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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion => Topic started by: SegaSonic91 on December 12, 2015, 03:33:37 AM
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I bought some RGB amps recently and finally got up the courage to attempt the mod on my "spare" DUO-RX. Problem is, after finishing up, I am getting nothing at all from the system. It makes the usual sound from the speakers when I turn it off, but it does not respond to anything. Pressing run after switching on does not even trigger the CD-ROM, but I cannot be sure if there is any power or not thanks to the stupid lack of a power light.
I am not at home at the moment and forgot to bring one of my RX pads but did get a HORI 6B on Wednesday. When I plug the pad in, I get a hum through the TV speakers but pressing run does nothing, it could be the pad but I doubt it. I was afraid of doing the mod in the first place because of the horribly small pins on the 6260 chip and was afraid of screwing the system. Does it sound like I HAVE screwed the system? The wires to the chip seem ok, but there may be a bridge or two from where the wire did not stick right away. Would that cause the problem? I had some trouble soldering the wires to the R,G and B pins on the DIN8, too. They just did not seem to want to stick. Perhaps I need thinner wires, the wires seemed to want to fray no matter how much I twisted them.
Any held and advice on this matter would be much appreciated! I want to experience the glory of PCE RGB on my latest TV pick up; a Loewe Calida 5684Z. It's a 100Hz model, BUT, it has the chassis/firmware that gives a pure 60Hz picture through RGB! It has a big, gorgeous screen and all my other consoles look amazing on it :D
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Post some high res pictures of your install.
Probably your iron temp isn't set high enough for the pins to heat up enough on the din.
You should also use solid core wire to do this. I use 26awg Kynar wire usually, but 30awg is also fine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Color-Assortment-26AWG-Solid-Kynar-Insulated-Electronic-Hobby-or-Crafts-Wire-/261960321651
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-X-30-ft-Kynar-30-awg-wire-10-Color-4-test-jig-PCB-/260772993098
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I agree with mickcris. The wire selection is important for ease of use.
I also think having the proper tools helps a lot here as well. A variable temp soldering iron can help but dealing directly on the chip legs with these wires I found that having proper tweezers helps a ton.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VETUS-ESD-Safe-Anti-static-Stainless-Steel-Tweezers-Maintenance-Repair-Set-/381294130884?var=&hash=item58c6e6b6c4:m:mFRKHgE2bossdtCbOlauxxw
Take the wire like mentioned above, trim off roughly 2mm of the outer cover with some wire strippers. Twist the wire tight with your fingers. Then use a flux pen and coat the tip of the wire. Then apply the iron and solder to the end of the wire. Just a quick touch is plenty to get a solder coating "tinning" on the wire. I use some locking tweezers to hold the wire while I use both hands for the solder and iron.
Once I have that done I use the above tweezers in the link above to hold the wire and steadily apply heat. Once you see the solder on the wire melt remove the iron, blow gently on the wire to help the solder harden faster. This usually allows for quick and secure connection without excess solder on the pins. If the iron is not hot enough it will not heat the leg you are trying to connect the wire to. This will make a bad connection or no connection at all. So you may have to hold for slightly longer to make sure the leg gets sufficiently hot so the solder flows on to it from the wire.
If you get a mess of solder on the pins use some solder braid to help remove it. But by using only the solder from tinning this should not be a problem.
This is the end result with one of the Duo-R's I have recently RGB modded. I think I trimmed slightly more than 2mm on the wires and I used a dab of flux on the legs of the Hu6260 chip.
(http://s5.postimg.org/5wyjar6zn/DSC00535.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5wyjar6zn/)
I should also mention. I also use a multimeter that has an audio signal for continuity. I can then test each leg to make sure I did not bridge them together. If I hear audio on the neighboring leg of the 6260 then I used to much solder and I need to redo the connection. Do one at a time and be patient. Steady hands help. :)
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I really dont think using stranded wire is a good idea for soldering directly to the chip. if you use solid core wire, no need to twist it.
flux is also a really good idea as mentioned above. get some kester 951.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-951-Soldering-Flux-Pen-Low-Solids-No-Clean-10ml-Xbox-360-and-PS3-Reflows-/191293097438
here what it looks like with kynar on the most recent duo i modded:
http://imgur.com/noGtWzR
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Thanks mickcris, I will have to look into that wire.
I was mostly using this stuff as it seemed to work for me. Although I can see from the pics there is most likely some added difficulty with what I am using.
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Thanks mickcris, I will have to look into that wire.
I was mostly using this stuff as it seemed to work for me. Although I can see from the pics there is most likely some added difficulty with what I am using.
no problem. stranded wire doesn't really like to stay in place which is probably why you are having to hold it with tweezers. I like the kynar too as its already pre tinned (silver coated). Kynar is pretty much the standard modding wire. Its what most people use to install modchips. You defiantly should pick some up.
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Thanks for the replies guys. I will get some solid core wire and do the install again. No wonder it was being such a pain in the butt! Duh. ](*,) I did have the temp on my soldering iron quite high, but it I guess the wire type did not help. My flux pen was strangely absent from my little box of soldering bits and pieces too, which again I am sure did not help. I am feeling a bit of a fool at the moment for doing this without the right pieces! :oops: And here I thought I was being so careful with everything. I did check and double check that the DIN8 was soldered in to place properly.
I only have my crappy iPhone 4 to take pictures with at the moment as my camera is back at home. I might just re-do everything once I get the solid core and a new flux pen tomorrow and post pics if I am still getting nothing. I am worried about the possible bridging on the C6260 and how I will fix it. What would be the best way to in-bridge the pins without damage? Just use a solder sucker? Also, I took sync from pin 55, is there somewhere better to get it from? Thanks to everyone for all the help! I am glad I did not bother trying to do my SuFami Jr last night, now.
Edit: I missed the part about using de-soldering braid on the chip, that's the best way to get rid of the solder that may be bridging it? And damn, that picture of your install is damn clean and pretty mickcris! I did not get a chance to let you know that I received my amps or leave a comment as I stupidly left my laptop at home.
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how are you doing the sync? did you cut the trace to the composite video pin and wire c-sync to it? you should just need to wire the r,g, and b pins to the port as the other 5 signals are already there.
normally if bridge a pin, i just put some flux on it and drag the iron away from the chip.
see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg2hxpy--gg
also make sure you aren't using a huge iron tip to do this install. You dont want the temp really high when soldering on the chip too. I was just talking about the DIN port.
This is the tip i use on my weller iron:
http://www.alliedelec.com/apex-tool-group-mfr-etr/70219898/
its small and works well for me
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I did not cut the trace. So I should use the install method that is shown on Otaku Store? I used pin 55 on the C6260 as shown in doujindance's install video. I wondered if the sync could have been the problem...
I have a 0.5mm tip and a thin chisel tip. I am using the 0.5mm tip at the moment. I had the iron set to around 300-350C. I was going to ask for tips BEFORE doing the install, I wish I had. Subs I would not be feeling like such a stooopid noob right now :oops: I will try this all again and hope it works properly :pray:
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all you need to do is connect RGB to the pins on the din connector to where they are labeled. and the rgb wires and ground and 5v to the rgb amp board. Composite video (used for sync) is on one of the original pins from the DIN5. since you are using this on a TV, you probably want to use composite video anyway.
here are a couple of general guides.
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/core-grafx-rgb-mod/
http://cdn-12.create.net/sitefiles/12/8/9/128972/pcergbmod.pdf
i dont recall duojindance connecting sync somewhere else. i will see if i can find that video. i know otaku store wires there rgb lines on the din different than just about everyone else. but the rest of their guide is probably ok.
here are some pics of a duo-r i did a while ago. ignore the region switch
http://imgur.com/a/tQiml#0
i try to keep my temp around 500 deg f (which would be about 260c) so 300c is good. you may need turn it up a bit more when soldering the wires to the extra legs of the din port.
edit:
i looked and pin 55 is ground. so you grounded your sync signal. most likely why its not working. duojindance grounded his amp/region mod board to there.
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Thanks for the links and photos. And crap, I grounded the sync ](*,) Moron. Well, I will fix THAT and see if it works. If not, I will just do it over when I get the better wire, flux etc tomorrow. Sorry for all the dumb questions and thank you for your help. It is very much apreciated.
Edit: Ugh! I don't know why I kept saying I put "sync on pin 55", it is connected to ground on the amp. I think I was getting confused with seeing one of the pins being used for pure sync. I posted this at 3am and have not had much sleep, this is the result.
So everything seems to be connected, but with a possibly bridged ground on the HuChip. 55+56 look like they could be bridged, can't find my multimetre at the moment to test properly.
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55 and 56 are both ground so that shouldn't be a problem.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=schematics:hu6260_netlist
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Hmmmm, because they are both ground, I thought it might be ok, but was not sure. Maybe I should try one of the other amps when I re-do it tomorrow? I just hope that I did not somehow fry the amp board.
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does composite video still work? do you have the option to try that at the moment. would be good if you could post some up close pics even if they are from your phone. they may be good enough to see if something can be spotted.
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Tried composite last night and there was nothing, not even a flicker of the TV. I will some pics up later today.
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that doesn't sound good. if composite video isn't working, that should have nothing to do with the rgb amp. so if something did get fried, its most likely not the amp board.
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Yup, the fact that composhite did not work freaked me the hell out. There is a "feedback" like whine that goes from high to low when I turn the system on. That makes me think it could be the DIN8? I put some extra solder on to make sure they were all connected. On the two front pins, the solder seems to sink down rather than forming a blob like the other pins. I removed all of the wires from the chip/amp, but there is still nothing. The chip appears to be ok apart from pin 51 which looks like the front of the leg could be missing... I was hoping that the fact I am taking green directly from the rest of the leg means that it will be fine. I took some photos but I am unable to upload directly because I cannot resize them to reduce their size. I will try and remember my account on one of those photo sites and link to them from here.
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I really like http://postimg.org/ for hosting pics.
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I really like https://postimages.org/ for hosting pics.
Me too, I hope it lasts and I didn't make a mistake in switching most of my stuff to it.
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Thanks for the suggestion! I uploaded some photos there but am unable to copy the links to the photos on my crappy mobile. I will do it on my sister's computer tomorrow. I will also get the solid core kynar and flux pen tomorrow. I just I wish I knew what the hell has happened and how to fix it!
EDIT: Some shameful photos...
http://postimg.org/gallery/iqpjzc34/
Just one stupid question, does the SCART cable output composite as well as RGB? I only have the SCART cable to test with as I forgot to grab the DUO-RX a/v cable. As I said, probably a stupid question but I thought I'd ask.
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Well the first pic it looks like pin 50 is pushed over on pin 49.
The pick with the red/gree/blue and black wire you can clearly see the pins are bridged with the wires and some extra solder by the black wire.
If you replace the standard 5pin Din with an 8pin din all you are doing is adding the red green and blue wires to it. You are essentially using composite sync from pin 1 then and this allows you to use an RGB cable or the original cable still.
I usually pull my ground from pin 3 on the A/V connector under the PCB. And the 5v from pin 4 there as well for the amp.
http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/duoav.htm
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Yeah, I was just taking a look at the chip and I noticed that the 50 pin looks like it is crossed over. I am unsure if it is just solder or if it is the pin. *sigh* I really f'ed this up. I am no expert at soldering, I've only been doing it for a short time. But! I have re-capped M-CD1 systems, modded MEGADRIVEs for composite and region free, added region free BIOS chips to MCD1 systems and added a mod chip to two of my Saturns so that I can use copies of my games. Also fixed 5 TWIN FAMICOMs, but that was just the stupid disk drive.
I don't understand how I messed this up so badly, I was being so slow and careful and barely touched the pins with the soldering iron for fear of ruining them. If I fix the bridge, do you think it will work again or have I destroyed it? I am about to go and buy the new wires etc to re-do it all. I know that the DIN8 just adds the RGB pins, I was just unsure if the SCART cable was wired for composhite or not.
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The scart cable is wired to use composite video for sync. So it should work for composite video I think. I'm not really sure how that works on tvs as we don't have scart on them here.
Be careful with that lifted pin (50) that you don't break it off. Not sure if you ripped it off the pad or not. You may need to reconnect it to 5v if it won't stick back to the pad. You're gonna want to check it with a meter.
Hopefully it's not messed up beyond repair. Don't think you'll know till you get it connected good. It might not be working cause of pin 50 not being connected to 5v at the moment.
Edit:
Pin 50 looks ok in the pic with the wires attached but it looks like it was bridged to 49. Probably ripped off when the wire was removed.
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Ugh, I missed getting my new wire and flux pen AGAIN, today. I keep forgetting that I am in Hicksville at the moment. I'm buying it tomorrow without fail. I will just say about pin 50, I am not sure if it is lifted, or not. It looks like it is in the photo I uploaded, but in the other photos I took, it looks normal. It's hard to tell looking at it, too. Guess I'll work it out tomorrow night :/
Edit: Well, I got the new wire and flux pen. It looks like every pad from where I previously soldered, is missing. Not happy. I soldered everything again and I this time I had sound, but no picture. I switched the TV to CVBS and still had sound only. I switched to the non-RGB SCART socket and saw the wonderful sight of the Super CD-ROM2 screen. So composhit is working, but I only get sound and no picture on RGB. I am just relieved that I did not f*ck the system! There was still some pins that looked like they may be bridged, but no matter how many times I tried to drag it off with the help of flux, it just stayed where it was. I am leaving it the hell alone for tonight! I am wondering if it could be the RGB pins or something else? I took the advice and soldered the GND and +5v from the A/V port.
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Glad your system is still working!
I guess its possible that the amp may have been damaged from the previous install. I would wait till you have access to a meter and double check that everything is connected properly and you have no shorts.
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Thanks! I was relieved to say the least. I am going to try a different amp tomorrow and hope for the best. I am worried about it being something to do with the DIN8. The "G" pin is kind loose, but I figured that if it was just the green pin, the other colours would still come through. I will just have to test it with another amp. If I killed the amp, I may need to buy a couple more, if you still have them! =P~
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It would still working and just green would be missing. Probably not the din connector. You should secure that loose connection though.
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One thing I forgot to add to my last post, when I plugged the SCART plug into the non-RGB socket, I changed from CVBS to YC and it worked. Should it give an s-video output? The colour of the picture changed, so it definitely changed from composite to svhs. Haven't had a chance to wire up to a different amp yet, I'm wondering how to get the current one out if it IS dead. That tape is bloody strong! :o
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It should come loose if you dig under it with your fingernail and pull up.
it does not have svideo output. svideo shares some pins with rgb so thats probably why it gave a picture:
http://pinouts.ru/VideoCables/scart_adapter_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml
chroma shares the red pin. did the picture get more red?
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The colour became a bit deeper and not as washed out as composite. Very strange!
I had another go at the mod tonight and now I am almost certain that the DIN8 has something to do with the problems I've had. When plugging the system in tonight, the composite picture was awful and then in RGB mode, I had RED! Nothing but red, but hey, it's better than a black screen. What makes me think that the DIN8 is at fault, is that when the system was on, if I moved the cable at the DIN, the power went off and on again. I reflowed the solder on the DIN and did not touch anything else. When I tried the system again after that, I had nothing, again. No black screen, nothing at all. I desoldered the DIN and tried soldering it in again, but it made no difference. I'm stumped. I can't buy another DIN8 like the one I have now to test it, either. I think I can get one that does not solder in, but I would much rather have a solder in DIN.
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make sure you dont have too much solder on the pins on the bottom of the board so they are shorted to each other. its also possible one of the pads could have become detached from the trace when the old DIN port was removed. You should check for continuity. I dont really see how the DIN jack could become damaged. Most likely if there is an issue, it would be shorted pins or pins barely making a connection.
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I am really ready to just give up on this thing. I am stumped and have no clue what the problem is. If I turn the system on without the SCART cable plugged in, it works fine, but as soon as I plug the cable in, the power cuts. When I put the cable in and the power stayed on, there is still no RGB picture (still a black screen) and now composite is messed up with missing colours and things. The SCD BIOS screen has half the picture missing. That worries me more than anything.
I de-soldered the DIN8 again and installed it with less solder but it made no difference. At the moment, it is de-soldered again and I am thinking of putting the original back in to see what happens.
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have you verified all your solder points are not shorted with a meter? If you haven't, you should stop until you have one. Hopefully no permanent damage has happened.
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Yeah, I did check with my multi-metre and it did not indicate a short. I think the battery is just about dead though, so I am going to get a new battery before I put the DIN8 in again. I really appreciate you taking the time to constantly answer my annoying questions. You probably wish you had never sold to me! I do really appreciate it though, so thank you.
I pulled the pins out of the DIN8 because I thought that perhaps some solder had bridged one of the RGB pins to one of the other pins but it seemed to be OK.
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Its no problem. :) just wanting you to get it working.
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Thank you very much :mrgreen:
I did solve the problem of the power cutting out or not working at all. It was the goddammned power chord! The part of the cable that plugs into the system is apparently a bit dodgy. MAN I wish I had known that a week ago!! I did finally get a picture with RGB, but it looked like only green was working. If I moved the cable, for some reason it then turned blue. When I plugged it into the non-RGB socket, it was all red. I think pins 48 and 49 are bridged. I just cannot get the solder to move off the pins. I was going to try some de-solder braid. Is that safe?
I know one thing, I'll never ever make all of these mistakes again when I do the DUO and IFU! Not a good way to "learn from mistakes though :cry:
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Braid is. fine. On the ifu at least you solder to the expansion port pins which will be easier. Glad you're getting closer to it working.
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The IFU should be dead easy. I really wanted to do it first, before attempting the RX. Only reason I chose the RX to do first is because there is no issue with putting the DIN8 in the RX compared to making a hole in the casing of the IFU. I want to make sure I have the tools to make it as neat as possible.
That and the fact that I cannot find the PSU from my original IFU system I bought in '96 and have nothing that fits the system. I am glad I didn't buy a shitty HK PSU for it like I did the RX. It seems that it already needs replacing and I shall be looking for a higher quality replacement. Hopefully the chord will be more than 20cms like the current one I have. Cheap Chinese shit.
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the mod for the IFU isnt documented many places so this may help:
http://www.obsolete-tears.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7231
its not in English but has pictures. you also probably want to ignore the DIN pinout they used and wire it up as the pc engine pinout. it can be a little tricky since the pins on the expansion port are in the opposite place as the console.
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That's excellent, thank you. I plan on doing the IFU when I go home today. I still need to buy a PSU though. I am thinking that I will just look for a plug adapter for one of my MD PSU's for the moment.
Also, when I re-did the mod again yesterday, I noticed another stuff up by myself. I had 49, 51 and 53 hooked up! If I had put the wires on the correct pins in the first place, I bet it could have worked first try. The pins in the chip are so damn fragile that I am afraid they will break off if I have to remove the damn wires again. When I removed the the wire from pin 49 yesterday, the damn thing lifted up! I did not even pull on the wire. I really need to find some better wire. I ended up going back to the threaded wire yesterday because the "solid core" wire (I asked for single core) is far too hard to use. It is so damn stiff! The proper kynar wire is not. Once I am home, I can go to my usual Jaycar store and get the wire I need.
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I think I have killed my precious DUO-RX :cry: Several pins on the C6260 seem to have been either fried or disconnected from the PCB. I am getting severely messed up colour and missing bits of information. I used desolder braid to remove the solder off the pins, but it did not help. I tried to re-connect the pins to the PCB in front of the chip by dragging tiny bits of solder down the legs which seemed to work for some, but not all. I blame myself, of course. But if I had know the reason I was getting no power was nothing but the POWER CABLE being faulty, this would never have happened! The soldering to and from the pins multiple times killed them.
I suppose now I have to hope there is a way to repair it. :pray: I was hoping that the chip could be connected to vias on the board.
More annoying is that when I soldered to the HuChip on the the junk PCE DUO I am re-capping, it was perfect the first time. I decided to do it yesterday when I was capping. I suppose I have to hope that the thing works when I finally finish repairing it! I still have one of my IFU systems plus a SG+SCD2 to mod, but killing a DUO-RX hurts, really badly. Especially considering how stupidly expensive they have become in the past 6 months! I paid less than 6000yen for the naked system I f*cked up, I would have to spend almost 4 times that now to replace it. This is why I never touch my original systems and always buy a second or third system for modding. My original RX baby is safe and sound in his box.