PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: TheAlphaOmegaX3 on April 23, 2016, 12:45:16 PM
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If you had to make a choice between:
GRADIUS II
GATE OF THUNDER
WINDS OF THUNDER
Which one would you pick up first? I was kinda leaning on Gradius 2 but if one of the others is that much better..... I know alot of you guys have played these and would love your opinion. BTW, reason I ask is due to finding a good deal and recently sold a couple of my SNES items and can only choose one for now. Thanks for any insight!
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Winds of Thunder.
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Winds of Thunder.
+1
Go for Gates of Thunder next.
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Gate of Thunder, no question.
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All three? Or Nexzr!
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I can't speak for Gradius II, but Gate of Thunder is one of the greatest shooters I ever played with a legendary soundtrack on par with the funding and quality level of the Ys soundtracks. Ryo Yonemitsu made Ys soundtracks legendary and someone called "Groove King" was responsible for Gate of Thunder's soundtrack working for Red and Hudson Soft.
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All three? Or Nexzr!
This....but if I HAD to choose one of the 3...Gate all day.
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I say (my way is more fun...and progresses from "universally appealing" to "niche audience"):
UNIVERSALLY APPEALING (easy):
Lords of Thunder...it has the biggest aesthetic "wow" factor. It is truly unique in its visual presentation. It is a lot of fun to play...even for casual shooter fans. A lot of people are telling you to buy the "best" game first...but I think you should go for the best visual treat first (don't worry, the game itself is solid). Then...
CASUAL SHOOTER FAN (easy):
Gate of Thunder: a fantastic game with a more "mainstream" (for shooters) aesthetic. Probably a stronger game than Lords (I have argued as much in the past), but it can't quite match the fantasy theme of Lords (the atmosphere).
GRADIUS FAN:
Gradius II is a great game (again, I posted about the game years ago), but I would say that it is for Gradius fans. You know what you are getting here. Haters are gonna hate (they are WRONG...the Gradius series DOES allow you to recover from setbacks and/or checkpoints, even if you are reduced to a pea-shooter). I raved about Gradius II when I first got it for the PCE years ago...and I haven't really changed my mind.
MANY PEOPLE PLAY SHOOTERS THE WRONG f*ckING WAY:
You should never turn off the console because you died and lost your powerups.
The entire point of the goddamn genre is to figure out a way to SURVIVE, even with a pea-shooter.
Use continues when you a learning a new game (or trying to beat a challenging game), because you have to practice, and you have to experiment with different strategies for survival.
You want a repertoire of survival skills, NOT A "PERFECT PLAYTHROUGH"
A *perfect* PLAY-THROUGH can be the final product after lots and lots of *organic* practice, experimentation, and pure desperation.
But your games should always have *some* spontaneity (even if *you* have to initiate it...for example: by not playing the exact same way every time)
/rant
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Lords of Thunder
Gate of Thunder
Gradius II
Lords of Thunder has so much more replay value and variety than Gate of Thunder.
Gradius II doesn't deserve to be in the same list.
If you're looking to buy one, then the Gate of Thunder 4-in-1 is the best value.
I can't speak for Gradius II, but Gate of Thunder is one of the greatest shooters I ever played with a legendary soundtrack on par with the funding and quality level of the Ys soundtracks. Ryo Yonemitsu made Ys soundtracks legendary and someone called "Groove King" was responsible for Gate of Thunder's soundtrack working for Red and Hudson Soft.
Guys who did music for Duran Duran did the GoT soundtrack.
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I can't speak for Gradius II, but Gate of Thunder is one of the greatest shooters I ever played with a legendary soundtrack on par with the funding and quality level of the Ys soundtracks. Ryo Yonemitsu made Ys soundtracks legendary and someone called "Groove King" was responsible for Gate of Thunder's soundtrack working for Red and Hudson Soft.
Guys who did music for Duran Duran did the GoT soundtrack.
Oh no kidding, no wonder it's one of the greatest soundtracks in videogame history. I ripped it along with the Ys I-IV and FF 4-5 tracks to record for cassette and have for listening in the car BITD. I never thought about wanting videogame music on-the-go until I encountered Ys Book I&II and Gate of Thunder.
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Gate of Thunder. It's the best balanced of the three. One of the best shooters of all time imo
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Thank you guys for all your opinion's! So many great shooters ( and games in general for that matter) on the PCE. Of course I want all three lol, but I can only pick one for now.
Gradius 2 may seem out of place when mentioning these legendary shooters. See, names like R-Type and Gradius to me are like the godfather of shooters. I have a love affair with both series. I have also really enjoyed a few of the Darius releases very much. I haven't played any of the Soldier series until I purchased my PCE, so it was just until recently I learned of them (don't kill me! lol). Now I want all three Hu-Cards! With my new found $60 I wanted to buy a CD game for my system. Yep, I knew what some of the most talked about shooters for the CD were. Happen to find out I could actually afford one of the games and it made the choice that much harder.
It really is a great conversation and I got some very good input. I will sleep on it and make my choice in the morning. I'll also update this with my choice for any that actually give a crap lol. Thanks again!
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Why having to decide between all these wonderful babies - when you can have them all for little money on the Wii Virtual Console.
Then you can think later about which game you'd like to spent your hard earned cash for a physical copy.
I for myself like all three. For showing off among friends and having them a try, Winds and Gate might be more appropriate. Gradius II is harder to get into for people not familiar with the power up system and the graphics aren't as detailed, but no wonder, its arcade counterpart is a few years older than the other two. To me, it has the most tightly and masterfully designed levels. I also praise its gameplay and music highly. One of the games I really like to play every now and then for 1-2 hours until I'm fed up of dying.
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Gate of Thunder is the best shooter I ever played, so easy choice.
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Of the three. Gate of Thunder is the only PCE exclusive and the more fast paced game of the three.
Winds of Thunder is great too but maybe a little bit more difficult so if your a noobie at shmups, Gate would be your best choice.
Gradius 2 is, IMHO, the best episode of the Gradius series after Gradius V. This port is quite faithful to the arcade and deserves being played.
Very difficult choice but if you want to get the real PCE feeling, Gate of Thunder has my vote.
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Of the three. Gate of Thunder is the only PCE exclusive and the more fast paced game of the three.
Winds of Thunder is great too but maybe a little bit more difficult so if your a noobie at shmups, Gate would be your best choice.
Gradius 2 is, IMHO, the best episode of the Gradius series after Gradius V. This port is quite faithful to the arcade and deserves being played.
Very difficult choice but if you want to get the real PCE feeling, Gate of Thunder has my vote.
See to me Lords of Thunder is the faster paced game. It feels like more crap is always flying at you, and it's hard to keep up. Especially since its imperative that you collect as many crystals as possible. Doing so without getting hit makes this one much more frantic feeling to me.
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Gate is the most well-crafted package, IMO. Putting aside the whole 4-in-1 value proposition, Gate is just a fantastic shooter that is well-paced, has good weapon balance, and excellent music.
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Of the three. Gate of Thunder is the only PCE exclusive and the more fast paced game of the three.
Winds of Thunder is great too but maybe a little bit more difficult so if your a noobie at shmups, Gate would be your best choice.
Gradius 2 is, IMHO, the best episode of the Gradius series after Gradius V. This port is quite faithful to the arcade and deserves being played.
Very difficult choice but if you want to get the real PCE feeling, Gate of Thunder has my vote.
See to me Lords of Thunder is the faster paced game. It feels like more crap is always flying at you, and it's hard to keep up. Especially since its imperative that you collect as many crystals as possible. Doing so without getting hit makes this one much more frantic feeling to me.
Everyone has a different skill set with games, but to me Gate feels like like I'm just relaxing on cruise control and moving around when necessary compared to Lords, where it feels more like an action platformer the way you move around so much more and deal with much more variety of scrolling and speeds. The variety of assets and gameplay overall make Lords feel twice as big as Gate. Lords has also always been more fun for me.
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Made my choice. Each game is excellent in their own way. In the end I decided, for right now, I think I want a different type of shooter that takes the action out of the realm of space/futuristic elements. I bought Winds Of Thunder for the different atmosphere and the different...Lords of Thunder? lol, to rain death upon my foes.
The other 2 are still on my wish list. I'll continue to be patient and look for another deal. In the not so far off future I'm sure I'll be enjoying all three. Thank you guys again for the input! This community is great.
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I bought Winds Of Thunder
(http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/DTZ)
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I bought Winds Of Thunder
(http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/DTZ)
LOL!
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Well I see that you bought Winds of Thunder. Either way, excellent choice! I like Gate of Thunder slightly more as the music for me is slightly better (though both kick ass).
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I bought Winds Of Thunder
(http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/DTZ)
You will not be disappointed. You said $60?
That's only $10 more than picking it up at at Electronics Boutique:
(http://archives.tg-16.com/EB/EB_1993_03_016.jpg)
More trivia, including stuff hidden in the Japanese Winds of Thunder artwork:
http://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1993_05.htm
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gate of thunder 100%. I've gotten the most enjoyment out of that game vs pretty much any other shooter on the system.
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You will not be disappointed. You said $60?
That's only $10 more than picking it up at at Electronics Boutique
Yep. That's exactly how I looked at it! LOL. Honestly, I looked at it like buying a new release on the current gen consoles. As long as the price does not go much over that, I have a hard time picking any current gen game when PCE gaming blows nearly everything away that has come out the past two years. IMO, from Atari to now, this newest generation of gaming is the worst so far.
More trivia, including stuff hidden in the Japanese Winds of Thunder artwork:
http://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1993_05.htm
Sweet! I love geek'in out over things like that. I'll insert that nugget of info in my sea of random gaming knowledge.
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There are a few new games that stand out on occasion. Mostly they're Wii U titles like DKC Tropical Freeze or Super Mario 3D World.
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Winds o' Thunder was a fine choice; it and Gate o' Thunder are both must haves, and the order you buy 'em in ain't all that important.
Have fun!
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Winds/Lords of Thunder is probably the objective best but I prefer Gate. TBH you can't go wrong with any of them but you can play Gradius on almost any device.
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Winds/Lords of Thunder is probably the objective best but I prefer Gate. TBH you can't go wrong with any of them but you can play Gradius on almost any device.
You're not wrong.
Gate O' Thunder is the better shootemup, arguably, but Lords O' Thunder has the more creative eye-candy-aesthetics.
But...both are too easy.
Which is a good thing if you are not the biggest fan of the genre.
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But...both are too easy.
Oh dear, I must really suck at playing shootemups, then! :oops:
Gotta put my vote out for Gate of Thunder ... the intro just sets it up perfectly with some excellent music that you just couldn't find on your friend's SNES/Genesis. A perfect showcase for the Turbo Duo.
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Oh dear, I must really suck at playing shootemups, then! :oops:
Don't fret good sir, for you are not alone in finding challenge in these games. Lords is one of the few shooters I've been able to beat on the system, so I suppose I can see how it can be called "too easy" hahaha
I haven't put much time into Gate of Thunder - I've never owned it, and have only tried a "backup" copy a few times to see what the hype was about. I grew up without a CD attachment, and only got a Duo abit over 2 years ago.
My vote is for Lords, since I was more drawn to and put more time into it after trying both - although lords was the second I tried of the two games I was toying with at the time. I will try Gate out this week, and see if I can best this "too easy" shooter :P
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I find that 'too easy' is just right for my meager shewty skills. :oops:
Even if y'all find the default difficulty level to be too easy, there's always hard/super/devil levels to try.
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Lords and Gate are great in that they are difficult if you blindly jump into them, but become very reasonable after you get a feel for them. The variety of weapons and different ways to deal with each section compliment nany different play styles. You just need to play until you've synced your oersonal play style. They really stand out from shallower games.
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I actually thought both games were quite difficult when I first played them. Only after beating them multiple times they become easy.
A game that I would consider way too easy is Star Parodier, where it's possible to 1cc on the first try.
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I love both LoT and GoT (There is only one Gate, btw, and it belongs to nobody) but Lords/Winds is much more unique. GoT is like a "real shooter" in that it's refined to the point where it's really similar to other shooters. LoT is much more unhinged. For example, when you are being pushed around and shit by rocks and stuff. The fact that you have a very generous life bar. It's all much more loose.
Tiger does well to point out that they do both accept different styles of play really well, something not a lot of shooters do. I go through GoT in a way that's probably different that other people.
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Winds is the greatest shooter of all time and Gate is a 9 out of 10.
They are both in the "best of the best" category.
My only one criticism of Gate is I found it too easy to finish.
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Man. I really don't think Lords is as good as that. It's so flawed and amateurish here and there. The way the bosses can die in less than two seconds and some take much longer. The way you can easily survive six or seven hits because your life bar is huge but if your weapon takes more than two you're probably f*cked anyway. And shops. Shops are bullshit in a serious shooter.
As a game it's 10/10 because the whole experience is so awesome. The graphics and music are just f*cking great. I'd say the same of ArmJoe (a fighting game based on Les Miserables) however, it wasn't a 10/10 fighting game like SFIII or KOF '98.
GoT doesn't take as many risks, the design is super conservative for a space shooter, and the music dares to actually cover more than one genre. However, the end product is as good as any shooter I've played before and nearly all since.
GoT is The Olympics, LoT is WWE. Just because they are both Hudson and have similar names doesn't mean they are all that similar or that they should be compared. The important thing is that noobs get both of these games before dropping major bread on Sapphire, Steam Hearts, Spriggan, or any of the other shooters that usually cost much more and aren't as good. Just because there are common US versions of both games doesn't mean, for once, that there are better more obscure JP-only ones like in the case of most systems. In these two cases we got lucky.
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Man. I really don't think Lords is as good as that. It's so flawed and amateurish here and there. The way the bosses can die in less than two seconds and some take much longer. The way you can easily survive six or seven hits because your life bar is huge but if your weapon takes more than two you're probably f*cked anyway. And shops. Shops are bullshit in a serious shooter.
As a game it's 10/10 because the whole experience is so awesome. The graphics and music are just f*cking great. I'd say the same of ArmJoe (a fighting game based on Les Miserables) however, it wasn't a 10/10 fighting game like SFIII or KOF '98.
GoT doesn't take as many risks, the design is super conservative for a space shooter, and the music dares to actually cover more than one genre. However, the end product is as good as any shooter I've played before and nearly all since.
GoT is The Olympics, LoT is WWE. Just because they are both Hudson and have similar names doesn't mean they are all that similar or that they should be compared. The important thing is that noobs get both of these games before dropping major bread on Sapphire, Steam Hearts, Spriggan, or any of the other shooters that usually cost much more and aren't as good. Just because there are common US versions of both games doesn't mean, for once, that there are better more obscure JP-only ones like in the case of most systems. In these two cases we got lucky.
Regarding shops, or at least the shop aspect of LoT... I think the inclusion of the shop, and the advantages it provides, is balanced out by collecting the crystals to spend in the shop.
To me the crystal collecting adds more challenge and difficulty to the game. Your are constantly darting around the screen trying to collect crystals, while tracking/dodging bullets, and killing the next wave of enemies. To me the crystal collecting is what makes LoT more difficult than GoT.
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Anyone who's played both games extensively knows how easy it is in Gate of Thunder to kill some bosses in less than two seconds, while some take much longer.
You don't have to make Lords easier by buying up everything you can in the shops or milking every exploit. The crystals are part of the scoring system and being as conservative wuth them as you can both increases the challenge and your final hi score. Just like spamming turbo switches and continues while tripping/throwing your way through a fighting game doesn't mean that's all there is to the game or that it's too easy.
Gate and Lords of Thunder have a comparable variety of music. Even if you believe that "guitars with drums" is somehow a genre.
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Gradius II. It's the only game out of the three that hasn't burned me out.
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winds of thunder forsure!
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Anyone who's played both games extensively knows how easy it is in Gate of Thunder to kill some bosses in less than two seconds, while some take much longer.
You don't have to make Lords easier by buying up everything you can in the shops or milking every exploit. The crystals are part of the scoring system and being as conservative wuth them as you can both increases the challenge and your final hi score. Just like spamming turbo switches and continues while tripping/throwing your way through a fighting game doesn't mean that's all there is to the game or that it's too easy.
Gate and Lords of Thunder have a comparable variety of music. Even if you believe that "guitars with drums" is somehow a genre.
The genre of music in Lords of Thunder is 80s heavy metal/power metal. I can't see how this would be even slightly up for debate. They ape said genre so specifically that you can tell exactly which guitarists/songs their cribbing from sometimes.
BUT DON'T FLY OFF THE HANDLE JUST YET. I'm not slamming the game for this. Remember the thread that shows all the art in games that was shamelessness ripped off from Akira, Gundam, Terminator 2 or Bladerunner? We all love those games and I'm just describing the musical equivalent of that. It's OK. Don't get mad. Some of my favorite anime is only available with its original OST on Laserdisc because it rips off other shit so bad. I don't have any problem with it, honestly. Please don't Google my username for hours trying to shove somthing in my face that in the end doesn't even have anything to do with what I'm saying. Please don't wear out a keyboard on me just because the Professor is in a hybernation period. Please don't attack. Please.
But seriously, LoT is "that metal shooter". It's been that for 25 years. That's what it is and that's totally metal as far as I'm concerned. I love metal and I love Lords of Thunder.
Either way, this is key to why people who were into Iron Maiden, Helloween, etc already when the game came out were not quite as impressed as the non-metal people who are often blown away by the soundtrack of this game because to them rock peaked at Whitesnake. Those people think T's Music is some genius group when it was really just a couple of classically trained session musician who could copy anything. Guys who could easily do anything Metallica did except do it for the first time.
Gate has stuff that is more outside this genre which most definitely is a genre for sure and not something I made up just to shit talk a game I love and get into an argument on the Internet. However, people still talk about the LoT OST a lot more so I wouldn't say it worked for GoT in any way.
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Agree with Signofzeta. WoT's OST is so utterly 80's heavy metal that you can tell for almost every music which song it covers.
One of the musics is a clear cover of Rainbow's Gates of Babylon.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qu8HiZepRWo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I'd add that even metal lovers where impressed by WoT's OST because at the time, you would have this kind of OST in a video game.
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Gate>Lords(winds)>Gradius...
Either way you wont go wrong
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When I first played Winds/Lords when it was released in 1993 I was completely blown away by the music. I wasn't a fan of Heavy Metal or Rock music, I was heavily into UK Rave and Jungle music. In fact I'd rarely listen to music on any video games, often whilst playing I would turn the volume down and listen to the London Pirate radio stations instead. But Winds/Lords grabbed my attention, to this day I've yet to hear a video game with a better sound track.
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When I first played Winds/Lords when it was released in 1993 I was completely blown away by the music. I wasn't a fan of Heavy Metal or Rock music, I was heavily into UK Rave and Jungle music. In fact I'd rarely listen to music on any video games, often whilst playing I would turn the volume down and listen to the London Pirate radio stations instead. But Winds/Lords grabbed my attention, to this day I've yet to hear a video game with a better sound track.
BETTER SOUNDTRACKS:
Ys I & II
Ys III
Valis II
But I'm just messing with you.
Musical preferences are highly subjective.
Many mock my love for Valis II soundtrack...
Damn them. Damn them all.
:)
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When I first played Winds/Lords when it was released in 1993 I was completely blown away by the music. I wasn't a fan of Heavy Metal or Rock music, I was heavily into UK Rave and Jungle music. In fact I'd rarely listen to music on any video games, often whilst playing I would turn the volume down and listen to the London Pirate radio stations instead. But Winds/Lords grabbed my attention, to this day I've yet to hear a video game with a better sound track.
This is the phenomenon I was describing.
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Valis II on the PCE is the second-best soundtrack of the series. The first being the PC version of Valis II.
Gradius II is the most refined of the games listed in the OP. Gate and Winds are both very good games, but also very easy* and feel, stylistically, like homages to Technosoft. Very well-done homages, with Winds having more personality.
I love ya, Redsoft, but nobody could compete with Konami in their prime unless their names started with a NAM, CAP, or TAI.
*WoT strategy: earth armor + bombs lol
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Valis II on the PCE is the second-best soundtrack of the series. The first being the PC version of Valis II.
Gradius II is the most refined of the games listed in the OP. Gate and Winds are both very good games, but also very easy* and feel, stylistically, like homages to Technosoft. Very well-done homages, with Winds having more personality.
I love ya, Redsoft, but nobody could compete with Konami in their prime unless their names started with a NAM, CAP, or TAI.
*WoT strategy: earth armor + bombs lol
I don't think there were any doubts that Gates of Thunders (PCE) = Force of Thunder II/III (MegaGenesisDrive)
But, I like 'em all, so I am happy.
:)
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But seriously, LoT is "that metal shooter". It's been that for 25 years. That's what it is and that's totally metal as far as I'm concerned. I love metal and I love Lords of Thunder.
Either way, this is key to why people who were into Iron Maiden, Helloween, etc already when the game came out were not quite as impressed as the non-metal people who are often blown away by the soundtrack of this game because to them rock peaked at Whitesnake.
When I first played Winds/Lords when it was released in 1993 I was completely blown away by the music. I wasn't a fan of Heavy Metal or Rock music, I was heavily into UK Rave and Jungle music. In fact I'd rarely listen to music on any video games, often whilst playing I would turn the volume down and listen to the London Pirate radio stations instead. But Winds/Lords grabbed my attention, to this day I've yet to hear a video game with a better sound track.
This is the phenomenon I was describing.
It was not.
At the time I had a group of friends who were hardcore Metallers, I had listened to and was completey aware of bands like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Anthrax etc... just wasn't my thing.
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But Winds/Lords grabbed my attention, to this day I've yet to hear a video game with a better sound track.
Hm, I feel that about GoT - I think LoT has only about one good track on it, well, 1-2, and the menu/opening music is good, but I was disappointed with it actually after Gate of Thunder which to me has a far better, blindingly awesome soundtrack overall with more variety. I never bothered to rip any tracks from Lords of Thunder for my music playlist, they're fine for the game, but I didn't care about it any further than that. So for me, overall, I've never seen anything else match or excel the soundtrack punch of GoT and the Ys CDs (I-IV) where you have one "hit" track after another for most of the disc, that's been rare in the videogame industry and why I consider them legendary (as do others). Almost forgot, I left out FF IV back when Nobuo Uematsu was great. I still retain memories of most of its soundtrack as well.
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Yeah, the PCE versions of Ys are pretty amazing. Even Ys III, which as a game I didn't care for, has a killer soundtrack.
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Btw, I don't think either game is anywhere near "best" if such a think can be determined.
Tengai Makyo II is real high up on my list. Way up there.
Also, Dracula X, Chrono Trigger, Ys I&II, Ys III, KOF 99, Pulstar, Ikaruga, and Oh Deer!.
Also, Marvel vs Capcom II. That thing has literally no flaws.
I lied about that last one, there are flaws.
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I can't think of any soundtrack after FFIV that Uematsu did that I think was great or very original. I really like the FF I - III soundtracks (and games) though.
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To the OP, you made a great purchase and you really couldn't go wrong with either 3. The games are difficult with how you play them. If they feel easy play them on a harder setting. Don't buy everything in the shop in winds of thunder. Also, when you get these 3 games your next purchase really should be Seirei Senshi Spriggan.
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More Gradius 2 (Arcade left, PCE right) :
(http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/gradius/gradius2-07.png) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Hcxs4GEfPUM/Sd_QXzrzDeI/AAAAAAAACB8/Xdx5ZEStnNI/s320/grad25.png)
(http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/gradius/gradius2-05.png) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Hcxs4GEfPUM/Sd_QX5T36cI/AAAAAAAACCE/7LW5M5Dj0Ck/s320/grad24.png)
(http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/gradius/gradius2-03.png) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hcxs4GEfPUM/Sd_QpO54RWI/AAAAAAAACCM/y-lnC86-Cfo/s320/grad23.png)
(http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/gradius/gradius2-12.png) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Hcxs4GEfPUM/Sd_QE7T_IYI/AAAAAAAACBc/ISHmyfHAI1U/s320/grad29.png)
(http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/gradius/gradius2-02.png) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Hcxs4GEfPUM/Sd_Qpb6Ys8I/AAAAAAAACCU/p20NzOwYRhc/s320/grad22.png)