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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: MNKyDeth on October 20, 2015, 04:58:52 AM
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Does having either of these cards help games that normally don't use them in any way?
Also... Is the Stryder game worth the investment?
Out of all the games that can utilize the Arcade cards what ones do you feel are must plays?
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Sapphire for sure.
I have yet to play Strider. From what I hear it has a Turbo exclusive stage. If your into Strider I would say yes it's worth it. Remember you can burn these discs and play from a CDr to try before you buy. Sapphire is a $500 game so CDr is more feasible for most.
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Many CD games are bi-compatible. Some CD2 games are thought to run "better" (fewer loadings) when played with a System 3+ card and the same for many SCD games played with an Arcade Card. Some SCD games like 3x3 Eyes may have improved content when played in ACD mode.
Strider is a big partially completed mess.
The best ACD games which justify the Arcade Card:
Kabuki Itouryoden
Art of Fighting
Fatal Fury Special
World Heroes 2
Sapphire
Another great game which doesn't seem to make much use from the extra space of the Arcade Card is Madou Monogatari.
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I bought the Arcade Duo card for my Duo-R earlier this summer. I have Fatal Fury Special and Art of Fighting. I'm thinking World Heroes next but now I want to look up all that are mentioned here.
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There are some games that say 16meg compatible (Wizardry 3&4) that help reduce loading times. Kind of weird that they aren't officially listed, but there you go..
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A console game from this era consumes the exact same amount of RAM in exactly the same way every time they load. Unless a game is specifically written to use the extra RAM of the Arcade/Super cards then they never will. The card itself is such a minor upgrade to your PCE that you can't even tell its there unless you have compatible software. It changes the BIOS screen not one bit, still says 3.0. Even verifying the card is seated correctly can be tricky on a Duo since you get the same boot screen every time regardless. You can only tell it's not working right if, when you go to run an Arcade Card game, it gives you an error screen.
Arcade Card CDROM2 games (as defined by the logo on the spine) require the card and won't run without it.
Super CDROM2 games require the Super System Card to run but in some cases they will have slight improvements if you run with the AC. Examples of these games: 3x3 Eyes, Flash Hiders, Guliver Boy, Linda3. For the most part the AC enhancements with these games are mild, sometimes almost impossible to detect. Sometimes the difference is extremely obvious (the intro to 3x3 eyes). These game will all say Super on the spine but might have Arcade Card logos on the case or in the manual.
The Arcade Card is an AMAZING thing, but sadly it was very under utilized. Most of what it did at the time was make for extremely impressive Neo Geo ports compared to the other systems of the time. Compared to the SFC/MD/MCD versions of Fatal Fury Special the PCE one absolutely rules, no question. However, one can get an actual Fatal Fury Special MVS cart for $5 nowadays (at one point, $700) so the AC advantage has sorta expired in the SNK world. Also, they really only did this with the first Neo fighter boom. You can't get Viewpoint or Pulstar or Windjammers, just some old fighters that aren't even in the top ten best Neo Fighters list anymore...ok, maybe FFS is still top ten. World Heroes 2 certainly isn't though.
So the best AC software now would be the exclusives and that list is really short, with Sapphire at the top. That leaves us with six other games...Kabuki is decent, one of the better PCE fighters for sure, but not totally amazing. The rest are either mediocre wrestling, heavy in Japanese, or an uneven port of Strider.
The most technically impressive game on the system is Sapphire, and any PCE fan would want to see that. Sapphire however, while amazing, isn't very inspired and IMO isn't as good as several other PCE shooters like Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, and the Solider games. If Sapphire were a 3DO game it would be totally worth getting, but the PCE is already overrun with amazing shooters.
So basically buy it to play Sapphire and compare how the intro of 3x3 Eyes runs with or without it. That's what most of us have done with our Arcade Cards.
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Mad Stalker, Kabuki Itouryoden, Sapphire, and Strider are all worth a look, as are 3x3 Eyes and Gulliver Boy (bi-compatible games). Most of the bi-compatible games just use the extra ram as a cache so it doesn't have to reload different areas as often, so don't expect much by way of graphical improvements
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Well, I just grabbed an Arcade Card Duo on the gasp.... ebay. Was the cost of a game brand new $55 so I won't have any remorse.
I skipped the Card + Strider for $130 as I can always get Strider later on if I like it. I'm not really a collector but I need the card to at least experience some of these titles. Now... to order my region mod ... :)
BTW, thanks for all the game names. I will be checking them out asap when I get the card.
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Mad Stalker, Kabuki Itouryoden, Sapphire, and Strider are all worth a look, as are 3x3 Eyes and Gulliver Boy (bi-compatible games). Most of the bi-compatible games just use the extra ram as a cache so it doesn't have to reload different areas as often, so don't expect much by way of graphical improvements
I gotta try that game Mad Stalker. Looks really cool. Is that Konami?
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I wish.
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My favorites are Kabuki Ittouryoudan and Mad Stalker. Kabuki mainly because I am a big fan of the Tengai Makyou Far East of Eden series (this game takes its roster primarily from Kabuki Den) and is a fairly solid fighter. Sapphire is good, yes but it's not the best PCE shooter imo. Not to mention you'll be hard pressed to find a copy of it unless you're burning it. The Neo Geo ports are also very good and the best ports of those games for their time.
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Isn't there some Japanese all female wrestling game that use the Arcade Card?
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For reference I figure I'll post this mess here. I compiled a list of Arcade CDs a while ago, these were pretty easy to find so I'm pretty sure it's right:
Art of Fighting
Battlefield '94
Fire Pro Female Wrestling
Fatal Fury 2
Fatal Fury Special
Sapphire
Jong Shin Densetsu
Kabuki Itouryodan
Mad Stalker Full Metal Force
Madou Monogatari
Strider
World Heroes 2
The list of Super CD games that take advantage of Arcade Card if it's present I'm less confident in. Flash Hiders states in the manual that it takes advantage of the ACD even though there's no ACD logo on the front of the manual. What that tells me is that even though I have the complete list of SCD+ACD via logo on the manual, I may still not know exactly which ones take advantage of the additional space if found. That being said, if anyone knows of any others feel free to tell me how I'm wrong and dumb!
3 x 3 Eyes Sanjiyan Hensei
Atlas Renaissance Voyager
Brandish
Eikan Wa Kimini
Flash Hiders
Formation Soccer '95
Gulliver Boy
J. League Tremendous Soccer '94
Linda Cube
Mahjong Sword Princess Quest
Popful Mail
Princess Maker 2
Private Eye Doll
Sexy Idol Mahjong Fashion
Sotsugyou II Neo Generation
Super Real Mahjong P II & III
Super Real Mahjong P V Custom
Tanjou Debut
Vasteel 2
Wrestling Angels Double Impact
As for a recommendation? Honestly, so many of these games can be had for pretty cheap. If you can get any for around $10 or less I figure you'll at least get that much enjoyment out of every game on the list. That being said, last weekend I ran through Popful Mail again after reading thread about it and had as much fun this time as I did the first time I played it. Check the game out; it is Loads of fun.
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Since you are all talking about the Arcade Card, I was curious about something and hope someone can clarify or give advice.
The Arcade card (Duo or Pro) is meant to give extra RAM to a PCE CDRom unit or PCE Duo unit. With the PCE Duo already having Super System CD card RAM built into the console, could you mod a PCE Duo to include the added RAM needed to operate Arcade Card games?
Note: I have no idea how this would work, or if someone else has already tried it. It's just a random thought concerning the Arcade Card I wanted to throw out.
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Since you are all talking about the Arcade Card, I was curious about something and hope someone can clarify or give advice.
The Arcade card (Duo or Pro) is meant to give extra RAM to a PCE CDRom unit or PCE Duo unit. With the PCE Duo already having Super System CD card RAM built into the console, could you mod a PCE Duo to include the added RAM needed to operate Arcade Card games?
Note: I have no idea how this would work, or if someone else has already tried it. It's just a random thought concerning the Arcade Card I wanted to throw out.
Like many mods it is possible, but not worth the effort.
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Yeah, I always wanted to do this with a Saturn since it has the worst cart slot in history. It's a f*ckload of little wires though just to play a half dozen games...even fewer in the case of the PCE.
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Yeah, I always wanted to do this with a Saturn since it has the worst cart slot in history. It's a f*ckload of little wires though just to play a half dozen games...even fewer in the case of the PCE.
How does the Saturn have the worst cart slot in history? I like it.
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Isn't there some Japanese all female wrestling game that use the Arcade Card?
Yeah, AJW vs JWP Wrestling. Not bad if you're into Fire Pro Wrestling games.
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Yeah, I always wanted to do this with a Saturn since it has the worst cart slot in history. It's a f*ckload of little wires though just to play a half dozen games...even fewer in the case of the PCE.
How does the Saturn have the worst cart slot in history? I like it.
You can like it all you want, but it will stop working if you use it - even sparingly. I usually keep my 4MB cart in mine because it can take several tries to get it seated properly.
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Yeah, I always wanted to do this with a Saturn since it has the worst cart slot in history. It's a f*ckload of little wires though just to play a half dozen games...even fewer in the case of the PCE.
How does the Saturn have the worst cart slot in history? I like it.
I still have my original model 2 Saturn. However, I've already had to replace the cart slot once and just recently the controller ports. I no longer take that 4meg cart out! I do the same with my briefcase setup and the ac pro, its very old so I try not to play Hu-Cards in that one. #Oldconsoleproblems
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Could it be that 3rd party carts for the Saturn had thicker PCBs than the original ones, thus widening the slots over time?
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I always assumed when connection areas went bad that it was mostly oxidation issues preventing proper contact. Getting carbon buildup when sliding carts in and out will wear the connectors down but I would assume not much.
Using an eraser to clean the carbon off and using a little screwdriver to push on the back side of the contact toward the cart area will tighten up the connection again. But... That's if you can even do that as I know you might not be able to get into some of those little areas.
That's how I usually cleaned my NES cart slot and carts. Even my Duo carts get the eraser on the contacts when I see buildup forming.
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Could it be that 3rd party carts for the Saturn had thicker PCBs than the original ones, thus widening the slots over time?
My model 2 has never had any but the official cart. It is a cheaped out part due to the fact that it wasn't the principle connector.
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Yeah, I always wanted to do this with a Saturn since it has the worst cart slot in history. It's a f*ckload of little wires though just to play a half dozen games...even fewer in the case of the PCE.
How does the Saturn have the worst cart slot in history? I like it.
You can like it all you want, but it will stop working if you use it - even sparingly. I usually keep my 4MB cart in mine because it can take several tries to get it seated properly.
I have spent a ton of time playing the Capcom fighters that require the ram cart (Xmen Vs. SF and Alpha 3) on the Saturn and I have never had an issue with the ram cart. I have had my Saturn for about 10yrs. Maybe I am just lucky. IDK.
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It'd have to be luck. It's common knowledge that Saturn cart slots are unreliable, so I don't know why you'd try to argue otherwise.
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It'd have to be luck. It's common knowledge that Saturn cart slots are unreliable, so I don't know why you'd try to argue otherwise.
I am not an expert on the tech side of video games so I will defer to your point. I believe you that they aren't the most reliable carts and/or cart slots. I din't mean to start an argument. I consider myself lucky with me Saturn. Great system by the way. I do however like my DUO better. :P
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Since you are all talking about the Arcade Card, I was curious about something and hope someone can clarify or give advice.
The Arcade card (Duo or Pro) is meant to give extra RAM to a PCE CDRom unit or PCE Duo unit. With the PCE Duo already having Super System CD card RAM built into the console, could you mod a PCE Duo to include the added RAM needed to operate Arcade Card games?
Note: I have no idea how this would work, or if someone else has already tried it. It's just a random thought concerning the Arcade Card I wanted to throw out.
Now that you mention it, back in the day that's what I thought the Duo-RX were. Really would have been cool if that was the case....
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Could it be that 3rd party carts for the Saturn had thicker PCBs than the original ones, thus widening the slots over time?
People suggest this all the time. I don't know where this idea came from, but it's not the problem. My white Saturn has never had a 3rd party cart in it and the slot is just as dodgy and f*cked up as the black one I have which had a PAR in it for the first two years of its life. It's a completely POS cart slot.
I've never heard of anyone having to replace controller ports though. That's completely new to me, and I have a full 10 player Bomberman SS setup that my old fan club used to take to conventions all around the country for tournaments so you'd think I'd have seen this problem at least one time if it was a regular issue. I absolutely love the Saturn and its overall probably the most reliable CD system I've ever owned, but that cart slot just sucks.
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Could it be that 3rd party carts for the Saturn had thicker PCBs than the original ones, thus widening the slots over time?
People suggest this all the time. I don't know where this idea came from, but it's not the problem. My white Saturn has never had a 3rd party cart in it and the slot is just as dodgy and f*cked up as the black one I have which had a PAR in it for the first two years of its life. It's a completely POS cart slot.
I've never heard of anyone having to replace controller ports though. That's completely new to me, and I have a full 10 player Bomberman SS setup that my old fan club used to take to conventions all around the country for tournaments so you'd think I'd have seen this problem at least one time if it was a regular issue. I absolutely love the Saturn and its overall probably the most reliable CD system I've ever owned, but that cart slot just sucks.
The idea came from people like myself and others I've known outside the internet, who only experienced problems bitd with 3rd party carts which obviously did not fit correctly. The cart slot still wasn't made as sturdy as it should've been, but many unofficial carts were a separate problem which only accelerated the overall cart slot issues.
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From my own experience, totally non-scientific, "acceleration" is minor if it even exists at all. They crap out extremely quickly regardless.
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BITD I had a third party memory card, and I later got a 4 in 1, and my cart slot is touchey bit still works. Been using it since near release, and no complete failure yet knock on wood - just takes a perfect seating for it to be recognized if for some reason I remove it. Once it's in it seems to work fine until removed, that's what she said at least ;)
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Literally every single time Saturn cart slots get mentioned the same things get said and there is always a guy who says that he has no problem with it, and that guy is using a 4-in-1 and never removes it.
Therefore, problem causers or not, the shitty carts are the most trouble free. :) Just don't try to play Tomagachi Park, KOF 95, Ultraman, Warcraft II, or any other game that pretty much requires legit stuff. The Netlink being useless nowadays removes a lot of the frustration. Back in like...I don't know, 1997, 1998, I was swapping carts like a crazy person. It make me the crazy person I am today.
FWIW, I've never had a total failure of the SS cart slot either, but this is relative. If the cart slot on my PCE was even half as f*cked up as the ones on both my Saturns wouldn't tollerate it for very long. I let it slide with the SS because I don't change carts as often.
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Could it be cold soldering joints then?
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Popped in the 4 in 1 and never took it out since day one. Still works like a charm. It's prob the multiple removal and inserting of various carts that wears it down.
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My slots don't always wear out, but when they do I stick a piece of cardboard in there behind the cart. Makes for better contact.
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I have a Saturn that had the Cart slot burnt out from the aftermarket Memory Card.
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Huh, I had know idea about the Saturn cart slot. I've only used mine very rarely with the 4m+1 to play Symphony of the Night, but very little.
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Since you are all talking about the Arcade Card, I was curious about something and hope someone can clarify or give advice.
The Arcade card (Duo or Pro) is meant to give extra RAM to a PCE CDRom unit or PCE Duo unit. With the PCE Duo already having Super System CD card RAM built into the console, could you mod a PCE Duo to include the added RAM needed to operate Arcade Card games?
Note: I have no idea how this would work, or if someone else has already tried it. It's just a random thought concerning the Arcade Card I wanted to throw out.
It's doable, but it's more than just ram. You'll need chip to emulate the ram interface which had functionality like four 24bit address vectors, 16bit auto incrementing/decrementing, word/byte mode, four banks of I/O ports mirrored sequentially - each correlating to the four I/O vectors, and the 32bit barrel shifter and rotator. So a PCB with a chip to emulate this and some SD ram.