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NEC PC-Engine/SuperGrafx => PC Engine/SuperGrafx Discussion => Topic started by: lukester on October 14, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
Title: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: lukester on October 14, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
These threads are always fun
Namco made a whole bunch of fun HuCards, but there were also some generic stinkers! Which will come out on top?
My picks are
Galaga 88 Splatterhouse Samurai Ghost
I do have a soft spot for Bravoman but it just isn't good enough
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 14, 2017, 04:01:43 PM
I'm not a big fan of Namco in general, but I did enjoy Valkyrie no Densetsu quite a bit! It's the closest thing to Etoile Princesse that I know on the PC engine, even if it's not quite as good as that, but it's still pretty fun! Good music too, also, gotta love those scaling sprites ;3
My other two picks were Samurai Ghost and Bravoman, which I tend to think of as guilty pleasures, but what probably does it for me in them is the parallax scrolling, I mean seriously those games tried SO hard to do parallax I can't help but respect it! And it doesn't look THAT bad right? I mean, at least Samurai Ghost is better than Ernest Evans...
Also, I know Splatterhouse is a classic and all, but it just didn't quite do it for me... Sorry ^^';
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Black Tiger on October 14, 2017, 07:18:24 PM
Final Lap Twin Pac Land Galaga '90
Final Lap Twin would "go for" $300+ today if it had been released by Nintendo for SNES. But unlike Earthbound, it's actually a great game (the RPG mode at least). The arcade mode is also fun and good for playing on the Express/GT.
Pac Land and especially Galaga '90 are timeless classics.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 14, 2017, 07:47:22 PM
But unlike Earthbound, it's actually a great game (the RPG mode at least).
Umm, I respectfully disagree, and I don't really see the comparison...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: gojira1954 on October 14, 2017, 09:36:35 PM
galaga '88 splatterhouse marchen maze
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: cabbage on October 14, 2017, 10:57:32 PM
Difficult to choose only three, but I went with Final Lap Twin, Valkyrie no Densetsu, and Yokai Dochuki. Which ones are the "generic stinkers?"
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Digi.k on October 15, 2017, 12:05:12 AM
Valkyrie no Densetsu and Tower of Druaga because they have a good chunk of satifying gaming to them.
Genpei toumaden; out of all their arcade ports for the pc engine this one is almost arcade perfect
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: esteban on October 15, 2017, 01:06:32 AM
Jesus. Picking only three.
(Damn...)
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: turboswimbz on October 15, 2017, 01:38:56 PM
FINAL LAP TWINN = OH SO GUT
WONDA MOMO = DA BOMBB - I just like this silly game.
DRAGON SPIRT = FUN FUN FUN FUN
I also like galaga, world court tennis and Splatterhouse.
Also no world court Tennis = fail
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 15, 2017, 05:34:55 PM
1: Dragon Spirit (I'm amazed how underrated this game is among PCE enthusiasts) <1: Splatterhouse Galaga 88 Final Blaster Final Lap Valkyrie Dragon Saber
Namco made so much good stuff for the PCE, and their box art was tops as well.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Necromancer on October 16, 2017, 03:29:49 AM
My votes went to Splatterhouse and Galaga (the Namco games I've played and loved the most) and to Wonder Momo because I like to role play that I'm the perv trying to get an upskirt pantsu shot.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 16, 2017, 05:05:54 AM
why can't I pick Wonder Momo 3 times?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: exodus on October 16, 2017, 07:04:24 AM
Fun to see peoples' different choices! I went with: Splatterhouse (I love it - I prefer it to the arcade version too, but probably because I played it first. Also I realized I've played this game so many times that when my girlfriend was playing it I was actually able to give her lots of tips, haha)
Samurai Ghost (I just like the multi-directional sword and super weird vibe)
Youkai Douchuuki (what a cool and weird game with so many small arcane variants to what you can do - I want to know what cabbage things of it, since you chose it too!)
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: seieienbu on October 16, 2017, 08:55:05 AM
I picked Splatterhouse, Valkyrie Densetsu, and Youkai Dochuki.
Honorable mention would go to Dragon Spirit, Galaga 88, and Final Lap Twin.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Digi.k on October 16, 2017, 11:18:55 AM
Youkai Douchuuki (what a cool and weird game with so many small arcane variants to what you can do)
I was thinking about choosing Yokai too since it was this game that sold me on getting the pc engine. I love the graphics and audio of this game and it's so weird. My only problem today is that I always have to disconnect any multi player adapter before playing and this also involves the wireless receiver as it stops the game from booting up.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Winniez on October 16, 2017, 02:09:14 PM
Gotta go with the Galaga 88, but they did plenty of good quality Hucards. And from the collecting point of view I love how uniform the spines look.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: johnnykonami on October 17, 2017, 06:06:41 AM
Ordyne, Splatterhouse and Galaga 88 for me. A 4th would probably be Genpei Toumaden.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: exodus on October 17, 2017, 06:20:51 AM
I was thinking about choosing Yokai too since it was this game that sold me on getting the pc engine. I love the graphics and audio of this game and it's so weird. My only problem today is that I always have to disconnect any multi player adapter before playing and this also involves the wireless receiver as it stops the game from booting up.
it's real weird! It feels like there are tons of possibilities in terms of what you can do, even though it's not true - the feeling is there! that's weird about the multiplayer adapter thing! I wonder why that would be...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 23, 2017, 06:16:33 AM
Well, there do at least seem to be some strong trends. Galaga and Splatterhouse are definitely out in the lead.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: crazydean on October 23, 2017, 07:29:13 AM
I didn't vote because I haven't played a lot of these games.
Galaga is a surprise, though. Not that it's a bad game, but it's just outdated. Do you guys who like this game think it's good for a Namco game or that it's a top shooter on the system?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: lukester on October 23, 2017, 08:56:45 AM
I didn't vote because I haven't played a lot of these games.
Galaga is a surprise, though. Not that it's a bad game, but it's just outdated. Do you guys who like this game think it's good for a Namco game or that it's a top shooter on the system?
Galaga 88 isn't a port, it's an upgraded sequel with lots of new enemy types, branching levels, scrolling areas, and even boss fights. Yet, it is still just as accessible, if not more so, than the original. It's not a gimmicky piece of garbage like Gaplus.
It's quite a challenge to get all 4 route endings, and then attempting Hard Mode. The triple ship is also a massive gamechanger.
Well up there with the best of them.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: exodus on October 23, 2017, 08:59:21 AM
I'm also surprised by galaga. It feels pretty dated to me even in its 88 version.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Black Tiger on October 23, 2017, 10:32:59 AM
I didn't vote because I haven't played a lot of these games.
Galaga is a surprise, though. Not that it's a bad game, but it's just outdated. Do you guys who like this game think it's good for a Namco game or that it's a top shooter on the system?
Dated can only be a compliment with the way gaming was headed. :)
But it's seriously one of the better games of all time and solid port of a great expanded update.
I don't think Namcot did a good job on the technical side with most of their PCE games. Galaga '88/90 is timeless though.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Punch on October 23, 2017, 10:51:26 AM
Seeing everyone agreeing with Galaga 90 being a great Namco game feels good.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: turboswimbz on October 23, 2017, 11:58:19 AM
I honestly think Galga is one of the better shooters/game on the system.
Yeah, it's a dated arcade port, but that's what makes it charming. (can't you make this argument about half the library anyway?) It's simple, fun, challenging but not frustrating and different from most if not all the other games on the system. What more could you want?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 23, 2017, 03:43:45 PM
Galaga 88 isn't a port, it's an upgraded sequel with lots of new enemy types, branching levels, scrolling areas, and even boss fights. Yet, it is still just as accessible, if not more so, than the original. It's not a gimmicky piece of garbage like Gaplus.
It's quite a challenge to get all 4 route endings, and then attempting Hard Mode. The triple ship is also a massive gamechanger.
Well up there with the best of them.
Damn, I gotta give that game another shot! I've always dismissed it because it looked rather unimpressive and didn't have music at first... I think being unable to move my ship vertically also turned me off of it a little more...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: gilbert on October 23, 2017, 08:09:29 PM
Never owned any Namco game so I cannot state any favourite ones.
I think one problem is that Namco only produced games for the system in its early years and they just withdrew before even developing CD games. Early games (not just Namco ones) on the system were understandably primitive and couldn't use the system to its better potential. Namco's games were usually arcade ports that at first glimpse looked close enough to the arcade originals, but when examined in detail suffered from a lot of sacrifices in nearly every department. That early Hucards were usually small sized didn't help (It was advertised that games could go up to 4 or 8 Mbit right from the beginning, but the truth was early titles couldn't even exceed 2Mbit, which was one reason why R-Type was released in two parts, and this was at a time that even Famicom and SMS titles started to get bigger). They're still good games in their own rights, just not up to the standard of the originals that they're going to emulate.
One example was Dragon Spirit. It looked good and sounded good though a number of stuff were cut, such as the opening cutscene and stages. (I still find this a good conversion, though many people disagree.) The Famicom version looked like a pile of ... er... things but included a lot of original features and cutscenes (even extra ones) to make it enjoyable. This somehow made the PCE version looked barebones in comparison.
Another example was Youkai Douchuuki. The PCE version looked decent, but still, was a scaled down conversion. The Famicom version, however, was greatly expanded even compared to the Arcade version and it looked and sounded great considering the system's limitation.
I think in many cases the developers could try harder, as there were many missed opportunities.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 26, 2017, 07:43:17 AM
I didn't vote because I haven't played a lot of these games.
Galaga is a surprise, though. Not that it's a bad game, but it's just outdated. Do you guys who like this game think it's good for a Namco game or that it's a top shooter on the system?
The original Galaga will never be outdated in my eyes, and Galaga 88/90 is just an expansion of that same formula.
With that said, I feel the original Galaga is the better game, as it's more straightforward, which seems to work better with this type of game.
I understand feeling this way about stuff like Space Invaders, but Galaga, come on! You must be a millenial, post generation X'er, right?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 26, 2017, 07:55:24 AM
Damn, I gotta give that game another shot! I've always dismissed it because it looked rather unimpressive and didn't have music at first... I think being unable to move my ship vertically also turned me off of it a little more...
Are you turned off by Mega Man's inability to duck or shoot up? If not, then you should be able to appreciate the constraints the developers imposed (even if by forced design) upon you as the player, for the sake of challenge and level design.
The original Galaga is a masterpiece of design. Galaga 88/90 is great as well.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: crazydean on October 26, 2017, 09:30:37 AM
I didn't vote because I haven't played a lot of these games.
Galaga is a surprise, though. Not that it's a bad game, but it's just outdated. Do you guys who like this game think it's good for a Namco game or that it's a top shooter on the system?
The original Galaga will never be outdated in my eyes, and Galaga 88/90 is just an expansion of that same formula.
With that said, I feel the original Galaga is the better game, as it's more straightforward, which seems to work better with this type of game.
I understand feeling this way about stuff like Space Invaders, but Galaga, come on! You must be a millenial, post generation X'er, right?
I was born in '88. So, Galaga has always been around, and I still see it as a rehash of an older game. Namco in particular is guilty of this as they are the ones putting out the same old "arcade collection" generation after generation.
The NES has also been around my whole life, and I am able to find many of its titles interesting and fun. For example, Blaster Master and Bionic Commando are both old, yet they don't feel dated to me.
I've only been a PCE/Turbo fan for about two years, and didn't play many shooters before then. However, in that time, I have played several on this system and found Galaga 88 to be about as plain Jane as the genre can get. The game is solid and challenging, but there's just nothing there that makes me want to come back.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 26, 2017, 01:30:49 PM
Are you turned off by Mega Man's inability to duck or shoot up?
Yes! But to be honest, I'm turned off by almost everything in Mega Man, let's just say I'm not a big fan =w='; Mega Man X on the other hand, that's a gaming masterpiece if I ever saw one ;3 Yeah, I know you can also not shoot up or duck in that game, but that's more than made up for with your added mobility, being able to dash and wall-jump changes everything and makes the game a lot more dynamic and fast-paced! Also, the music in Mega Man X wipes the floor with regular old NES Mega Man music, which I think is overdone as hell, but I also think Mega Man 7's music is way better than NES Mega Man music so... I guess Capcom was just better at making music on the SNES...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 26, 2017, 02:08:51 PM
Are you turned off by Mega Man's inability to duck or shoot up?
Yes! But to be honest, I'm turned off by almost everything in Mega Man, let's just say I'm not a big fan =w='; Mega Man X on the other hand, that's a gaming masterpiece if I ever saw one ;3 Yeah, I know you can also not shoot up or duck in that game, but that's more than made up for with your added mobility, being able to dash and wall-jump changes everything and makes the game a lot more dynamic and fast-paced! Also, the music in Mega Man X wipes the floor with regular old NES Mega Man music, which I think is overdone as hell, but I also think Mega Man 7's music is way better than NES Mega Man music so... I guess Capcom was just better at making music on the SNES...
We definitely have different tastes in regards to music and sound chip sound, as I think most Capcom music on the SNES sounds awful and lacks teeth. I also love pretty much all Mega Man's in the NES, as well as the NES's overall sound when in good hands, which more often than not, Capcom was. To me, the SNES is only good for orchestral type stuff that Square was great as.
At least we can agree that Mega Man X is a masterpiece, particularly the first one. That is one of my go to games that I never get tired of. But I can say the same thing about Mega Man 2, 4 and 6...oh, and Galaga (among many others)!
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 26, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
I was born in '88. So, Galaga has always been around, and I still see it as a rehash of an older game. Namco in particular is guilty of this as they are the ones putting out the same old "arcade collection" generation after generation.
The NES has also been around my whole life, and I am able to find many of its titles interesting and fun. For example, Blaster Master and Bionic Commando are both old, yet they don't feel dated to me.
I've only been a PCE/Turbo fan for about two years, and didn't play many shooters before then. However, in that time, I have played several on this system and found Galaga 88 to be about as plain Jane as the genre can get. The game is solid and challenging, but there's just nothing there that makes me want to come back.
How do you feel about pre-NES arcade games in general? Stuff like Robotron 2084, Defender, Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong? Do you find those too plain jane as well?
Just wondering if the issue is not so much graphics but the fact that the allure of these games is mainly score chasing, something that was kind of lost, at least as the main gameplay hook, once the NES came along.
And yeah, Bionic Commando is another Capcom masterpiece, at least the NES version. Blaster Master has great music, but I've never really enjoyed that game much, as I always get bored about halfway through. Just seems too repetitive.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 26, 2017, 03:48:48 PM
We definitely have different tastes in regards to music and sound chip sound, as I think most Capcom music on the SNES sounds awful and lacks teeth. I also love pretty much all Mega Man's in the NES, as well as the NES's overall sound when in good hands, which more often than not, Capcom was. To me, the SNES is only good for orchestral type stuff that Square was great as.
At least we can agree that Mega Man X is a masterpiece, particularly the first one. That is one of my go to games that I never get tired of. But I can say the same thing about Mega Man 2, 4 and 6...oh, and Galaga (among many others)!
That's fine... Personally, I'm not very fond of Capcom's NES music, I think Hudson, Konami, Natsume and especially Sunsoft did a much better job than them handling the system's soundchip, also Tim Follin, but yeah, I understand and respect that a lot of people love Capcom's NES sound...
The Mega Man games are perfectly fine too, it's just that they don't quite do it for me, I'll pick Batman, Shatterhand, Castlevania and Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu over Mega Man any day...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: crazydean on October 26, 2017, 11:33:43 PM
I was born in '88. So, Galaga has always been around, and I still see it as a rehash of an older game. Namco in particular is guilty of this as they are the ones putting out the same old "arcade collection" generation after generation.
The NES has also been around my whole life, and I am able to find many of its titles interesting and fun. For example, Blaster Master and Bionic Commando are both old, yet they don't feel dated to me.
I've only been a PCE/Turbo fan for about two years, and didn't play many shooters before then. However, in that time, I have played several on this system and found Galaga 88 to be about as plain Jane as the genre can get. The game is solid and challenging, but there's just nothing there that makes me want to come back.
How do you feel about pre-NES arcade games in general? Stuff like Robotron 2084, Defender, Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong? Do you find those too plain jane as well?
Just wondering if the issue is not so much graphics but the fact that the allure of these games is mainly score chasing, something that was kind of lost, at least as the main gameplay hook, once the NES came along.
And yeah, Bionic Commando is another Capcom masterpiece, at least the NES version. Blaster Master has great music, but I've never really enjoyed that game much, as I always get bored about halfway through. Just seems too repetitive.
There's a definite divide between pre and post-NES, and I'd say that there are few games I like which came prior. However, I can appreciate the design of games for their era, like the ones you mentioned. Even though I don't enjoy playing most score-based games.
Had Galaga '88 been an early release on the Famicom, I would be more appreciative. But, it came out the same year as R-Type on PCE. To me, it's clear that Namco was still focused on the past.
A game series needs to grow and struggle to stay relevant. Anyone who likes the NES, will likely place Super Mario Bros 3 in their top 5 games. While the first SMB was a great game, too, Nintendo added a ton of new features for that release. On the other hand, Galaga '88 didn't do enough to update the gameplay.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Black Tiger on October 27, 2017, 12:54:33 AM
I was born in '88. So, Galaga has always been around, and I still see it as a rehash of an older game. Namco in particular is guilty of this as they are the ones putting out the same old "arcade collection" generation after generation.
The NES has also been around my whole life, and I am able to find many of its titles interesting and fun. For example, Blaster Master and Bionic Commando are both old, yet they don't feel dated to me.
I've only been a PCE/Turbo fan for about two years, and didn't play many shooters before then. However, in that time, I have played several on this system and found Galaga 88 to be about as plain Jane as the genre can get. The game is solid and challenging, but there's just nothing there that makes me want to come back.
How do you feel about pre-NES arcade games in general? Stuff like Robotron 2084, Defender, Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong? Do you find those too plain jane as well?
Just wondering if the issue is not so much graphics but the fact that the allure of these games is mainly score chasing, something that was kind of lost, at least as the main gameplay hook, once the NES came along.
And yeah, Bionic Commando is another Capcom masterpiece, at least the NES version. Blaster Master has great music, but I've never really enjoyed that game much, as I always get bored about halfway through. Just seems too repetitive.
There's a definite divide between pre and post-NES, and I'd say that there are few games I like which came prior. However, I can appreciate the design of games for their era, like the ones you mentioned. Even though I don't enjoy playing most score-based games.
Had Galaga '88 been an early release on the Famicom, I would be more appreciative. But, it came out the same year as R-Type on PCE. To me, it's clear that Namco was still focused on the past.
A game series needs to grow and struggle to stay relevant. Anyone who likes the NES, will likely place Super Mario Bros 3 in their top 5 games. While the first SMB was a great game, too, Nintendo added a ton of new features for that release. On the other hand, Galaga '88 didn't do enough to update the gameplay.
This might make some sense if you weren't talking about the masses of people enjoying these games decades later while dismissing a game for not being different enough than a game released years earlier.
The SMB3 comparison is particularly hilarious, since that 8-bit looking and sounding game was released a year after R-Type and Galaga '88. :P
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 27, 2017, 05:48:29 AM
There's a definite divide between pre and post-NES, and I'd say that there are few games I like which came prior. However, I can appreciate the design of games for their era, like the ones you mentioned. Even though I don't enjoy playing most score-based games.
Had Galaga '88 been an early release on the Famicom, I would be more appreciative. But, it came out the same year as R-Type on PCE. To me, it's clear that Namco was still focused on the past.
A game series needs to grow and struggle to stay relevant. Anyone who likes the NES, will likely place Super Mario Bros 3 in their top 5 games. While the first SMB was a great game, too, Nintendo added a ton of new features for that release. On the other hand, Galaga '88 didn't do enough to update the gameplay.
This might make some sense if you weren't talking about the masses of people enjoying these games decades later while dismissing a game for not being different enough than a game released years earlier.
Ha, that is true, not to mention that Galaga and its ilk keeps getting re-released, remade, copied, etc., and still gets played or at least fondly remembered. Then you have games like Robotron, which has spawned entire an entire subgenre, and copycat games with only graphical differences are still getting played by the masses.
But I think the main divider is whether you are into score chasing or not. Most modern games, either through achievements or score, place this goal in addition to the end game as a motivating factor to the gamer. This is smart in the developer's part, as it ensures their games have a wider audience by appeasing to different tastes.
Finally, as a side note, I would not place SMB3 in my top 5 NES games. Hell, I'm not sure it would be top 10. In fact, I think the original SMB is the better game; more concise, infinitely playable and approachable, and every single level is expertly crafted around it's obstacle course philosophy. SMB 3 is just more of the same, but it diluted that formula too much for me, so it's more of an adventure than an arcade action experience, drawing out the action among all the map hopping and mini games. Still a great game, but I just love the purity and perfect level design of the original, and it's the one I always go back to when I want to romp through the mushroom kingdom, old school style.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 27, 2017, 06:39:00 AM
That's fine... Personally, I'm not very fond of Capcom's NES music, I think Hudson, Konami, Natsume and especially Sunsoft did a much better job than them handling the system's soundchip, also Tim Follin, but yeah, I understand and respect that a lot of people love Capcom's NES sound...
Retro Game Audio did a bit on Capcom's NES era audio. Capcom always focused solely on composition and did very little custom programming and manipulation with the NES sound hardware. So while a lot of Capcom's tunes sound pretty good, they never used the sample channel for bass or percussion or used any of the other neat tricks companies like Konami, Natsume, and Sunsoft did. Basically, if a Capcom track sounds good, it's because it was well composed and used very careful instrument selection and that's it.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 27, 2017, 06:40:29 AM
As for Galaga 88/90, it's definitely not simply a rehash of Galaga. There are definitely some classic Galaga-style levels, but there are also scrolling levels and bosses. I think it's an artful and well-thought advancement of the original Galaga model, unlike some of what they tried with Pac-Man over the same time span.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on October 27, 2017, 06:45:54 AM
That's fine... Personally, I'm not very fond of Capcom's NES music, I think Hudson, Konami, Natsume and especially Sunsoft did a much better job than them handling the system's soundchip, also Tim Follin, but yeah, I understand and respect that a lot of people love Capcom's NES sound...
Retro Game Audio did a bit on Capcom's NES era audio. Capcom always focused solely on composition and did very little custom programming and manipulation with the NES sound hardware. So while a lot of Capcom's tunes sound pretty good, they never used the sample channel for bass or percussion or used any of the other neat tricks companies like Konami, Natsume, and Sunsoft did. Basically, if a Capcom track sounds good, it's because it was well composed and used very careful instrument selection and that's it.
That makes sense. I've always found Capcom's stuff in SNES to be well composed, but lacking in instrument selection. From what I understand (which is not a lot from a technical standpoint), SNES uses samples as opposed to NES actually using the chip, so maybe Capcom should have just sampled the NES chip and called it a day. :D
I also like Konami and Hudson stuff, and Sunsoft to a lesser degree in NES. I think Follin's Solstice's opening tune is masterful, but that game pisses me off so much, the in game music eventually grates, so I find it hard to appreciate.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 27, 2017, 07:59:32 AM
It seems to me that while the NES sound hardware was very well utilized by some developers, with all sorts of awesome tricks to exploit all its capabilities, the PCE's sound capabilities are still somewhat open to further exploration and exploitation. The CD came too soon for the little Engine that could, meaning people jumped to Redbook (to great effect) and stopped exploring the wavetable goodness.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Gypsy on October 27, 2017, 08:20:11 AM
As for Galaga 88/90, it's definitely not simply a rehash of Galaga. There are definitely some classic Galaga-style levels, but there are also scrolling levels and bosses. I think it's an artful and well-thought advancement of the original Galaga model, unlike some of what they tried with Pac-Man over the same time span.
Concur. It's pretty different. I will play Galaga 88 randomly, and it's actually pretty beatable. I have no desire to play the original Galaga.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: gojira1954 on October 27, 2017, 09:23:23 AM
As for Galaga 88/90, it's definitely not simply a rehash of Galaga. There are definitely some classic Galaga-style levels, but there are also scrolling levels and bosses. I think it's an artful and well-thought advancement of the original Galaga model, unlike some of what they tried with Pac-Man over the same time span.
Concur. It's pretty different. I will play Galaga 88 randomly, and it's actually pretty beatable. I have no desire to play the original Galaga.
Me too galaga 88 is one game that I always go back to on the pce, one of my top 5 games on the system. In my opinion it plays better than the arcade version, graphics have taken a minor hit in the conversion but it plays really evenly and the transition from tate to yoko is spot on
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 27, 2017, 02:27:56 PM
Retro Game Audio did a bit on Capcom's NES era audio. Capcom always focused solely on composition and did very little custom programming and manipulation with the NES sound hardware. So while a lot of Capcom's tunes sound pretty good, they never used the sample channel for bass or percussion or used any of the other neat tricks companies like Konami, Natsume, and Sunsoft did. Basically, if a Capcom track sounds good, it's because it was well composed and used very careful instrument selection and that's it.
The instrumentation is precisely what turns me off about NES Capcom music, it's true that the songs are very well-composed, and I'll never tell you otherwise, but the instrumentation is just so generic and lazy-sounding, it sounds like "any NES music", it doesn't pack the same punch that Sunsoft music did on the system, not even remotely close...
... so maybe Capcom should have just sampled the NES chip and called it a day. :D
Eww, that would have been rubbish >w>';
Personally, I think it was on the SNES days that Capcom really found their own "sound identity", their SNES games for the most part sound incredible! Other than the first two Final Fight games their SNES soundtracks are all amazing! That's when they had both the composition AND the instrumentation to back it up! So much variety! So much charm! So much punch! You don't get soundtracks like those anymore, Final Fight 3 still has one of my favourite soundtracks in gaming!
If you think otherwise, eh, what can I do? You do you, I'm just telling you what I think =w=';
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: ccovell on October 29, 2017, 02:09:40 PM
I disagree. Early (hell, even in 1993-94) Capcom SNES games had horrible instrumentation. I thought so even in 1991 when I rented a SNES and Final Fight.
Capcom on the NES at least made good use of the different pulsewidths for different instruments, 1- or 2-channel echo, looped noise for percussion; none of this is to sniff at.
Play the password entry tune in Code Name: Viper and tell me it's not a jazzy, at least decent, reconstruction of a 4-piece jazz band, with a great muted trumpet facsimile considering the NES hardware.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 29, 2017, 02:46:03 PM
Eh, you're free to disagree, but I did mention Final Fight 1 and 2 as exceptions... That said though, as much as I love Capcom's SNES sound, they also generally don't have my favourite SNES audio, once again beaten by the likes of Natsume, Hudson and Konami, to name a few... Okay, Enix, Square, Taito, Rare and Nintendo too, I just couldn't not mention them... I'd still say Final Fight 3 has one of my favourite soundtracks in gaming though! Probably my favourite from them...
Also, I'd never heard of Code Name Viper until now, looked up its Password music and well... I can't exactly say it pleases my ears very much >w>'; Sorry... Maybe the rest of the soundtrack could surprise me though, who knows?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 29, 2017, 04:45:42 PM
but the instrumentation is just so generic and lazy-sounding, it sounds like "any NES music", it doesn't pack the same punch that Sunsoft music did on the system, not even remotely close...
I'm sorry, you're wrong and need to tell your ears to try harder.
I think the problem is you are enamored by samples and weird effects, which is what Sunsoft specialized in pretty hardcore on the NES with Gremlins and such, so you've fooled yourself into thinking that anything else is inferior. This is why you are obsessed with the SNES. It's a bunch of samples gone wild.
To say Capcom NES sounds generic and lazy and like "any NES music" is just kind of clueless.
They had a very distinct sound on NES. So much so that Codename Viper has leads that I can equate to the ones in MegaMan. Mega Man's percussion is pretty legendary. No other group even comes close with the lazer-toms. At all.
Like Chris pointed out, their echo is pretty fantastic, too.
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Eww, that would have been rubbish >w>';
Yeah man the only way that could be worse is if they sampled shitty orchestra sounds from a toy keyboard. It's a good thing they didn't do something that sounded like that...
oh wait.
I would legit rather listen to the NES one that isn't even that great over shit-tier muffled/aliased/goony orchestra crap.
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Personally, I think it was on the SNES days that Capcom really found their own "sound identity", their SNES games for the most part sound incredible! Other than the first two Final Fight games their SNES soundtracks are all amazing!
Final Fight 2's OST isn't bad... it has some fantastic cockrock and swing music that fits the mood perfectly.
and incase you didn't notice in this song, it has some of the same sounds from Street Fighter 2 and Mega Man X.... so now you're just contradicting yourself.
Capcom's sound identity basically comes from that synthbass, and chorus'y lead guitar sample they used. If you don't know a song, hear that bass, and guess Capcom, you are probably going to be right.
Exceptions being like.... Demon's Crest, which has a pretty forgettable soundtrack that at least sound's nice while playing it.
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That's when they had both the composition AND the instrumentation to back it up! So much variety! So much charm! So much punch!
It's a bunch of samples of rock instruments from digital pianos. Calm down, lol.
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You don't get soundtracks like those anymore,
Yeah, because now you get real rock bands instead of shitty sampled attempts at them. ayyyyyy
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Final Fight 3 still has one of my favourite soundtracks in gaming!
lol. "one of my favourite X in gaming" is your catchphrase. I think you have used it so much here that I'm not sure if you know what favorite actually means.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 29, 2017, 07:50:00 PM
I'm sorry, you're wrong and need to tell your ears to try harder.
I can't be wrong about having an opinion. The only "wrong" thing is dismissing someone else's opinion as "wrong" because it's different from yours...
Yes, I'm enamoured by lo-fi samples, and there's nothing wrong with that, I'll take lo-fi rock/orchestral instrument samples over real rock or "NES chipwank" any day, and that's my honest-to-goodness opinion that you can't simply say "you're wrong" and hope to change my mind...
Also, neither Final Fight 1 nor 2 have bad soundtracks, I never said that, I said they were the exception to the whole "Capcom had good instruments on the SNES" thing, yes, I know they've reused some instruments from other games, pretty much all devs do that sometimes, but the way they were used in other games like Street Fighter and Mega Man X just pleased my ears more than they do in Final Fight 1 and 2...
And the thing about Final Fight 3's soundtrack is that it's just SO layered and has SO much stuff going on at once, they basically have each instrument playing its own melody at once, and it all ends up somehow fitting so neatly together like clockwork! That soundtrack is not only GENIUSly composed, it's also got some of the best instrumentation they've used on the system! (Which to me means "ever" because to my ears nothing sounds better than the SNES ;3)
You disagree? Fine! Have your opinion, unlike you I'll not give you s*** for it, you can like and dislike whatever you want...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 29, 2017, 08:19:25 PM
The only "wrong" thing is dismissing someone else's opinion as "wrong" because it's different from yours...
This, going back to the article I just posted. When you say something is lazy and maintain that stance after someone explains clearly unlazy technical prowess....especially using the patented "well you're free to disagree" or "that's just your opinion" shit, you kinda lean into wrongland. It's such a dumbassed copout.
even when you're not doing that, your opinions may not be wrong, but they can still f*cking suck.
and not because I may disagree with them. It's because you put them out there with little substance. Name dropping every popular company followed by AND I LIKE COMPANY X BECAUSE BY GOLLY YEP THEY SURE ARE THE GOODEST without any other real example of anything is useless.
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Yes, I'm enamoured by lo-fi samples, and there's nothing wrong with that, I'll take lo-fi rock/orchestral instrument samples over real rock or "NES chipwank" any day, and that's my honest-to-goodness opinion that you can't simply say "you're wrong" and hope to change my mind...
I don't simply say "you're wrong". I at least provide examples/reasons/explanations, lol. I don't really care if you like listening to shitty sample-rock instead of actual instruments. More power to you. I'd rather go see Iron Maiden instead of listening to a bunch of SNES covers of Iron Maiden.
Quote from: Michirin
Also, neither Final Fight 1 nor 2 have bad soundtracks, I never said that,
Quote from: Michirin
Other than the first two Final Fight games their SNES soundtracks are all amazing!
:roll: Nice one, dummy.
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You disagree? Fine! Have your opinion, unlike you I'll not give you s*** for it, you can like and dislike whatever you want...
You can keep being a crybaby about the fact that I made fun of your opinion to the point where you gripe about it on a high horse like 3 times in one post. ...
It doesn't change the fact that you can't articulate much outside of "omg its the beststestest ever because teeheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
try using examples and reasons besides adverb laden hyperventilating about your most favoritist thing of all time ever ever.
and stop bleeping out your f*cking swear words. Are you 12? We know what the f*ck's supposed to go there when you put S***. Are you trying to get the "no swear words" scout badge or some shit?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 29, 2017, 09:32:11 PM
I don't think I should have to explain why I have an opinion in order to have and express it, but since you demand it... Other than having occasional detuned reverb and triangle toms, which a lot of other non-Capcom games also do on the NES, what does NES Capcom music do to stand-out? It's really well-composed, sure, but it does nothing else, their instruments are just straight pulses, they don't really do any interesting effects, no vibrato/tremolo, no changing the duty-cycle or octave mid-instrument, no samples, barely any volume manipulation, no splitting percussion duties between the noise and triangle or pulse channels (other than the aforementioned Toms, which don't even have noise backup, and I personally think are a little too high-pitched) as spenoza said:
Capcom always focused solely on composition and did very little custom programming and manipulation with the NES sound hardware.
They basically rely entirely on composition to make their music interesting, and the compositions are often good! But the instrumentation isn't at all interesting to me... Is it lazy? Perhaps that was a little harsh, but I still think that most of the best-sounding NES games aren't from Capcom, and that's because they took better advantage of what the system can do... They can have put god-only-knows how much effort into making their instruments sound the way they do, but what came out of it still doesn't match up to what some other NES games managed to pull off...
And it's not like you need samples to make NES music sound good (although that helps a lot) just listen to what Tim Follin did, and I'm not talking about the arps, I'm talking about how he managed to make really great-sounding percussion by splitting its duty between the Noise and the Triangle, and he also often backed the triangle up with a pulse in order to give it even more punch and bass!
Need examples? Sure! First off, some Sample-tastic Sunsoft Tunes: ^You can't get much better than this on the NES! (Without using extra-soundchips at least)
But you can get close: And that's just the tip of the iceberg...
Also, neither Final Fight 1 nor 2 have bad soundtracks, I never said that,
Quote from: Michirin
Other than the first two Final Fight games their SNES soundtracks are all amazing!
:roll: Nice one, dummy.
Tell me, where is there an instance of me clearly stating: "Final Fight 1 and 2 have bad soundtracks" or something like that? Barring them from "amazing" and saying "They're bad" is not the same thing, dummy... They serve their in-game purpose well, but unlike FF3, MMX, MM7, SF2 and Demon's Crest, among others, they're not something I'd go out of my way to listen to outside of the game...
Also, "Yes, your opinion can be wrong, because this article by a person with an opinion said so" You wanna discuss music taste? Everything is subjective, but of all the subjective things nothing is more so than music taste, you can ask somebody "Why do you like Pop music?" they may not be able to pin-point why, but just telling them that it's s*** and showing them some metal bollocks and telling them: "You should be listening to this! THIS is real good music, the music you like sucks because blahblahblah, and this music is good because blahblahblah" that's not gonna change their mind, that's only gonna make them want to dislike whatever you're showing them, and make them like the music they already like even more, even though you still think it's s***...
And guess what? They're not "wrong" for liking it, they'll never be, and their opinions don't "suck" because they're different from yours, or from a pre-established consensus, anyone can like whatever they want, and that's their own business, and if they can't explain why, SO WHAT? Why should they have to?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: ClodBuster on October 30, 2017, 12:22:21 AM
I like Capcom's NES music, and dislike most of its SNES music, with only Street Fighter II (doesn't matter if World Warrior, Turbo or Super) being the exception of the rule.
And since 99% of the world population agrees on that, it is accepted as a fact and I don't need any further proof.
This is what this thread tells me.
Regarding Namco games on the PCE, I'm not really sold on any of them. Since I like the original Galaga a lot, I think Galaga '88 is my choice in the poll.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 05:17:49 AM
Tell me, where is there an instance of me clearly stating: "Final Fight 1 and 2 have bad soundtracks" or something like that? Barring them from "amazing" and saying "They're bad" is not the same thing, dummy...
The implications from the way you worded it are pretty clear if we use context clues from the rest of your adverb laden "my favoritist thing ever" posting style. This again, is why I've repeatedly told you to try articulating a point instead of half-assedly saying shit and falling back on "huuuuu, its opinions" whenever it doesn't go well for you.
Usually when anyone says "aside from X, this is great!", it means X wasn't great, and was bad.
When a waiter asks how your dinner is and you go "it's great, except for the potatoes"... it usually results in you having to explain what's wrong with the potatoes, so they can fix it.
You ever see Summer School? Dude's glasses break and he's upset. He could just sit there and go MAN I HATE THEM. Instead, the teacher tells him to write a well articulated letter about wtf is up.
He gets a bunch of free stuff. All because he bothered to explain something. It's a good life skill.
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Also, "Yes, your opinion can be wrong, because this article by a person with an opinion said so"
You are extremely intellectually lazy if you just use "opinion" as your defense mechanism for everything that opposes you.
You missed the point of why I posted the article, and the point of the article itself, apparently. I can't fix that. That's up to you to figure out. :dance:
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You wanna discuss music taste? Everything is subjective, but of all the subjective things nothing is more so than music taste, you can ask somebody "Why do you like Pop music?" they may not be able to pin-point why, but just telling them that it's shit and showing them some metal bollocks and telling them: "You should be listening to this! THIS is real good music, the music you like sucks because blahblahblah, and this music is good because blahblahblah" that's not gonna change their mind, that's only gonna make them want to dislike whatever you're showing them, and make them like the music they already like even more, even though you still think it's shit...
Well, that's not really what I've done here, and as I said, you missed the point.
Besides, you ever see those interviews at concerts where the interviewer is like "so why do you like X" , and they interview that burnout dude that's like "cause maaan, I just yeah I like em maaan", or the fangirl that's like "OMG OMG I LOVE THEM BECAUSE OMG YEAH I DO WOOOO" and the rest of the people in the line are staring at them cringing?
That's what you do basically, lol.
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And guess what? They're not "wrong" for liking it, they'll never be, and their opinions don't "suck" because they're different from yours, or from a pre-established consensus, anyone can like whatever they want, and that's their own business, and if they can't explain why, SO WHAT? Why should they have to?
Because this is a discussion. .
It's much more interesting if you provide explanations/reasons for your amped up favorites, so people can talk more. You may find out new crap, or get a new perspective, or something.
You just don't like that you're not able to just spew your chock-full-of-adverb limply backed opinions without someone going "uh can you elaborate, or something?".
It's lazy.
The only thing I said you were wrong about is your doofy criticism of Capcom on NES (and your dopey Final Fight thing).
The rest, you're not wrong, I just disagree really heavily, and provided these crazy things called examples to explain why. It's a great time.
PS: There isn't a swear jar on PCEFX. You look like an idiot when you bleep out swear words.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: MobiusStripTech on October 30, 2017, 08:35:27 AM
Everyone knows that the best Namco soundtracks were Dig Dug and Pac-Man. Why even question it? The samples in those are so epic!
I will be honest and say I don't get hating or "disliking" a game because you don't like the music. Turn the sound off? I love to play Megaman, but if the sound bothered be I could just not listen to it.
Also comparing the sound of an NES to an SNES is kind of silly. You are basically comparing apples to oranges. Sure they are both round and a fruit. So they are the same equivalent right?? The audio and video capabilities from one console to another crossing generations isn't really a great way to make a case for an argument. Honestly a better argument would be why Sega did such a bang up job screwing up the drivers for the same sound chip within a single generation.
Also I like Tacos.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 30, 2017, 09:01:44 AM
OK, first, let's get some perspective, here. We're talking about video game music in a way which is tied up in personal opinions related to enjoyment. I think Michirin is getting tangled up in something that tangles me up from time to time, which is trying to explain preferences. I'll use an example...
I don't like Seinfeld, the TV show. It's legendary and well-regarded, but I don't like it. One thing I don't say is that it's no good or that it sucks. But in trying to figure out why I don't like it, I've tried on a few explanations, stuff like, "the characters are all a$$holes." But in most comedy shows the characters are a$$holes, or at least acting like them, and the Seinfeld a$$hole-ness didn't get really a$$hole-y until a couple years in. I've tried for years to figure out WHY I don't like Seinfeld or Larry David's other comedic TV projects, but I can't tease it out. His characters are unlovable and unrelatable to me. The situations they find themselves in constantly make me uncomfortable and make me want to weasel out of my skin instead of laugh. But I can't explain it, and I've given up trying. At least in this particular case, I just don't like it.
On the other hand, Arkhan, if you're trying to get more info out of Michirin as to WHY she has the opinions she does, beating her over the head is not going to do it. That's not friendly engagement. That's aggression. Being "right" doesn't excuse it. An opportunity to explore why we like what we like is wasted because now everyone's defensive and ready to punch.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 09:10:31 AM
On the other hand, Arkhan, if you're trying to get more info out of Michirin as to WHY she has the opinions she does, beating her over the head is not going to do it. That's not friendly engagement. That's aggression. Being "right" doesn't excuse it. An opportunity to explore why we like what we like is wasted because now everyone's defensive and ready to punch.
*shrug*, the info came out. I don't really think the first post was so bad, and received a defensive self righteous reply. It's not really out of line with the tone other people use, including michirin.
Besides, If I didn't ask, nobody else sure as f*ck was going to bother. There'd just be people scrolling by going yepyepyep opinions yepbrblrbrlrbyep because this forum has practically devolved into a circle jerk where nothing cool gets talked about anymore most of the time.
I find the whole falling back on "oh it's opinions" to justify a stance thing to be incredibly lazy if you can't even be f*cked to explain anything about your opinion.
At that point it's like you just like hearing yourself blabber about your surface level likes/dislikes, and don't want to go any further.
There's basically no point in talking if it's going to be "Everyones entitled to an opinion, thats your opinion, lets agree to disagree, etc." with some crap in between from people about what they like.
and, if you don't want to argue/debate something beyond stating your weakly backed opinions and dismissals of people who are at least adding substance to their statements, just ignore my post and go back to doing whatever it is you were doing before I spoke up.
Replying (especially with a "well at least *I* won't be doing that!" tone) implies you want to dance.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 30, 2017, 09:20:42 AM
Also, I have an opinion. While I like Capcom's compositions, I really don't like their instrument sets on the SNES. I hate that electric guitar from the X series and Final Fight (that tons of folks just love to death). Done in FM synth in the arcade with some nice accompanying sampling, stuff like Final Fight, UN Squadron, and Street Fighter 2 sounds really good. On the SNES is sounds shrill, whiny, and cheap to me. Well, except Street Fighter 2. I think that SNES rendition was pretty good. And oddly, I like the UN Squadron SNES soundtrack despite the poor instrument selection. But in most cases, I'd just rather not listen to a Capcom SNES soundtrack. I suspect that they're using kind of a generic sample bank, but I could be wrong. Mostly I just don't like the sound of it. But the composition quality is fine.
As for the NES, though, seriously, give this episode a listen. Capcom's early sound engines were pretty plain, and Mega Man even appears to have some errors or mistakes in the audio department. But their composition quality carried them through their early sound engines, and by the end of their NES development days their audio engine was decently capable.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
I appreciate the attempt at guitar in MMX, but it kind of sucks.
Also, that synthbass seems to be slightly out of tune and doofy. I once grabbed a sound font and tried using it only to find it's pitch seemed off compared to anything else I put with it. Even when using only the sounds from the soundfont.
Fortunately, it's a really stupidly easy sound to recreate with basically any analog synth that isn't a piece of shit.
I think without that bass sound, the street fighter soundtrack wouldn't have been as good as it was.
You end up with this:
Instead of:
Seriously, how the f*ck did that even happen lol.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 30, 2017, 09:34:25 AM
Besides, If I didn't ask, nobody else sure as f*ck was going to bother. There'd just be people scrolling by going yepyepyep opinions yepbrblrbrlrbyep because this forum has practically devolved into a circle jerk where nothing cool gets talked about anymore most of the time.
I agree with your frustration on this point. I get it. But getting up in people's faces to force them out backfires as often as it works. I guess I'm just not sure it actually furthers the discussion any more than it just starts a fight.
You've met me, you know how I am. I'm not just trying to piss in your Cheerios. I think you're smart and interesting and fun to talk to. And sometimes a jerk on the internet. It happens.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 30, 2017, 09:39:59 AM
Oh, uhhhh... Namco. I brought this up on another forum recently. How the f*ck did Namco release HuCard titles all the way up to mid-1992 and not do a single CD game? What the Farnsworth, Namco? Seriously. I kinda wonder why they were so disinterested in the format. I notice they didn't have massive output on the SNES. Probably still stinging from losing preferred partner status from the NES days.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 09:41:12 AM
I'm a jerk in person too, depending on the situation, lol.
like I said, seemed like an OK post. Got met with self righteous fallbackoneveryonehasanopinionleavemealone reply, hit the "f*ckyeahaaaa" button.
It happens.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: spenoza on October 30, 2017, 09:50:47 AM
Michirin, I also like you, too. I don't always agree with your musical sensibilities, but you've inspired Elmer to do Huzak and he's ALMOST(?) done with it.
In fact, I like most of the folks on here, despite disagreeing with almost everyone.
Also, Namco, WTF?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
f*ck that. hate everyoneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
JOIN THE DARKSIDEEEEEEEEEE
we have MSX and cake.
lol
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: turboswimbz on October 30, 2017, 09:57:56 AM
Michirin, I also like you, too. I don't always agree with your musical sensibilities, but you've inspired Elmer to do Huzak and he's ALMOST(?) done with it.
In fact, I like most of the folks on here, despite disagreeing with almost everyone.
Also, Namco, WTF?
I never disagree with you. :)
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 09:59:55 AM
Michirin, I also like you, too. I don't always agree with your musical sensibilities, but you've inspired Elmer to do Huzak and he's ALMOST(?) done with it.
In fact, I like most of the folks on here, despite disagreeing with almost everyone.
Also, Namco, WTF?
I never disagree with you. :)
HE SAID, WHILE DISAGREEING WITH HIM.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: blueraven on October 30, 2017, 10:00:49 AM
I've only played like 4 of the games on this list. so voting on them would be kind of ridiculous. If you send me the Hucards I will play them.
To sum up this thread: I LIKE CATS YOU LIKE DOGS TIM FOLLINFOLLINFOLLIN OPINIONS
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Necromancer on October 30, 2017, 10:02:21 AM
MSX is for short bus f*cktards.
To back up my opinion, I offer Ark as proof. :twisted:
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: blueraven on October 30, 2017, 10:04:20 AM
I don't have an MSX, but I heard the MSX2 is pretty cool. And people still make games for it right?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 10:35:56 AM
On the other hand, Arkhan, if you're trying to get more info out of Michirin as to WHY she has the opinions she does, beating her over the head is not going to do it. That's not friendly engagement. That's aggression. Being "right" doesn't excuse it. An opportunity to explore why we like what we like is wasted because now everyone's defensive and ready to punch.
*shrug*, the info came out. I don't really think the first post was so bad, and received a defensive self righteous reply. It's not really out of line with the tone other people use, including michirin.
Besides, If I didn't ask, nobody else sure as f*ck was going to bother. There'd just be people scrolling by going yepyepyep opinions yepbrblrbrlrbyep because this forum has practically devolved into a circle jerk where nothing cool gets talked about anymore most of the time.
The problem is that you pretty much always come across as a jerk, at least when answering to me...
It's harder to pin-point why I don't like something than it is to say why I like something, and saying "I like so and so more" still makes sense, I don't need your agreement, your approval, or even your understanding, all I want is to express my opinion without being harassed for it... And I DO say why I like the things that I do, and it's not just the "adverb-laden praise" you take it as, did I not say that I like Final Fight 3's music because I like its instrumentation, because it's very layered, because pretty much every instrument plays its own melody and it somehow fits in together like clockwork, because there's a lot of variety in the sound and because it's geniusly composed? Is that not explaining why I like it? Same with the games from the other companies I've mentioned, I like Sunsoft's music not only because it's well-composed, but because it really takes advantage of the NES's sound hardware without having to use extra soundchips in the cartridge, and I like several other NES soundtracks because of their more nuanced instrumentation than whatever Capcom did on the NES...
I'll give Capcom this much though, it's not their fault that I've grown a distaste for their NES music style, it's just that said style is SO overused and overexposed that I'm sick of hearing it, everyone and their moms wants to make music like they did... I guess that just goes to show how popular they are...
Also, mentioning the names of a few companies is easier than name-dropping god-only-knows how many games they've put out on the system in question, and being a retro-gaming-connoisseur you should have an idea of what I'm talking about when I name-drop said companies...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nodtveidt on October 30, 2017, 03:58:27 PM
Final Lap Twin because a racing RPG is a hella crossover, Splatterhouse because f*ck YEAH HELL MASK AND 2x4 CARNAGE, and Wonder Momo because panties.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 04:12:24 PM
Sidenote: *vintage. Retro is the wrong word to use. We need to collectively fix that trend of overusing that word incorrectly. Retro is imitation. This shit isn't an imitation of itself.
Anyway, you're reading too far into it. My tone is generally always kind of blunt/abrasive. Don't take it personally, lol.
I agree Capcom's musical style is overdone. It's like all the other f*ckin arp laden bullshit people crank out in gameboy trackers and go OMFG CHIPTUNES. Everyone steals the Capcom laser toms and megaman leads and cranks out bullshit.
It's all derivative-y and annoying. Most of it is just background noise that you can't remember after you hear it, too. I've gone to chipmusic concerts where it's just the sounds of robots f*cking, with flashing lights. Waste of time/money. At least they had nachos.
When you almost give examples, that's cool. When you say "I like the instrumentation", etc. it helps to give actual examples. Namedropping companies and saying "I like the thing" just means everyone else has to fill in the gaps, and may not fill them in as you thought. If you want to get your points/tastes across, it's your job to articulate them.
You spend more time defending your lack of reasoning after I point it out than you do simply fleshing a thought out.
Some of it, I think, is that you are bad at pinpointing things. It's like if you ask someone their favorite candybar, and they name every goddamn candybar in the store, lol.
Think about it more. I don't know. You could probably narrow down your taste to a pretty concise explanation instead of just throwing blanket company namedrops out there to solve it.
Any company has their ups and downs, too.
If you just say I like Capcom's SNES music, we can't get a good handle on what you like. Demon's Crest sounds nothing like Street Fighter 2 sounds nothing like MegaMan X sounds nothing like Knights of the Round.
and Super Ghouls and Ghosts just sounds like a toy piano in a store on demonstration mode.
Also, I sometimes wonder if you're actually serious when you say that you'd rather listen to chipstuff over real stuff or however it was you worded it.
like, if you were presented with listening to Bayou Billy's soundtrack.... wouldn't you rather have this:
instead of the OG tune?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 30, 2017, 04:33:22 PM
I guess I should me more specific more often? Here's the thing though, my taste is really broad and eclectic, and it's hard to be specific when you like so many things that are so different from one another... Here's an example:
If you just say I like Capcom's SNES music, we can't get a good handle on what you like. Demon's Crest sounds nothing like Street Fighter 2 sounds nothing like MegaMan X sounds nothing like Knights of the Round.
and Super Ghouls and Ghosts just sounds like a toy piano in a store on demonstration mode.
Yeah, they sound nothing alike, but I like all of them... Even if they "sound like a Toy Piano", but to me, that's only part of the charm!
Also, I sometimes wonder if you're actually serious when you say that you'd rather listen to chipstuff over real stuff or however it was you worded it.
I actually do listen to chiptunes on my MP3 player all the time, while going to work, while going to college, while waiting in lines, while drawing, I've got lots of soundtracks from SNES, GBA, PCE, DS, X68000 and PC-98 games, among others, that I've either recorded or downloaded somewhere, and I actually do enjoy it more than "real music"... How can I say it... I guess the less real it sounds, the more it appeals to me, but when it starts to sound primitive then it also starts to lose part of said appeal...
Heck, the majority of the music with lyrics I even listen to are sung by Vocaloids! (And UTAU and CeVIO) Anything else is either Eurobeat (because it's HYPE) or some old anime music...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 04:40:31 PM
Yeah, but if you were to go to a concert, would you seriously rather go to a chiptune recording?
Because that's just a nightclub at that point, lol.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on October 30, 2017, 04:47:32 PM
Yeah, but if you were to go to a concert, would you seriously rather go to a chiptune recording?
Because that's just a nightclub at that point, lol.
I'd probably only go if it was either an Eurobeat one or a Vocaloid one... I mean, I've never gone to a concert, but given your aforementioned experience with chiptune concerts, that sounds like it just wouldn't be worth it...
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 05:10:01 PM
Chiptune concerts kind of suck.
like, I even went and saw Anamanaguchi.
It's them playing along to an NES plugged into the sound system... and they didn't interact with the crowd whatsoever.
It was garbage. Just a bunch of hipster prevapefam college kids flailing around acting stupid.
The best part was the one opener band had gameboys and he was trying to headbang while using it, and accidentally turned it off and ruined everything.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 05:14:03 PM
These are real chiptune concerts.
This is the real shit. Not just them blasting the arcade tune over the loud speakers, lol
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 30, 2017, 05:19:25 PM
Shit heres the full thing. Hell yeha.aaaaagrregadgdghhgh
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: ClodBuster on October 31, 2017, 07:33:25 PM
Question: Would Yellow Magic Orchestra qualify as chiptunes?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on October 31, 2017, 07:40:46 PM
Question: Would Yellow Magic Orchestra qualify as chiptunes?
teehee
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on November 01, 2017, 06:14:19 AM
-Mega Man X's soundtrack is one of the few that uses those horrible guitar samples and is not completely unlistenable. However, Capcom completely shit the bed in MMX 2 and 3, which has some of the most shrill sounds they've ever put out.
-Why does Sunsoft get so much NES music love? Their stuff sounds great, for sure, but their compositions are generally boring (besides Blaster Master). Journey To Silius is one of the worst offenders of just a flat, repetitive soundtrack that never quite achieves climax in its compositions. Maybe I'm missing something...
-The best soundtrack among the ones Michirin quoted is Silver Surfer. Too bad it is sooo short. I wonder if its seemingly high fidelity contributed to keeping it short, due to space constraints?
-Turbo/PCE Dragon Spirit's soundtrack is better than any soundtrack in the SNES. This is not opinion, it's fact, and if you disagree, you are wrong.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on November 01, 2017, 06:31:02 AM
Sunsoft uses a lot of samples and stuff that distract from the fact that some of the songs are actually boring.
I liked Batman level 1's music... but the rest of the soundtrack, I can't really remember even though I spent hours playing that game... I can recall the second level's music too, but it was garbage and annoying, and a total buzz kill after how good stage 1's tune is.
Blaster Master is definitely one of the best Sunsoft soundtracks, if not the best one.
Festers Quest had some good stuff too, packaged in a frustrating game, but still good. The Addam's Family theme from it was done so well. It's amazing to me that I used to sit and play that game for hours and actually beat it. Playing it now, I'm like "holy shit this game is a douche"
Freedom Force is an often never spoken about Sunsoft game with no frills NES heavy metal music. The tunes in that game are great. There's some pretty wicked percussion in there.
Stage 5's music is straight up 1980s thrash metal.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: nopepper on November 01, 2017, 07:10:04 AM
Freedom Force is an often never spoken about Sunsoft game with no frills NES heavy metal music. The tunes in that game are great. There's some pretty wicked percussion in there.
Stage 5's music is straight up 1980s thrash metal.
That sounds pretty cool, but will need a zapper to play that game. Definitely one I have not tried before.
The only trash metal NES soundtrack I can recall is Kabuki Quantum Fighter, which has some pretty good tunes, but I always felt some of the instruments used (especially percussive) were too bubbly to fit the theme.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: ccovell on November 01, 2017, 10:42:02 AM
I can recall the second level's music too, but it was garbage and annoying, and a total buzz kill after how good stage 1's tune is.
You're wrong. :) The 2nd stage's tune is great too, for the "intricate" feeling it provides.
Anyway, if you don't like buzzkills, go play the Famicom version of the game to get that tune out of the way first. Go look it up. No, I won't provide a YouTube link. :D
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on November 01, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
You're wrong. :) The 2nd stage's tune is great too, for the "intricate" feeling it provides.
The problem I have with that song is the beginning little bit that repeats a few times. That DRR DR DRRRRRR part. I don't know why, but I can't stand it. I think it's because the song is *trying* to sound like a metal tune, but that instrument doesn't work right for the guitar riff it was trying to emulate. It's not gritty enough.
Quote
Go look it up. No, I won't provide a YouTube link. :D
well yeah, it's easy to look up something if I don't have to fumble through a picross game to find it... lol
Why did they switch the order, anyways.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: ccovell on November 01, 2017, 12:52:49 PM
Erm, it comes before any such requisite fumbling. It's in fact the very definition of a splash screen. :/
Oh, whoops, I didn't realize it's **only** in the demo, lol. The one on my machine and the one I regrabbed from the top of TML page isn't the demo. Nailed it.
Why'd you take it out of the not-demo?
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: ccovell on November 01, 2017, 02:22:14 PM
Yeah, why did I? :-k
It's as relevant in 2017 as it was in 1989, in 2001, and in 2006.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on November 01, 2017, 02:27:33 PM
I mean, it's not like you can't add it back in now.
I don't think it ever stops being relevant.
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on November 01, 2017, 04:21:22 PM
-The best soundtrack among the ones Michirin quoted is Silver Surfer. Too bad it is sooo short. I wonder if its seemingly high fidelity contributed to keeping it short, due to space constraints?
I don't think it's short because it's too big, it uses no samples what-so-ever, everything you hear in it is just the regular old NES sound, just very well used... Granted, its sheer complexity might have swollen the file size, but I don't know about that either...
-Turbo/PCE Dragon Spirit's soundtrack is better than any soundtrack in the SNES. This is not opinion, it's fact, and if you disagree, you are wrong.
Yeah right =w=';
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Arkhan on November 01, 2017, 04:32:00 PM
Silver Surfer's soundtrack is short because the game f*cking sucks, and you don't have to play it all to hear the soundtrack. Just suffer through one or two levels and you're good.
lol
Title: Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?
Post by: Michirin9801 on November 01, 2017, 06:54:03 PM
Well, hello Mr. Jap (http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5961.0)Jac (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=6771). I didn’t recognize with your clothes on.