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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: BigusSchmuck on May 24, 2017, 03:19:24 AM
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Might be a bit old (and someone might have posted this) but a good read. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/interview_the_trouble_with_the_turbografx_16
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I think that I've read that before.
What a f*cking incompetent idiot!
Yeah ... "Before that I was VP of Marketing at Atari" ... but he had no idea that Christmas was a major buying time, and that parents are the buyers. That's even though they wanted to target slightly older players.
Then the whole "we made it bigger because people expected that", rather than actually figuring out how to market the smaller hi-tech aspect ... you know ... vinyl records to smaller CDs, big tape decks to small Walkmans, large old computers to smaller computer, etc, etc.
Instead ... let's delay our time-to-market and redesign it as a big and ugly empty box.
A talentless paper-pusher.
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I agree the guy is a goob, but he was sadly right about one thing. The American public equates bigger with more power. That's why the original Xbox is giant but mostly empty space inside.
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I think that I've read that before.
What a f*cking incompetent idiot!
Yeah ... "Before that I was VP of Marketing at Atari" ... but he had no idea that Christmas was a major buying time, and that parents are the buyers. That's even though they wanted to target slightly older players.
Then the whole "we made it bigger because people expected that", rather than actually figuring out how to market the smaller hi-tech aspect ... you know ... vinyl records to smaller CDs, big tape decks to small Walkmans, large old computers to smaller computer, etc, etc.
Instead ... let's delay our time-to-market and redesign it as a big and ugly empty box.
A talentless paper-pusher.
I also find this confusing. Maybe it was before me, maybe I just never experienced it...I never ONCE heard someone complain that their video game system wasn't big enough, or that size= power. I've heard it with cars and other...things, but never video games.
This is the kind of moronic 80s Atari-think that creates a 5200 large enough to land an f-16 on.
The gamasutra article about TG also mentions this:
"The company made the decision to redesign the PC Engine's casing for its introduction to the U.S. Compared to other consoles of the era, the PC Engine was tiny, thanks to its well-engineered internals and the credit card sized HuCARD format. However, "there was a feeling" that American consumers wanted something bigger -- and something more futuristic, Wirt says."
I think bigger system=better system idea may originate solely with one Ken Wirt. "There was a feeling"....wtf? Is it something the Japanese thought by some chance? And if bigger=better, why did they stick with hucards?
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Yeah, I never heard anyone complain about smaller electronics. The SMS, NES, Genny, SNES, etc were all downsized with later revisions and everyone was happy.
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I think bigger system=better system idea may originate solely with one Ken Wirt. "There was a feeling"....wtf? Is it something the Japanese thought by some chance? And if bigger=better, why did they stick with hucards?
I'm sure that they ran a "focus group" ... his sort always do.
But it's about how you prepare that focus group and market your product.
Say, like providing a picture of one tiny 1MB HuCard next to a stack of 8 128KB NES cartridges, and saying that "Through the Power of Technology, we can fit all of those old out-of-date games into this one sleek package." or some similar marketing BS.
Put an R-Type Arcade Machine in a car-crusher, and make it appear to strain and have difficulty crushing it down to size, and then show a PC Engine coming out at the end ... and show the game, which just looks far-better than any other version.
It's not rocket-science, it's just being competent at your job.
If they'd not messed around with that stupid redesign, that could have had a year's head-start on the MegaDrive, and be showing R-Type to people instead of Sega's Altered Beast.
We've been through this all before. NEC USA were just not even remotely competent.
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I agree the guy is a goob, but he was sadly right about one thing. The American public equates bigger with more power. That's why the original Xbox is giant but mostly empty space inside.
Have you ever actually opened the OG Xbox?
It's not as roomy as you are making it out to be, and most of the space was for heat reasons.
OT: this guy was a clueless idiot, and most of us here could have pushed the console into more success than this buffoon.
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I'm sure that they ran a "focus group" ... his sort always do.
But it's about how you prepare that focus group and market your product.
Say, like providing a picture of one tiny 1MB HuCard next to a stack of 8 128KB NES cartridges, and saying that "Through the Power of Technology, we can fit all of those old out-of-date games into this one sleek package." or some similar marketing BS.
Put an R-Type Arcade Machine in a car-crusher, and make it appear to strain and have difficulty crushing it down to size, and then show a PC Engine coming out at the end ... and show the game, which just looks far-better than any other version.
It's not rocket-science, it's just being competent at your job.
If they'd not messed around with that stupid redesign, that could have had a year's head-start on the MegaDrive, and be showing R-Type to people instead of Sega's Altered Beast.
We've been through this all before. NEC USA were just not even remotely competent.
Ha! I should have read more (or remembered more) from the gamasutra article I myself referred to:
"The marketing and advertising company came up with some sketches, and they conducted focus groups," says Carol Balkcom, who was part of NEC's launch team. Once the externals were designed, engineering began: "it takes time to do a redesign and a re-layout of stuff," says O'Keefe. "Plastic's not exactly a quick-turnaround item, especially if you're changing the design every so often."
The redesign of the hardware dragged on. O'Keefe says that the company wasted months trying to create a rubber-textured cover for the console's rear expansion port -- work which was abandoned when a usable solution could not be created. "It would have been nicer to have the same form factor as the Japanese. It would have cured a lot of problems, issues," O'Keefe says.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/225466/stalled_engine_the_turbografx16_.php?print=1
As you pointed out, that redesign time delay was not helping anything.
(I like your R-type promo btw).
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That R-Type commercial could have been a game changer, it's genious in its simplicity... not sure if that would've had helped with Japanese meddling and high production costs for hucards though.
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not sure if that would've had helped with Japanese meddling and high production costs for hucards though.
Yeah, HuCard production costs wouldn't have helped ... but it's not like all of the chips on a NES cart are exactly cheap to put in place. And people *will* sometimes pay a premium for stuff, especially the early-adopters, *if* you can give them a reason to do so in that critical first-year on sale.
Make it cool and sexy and hi-tech and arcade-at-home ... it might work.
Nothing in NEC USA's plan showed any imagination or possibility for success.
Basically a no-imagination huge corporate-culture attempt to set up a new overseas division with over-promoted lackluster middle-management types, and layers of meddling before you can get to a real decision-maker, rather than Nintendo's fast small-company dynamic and ruthless business savvy, or Sega's scrappy determination to find a way around Nintendo and carve out a niche in the market for their Megadrive.
NEC remind me of Microsoft.
Except that Microsoft had the bankroll and determination to keep on running up massive losses for long enough to eventually figure out how to make it work.
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I agree the guy is a goob, but he was sadly right about one thing. The American public equates bigger with more power. That's why the original Xbox is giant but mostly empty space inside.
Have you ever actually opened the OG Xbox?
It's not as roomy as you are making it out to be, and most of the space was for heat reasons.
OT: this guy was a clueless idiot, and most of us here could have pushed the console into more success than this buffoon.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Also, that system was basically given away for free and cost MS many billions in losses so it's a pretty bad example of "people like big". People liked the Cube a shitload more and that was the most PC Engine-esque system I can think of when it comes to genius economy of space.
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TV Sports Tennis?? I think I recall that being in some old coming soon lists along with TV Sports Boxing, I wonder how far along it got?
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If they really had to make it bigger, why not go all the way and stick the multi-tap and turbo-booster in it from the get-go? I know why, because they wanted to sell you those things sepparately, but seriously, just imagine marketing it as the first game system with 5 players built-in, with no need for a multi-tap, and showing off Multiplayer Bomberman and Dungeon Explorer footage to promote it?
Btw, that R-Type commercial would have been the s***!
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If they really had to make it bigger, why not go all the way and stick the multi-tap and turbo-booster in it from the get-go? I know why, because they wanted to sell you those things sepparately, but seriously, just imagine marketing it as the first game system with 5 players built-in, with no need for a multi-tap, and showing off Multiplayer Bomberman and Dungeon Explorer footage to promote it?
Btw, that R-Type commercial would have been the s***!
Funny that you mention marketing. I remember the N64 doing exactly that with four ports.
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Well you know what they say, Hindsight is 20/20. Dude being a ex VP of Marketing from Atari should have been clue on why they thought bigger was better. lol
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Well you know what they say, Hindsight is 20/20. Dude being a ex VP of Marketing from Atari should have been clue on why they thought bigger was better. lol
Yes thats why Atari fall from the same cliff
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I think that I've read that before.
What a f*cking incompetent idiot!
Yeah ... "Before that I was VP of Marketing at Atari" ... but he had no idea that Christmas was a major buying time, and that parents are the buyers. That's even though they wanted to target slightly older players.
Then the whole "we made it bigger because people expected that", rather than actually figuring out how to market the smaller hi-tech aspect ... you know ... vinyl records to smaller CDs, big tape decks to small Walkmans, large old computers to smaller computer, etc, etc.
Instead ... let's delay our time-to-market and redesign it as a big and ugly empty box.
A talentless paper-pusher.
The larger Gamasutra article puts this in context. Basically, the initial NEC USA staff was all appliance folks, trying to sell the system like a VCR. And Japan really did cock-block the entire process, all along (which we already knew). But I didn't realize that NEC's advertising was constrained by major over-manufacturing of the system, and I also didn't realize that the redesign took so long. I know the system came to the US late, but I thought that was NEC not acting early enough. I didn't realize they were doing things, sitting on a commercially viable piece of hardware, for so long prior to the TG-16 release. Having a year on the Genesis and 2 years on the SNES could have made a difference, though given NEC Japan's treatment of the US staff's ideas, it might only have made so much difference.
Also, really unhappy how Hudson basically shat on TTI (still talking about the Gamasutra article). I mean, I knew a lot of that already, but it's still annoying to be reminded in such detail. Hudson just wanted to extract themselves from the market. They already made all their royalty money on the initial NEC over-production of 3/4 of a million units. No point trying to squeeze out a minuscule amount later. Of course, given the PC-FX, maybe they should have tried harder to stay in the game in the US.
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When did NEC and Hudson Soft of Japan admit to ruining the Turbo brand from before day one?
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If they really had to make it bigger, why not go all the way and stick the multi-tap and turbo-booster in it from the get-go? I know why, because they wanted to sell you those things sepparately, but seriously, just imagine marketing it as the first game system with 5 players built-in, with no need for a multi-tap, and showing off Multiplayer Bomberman and Dungeon Explorer footage to promote it?
Btw, that R-Type commercial would have been the s***!
Funny that you mention marketing. I remember the N64 doing exactly that with four ports.
Yeah, there were a lot of missed opportunities in the advertising for sure. I mean the Genesis was a great system but one of the main reasons it succeeded as much as it did in the US was the stellar marketing team.
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If they really had to make it bigger, why not go all the way and stick the multi-tap and turbo-booster in it from the get-go? I know why, because they wanted to sell you those things sepparately, but seriously, just imagine marketing it as the first game system with 5 players built-in, with no need for a multi-tap, and showing off Multiplayer Bomberman and Dungeon Explorer footage to promote it?
Btw, that R-Type commercial would have been the s***!
Funny that you mention marketing. I remember the N64 doing exactly that with four ports.
Yeah, there were a lot of missed opportunities in the advertising for sure. I mean the Genesis was a great system but one of the main reasons it succeeded as much as it did in the US was the stellar marketing team.
I think you mean to say, "BLAST PROCESSING!!!"
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I think you folks are being overly critical.
:)
Americans certainly want to get their money's worth, and they *do* love things that are curiously elongated.
Just ask my priest.