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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: Tatsujin on September 25, 2006, 04:04:25 PM
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 25, 2006, 04:04:25 PM
which are the most wished missing ports you liked to see on our lovely system?
for me definitely nice ports of Contra and Rastan Saga, since i'm very sure both of those would made a very good shape on the pce. it's a shame konami never thought about to bring out a contra, altough they decided to create the best looking akumajou dracula of alltime ;)
anyway the pce isn't blotchet with a lot of action plattformer. rastan saga and contra could grade up the already high quality soft line up just once more.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: PC Gaijin on September 25, 2006, 04:09:16 PM
Contra's a good call. I'd also like to see ports of Ninja Gaiden II and III. And a better port of Ninja Gaiden. How about the Thunderforce series? Final Fight? The PCE is woefully short of great beat-em-ups.
A PCE Shadowrun game on CD would have been awesome too. Always wanted to sample the Compile Mega CD Shadowrun.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: rolins on September 25, 2006, 04:09:22 PM
I would've like to see more arcade games from SNK. Art of Fighting and FF Special were so close to perfect that I can imagine Metal Slug or Pulstar being possible.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 25, 2006, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: "rolins"
I can imagine Metal Slug or Pulstar being possible.
i recently discussed this with keranu, and he showed some nice and very colorful ports in the range of the pce palette.
altough the games wouldn't be possible as a 1:1 port from the neogeo, they would make a very good shape i believe!
but those "new" generation games on the NG came out when the time of the PCE was almost expired, so there was no further interests in porting such titles, since PSX and saturn offers a much more powerful platform to port such nice 2D arcade games!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: runinruder on September 25, 2006, 04:55:53 PM
Phantasy Star II on CD and Chaos Legion on chip.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 25, 2006, 07:46:35 PM
Haha, Chaos Legion on chip :lol: .
Paranoia Dragon likes to talk about games he would've loved to see ported to the Turbo, and I agree with a lotta his choices, like Contra, Ninja Turtles (four player beat'em up!), Final Fight, etc... Pretty much I would've loved to see any decent run n' gun or beat'em up ports on the system.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 26, 2006, 12:11:49 AM
Well, its not a port, but really would have liked to see Aim for the Top!: Gunbuster volume 3 come out. It really sucks it got cancelled leaving episodes 5, and 6 unrepresented in game form.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 26, 2006, 07:05:14 AM
Back in the day, I thought that Final Fantasy would be perfect for PCE CD, since they could add more depth to the story and include voices and CD music, let alone cinemas. Especially when FFVI used so much more original art than the previous SFC games.
I also held out hope for Super Street Fighter II Turbo/X done properly(scrolling bg's) on Arcade CD.
When Dracula X came out, I hoped for a branching Contra game with as much variety in graphics, animation and sfx. It'd be worth it just for a similar CD remix soundtrack.
I still haven't played Monster World IV, which looks like fun and looks like it has the best graphics on Megadrive. A PCE version would've more or less completed the series on a single console, if you count New Adv Island as a version of Wonderboy.
A remake of Phantasy Star would've been cool on CD, or even a slightly upgraded port to HuCard.
I once had a dream where I was playing my newly imported CD2 Mega/Rock Man game. It still looks better in my mind than the way they went with MMX and the 16-bit+ MM's.
Final Fight on PCE CD is a given, since it could've had the color of the SFC version with the detail of the Mega-CD version and it would'nt have needed scrolling bg's in the few places the arcade had them(but they could've still been done).
The game I most wish was on PCE and I plan to port someday if I can ever learn the skills to do it, is Black Tiger. It's the best arcade game of all time. It looks great, but a relatively perfect port would be no problem.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: guyjin on September 26, 2006, 01:02:54 PM
One of my favorite sleeper hits for the NES, The Guardian Legend, would have been awesome on the Turbo; less (or no!) slowdown, bigger color pallete... would've been gorgeous.
Another NES game that would have been great on the turbo is River City Ransom (or whatever the Famicom version is called - Kunio something.) It's been said before, but I'll say it again: the Turbo needed more beat-em-ups.
Had Hudson/NEC bothered to do a real RPG on HuCard, they could have gotten Miracle Warriors from the SMS. Only 256k - I think it could easily have fit onto a card with gfx improvements.
moving on to 16bit ports, I think the PCE could have done Faceball 2000 as well or better than the SNES did, being a faster machine and all. FB2k, IIRC, has (one of?) the lowest color counts for a SNES game ever, and it isn't an FX game. Not that Faceball 2000 is a great game, but it would have proven that the PCE could do 3D.
And I realize it's an impossible dream, and some here will call me a snerd for saying it, but Secret of Mana on SCD(or ACD!) would have been awesome.
and speaking of the impossible, a Phantasy Star collection on SCD would have been wonderful - would have gotten some needed cash in Sega of Japan's pocket, and probably wouldn't have affected american genny sales at all. I often wonder why they didn't do this with the Sega ports they did get.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 26, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
Quote from: "guyjin"
Another NES game that would have been great on the turbo is River City Ransom (or whatever the Famicom version is called - Kunio something.) It's been said before, but I'll say it again: the Turbo needed more beat-em-ups.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: guyjin on September 26, 2006, 02:40:49 PM
:o how did I not know about this! I must find it!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: nodtveidt on September 26, 2006, 02:45:52 PM
Quote from: "guyjin"
I think the PCE could have done Faceball 2000 as well or better than the SNES did, being a faster machine and all. FB2k, IIRC, has (one of?) the lowest color counts for a SNES game ever, and it isn't an FX game. Not that Faceball 2000 is a great game, but it would have proven that the PCE could do 3D.
By use of simple raycasting, I believe the PCE could have handled this game just fine. I think FB2K uses raycasting anyways. Anyways, I might do a short little raycasting demo for the PCE to see if the machine could really handle this...the CPU has more than enough power but the planar video memory might make it difficult.
I would have liked to have seen a PROPER port of Golden Axe. The existing PCE port SUCKS HARDCORE! :evil:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 26, 2006, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: "guyjin"
:o how did I not know about this! I must find it!
good luck!! :D
see it sometimes in the shops but always costs about 15'000Yen (US$140). i believe on ebay you can't find it below this price, if even there is one on sale!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: guyjin on September 26, 2006, 03:30:30 PM
300 bucks. I won't even put down $150+ for Drac X, and I'm sure this is not as good a game. And the guy doesn't even show the disc itself, so I call shenanigans.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 26, 2006, 04:03:34 PM
Quote from: "guyjin"
Had Hudson/NEC bothered to do a real RPG on HuCard, they could have gotten Miracle Warriors from the SMS. Only 256k - I think it could easily have fit onto a card with gfx improvements.
I was going to mention MW, but I already listed quite a few games and Miracle Warriors is already 16-bit enough. The main thing that would've improved it on any system would've been a larger sized cart or CD. Then the battles and map could be full(er) screen and animation could be added. But again, not that it needs improvement.
Quote
how did I not know about this! I must find it!
Well, at least one of us had a dream PCE port come true. :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 26, 2006, 05:38:33 PM
oh just found an other missing port. Daiku no Gensan aka Hammerin' Harry!! why the heck Irem didn't port that fabulous and especially in japan so popular game? they brought all the other splendid titles from their repertoire such as mr. heli no daibouken, legend of hero tonma, ninja spirit/saigou no nindou, vigilante (and r-type by hudson) in very nice as well as close arcade ports but just forgot the poor gensan :cry:
unfortunately the GB, FC and SFC ports aren't arcade equal. in the PCE it could be! so there is no daiku no gensan exist outside the arcades!! so IREM, why not?? :cry:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 26, 2006, 05:40:11 PM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Quote
how did I not know about this! I must find it!
Well, at least one of us had a dream PCE port come true. :)
praise the lord :D
Title: the lost games!
Post by: vestcoat on September 26, 2006, 09:16:45 PM
Quote from: "guyjin"
O And I realize it's an impossible dream, and some here will call me a snerd for saying it, but Secret of Mana on SCD(or ACD!) would have been awesome.
Magicoal (SCD) is similar in style to Secret of Mana and even has two-player mode. It's also cheap.
Faceball is cheap but not spectacular. I think it's worth just because it's as close as you're going to get to a FPS on the PCE.
As far as that seller with Downtown Nekketsu Monogatari for $300, 16-bit/Mad Gear does charge some premium prices but if you're willing to shell out the bucks you can count on super fast shipping and a quality product. I picked up a few games from him but the rare games he has are always too expen$ive. he has uncommon games sometimes for reasonable prices.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: FM-77 on September 27, 2006, 04:34:58 AM
Secret of Mana would have been impossible to make on the PC Engine. Especially the map, that would've never worked - not even with the arcade card.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 27, 2006, 07:43:05 AM
Quote from: "Seldane"
Secret of Mana would have been impossible to make on the PC Engine. Especially the map, that would've never worked - not even with the arcade card.
I think that even the sequal to Secret Of Mana could've been done on on PC Engine or Megadrive. It wouldn't have been exactly the same on each system, but each one could have unique strengths.
As for the map, even if they didn't give it the Wonderswan Final Fantasy warping treatment(already seen in Vasteel), the ugly warping map was my least favorite part of the game and it would be great to have a detailed 2D map instead. But Chris Covell could probably whip up a reasonable facsimily himself.
I remember the first time I played The Legend Of Xanadu II, my first reaction was how similar it looked to Legend Of Mana PSX.
Pretty much anything can be ported to anything, it's not always going to be exactly the same, but that's how we wound up with some of our favorite versions of classic games.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Digi.k on September 27, 2006, 10:21:41 AM
theres a lot of capcom games I would have liked on the PCE same as Konami games.
a final fight game woulda been awesome.. as would have super street fighter II turbo would have been amazing or street fighter hyper fighting
Konami... some of those MSX games would probably have played like a dream on PCE..
oh and I would have loved the pce to have gotten its own bubble bobble.
hammerin harry I was gaggin for a conversion too as was i desperate for Dragon breed.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 27, 2006, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Pretty much anything can be ported to anything, it's not always going to be exactly the same, but that's how we wound up with some of our favorite versions of classic games.
Have you ever played Rampage on 2600, or maybe MSHvsSF on PS?
Yeah, anything can be ported to anything but I'll not play crap regardless of what system its on. A Seiken Densetsu game on PCE would have been...well, if it were an original title made just for PCE emphasizing the NEC side of things, that would have been nice, but honestly porting the SFC titles would have just been a pathetic joke. Worse than Strider for NES. I'd rather not go through that sort of embarrassment.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: guyjin on September 27, 2006, 11:59:41 AM
I liked NES strider. :(
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 27, 2006, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Pretty much anything can be ported to anything, it's not always going to be exactly the same, but that's how we wound up with some of our favorite versions of classic games.
Have you ever played Rampage on 2600, or maybe MSHvsSF on PS?
Yeah, anything can be ported to anything but I'll not play crap regardless of what system its on. A Seiken Densetsu game on PCE would have been...well, if it were an original title made just for PCE emphasizing the NEC side of things, that would have been nice, but honestly porting the SFC titles would have just been a pathetic joke. Worse than Strider for NES. I'd rather not go through that sort of embarrassment.
Donkey Kong Country turned out just fine on Gameboy. So did The Legend Of Zelda Link's Awakening. There are countless SNES games that SNES fanboys would've said would be impossible to port to Genesis, but they still turned out fine.
But if you beleive that the SFC/SNES is 24-bit and the PC Engine is 8-bit, then I can see why you'd think it would be a pathetic joke. But even if it were that kind of a difference(like say porting Neo Geo fighters to PCE), quality ports or new versions could still be made.
Strider NES is the perfect example. Capcom took a mediocre arcade game and turned it into something great. Same with Bionic Commando.
If you're judging what a system can do only by the games, I can see how you might get crazy ideas about what's possible on PC Engine. Especially if you haven't played many of the PCE titles with better graphics.
Cartridge games were made graphic intensive with lots of recycling because of the nature of the format. The CD format took off on PCE, so simple games usually got the HuCard treatment and CD games usually emphasized quantity of graphics and gameplay over cramming as much as possible into every scene. But lots of CD games still did produce graphics as good as or better than the SFC 'standard'. But it's usually in random doses throughout a big game.
Bad ports are bad ports. They aren't technical guidebooks on the limits of a particular console.
Have you ever played World Heroes 2, Fatal Fury Special or Art Of Fighting on PC Engine? Shouldn't these be harder to port than a SFC game?
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on September 27, 2006, 01:54:46 PM
PC Engine could have turned out Secret of Mana easily, there's absolutely nothing about that game that is even SLIGHTLY graphically impressive. The map is the only thing that might have been tricky, but it looks like total shit on the SNES anyway so I'm sure somebody could have coded a decent "mode 7" effect that would have looked equally as shitty. But I totally agree with Black_Tiger, a 2D map would have looked way better anyway. Go play Anearth Fantasy Stories if you want proof that the PCE could do any SNES RPG, it's as graphically impressive as any SNES RPG out there.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 27, 2006, 02:25:21 PM
the SFC #1 advantage was its color palette, therefore any games came in a very colorful look, especially all those RPGs. i beliveve this would/could be the only hurdle for a possible restriction in the graphicaly aspect of view.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Ninja Spirit on September 27, 2006, 02:28:30 PM
Stuff like this is what I think of very heavily when I'm cutting grass, or in the shower, etc.
To me it would've been great if I saw > A Rockman/Megaman title
> Gyruss! If there were to be a PC Engine port for Gyruss, Toccata and Fugue in D Minor would've sounded like this:
> Final Fantasy
> Out Zone by Toaplan
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 27, 2006, 02:52:54 PM
oh yes, you're so right..generally more toaplan titles i've liked to see :D
liked to see a snow. bros, wardner no mori, hishou zame or vimana as well. out zone would be just awesome! one of the best titles in the toaplan lineup.
but anyway, we got the only and one port of horror story / demon's world. very nice and unique game :D
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 27, 2006, 02:55:38 PM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Have you ever played World Heroes 2, Fatal Fury Special or Art Of Fighting on PC Engine? Shouldn't these be harder to port than a SFC game?
Not really. The Geo's big strength is its massively huge carts, in other words memory. That obstical was (somewhat) overcome by the arcade card. Yes, I've played all the Geo ports on PCE except World Heroes. They are nice. Fatal Fury Special especially, which is much better than the SNES, or Sega CD versions. I don't think that the PCE could do that well with KOF2003, or Prehistoric Isle 2 to save its life though.
The thing with SNES games by Square is that they often are extremely SNES-y. They are loaded with transparencies, scaling, and very high color counts. Seiken 2...maybe something passable could be done, but not Seiken 3. The SNES could barely do the stuff in Seiken 3, and the game was built totally around the strengths of the SNES. It would be like trying to do Sapphire on the SNES...oh man that would suck. No redbook audio, slowdown and flickering all over the place...what a nightmare that would be.
Yes, I have "crazy ideas" about what a system does because of the games I've played on it. WTF else am I supossed to go by? Some theoretical loyalist dream about what the machine can do? The PCE can't scale. It just can't. You can write code that scales, but that hits the CPU like a mofo. You can redraw every frame of the object you want to scale prior and load them as frames of animation (ie: Space Harrier) but that eats memory, and you try to do that with something like a world map...a lot of memory. Hundreds of full screen frames would be needed. The PCE can't do transparencies either. Just that every-other-field thing they do with shadows, and other stuff. It never looks like a transparency from a SNES, or a Saturn, or whatever. You can talk theories, and programming skill, and single screen tech demos made 10 years after the death of the system, but the shit never actually happened on the PCE during its life which leads me to believe that it was either impossible, or such a bitch that it wasn't worth it because there is no shortage of good programing in the PCE library.
I mean, its one thing if you have a five foot cock made of sand and you thing everything SNES sucks ass and you wonder what the point would be of Seiken on PCE, or even SNES in the first place, but there is such a thing as reality and reality says that you can't do Seiken 3 on a PC Engine and achieve anything that does the source material justice. You can't to Gran Turismo on the Watara Supervision, you can't do Sakura Wars 3 on the Vectrex, you can't do Viewtiful Joe on the MSX.
I mean...sure, you can make the game and sell it to people, but its really just pointless. New games that emphasize the good things about a system should be made, instead of trying to shoehorn an iMax film onto a cel phone screen.
Case in point: Zelda for GB. It was a new game made just for GB, and its actually my 2nd favorite Zelda game. Its really, IMO, quite a bit better than Link to the Past and never would have been the case if it were just a crap port of Link to the Past.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 27, 2006, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
Go play Anearth Fantasy Stories if you want proof that the PCE could do any SNES RPG, it's as graphically impressive as any SNES RPG out there.
That good eh? I've never played it. Is it expensive? Or more importantly, does it actually look as good as Tales of Phantasia, or DQVI? Those are pretty friggn slick, IMO.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 27, 2006, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
It would be like trying to do Sapphire on the SNES...oh man that would suck. No redbook audio, slowdown and flickering all over the place...what a nightmare that would be.
on the other hand, if you regarding to rendering ranger you might imagine how the SFC could manage a lot of huge as well as nice animated prerendered sprites in a high color palette. this game is just amazing in matter of any technical aspects. imo still the figurehead to show the "possible" capacity of the under clocked SFC :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 27, 2006, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: "Tatsujin"
on the other hand, if you regarding to rendering ranger you might imagine how the SFC could manage a lot of huge as well as nice animated prerendered sprites in a high color palette. this game is just amazing in matter of any technical aspects. imo still the figurehead to show the "possible" capacity of the under clocked SFC :)
I don't know man. I don't think the SNES could even handle Super Star Solider. I love the SNES to death but it sucked at shooters. The most technically impressive shooter on SNES, IMO, is Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie. I'm not sure why that one turned out so very very very great. Probably because it was original to the system, and not some crap port. The same can be said for Axelay, which is also extremely nice.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 27, 2006, 04:04:53 PM
Thought it would be fun to throw in a screenshot of Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 coverted to PCE palette in this thread:
That's just a simple program that converted the images. You can make them look even nicer by editing them yourself. Saying the PCE can't do Secret of Mana is like saying it can't handle Ranger-X :D .
Title: the lost games!
Post by: grahf on September 27, 2006, 04:20:31 PM
I wish there would have been a few more Street Fighter II sized hucards. Not physical size mind you, just memory wise. Im a really big hucard fan. I kinda wish that fake Dracula X hucard were real. The cd music is phenominal in that game, but im sure Konami would have done the chiptunes justice. Just look what they did with Castlevania 1-3 on NES.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 27, 2006, 09:43:39 PM
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
Quote from: "Tatsujin"
on the other hand, if you regarding to rendering ranger you might imagine how the SFC could manage a lot of huge as well as nice animated prerendered sprites in a high color palette. this game is just amazing in matter of any technical aspects. imo still the figurehead to show the "possible" capacity of the under clocked SFC :)
I don't know man. I don't think the SNES could even handle Super Star Solider. I love the SNES to death but it sucked at shooters. The most technically impressive shooter on SNES, IMO, is Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie. I'm not sure why that one turned out so very very very great. Probably because it was original to the system, and not some crap port. The same can be said for Axelay, which is also extremely nice.
only one question. ever played super aleste and/or rendering rangers?
i know the SFC sucks at its technical side. but if the right guys are behind the programms, also in the SFC almost impossible things came possible!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 27, 2006, 10:17:44 PM
Personally, slowdown in games never bothers me much so I don't have a problem with SNES hardware myself. However I do find slowdown annoying when it is as bad as the bubble level in Gradius III, but I hardly see SNES games slowdown that much. If you ask me, colors are a pretty important part of nice graphics.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 28, 2006, 12:19:31 AM
Quote from: "Keranu"
Thought it would be fun to throw in a screenshot of Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 coverted to PCE palette in this thread:
Um...that really doesn't mean jack. Its a static image.
Saying the PCE can't do Secret of Mana is like saying the Playstation can't do Xmen versus Street Fighter. Its true. It can't do Xmen versus Street Fighter. Someone can throw together a pile of crap and call is Xmen versus Street Fighter, but really its just a pile of crap.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 28, 2006, 12:21:27 AM
Quote from: "Tatsujin"
only one question. ever played super aleste and/or rendering rangers?
i know the SFC sucks at its technical side. but if the right guys are behind the programms, also in the SFC almost impossible things came possible!
Actually, I've never even heard of Rendering Rangers! :)
Seriously though, the SNES is possibly my favorite game machine ever. You don't need to win me over. It just sucks at shooters. I'm fine with that.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: FM-77 on September 28, 2006, 01:06:21 AM
Maybe Secret of Mana could be ported to PCE, but it would be one hell of a bad port - the map would have to be removed, tons of sprites would have to be removed (and they would have to be MUCH smaller), no transparency, etc etc etc.
Seiken Densetsu 3 would be completely impossible to make on the PC Engine. It would be a completely different game. A very bad game.
Just converting the colors has nothing to do with it - the hardware wouldn't be able to handle it. Have you played through SD3? If not - do it. There's TONS of stuff in that game that the PC Engine couldn't pull off regardless of what techniques were used.
Oh yes. Static images. That proves EVERYTHING! Seiken densetsu can DEFINITELY be ported to PCE, and they should have - because the PCE game would've been better (because, you know, it would be on the PCE)!!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 28, 2006, 11:37:10 AM
I wasn't really trying to debate, I just thought it would be fun to throw in those screenshots for people to view. I personally think PCE could handle Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu 3, but technically it would have to be proven.
Colors are pretty important, so the screenshots you and I posted are a great way of showing how the colors would've came out, so that's one thing down and it looks like it did a fairly decent job.
The map indeed would probably be the hardest thing to port. Whether or not it would be possible to port, I don't know. A programmer would know better than me on that. Chris Covell's Axelay demo looked great and is a bit similar to the Secret of Mana map, so it's a tough call in my opinion.
Transparency can be faked in many ways, so it depends on how well the developer and immitate it.
I don't know why tons of sprites would have to be removed and I really don't see why they would have to be much smaller :? ? Especially if it's a Super CD or Arcade CD game, it would have plenty of RAM for all of that. The sprites in the game are pretty average-to-small for the most part anyways, even the bosses are usually nothing huge.
I haven't played through SD3, so please fill us in on what would be impossible from it to port on PCE or Genesis for that matter. I've only played a little bit of the game and thought the graphics looked great, but that was mainly because of the artwork and coloring.
By the way, that Mario 64 converted screenshot looks great! (seriously)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: FM-77 on September 28, 2006, 11:41:53 AM
Quote from: "Keranu"
By the way, that Mario 64 converted screenshot looks great! (seriously)
Actually that's not a converted screenshot at all. That is a screenshot of Mario 64 running on an actual PC Engine. :wink:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 28, 2006, 11:47:35 AM
Sweetness!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 28, 2006, 01:31:59 PM
Quote from: "Keranu"
Chris Covell's Axelay demo..
can be found where? :D
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 28, 2006, 02:27:49 PM
Rendering Ranger R2 is about as crappy as its title suggests. I haven't played SD3. I take it there are some buku effects in this game?
PCE version SOM would have some water'd down or missing effects, but SGX on the other hand :D As for the 3D part, you could always do the Axelay effect - sans rotation though. SOM was a good game, but not really impressive but SNES standards. Of all the things SNES has a poor sprite per scanline limit in comparison to its other specs, hence why they use a BG layer for medium/large bosses. Not a bad thing in substitution, just a fact. SGX wouldn't have a problem doing the same( Genesis does it too), but this wouldn't translate well for the PCE as it'd have to use sprites in place of.
Btw, Axelay doesn't use scaling for the those 3D levels as some of you know.
Keranu, I think a lot of SNES (and GEO) game graphics convert fairly well to the PCE format is because it's still limited to 15(16) colors per tile and the fact that the BG is limited to 8 15 color palette helps. Ofcourse transparency aside.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 28, 2006, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
Rendering Ranger R2 is about as crappy as its title suggests.
how can you say that? the game was programmed from a alomst oneman-team, the programming-legend from germany manfred trenz (responsible for almost all the Turricans on Amiga C64 etc). in the post above i didn't talk about the quality of the game generally (imo i like it a lot, since it is a very special and nice made game). but the technical execution is somehow the best i've ever seen on the SFC (next close one could may be super aleste). the only noticeable stutters are in one of the last stages, where a really huge squadron of enemies attacks you from both side. the screen is full of huge sprites and explosions! in this engagement, you even can't see the BG anymore! further all the prerender animation are fantastic made and even equal to some of the huge animations in sapphire. since this all is stored on a simple SFC-card, i think it is an unique product, especially in matter of technical aspects.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 28, 2006, 03:30:19 PM
I've been meaning to play Rendering Ranger R2, I've heard it's good.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 28, 2006, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: "Tatsujin"
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
Rendering Ranger R2 is about as crappy as its title suggests.
how can you say that? the game was programmed from a alomst oneman-team, the programming-legend from germany manfred trenz (responsible for almost all the Turricans on Amiga C64 etc). in the post above i didn't talk about the quality of the game generally (imo i like it a lot, since it is a very special and nice made game). but the technical execution is somehow the best i've ever seen on the SFC (next close one could may be super aleste). the only noticeable stutters are in one of the last stages, where a really huge squadron of enemies attacks you from both side. the screen is full of huge sprites and explosions! in this engagement, you even can't see the BG anymore! further all the prerender animation are fantastic made and even equal to some of the huge animations in sapphire. since this all is stored on a simple SFC-card, i think it is an unique product, especially in matter of technical aspects.
RR has the early/mid 90's Euro game design/feel that just looks generic to me. As far as technical, what's so special about it? Those big (and little) enemy sprites are almost all stills, the futher background layers are just seriously repeated tiles. While first boss is nice, it's nothing special and it is a background layer not a sprite. The explosions are nicely animated, but nothing speical either. The first level design and enemy layout is pretty plain - nothing exciting and quite repetitive. Overall its decent - especially if you like that look/style, but it's nothing to write home about. Nothing in the game screams technical achievement. I guess you have to see it from a console coders point of view - based on the ins and outs and bottle necks of the SNES.
Besides, prerender graphics like those are a cop-out for hand drawn graphics - IMO. There are plenty of impressive SNES games, just not that one.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on September 28, 2006, 04:59:52 PM
yes, i know i can't see all the details in matter of technical issues as may be you do! but in the end the action it is what counts, and the action in RR comes just superior on to the screen. as i said, the style of the game is not to discuss in here, it's leave to everyone's own taste! i cleared it several times as well as alomst all the other jump'n'shot genres on the SFC, and i couldn't find an other title which comes close to the action of RR. of course a contra spirits looks much nicer and more arcadey, also it is more elaborated, but couldn't imo reach the same level in matter of action.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 28, 2006, 05:46:20 PM
Don't get me wrong, technically it's a solid game :wink: :D I'll play it some more to see the other levels.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: vestcoat on September 28, 2006, 06:54:03 PM
Hey Keranu, I don't know anything about technical system specs, but did those comparison shots with Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 abide by the maximum number of colors that the PCE can display? I know that the number of colors allowed on screen is fewer than the colors available in the palette.
BTW, can you do a shot of what a game would look like on the SMS? :wink:
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
I mean, its one thing if you have a five foot cock made of sand and you thing everything SNES sucks ass and you wonder what the point would be of...
This is a damn funny post! :lol:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 28, 2006, 07:39:53 PM
Quote from: "vestcoat"
Hey Keranu, I don't know anything about technical system specs, but did those comparison shots with Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 abide by the maximum number of colors that the PCE can display? I know that the number of colors allowed on screen is fewer than the colors available in the palette.
Yes, that screenshot is perfectly good for PCE standards as far as color use. I have this program that Fragmare from MindRec sent me that converts .bmps to PCE palette format (512 colors). The problem is though that it doesn't divide half the colors for the tiles and half for the sprites, so if you used a image tha thad more than 512 colors, then it wouldn't exactly look like that on the PCE palette. If I recall though, that Secret of Mana screenshot had about 120 colors (which is ok to use since that doesn't exceed 256) and the converted image uses over 70.
Quote from: "vestjacket"
BTW, can you do a shot of what a game would look like on the SMS? :wink:
Nah, sorry. I don't have a program or know of anyway to filter that in a program. If anyone has a method of doing that, let me know because I would be interested :) .
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 29, 2006, 08:08:15 PM
Quote from: "Seldane"
Maybe Secret of Mana could be ported to PCE, but it would be one hell of a bad port - the map would have to be removed, tons of sprites would have to be removed (and they would have to be MUCH smaller), no transparency, etc etc etc.
Why would any sprites have to be removed or be smaller? Although I think that a warping map could be pulled off(like Chris Covell's Axelay demo), the world maps in FFIV - FFVI look better before they warp.
The PC Engine has lots of games with nice transparency effects. It doesn't matter how the effect is technically done, only the end result. Like when people say that the PC Engine can't due "true" or "real" parallax. Unless you're told that the parallax you're looking at isn't technically being rendered in the technique that counts as "true", you can't tell when the end result is exactly the same.
Quote from: "Seldane"
Just converting the colors has nothing to do with it - the hardware wouldn't be able to handle it. Have you played through SD3? If not - do it. There's TONS of stuff in that game that the PC Engine couldn't pull off regardless of what techniques were used.
There are a lot of SFC games, like SD3, which most people would've said that the SFC couldn't handle until they were made.
Quote
Oh yes. Static images. That proves EVERYTHING! Seiken densetsu can DEFINITELY be ported to PCE, and they should have - because the PCE game would've been better (because, you know, it would be on the PCE)!!
But this is your argument, that the PCE can't handle a SFC port because, you know, it's the SFC.
Quote from: "vestcoat"
BTW, can you do a shot of what a game would look like on the SMS? :wink:
Here you go-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com//img/sd3.gif)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 29, 2006, 09:05:52 PM
Haha, great screenshot :D .
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 30, 2006, 03:23:57 AM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
The PC Engine has lots of games with nice transparency effects. It doesn't matter how the effect is technically done,
No, it does matter because if its done the only way I've ever seen it done on PCE it looks like flickering crap. SFC transparencies are %100 flicker free if done via hardware acceleration and they are like butter. You could do the Super Metroid super bomb effect on the PCE...it would just look like crapola.
Maybe I'm forgetting some PCE techinque for transparencies that looks better than what I'm used to, but I'm pretty sure its always the same sort of thing they used on Neo Geo and Mega Drive. Its passable, but you wouldn't want to use it large scale because the flickering would be near vomit inducing.
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
There are a lot of SFC games, like SD3, which most people would've said that the SFC couldn't handle until they were made.
That may be true, but SD3 isn't one of those games, IMO. SD3 is the untimate realazation of the SFC's abilities. There is nothing there that technicall was thought to be impossible, there is just a whole ton of the possible stuff. Maybe more than any cart probably.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 30, 2006, 06:20:28 AM
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
No, it does matter because if its done the only way I've ever seen it done on PCE it looks like flickering crap. SFC transparencies are %100 flicker free if done via hardware acceleration and they are like butter.
Maybe I'm forgetting some PCE techinque for transparencies that looks better than what I'm used to, but I'm pretty sure its always the same sort of thing they used on Neo Geo and Mega Drive. Its passable, but you wouldn't want to use it large scale because the flickering would be near vomit inducing.
Vasteel's transparencies, which I assume must be flickered, looked pretty much perfect from my memory. I believe that they even had a couple layers of transparent backgrounds scrolling independantly over a third solid outer space themed bg.
Then there's one or two, where a transparent image of one background peels off of the other and then warps all over the place. It's kind of like doing a warping map like Secret Of Mana, but transparent at the same time.
An easy one to see is one of the last bosses in The Legend Of Xandu II(just use the Premium or Debug tricks, he's in Battle Mode door #7). The animated waterfalls use a flickering effect that actually isn't that well done(the actual bosses also uses even poorer flickered effects). But the whole thing still looks amazing. If a version or port of SD3 wound up looking like that, it'd be fine by me. All the boss fights in LOXII are a good indication of how a port of SD3 could look as good on PCE.
http://superpcenginegrafx.com/img/sotb2.gif
http://superpcenginegrafx.com/xan.mpg
But a game doesn't become garbage just because it gets a port optimized for the new console, instead of a super straight port. Because the original was taylor made for the original hardware, the developer would've had to sacrifice a lot of ideas and do certain aesthetics in a way different from their original vision.
Like say, if in SD3 they original wanted to do most of the effects a different way, but had to change them to make them work on SFC. Does this make the SFC version garbage, since it's not faithful to the original design?
On new hardware, they can put some lost things back and use new different aesthetics. I'd rather have a unique port than a carbon copy. Since there's no such thing as a perfect game(except for our personal biases), then change can be a good thing.
Quote
Black_Tiger wrote: There are a lot of SFC games, like SD3, which most people would've said that the SFC couldn't handle until they were made.
That may be true, but SD3 isn't one of those games, IMO. SD3 is the untimate realazation of the SFC's abilities. There is nothing there that technicall was thought to be impossible, there is just a whole ton of the possible stuff. Maybe more than any cart probably.
This is what I mean, the average expert would've said that SD3 or Tales Of Phantasia would have had to be on CD-ROM before they became a reality.
Quote
You could do the Super Metroid super bomb effect on the PCE...it would just look like crapola.
This is also the kind of thing I'm talking about. Instead of having to use a scaling circle due to cart limitations, they could use an amazing animation.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on September 30, 2006, 08:44:39 AM
Black Tiger makes some great points. The SNES game wasn't necessarily the original vision in the first place... it could have been a compromise all along. It's kind of like the original Lunar on Sega CD. It wasn't their original vision. A port to the SNES/whatever might have ended up more faithful than the original game.
That being said, when Lunar was put on the PSX (supposedly in "truer" form), it was worse, which proves that sticking to the original vision or the original version doesn't always make for a good game.
Quote
It never looks like a transparency from a SNES, or a Saturn, or whatever.
Saturn and transparencies don't mix.
Quote
You can talk theories, and programming skill, and single screen tech demos made 10 years after the death of the system, but the shit never actually happened on the PCE during its life which leads me to believe that it was either impossible, or such a bitch that it wasn't worth it because there is no shortage of good programing in the PCE library.
You make a good point here, and it's one that I agree with. SD3 was never ported to the PCE, and no one ever really asked for SD3 to come out on the PCE anyway, because there were already tons of other great programs. All the theories about "how" to do it (or not do it) don't matter, because all the talk in the world can't change the past.
Quote
there is such a thing as reality and reality says that you can't do Seiken 3 on a PC Engine and achieve anything that does the source material justice.
...but then you turn around and start talking about it again.
There are plenty of games that do things the PCE wasn't supposed to be able to do (Sapphire, Metamor Jupiter, etc). In one breath you say it's pointless to discuss this, but in the next breath you bring the topic back and try to "win".
You seriously think the PCE couldn't do the original source justice? That's a huge claim to make -- since "do justice" doesn't even imply "perfect". However, the point remains... it WASN'T done and it's not going to BE done so, as you said, it's silly talk. It's easy to beat your chest when no one is going to ever prove you wrong.
Personally, I believe it could be ported in near-perfect (or superior) form. It's not like we're talking about porting something intense like Ranger-X. We're just talking about the Seiken Densetsu games!
Quote
You can't to Gran Turismo on the Watara Supervision, you can't do Sakura Wars 3 on the Vectrex, you can't do Viewtiful Joe on the MSX.
Silly comparisons. The generation gap between the systems in your "examples" are all huge compared to the difference between PC Engine and SNES.
And besides, the PCE is the better system of the two, so your analogy doesn't even make sense.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on September 30, 2006, 09:12:08 AM
Besides, whats so special about Secret of Mana 3? I played it, it looked like every other generic super nes RPG. Plus it's slow as shit, maybe the PCE could actually speed it up a little since the SNES is a crippled slug with pretty transperancies. Any system that can do Sapphire could have easily done SOM3 since Sapphire is WAY beyond what the shit SNES was capable of.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 30, 2006, 11:21:14 AM
Black_Tiger:
There is another way to transparency effect with much less noticable flicker. It involves switching between two checker board patterns every 1/60 sec - each checker board is 180 phase of the other - resulting in much less flicker. There's also Hsync transparency effects doable on the PCE - see LOT and ShaperShifter for example.
Quote from: "SignOfZeta "
You could do the Super Metroid super bomb effect on the PCE...it would just look like crapola.
You could with the Super Grafx - see here (http://forum.pcedev.mednafen.com/index.php?t=msg&th=10&start=0&)
The SOM games on SNES seem to update/animate at 30fps instead of 60fps. I assume this might be because of the limited bandwidth the SNES has to its VRAM compared to other systems - doing dynamic tilemap updates and such. This is what Sega's advertising was refering to when had those commercials stating "blast processing". The marketing team trying to coin a term for non-techies.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 30, 2006, 12:19:19 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
Besides, whats so special about Secret of Mana 3? I played it, it looked like every other generic super nes RPG. Plus it's slow as shit, maybe the PCE could actually speed it up a little since the SNES is a crippled slug with pretty transperancies. Any system that can do Sapphire could have easily done SOM3 since Sapphire is WAY beyond what the shit SNES was capable of.
Your raging hatred for SFC/SNES makes you a pretty worthless judge or witness in this discussion. People who actually appreciate both machines are more credible critics/witnesses/theoreticians/whatever.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 30, 2006, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: "Bonknuts"
Black_Tiger:
There is another way to transparency effect with much less noticable flicker. It involves switching between two checker board patterns every 1/60 sec - each checker board is 180 phase of the other - resulting in much less flicker. There's also Hsync transparency effects doable on the PCE - see LOT and ShaperShifter for example.
Quote from: "SignOfZeta "
You could do the Super Metroid super bomb effect on the PCE...it would just look like crapola.
You could with the Super Grafx - see here (http://forum.pcedev.mednafen.com/index.php?t=msg&th=10&start=0&)
The SOM games on SNES seem to update/animate at 30fps instead of 60fps. I assume this might be because of the limited bandwidth the SNES has to its VRAM compared to other systems - doing dynamic tilemap updates and such. This is what Sega's advertising was refering to when had those commercials stating "blast processing". The marketing team trying to coin a term for non-techies.
Well the screen shots look pretty cool, but since I'm on a Mac, and I don't think anyone has written a PCE emu that can do SGX on OSX, I'll have to take your word for it. I guess this makes the SGX even more of a huge disappointment in NEC's history since it could have done stuff like this.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 30, 2006, 12:25:19 PM
Quote
Quote
You can talk theories, and programming skill, and single screen tech demos made 10 years after the death of the system, but the shit never actually happened on the PCE during its life which leads me to believe that it was either impossible, or such a bitch that it wasn't worth it because there is no shortage of good programing in the PCE library.
You make a good point here, and it's one that I agree with. SD3 was never ported to the PCE, and no one ever really asked for SD3 to come out on the PCE anyway, because there were already tons of other great programs. All the theories about "how" to do it (or not do it) don't matter, because all the talk in the world can't change the past.
Although I think that if systems weren't retired to make way for new ones, that development for those systems would continue to progress to new levels we'd have never believed(look at euro & brazil SMS, the short life span of the Arcade Card, or even where the Neo Geo got to)...
-it's fine and well to say that with most major consoles, they were more or less fully utilized during their time. But the PC Engine is one of the exceptions where, maybe cuz its a bitch to program for or because of the HuCard/CD formats...
-it wasn't really pushed to very much of it's potential very often. There's more of a wide range in technical displays on PCE than on MD or SFC. Or in other words, for every Drac X and Lords', there are more technically simple (not necessarily bad)games than the other guys.
After the CD format took off, most games were made with quantity over intense quality. PCE fans didn't stop buying games that lacked parallax or 'Mode 7' when they had CD music, voice and cinemas in it's place. It sort of became it's own market like the N64 & amecube.
The Genesis however, was in direct competition with the SNES, so even though it lacked the nifty built-in effects that the SNES had, anyone publishing a top tier game for it had to really push the system to make some visually intensive games. There wasn't any reason to do this on PCE(other than pride).
More important than being able to push hardware though, is managing artwork/graphics. Square may have been great at getting nifty effects out of the SFC, but their games looked best because of how they used art. The main difference between Final Fantasy IV and SD3 or Dragon Quest V and VI is how they made the sprites and tiles. The best looking Genesis games use smart use of color to look like they're displaying double the system's limit.
If Square had the incentive to make a few killer PCE games, but wound up putting out a bunch of duds, then it would be a clearer sign that it was a matter of impossibility. But look at what Falcom and Quest did with the single PCE games they developed.
The PC Engine CD would be perfect for a later Square style game. Even if they used all static bg's and only nicely animated effects. As long as the quality artwork was there. Afterall, most of the crazy effects used for spells and such in SFC carts was a way to save on memory.
When Secret Of Mana was brought up as a dream 'lost game', I wasn't hoping for a straight port anyway. I think a PCE specific one would look at least as good overall. But if the SOM/SD games really are great games and not just eye candy, then keeping the gameplay intact should be the only concern with a port turning out, right?
But on a technical level, when someone says, "if it could be done it would've been", I say look at what a lowly homebrewer like Chris Covell has managed on his own in such a short period of time. And not just his PCE demos.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 30, 2006, 01:29:15 PM
Yeah, really wish new game systems only came out about half as often as they actually do. The things are left in the dust before they are even made use of. I mean, seriously, who the hell needs an Xbox 360? Do XBox games look like shit and I just can't see it?
Well, yeah, XBox games do look pretty bad most of the time, but that's an art issue, and not a power issue. I don't see why I'd need anything that looks better than Outrun, or Orta as long as I live. I'm still being blown away by Dreamcast games so I must be an old man or something.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Bonknuts on September 30, 2006, 01:39:15 PM
You'll find the Mednafen PPC binary and the front end launcher - NekoLauncher. Mednafen emulates the SGX among other things.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 30, 2006, 01:47:24 PM
Great points by Emerald and Tiger.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on September 30, 2006, 02:54:19 PM
No, my grasp on reality makes me a judge. Secret of mana looks like shit. SOM3 looks ok but generic. Those are the cold hard facts.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: grahf on September 30, 2006, 03:54:16 PM
No, those are opinions. I happen to love Secret of Mana. Its not the nices game, but to say it looks like shit is absurd. Video games are artwork, and as such not everyone will like the way a certain one looks.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: nodtveidt on September 30, 2006, 04:03:54 PM
I agree with grahf, especially knowing GUTS' track record. :lol:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 30, 2006, 04:03:58 PM
Secret of Mana looks great, GUTS is part of a minority when it comes to that opinion.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 30, 2006, 04:47:14 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
No, my grasp on reality makes me a judge. Secret of mana looks like shit. SOM3 looks ok but generic. Those are the cold hard facts.
Not only are those things that cannot be proven, and therefore cannot be considered facts, but rather opinons, they are also very unpopular facts.
I know of a lot of SNES/SFC fans and all of them would say that SD3 is a top 5 game graphics-wise on the SFC. Of course since you think the SFC is piece of gimmicky shit with nothing to offer that means nothing to you. But really that just reenforces my point. You are no expert on the SFC subject. Similarly I couldn't even begin to tell you what the best Virtual Boy game is. I have no clue.
You are right when you say SD3 is slow. The gameplay in general could have been better. Saying its generic-looking is just kind of crazy. Its gorgeous.
BTW, just to clarify all this SD on PCE business, the game I'm saying is unportable to PCE in a decent manor is SD3. SD2 is just nice. Its not even close to as wonderful looking as SD3. Even so, some concessions would need to be made even with SD2 leaving a PCE port always the inferior joke in the same way we look at LoT for Sega CD, only much worse. More like the PS version of KOF98.
And to clarify what someone said about how transparencies and the Saturn "don't mix". I'm not sure what he was getting at, but the Saturn can certainly do transparencies, via hardware. Even ghetto level programers like Winky Soft have used it (Super Robot Wars F). It doesn't extent to polygons, and I'm not sure about sprites, but certainly it can be done with BG layers.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on September 30, 2006, 05:04:07 PM
You'll find the Mednafen PPC binary and the front end launcher - NekoLauncher. Mednafen emulates the SGX among other things.
Wow. That looks friggn awesome!
But, as I predicted, it doesn't run for me with any of my PCE CDs, PCE ROM images, or GBA ROM images. It just produces an error that says, "Please refer to 'Status Information' for details", and I have no idea how to check whatever that is.
When it comes to these sorts of programs I've learned to just walk away and save the effort that would be wasted trying and failing to ever get them to work. Fink taught me that.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 30, 2006, 05:15:28 PM
Just to help GUTS out even though I don't necessarily agree with him:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on September 30, 2006, 05:17:37 PM
The funny thing is, the crap looks better than the game behind it.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on September 30, 2006, 05:18:13 PM
But just look at that transparency!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: guyjin on September 30, 2006, 08:45:03 PM
I know this digression from the topic is partly my fault, but:
:o THE TOPIC IS WHAT GAMES YOU WISH WERE PORTED, NOT WETHER SUCH PORTS ARE POSSIBLE. :evil:
thank you.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: esteban on October 01, 2006, 04:20:10 AM
Quote from: "guyjin"
I know this digression from the topic is partly my fault, but:
:o THE TOPIC IS WHAT GAMES YOU WISH WERE PORTED, NOT WETHER SUCH PORTS ARE POSSIBLE. :evil:
thank you.
hahahahhhahaha. I had been swept away by the recent discussions, so much so that even I forgot what the actual topic was! :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: akamichi on October 01, 2006, 05:02:45 AM
i'd have like to have seen: Gradius 3 Ajax SF2' Turbo KOF94 Samurai Spirits Original Kunio game (aka Renegade) Bubble Bobble Captain Commando (and any of the other simliar capcom side scrollers) Kung Fu Master Sky Shark The other 19XX series shooters.
That's pretty much all I can think of right now. I pretty much wanted every game I played in the arcade back in the day released on PCE. :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 01, 2006, 07:30:30 AM
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
Yeah, really wish new game systems only came out about half as often as they actually do. The things are left in the dust before they are even made use of. I mean, seriously, who the hell needs an Xbox 360? Do XBox games look like shit and I just can't see it?
Well, yeah, XBox games do look pretty bad most of the time, but that's an art issue, and not a power issue. I don't see why I'd need anything that looks better than Outrun, or Orta as long as I live. I'm still being blown away by Dreamcast games so I must be an old man or something.
Ever since the end of the 32-bit era approached, I've been hoping each time that the generation would bring games with solid 60fps and no draw-in/pop-up, where 3D aspirations would no longer hamper gameplay.
But once again, developers are still trying to push the limits and the whole PS3 vs 360 will keep it that way for this generation and I now fear that it may be 20 years until we finally get games with consistantly solid graphics and therefore gameplay.
Quote from: "akamichi"
i'd have like to have seen: Gradius 3 Ajax SF2' Turbo KOF94 Samurai Spirits Original Kunio game (aka Renegade) Bubble Bobble Captain Commando (and any of the other simliar capcom side scrollers) Kung Fu Master Sky Shark The other 19XX series shooters.
That's pretty much all I can think of right now. I pretty much wanted every game I played in the arcade back in the day released on PCE. :)
You know what would've been cool? An original Gradius game for PCE with branching paths, kinda like Drac X and Darius. I know I already mentioned this with Contra, but once again, it just seems to make a lot of sense.
Although I don't seem to ever play beat-em-ups like Capt Commando on anything other than real arcade cabinets, it would be nice to have some more for PC Engine. I have yet to give Double Dragon, Crest Of The Wolf and Downtown Neketsu(or whatever, -RRS) a serious try though. I don't know why COTW/Riot City gets such mediocre reviews, it looks like a decent Final Fight game to me, with huge sprites.
Again, Bubble Bobble would be perfectly suited to PCE and would completely the original trilogy. I expect at least a straight port to be developed by a homebrewer in the future and is the type of game that I once thought would be the perfect "inspiration" for an original PCE homebrew title. If we're talking dream games though, the Neo Geo Bubble Bobble games would turn out great on Arcade CD, especially if they load each level seperately.
I'd welcome pretty much any more Neo Geo ports, especially Magician Lord and Metal Slug and SS RPG.
Quote from: "stevek666"
Quote from: "guyjin"
I know this digression from the topic is partly my fault, but:
:o THE TOPIC IS WHAT GAMES YOU WISH WERE PORTED, NOT WETHER SUCH PORTS ARE POSSIBLE. :evil:
thank you.
hahahahhhahaha. I had been swept away by the recent discussions, so much so that even I forgot what the actual topic was! :)
I blame Seldane(again).
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on October 01, 2006, 07:31:40 AM
I don't hate the snes, in fact Chrono Trigger and FFVI are 2 of my favorite games of all time. I just think the graphics are way over rated by people easily impressed by shit, over-abused effects like mode 7. Besides, I've played just as many SNES/SFAM as any of you guys that are sloppy in love with it, so that makes me just as qualified to judge snes graphics as anyone.
And Secret of Mana does look like shit. The sprite limit is what, 3 f*cking enemies on screen? Pathetic. Wow it has pretty colors! Let's all ignore the fact that the game can't move more than 3 enemy sprites around at once, and even that slows everything down! Plus the animation is shitty, the collision detection is highly suspect at best, and the treasure chest opening animation is so f*cking AWFUL the sprite doesn't even touch the chest 90% of the time. That game is just amatuer looking, half finished shit.
Part 3 looks like every other late era SNES RPG, which is nice but generic. It's a decent game, but nothing incredible to look at by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: nodtveidt on October 01, 2006, 10:29:41 AM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
I don't know why COTW/Riot City gets such mediocre reviews, it looks like a decent Final Fight game to me, with huge sprites.
COTW/Riot Zone probably gets a lot of mediocre reviews because it's a rather mediocre game. It's fun but mediocre. Attack options are extremely limited, there's absolutely no weapons to pick up, and virtually all enemies can be defeated with a jump kick, leaving very little room for real strategy. It's good for some kill-or-be-killed fun from time to time but it's hard to take serious, as its lack of gameplay gets old pretty quickly. Final Fight was MUCH more entertaining. Even Streets Of Rage, with its much smaller sprites, was more fun.
Now there would be a great PCE port...Streets Of Rage. :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: sunteam_paul on October 01, 2006, 11:01:53 AM
Crest of Wolf was a good showcase for how the Engine could do a scrolling beat em up with big sprites. It suffered from very rough and unfinished graphics, with none of the polish you expect from Husdon. Gameplay is very samey, like a lot of games of this type. It's good if you want to zone out and play something mindless, it just goes on a bit long.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: SignOfZeta on October 01, 2006, 11:26:40 AM
Quote from: "nodtveidt"
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
I don't know why COTW/Riot City gets such mediocre reviews, it looks like a decent Final Fight game to me, with huge sprites.
COTW/Riot Zone probably gets a lot of mediocre reviews because it's a rather mediocre game. It's fun but mediocre. Attack options are extremely limited, there's absolutely no weapons to pick up, and virtually all enemies can be defeated with a jump kick, leaving very little room for real strategy. It's good for some kill-or-be-killed fun from time to time but it's hard to take serious, as its lack of gameplay gets old pretty quickly. Final Fight was MUCH more entertaining.
The game pretty much sucks. I have the US version. Does anyone want to trade for it? Its boring and repetitive and just will...not...end...In other words its like Final Fight, but just slightly worse.
I really think Final Fight is just a bunch of boring crap. Compared to Technos brawlers Final Fight leaves you with almost nothing to do that you didn't see in the first 1 minute of play. Kunio owns Final Fight for free, in other words.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: runinruder on October 01, 2006, 11:50:32 AM
Quote
I don't know why COTW/Riot City gets such mediocre reviews, it looks like a decent Final Fight game to me, with huge sprites.
Well, when a game delivers a line like "WHEAR'S THAT WARRANT" during its opening moments, it's pretty much setting itself up to be ripped on.
But Riot Zone is fine as far as old-school brawling goes. It does become tedious after a while and the animation stinks, but the gameplay is a lot like Final Fight. I don't mind the lack of moves/weapons because I usually just mash buttons in these types of games anyway. I wish it were as gritty as Final Fight and contained as many memorable tunes and enemies, but contrary to what some reviews say, it holds its own as a 16-bit brawler and isn't nearly as bad as, say, Rival Turf or Captain America.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 01, 2006, 12:16:36 PM
I always thought Riot Zone looked great. The game was pretty mediocre, but fun at least.
Quote from: "GUTS"
And Secret of Mana does look like shit. The sprite limit is what, 3 f*cking enemies on screen? Pathetic.
I don't get it, why would you need a ton of sprites on screen to make a game look like it has good graphics? That would be a nice technical feature, but I think the casual gamer isn't going to care if it has a ton of sprites on screen or only a few.
Quote from: "GUTS"
Wow it has pretty colors! Let's all ignore the fact that the game can't move more than 3 enemy sprites around at once, and even that slows everything down!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty colors is something that's going to give the player an impression of good graphics. When the artist puts color to good use, people are going to think it looks nice.
Slowdown, yeah that's annoying but that doesn't effect the actual graphics. Hell you consider games like TFIV to look great, but that game suffers slowdown too. Or for my opinion, I think Twinkle Star Sprites looks great but it will have some mad slowdown at times. Does that change my opinion on the graphics? Absolutely not.
Quote from: "GUTS"
Plus the animation is shitty...
Finally a good point. Yes the animation is pretty average, but with artwork that most gamers seem to think is very good, the animation can be ignored.
Quote from: "GUTS the Barbarian"
the collision detection is highly suspect at best, and the treasure chest opening animation is so f*cking AWFUL the sprite doesn't even touch the chest 90% of the time.
Collision detection... what does this have to do with bad graphics again? :? And as far as treasure chest animation, OH MY GOD it doesn't have over 10 frames of animation and doesn't shine or anything when you open it!! Really though, how many games back then did you see that used more than two frames of animation for opening a chest? Even games like FFVI which people really thought had great graphics only used two frames of animation. What a big loss in the graphics department.
Quote from: "GUTS"
That game is just amatuer looking, half finished shit.
I guess the artwork just didn't tickle your fancy as it did with most people. I give you respect though for sticking out like that.
Quote from: "GUTS"
Part 3 looks like every other late era SNES RPG, which is nice but generic. It's a decent game, but nothing incredible to look at by any stretch of the imagination.
I used to think part 3 looked incredible when I first played it, but I don't think it looks so great anymore. Maybe it's because it does look pretty generic and that I prefer the more vibrant artwork of part 2 instead.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 01, 2006, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: "Keranu"
I always though Riot Zone looked great. The game was pretty mediocre, but fun at least.
Quote from: "GUTS"
And Secret of Mana does look like shit. The sprite limit is what, 3 f*cking enemies on screen? Pathetic.
I don't get it, why would you need a ton of sprites on screen to make a game look like it has good graphics? That would be a nice technical feature, but I think the casual gamer isn't going to care if it has a ton of sprites on screen or only a few.
Quote from: "GUTS"
Wow it has pretty colors! Let's all ignore the fact that the game can't move more than 3 enemy sprites around at once, and even that slows everything down!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty colors is something that's going to give the player an impression of good graphics. When the artist puts color to good use, people are going to think it looks nice.
Slowdown, yeah that's annoying but that doesn't effect the actual graphics. Hell you consider games like TFIV to look great, but that game suffers slowdown too. Or for my opinion, I think Twinkle Star Sprites looks great but it will have some mad slowdown at times. Does that change my opinion on the graphics? Absolutely not.
Quote from: "GUTS"
Plus the animation is shitty...
Finally a good point. Yes the animation is pretty average, but with artwork that most gamers seem to think is very good, the animation can be ignored.
Quote from: "GUTS the Barbarian"
the collision detection is highly suspect at best, and the treasure chest opening animation is so f*cking AWFUL the sprite doesn't even touch the chest 90% of the time.
Collision detection... what does this have to do with bad graphics again? :? And as far as treasure chest animation, OH MY GOD it doesn't have over 10 frames of animation and doesn't shine or anything when you open it!! Really though, how many games back then did you see that used more than two frames of animation for opening a chest? Even games like FFVI which people really thought had great graphics only used two frames of animation. What a big loss in the graphics department.
Quote from: "GUTS"
That game is just amatuer looking, half finished shit.
I guess the artwork just didn't tickle your fancy as it did with most people. I give you respect though for sticking out like that.
Quote from: "GUTS"
Part 3 looks like every other late era SNES RPG, which is nice but generic. It's a decent game, but nothing incredible to look at by any stretch of the imagination.
I used to think part 3 looked incredible when I first played it, but I don't think it looks so great anymore. Maybe it's because it does look pretty generic and that I prefer the more vibrant artwork of part 2 instead.
I think that the point GUTS was making with his non-graphics comments, is that the game isn't such a technical marvel that it would be completely impossible for a decent developer to make a PCE port that doesn't make some people vommit.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on October 01, 2006, 02:32:31 PM
Quote from: "akamichi"
Ajax
wasn't ajax the top-view heli game which using mode-7 like zoom/-scaling all the way? may be that one would've be one of the most impossible port to the pce :)
btw: what's happen to the announced port of Xexex? just seen some pre-pix in the mags back in the time. even the sky scaling/stretching and many of the rotation effects may not be possible to port, i'd liked to see the end result of it. or was it just a hoax? :P
Title: the lost games!
Post by: nodtveidt on October 01, 2006, 04:01:26 PM
Quote from: "Tatsujin"
wasn't ajax the top-view heli game which using mode-7 like zoom/-scaling all the way? may be that one would've be one of the most impossible port to the pce :)
Ajax switched view styles a lot throughout the game. That game was hard as hell.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on October 01, 2006, 04:09:09 PM
Quote
I don't get it, why would you need a ton of sprites on screen to make a game look like it has good graphics? That would be a nice technical feature, but I think the casual gamer isn't going to care if it has a ton of sprites on screen or only a few.
Because how many sprites it's pushing around is part of the the graphical package. Who cares if the colors are nice if the game can only display 3 sprites? Gate of Thunder wouldn't be considered graphically intense if it weren't for the amount of action on screen, if there were only 3 enemies at a time everybody would think it looked like shit.
Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty colors is something that's going to give the player an impression of good graphics. When the artist puts color to good use, people are going to think it looks nice.
Slowdown, yeah that's annoying but that doesn't effect the actual graphics. Hell you consider games like TFIV to look great, but that game suffers slowdown too. Or for my opinion, I think Twinkle Star Sprites looks great but it will have some mad slowdown at times. Does that change my opinion on the graphics? Absolutely not.
If there were 3 enemy ships on screen in TFIV when the slowdown happened, then yeah, I'd say it looks like shit. Secret of Mana is so technically underwhelming that the PCE could probably even do it BETTER than the SNES did.
Quote
Collision detection... what does this have to do with bad graphics again? :? And as far as treasure chest animation, OH MY GOD it doesn't have over 10 frames of animation and doesn't shine or anything when you open it!! Really though, how many games back then did you see that used more than two frames of animation for opening a chest? Even games like FFVI which people really thought had great graphics only used two frames of animation. What a big loss in the graphics department.
Like Black Tiger pointed out, I'm giving reasons why the game looked like shit and was easily possible on the PCE. Besides, have you ever seen the treasure chest opening animation? It's the most amatuer looking thing I've ever seen, the character doesn't even touch the chest half the time, and the other half the time the chest is touching his foot or head, and it shakes up and down about 50 f*cking times with 2 frames of animation. It's just terrible looking. If another game tried to pull that shit people would be all over it complaining about how bad it looks, but for some reason SoM gets away with all kinds of badly done crap like that.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 01, 2006, 04:26:16 PM
All I have to say is that people think Secret of Mana looks nice because of it's visual graphics, not the processing aspects. The game could probably be easily done on PCE, but I think GUTS was also stating the visual graphics of the game "looked like shit" as well. Technically the PCE couldn't handle some colors used in SoM, as the screenshots I posted earlier show, but it does a decent enough job.
EDIT: By the way GUTS, lets settle this here. Why don't you think the PCE can handle Ranger X? I played through Ranger X and it didn't seem like anything the PCE couldn't handle to me, except that Genesis transparency effect it used only a little bit in level 2, which could be faked anyways. Other than, I'd say Gates of Thunder did anything that Ranger X did.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Bonknuts on October 01, 2006, 04:41:09 PM
uhh-ohh
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Emerald Rocker on October 01, 2006, 05:26:38 PM
oh dear
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on October 01, 2006, 05:37:06 PM
punch line:
as we all know, all of the 3 systems had its weakness an strength! the SFC came up with beautiful colors and nice and smooth chip tunez but lacked a lot in speed and dynamic issues. the Mega drive in contrary was a much faster machine which was predestined for hardcore action games with raspy and brassy tunez but mostly show up a low palette in game grafx. the PCE was the perfect mixture of both. with higher color on screen than the MD and also equal in velocity, the PCE could compete easily both of the system in almost all the genres available. and all the later cd-media and all the other adds strengthed up the system beyond anything. although each of the system has its own unique titles which makes them all more than worth to own and praising.
a sapphire is only possible on the PCE, due to its arcade add on and tons of possible gadgetry! an alien soldier may be is only pissible on the MD, since the action is overloaded to its max! an axelay with all its beatiful BGs and technical gadgetry only on the SFC!
and now PLZ back to on-topic, you guys :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: FM-77 on October 02, 2006, 12:35:14 AM
Why are you comparing Secret of Mana to various shmups? I don't get this. An action RPG doesn't need tons of sprites on-screen like a shmup does. :wink:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: nodtveidt on October 02, 2006, 02:10:51 AM
Quote from: "Keranu"
Why don't you think the PCE can handle Ranger X?
This should be good. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: esteban on October 02, 2006, 02:14:14 AM
Holy crap! This thread is just beginning! :)
Title: the lost games!
Post by: FM-77 on October 02, 2006, 03:35:17 AM
Quote from: "stevek666"
Holy crap! This thread is just beginning! :)
Well, message board discussions aren't supposed to end. If they did, this board would've been long gone! :wink:
Title: the lost games!
Post by: cozzie on October 02, 2006, 06:53:04 AM
One genre I think the Pc engine cannot complete with the other systems is driving games.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 02, 2006, 07:43:02 AM
Quote from: "Tatsujin"
punch line:
as we all know, all of the 3 systems had its weakness an strength! the SFC came up with beautiful colors and nice and smooth chip tunez but lacked a lot in speed and dynamic issues. the Mega drive in contrary was a much faster machine which was predestined for hardcore action games with raspy and brassy tunez but mostly show up a low palette in game grafx. the PCE was the perfect mixture of both. with higher color on screen than the MD and also equal in velocity, the PCE could compete easily both of the system in almost all the genres available. and all the later cd-media and all the other adds strengthed up the system beyond anything. although each of the system has its own unique titles which makes them all more than worth to own and praising.
a sapphire is only possible on the PCE, due to its arcade add on and tons of possible gadgetry! an alien soldier may be is only pissible on the MD, since the action is overloaded to its max! an axelay with all its beatiful BGs and technical gadgetry only on the SFC!
and now PLZ back to on-topic, you guys :)
Speaking of getting back on-topic, I think that Sapphire could been done reasonably well on both systems. They wouldn't be pixel for pixel perfect copies, but would be similar enough to be considered decent ports. Of course, I consider the Sega-CD port of Lords Of Thunder a success and not a reason to vommit, so take that into consideration.
Quote from: "cozzie"
One genre I think the Pc engine cannot complete with the other systems is driving games.
This thread was originally a want list of dream ports for the PC Engine and has been hijacked by "can the PCE even handle any ports at all?".
But as for real actual games that exist, it all depends on the type of driving games you're refering to.
I don't know if the PC Engine "cannot complete" with MD & SFC in Racing RPG's, Top-Down Racers, Super Sprint/single-screen Racers.
But if you're refering to behind the car, driving into the screen, arcade racers, the PC Engine still has a lot of them(maybe more than either the MD or SFC do), but none are fully polygonal or anything.
I haven't played many, but I imagine that of the ones which don't have mind blowng graphics, several must still have some decent gameplay and are fun.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: esteban on October 02, 2006, 01:16:22 PM
FACT: The PCE couldn't handle the blazing fast gameplay of Hard Drivin' on the Genesis.
FACT: I'm kidding.
I'm too lazy to look it up, but was Hard Drivin' one of the earliest polygonal "racers" to make it to a 16-bit console?
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 02, 2006, 01:52:52 PM
Quote from: "stevek666"
FACT: The PCE couldn't handle the blazing fast gameplay of Hard Drivin' on the Genesis.
FACT: I'm kidding.
I'm too lazy to look it up, but was Hard Drivin' one of the earliest polygonal "racers" to make it to a 16-bit console?
I was actually going to reference Hard Drivin' in my last post, since he said "driving" instead of 'racing' games and I don't remember the PCE having any actual 'driving' games.
Does this mean we can award Falcon and Gunboat earliest awards as well? For "earliest 16-bit console polygonal flight sim" and say... "earliest 16-bit console polygonal gunboat sim"?
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on October 02, 2006, 02:07:49 PM
I'd give it the Gunboat award, but I think F-22 Raptor on Genesis was out way before Falcon on TG16. F-22 actually had a pretty decent frame rate, plus you could go third person and see your jet so it was very impressive for the time. I remember that was when I first played LHX in arcades and the whole notion of being able to move around in full 3D was amazing, I couldn't get enough of those crappy old polygon games.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 02, 2006, 02:13:40 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
I'd give it the Gunboat award, but I think F-22 Raptor on Genesis was out way before Falcon on TG16. F-22 actually had a pretty decent frame rate, plus you could go third person and see your jet so it was very impressive for the time. I remember that was when I first played LHX in arcades and the whole notion of being able to move around in full 3D was amazing, I couldn't get enough of those crappy old polygon games.
Although I'm not a sucker for pretty graphics or technical acheivements, I was blown away the first time I saw Virtua Racing and later Daytona USA in arcades in big cities. Even though Virtua Fighter didn't seem like that big of a deal to me(in the arcade). In fact, I've never been blown away by 3D arcade graphics since Daytona.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 02, 2006, 03:23:05 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
...I couldn't get enough of those crappy old polygon games.
I still can't get enough of them! Early polygons rule 8) .
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on October 02, 2006, 08:18:59 PM
Daytona USA is still the best racing game I've ever played.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 02, 2006, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: "GUTS"
Daytona USA is still the best racing game I've ever played.
You know what, it's also still my favorite too. I've loved the original Saturn version since I bought it + the system at the early launch.
Of course, I'm no racing game fan. But I know what I like.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 02, 2006, 09:09:48 PM
I didn't really find anything special in Daytona, but I loved Virtua Racing when I was a kid, even the Genesis version. I haven't played that game in a long time, so I don't know what I would think of it today.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on October 02, 2006, 11:17:18 PM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Quote from: "GUTS"
Daytona USA is still the best racing game I've ever played.
You know what, it's also still my favorite too. I've loved the original Saturn version since I bought it + the system at the early launch.
you know, mine as well (exept of out run, thats de best ever created). but the arcade one only, i never would go for the saturn-"burnin' the eyes out of your head alive"-version :D
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Digi.k on October 03, 2006, 03:17:53 AM
meh I wished daytona on the Saturn had the 3D engine used in sega rally..
That said.. Gimme Daytona USA on the Dreamcast anyday.. although you have to tweak the analogue controls because the default has stupidly high response. great new tracks and great B Univ music!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 03, 2006, 07:00:05 AM
Quote from: "Digi.k"
meh I wished daytona on the Saturn had the 3D engine used in sega rally..
That said.. Gimme Daytona USA on the Dreamcast anyday.. although you have to tweak the analogue controls because the default has stupidly high response. great new tracks and great B Univ music!
Have you tried Daytona Championship Circuit Edition? The default U.S. soundtrack was made for Keranu.
"Fly like the sons of angeeeellurssuhhh...(!)"
"How does it feel to be a winner? Descended from heaven!"
But I believe that the U.S. version has better overall 3D, but it might be the other way around. The japanese version at least has netlink play, which makes it a must own.
I couldn't really get into CCE or the DC game, because CCE felt too different didn't look as arcadey and the DC version didn't have an option for arcade faithful graphics and I hate analog.
A Daytona USA port for PC Engine would be cool. Whether it was a Victory Run/Out Run or overhead Motoroader/Off Road style. On CD it could retain the sound effects and music of the arcade. On HuCard, it'd be cool if they put an excellerator chip inside to make some kind of cool pseudo 3D effects.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 03, 2006, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Have you tried Daytona Championship Circuit Edition? The default U.S. soundtrack was made for Keranu.
"Fly with the sons of angeeeellurssuhhh...(!)"
"How does it feel to be a hero? Descended from heaven!"
I don't think I've heard played or heard this version, but that sounds a lot like that Sega of America band who did the music for the USA version of Cyber Speedway - which has a AWESOME soundtrack!
Title: Contact we have ignition!
Post by: Black Tiger on October 03, 2006, 01:19:52 PM
Quote from: "Keranu"
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Have you tried Daytona Championship Circuit Edition? The default U.S. soundtrack was made for Keranu.
"Fly with the sons of angeeeellurssuhhh...(!)"
"How does it feel to be a hero? Descended from heaven!"
I don't think I've heard played or heard this version, but that sounds a lot like that Sega of America band who did the music for the USA version of Cyber Speedway - which has a AWESOME soundtrack!
"Spreeeeead yoooour wiiiiings!"
Here ya go Keranu- http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/daytonaccetitle.mp3
If someone were to purposely give Daytona USA the Team America treatment, it would sound exactly like this.
Every line is gold and the song could easily have double meaning.
Once again, like Technocop, I'm glad that someone happened to remind me of this game, because I now have a new appreciation for it. :P
Title: the lost games!
Post by: MottZilla on October 03, 2006, 03:17:32 PM
On the point of the SFC, and esspecially slowdown and few sprites on screen at once. The key thing to remember about the SFC/SNES is that they sacrified the processor to keep costs down, but also left the door open with the expansion pins on the cartridge edge connector. The SNES equipped with some of it's best expansion chips is certainly nothing to be taunted. The SA-1 certainly fixed the slowdown issues, as could the SuperFX. Even the C4 chip helped with handling sprites.
So definitely don't belittle the SNES. It's a very well designed system with plenty of potential. And that goes for the PC-Engine too. Sadly though it's business and not every developer had the time and experience to make certain things a reality for our classic systems. But I'm pretty sure that both the SFC and PCE are capable of some of the things we dream.
Games I'd have liked to see for PCE: Street Fighter II' Arcade CD-ROM - I liked the HuCard version. It stands up well but the music certainly could have been nicer. I'm not picky which version of SF2, but any done fully exploiting the potential of the PCE+ACD would have been awesome. Mortal Kombat Arcade CD-ROM - No home system ever got this one right. Genesis lacked color depth, memory for graphical detail, and sound quality. SNES had the potential for the color depth and sound, but we all know how that turned out. PC-Engine certainly had the color depth needed and with the CD-ROM for audio I imagine something pretty good was possible. Plus with CD-ROM storing graphics the animations would be fluid and not cut down for a cartridge. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Arcade Original) Arcade CD-ROM - This would have been awesome, esspecially with 4 players via the multitap! This one truely would have been amazing.
I'm sure I could think of more. Thinking about this also makes me think about what could have been done on the SNES with a good expansion chip and CD-ROM attachment.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: nodtveidt on October 03, 2006, 04:11:45 PM
Quote from: "MottZilla"
Mortal Kombat Arcade CD-ROM
This is rumoured to actually exist, although I don't know of anyone with even a prototype of the game. As far as I know, it was to be one of the games slated to bring the ACD stateside. But whether it was completed, or even started, is beyond me. Someone promised me some screenshots of a prototype of the game in action but, surprise surprise, never produced them.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: thewestexit on October 03, 2006, 06:27:09 PM
As for Mortal Kombat, the rumor I remember hearing is that Midway/Williams/whoever actually approached TTI about doing this game, and the heads at TTI flat out refused. If that rumor is true, then I'm guessing there would be no screenshots of this one.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: GUTS on October 03, 2006, 07:10:48 PM
I remember that rumor, I think that was even printed in VG&CE back in the day? Or maybe it was Quarterman in EGM, one of the two.
Title: Re: Contact we have ignition!
Post by: Keranu on October 03, 2006, 09:43:38 PM
If someone were to purposely give Daytona USA the Team America treatment, it would sound exactly like this.
That song was killer! Thanks a ton for uploading it for me, I really enjoyed it! It wasn't the same Sega band I posted earlier, but still a great song nonetheless. I like how it ends with the music stopped and the singer just saying some jumbo, like the quote you posted "How does it feel to be a winner? Descended from heaven!" .
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on October 03, 2006, 09:53:25 PM
when keranu talked about gomola in the other thread, how i'm missing a port of UPLs mutant night :cry: :cry: especialy since there aren't any ports on any homesystems of that fabulous game from my teenager hood!
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 03, 2006, 09:55:21 PM
What is Mutant Night? Is it related to Gomola Speed?
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on October 03, 2006, 10:05:06 PM
no no, only the same softhouse :)
it's a kind cutie alien in a plattformer which can shoot big ballbullets out of his big cyclopseye. it's quite related to atomic robokid:
dear god, how i like this typical UPL bionic style!! :D
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Keranu on October 03, 2006, 10:10:48 PM
So that creepy thing has his own game! I have seen that little guy before and I think I've seen him in Atomic Robo Kid, but I never knew he had his own game. NFG has that thing on his website somewhere, I was wondering why he had that :D . I got to play that game, looks fun. I enjoy Atomic Robo Kid.
Title: the lost games!
Post by: Tatsujin on October 03, 2006, 10:24:23 PM
yes, in that specific wood level in atomic robokid, he has a small appear. if you catch him before he left the screen, you will receive 1up :)