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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: spenoza on April 11, 2017, 09:34:49 AM
Title: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: spenoza on April 11, 2017, 09:34:49 AM
So, someone posted, back in 2006, that they thought their VB sounded a lot like the PCE. Well, I was randomly reading about the Virtual Boy today and stumbled across the audio specs. Turns out it uses 6-bit wavetable sound across 5 channels, with a 6th channel for noise. The capabilities are very close to those of the PC Engine. Here's more info:
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Dicer on April 11, 2017, 09:43:09 AM
If I recall the VB and the PC-FX use the same processor as well, or a damn near close one.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: esteban on April 11, 2017, 10:29:17 AM
Ha! That's pretty kool. :)
I never realized the cousins were this close.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: EvilEvoIX on April 11, 2017, 11:57:59 AM
small world. Wasn't the PC Engine originally pitched to Nintendo for the Super Nintendo Hardware?
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Punch on April 11, 2017, 12:29:25 PM
I swear I remember seeing an early SNES tech demo cartridge with a freely rotateable Mode 7 plane with the NEC logo texture hidden behind it... but I can't find it anymore
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: spenoza on April 11, 2017, 01:11:34 PM
I swear I remember seeing an early SNES tech demo cartridge with a freely rotateable Mode 7 plane with the NEC logo texture hidden behind it... but I can't find it anymore
Come on. Top result on my first search. http://www.nintendoplayer.com/unreleased/dsp-1/
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: elmer on April 11, 2017, 01:50:50 PM
If I recall the VB and the PC-FX use the same processor as well, or a damn near close one.
99%+ the same CPU. Nintendo got NEC to add 6 new instructions to their version of the CPU, but they're non-critically important additions.
That's why I got the VB guys to beta-test my PC-FX compiler patches ... they actually have an active (if tiny) homebrew scene for their machine.
One huge difference between the two machine's use of the CPU, is that Nintendo went "cheap", as they often did, and gave it a 16-bit memory bus, with wait-states.
The PC-FX runs a 32-bit memory bus, without wait-states.
That's a pretty-important difference when it comes to performance, especially on early RISC architectures like the V810.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: spenoza on April 11, 2017, 02:16:54 PM
So the VB is actually very similar to the PC-FX in terms of CPU and audio capabilities. Interesting...
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 11, 2017, 03:30:04 PM
I've been wanting to know what were the VB's audio specs for a while as I too have noticed the similarities in the sound, I knew it was wavetable but, well, now I know how it compares to the PCE! Not bad at all, but let me tell you something from experience, having a channel that can switch between both white noise and wavetables really goes a long way when it comes to making good PSG drums, at least a whole lot better than a channel dedicated to playing just noise... Do you know if the VB is capable of playing samples?
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Black Tiger on April 12, 2017, 02:16:45 AM
I've been wanting to know what were the VB's audio specs for a while as I too have noticed the similarities in the sound, I knew it was wavetable but, well, now I know how it compares to the PCE! Not bad at all, but let me tell you something from experience, having a channel that can switch between both white noise and wavetables really goes a long way when it comes to making good PSG drums, at least a whole lot better than a channel dedicated to playing just noise... Do you know if the VB is capable of playing samples?
Yes:
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 12, 2017, 06:32:24 AM
I've been wanting to know what were the VB's audio specs for a while as I too have noticed the similarities in the sound, I knew it was wavetable but, well, now I know how it compares to the PCE! Not bad at all, but let me tell you something from experience, having a channel that can switch between both white noise and wavetables really goes a long way when it comes to making good PSG drums, at least a whole lot better than a channel dedicated to playing just noise... Do you know if the VB is capable of playing samples?
Yes:
http://youtu.be/nUChl88zcZE
Wow, not only can it play samples, but they sound quite a bit better than samples on the PCE! I imagine it's because of the higher bit-depth and the better sample rate that a more powerful CPU would allow... That said though, the lack of bass and percussion in the music bothers me...
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Black Tiger on April 12, 2017, 06:38:39 AM
Afaik the music is ripped straight from the PCE version.
The sound may not be accurate, since it's emulation footage.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 12, 2017, 06:41:23 AM
Afaik the music is ripped straight from the PCE version.
The sound may not be accurate, since it's emulation footage.
In that case, then the lack of that 6th wavetable channel is probably part of the problem... Unless you can somehow play samples on the Noise channel (which I doubt you can)
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: spenoza on April 12, 2017, 07:59:38 AM
What little documentation I found suggests that channel 6 is dedicated to noise, and 1-5 cannot do noise.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: ccovell on April 12, 2017, 01:19:34 PM
While most VB games that I've played never did anything as layered or interesting as what you hear on the PCE, I do recommend the Red Alarm soundtrack. It has long, hummable attempts at GB/VB techno on each stage.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 12, 2017, 03:01:52 PM
While most VB games that I've played never did anything as layered or interesting as what you hear on the PCE, I do recommend the Red Alarm soundtrack. It has long, hummable attempts at GB/VB techno on each stage.
I listened to it a bit, and yeah it's pretty good! But it ain't beating what I hear on the PCE...
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: ccovell on April 12, 2017, 05:35:17 PM
As I had noted. I think most VB devs treated the audio portion as 2 GBs sewn together.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: fragmare on April 13, 2017, 03:45:49 PM
I've been wanting to know what were the VB's audio specs for a while as I too have noticed the similarities in the sound, I knew it was wavetable but, well, now I know how it compares to the PCE! Not bad at all, but let me tell you something from experience, having a channel that can switch between both white noise and wavetables really goes a long way when it comes to making good PSG drums, at least a whole lot better than a channel dedicated to playing just noise... Do you know if the VB is capable of playing samples?
Yes:
http://youtu.be/nUChl88zcZE
How would you ever tell when the red fireball glitch happens? :P
Interesting the VB's sound hardware is so close to the PCE's. 6-bit wavetables would be nice, less stair-stepping of the waveform. Anybody know how many bytes of RAM each wavetable can use? If it's 64 bytes, that should make a nice, square 64x64 sample grid to work with.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 13, 2017, 05:07:32 PM
Interesting the VB's sound hardware is so close to the PCE's. 6-bit wavetables would be nice, less stair-stepping of the waveform. Anybody know how many bytes of RAM each wavetable can use? If it's 64 bytes, that should make a nice, square 64x64 sample grid to work with.
I don't know man, the slightly bit-crushed sound of the PCE is part of what gives it its charm in my opinion >w> I mean, the Famicom Disk System has a 6 bit wavetable channel with a 64 x 64 grid, and well, while it does sound pretty damn nice, I mean it's wavetable synth of course it sounds nice, it doesn't really have that same distinct charm that the PC engine and even the Game Boy's DAC channel have... Besides, I find it harder to draw the waveforms that I want with a bigger grid, it's easier on the PCE...
But keep in mind that this is coming from the one who legitimately likes Game Boy Advance audio so don't listen to me if you don't want to...
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: elmer on April 13, 2017, 06:08:48 PM
Interesting the VB's sound hardware is so close to the PCE's. 6-bit wavetables would be nice, less stair-stepping of the waveform. Anybody know how many bytes of RAM each wavetable can use? If it's 64 bytes, that should make a nice, square 64x64 sample grid to work with.
The official docs are out-there if you look for them. :wink:
It's 32 6-bit-samples per-wavetable, and there are a total of 5 wavetables, but each channel can independently select which one of the 5 wavetables it is going to use (i.e. they're not tied to each channel, unlike the PCE).
Channel 6, and only channel 6, is able to output noise ... but it is a noise-only channel and no wavetable possible.
According to the doc, there is no direct sample-output, and you can only change the wavetable memory when ALL sound output is stopped.
So ... very limited compared to the PCE.
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: Michirin9801 on April 13, 2017, 07:11:33 PM
The official docs are out-there if you look for them. :wink:
It's 32 6-bit-samples per-wavetable, and there are a total of 5 wavetables, but each channel can independently select which one of the 5 wavetables it is going to use (i.e. they're not tied to each channel, unlike the PCE).
Channel 6, and only channel 6, is able to output noise ... but it is a noise-only channel and no wavetable possible.
According to the doc, there is no direct sample-output, and you can only change the wavetable memory when ALL sound output is stopped.
So ... very limited compared to the PCE.
So let me get this straight: You can only have 5 waveforms loaded into memory at a time, and if you want to change one (or more) of the waveforms out for another you have to turn off all the sound channels, then load another waveform, then turn the channels back on?
That sounds pretty limiting, but I think it's workable...
Title: Re: Virtual Boy audio very closely resembles PC Engine audio
Post by: elmer on April 14, 2017, 05:22:47 AM
So let me get this straight: You can only have 5 waveforms loaded into memory at a time, and if you want to change one (or more) of the waveforms out for another you have to turn off all the sound channels, then load another waveform, then turn the channels back on?
That's my understand from the doc. I could be misreading it, but it seems pretty clear.