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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: 780racer on November 04, 2015, 08:37:36 AM
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ok guys and gals,
I want to hear everyone's opinion here, because there seems to be a misunderstanding in general as to the actual differences between a Duo R and a duo besides the color.
I hope to hear people weigh in as on one of the FB groups I heard 1 thing. but was told a few other things, and read some other stuff as well.
What really is the difference? I know the RX supposedly has a clutch built in to prevent the laser getting stuck at full tilt, but was under the assumption the internals to a Duo and a Duo R are the exact same (More of less).
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I'm interested in this info as well.
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What I know: same, except Duo-R has better build quality including non-leaky caps, and the power and av properly go out the back instead of the side.
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I thought I read somewhere that the layout of the board was different on Duo-Rs so the capacitors aren't subject to overheating like they are on Duos.
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How about playing CD-r back ups? Are they both the same when it comes to playing them? My DUO plays them better than my TurboGrafx 16 CD attachment and my SCD-2 attachment on the PC Engine.
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I think this topic needs to be covered fairly in depth.
but from what TheSteve told me was that the laser is the same in the Duo Vs R. The RX just has the clutch. So paying more for the R is more for aesthetics, than actually "Better" hardware it seems. But I want to lay this to rest, just so its clear for everyone.
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Duo has headphone jack and volume unlike the Duo R/RX.
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If we can get all of the differences, I would love to help make a list/diagram as a sticky just for it to be availible to everyone. Make it easier and put some of the hearsay to rest.
Additionally, i would love if some people who have all 3 Duos could crack them open and take some details pics of the everything..... For SCIENCE!
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Besides being the svelte looker of the bunch (among other aesthetic differences), the Duo has a headphone jack, a stronger pcb, but more leak prone caps. The R and RX lack the jack, have shittier pcbs, yet pack more reliable caps; and the RX has the aforementioned clutch and was originally packed with a 6-button controller in place of the usual 2-buttoner.
As far as CDR compatability, methinks the R/RX tend to be more compatible due to them being slightly newer tech. There's no guarantee of any version working reliably, and the repair guys can get almost any of 'em reading CDRs (new caps, new blazing lazer, pot tuning, etc.), so it's shouldn't be a deciding factor in which version to buy.
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For sake of completeness. The Duo's are region locked out of the box for HuCards.
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For sake of completeness. The Duo's are region locked out of the box for HuCards.
So the R and RX are region free?
Oh wait you mean all DUOs including the R & RX. Got it.
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Of course not. ALL systems have region locked huey slots.
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The Duo shell is flimsy and easy to break. I once pushed through it with a q-tip while cleaning.
Duo R/RX shells are sturdy.
Duos have the inconvenient side AV jack.
Duo R/RX have the jack in the back so it fits better and easier to access in typical stereo racks.
The Duo has a CD door lock.
The Duo HuCard door is flimsy and the folding hinge makes them pop off and get lost. 3D printed repros are available because of this.
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I know that one of the differences is the cost.
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I know that one of the differences is the cost.
I don't know if the cost difference is significant when its console only. I haven't been actively tracking the prices but I thought the controller and box were the main contributors to price increase on the system.
Duo And R about the same
Buying a Duo R and then a 6 button controller
Buying a Duo RX and then a 2 button controller about the same?
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Love my RX! The extra cost is easily mitigated by the cost of a loose 6 button pad. I lurked around ebay for a few months until someone posted one on buy it now for pretty cheap.
Popping the plastic off, the R and RX have a little bit harder install of region mods because there is a heat- shield(esque) chunk of metal around the HuCard slot.
GameTechUS, if you are around, you talk about it in this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk4P3X0pCfo
Anyone else run into this?
I posted the link because the 900x900 image seems a little large in the preview, and the bbcode isn't allowing me to resize. Anyone know the resize code the site uses?
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/zdQds0Uu3JU/U3vUnbtY3II/AAAAAAAAEBU/qcvU7r51nMQ/s912/photo%25202.JPG
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Looking on console5 caps list, R and RX has fewer caps total.
The board shape differs too, R is rectangle and black Duo is like a fat "L"
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After doing a lot of Duo repairs lately. My own personal experience and preferences are....
Duo:
Pro's
Headphone jack
SMT caps <- I prefer this style - replace with ceramics is a breeze, but costs more
cd-rom pin holders seem more sturdy (less prone to breakage)
power input jack
Con's
Leaky caps - If fixed in time no further worries
Side output A/V
Difficult to fit larger supercap for battery backup
7805's are right next to audio caps <- possible heat issue
6260 <- On bottom of board, running wires for RGB is a bit more difficult.
Duo-R
Pro's
Better caps <- They still get old and worn out, 25-30yrs prolly should replace them anyways just like regular Duo.
Only a couple caps by 7805 <- Less of a heat issue
Easy RGB modding 6260 is on top of board
Tons of room to add a larger supercap like a 1.5F
Cons
All thru-hole radial caps and micro caps. <- If you don't have a desolder gun this board can be very tedious to work on.
A/V port <- Prone to solder cracking
Game pad port <- Prone to solder cracking
power input port <- Prone to solder cracking
The above 3 I have read and noticed on the two Duo-R's I have sitting here. By wiggling the A/V cable and having the video and sound flicker was the diagnosis of bad or cracked solder joints.
Both
Pro's
They both use the same laser's HOP-M3
They both have the exact some pots for adjustment
They both can be region modded at about the same speed. <- Special note for the US-Tech video. He has his own special region mods that he makes. He made one that goes right on the pins. The metal shields in the Duo-r's pose some rethinking like how he showed in the vid on how to do it. Using the Obey region mod the protective metal shield is a non-issue as you are connecting wires to the cut pins instead.
Cons
On both you need to solder wires directly to the 6260 for RGB. This can be difficult to people that are not used to soldering such small wires to such small pins that are extremely close to each other. You can mess stuff up here if you don't know what you are doing.
Region mods require you to permanently alter the internals of the HuCard slot and outer casing for a switch.
These systems are old. <- If you use them, pamper them. Get the caps replaced, if they have not been already. I would think doing it in the Duo-R's is a smart idea as well. Think of it as preventative maintenance. It'll last another 25yrs as long as the laser holds out. :)
Lasers, replace when needed, they seem to be readily available, just depends on the price.
Both version's of the Duo use the Arcade Duo Card instead of the Arcade card pro.
So for me, it all comes down to color. Do I want Black and grey or Black and purple or white and purple.
I have a few of each in front of me right now that I am getting ready to sell, or try and sell. The Duo-R is region and RGB modded. Just waiting on my cables and ends so I can put a scart with it along with the regular A/V cable.
The Pc Engine Duo is recapped and fully working, just waiting on my cables for the scart ends.
And, the one US Duo I have that I repaired someone was using as a parts machine. It's in bad shape but with a fresh recap and some minor fixes it works. Just the shell has been abused, although it is a US shell. I have not region or RGB this one yet.
So I have some experience working on these now and imo they look really good. Ceramic caps for SMT/SMD locations and all Nichicon for thru-hole. Except for one Duo-R where I used a cap kit from console5.
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The Duo has rechargeable battery pack and tv screen accessories.
TurboDuo has the 3.1 bios.
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After doing a lot of Duo repairs lately. My own personal experience and preferences are....
Duo:
Pro's
Headphone jack
SMT caps <- I prefer this style - replace with ceramics is a breeze, but costs more
cd-rom pin holders seem more sturdy (less prone to breakage)
power input jack
Con's
Difficult to fit larger supercap for battery backup
I had no idea you could do this? It actually increases the save slots of the system? I might have to put a bigger cap in my duo.
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It does not increase the save space. If you unplug the system and let it sit the supercap will keep the backup ram supplied with power. Keeping the saved data intact.
The larger the supercap is, the longer the system can go unplugged while retaining the data in it's memory.
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Thanks for the reply and that does make sense.
For a second there my mind was blown thinking it would increase the save slots.
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On another forum unrelated to this one, someone said that the RX has a different power socket than the R. That didn't make a lot (any) of sense to me but I don't have an RX so I can't check.
Also, is there a difference between the power socket on the Turbo Duo and the PCE Duo?
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The power socket on the Duo-R is soldered directly to the board. The one in the Duo is not. This allows the one in the Duo if bumped or dropped or someone presses the power jack in hard more resilient to damage.
The size of the jacks are different as well.
Edit:
I should also not that I am not all knowing on these systems. I am still learning. But I read as much as possible of what thesteve, BlueBWM, Turbokon and other members that do repairs do for the fixes.
I feel I have a good grasp of things and when I run into a new problem I hit these forums for advice or read more threads that have similar issues until the issue is resolved. So... Most of everything I stated was stated in one of the aforementioned peoples posts or it is of my own opinion from first hand experience. Just so we get that out of the way. :) I have all the Duo's right here open in front of me except a RX version so I cannot give exacts about that system. US Duo, PC Engine Duo and a Duo-R.
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I entirely am enjoying myself too much here talking about these differences. I really want to thank everyone for their input, and want to know if anyone has tried taking the RX clutch and putting it into a DUO and it working...
Kind of want to do that to my US Duo.
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This thread kinda makes me want all 3 versions.
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Back in the 90's I accidentally stepped on the ac adaptor plug while it was inside my TurboDuo. The jack and mini pcb lifted up and were floating until I cracked the area of the shell open and glued it back in place. The Duo R/RX power supply plug is thin and needle like. I imagine it would have just snapped off.
One pro about the Duo R/RX power supply is that you can use a PSOne power supply as a substitute.
This thread kinda makes me want all 3 versions.
There are four.
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This thread kinda makes me want all 3 versions.
I would like a RX that has a broken shell, that I could just get the laser assembly from and ruin my US duo.... To make it a SUPER US DUO RX- MEGA EDITION.
Back in the 90's I accidentally stepped on the ac adaptor plug while it was inside my TurboDuo. The jack and mini pcb lifted up and were floating until I cracked the area of the shell open and glued it back in place. The Duo R/RX power supply plug is thin and needle like. I imagine it would have just snapped off.
One pro about the Duo R/RX power supply is that you can use a PSOne power supply as a substitute.
This thread kinda makes me want all 3 versions.
There are four.
I think you can use a Genni/SNES/NES power supply for the normal DUO though I believe as well.
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Back in the 90's I accidentally stepped on the ac adaptor plug while it was inside my TurboDuo. The jack and mini pcb lifted up and were floating until I cracked the area of the shell open and glued it back in place. The Duo R/RX power supply plug is thin and needle like. I imagine it would have just snapped off.
One pro about the Duo R/RX power supply is that you can use a PSOne power supply as a substitute.
This thread kinda makes me want all 3 versions.
There are four.
Four... ok Yeah
3 Jap and 1 US. Got it.
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We all know the most superior hardware version is the Laseractive...
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I think you can use a Genni/SNES/NES power supply for the normal DUO though I believe as well.
None of those are the right size, although Console5 sells adapters that will let you use a genny 1 supply. DO NOT use a NES supply with it!
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We all know the most superior hardware version is the Laseractive...
Dang, and there I thought, it was digging all the chips out of the dump and then soldering them to a breadboard and have a working system afterwards....
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NEVER USE NES POWER SUPPLY WITH ANYTHING BUT NES.
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NEVER USE NES POWER SUPPLY WITH ANYTHING BUT NES.
the Nes power supply has helped me get many things cheap. Get offered various broken game system, cd attachment, see Nes power supply being used :dance:
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NEVER USE NES POWER SUPPLY WITH ANYTHING BUT NES.
the Nes power supply has helped me get many things cheap. Get offered various broken game system, cd attachment, see Nes power supply being used :dance:
I blew a fuse in my Sega CD using an NES power brick,
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Welp. Sorry for the wrong info. I thought one of those power supplies worked on a duo system.
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The fuse is super easy to fix in Sega CDs. Just cut it out and solder the wires together. If you want to replace the fuse they are cheap to order. I have bought 3 or 4 model 1 Sega CDs on eBay in "as is" condition "will not power on". Fixed the fuse and bingo, a functioning system.
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The fuse is super easy to fix in Sega CDs. Just cut it out and solder the wires together. If you want to replace the fuse they are cheap to order. I have bought 3 or 4 model 1 Sega CDs on eBay in "as is" condition "will not power on". Fixed the fuse and bingo, a functioning system.
Just go ahead and send me one so I can test....... how well it works....
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Let me clarify my questions:
Are the R and the RX the same PCB? Is the power socket different?
How many different power sockets are there amongst all Duos? I'm not interested in wattage since they are all the same, just the sockets.
Btw, this "clutch" thing is news to me. I have no doubt that the RX CD-ROM assembly would fit a US Duo, but I don't know if that's the answer to your problem where CD-Rs get the laser stuck. The reason I say this is because I actually have a US Duo CD-ROM drive in my Duo R and no CD-R has ever jamed that system. The US Duo the drive came from would jam however, so I think that "issue" (if NEC even knew it existed) was probably solved in the controls somewhere.
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Btw, this "clutch" thing is news to me. I have no doubt that the RX CD-ROM assembly would fit a US Duo, but I don't know if that's the answer to your problem where CD-Rs get the laser stuck. The reason I say this is because I actually have a US Duo CD-ROM drive in my Duo R and no CD-R has ever jamed that system. The US Duo the drive came from would jam however, so I think that "issue" (if NEC even knew it existed) was probably solved in the controls somewhere.
I may be contacting TheSteve soon so he can adjust my pots again, and see if he can sprinkle some magic dust on my Duo as I have had issues with it since purchasing it a while back.
I dont blame anyone, its just a super old CD based game system. Just annoying that like most of the great games dont work on it, because of "Some" reason. Makes troubleshooting hard as well. since some games work.... They just happen to be the ones I am not extremely eager about..
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Let me clarify my questions:
Are the R and the RX the same PCB? Is the power socket different?
How many different power sockets are there amongst all Duos? I'm not interested in wattage since they are all the same, just the sockets.
Btw, this "clutch" thing is news to me. I have no doubt that the RX CD-ROM assembly would fit a US Duo, but I don't know if that's the answer to your problem where CD-Rs get the laser stuck. The reason I say this is because I actually have a US Duo CD-ROM drive in my Duo R and no CD-R has ever jamed that system. The US Duo the drive came from would jam however, so I think that "issue" (if NEC even knew it existed) was probably solved in the controls somewhere.
The Duo R/RX have the same power supply. Off the top of my head, the Duo R/RX, GT and Super CD-ROM have narrow ac adaptor sockets, while all other first party hardware have the same size socket.
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the only reason for the clutch is so the laser doesnt get stuck
the clutch can be transplanted from a RX drive to any duo, just swap the gear
the control system (hardware and software) is identical between systems, even the CDR2 (CDR2 has a slip drive mech, as was common at the time)
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Then we still have no idea why black Duos move their lasers too far? I had it happen only a few times with my US Duo, but I've been playing CD-Rs on that same drive in my Duo R for 5-6 years and it's never gotten stuck once. That is, the October 1992 US Duo's drive now lives in my Duo R and it's apparently in-killable.
Such a mystery...
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OldMan explained the stuck sled as being caused by.....
Poor reflectivity. The laser scans for the TOC at the beginning of the disc. When it can't find it, it has to seek to the end of the disc to reset. From what I've been told, the 'end of the disc ' is recognized by a change in the laser signal in the outer tracks. (The empty ring at the edge of the CD). Old grease and other problems can cause the laser to stick there, since it is not an area normally reached by the laser. It is worse on newer, larger cds, since the edge ring is (slightly) farther out.
So perhaps you've not had problems since transplanting the drive because you're using better discs or due to fresher lube.
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We all know the most superior hardware version is the Laseractive...
No.. we do not.
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Better discs...possible, but unlikely. Lube is a good theory, but in this case I don't think it's the reason since I lubricate all my older CD-ROM stuff on occasion.
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We all know the most superior hardware version is the Laseractive...
F**k Laserdisc
Better discs...possible, but unlikely. Lube is a good theory, but in this case I don't think it's the reason since I lubricate all my older CD-ROM stuff on occasion.
I want to lubricate my NEC CD systems. Any tips on how?
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Something to keep in mind is that every unit of each model is not going to behave or last exactly the same. If you've only ever played the same Duo and the same Duo R/RX, your experience isn't necessarily going to reflect most units.
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Hey my Laseractive plays any CDR of anything I throw at it no matter how crappy the cdr. If your goal is to play cdr then Laseractive is your machine.
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That makes sense, since a LA's laser is meant to read a much larger range of media.
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Plus that Quiz Econosaurus man...
(http://vgcollect.com/images/front-box-art/49125.jpg)
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Hey my Laseractive plays any CDR of anything I throw at it no matter how crappy the cdr. If your goal is to play cdr then Laseractive is your machine.
If they weren't huge ass machines it would be the perfect match for me!
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They double as a laserdisc player so it's win win!
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For an LD player they are actually not that big. :) My LD-W1 completely steamrollers the LA.
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Maybe one day I'll get one. I remember them from school.
Sent from my iPhone using your mama
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They double as a laserdisc player so it's win win!
Yea your right. I'm just bustin your chops.
I'm actually jealous. . I want one.
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Well interesting twist. I will be sending my DUO off the TheSteve. Still having issues with it since July it seems when I purchased it.
Hopefully he can get it back to better than ever, and resolve whatever is going on with mine.
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After doing a lot of Duo repairs lately. My own personal experience and preferences are....
They both can be region modded at about the same speed. <- Special note for the US-Tech video. He has his own special region mods that he makes. He made one that goes right on the pins. The metal shields in the Duo-r's pose some rethinking like how he showed in the vid on how to do it. Using the Obey region mod the protective metal shield is a non-issue as you are connecting wires to the cut pins instead.
Awesome info. I realized he makes his own pcb, but I really never put 2 and 2 together. This thread has been fantastic.
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The metal shield also makes a convenient spot to mount the obey chip as well.
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Plus that Quiz Econosaurus man...
(http://vgcollect.com/images/front-box-art/49125.jpg)
Quiz Econosaurus is awesome. I don't own my laseractive anymore but I remember getting many 4 player games going with that one in the past.
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Plus that Quiz Econosaurus man...
(http://vgcollect.com/images/front-box-art/49125.jpg)
Quiz Econosaurus is awesome. I don't own my laseractive anymore but I remember getting many 4 player games going with that one in the past.
Seriously? Is that game good?
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I'd say with four people and some alcohol it could be quite fun!
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That another Dinosaur Tour type game ? Heh.
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I'm sure it'd be more fun with booze and friends, but it's pretty meh one player. There's not even all that much fmv in it.