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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: EmperorIng on March 01, 2016, 05:07:11 AM
Title: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: EmperorIng on March 01, 2016, 05:07:11 AM
It's a shooter that is not talked about too much on this forum - a search results in less than 80 posts mentioning it, and most of those posts talking about wanting to buy it, or its good graphics. (Perhaps there is a reason for this.)
I thought I would open up a topic of conversation to hear about people actually playing it, and what their opinions of the game are. I've only played it in Ootake, but I've thought about purchasing it... sometimes. It's towards the middle-bottom of my wish list.
There are certainly aspects worth praising, like the aforementioned graphical effects, as well as its soundtrack. It certainly shows off a flair for spectacle beyond other mediocre mid-tier PCE devs (e.g. Right Stuff). Level design has some interesting twists and turns, and each stage feels distinct from the last. While the "turn around" gimmick is one of my least favorite and most boring in shmups, it is at least supplemented by three weapons with their own range and special attacks.
I've only played a few stages, though, and there are some seriously aggravating aspects to the game. Chief among them is how easy it is for enemies to teleport and materialize on top of you with no warning, taking away most of your health in one go. Other frustrations surface: weapons feel weak (especially since it's easy to lose power from a hit), and enemies seem to revel in cheap hits, appearing quickly out of nowhere or firing from off-screen. It makes it hard to persevere in the game when it seems like the deck is stacked against you.
I'd love to hear your thoughts: good, bad, mediocre, and whatnot.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on March 01, 2016, 06:26:36 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, I've not heard of this one, so I had not looked into it. The sprite scaling and rotation is super impressive! Just looking at the longplay on the pce bible has me interested, but I can see what you're saying in the video. The weapons look super weak (and sound super weak), so I can see what you meant there.
I will have to give this a burn and check it out though, the graphics look like an awesome benchmark for what PCE can push out.
Edit: Those huge ships in level 2, wow!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: MrBroadway on March 01, 2016, 08:00:51 AM
Honestly, it looks a bit like a cheap Gradius clone.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: KingDrool on March 01, 2016, 08:15:59 AM
Honestly, it looks a bit like a cheap Gradius clone.
It definitely has that vibe, yes. I own it, but haven't played it in a long time. As I recall, I really liked how it looked, but wasn't too blown away by it. I should pull it out again to give it another spin.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on March 01, 2016, 08:26:14 AM
Honestly, it looks a bit like a cheap Gradius clone.
I agree that the style is not the most original, but it's technically very impressive to me from the videos. I'd have to play it to give any real opinion - but I'd like to see more videos of games where scaling and rotation is used, and of sprites larger than the ships in level 2. But yeah, I agree, the style is not going to make it stand out in a screen shot
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: PunkicCyborg on March 01, 2016, 08:40:07 AM
Played it, beat it, loved it. I uploaded the great vocal track at the end to YT https://youtu.be/73_fCwyiYbo
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: esteban on March 01, 2016, 08:44:55 AM
I would love any corrections/additional information on this blurb I wrote:
Quote
PSY•S: What?! I never realized that the soundtrack to Metamor Jupiter (SCD, 01.22.1993) was, apparently, by Psy•S, a Japanese progressive pop/rock band. Masaya Matsuura, the main creative force behind Psy•S, would create PaRappa the Rapper (12.06.1996) on PlayStation nearly four years after composing the soundtrack to Metamor Jupiter on PC-Engine.
I thought I'd share that trivia, since I haven't really played this game in years...which means it must not have impressed me to much :(
Or, now that I think about it, I wanted to wait until I had the VIRTUAL CUSHION before fully experiencing Metamor Jupiter.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: NightWolve on March 01, 2016, 08:47:47 AM
Hm, never heard of it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: MrBroadway on March 01, 2016, 08:50:04 AM
Honestly, it looks a bit like a cheap Gradius clone.
It definitely has that vibe, yes. I own it, but haven't played it in a long time. As I recall, I really liked how it looked, but wasn't too blown away by it. I should pull it out again to give it another spin.
I mean, even the boss of the first stage is a Gradius boss clone, patterns and all.
However, I do like Gradius (should be obvious from my profile pic), so if other Gradius fans are vouching for its quality, I might have to check it out.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on March 01, 2016, 08:58:00 AM
15:10 or so in
The tube level puts castlevania iv on notice, wow!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: poponon on March 01, 2016, 09:25:41 AM
always wanted to try the 3 player co-op mode out with people willing to be the little satellites. could be alot of fun if you took turns being the main ship
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: ccovell on March 01, 2016, 09:57:27 AM
I made a review of the game several years back: http://chrismcovell.com/MetamorReview/
I still think it's just slightly above average.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on March 01, 2016, 10:14:13 AM
Loving the breakdown, this is great, and wow what an explosion!!
(http://chrismcovell.com/MetamorReview/53.png)
In all honesty, I hated when sprite scaling was used to this degree, how did anyone think this looked good?
The SNES popularized pixelization as a style, which carried over through the 32-bit generation, similar to the fugly pre-rendered cgi fad. The SNES never scaled sprites though. The fad caused too many developers of games for all consoles to waste frames of animation on pre-rendered scaling instead of real artwork and animation.
I think that the fully pixelated part of that explosion is a poor attempt at mosaic, which several other PCE games do well.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on March 01, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
The fad caused too many developers of games for all consoles to waste frames of animation on pre-rendered scaling instead of real artwork and animation.
Exactly, this ruined a generation for me at the time. I've gone back and "gotten over it" but at the time it was atrocious to me.
I think that the fully pixelated part of that explosion is a poor attempt at mosaic, which several other PCE games do well.
These over-scaled explosions are one of the examples of how poorly it can be done, I would say. I agree, that there are a lot of examples of it well done, but man this is a example of how fugly it can be when done in excess.
El Viento on Genesis was one of the stand out criminals in doing this, 4:20 in it starts. The inital explosions are not too horrible, but once the squids/octopus shows up.
But to keep it on topic, what are some of the good obey examples of sprite scaling? I think this game does a admiral job, from a video perspective, but I am sure there are plenty of better examples.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Dicer on March 01, 2016, 03:34:51 PM
But to keep it on topic, what are some of the good obey examples of sprite scaling? I think this game does a admiral job, from a video perspective, but I am sure there are plenty of better examples.
Star Parodier does it quite a bit...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: imparanoic on March 01, 2016, 05:51:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaya_Matsuura
it's Vib ribbon, parappa the rapper and unlammy jammy first game!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: shubibiman on March 01, 2016, 05:55:41 PM
I would love any corrections/additional information on this blurb I wrote:
Quote
PSY•S: What?! I never realized that the soundtrack to Metamor Jupiter (SCD, 01.22.1993) was, apparently, by Psy•S, a Japanese progressive pop/rock band. Masaya Matsuura, the main creative force behind Psy•S, would create PaRappa the Rapper (12.06.1996) on PlayStation nearly four years after composing the soundtrack to Metamor Jupiter on PC-Engine.
I thought I'd share that trivia, since I haven't really played this game in years...which means it must not have impressed me to much :(
Or, now that I think about it, I wanted to wait until I had the VIRTUAL CUSHION before fully experiencing Metamor Jupiter.
Never heard of that but as a prog fan, I must check that. I don't really know japanese prog bands though. But I wouldn't be surprised if it were true as the musics in this game often sound "progish".
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: shabba on March 02, 2016, 01:04:35 AM
Not to ignore the pixel discussion, but this looks like a cool game. It's mid priced on Ebay and there are 3 or so for sale right now.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Sadler on March 02, 2016, 02:55:41 AM
But to keep it on topic, what are some of the good obey examples of sprite scaling? I think this game does a admiral job, from a video perspective, but I am sure there are plenty of better examples.
Star Parodier does it quite a bit...
I still think Star Parodier might be the best looking game on the system. A few other examples: Nexzr I think uses tiles to show the player's ship huge after a level and maybe sprites to show the player scaling in at the beginning? Bomberman '93 has scaling at the end of a multiplayer match. Panic Bomber has the giant bomb effect.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: KingDrool on March 02, 2016, 03:03:31 AM
Inspired by this thread, I took out the game and played it for a bit last night. It's a pretty decent game, for sure. Really great graphics (mostly), cool effects, etc. And it didn't feel like a Gradius ripoff as much as I thought it would. I got more Gate of Thunder vibes, actually. Especially from the first boss.
But, as usual, Chris's review was pretty spot on.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Necromancer on March 02, 2016, 03:21:04 AM
Cosmic Fantasy 4 uses that mosaic crap in scene transitions.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: EmperorIng on March 02, 2016, 03:30:40 AM
Inspired by this thread, I took out the game and played it for a bit last night. It's a pretty decent game, for sure. Really great graphics (mostly), cool effects, etc. And it didn't feel like a Gradius ripoff as much as I thought it would. I got more Gate of Thunder vibes, actually. Especially from the first boss.
While the first boss has a "shoot the core!" vibe, the game doesn't really have the meticulous design of a Gradius, imo. Some of the later bosses have really lightning-fast attacks that you sort of have to know in advance to deal with (the tentacle boss towards the end comes to mind), with oodles of health to boot. Enemies come at you so damn fast in this game. :x I mean, there are some things to like though which is why I am open to hearing more from others.
Hard to pin down its inspiration: maybe a dash of R-Type, maybe a dash of the 100 other hori space shooters released at this time.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Necromancer on March 02, 2016, 03:58:08 AM
Please re-read OP please; the topic is about Metamor Jupiter.
Metamor Jupiter has mosaic effects, scaled and rotated sprites, and whatever effect the neat tube level background is called; discussing such graphical effects and comparing 'em to those found in other titles is certainly on topic, so what exactly is your problem?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: EmperorIng on March 02, 2016, 04:54:31 AM
Quote from: EmperorIng
It's a shooter that is not talked about too much on this forum - a search results in less than 80 posts mentioning it, and most of those posts talking about wanting to buy it, or its good graphics.
I thought I would open up a topic of conversation to hear about people actually playing it, and what their opinions of the game are.
But to keep it on topic, what are some of the good obey examples of sprite scaling?
not to single out Gredler.
Just want to keep things on-topic. My topic about Efera and Jiliora (another game virtually untalked about) was quickly derailed with the discussion of how much A Black Falcon sucks at Ys (consensus: very) and every other game in existence. I certainly don't mind at all people talking about the graphical effects in-game (even with the odd comparison or two), though I personally think that's a bit besides the point (and reinforces my thoughts in the OP that people only talk about the game's gfx). However, a general discussion of graphical effects and sprite-scaling is best-suited for a different topic. Even if it means there's less discussion about this game, that's fine by me; it just shows me there isn't much to talk about. Nothing stops someone from bumping a topic months or years later (as I've done) to chime in.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Black Tiger on March 02, 2016, 04:57:03 AM
A guy I know on another forum has 1CC'd every 16bit console shooter in existence, including Metamor Jupiter, and considers it one of the hardest shooters of the era to 1CC (though not for completely good reasons, in his opinion). He also noted interestingly that the PCE has the most shooters of these consoles without any scoring whatsoever (e.g. Hany in the Sky, Legion, Psychic Storm, etc.).
It makes me wonder why Flight Plan didn't see fit to throw in the extra few lines of code to give numeric values for enemies shot down. lol I guess Metamor Jupiter is in the purest sense a console shooter.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: NightWolve on March 02, 2016, 05:11:49 AM
Metamor Jupiter has mosaic effects, scaled and rotated sprites, and whatever effect the neat tube level background is called; discussing such graphical effects and comparing 'em to those found in other titles is certainly on topic, so what exactly is your problem?
I don't usually understand the desire to completely stay on topic in a thread on a forum where I don't really see a lot of detailed discussion/conversations and the threads average 2 pages and what not...
If your thread got a few extra posts because of a slight tangent and made it to 2+ pages, that's a thread that didn't bomb, that is, it got some reasonable attention, generated some discussion...
Seems like those that want strict fidelity to their topic would rather have less activity in the thread than see even slight tangents that might've added useful or other interesting discussion to the table... Not like somebody veered into talking about Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders in a thread called "Metamor Jupiter" here...
If you had hundreds of active posters, and every thread got respectable attention, it might make more sense, but for our level of activity, to try to kill off even a slight tangent seems overly OCD and taking for granted the thread activity rates...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on March 02, 2016, 06:16:46 AM
Sorry to derail (and I saw another bad ass thread spawned from the posts above) but I really did think that comparing this games visual prowess to others could be achieved by some references to games that one up this in terms of effects. I am kinda slanted towards the graphical capabilities of the teams behind these games, and was genuinely impressed by this game, and wondered what games it could be compared to in terms of sprite scaling, mosiacs ,etc.
Do you not want us to discuss graphics and compare and contrast them to other games? Should we also not talk about gradius and the similarities it has to this game, because this thread is not about gradius? Also, should we not compare weapon types, enemy patterns, and gameplay from other games that are similar? I usually like to compare games to their contemporaries, so it often brings in other games than the one in subject in order to form a better understanding of the way the subject title fits into the landscape as a whole.
I did not get a chance to burn and play the game, but it's these graphical effects that draw me to try it. It'd be nice to see some other examples so when I do play this game I have some frame of reference to things I am not currently aware of that compare to this game. I'll take this discussion to the other thread, but thanks for pointing this one out - super cool!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: NightWolve on March 02, 2016, 06:50:17 AM
Do you not want us to discuss graphics and compare and contrast them to other games? Should we also not talk about gradius and the similarities it has to this game, because this thread is not about gradius?
See, if you even have to ask something like that, it's time to just exit "his" overprotective thread... :/
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Black Tiger on March 02, 2016, 06:51:43 AM
Sorry to derail (and I saw another bad ass thread spawned from the posts above) but I really did think that comparing this games visual prowess to others could be achieved by some references to games that one up this in terms of effects. I am kinda slanted towards the graphical capabilities of the teams behind these games, and was genuinely impressed by this game, and wondered what games it could be compared to in terms of sprite scaling, mosiacs ,etc.
Do you not want us to discuss graphics and compare and contrast them to other games? Should we also not talk about gradius and the similarities it has to this game, because this thread is not about gradius? Also, should we not compare weapon types, enemy patterns, and gameplay from other games that are similar? I usually like to compare games to their contemporaries, so it often brings in other games than the one in subject in order to form a better understanding of the way the subject title fits into the landscape as a whole.
I did not get a chance to burn and play the game, but it's these graphical effects that draw me to try it. It'd be nice to see some other examples so when I do play this game I have some frame of reference to things I am not currently aware of that compare to this game. I'll take this discussion to the other thread, but thanks for pointing this one out - super cool!
You can, just start another Metamor Jupitor thread.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Gredler on May 10, 2016, 10:06:03 AM
You can, just start another Metamor Jupitor thread.
I just might do that. I would like to discuss my thoughts on Metamor Jupitor.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: SignOfZeta on May 10, 2016, 10:53:07 AM
I believe Exodus has an interesting story about this game. It would be cool if he shared it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: exodus on May 10, 2016, 11:42:52 AM
Oh yeah - it's not that crazy, but I was in Friends in Akihabara, when I came across Metamor Jupiter - I hadn't heard of it before, so I pulled it out, and on the back of the box, who do I see but my old pal Masaya Matsuura, of Parappa the Rapper fame. I was actually going to see him the next day, so I picked it up, because why the heck not!
So I brought it to his office the next day, and after chatting a while said "hey, do you remember this?" and he said "oh man, I forgot about this game. This is actually the first game with my music in it." - previously he was the songwriter for an excellent band called PSY.S, which is known for its song Parachute Limit, from City Hunter (which also had a PC Engine game made from it, but his music wasn't in there).
So I had him sign the obi (why the heck not), and I asked him what he thought of the game, since I was in japan and away from my console, so I couldn't play it yet. He said he'd never played it. He just wrote some tracks, sent them off, and that was it. No wonder he didn't remember it!
Oh yeah - it's not that crazy, but I was in Friends in Akihabara, when I came across Metamor Jupiter - I hadn't heard of it before, so I pulled it out, and on the back of the box, who do I see but my old pal Masaya Matsuura, of Parappa the Rapper fame. I was actually going to see him the next day, so I picked it up, because why the heck not!
So I brought it to his office the next day, and after chatting a while said "hey, do you remember this?" and he said "oh man, I forgot about this game. This is actually the first game with my music in it." - previously he was the songwriter for an excellent band called PSY.S, which is known for its song Parachute Limit, from City Hunter (which also had a PC Engine game made from it, but his music wasn't in there).
So I had him sign the obi (why the heck not), and I asked him what he thought of the game, since I was in japan and away from my console, so I couldn't play it yet. He said he'd never played it. He just wrote some tracks, sent them off, and that was it. No wonder he didn't remember it!
So I had him sign the obi (why the heck not), and I asked him what he thought of the game, since I was in japan and away from my console, so I couldn't play it yet. He said he'd never played it. He just wrote some tracks, sent them off, and that was it. No wonder he didn't remember it!
Ah, kind of a bummer, never got to see his work in-game or perhaps modify it in reaction/inspiration to the game during development but not unusual for how things worked.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: exodus on May 10, 2016, 01:29:07 PM
sure, you can use my story! he couldn't remember how many songs in there were his, either, and frankly I couldn't figure it out when playing :P
Next time I see him maybe I'll try to play through it with him, if we can get a duo over there!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: Izod1337 on May 10, 2016, 02:52:12 PM
That's a crazy story Exodus! I always find it funny in some way that there are always people who work on certain aspects of a game, but never try it out themselves. Nonetheless, Matsuura seems like a swell guy.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: SignOfZeta on May 10, 2016, 03:12:30 PM
I work in automotive development and almost never drive the cars and trucks we help create because most cars and trucks are f*cking lame so I can relate to that.
And yeah, even though the shit sucks, I am still curious to test drive some of them, but not curious enough to make time for it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: exodus on May 11, 2016, 08:13:41 AM
yeah - I think 20 years later or whatever he might be interested to hear the old stuff - we'll see if it happens!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Metamor Jupiter
Post by: esteban on May 11, 2016, 09:39:26 AM