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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: vestcoat on October 30, 2006, 04:31:00 PM
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So I have a few random questions that didn't seem worth creating separate topics for each one.
here goes:
1) Were Turbo games ever available for rent anywhere? The town I grew up in had about five places that rented video games and none of them ever had even one TG16 game. The one other Turbo gamer in town and I figured this was due to those warnings on the inside of manuals that said "The duplication, copying or renting of this software is strictly prohibited."
2) Were any Turbochips sold in the case with the old orange label that just had a sticky spot on the inside to hold the slip instead of the plastic arm? I received a Time Cruise in a case like this from an ebay seller and the orange label is ripped off so I can't tell what game the case was for. Did Keith Courage come like this or something? I can't remember.
3) How is it that Syd Mead's Terraforming is both a SCD and CD game? I finally got the US version and a 2.1 system card. Playing into the first level for a minute there are no differences that I could detect.
EDIT: Forgot this earlier...
4) Did all Japanese CD games come with white plastic trays? All of my US jewel cases came with black plastic on the inside. All of my SGX games and early Japanese Hucards come with black plastic on the inside. All of my imported CD's, SCD's ACD's and later period Hucards come with white plastic, except for one of my copies of L-Dis and Daisenpu Custom. Are these two replacement cases or exceptions to the rule?
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1) - Yes. I rented TurboGrafx games all the time from local stores. They didn't seem to like renting the CDs, especially at first, though. But we had at least a half a dozen stores that rented HuCards. It was great! I borrowed "The Manhole" once from one of those stores. Glad I didn't pay to rent it. Once the Sega CD was out and those games were rent, a few stores started renting a few Turbo Duo CDs.
2) - All the US HuCards I've seen had the plastic arm (with the exception of the late games that game with just a paper box and a weak plastic tray). I much prefer the arm vs the Japanese sponge. I haven't seen every HuCard game, so I can't answer definitively on this one. Time Cruise wasn't an orange label I don't think. It came much later from what I recall.
3) - Good question. Sherlock Holmes 2 also claims to be such a game, yet there is zero difference. The video is every bit as laggy with a 3.0 card as with the original card. I think they just make the game work with the original "old" card and then they can easily say it is "bi-compatible" because it will work with both. So if a game says it works with both, just assume it was built for the smaller card. That means every CD game made before the Super System Card (except Altered Beast) is a true "Bi-compatible" game.
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1) - Yes. I rented TurboGrafx games all the time from local stores. They didn't seem to like renting the CDs, especially at first, though. But we had at least a half a dozen stores that rented HuCards. It was great! I borrowed "The Manhole" once from one of those stores. Glad I didn't pay to rent it. Once the Sega CD was out and those games were rent, a few stores started renting a few Turbo Duo CDs.
You have no idea how frickin jealous I am right now.
2) - All the US HuCards I've seen had the plastic arm (with the exception of the late games that game with just a paper box and a weak plastic tray). I much prefer the arm vs the Japanese sponge. I haven't seen every HuCard game, so I can't answer definitively on this one. Time Cruise wasn't an orange label I don't think. It came much later from what I recall.
Whoa! Those stupid little sponges I have in two of my PCE cases are supposed to be there??? I don't have very many early PCE Hucards (before the hooks) and the few that I do have I all got used on ebay. Two of them came with sponges, two with little bubble wrap squares (no doubt placed by the sellers to keep the chip from shaking) and the rest with nothing.
Anyway, I know the case wasn't for Time Cruise, but it was definitely from an "orange label game" and it has no plastic arm or any trace of ever having had one; just a little sticky circle in the middle.
3) - Good question. Sherlock Holmes 2 also claims to be such a game, yet there is zero difference. The video is every bit as laggy with a 3.0 card as with the original card. I think they just make the game work with the original "old" card and then they can easily say it is "bi-compatible" because it will work with both. So if a game says it works with both, just assume it was built for the smaller card. That means every CD game made before the Super System Card (except Altered Beast) is a true "Bi-compatible" game.
That's so strange, why weren't these games just labeled at "CD" games then? To increase Duo and SCD Card sales?
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1) Were Turbo games ever available for rent anywhere? The town I grew up in had about five places that rented video games and none of them ever had even one TG16 game. The one other Turbo gamer in town and I figured this was due to those warnings on the inside of manuals that said "The duplication, copying or renting of this software is strictly prohibited."
Yes. I've shared this story before, but there was a video game rental place near where I grew up that rented Turbo games along with SMS games and PC games. They carried pretty much the entire Turbo catalog, including CD games, up until around 92 when they kind of stopped buying new Turbo releases. They even rented out the CD attachments; that was my first exposure to the CD games before I bought my own CD attachment.
2) Were any Turbochips sold in the case with the old orange label that just had a sticky spot on the inside to hold the slip instead of the plastic arm? I received a Time Cruise in a case like this from an ebay seller and the orange label is ripped off so I can't tell what game the case was for. Did Keith Courage come like this or something? I can't remember.
Keith Courage did not have the plastic arm IIRC. I'm almost positive all the other HuCards came with the arm. I can't remember any without it, although I'm not digging thru my collection to verify. :wink:
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I recall getting a Turbo Chip game last month and it didn't have an arm and I was surprised. Let me look through my games to see if I can find it and I'll post it once I do.
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Keith Courage is the only game that I can remember that came with the sticky circle rather than the arm.
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I rented quite a few PC Engine games from Die Hard. They also had US titles. That warning to not rent the game out is all all sorts of movies, and games. Most of them in fact.
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Keith Courage is the only game that I can remember that came with the sticky circle rather than the arm.
Same for me. I don't recall ever seeing any sponges or bubble-wrap things.
There were also a few stores in town here including Blockbuster that rented TG16 games.
OD
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So I have a few random questions that didn't seem worth creating separate topics for each one.
here goes:
1) Were Turbo games ever available for rent anywhere? The town I grew up in had about five places that rented video games and none of them ever had even one TG16 game. The one other Turbo gamer in town and I figured this was due to those warnings on the inside of manuals that said "The duplication, copying or renting of this software is strictly prohibited."
When the video store chain "Superior Video" opened up in my hometown, they rented Turbochip games. They came in a special clear plastic sort of sheet, at least 4 times as big as the game. There was a black (and maybe white?) TG-16 logo printed on part of the sheet thing, about the size of a Turbochip. I think that it may have been printed on the sleeve at corner of the sheet where the game sat inside.
It was there I got to try most of the titles I never got to buy back in the day. After renting Aeroblasters and ninja Spirit, I demanded both as Christ-mas and birthday presents and soon wound up with both. If I hadn't gotten to rent them, I probably wouldn't have wound up owning both back then.
The also had a couple Japanese Megadrive titles mixed in with the Genesis games. monster Lair and Chiki Chiki Boys.
The one real video game sales store in town eventually started renting the old stock from their main electronics store across towm, which had sold TG-16 stuff when it first came out. They also brought in some worn out used Turbo CDs like Shermatlock, even though I was the only kid in town who could play CD games.
They ordered most of their stuff through Chips N Bitz(or whatever), who advertised in game mags back then. I also caught the owner ordering through the Sears cataolgue a few times.
3) How is it that Syd Mead's Terraforming is both a SCD and CD game? I finally got the US version and a 2.1 system card. Playing into the first level for a minute there are no differences that I could detect.
I think that all Turbo CD2/SCD hybrids are just CD2 games that were released after the Super CD format came out. You could slap an Arcade label on Fighting Street and say is ACD/SCD/CD2 tri-compatible.
I think most hybrid/multi-format CDs for PC Engine are the same, even though lots of people swear they can tell the difference.
EDIT: Forgot this earlier...
4) Did all Japanese CD games come with white plastic trays? All of my US jewel cases came with black plastic on the inside. All of my SGX games and early Japanese Hucards come with black plastic on the inside. All of my imported CD's, SCD's ACD's and later period Hucards come with white plastic, except for one of my copies of L-Dis and Daisenpu Custom. Are these two replacement cases or exceptions to the rule?
I'm pretty sure that at least one PCE CD game came with a non-white case, but I can't remember which one.[/quote]
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why weren't these games just labeled at "CD" games then? To increase Duo and SCD Card sales?
Precisely.
About Japanese CD games, I've seen a couple of jewel cases (Himitsu no Hanazono for example).
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You folks should indicate where (geographically) the stores were located that rented games. Also, if it was a chain or an isolated mom-n-pop! :)
In northern Jersey, I knew of no place that rented TG16 stuff, but nearly every other system (non-import) was available for rental. My favorite store, Curry's Video, had tons of SMS, Genny, and Sega-CD games. I think the owner really liked these systems and he supported them faithfully.
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One of the places that I mentioned which rented Turbo games also rented Mega Drive and Super Famicom games. They didn't rent PC Engine games since NEC threw a hissy fit and changed the pinout of the US console.
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The Die Hard I rented games from (and bought a few as well) was in Waterford Michigan. Before that it was...someplace about 15 minutes away from there, I can't quite remember. They also rented SFC, MD, and probably 3D0 as well as all the stuff that was for sale in the US at the time like Sega CD, Playstation, Saturn, etc.
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I think that all Turbo CD2/SCD hybrids are just CD2 games that were released after the Super CD format came out. You could slap an Arcade label on Fighting Street and say is ACD/SCD/CD2 tri-compatible.
I think most hybrid/multi-format CDs for PC Engine are the same, even though lots of people swear they can tell the difference.
Splash Lake and Buster Bros. came out fairly late in the US as classic CD-Rom2 games (of course, SL and BB are such simple games I don't think you could convince anyone that they are "Super CD's;" unlike, say, Terraforming.
This raises an interesting question: were there any games slated to be standard CD releases that became "SCDs" just because they disabled the backward compatibility with a wrong system card message?
Could Shadow of the Beast fit on a standard CD?
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Of course Shadow of the Beast could fit on a standard CD. Even 3DO games with all of their glorious power and minutes of fun could fit on a standard CD. All Saturn and PS1 games fit on a standard CD.
But as for the RAM used, no. Shadow of the Beast could not fit into 64k segments. Well it could, but it would suck ass.
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I rented Turbo games from a place called Floppy Joe's in College Station, Texas. I don't know if they were a chain or a mom-n-pop. Their main deal seemed to be "renting" PC software (apps and games). Not sure how they got away with that, so I'm leaning towards mom-n-pop versus a chain, since I think a chain of stores "renting" PC software would have attracted the attention of a few software publishers.
They did have an outstanding selection of video games for rent though. When no one else would touch Sega Master System or Turbo games, this place carried them.
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The first time I played the TurboGrafx-16 for myself was when I rented it from a video store (re: movies) along with a few games. I was really disappointed in the system because I couldn't get composite OR stereo audio out of it, which I thought was phuggin' retarded. Still do. I enjoyed the games, but my first impression was not a good one since I was limited to mono RF. I never bought the system because I would have to spend a bunch more money to get acceptable visual and audio from the thing and to play with more than one player, and it cost the same as the Genesis if I recall. God damn that thing was one of the most horribly marketed systems ever. They could not have done it any worse.
But when I graduated high school, I got a Turbo and a CD-ROM, both brand new as a graduation present. I was happy about that, for sure!
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So that's why yer such a sour-puss! :lol:
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The first time I played the TurboGrafx-16 for myself was when I rented it from a video store (re: movies) along with a few games. I was really disappointed in the system because I couldn't get composite OR stereo audio out of it, which I thought was phuggin' retarded. Still do. I enjoyed the games, but my first impression was not a good one since I was limited to mono RF.
Um...this is...this can't be true. You mean you were a nit-picking cantankerous old otaku even back then? What a trend setter!
Composite out was pretty rare on game machines back then. You'd have to be a pretty hateful/petty person to dismiss an entire game machine just because of that one thing. It would be different if you didn't like it because the first game you played was Keith Courage.
BTW, is the RF actually limited to mono? Its certainly possible to transmit stereo via RF.
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Composite out being pretty rare on game machines back then? Let's see:
NES - Came with built in composite A/V out
SMS - Came with built in composite A/V out
Genesis - Came with built in composite A/V out
Rare indeed. All of these systems I had a great deal of experience with before touching the Turbo. And yes, all systems RF is limited to mono. To do stereo over RF you would need a license from MTS.
You're right. I was setting me standards way too high. I had absolutely no right whatsoever in being disappointed with the system. Only nit-picking cantankerous old dudes would dare not like everything about the Turbo without exception. I deserve AIDS.
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Yeah I agree it was bullshit that you had to buy that Turbo Booster to get AV output, it wasn't a big deal for me at first but later on when my family got a decent TV it was shitty that I still had to use an RF switch with my turbo since you couldn't find those stupid Turbo Boosters anywhere locally anymore. It wasn't until I managed to get a Turbo CD that I could enjoy a good picture and stereo sound.
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You're right. I was setting me standards way too high. I had absolutely no right whatsoever in being disappointed with the system. Only nit-picking cantankerous old dudes would dare not like everything about the Turbo without exception. I deserve AIDS.
That's harsh.
Maybe a small wart or two would suffice.
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I already have a small, soft wart. Maybe a stubborn zit?
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I already have a small, soft wart. Maybe a stubborn zit?
Joe wasn't serious about hatin' the TG-16 because of the RF-out standard. It was simply a continuation of his preoccupation with composite video from a discussion we were having in an older thread. As I said then, Joe was one lucky bastard to be nit-picking about composite-output when most folks at the time didn't even have a TV with composite-input! Sure, I eventually harnessed NES' comp-out with my family's fancy, new VCR.... but the VCR itself was attached to our TV via RF!!!!!!
:)
My friends and I used RF for Genny, NES, SMS, TG-16, Atari 2600, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc. etc.
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I already have a small, soft wart. Maybe a stubborn zit?
Joe wasn't serious about hatin' the TG-16 because of the RF-out standard. It was simply a continuation of his preoccupation with composite video from a discussion we were having in an older thread. As I said then, Joe was one lucky bastard to be nit-picking about composite-output when most folks at the time didn't even have a TV with composite-input! Sure, I eventually harnessed NES' comp-out with my family's fancy, new VCR.... but the VCR itself was attached to our TV via RF!!!!!!
:)
My friends and I used RF for Genny, NES, SMS, TG-16, Atari 2600, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc. etc.
Shit, that's nothing. I remember bringing my brand new SNES home from the store and plugging it into a 14" Black and White, mono TV! I didn't rock stereo sound on any of my systems until I got my Duo in 1997.
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Even when I had a black and white TV with RF only, I used the composite hook-up through my VCR mainly so I could route the audio to a stereo. What's funny about black and white is it really seems pretty clear since there isn't any dot-crawl/color bleed and all that. And you get used to it after a few minutes. When I finally got a color TV I had a hell of a time finding one that was good enough. It had to have S-video and I finally found a 20-inch Sony that did. Still have it and it still works great, but I don't use it for gaming anymore. For gaming I have a 20 inch Toshiba (made by Sansui) and all of the game systems except the NES are hooked up via component video. The video is really good, but I worry about the longevity of the TV.
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Composite out being pretty rare on game machines back then? Let's see:
NES - Came with built in composite A/V out
SMS - Came with built in composite A/V out
Genesis - Came with built in composite A/V out
Rare indeed. All of these systems I had a great deal of experience with before touching the Turbo. And yes, all systems RF is limited to mono. To do stereo over RF you would need a license from MTS.
You're right. I was setting me standards way too high. I had absolutely no right whatsoever in being disappointed with the system. Only nit-picking cantankerous old dudes would dare not like everything about the Turbo without exception. I deserve AIDS.
The actual Composite A/V cable for the SMS and Genesis was and is rare though. I never got to try SMS through 'video' until after I got my first Turbo Duo. And for years people had a hard time finding a replacement Duo cable(many still do).
Even by the time I got the Turbo Booster for my TG-16, none of my friends had a TV that accepted composite(we had a nice Sony TV for years).
I also remember RF switches and 'modulators(?)' selling well during the 32-bit generation because of all the people needing to 'downgrade', but I don't remember anyone else trying to upgrade during the 16-bit generation.
Even when I had a black and white TV with RF only, I used the composite hook-up through my VCR mainly so I could route the audio to a stereo. What's funny about black and white is it really seems pretty clear since there isn't any dot-crawl/color bleed and all that. And you get used to it after a few minutes. When I finally got a color TV I had a hell of a time finding one that was good enough. It had to have S-video and I finally found a 20-inch Sony that did. Still have it and it still works great, but I don't use it for gaming anymore. For gaming I have a 20 inch Toshiba (made by Sansui) and all of the game systems except the NES are hooked up via component video. The video is really good, but I worry about the longevity of the TV.
I had like a 12" or 10" b/w TV in my bedroom when I received my first NES. I had so much fun playing SMB on it(I also remember renting and play Dragon Power on it). At the time, I was lucky just to have my own TV at all. Neighborhood kids would come over and we'd all sit around it.
Back then, older color TVs weren't perfect, just as Plasma and LCD TVs aren't perfect now. But man that little b/w TV sure had a nice clear picture. :)
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The actual Composite A/V cable for the SMS and Genesis was and is rare though.
I am a bit skeptical about the cables being rare nowadays, and the composite cables were included with every Sega Master System and Genesis sold... except the SMS 2 which was RF only. So they certainly weren't rare back then. I remember reading back in the day how the most popular "peripheral" for the PS1 and Saturn was the RF adapter.
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The actual Composite A/V cable for the SMS and Genesis was and is rare though.
I am a bit skeptical about the cables being rare nowadays, and the composite cables were included with every Sega Master System and Genesis sold... except the SMS 2 which was RF only. So they certainly weren't rare back then. I remember reading back in the day how the most popular "peripheral" for the PS1 and Saturn was the RF adapter.
I guess Canadians got worked over once again, since we never got the cable packed in and I still have never seen an official one. :(
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My Genesis didn't come with an AV cable, and either did my SMS, so I don't know about, "every" one of them.
Without a doubt %98 of all AV cables packed with an game system released circa 1985 would be stuffed in a drawer never to be used. I think only the SMS systems that came packed with a gun had it.
I worked at a video store where we opened up and prepared for rental many a Genesis, and none of them had AV cables. I used the cable from my C64...but that was mono, so I had to use the headphone jack on the Genesis for stereo sound. The only Genesis I remember coming with an AV cable was the CD-X.
The first system I ever had that came with an AV cable was the SNES.
RF switches are still pretty popular, even for people using XB360s.
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All Genesis 1 AV cables were mono. The headphone jack is the ONLY way to get stereo sound out of the Genesis 1 ever no matter what.
It seems that later Genesis 1's did not include the cable. Also those later units (and even the original units) had a parts order form where you could order the cable. I guess nobody reads the literature that comes with their consoles.
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I don't think any of my model 1 Genesis systems came packed with AVs either... Can't remember if the model 2 did, but I would assume so since I think I started using AVs at that time.
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I bought a Genesis (model 1, Altered Beast pack-in) brand new in 1990, and it did not come with an AV cable.
RF output on the Turbo (or SNES) isn't that bad. Any output I've tried on the Genesis (both model 1 and model 2) has been shitty though. Not sure what the deal is with the Genesis, maybe RGB looks good, but RF and composite video look terrible.
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Yeah I've got poor results with composite and RF on model 1 and 2 Genesis' and CDX. Sadly, I think RF on Genesis might even look better than the composite. I might invest going through some kind of RGB mod in the future, but I prefer not to mod my systems and I don't know what kind of trouble it might cause and if it's really worth it.
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There is no need to mod the Genesis for RGB since it outputs in that format natively on every official incarnation of the console (even the frickin' Nomad). The composite encoder on the Genesis sucks ass. That same encoder is used for both RF and composite. It's not as bad as the Neo Geo, but it is close (though a few revisions of the Neo Geo board actually have decent composite). If you use a 32X, the composite video is greatly improved with all games, Genesis and 32X. Unfortunately it still sucks for SMS games since the 32X must be removed to use the Power Base Converter. Genesis RGB is really good.
You guys may be right about the Genny not including the composite cable. But that doesn't explain how I've always had one and never ordered one from Sega that I can recall.
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There is no need to mod the Genesis for RGB since it outputs in that format natively on every official incarnation of the console (even the frickin' Nomad). The composite encoder on the Genesis sucks ass. That same encoder is used for both RF and composite. It's not as bad as the Neo Geo, but it is close (though a few revisions of the Neo Geo board actually have decent composite). If you use a 32X, the composite video is greatly improved with all games, Genesis and 32X. Unfortunately it still sucks for SMS games since the 32X must be removed to use the Power Base Converter. Genesis RGB is really good.
You guys may be right about the Genny not including the composite cable. But that doesn't explain how I've always had one and never ordered one from Sega that I can recall.
Maybe the early SMS' came with the cable?
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I had the base Genesis 1 system (the model that came with the red Genesis logo on the box and started up with the "Produced by or Under License from Sega Enterprises" screen for every game), and it definitely came with a A/V cable.
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The SMS definitely came with the cable. But after I got the PBC, I sold the SMS (I was awesomely stupid back then) and I sold it with everything it came with, or so I thought.
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- Some places rented the Turbo Grafx. The only place I recall encountering it was Video Nation, in Seabrook, Maryland. There is a post around here of someone who bought a game that had a manual with that store's sticker on it, hhahaha. Originated from me.
Most of the TG-16 there didn't rent much. They had 2 systems with hard palstic cases for rent. I also recall the store had a poster on the wall, that was a combination of words and pictures. I = Eyeball picture, etc. It was an advertisement that basically said rent X amountffo games, rent the system for X Price. And the catch at the bottom was, "It will (Picture of a person with a leaf blower) you away!".
Unique poster.
That store also rented NES, which it did for a while before it carried Turbo Grafx. Later on it carried a few Genesis and Super Nintendo titles. Though, the place focused on "general" videos and porn for the most part.
I never rented games from the store, however when it changed owners, and names, the Turbo Grafx stuff left the shelves!. By the mid 90's, it wasn't moving. It took up space where videos and such could be. I enquired about what happened with them, and was told they were boxed up. Many of the games found a home with me, and some years after that, with others!
About the A/V cables. The family had an NES, that I recall coming with A/V cables (mono). I never used them, as there was a floor console television (wood cabinet!) which was only "cable ready". As mentioned in another post in this thread, those cables got shoved in a drawer, box, many places.
Genesis 2, from what I recall, has a port for A/V, however you have to buy the special cable, it's similar to how the stock Duo A/V cable works. I don't recall it in the box.
Super NES, same deal as above, however it came in the box.
That's about as recent I get game systems, besides the TG/Duo and Sega CD.
Though, by that time (mid 90's) I'm sure A/V became the standard and was packaged with all following game systems (Saturn, Play Station, etc).
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someone mentioned before never having seen an official sega av cable:
http://sega-parts.com/ should have them.
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We had a video store in my hometown that rented Turbo games as well. And when they went out of business I bought up all the stock they had left. Of course it only consisted of about a dozen games, but still. At $3 a pop, it was a great deal.