blazing Lazers too. Go burn with R-Type.
Oh, and hi peeps, I'm new here. The Turbo is rad and Lords of Thunder has an absolutely perfect difficulty curve if played clockwise.
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F u RType level 5. Just go to hell you piece of @!#?@.
Oh, yeah, and Blazing Lazers too. Go burn with R-Type.
Oh, and hi peeps, I'm new here. The Turbo is rad and Lords of Thunder has an absolutely perfect difficulty curve if played clockwise.
If you give Blazing Lazers more time, you'll see that it is actually easy.
Sadly, R-Type still makes me choke and I frequently f-up in that damn game. I have a compulsion to kill every single enemy and I reckon I'm supposed to let some enemies drift by unscathed. BUT I DON'T WANT TO!
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I think the difficulty of Blazing Lazers in its later levels is tuned to be challenging, but not overly frustrating. I'm not that good at shooters, but this game gives me the feeling that I should be able to beat it someday.
R-Type however is just sadistic. It lures you with it's quite manageable first half and then it throws you on the ground, breaks your limbs, cuts off your dick and shits in your face while laughing.
The same happens in R-Type II and III, but this time even sooner in the 2nd level.
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^Your imagery was frightening, but apt.
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Yeah level 4 and on in R-Type is quite frustrating at times, but Blazing Lazers/ Gunhed is really easy to me. Always has been. It is still one of my favorite shooters ever on the system though.
@Ivan: Yeah it was in the Egyptian temple. I bought the game at toys r us. Thought it was super easy. Then I got there and it was just total frustration. I eventually did beat it, but I could tell WD did some tweaks with him. It has been a long time since I've played the pc-e version. I do remember it being way more balanced and easy.
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If you give Blazing Lazers more time, you'll see that it is actually easy.
My problem with BL is that once the game decides to wake me up from my 6/7 level slumber, I've lost interest to take on the challenge and plod along. I beat the game once, many, many moons ago, sold the chip, and now have no desire to even select it from the Everdrive menu. :oops:
Having said that, I still enjoyed the game, but I've always found it to be overrated. It was the reason I eventually got into the Turbo (was a Sega kid), so I'll always give it that.
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If you give Blazing Lazers more time, you'll see that it is actually easy.
My problem with BL is that once the game decides to wake me up from my 6/7 level slumber, I've lost interest to take on the challenge and plod along. I beat the game once, many, many moons ago, sold the chip, and now have no desire to even select it from the Everdrive menu. :oops:
Having said that, I still enjoyed the game, but I've always found it to be overrated. It was the reason I eventually got into the Turbo (was a Sega kid), so I'll always give it that.
Dude! Don't play it on default (easy mode). Play it on the God of Game mode (it will kick your little arse to Paris, Texas, and back).
Alternatively, if you play it at default difficulty, purposefully play with the weapon system to make it challenging (never get missiles/shields, ring blaster, F, etc. Use the least effective weapon for various sections, etc.
The variety of weapons options/combinations allow for lots of creativity!
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In the past when I've talked about playing games in challenging way, after people complained that they were too easy, I got some negative responses like 'that proves how broken the game is'. I think that it was also argued that spammining bombs with unlimited continues is the game's fault and not the player, since it was made to let you do it.
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In the past when I've talked about playing games in challenging way, after people complained that they were too easy, I got some negative responses like 'that proves how broken the game is'. I think that it was also argued that spammining bombs with unlimited continues is the game's fault and not the player, since it was made to let you do it.
That's just stupid. A game should be applauded for allowing different modes of play, not derided.
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That's just stupid. A game should be applauded for allowing different modes of play, not derided.
Word.
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In the past when I've talked about playing games in challenging way, after people complained that they were too easy, I got some negative responses like 'that proves how broken the game is'. I think that it was also argued that spammining bombs with unlimited continues is the game's fault and not the player, since it was made to let you do it.
Yeah, spamming bombs and using continues :)
Hahajjaaj.
I haven't played Aeroblasters recently...now that becomes quite challenging to beat on one credit.
I know a lot of folks who can't handle the second "corridor maze" segment unless they have those skids!
I can dodge pretty well, but even I make mistakes....the skids are a nice security blanket. :)
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In the past when I've talked about playing games in challenging way, after people complained that they were too easy, I got some negative responses like 'that proves how broken the game is'. I think that it was also argued that spammining bombs with unlimited continues is the game's fault and not the player, since it was made to let you do it.
Yeah, spamming bombs and using continues :)
Hahajjaaj.
I haven't played Aeroblasters recently...now that becomes quite challenging to beat on one credit.
I know a lot of folks who can't handle the second "corridor maze" segment unless they have those skids!
I can dodge pretty well, but even I make mistakes....the skids are a nice security blanket. :)
The most common PCE game that gets criticized for being too easy is Sapphire. It's always bomb/continue spammers who likely can't actually finish the game without bombs, let alone 1cc.
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In the past when I've talked about playing games in challenging way, after people complained that they were too easy, I got some negative responses like 'that proves how broken the game is'. I think that it was also argued that spammining bombs with unlimited continues is the game's fault and not the player, since it was made to let you do it.
Yeah, spamming bombs and using continues :)
Hahajjaaj.
I haven't played Aeroblasters recently...now that becomes quite challenging to beat on one credit.
I know a lot of folks who can't handle the second "corridor maze" segment unless they have those skids!
I can dodge pretty well, but even I make mistakes....the skids are a nice security blanket. :)
The most common PCE game that gets criticized for being too easy is Sapphire. It's always bomb/continue spammers who likely can't actually finish the game without bombs, let alone 1cc.
1cc'ing Sapphire is no easy feat. IMO, no shooter is "beat" until you do it on one credit.
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No mention of Image Fight and the dreaded Penalty stage?
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Dude! Don't play it on default (easy mode). Play it on the God of Game mode (it will kick your little arse to Paris, Texas, and back).
Alternatively, if you play it at default difficulty, purposefully play with the weapon system to make it challenging (never get missiles/shields, ring blaster, F, etc. Use the least effective weapon for various sections, etc.
The variety of weapons options/combinations allow for lots of creativity!
Hm, how are the later levels if you increase the difficulty? Does it have the same difficulty spike, thus making it impossible, or does that just make the earlier levels harder and therefore, the game more balanced?
Thanks for the tip!
(For f*ck sakes, the captcha in this forum is ridiculous...)
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What captcha are you speaking of?
Sent from my motherf*cking Lumia 620 using fap-a-talk.
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What captcha are you speaking of?
Sent from my motherf*cking Lumia 620 using fap-a-talk.
I think new members are tortured with a captcha for first few posts...
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Dude! Don't play it on default (easy mode). Play it on the God of Game mode (it will kick your little arse to Paris, Texas, and back).
Alternatively, if you play it at default difficulty, purposefully play with the weapon system to make it challenging (never get missiles/shields, ring blaster, F, etc. Use the least effective weapon for various sections, etc.
The variety of weapons options/combinations allow for lots of creativity!
Hm, how are the later levels if you increase the difficulty? Does it have the same difficulty spike, thus making it impossible, or does that just make the earlier levels harder and therefore, the game more balanced?
Thanks for the tip!
(For f*ck sakes, the captcha in this forum is ridiculous...)
You will be lucky to see 6th stage in God of Game unless you have skills. It's pretty hectic. I try to zip around, alternating speed, but I often make a stupid mistake and crash into something because the screen is so chaotic.
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You will be lucky to see 6th stage in God of Game unless you have skills. It's pretty hectic. I try to zip around, alternating speed, but I often make a stupid mistake and crash into something because the screen is so chaotic.
I took your advice and set it to Hard Human (but couldn't for the life of me get the harder difficulty code to work), and made it to level 5, lost a life and ran into the checkpoint underpowered wall. Now, I did make it through to the bubble stage, but I kept asking myself "am I having fun?", and the answer was no, no way. At that point it started to feel like a chore. The pacing in BL is just horrible, and the sights and sounds are not enough to keep me going to the point of mastering the game (but I did want to see those pretty bubbles!).
I can understand why others enjoy it more than I do, as I do find the weapon system interesting and which gives the game a sense of freedom, but the games pacing is just off for me and it generally feels dull. I mentioned Lords of Thunder before, and that is a game with perfect pacing and balance. For other examples, outside the Turbo world, I think games like Thunder Force III, DoDonPachi and Ketsui get the balance between length, difficulty and interesting level design just right (and something like Mega Man 2, outside the shooter realm).
In any case, thanks for the suggestion; it was fun playing that game again after all these years!
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The Makaimura series. I haven't played the supergrafx version, but typically pushing start and watching the intro is easy and the difficulty jumps exponentially after that.
Edit:
Not including the Demon's Crest offshoots.
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No mention of Image Fight and the dreaded Penalty stage?
I think the challenge of the Penalty stage stems from losing your powerups from the previous level and the lack of finding any in the stage. Hate those ships that slow you down with their shot. its deadly.
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The Makaimura series. I haven't played the supergrafx version, but typically pushing start and watching the intro is easy and the difficulty jumps exponentially after that.
Edit:
Not including the Demon's Crest offshoots.
Haha, I have not played Ghouls and Ghosts on the SGX, but I've played the Genesis version so many times, I can easily make it to the last level (in HArd mode) without dying, as long as I don't have to commit suicide to avoid crappy weapons. If the SGX version is similar to Genesis/Arcade, then it absolutely belongs in this list, as the last level does ramp up the difficulty exponentially and it seems like 90% of the baddies there have random patterns.
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The Makaimura series. I haven't played the supergrafx version, but typically pushing start and watching the intro is easy and the difficulty jumps exponentially after that.
Edit:
Not including the Demon's Crest offshoots.
Haha, I have not played Ghouls and Ghosts on the SGX, but I've played the Genesis version so many times, I can easily make it to the last level (in HArd mode) without dying, as long as I don't have to commit suicide to avoid crappy weapons. If the SGX version is similar to Genesis/Arcade, then it absolutely belongs in this list, as the last level does ramp up the difficulty exponentially and it seems like 90% of the baddies there have random patterns.
Most of my experience is with the Famicom title. It's good if you are a masochist.