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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: fragmare on April 02, 2017, 01:27:27 PM
Title: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 02, 2017, 01:27:27 PM
Today is the 25th birthday of Super Raiden on the PC-Engine Super CD-ROM2!
If you don't already know, Bonknuts and I are creating a little ROM hack for Super Raiden that adds to and enhances numerous aspects of the game. Actually, the bulk of this has been done for, uh, years? It's just never really seen the light of day. The project would add the following features:
*Choose Original Arcade Soundtrack, 25th Anniversary Arrangement Project soundtrack (already implemented) or remastered HuCard chiptune soundtrack *Switch to either checkpoint or respawn death (already implemented, no power up spewing) *Switch to either original PC-Engine stretched aspect ratio or proper-ish arcade aspect ratio. (already implemented) *Choice between three difficulty levels - Easy, Normal (original), or Arcade (already implemented) *Toggle the two Super Raiden exclusive stages on or off (already implemented) *New title screen *???
So, in light of Super Raiden's 25th birthday, and as soon as Bonknuts finds some free time to finish up some coding, I will be polishing this up and releasing it as the...
P.S., there is a poll going on here to vote for the two tracks that should be covered in chiptune form for the Super Raiden extra stages. Raiden II music is being used for the extra stages. Last I looked, it's tied up, so more votes would be appreciated: http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=22106.0
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: gex on April 02, 2017, 01:31:31 PM
This is sweet!! Following
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: tbone3969 on April 02, 2017, 02:08:07 PM
f*cking A this looks awesome. Following as well.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 02, 2017, 08:15:24 PM
Good luck with your project ^^ I'm not a big fan of Raiden, but that's not gonna stop me from trying out your hack when it's completed, so keep it up!
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Punch on April 02, 2017, 11:44:41 PM
Can't wait to play it!
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: roflmao on April 03, 2017, 05:04:31 AM
Looks nice, but I'll wait for the PCE Works Deluxe box set.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: tbone3969 on April 03, 2017, 05:09:52 AM
So, in light of Super Raiden's 25th birthday, and as soon as Bonknuts finds some free time to finish up some coding, I will be polishing this up and releasing it as the...
Excellent, this looks like a brilliant project! :dance:
Any idea on Bonknuts' timeline?
He's been missing for a while now, which I assume is probably because of a horribly-busy semester at school.
Title: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: esteban on April 03, 2017, 10:05:00 AM
PUBLIC MESSAGE: Vote for the song "Depression" because it really is the one that needs the love.
Tate mode? What kind of programing feat would it take to re-proportion and rotate the display 90 degrees? Kind of a bummer vertical oriented display didn't catch on in time for some PC-Engine games like Nexzr or Soldier Blade or Truxton etc.
Somewhat related, Raiden Project on PlayStation has been credited as the first home console game to offer vertical monitor orientation. (and a couple months later Super Famicom had Nichibutsu Arcade Classics 2: Heiankyo Alien with the option to turn your TV on it's side for arcade style display)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Black Tiger on April 05, 2017, 12:09:33 AM
Tate mode? What kind of programing feat would it take to re-proportion and rotate the display 90 degrees? Kind of a bummer vertical oriented display didn't catch on in time for some PC-Engine games like Nexzr or Soldier Blade or Truxton etc.
Somewhat related, Raiden Project on PlayStation has been credited as the first home console game to offer vertical monitor orientation. (and a couple months later Super Famicom had Nichibutsu Arcade Classics 2: Heiankyo Alien with the option to turn your TV on it's side for arcade style display)
It's something I'm surprised we never saw in PCE CD games at all. They would have to essentially program a horizontal shooter and rotate all of the assets beforehand, but it shouldn't have been much more work than something like the Before Christ game in Sidearms Special.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 05, 2017, 12:59:32 AM
Tate mode? What kind of programing feat would it take to re-proportion and rotate the display 90 degrees? Kind of a bummer vertical oriented display didn't catch on in time for some PC-Engine games like Nexzr or Soldier Blade or Truxton etc.
Somewhat related, Raiden Project on PlayStation has been credited as the first home console game to offer vertical monitor orientation. (and a couple months later Super Famicom had Nichibutsu Arcade Classics 2: Heiankyo Alien with the option to turn your TV on it's side for arcade style display)
euh, for that, you're looking at basically a total reprogram of the game. The PCE's middle mode is actually just about perfect for Raiden. It's 22:15, which is super close to 4:3, so everything is more or less in the correct aspect ratio. The only difference is, you wouldn't have the vertical scanlines and a few pixels at the top and bottom of the display get clipped >>
(http://i.imgur.com/bDIle5b.jpg)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Koa Zo on April 06, 2017, 02:33:51 PM
Thanks for the reply. Pretty cool to know and see that Super Raiden display is already really close to the arcade original.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: toaks on April 07, 2017, 04:02:20 AM
Can't wait for this!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Punch on April 07, 2017, 05:18:04 AM
I really am super excited for this patch! Bonknuts once gave me an old version of it a long time ago and I could never get it to work properly, I'm glad this is close to getting finished. The respawn toggle is a much welcomed addition considering the game's difficulty.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 08, 2017, 06:27:17 AM
I really am super excited for this patch! Bonknuts once gave me an old version of it a long time ago and I could never get it to work properly, I'm glad this is close to getting finished. The respawn toggle is a much welcomed addition considering the game's difficulty.
Ah, yea, this patch/hack has been mostly done for QUITE some time now. Like, uh... 4 years i wanna say? It's actually fully working and playable, as is, but it needs polished up a bit. Another thing is that I don't think the ISO of the game floating around on the internet matches the CRC of the ISO ripped straight from the retail disc with TurboRip.
If somebody with the Super Raiden retail disc is willing to rip the Track02 ISO with TurboRip and send me the file, I can compare it to the two other ISOs I have, and I can determine which is the REAL ISO (and therefore which ISO the patch should be made for). I'm hoping it's not like the Ys IV deal where there are two slightly different versions of the disc... that would complicate things.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: elmer on April 08, 2017, 08:07:34 AM
Another thing is that I don't think the ISO of the game floating around on the internet matches the CRC of the ISO ripped straight from the retail disc with TurboRip.
If somebody with the Super Raiden retail disc is willing to rip the Track02 ISO with TurboRip and send me the file, I can compare it to the two other ISOs I have, and I can determine which is the REAL ISO (and therefore which ISO the patch should be made for). I'm hoping it's not like the Ys IV deal where there are two slightly different versions of the disc... that would complicate things.
I just went to the "Paradise for Australian Birds" and downloaded a copy to see if there was a problem.
After extracting the .wav & .iso files using my patched-and-fixed Windows version of bchunk, the files all match up with the sizes reported in NightWolve's TOCFixer.
Track-02.iso is 22,839,296 bytes long, and has an MD5 of "ca25dc973a01589d857e38b951f6f508", and a CRC32 of "3b67af74".
Is that what you're seeing on your copy of the original .iso?
How are you extracting the individual .wav & .iso files from the download?
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 08, 2017, 10:54:14 PM
Another thing is that I don't think the ISO of the game floating around on the internet matches the CRC of the ISO ripped straight from the retail disc with TurboRip.
If somebody with the Super Raiden retail disc is willing to rip the Track02 ISO with TurboRip and send me the file, I can compare it to the two other ISOs I have, and I can determine which is the REAL ISO (and therefore which ISO the patch should be made for). I'm hoping it's not like the Ys IV deal where there are two slightly different versions of the disc... that would complicate things.
I just went to the "Paradise for Australian Birds" and downloaded a copy to see if there was a problem.
After extracting the .wav & .iso files using my patched-and-fixed Windows version of bchunk, the files all match up with the sizes reported in NightWolve's TOCFixer.
Track-02.iso is 22,839,296 bytes long, and has an MD5 of "ca25dc973a01589d857e38b951f6f508", and a CRC32 of "3b67af74".
Is that what you're seeing on your copy of the original .iso?
How are you extracting the individual .wav & .iso files from the download?
Yea, I'm getting that too! So, I had a friend on IRC use TurboRip to rip the ISO straight from his retail disc... Get this; the checksum/filesize of the retail ripped ISO matches with the ISO floating around on the net, AND TurboRip says it checks out, BUT... when i try to apply the PPF patch to the retail ISO, it fails. Furthermore, when I use PPF Studio to try and create a new patch from the retail ISO by comparing to the already-patched ISO to the retail ISO, PPF Studio tries to make some HUGE patch file that's bigger than the original ISO file! There's definitely something weird going on.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: elmer on April 09, 2017, 05:18:20 AM
Yea, I'm getting that too! So, I had a friend on IRC use TurboRip to rip the ISO straight from his retail disc... Get this; the checksum/filesize of the retail ripped ISO matches with the ISO floating around on the net, AND TurboRip says it checks out, BUT... when i try to apply the PPF patch to the retail ISO, it fails.
Which checksum(s) are the same? The MD5 or the CRC32 or both?
MD5 is very hard to fool ... but CRC32 could possibly match and still be different, although it's pretty unlikely.
Have you done a simple binary compare between the .iso track that your friend ripped and the one that you have?
The next thing that I'd do is dump that old PPF patcher and come into the modern era and try with modern tools like xdelta3 (an actual real internet standard) ...
http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/704/
Then you'd actually get an error message if you try to apply the patch to the retail image and retail image is different to the original.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: exodus on April 11, 2017, 06:52:44 AM
Just showing up to say I am also excited about this!! I applaud your efforts and think you are doing a cool thing!
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 13, 2017, 03:51:20 PM
Yea, I'm getting that too! So, I had a friend on IRC use TurboRip to rip the ISO straight from his retail disc... Get this; the checksum/filesize of the retail ripped ISO matches with the ISO floating around on the net, AND TurboRip says it checks out, BUT... when i try to apply the PPF patch to the retail ISO, it fails.
Which checksum(s) are the same? The MD5 or the CRC32 or both?
MD5 is very hard to fool ... but CRC32 could possibly match and still be different, although it's pretty unlikely.
Have you done a simple binary compare between the .iso track that your friend ripped and the one that you have?
The next thing that I'd do is dump that old PPF patcher and come into the modern era and try with modern tools like xdelta3 (an actual real internet standard) ...
http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/704/
Then you'd actually get an error message if you try to apply the patch to the retail image and retail image is different to the original.
I'm not sure, I'll have to go back and recheck sometime. I think I'll download that program you mentioned too. I don't create many PPF patches, so I just did a quick google search for some program to create one with. Nice to know there's something a bit better out there.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 17, 2017, 08:26:42 AM
And here's the Raiden II chiptune I just finished for the 25th Anniversary Project PSG soundtrack :)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: ccovell on April 17, 2017, 02:20:10 PM
This version is absolutely amazing. Certainly a level above Hudson's renditions of the original Raiden tunes.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: tbone3969 on April 18, 2017, 03:34:46 AM
I'm hungry for this release. Can I donate to your PayPal?
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 18, 2017, 03:51:05 AM
This version is absolutely amazing. Certainly a level above Hudson's renditions of the original Raiden tunes.
Thanks, Chris!
Yea, I'm now sort of noticing a bit of a style/quality disparity between my covers and the HuCard PSG music... I'm actually considering re-covering the entire Raiden1 soundtrack just so everything sounds cohesive haha
I'm hungry for this release. Can I donate to your PayPal?
Hah! Well, uh... sure? :p
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: spenoza on April 18, 2017, 05:46:01 AM
You need to embed some text or graphic data in the title screen that's not disruptive but is obvious indicating that it is a fan project not meant for sale. It also needs to be coded in such a way that is very hard to remove, so when Tobias inevitably sells this his buyers know that this was intended to be available for free to legit game owners.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 18, 2017, 05:48:11 AM
'IF YOU PAID FOR THIS MOD, YOU GOT F--KED' <- i think there's enough room for that :D
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: spenoza on April 18, 2017, 06:30:24 AM
Some people won't think that, though. They'll just think, "I didn't own this game at all, and I paid Tobias for the trouble of providing me the game and the upgrades." But so long as you give them a little reminder on the title screen, I think it's good enough. Not something rude, but something that tells them Tobias might just be profiting off of work others are doing for free.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: fragmare on April 18, 2017, 07:11:56 AM
Some people won't think that, though. They'll just think, "I didn't own this game at all, and I paid Tobias for the trouble of providing me the game and the upgrades." But so long as you give them a little reminder on the title screen, I think it's good enough. Not something rude, but something that tells them Tobias might just be profiting off of work others are doing for free.
I'd rather troll Tobias on the title screen. I'm petty and don't give a f*ck. ;)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: esteban on April 20, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
'IF YOU PAID FOR THIS MOD, YOU GOT F--KED' <- i think there's enough room for that :D
Exactly. A nice disclaimer for the uninformed.
:)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Punch on April 21, 2017, 04:17:05 PM
Honestly at this point in time I think that saying "If you paid for this, you f*cked over the person who actually made this possible" is way more appropriate. The PCE Works clientele doesn't give a shit about "getting f*cked" because of bogus reasons like the original being expensive, cdr damaging systems, etc. but no one ever thinks about the people who actually worked hard for it so that dickheads could make a quick buck out of it.
Yeah, they don't own the actual game either but have fun disencouraging them from working on new stuff for your shelf trophy console ever again.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: elmer on April 21, 2017, 05:22:12 PM
Honestly at this point in time I think that saying "If you paid for this, you f*cked over the person who actually made this possible" is way more appropriate. The PCE Works clientele doesn't give a shit about "getting f*cked" because of bogus reasons like the original being expensive, cdr damaging systems, etc. but no one ever thinks about the people who actually worked hard for it so that dickheads could make a quick buck out of it.
:clap:
I suspect that even that wouldn't be enough, and would just make the self-entitled asshats that post videos of their 733t collections laugh at the stupidity of others giving away their time for free.
We've talked about this before.
I really, really, really don't want to alter Falcom's games and put my message/credits in front of their creation.
I could certainly do it. At this point I could entirely re-master the CD and shuffle around the location of every piece of data in the .iso track so that Tobias would have to spend months of programmer-time to erase the screen.
But ... we went through this all in the 1980s.
Teams of crackers would start hacking the copy-protection out of games within minutes of them being released.
What one programmer can create, another can destroy (given the will and enough time).
30+ years later ... is that still the game that we're playing? ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: esteban on April 22, 2017, 02:24:07 AM
I think a tasteful disclaimer on a title screen is OK... but it should state a simple message. No personal tag/credit to sully the title screen.
As I've said before, this was done by "indie" (punk) musicians in the 70's/80's to inform customers that some stores were steeply inflating the price of some records... A short disclaimer with "Pay no more than _____" was commonly found on records.
I don't see the harm in a small message like this.
Of course, agreeing on what the actual text of the message should be... well, that is probably a opening a can of worms.
:)
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: ccovell on April 22, 2017, 10:55:24 PM
I could certainly do it. At this point I could entirely re-master the CD and shuffle around the location of every piece of data in the .iso track so that Tobias would have to spend months of programmer-time to erase the screen.
There are many fun ways to do it. And since it's an RPG, putting it at the end of the credits would near guarantee that the casual/a$$hole will not have the willpower to see/remove it. :)
For example. Hypothetically.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: Black Tiger on April 23, 2017, 03:52:58 AM
All that Tobias will do is sell a bloated 25th Anniversary set of his own with a bootleg of Super Raiden and that's all that will be advertised on his site. He'll send free copies of the set along with a pressed copy of this custom version to greedy youtubers who will tell everyone that the PCEWorks team is the hardest working and single greatest contributor to the PCE community.
Then he will send along a "limited number" of "free" copies of this version as a "bonus" to customers who buy the set and later make a limited number available free to anyone who asks.
The only people complaining will be on here and everyone else be thanking him and demanding more projects like this from his team.
Collectards are the majority of retro game enthusiasts now and all that they care about is the packaging. Tobias could do some really nasty things and all that they will say is how great the presentation is.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: elmer on April 23, 2017, 04:44:22 AM
All that Tobias will do is sell a bloated 25th Anniversary set of his own with a bootleg of Super Raiden and that's all that will be advertised on his site. He'll send free copies of the set along with a pressed copy of this custom version to greedy youtubers who will tell everyone that the PCEWorks team is the hardest working and single greatest contributor to the PCE community.
Then he will send along a "limited number" of "free" copies of this version as a "bonus" to customers who buy the set and later make a limited number available free to anyone who asks.
Exactly, you get it!
He's already figured-out how to reproduce and appear to "give-away-for-free" any translations or projects like this 25th Anniversary project, in a way that we can't stop, and where we'll just look totally petty if we complain.
The YouTubers and collectards will just say "Jeez guys, what's wrong with giving stuff away for free ... Tobias is a really generous guy!".
Unless the original manufacturers decide to get involved and stop him from selling their games, I don't see that there's much that most translators, or people who make other derivative-works, like this 25th Anniversary project, can actually do.
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: exodus on April 23, 2017, 09:20:14 PM
yeah, a big "if you paid for this, get your money back, you got screwed" on the title screen would work pretty well :P
Title: Re: Happy 25th birthday, Super Raiden!
Post by: nectarsis on April 24, 2017, 03:57:55 AM