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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: cdpog on March 10, 2016, 11:42:44 AM
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So I'm trying to decide which way I want to go for a modded Duo, either getting a RGB Scart, plugging it into a converter, then outputting HDMI to my LG flatscreen, OR getting a DUO that has Component outputs, and directly plugging into the component inputs on my tv.
Ive spent a good amount of time online looking, and while there is plenty of info about SCART vs composite, I dont see much about component.
So what is everyone opinions? How do you all do it?
Thanks!!!
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You should make sure your tv can handle 240p content, not all LCDs or HDTVs can.
As far as actually quality of the image the difference between RGB and component is minimal and most people would be really, really hard pressed to tell the difference.
The main thing is going to be making sure your tv can handle the 240p image from the Duo.
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RGB would probably be the best option in the long run because upscalers for classic gaming will continue to use that as the best source quality for consoles. Component is a pretty much dead format now and some TVs don't like 240p component.
Another advantage to RGB is it's easy to switch over to a PVM if you ever wanted to go that route
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RGB with a Framemesiter is going to be your best bet. Just using component into your HDTV will still require scaling. Assuming that your tv will take the 240p signal, there's going to be some noticeable lag and picture issues. This is where an external converter comes in. It will typically do a much better job of upscaling the signal.
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so i just checked, and my tv can do 240p, so thats good if i end up going to component route.
however, it seems like you guys all are suggesting RGB might be the better bet. I have looked into the framemeister, but it seems to be impossible to find for less than 300 bucks. so that might have to wait.
so even without the upscaler, if I used something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/CKITZE-BG-460-System-Digital-Converter/dp/B00988GMLG/ref=pd_sim_147_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=41G1LHXLbaL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1XA8M9ZS4K82G40CACQJ
would that look decent?
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Component is a pretty much dead format now and some TVs don't like 240p component.
Another advantage to RGB is it's easy to switch over to a PVM if you ever wanted to go that route
Not really a dead format, since every tv still ships with component input. S-Video, now that's a dead format.
so i just checked, and my tv can do 240p, so thats good if i end up going to component route.
however, it seems like you guys all are suggesting RGB might be the better bet. I have looked into the framemeister, but it seems to be impossible to find for less than 300 bucks. so that might have to wait.
so even without the upscaler, if I used something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/CKITZE-BG-460-System-Digital-Converter/dp/B00988GMLG/ref=pd_sim_147_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=41G1LHXLbaL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1XA8M9ZS4K82G40CACQJ
would that look decent?
Make sure it does 240p over component. Some tvs will do 240p over composite, but freak out when given the same resolution over component. Honestly your best option is to save up for a framemeister, which can take RGB or component. Unfortunately most of these cheap upscalers/converters do a piss poor job at handling 240p content. A lot of them introduce some SERIOUS input lag. Some of them will even end up stretching the image and other weird shit to it. Don't waste your money on one of those, save it up, put it towards a framemeister. I know it's not what you want to hear, I've been there man. I wasted money on stuff like this and it just wasn't worth it.
Look at it this way if any of these things were a viable, valid solution, everyone would know it. People have been trying and searching out cheaper alternatives to the XRGB series for years. Unfortunately, just nothing out there compares.
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
You notice any lag with that converter/upscaler?
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
I have this one being delivered today: http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-PL-SH2H-Converter-Upscaler-Consoles/dp/B00D86UYBS
I'll post about it. The reviews have been good overall and I can return it if it's a piece of crap. IF this doesn't do the job, I'll put aside for a Frameister. There just aren't any upscale units that compare for less money.
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Other than branding, that looks identical to the one Keith posted on ebay. :-k
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Other than branding, that looks identical to the one Keith posted on ebay. :-k
It probably is, but I have the one that uses composite and s-video. It's a total crapshoot but with a good return policy, I'm not worried.
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I'll throw my vote in for the less loved component video.
If you have a TV that can handle 240p with minimal lag I would go for that. Especially if you are going to hook up more than one console this way. I have an old JVC DLP TV that rocks 240p with minimal lag. (Model HD-56G786 if anyone cares.)
Remember there is more cost involved with RGB than just a Framemesiter, the cables are more expensive than plain RCA cables and if you are using more than one console you will probably want a SCART switch box as well. For me personally the quality improvement from component to RGB is not worth the cost.
You can use dirt cheap composite switch boxes for switching component, if you don't mind using 2 of them. (One for video and one for audio.) This is what I do and it works great.
But if you are just going to hook up 1 console and want the absolute best video possible then RGB to a Framemesiter or PVM is probably the way to go.
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
You notice any lag with that converter/upscaler?
I noticed just a little bit of lag when I used this with shooters like final zone 2 and gates of thunder and I was getting killed.
When I played the same games on my CRT with s-video all of a sudden I was playing way better. Could be the lag or it could have been that I got better...betting on lag lol. Just depends what game you play really.
For the price it is not a bad box versus the price of the XRGB mini.
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You can try using the 240p test suite to evaluate it and lag, using your crt, composite, RGB, your hdtv and a camera.
It is available as Rom and cd.
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You can try using the 240p test suite to evaluate it and lag, using your crt, composite, RGB, your hdtv and a camera.
It is available as Rom and cd.
This 240p test suite sounds interesting. I have an old 4:3 PC monitor I found with VGA, S-video, and HDMI input. It seems to have zero lag to me which I find hard to believe. I use the S-video connection most of the time. I think there isn't any lag because it doesn't apply filters or upscaling to the image. It's truly a raw feed. Who knows? Only way to know for sure is to test the lag I guess.
So I just burn the test suite to a CD and pop it in my DUO?
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
You notice any lag with that converter/upscaler?
I noticed just a little bit of lag when I used this with shooters like final zone 2 and gates of thunder and I was getting killed.
When I played the same games on my CRT with s-video all of a sudden I was playing way better. Could be the lag or it could have been that I got better...betting on lag lol. Just depends what game you play really.
For the price it is not a bad box versus the price of the XRGB mini.
I do experience a little bit of flag as well on my flat screen t_v using this converter. However, the same t_v will accept component but that also lags the same amount so I actually think it's the t_v and not the converter.
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So I just burn the test suite to a CD and pop it in my DUO?
That's right, use the system card 3 version so it never loads again.
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
I have this one being delivered today: http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-PL-SH2H-Converter-Upscaler-Consoles/dp/B00D86UYBS
I'll post about it. The reviews have been good overall and I can return it if it's a piece of crap. IF this doesn't do the job, I'll put aside for a Frameister. There just aren't any upscale units that compare for less money.
It arrived tonight and I immediately set it up. With the Duo-R, it looks like absolute shit with S-video and even worse with the composite. I'm going to try it with my SNES and a couple of other devices/consoles, but in the meantime, I fooled around with my modern tv, a Sony KDL-40VL160, and found that with some tinkering, it will set itself to 4:3 when using the s-video jack. It apparently also accepts 240p as the picture is astounding. I still have the old SD TV downstairs I had years back with my TG-16 and DUO, so I'm going to hook this up to that and see if my eyes are fooling me, but this flat-screen is doing a remarkable job of upscaling on it's own.
As far as the scaler goes that I bought, if there is nothing it can do for my SNES, it's going back. I'll do nothing else at that point until I can purchase a framemeister which, if tonight is any indication, I might not need.
EDIT: The unit has adjustments built in, btw, for a few different resolutions from 480p to 1080p and it will adjust automatically for Pal or NTSC. The one I have here upscales composite and s-video to "full HD". Just an FYI.
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
I have this one being delivered today: http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-PL-SH2H-Converter-Upscaler-Consoles/dp/B00D86UYBS
I'll post about it. The reviews have been good overall and I can return it if it's a piece of crap. IF this doesn't do the job, I'll put aside for a Frameister. There just aren't any upscale units that compare for less money.
It arrived tonight and I immediately set it up. With the Duo-R, it looks like absolute shit with S-video and even worse with the composite. I'm going to try it with my SNES and a couple of other devices/consoles, but in the meantime, I fooled around with my modern tv, a Sony KDL-40VL160, and found that with some tinkering, it will set itself to 4:3 when using the s-video jack. It apparently also accepts 240p as the picture is astounding. I still have the old SD TV downstairs I had years back with my TG-16 and DUO, so I'm going to hook this up to that and see if my eyes are fooling me, but this flat-screen is doing a remarkable job of upscaling on it's own.
As far as the scaler goes that I bought, if there is nothing it can do for my SNES, it's going back. I'll do nothing else at that point until I can purchase a framemeister which, if tonight is any indication, I might not need.
EDIT: The unit has adjustments built in, btw, for a few different resolutions from 480p to 1080p and it will adjust automatically for Pal or NTSC. The one I have here upscales composite and s-video to "full HD". Just an FYI.
DANG. so what youre saying is now you'll be saving up for the framemeister then?
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There's a reason the Framemeister is so popular. It does its job well.
Personally, I am happy I went the PVM/BVM route. It's cheaper than the framemeister, and best of all, it allows me to have as many systems as I want since the BVM doesn't belong in common areas. I don't think my wife would be happy about having a dozen game systems in the living room.
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DANG. so what youre saying is now you'll be saving up for the framemeister then?
Yes.
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Ok I have been through the house, used all 3 TV's and hooked up the Duo-R, a SNES and a Saturn. Absolutely none of them work through this device on either of my modern HD televisions. The Sony I have here, my 40 inch, is a good bit nicer than my newer but bigger Samsung, a 52 inch. It shows as the TV supports 240p and will adjust for 4:3 automatically. The Samsung also supports 240p but has to be forced into 4:3. Regardless, none of the systems worked on the new tv's but looked the part on my old Samsung HDTV/SDTV tube telly, the one I used for years to play my stuff on. It's a 32 inch and I can watch TV on it right now in 1080i or 720p through component. My Sony is upstairs hooked to my desktop office/gaming computer and in the need for more space, I want to get rid of the old Samsung. My plan is to make my office space into my area where I can work, play games, beat off. My wife wants to make the 3rd bedroom into a, well, 3rd bedroom, so the old TV needs to go. Long story, sorry.
This Sony flat screen has s-video and it's perfect for my Duo-R. It looks as good as the old Samsung, but most of my consoles don't have s-video on them. My Duo-R has the mod from Keith Courage. It seems that the Framemeister is my only choice that will allow me the most flexibility.
Anyone have one for cheap? :mrgreen:
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Shabba,
If all you need is S-Video here you go:
SNES Cable for less than $4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-Video-Cable-for-SNES-N64-Gamecube-NGC-Nintendo-64-NTSC-/251953120314?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
Saturn Cable for less than $7
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Gold-Plated-SAV-RCA-Video-Audio-Composite-Cable-for-Sega-Saturn-S-Video-AV-/300953394281?hash=item4612385c69:g:zO4AAOxym2BSF-e-
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The only SNES s-video cable I've used that didn't have rolling bars or other distortion is a Monster brand Gamecube cable.
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Shabba,
If all you need is S-Video here you go:
SNES Cable for less than $4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-Video-Cable-for-SNES-N64-Gamecube-NGC-Nintendo-64-NTSC-/251953120314?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
Saturn Cable for less than $7
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Gold-Plated-SAV-RCA-Video-Audio-Composite-Cable-for-Sega-Saturn-S-Video-AV-/300953394281?hash=item4612385c69:g:zO4AAOxym2BSF-e-
Thanks for that. I don't think I'm too worried about it yet but with the pending loss of my old TV, I'm just a little concerned about playing my old consoles on a newer TV. I'm fortunate that this Sony has S-video at all. But one day, I might not have this one either and I'd just like to have an option which is where the Framemeister comes into play.
Sorry for that long story. I was really just kind of talking out loud and got way off the original topic. To sum up all of my posts, thumbs down on the Panlong HDMI upscaler.
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I would say RGB SCART with a Framemeister a great choice for a modern TV. Also RGB SCART is good for PVM and BVM as well. Component alone while a good second choice it alone will not be a good solution for a modern tv. Cheap scalers are just that. But hey what ever works for you. I really like RGB SCART. I have about 5 to 6 systems on RGB SCART. TG16/PCE looks great with a RGB mod. I love my Duo-R with the RGB mod.
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How and why are you using that upscaler/converter for composite and s-video when it is designed to take a rgb scart input and then output HDMI?
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Get one of these to convert scart RGB to HDMI http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-To-HDMI-720P-1080PHD-Video-Converter-Monitor-FW1S-for-DVD-HDTV-STB-/381565861179?hash=item58d718fd3b:g:8m0AAOSwv9hW4Tuo
They work great.
RGB with this converter definitely looks better than component on my TVs.
Would you recommend those over the RGB SCART to Component converters?
I'm speaking specifically of this one: http://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCART-Component-Converter-Genesis/dp/B004XSSDPO
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I've never used one of those myself but I have spoken with others who use that particular one with no issues. It all depends on how the scart connection is wired. meaning, if it is set up to run the audio through the scart cable then using the component video converter wont give you any audio since it only converts a video signal.
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I'm currently installing and RGB amp (on the bench tonight) on a PCE Duo and will be running a 8PIN DIN to EuroSCART cable to a PVM 2030A.
The component mod is cool, but I've never done it, I went the PVM route instead of the plasma/framemeister route.
In the next week I'll have some more well informed opinions on this subject.
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I've never used one of those myself but I have spoken with others who use that particular one with no issues. It all depends on how the scart connection is wired. meaning, if it is set up to run the audio through the scart cable then using the component video converter wont give you any audio since it only converts a video signal.
The reason I specifically asked about that one is because I already own one of those, but was just wondering whether going RGB SCART to HDMI would offer any visual benefits over that.
There are some reviews out there that seem to be quite big on these things.
Re the component converter,
I get around the audio issue by using a SCART switcher box (which also carries audio).
You could also mod these converters. Apparently not that difficult.
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Well, the SCART to component converter is not an upscaler. So if you're running it into an HDTV, your TV still has to scale the component signal to whatever it wants to display. I used one of these before I got my first PVM, so that I could run it into a commercial Sony CRT.
As for getting audio out, I just used one of these between the converter and SCART cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-to-Audio-Extractor-for-Component-YUV-RGB-Video-Converter-CVS287-CSY-2100-/221190880604?hash=item338000fd5c:g:QkIAAMXQMmJRIR0I
The fit is a little loose on this guy, but it works fine.
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I was going to go for something like that, but this suited me better.
(http://www.cables.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/7/thumbnail/800x600/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/7/27429.jpg)
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I was going to go for something like that, but this suited me better.
(http://www.cables.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/7/thumbnail/800x600/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/7/27429.jpg)
That's the one I use. It seems to be the best option unless you want to spend $200 on the one built by a guy on Assemblergames.com
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That's the one I use. It seems to be the best option unless you want to spend $200 on the one built by a guy on Assemblergames.com
I've seen that one. Looks great but it's overkill for my needs.
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I use that one at home. Pretty handy and solid.
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Anyone have any issues in quality from a Duo with using an 8 Pin DIN to Component mod vs just the 3 seperate YPbPr outputs?
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If you put rca jacks for your component output you could use standard cables and you could probably keep RGB on the DIN and then you have the best of both worlds.
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I was going to go for something like that, but this suited me better.
(http://www.cables.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/7/thumbnail/800x600/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/7/27429.jpg)
Can you share a link to this please? :)
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That's the one I use. It seems to be the best option unless you want to spend $200 on the one built by a guy on Assemblergames.com
I hope they do another production run on these. I really wanted one but just couldn't drop the 200 bucks when they were taking pre-orders. The 3 port ones seem nice, but I'm going to end up with RGB on 8 consoles, just waiting on mods for 2 of them.
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I was going to go for something like that, but this suited me better.
(http://www.cables.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/7/thumbnail/800x600/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/7/27429.jpg)
Can you share a link to this please? :)
There's a bunch of places where you can get them from. eBay, Amazon, etc.
Some are branded a little differently. Just make sure that in the item description it mentions something along the lines of "RGB connections on all scart input sockets".
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-SWITCHER-SELECTOR-SWITCH-BOX-CONNECT-3-WAY-DEVICES-2-1-SOCKET-AUDIO-RECORD-/181102966474?var=&hash=item2a2a93f6ca:m:mqR3PDmrznykrL5Cr0pNGyg
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I'm an RGB scart fan.
But I guess that's because I can just plug it straight in the back of my CRT
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I've now disassembled an EU SCART cable, and am knee deep in trying to get the amp to work with the f*cking thing on a PVM. As I was going though my fifteenth overview of Red + Green, Green + Blue, Blue + Red, and one schematic of each solid color, I found something...
A photo of the title screen in FULL COMPOSITE COLOR.
It was awesome.