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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: GUTS on October 22, 2006, 09:21:13 PM
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I just finished this tonight, and JEEEZZZUS it is f*cking awful in every sense of the word. Let me just run down the list of problems;
-There isn't even a hint of parallax. Not even one background layer.
-The worst flicker I have ever seen in any game, period. Remember how bad the first generation of SNES games were for flicker? Well Strider is like that times about 10. There are parts on every level where you literally can't even see Strider because his entire sprite disappears. For example, when you beat the first boss (or any boss actually), you disappear for a few seconds while the smoke sprites appear. It's not limited to Strider either, everything flickers in and out of existence, there are a few parts in the game where you will get hit by invisible enemies every single f*cking time you play, it's maddening. The game can't even display every sprite in the snake bosses at once, and if Strider is standing on the same line then about half of the boss disappears (either that or Strider disappears).
-Strider doesn't move his legs when you swing your sword and walk, it looks like he's just sliding along the ground.
-His sword swinging animation has exactly 2 frames of animation. Instead of his sword making one cool looking swath like in the arcade and Genesis version, here his sword flickers between an upper/lower half that just looks plain amatuerish.
-Horrible, horrible collision detection. Sometimes you can be inches away from a projectile or enemy, and it'll score a hit for some reason, and other times I've had projectiles pass through Strider's limbs with no hit scored. It's very inconsistent and frustrating.
-The controls are f*cking trash. Sometimes Strider jumps straight up when you jump off objects, sometimes he jumps a little up and to the left or right, depending on how he feels. Sometimes this causes you to fall into pits. When you're running down soemthing sometimes the game just decides to ignore you pressing the jump button, especially if it's something like a vine.
Especially annoying/frustrating/retarded parts of the game;
-Beating the gravity boss on the last level will dump you straight down into a pit about 75% of the time.
-The gravity bosses take about 4 times as many hits as in the arcade/Genesis, and you get knocked out of your rotations by invisible things (I still have no idea what does it, but every 2 rotations you just get hit for no reason no matter what).
-The gorilla boss will cause you to roll INTO him if you get hit instead of knocking you back like EVERY OTHER f*ckING thing in the game.
-You don't fight the Gorilla and T-rex at the same time like in the arcade, you fight the t-rex first which is pointless since he doesn't even attack you, he just sits there. The gorilla also takes about 2-3 times more hits.
-In level 2 you have to duck to hit the stupid dogs, in the arcade you could just walk forward and smash them.
-Level 4 the brontosaurus' don't even move! In the arcade they walked along with you on their back, here they just stand there and make you jump off their heads (Which is ultra annoying since Strider tends to fall through shit easily, and you have to inch your way to the tip of the first one's nose to be able to jump to the next one).
-The ending sucks SHIT. They give you a few decently cool (but short) cinemas in between levels, then you get 3 f*cking crappy little barely animated pictures for the ending. They even took out the cool scene from the arcade ending where he lands his glider on a whale. Why was this an arcade card game?
THE GOOD!
-The extra level is decent, even though it's ultra easy.
-The intro/level intro cinemas are really, really short, but pretty cool.
-The voice acting is nice (even though I can't understand the awesome "All sons of old gods, DIE!!" speach since it's in Japanese).
-You get unlimited continues so you can beat it in one night and never touch it again. Good luck with the last boss though, I had to play through that last level about 15 f*cking times before I got lucky and beat him.
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do agree in almost all the points!!
especially the collision detection is one of the worst points out of them. not to forget to mention the awful shit which happen in the non-gravitation room *urks*
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Yeah, Strider was disappointing. Being delayed and format shifted over and over again didn't help things either.
I thought that gravity room boss was pretty cool in the arcade, but for the longest time I never did understand why you got hit all of a sudden. I just figured that you get launched out of the boss's orbit and slammed into the side of the room.
I pretty much agree with all your points, but I can think of other games that could beat out Strider as worst port of all time. :)
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I pretty much agree with all your points, but I can think of other games that could beat out Strider as worst port of all time. :)
Like Golden Axe? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Altered Beast :P
Sprite flickering at it's best.
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Even the Spectrum version is better.
Guts, do you have by chance a save state of the credits part?
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I just finished this tonight, and JEEEZZZUS it is f*cking awful in every sense of the word. Let me just run down the list of problems;
DUDE! I am even more stoked to play this game now :)
Seriously, I'll pay a fair price for your copy. I don't need it immediately (too busy), but if you're going to get rid of it, I'll buy it now (I'd like to think of it as a "Christmas Gift to Myself" -- it gives me something to look forward too).
I am only familiar with the nes/arcade/genny version, so I'm really curious about the extra stage in the PCE game and witnessing all of the mayhem you discussed in your post.
As far as flicker goes, many NES games that pushed the limits of the system (I'm thinking of the later-era Konami titles here) suffered from flicker worse than the SNES titles.
Of course, this flicker wasn't inherently bad, since the games were very much playable. Strider ACD, on the other hand, seems to be afflicted with flicker that cripples the game -- I eagerly await it!
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No I played it on an actual Duo so I didn't get a save state. Oh and for some stupid reason Strider leaves his sword floating in space, I don't know why.
Steve if I decide to sell it I'll give you first shot, I think I might keep it as trade fodder though unless I really need the money. I actually scored a really good deal on it and that's the only reason I bought it. Unless you have something up for trade? Anyway, I'll let you know if I decide to sell, it all depends kinda on whether another Might & Magic III goes up on ebay and I need the money to help pay for it, haha.
Also I might have been hasty calling it the WORST port of all time, there are definitely some worse ones. But after trying to beat that last glitchy ass level 15 times in a row I was pretty f'n pissed when I finally smoked the game and saw the shitty ending, I was expecting at LEAST a full screen picture or two, maybe even some cool animation, but all I got was barely a first gen Turbo Chip quality ending.
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No I played it on an actual Duo so I didn't get a save state. Oh and for some stupid reason Strider leaves his sword floating in space, I don't know why.
Steve if I decide to sell it I'll give you first shot, I think I might keep it as trade fodder though unless I really need the money. I actually scored a really good deal on it and that's the only reason I bought it. Unless you have something up for trade? Anyway, I'll let you know if I decide to sell, it all depends kinda on whether another Might & Magic III goes up on ebay and I need the money to help pay for it, haha.
Also I might have been hasty calling it the WORST port of all time, there are definitely some worse ones. But after trying to beat that last glitchy ass level 15 times in a row I was pretty f'n pissed when I finally smoked the game and saw the shitty ending, I was expecting at LEAST a full screen picture or two, maybe even some cool animation, but all I got was barely a first gen Turbo Chip quality ending.
Haha. No problem. M & M III, huh? I can't tell you how badly I want to find a copy of that at a garage sale. I went to a bunch of garage sales over the weekend, looking for furniture, but I kept hoping I'd see a stack of TTi-era games.
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Haha. No problem. M & M III, huh? I can't tell you how badly I want to find a copy of that at a garage sale. I went to a bunch of garage sales over the weekend, looking for furniture, but I kept hoping I'd see a stack of TTi-era games.
I'm always hoping to find a stack of TTi-era games at a garage sale or thrift store :( .
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I just finished this tonight, and JEEEZZZUS it is f*cking awful in every sense of the word. Let me just run down the list of problems;
-There isn't even a hint of parallax. Not even one background layer.
This isn't a bad thing on its own. Forgotten Worlds looks great without parallax. Of course, the lack of parallax should've afforded minimal slowdown/flicker.
-His sword swinging animation has exactly 2 frames of animation. Instead of his sword making one cool looking swath like in the arcade and Genesis version, here his sword flickers between an upper/lower half that just looks plain amatuerish.
When I read Joe Redifer's Genesis Strider review the other day, he said that the Genesis version actually has only 1 frame of animation for the sword swing.
-Horrible, horrible collision detection. Sometimes you can be inches away from a projectile or enemy, and it'll score a hit for some reason, and other times I've had projectiles pass through Strider's limbs with no hit scored. It's very inconsistent and frustrating.
-The controls are f*cking trash. Sometimes Strider jumps straight up when you jump off objects, sometimes he jumps a little up and to the left or right, depending on how he feels. Sometimes this causes you to fall into pits. When you're running down soemthing sometimes the game just decides to ignore you pressing the jump button, especially if it's something like a vine.
These are some of the problems I had with the PSP version.
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How does the PSP version compare to the PSX version? Because I love the PSX version, I just beat it again last night to compare it to the PCE version. It really, really makes the PCE version look poor if you play it back to back with the PSX version, it's pretty sad.
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How does the PSP version compare to the PSX version? Because I love the PSX version, I just beat it again last night to compare it to the PCE version. It really, really makes the PCE version look poor if you play it back to back with the PSX version, it's pretty sad.
I've had the PSX version for a few weeks now, but haven't played it yet.
I've never played the real arcade and am not a fan of the game, so I won't know how perfect any version really is.
The PSP version had some un-fun gameplay/controls, but even playing it on my Mame cabinet won't give me an idea if it's a port issue since the X-arcade doesn't control perfectly itself. :roll:
Like all games on the PSP CCC, you get a sound test with 2 or 3 remixes after beating the game. Its cool to here the original music to compare to the ACD music.
I saw a Strider soundtrack somewhere recently, which appeared to have redone tracks. I wonder if the ACD just uses those?
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Eh... I thought it was okay. True there are better ports, and disappointing considering that this coulda/shoulda been a killer ACD port, but I had my fun for a few days with this one. I haven't touched it too much since, but I do give it quick go once in awhile.
The thing that saves this port is the fact that like many other PCECD games, music is ROCKIN' compared to other versions
-The gravity bosses take about 4 times as many hits as in the arcade/Genesis, and you get knocked out of your rotations by invisible things (I still have no idea what does it, but every 2 rotations you just get hit for no reason no matter what).
I recall that was true in other versions too? (getting knocked out by centrifugal force or whatever it is).
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Eh... I thought it was okay. True there are better ports, and disappointing considering that this coulda/shoulda been a killer ACD port, but I had my fun for a few days with this one. I haven't touched it too much since, but I do give it quick go once in awhile.
The thing that saves this port is the fact that like many other PCECD games, music is ROCKIN' compared to other versions
-The gravity bosses take about 4 times as many hits as in the arcade/Genesis, and you get knocked out of your rotations by invisible things (I still have no idea what does it, but every 2 rotations you just get hit for no reason no matter what).
I recall that was true in other versions too? (getting knocked out by centrifugal force or whatever it is).
That does sound like what happened to me in the PSP version, but again, I'm not overly familar with the game in general.
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Yeah the music is really, really good in some places actually, I forgot to list that in the good points of the game. Especially the first stage, I really liked the redone music for that one.
After reading some faqs apparently every version but the PSX version has the thing where you get knocked out of orbit for no reason. In the PSX version you can smash the core in 1 or 2 orbits max, so you don't deal with it. I guess that was the biggest change from the arcade to the PSX, all the other changes were incredibly minor and would only be noticed by ultimate Strider fans. I might play through the Genesis version tonight and see if it does it, I don't remember it but it's been years so I probably just forgot.
Also, playing through Strider again a few times has made me realize how great of a game it is. I used to think it was one of those moldy oldies that doesn't hold up well anymore, but damn once you get the hang of it and manage to smoke a level without dying it feels extremely awesome. Learning the levels enough to where you can blast through them is super fun, you can be wreckless and crazy in some places and in other places you have to use precise strategy, it all meshes together very well.
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the BGM is the best in the MD version imo. also it changes a lot during one level (e.g. in the 2nd stage). for authentic arcade feeling the PSX version is the way to go.
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It's better on MAME than it is on the PS1! :lol:
I agree about the constantly changing music on the Genesis version, that is cool. I have an illegally downloaded CD-R version of Strider for the PCE that I think I'll try to play through right now. And yes, the Genesis version knocks you out of orbit.
Strider is one of two games I own both the US version and the Japanese version (Thunder Force 4 being the other). I have the US version because I've had it forever, but I got the Japanese version because it was cheap and had things that were omitted in the Genesis version.
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Also, playing through Strider again a few times has made me realize how great of a game it is. I used to think it was one of those moldy oldies that doesn't hold up well anymore, but damn once you get the hang of it and manage to smoke a level without dying it feels extremely awesome. Learning the levels enough to where you can blast through them is super fun, you can be wreckless and crazy in some places and in other places you have to use precise strategy, it all meshes together very well.
Word up! I'm glad you feel this way, because I remember you mentioning that Zig felt that Strider had not aged well and I completely disagreed with his assessment.
In fact, being the dork that I am, I even took the time to find the old post in which I eloquently characterize Strider as "an epic, balls-out action slashin' jumping fiesta" (http://pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1150&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20). I stand by everything I said in that post. I have never played the PSX port, so my feelings are based on the arcade and genny versions.
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Steve, I just re-read your Strider rave. I honestly don't get it :) I may lose some fans by saying this, but I've always found Strider mediocre and boring - anything but the epic jump and slasher you made it out to be :). Heck, I even find Kaze Kiri a more satisfying jump and slasher, and it has a lot to be desired.
Just goes to show you - to each their own.
OD
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Steve, I just re-read your Strider rave. I honestly don't get it :) I may lose some fans by saying this, but I've always found Strider mediocre and boring - anything but the epic jump and slasher you made it out to be :). Heck, I even find Kaze Kiri a more satisfying jump and slasher, and it has a lot to be desired.
Just goes to show you - to each their own.
OD
I didn't like Strider back in the day on Genesis and like Ghouls N Ghosts, I still have never seen the real actual arcade. I agree that some of the themes are cool, but its the actual game that I'm not in love with.
But there are lots of other 'cool' games that I love even though I think the gameplay isn't very good. I guess that a similar game would be R-Type. You have to figure out the right pattern to cross sections at a time. I prefer more flexible gameplay.
A couple games I was actually reminded of when trying to clear a few extra cheap sections in the PSP version, is Shadowgate NES and Dragon's Lair.
But in those parts, once you solve the puzzle, it feels artificial to string together combos Mortal Kombat style as you watch the scene play out. I just didn't feel connected with the character as I do making a series of crucial platformer leaps with Megaman or Mario.
But like I said, I understand how most people love it, since I have my own "Striders".
Anyone else think that the last boss in Strider is the inspiration for the Death fight in Drac X?
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black tiger on the spectrum was a depressingly bad port. Waited ages for it, then when it finally came out it was 2 colour (this was near the end of the speccies life, so no excuses for that), screen proportions were all wrong and half the levels were missing.
shame it wasnt ever ported to the PCE (the arcade version that is, not the speccy one)
:(:(:(
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Wow. The PCE version of Strider is pretty bad. The colors are the worst aspect, in my opinion. They look worse than 98% of Genesis games... much worse. Strider himself is almost... yellow. Or orange. Be he should be white... like me! :) I think they use about 8 colors onscreen simultaneously out of a palette of maybe 16.
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Wow. The PCE version of Strider is pretty bad. The colors are the worst aspect, in my opinion. They look worse than 98% of Genesis games... much worse. Strider himself is almost... yellow. Or orange. Be he should be white... like me! :) I think they use about 8 colors onscreen simultaneously out of a palette of maybe 16.
Although they didn't make good use of color, I like the idea of a darker skinned Strider, but the PCE sprite isn't the best example. His green/grey accessories don't coordinate so well.
Maybe it was just your TV that made him look yellowy/orange? Because looking at screenshots taken by emulation, its actually the Genesis version that has an orange skinned Strider.
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ostrider1.gif)
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ostrider2.gif)
And it really is just bad choices in color, or untouched scans that don't look as nice as most PCE games, because Strider ACD actually has anywhere from 60 - 90 colors onscreen at any given time.
Which ironically, makes it one of the most colorful PCE games around. :wink:
Strider does suffer more than most games when played through regular hardware. It looks a lot better through S-Video or an emulator.
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My grip on Strider for PCE-AC:
Parallax aside;
Poor choice of palette (# of colors too) - worst case they should have the MD version gfx and best case would have been as close they could get in 9bit with a 9 bit palette. I've done some conversions from the arcade to PCE of Strider, so I know lot of it translate well. If this was an earlier port on old cdrom 2.0 or even SCD, then some things could have been forgiven - but based on the time this game was released and what was possible and done on the system by then - there is no excuse.
The explosions are yellow... wtf? They look nasty.
The sword just doesn't look right with two halves on the swing effect - one would've been a hell-of-lot better. There is also something slightly off about the animation - can't put my finger on it.
The difficulty - to hard for a crappy port.
I played the hell out of the original when it first came out - so much fun and lost money.
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Can you FRAP that on Magic Engine? I wanna see this for myself
The PCE screen is like almost there with the Master system version
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Can you FRAP that on Magic Engine? I wanna see this for myself
The PCE screen is like almost there with the Master system version
Wow, you really think so? I thought that crappy color choice aside, the ACD version looked the closest to the arcade, much more so than the MD version.
Especially when you view them in the same perspective, as they'd appear on a TV screen-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ostrider.jpg)
I think people are pretty biased against the ACD version (without even playing it) when all they've heard about it beforehand is bad.
If they'd used a decent pallete, the ACD version would look strikingly similar to the arcade, probably about as good as the Forgotten Worlds port.
The game doesn't look less than pretty for lack of detail. With a pallete fix and reduced flicker alone, no one would've made such a big deal over the rest of it (reported gameplay issues and 'OMG this guy attacks with his left hand first in the arcade' type stuff).
Strider doesn't emulate properly with ME. I'll record a clip through S-Video after I get back from running an errand(I've been planning to do up a 3 way split screen comparison for awhile now any way).
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If they'd used a decent pallete, the ACD version would look strikingly similar to the arcade, probably about as good as the Forgotten Worlds port.
I'll have to totally disagree with you on this one. I've always thought FW(Lost Worlds) was a very decent port with great use of the palette. I played PCE-AC Strider on the TV (two different ones) with the real hardware and it appears to be worst than the emu shots. What brings PCE-AC Strider down is the accumulative problems and in comparison to its release date. It's not GA, but its close.. too close (relatively speaking).
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If they'd used a decent pallete, the ACD version would look strikingly similar to the arcade, probably about as good as the Forgotten Worlds port.
I'll have to totally disagree with you on this one. I've always thought FW(Lost Worlds) was a very decent port with great use of the palette. I played PCE-AC Strider on the TV (two different ones) with the real hardware and it appears to be worst than the emu shots. What brings PCE-AC Strider down is the accumulative problems and in comparison to its release date. It's not GA, but its close.. too close (relatively speaking).
I also think that FW is amazing. What I meant was, Strider has lots of detail, but with different colors than the arcade. If you gave it the right colors, the still graphics would look very similar to the arcade. Just look at the arcade and ACD screenshots above, pretty much the only difference is the pallete.
As for Strider on TV, as I said earlier, it loses more than most games through composite, but it does look like it does through emulation when using S-Video.
Although it's probably scrolling at 60 fps, Strider ACD doesn't have perfectly smoothe scrolling. The pacing is off and it gives it a jerky look, similar to GA(from my memory), but not as bad. Again, fixing this one problem would make a big difference, but the other problems would still drag it down.
I think its very far from close to GA. Strider actually uses the arcade graphics and keeps everything reasonable proportionate and full screen.
Golden Axe is severely letterboxed, is completely redrawn in a bad way(unlike the early Capcom Genesis ports) with small sprites and jerky scrolling(from what I remember). Plus the sfx in GA are are fewer and not as good.
Here's a video clip of the first Stage of Strider ACD-
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/strideracd1.avi
Also, as I suspected, Strider does have yellow skin on the Bonus Stage, but the real Stage 2 sprite is the same as thev Stage 1 sprite.
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So much to respond to, so little time. Wait no, I actually have a lot of time.
#1 - My TurboGrafx-16 is hooked up via component video and I have the ability to get s-video from it as well (which isn't as good as component, of course). My TV is set up the best it can be and the HUE is correct. Anyway the color of Strider himself didn't really bother me until the second stage, the desert scene. Play up to there. It looks vomit-inducing.
#2 - Those Strider comparison pics are all much too skinny. For the correct aspect ratio, each picture should be sized to 320x240. The full-sized picture with all four of them should be 640x480. So they all look wrong to me and definitely not how they appear on my screen.
#4 - Using all of my superpowers, I can probably record Strider into a video using real hardware. Should I?
Damn, I forgot #3. Oh wait... I remember!
#3 - ACD Strider is really slow and floaty. Although removing the flicker and using a better color palette would definitely have helped, it still would have not played like the arcade in that it just felt wrong.
PS - Strider scrolls at 30fps.
PSS - Golden Axe is not a Capcom game.
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So much to respond to, so little time. Wait no, I actually have a lot of time.
#1 - My TurboGrafx-16 is hooked up via component video and I have the ability to get s-video from it as well (which isn't as good as component, of course). My TV is set up the best it can be and the HUE is correct. Anyway the color of Strider himself didn't really bother me until the second stage, the desert scene. Play up to there. It looks vomit-inducing.
#2 - Those Strider comparison pics are all much too skinny. For the correct aspect ratio, each picture should be sized to 320x240. The full-sized picture with all four of them should be 640x480. So they all look wrong to me and definitely not how they appear on my screen.
#4 - Using all of my superpowers, I can probably record Strider into a video using real hardware. Should I?
Damn, I forgot #3. Oh wait... I remember!
#3 - ACD Strider is really slow and floaty. Although removing the flicker and using a better color palette would definitely have helped, it still would have not played like the arcade in that it just felt wrong.
PS - Strider scrolls at 30fps.
PSS - Golden Axe is not a Capcom game.
Here ya go-
(http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/img/ostrider2.jpg)
My point with the same sized screenshots is it shows how close the ACD was modeled after the arcade. When you look at the screenshots in different resolutions, its harder to tell.
Strider doesn't look nearly as choppy as WBIII SMS, maybe that game uses a weird pacing for its scrolling.
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Wonder Boy 3 is 30fps constant as proven before. Strider looks exactly the same to me (scrolling wise... color wise Wonder Boy 3 blows ACD Strider away).
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Wonder Boy 3 is 30fps constant as proven before. Strider looks exactly the same to me (scrolling wise... color wise Wonder Boy 3 blows ACD Strider away).
Thats what I said, but scrolling is animation. If you place the frames wrong, or not as well as they should be for the speed of scrolling/animation, you get an unnatural movement.
The frame rate is only the number of frames used within a particular period of time.
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I think I understand what you are saying... as if (for example) a game screen moved two pixels adjacent on one screen update, then three pixels the next update, then back to two, then three etc etc etc.
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I think I understand what you are saying... as if (for example) a game screen moved two pixels adjacent on one screen update, then three pixels the next update, then back to two, then three etc etc etc.
Some games move at 60fps, but don't look right. I think that that was what I was really noticing in games(that I mentioned on sega-16) that didn't move smoothely, -which I once suspected to use lower frame rates.
In so-called "classical" animation (handrawn), scrolling(camera moves/panning) is just used in increments of millimetres on the peg bar that holds one layer of drawings. The peg bars look like rulers because of this.
When you look at animation film school projects, the scrolling usually doesn't look right because although they're animating at a consistant rate, the increments are the right size for the speed.
I imagine that most Genesis games look so smoothe, because a lot of developers used some kinds of default hardware scrolling routines or something.
I can see how anytime a developer used a custom scroll in a game, that it wouldn't be quite perfect, since humans aren't perfect(and not all programmers are animators).
This is why you can see the scrolling kind of inch along in a lot of PCE CD cinemas. Its also why so many 32-bit 3D animations looked choppy in games with solid frame rates, because they were animated frame by frame 'by hand'.
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30fps scrolling means the screen is not updated/repositioned until every other frame. Joe, you should already know being in video/film production. I didn't notice this choppiness in the PCE-AC port, but I'll have to take a closer look.
Btw, the gfx of the PCE-AC port might be uncompressed(hint-hint, wink-wink,nudge-nudge) and locating the palette data in the ISO shouldn't be to hard by using save states as a reference/lookup.
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Of course I know that (I'm not sure if your comment was meant to educate me or not). I explained it with a 60fps Quicktime video awhile back.
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Nah, it was more to exclude you. I remember you mention something about a shoot/film shoot and experience with DV/HD camera setups - so I figured you have it covered.
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PCE Strider also has problems with the camera that also makes the scrolling seem weird. Basically, the camera moves left or right too much when you change directions. You can test it out just by jumping and pressing left and right repeatedly. It pretty much happens in all areas where the stage can scroll either left or right (so almost everywhere).
Probably the most noticeable effect of this weirdo scrolling is when you jump in one direction and attack in the opposite direction.
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I really hate weird camera handlers. It's like coders back then weren't totally familiar with scroll threshholds.
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There's either a hidden mini game or partial of another game inside the data track of Strider. There is also a "visual selector" area and a comic drawn bmp in the iso (warning screen maybe?).
(http://pcedev.net/pics/strider/bmp1.png)
(http://pcedev.net/pics/strider/bmp2.png)
(http://pcedev.net/pics/strider/bmp4.png)
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Looks like these pictures come from a pachinko game (I couldn't tell which one though).
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How do they look like a pachinko game? They look like overworld map and characters + larger characters(last pic) - to me.
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Cool find! Did you find the supposed 2nd extra stage in there somewhere too? :)
Actually, Strider's warning screen is drawn like a comic book page. I thought it was pretty funny.
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That second picture looks like a King of the Monsters game.
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just feel like to play that game tonight again. put it away in the box a long time ago and didn't think about playing it again, but now while reading all those comments.. :lol:
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Hmm, with all this extracting of data from the ACD Strider, maybe we could work on a remake of the NES Strider, that would rock!(hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean? say no more!)
BTW, some things that always puzzle me, is why was the little cinema's music (after beating a boss), in ADPCM, rather then redbook? The redbook is on the cd, why bother putting it in redbook, if you're just going to play an ADPCM version of it. I also wondered why his sword never got longer in this version, have something to do with sprite handling, or were they just lazy? And does the in game action NEED to pause, to load a new track?
I think that's all my questions I've had all these years, there might be more, but, those come to mind right away.
Oh, & some of that stuff, does remind me of pachinko for some reason.
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hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean? say no more!)
Terry Jones?
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Did you find the supposed 2nd extra stage in there somewhere too? :)
I didn't know there was supposed to be a second extra stage. I could look around some more - but most of the graphics are compressed - not sure why since it's an Arcade card game. Maybe it was originally a SCD project. The first level appears to be uncompressed though unless it's just unused graphics. Do you have any info on the 2nd extra stage?
I also wondered why his sword never got longer in this version, have something to do with sprite handling, or were they just lazy?
I thought it did (in the PCE-AC version).
BTW, some things that always puzzle me, is why was the little cinema's music (after beating a boss), in ADPCM, rather then redbook? The redbook is on the cd, why bother putting it in redbook, if you're just going to play an ADPCM version of it.
Maybe the original cinemas were limited in animation and they decided to switch to streaming data/audio instead for more animation (similar to FMV), but left the audio tracks in the project/CD.
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Did you find the supposed 2nd extra stage in there somewhere too? :)
I didn't know there was supposed to be a second extra stage. I could look around some more - but most of the graphics are compressed - not sure why since it's an Arcade card game. Maybe it was originally a SCD project. The first level appears to be uncompressed though unless it's just unused graphics. Do you have any info on the 2nd extra stage?
I also wondered why his sword never got longer in this version, have something to do with sprite handling, or were they just lazy?
I thought it did (in the PCE-AC version).
BTW, some things that always puzzle me, is why was the little cinema's music (after beating a boss), in ADPCM, rather then redbook? The redbook is on the cd, why bother putting it in redbook, if you're just going to play an ADPCM version of it.
Maybe the original cinemas were limited in animation and they decided to switch to streaming data/audio instead for more animation (similar to FMV), but left the audio tracks in the project/CD.
There was supposed to be a 2nd bonus stage, infact, I think my original Game Informer, where they rated the game, said there specifically were 2! Maybe there's some leftovers of that hidden stage somewhere.
As for the sword, it didn't seem to get longer IMO, alteast, not as much as the Genny version.
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How do they look like a pachinko game? They look like overworld map and characters + larger characters(last pic) - to me.
Pachiokun game series, that are pachinko games, have RPG aspects, so you have to speak to people to know which pachinko parlour you're supposed to go to and, of course, as in any RPG, Pachiokun, the main character, as to go across town to find the right pachinko parlour.
These pics are definitely from one of the Pachiokun game series, I'm 200% sure.
Edit : now I can even tell you that the pics are from Pachiokun Maboroshi No Densetsu (http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=images)
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hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean? say no more!)
Terry Jones?
Eric Idle.
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hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean? say no more!)
Terry Jones?
Eric Idle.
Exactly :D
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How do they look like a pachinko game? They look like overworld map and characters + larger characters(last pic) - to me.
The bottom image looks like pachio-kun (the ball character at the top)
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How do they look like a pachinko game? They look like overworld map and characters + larger characters(last pic) - to me.
Pachiokun game series, that are pachinko games, have RPG aspects, so you have to speak to people to know which pachinko parlour you're supposed to go to and, of course, as in any RPG, Pachiokun, the main character, as to go across town to find the right pachinko parlour.
These pics are definitely from one of the Pachiokun game series, I'm 200% sure.
Edit : now I can even tell you that the pics are from Pachiokun Maboroshi No Densetsu (http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=images)
Have you read my post :lol: ?
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hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean? say no more!)
Terry Jones?
Eric Idle.
Exactly :D
oh shame on me..of course it was eric which stressed terry in the bar and not otherwise :lol:
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Did you find the supposed 2nd extra stage in there somewhere too? :)
I didn't know there was supposed to be a second extra stage. I could look around some more - but most of the graphics are compressed - not sure why since it's an Arcade card game. Maybe it was originally a SCD project. The first level appears to be uncompressed though unless it's just unused graphics. Do you have any info on the 2nd extra stage?
IIRC, there were only one or two pics of the 2nd extra stage. I'll have dig thru my mags to see if I can find them.
Strider went thru many format changes over the years. Of course it started out as a SGX Hucard, then changed to SCD and finally ACD. I think at one point there was talk of a SGX/PCE hybrid card version. Actually, I think somebody posted a scan of a PCE mag article talking about the hybrid card. I'm guessing once NEC Ave dropped SGX support, they probably were working with SCD hardware for most of the project.
I also wondered why his sword never got longer in this version, have something to do with sprite handling, or were they just lazy?
I thought it did (in the PCE-AC version).
It does get longer, but it looks like crap IMO. Basically, the full blade "slash" graphic gets bigger, but the intermediate "half slash" graphics are the normal size. So when you get that sword power up, that one frame is bigger and doesn't match up with the other frames.
Also, I noticed that Hiryu is missing some animation frames. Nothing major, but it might be another clue that ACD support was tacked on but not really utilized. Not only that, the jumping frames (not somersaut) are reversed from the arcade! I always knew there was something funny about that but didn't notice it until I played the arcade version recently.
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How do they look like a pachinko game? They look like overworld map and characters + larger characters(last pic) - to me.
Pachiokun game series, that are pachinko games, have RPG aspects, so you have to speak to people to know which pachinko parlour you're supposed to go to and, of course, as in any RPG, Pachiokun, the main character, as to go across town to find the right pachinko parlour.
These pics are definitely from one of the Pachiokun game series, I'm 200% sure.
Edit : now I can even tell you that the pics are from Pachiokun Maboroshi No Densetsu (http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=images)
Awesome, you nailed it! I just checked out the off line PCE catalog and it has the same tiles.
This is important as the date of that game is 1991. Often companies will re-use projects as a starting point and change from there, but a lot of times there are left over code and graphics in the data track. Last Alert has both Valis II and Cosmic Fantasy I tiles and sprites through out the ISO.
So in other words, this game probably started developement from 90-91 as an old CD or SCD format. This would explain the use of compression on the tiles and enemy sprites. The weird thing is that Pachiokun is not published by NEC AVE - unless they had help from NEC or Coconuts was the developer who started the Strider CD project.
Also; some of the graphics look more than just redrawn. The gorilla in the second stage has scaling artifacts on him - the kind you get from doing a "nearest neighbor" down size instead of a redrawn from scratch(like the Gen version). If it did start out as a SGX game, then it probably used the 352(376)x224 res mode like GnG and they rescaled the graphics for 256(288)x224 mode res. If it were on the SGX it would have probably used the 3bit(8color) mode (for storage) for tiles and sprites like GnG appears to do instead of the native 4bit(16color) format.
Edit: looking through the data/sprite blocks - it appears to be 7 levels - is this correct?