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NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo => TG-16/TE/TurboDuo Discussion => Topic started by: nat on December 18, 2006, 01:31:55 PM

Title: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on December 18, 2006, 01:31:55 PM
Is it an inherent quality of TurboTaps (not DuoTaps) to be prone to failure? Was the TurboTap a genuine lemon?

Me and some friends sat down last night for a battle game of Bomberman '94. Partway through some of my friends complained their characters were moving without them touching the controller. Then the game started pausing itself automatically. Then we noticed that everybody's character was moving in response to my (player 1) controller (which explained their prior complaints). The TurboTap is less than 2 years old, bought brand-new from TZD. The controllers are of various ages but two of them were brand-new from TZD within the last year. All controllers are in great shape and work fine on their own. We cycled through various other controllers I had on hand to elminate the possibility of a bad controller. Reseating all connections did nothing to help our plight. We ended up having to shut our game off prematurely.

Like I mentioned, this Tap I bought relatively recently from TZD to replace my old Tap which started exhibiting similar symptoms. This was after the Player 3 port stopped working on it. There was no physical damage, just stopped recognizing a controller was hooked up.

Not that it matters, but the Tap is hooked up to the end of one of those long extension cables.

This morning I was still a little disgruntled so I went to TZD to get a new one. Too bad they are F--KING OUT OF STOCK. There goes my last hope for a good TurboTap.

Then I headed over to eBay and scored a used one that is "untested" , "as-is", and "worked the last time I used it". The good news is I only laid down $1.25 plus shipping for it so I'm only out $5 if it's another dud.

I guess my question for folks is: is this a common thing with the TurboTap? Or has my luck just been unbelieveably horrible with these? What is the cause of these issues? Does the 'Tap contain some of those infamously bad late-'80s-run capacitors that leak all to hell after a few years?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: runinruder on December 18, 2006, 03:37:22 PM
I've owned my tap for at least fifteen years and it's still going strong. 
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Odonadon on December 18, 2006, 03:42:45 PM
I've owned several and I've never had a problem with one.

OD
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on December 18, 2006, 03:54:18 PM
So no ideas what might be wrong and why mine keep failing on me?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: esteban on December 18, 2006, 04:09:33 PM
I've used a bunch of Taps over the years and IIRC I did have a problem with one back in the day. Now, I don't recall if we were using an extension cable at the time... but I'd lean towards the affirmative.

Our problem with the Tap, however, was with unresponsive pads and / or slightly damaged connectors. The funny things is... I think I still have the Tap and I think it works now? Don't quote me on that, though, because it is possible that I have a forgotten box of damaged goods sitting somewhere.

Anyway, I reckon I've used the Tap more than the average tg-16 fan and I haven't experienced an obvious problem with them.

Shot in the dark: Is it possible that a broken controller could foul up the entire Tap? Perhaps the hardware gurus could tell us if this is feasible.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Keranu on December 18, 2006, 04:41:21 PM
Shot in the dark: Is it possible that a broken controller could foul up the entire Tap? Perhaps the hardware gurus could tell us if this is feasible.
Could be possible, but with my experience of having one controller that likes to act up, it doesn't effect the other controllers.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on December 18, 2006, 05:13:29 PM

Shot in the dark: Is it possible that a broken controller could foul up the entire Tap? Perhaps the hardware gurus could tell us if this is feasible.

Shouldn't be the issue here. Like I mentioned, I tried all sorts of controllers in every configuration imaginable with the same results.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 18, 2006, 05:33:39 PM
I tried playing a two player game with some guy a few weeks ago, and I was having similar issues.  The tap was hooked to the end of an extension cable.  I suggest trying it without the extension cable.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: vestcoat on December 18, 2006, 05:55:17 PM
Your Tap is fine.  The problem is the extension cord.  I've had the same problem with my  Duo tap plugged into an extension cord.
So don't worry, you don't have to waste your money on more Turbo Taps...now you'll be wasting your money on FIVE extension cords because you have to use them BEFORE they reach the Tap.
*heheheh*

Life sucks, eh?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Keranu on December 18, 2006, 09:43:27 PM
I use an extension cable with my Duo Tap and it works fine.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Black Tiger on December 18, 2006, 10:53:25 PM
Taps start to screw up like that after getting dust inside if them. It happens more with the Turbo's than the PCE/Duo's because of the gigantic holes. After figuring this out, I taped the spare holes of my main Tap with masking tape and never had to clean it out again.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: vestcoat on December 19, 2006, 07:22:00 AM
Taps start to screw up like that after getting dust inside if them. It happens more with the Turbo's than the PCE/Duo's because of the gigantic holes. After figuring this out, I taped the spare holes of my main Tap with masking tape and never had to clean it out again.

I don't know, I had the problem with my Duo Tap.  As soon as I removed the extension cord it worked fine and has ever since with no cleaning.  However, the dirty-tap theory does have some merit because that would explain why the problem got worse for Nat and friends as the night wore on.

I use an extension cable with my Duo Tap and it works fine.

I have a question, was there ever an Official Turbo Duo Extension Cord made or are they all like those grey Mac cables I got from TZD recently?  I have an official, black TurboGrafx extension but I've never tested it to see if it gives me the same problem with a Turbo Tap.  Does TZD still have "real" TG16 cables or are they selling grey Mac cables like the Duo extension?  Maybe some of us are using Mac cables and some of us are using NEC cables.  Maybe the NEC-made cables don't have a problem scrambling signals from a five-player Tap.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Black Tiger on December 19, 2006, 08:42:49 AM
Taps start to screw up like that after getting dust inside if them. It happens more with the Turbo's than the PCE/Duo's because of the gigantic holes. After figuring this out, I taped the spare holes of my main Tap with masking tape and never had to clean it out again.

I don't know, I had the problem with my Duo Tap.  As soon as I removed the extension cord it worked fine and has ever since with no cleaning.  However, the dirty-tap theory does have some merit because that would explain why the problem got worse for Nat and friends as the night wore on.

I use an extension cable with my Duo Tap and it works fine.

I have a question, was there ever an Official Turbo Duo Extension Cord made or are they all like those grey Mac cables I got from TZD recently?  I have an official, black TurboGrafx extension but I've never tested it to see if it gives me the same problem with a Turbo Tap.  Does TZD still have "real" TG16 cables or are they selling grey Mac cables like the Duo extension?  Maybe some of us are using Mac cables and some of us are using NEC cables.  Maybe the NEC-made cables don't have a problem scrambling signals from a five-player Tap.

The dirty Tap problem is real itself, since I fixed mine by cleaning it. Whether or not thats what's wrong with this particular Tap is another issue. The extension cable may be dirty or have some kind of film on it(or just a bent connector).

There are official Duo extension cables, I bought mine new back in the day, but have recently misplaced it. But you're better off with a Mac cable, since the Duo extension cable has those big heavy connectors like the Pads that weigh down the controller port.

Turbo Cables are pretty common(I think). If you can track down a 'Duo Cable' (TG-16 to Duo converter) before a decent Duo extension cable you could just use Turbo products on your Duo.

But the Mac cable I have works best for me(a LOT better than the 'lightgun minigame' wireless pads).
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Joe Redifer on December 19, 2006, 11:27:29 AM
How would dust interfere with the operation of a tap unless it was a significant amount?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: esteban on December 19, 2006, 01:05:34 PM
How would dust interfere with the operation of a tap unless it was a significant amount?
Dude, FEKA dust. No brainer.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on December 19, 2006, 04:37:49 PM
Taps start to screw up like that after getting dust inside if them. It happens more with the Turbo's than the PCE/Duo's because of the gigantic holes. After figuring this out, I taped the spare holes of my main Tap with masking tape and never had to clean it out again.

I don't know, I had the problem with my Duo Tap.  As soon as I removed the extension cord it worked fine and has ever since with no cleaning.  However, the dirty-tap theory does have some merit because that would explain why the problem got worse for Nat and friends as the night wore on.


Really? So.... Are the extension cables defective by design, or is it just an extremely common issue? The extension cable itself is about the same age as the 'Tap, two years old bought new from TZD.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: esteban on December 19, 2006, 06:38:56 PM
Taps start to screw up like that after getting dust inside if them. It happens more with the Turbo's than the PCE/Duo's because of the gigantic holes. After figuring this out, I taped the spare holes of my main Tap with masking tape and never had to clean it out again.

I don't know, I had the problem with my Duo Tap.  As soon as I removed the extension cord it worked fine and has ever since with no cleaning.  However, the dirty-tap theory does have some merit because that would explain why the problem got worse for Nat and friends as the night wore on.


Really? So.... Are the extension cables defective by design, or is it just an extremely common issue? The extension cable itself is about the same age as the 'Tap, two years old bought new from TZD.
Black_Tiger can probably clarify this further, but IIRC, my extension had a "loose-fitting" connection on the female end. As a result, the Tap / Controller would slip out if it was yanked hard. Jesus, there's no way to discuss this without it sounding pornographic.

I've only owned one extension cable, which I bought back when it was first released, so I don't know if this is a common problem. Also, there is a good chance my problem stems from stupidy (i.e. damaging the cable by stepping on it when I was dancing to the tunes in China Warrior).

:)
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: FM-77 on December 20, 2006, 03:14:43 AM
Black_Tiger can probably clarify this further, but IIRC, my extension had a "loose-fitting" connection on the female end. As a result, the Tap / Controller would slip out if it was yanked hard. Jesus, there's no way to discuss this without it sounding pornographic.

Need to quote this in case you decide to edit it out. :lol: This text isn't going anywhere!
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Black Tiger on December 20, 2006, 12:48:32 PM
Black_Tiger can probably clarify this further, but IIRC, my extension had a "loose-fitting" connection on the female end. As a result, the Tap / Controller would slip out if it was yanked hard. Jesus, there's no way to discuss this without it sounding pornographic.

Need to quote this in case you decide to edit it out. :lol: This text isn't going anywhere!

I demand thatv stevek666 make that his new signature immediately.

And yes, I can clarify further.  8)
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: esteban on December 21, 2006, 02:14:26 PM
Black_Tiger can probably clarify this further, but IIRC, my extension had a "loose-fitting" connection on the female end. As a result, the Tap / Controller would slip out if it was yanked hard. Jesus, there's no way to discuss this without it sounding pornographic.

Need to quote this in case you decide to edit it out. :lol: This text isn't going anywhere!

I demand thatv stevek666 make that his new signature immediately.

And yes, I can clarify further.  8)
Oh snap, I guess I really don't have a choice, do I? :)
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Keranu on December 21, 2006, 02:34:21 PM
Hahaha, that looks even funnier when it's set as your sig!  :lol: :dance: ](*,)
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: PhilBiker on April 05, 2007, 06:11:43 AM
I've had experience with three Turbo Taps, two of my own and one a friend's back in the heyday. All three eventually screwed up.  I still have one but I think that the last time I was playing multiplayer bomberman it screwed up.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on April 05, 2007, 04:04:18 PM
So that settles it... The TurboTap is a lemon!
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Keranu on April 05, 2007, 04:09:37 PM
Hmm, I'm sorry but I just don't see the resemblence between a Turbo Tap and a lemon.  :-k

(http://www.gue-tech.org/darkgrue/attic/tg16/turbotap.jpg) (http://www.lemon-law.tv/images/lemon-law-pic.jpg)
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: malducci on April 05, 2007, 05:12:04 PM
That's 'cause you need to peel it first.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Keranu on April 05, 2007, 07:19:47 PM
So wait a minute, let me get this straight... Turbo Taps are organically grown?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Black Tiger on April 08, 2007, 03:01:12 PM
So wait a minute, let me get this straight... Turbo Taps are organically grown?

No, they're biogenically born in the lab of a mad scientist hell bent on world domination.  :twisted:

See turbo_sage's Turbo Madness 16 video to witness the outcome.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: TheMilford on April 03, 2009, 04:10:07 AM
BUMP!

I have a TurboTap I just won in an auction... it seems to work fine with Dungeon Explorer in multi-player mode... BUT I wanna use it with Order of the Griffin just as an extension cord but when I plug it in it disables the opening screen select function.

Two things of note:

I replaced the cord with a TurboPad cord.

It's a little dirty. I still need to try cleaning it out.

Is the TurboTap known to disable some games?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 03, 2009, 04:41:04 AM
Some games might be confused when seeing the Tap as it is not the same as simply seeing a single controller plugged into the unit.  Someone should make a list of games that are affected by this.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: TheMilford on April 03, 2009, 05:26:57 AM
Some games might be confused when seeing the Tap as it is not the same as simply seeing a single controller plugged into the unit.  Someone should make a list of games that are affected by this.

Bummer! So I gotta spring for an Extension cable?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Duo_R on April 03, 2009, 08:35:00 AM
Nat give it a whirl w/o ext cable.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on April 03, 2009, 12:33:41 PM
Haha, this thread is like three years old (check the dates!). We determined using extension cables with the US TurboTap causes them to malfunction for some reason. Has something to do with the pin layout on the tap plug versus the pin layout of the extension cable. My guess is that the extension cord grounds one of the pins the Tap needs for communication, or vice versa.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Duo_R on April 03, 2009, 06:01:48 PM
MILFORD!!!!  ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I thought this was a new thread for some reason....  #-o
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Necromancer on April 03, 2009, 06:45:12 PM
I had no problems with OotG, a DuoTap, and an extension cord.  If a spring cleaning doesn't help, I'd check to be certain that the replacement cord is installed properly (it's not plug 'n' play, so follow nat's guide (http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=2893.msg36307#msg36307)).

Haha, this thread is like three years old (check the dates!). We determined using extension cables with the US TurboTap causes them to malfunction for some reason. Has something to do with the pin layout on the tap plug versus the pin layout of the extension cable. My guess is that the extension cord grounds one of the pins the Tap needs for communication, or vice versa.


.....but Milford's question doesn't involve an extension cord.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Arkhan on April 03, 2009, 06:45:48 PM
We have used a buncha turbo taps with no problem....

One thing we were always cautious about is plugging stuff in post-poweron.  That might cause a problem if you jam stuff in after the system is running.....

Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Duo_R on April 03, 2009, 06:49:19 PM
well for Milford's issue I think that Joe is correct, there are some games that just don't know what to do when Turbotap is plugged in. But really the Turbotap is pretty lame as an extension cord (unless you replaced with something longer). Just spend the $2.00 on a Duo extension cord from monoprice.com.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on April 03, 2009, 08:21:04 PM
Haha, this thread is like three years old (check the dates!). We determined using extension cables with the US TurboTap causes them to malfunction for some reason. Has something to do with the pin layout on the tap plug versus the pin layout of the extension cable. My guess is that the extension cord grounds one of the pins the Tap needs for communication, or vice versa.

.....but Milford's question doesn't involve an extension cord.

Very true, but my response was in reply to Duo_R:

Nat give it a whirl w/o ext cable.

Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Vic Viper on April 03, 2009, 10:58:34 PM
I bought a used turbo tap on ebay.  It had the same exact problem described here, even without using an extension cable.  I returned it and bought a new (unused) one.  The new one works fine, even with an extension cable between it and the turbo.  Thanks for the tip about the dust.  It could come in handy some day.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: TheMilford on April 04, 2009, 06:45:06 AM
...it's not plug 'n' play...

DOH!

I just rewired it and it seems to work great now.

BTW: I have mostly the older style TurboPadfs with the color-codes not covered in Nat's Guide.... But I noticed that my cable had the same color layout as the tap... just reversed so I pulled and flipped and it worked like a charm!

For reference

TAP:
Black
Brown
Gray
Blue
Purple
Green
Yellow
Orange
Red

PAD:
Red
Orange
Yellow
Green
Purple
Blue
Gray
Brown
Black
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Duo_R on April 04, 2009, 07:17:51 AM
i think it would be better to use a pinout diagram vs color coded. I drew one up just need to upload....
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: TheMilford on April 04, 2009, 08:51:23 AM
i think it would be better to use a pinout diagram vs color coded. I drew one up just need to upload....

I think there are a few variations... it would be good to have a chart that shows pin-out-to-pin-out  (bot connector ends) but also include colors for quick reference.

Other than the colors the only surefire way is to use a Multi-meter with a continuity test.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Duo_R on April 04, 2009, 09:04:53 AM
that's how I made the diagram!  :D

Quote
Other than the colors the only surefire way is to use a Multi-meter with a continuity test.

i think it would be better to use a pinout diagram vs color coded. I drew one up just need to upload....

I think there are a few variations... it would be good to have a chart that shows pin-out-to-pin-out  (bot connector ends) but also include colors for quick reference.

Other than the colors the only surefire way is to use a Multi-meter with a continuity test.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: esteban on April 05, 2009, 02:14:41 AM
Thanks for the tip about the dust.  It could come in handy some day.

I assume you are referring to this?

How would dust interfere with the operation of a tap unless it was a significant amount?
Dude, FEKA dust. No brainer.

You're welcome.

Also, I love quoting myself. Please, can someone resurrect some more threads?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: TheMilford on April 05, 2009, 03:44:42 AM
Thanks for the tip about the dust.  It could come in handy some day.

I assume you are referring to this?

How would dust interfere with the operation of a tap unless it was a significant amount?
Dude, FEKA dust. No brainer.

I'm a fan of UTFSF! and posting to older threads as apposed to make a new thread like a little nit-wit. It helps with finding topics and info and declutter's the board.

I'll do my best.

You're welcome.

Also, I love quoting myself. Please, can someone resurrect some more threads?
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Duo_R on April 05, 2009, 08:41:53 AM
just practice using the quote function, the preview button helps. It is hard to tell what you write if you don't.

Quote
I'm a fan of UTFSF! and posting to older threads as apposed to make a new thread like a little nit-wit. It helps with finding topics and info and declutter's the board.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: esteban on April 05, 2009, 09:00:25 AM

I'm a fan of UTFSF! and posting to older threads as apposed to make a new thread like a little nit-wit. It helps with finding topics and info and declutter's the board.


I totally agree about the value of building off of older threads; I actually like it when older threads resurface.

To clarify things: I was really just making fun at myself, since I wanted to quote some more of my older posts.

Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nodtveidt on April 05, 2009, 09:31:57 AM
Adding my late two cents...

I've noticed the screwup with the Tap as well. My wife and I were playing SFII two-player and the controls started going screwy after about 20 minutes of playing. I didn't try another tap though.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: Zeon on April 11, 2009, 10:32:28 AM
In case you guys haven't figured this out by now, the culprit is bad/cold solder joints, or at least in my case it was. I have a tap with the exact same symptoms as the one nat had, erratic behavior and what not. I opened it up and on a hunch I reflowed the solder on the controller ports and the molex connector where the cable plugs into. Now it works like a dream. Of course I gutted it's cord for a pce to tg-16 adapter, but I plan on wiring up a pce connector in it.
Title: Re: The TurboTap: A Lemon?
Post by: nat on April 13, 2009, 11:40:47 AM
Could have been, but it's been more or less proven in the intervening years since this thread was created that putting an extension cord between the Tap and the console will cause big problems.